S/O: Help me to understand what is particularly dangerous about children in cars?

[angela in ohio]

Actually, I would leave my purse on the front seat in plain view if I am 15 feet away.

 

So would I, and I would also leave my child in the same situation if safety was my only concern. But, as I said, I wouldn't leave a child in a situation where I wouldn't elave my purse.

[Nestof3]

Another reason I don't leave my kids in the car unless I can see it is because my aunt came out to her car one day, and found some crazy lady in it who was cutting up the fabric with scissors. Who's to say she wouldn't have started stabbing kids if they were in there? Weird and crazy stuff does happen. The chances are slim, but they do exist.

 

And this crazy lady broke into her car or was it unlocked?

[Old Dominion Heather]

Actually, I would leave my purse on the front seat in plain view if I am 15 feet away.

 

Me, too. In fact, I am well known for leaving it in the car overnight. I do leave my kids in the car, always have. Not overnight, though. ;)

[Pink Fairy]

My Mother always told me, "never leave a child where you wouldn't leave a pile of money sitting on the seat."

 

{shrug}

 

My mom told me the same thing! Only hers was "If you wouldn't leave a million dollars alone in the car, you shouldn't leave a child alone in the car."

 

FWIW, I consider this a parenting issue. You know your kids, you know how mature/immature, reliable/unreliable they are, and you make decisions accordingly.

[Nestof3]

There was a mother in my town whose children were strapped into their car seats. She was outside the car (I don't know how far away). The car started rolling, she tried to stop the car and was run over and killed.

 

I don't leave my kids in the car unattended.

 

Obviously someone didn't have the emergency brake on while on a hill. Dumb Cars don't roll on flat surfaces.

 

Any age limit on this? I guess this also rules out children playing in any streets because you never know when a car would roll backward from someone else's driveway.

[LidiyaDawn]

I don't think those sorts of comparisons are very realistic though - statistically speaking, a purse is MUCH more likely to be stolen than a kid. People looking for a quick buck can be tempted into snatching an unattended, unprotected (locked, etc) purse...there aren't too many people looking for a quick.. addition to their family. :p

 

(I know, someone is gonna bring up abducted kids - again though, most of that is parental abductions.)

 

Unfortunately, they don't take a child to add him or her to a family. I would worry a lot less then. And yes, children are abducted by strangers. It's not as common as parental abductions, but it happens enough to make me take reasonable precautions. As I said, though, my reason for taking them with me is more about their quality of life than safety worries. I just wonder when I see someone leave a baby or young child in the car and go into a store. To me, it's a measure of value. I am careful with my purse. Am I as careful with my child, when the stakes are SO much higher.

 

I figured the :p kinda gave that away as a joke ~ and I know that stranger abductions CAN happen.. but not with anything near the frequency that the media would have us thinking. Everything just gets super-exposure these days.

 

Everyone has to assess the risks and do what they're comfortable with in the end anyway though :)

[DarlaS]

So, I went and did some googling of vehicle safety statistics and for the year 2005, 1335 children died in motor vehicle crashes. These were on the road accidents, not anything related to just putting a single car into gear and rolling. Crashes on roadways with a driver at the wheel.

 

That same year 48 children died of being left unattended in a motor vehicle. 48 was the summer statistic which is the most dangerous time - heat exhuastion/stroke/etc. It was a little less clear about other possible deaths from being left unattended, but the total for non-crashes i.e. no driver, was less than 100.

 

Obviously it is far more dangerous to put your child in a car and drive them down the road. Plain and simple, yet I don't think anyone is going to start calling parents irresponsible for using motor vehicles for transport.

 

Amongst teens, 60% of all deaths are related to teen drivers. The number of teens who die at the helm of a car each year is startling. So, are the same individuals so adamantly opposed to anyone leaving a child in a car for few minutes also going to take the same stance on not licensing new drivers until the age of 20?

 

Faith

 

Driving down the road is no doubt dangerous, but don't the numbers only prove it's MORE dangerous if a child is left unattended for every time a trip is made with kids in the car? I have a suspicion the risk exposure is greatly unequal.

 

I take my kids various places several times a week. I do not leave them unattended in car several times a week. Does anyone?

 

Oh, and I don't think most 16 year olds have any business driving alone. I'd LOVE to hold off on those licenses a bit longer (but not until 20!).

[3lilreds in NC]

However, there was a case here in Oregon about 18 months ago. A mom was standing on the sidewalk talking to her friend while her kids were in the car. She was right next to the car (given on the passenger side) She had the doors unlocked and the engine running (and a lot of people do this) Someone jumped in her car and drove it off with the kids in. They were fine, but that is the reason I always take an extra look when I see kids in a car with mom chatting outside the car. You never know who is around.

 

I was given a ticket for leaving my kids in the car, strapped in, watching a movie for less than 5 minutes. In NC they have to be at least 12, which is considered to be old enough to defend themselves to some degree, I suppose. The police told me that (a) even though my car was in good condition, the A/C could go off at any moment and the kids would be in danger (it was summer) and (2) someone could steal the car with the kids in it. Not to mention all the things the kids could do themselves in the car, I suppose.

[Renee in NC]

I was given a ticket for leaving my kids in the car, strapped in, watching a movie for less than 5 minutes. In NC they have to be at least 12, which is considered to be old enough to defend themselves to some degree, I suppose. The police told me that (a) even though my car was in good condition, the A/C could go off at any moment and the kids would be in danger (it was summer) and (2) someone could steal the car with the kids in it. Not to mention all the things the kids could do themselves in the car, I suppose.

 

That wasn't what the law I read this morning said - it specified 8 (which is also the minimum for leaving a child home alone.) What kind of ticket did you get? I'm curious now! I'll have to do some more digging around.

 

ETA: I just did a search on the NC Legislature site and as recetly as 2009 a bill disallowing children in vehicles alone under the age of 9 was not passed. In that bill, a child under 9 must be supervised by a person 14 or over. I am very interested, then, what you were charged with when ticketed.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Renee in FL

[silliness7]

I was given a ticket for leaving my kids in the car, strapped in, watching a movie for less than 5 minutes. In NC they have to be at least 12, which is considered to be old enough to defend themselves to some degree, I suppose. The police told me that (a) even though my car was in good condition, the A/C could go off at any moment and the kids would be in danger (it was summer) and (2) someone could steal the car with the kids in it. Not to mention all the things the kids could do themselves in the car, I suppose.

 

It's one thing for a parent to worry that their child might be kidnapped if left in the car. However, for a policeman to cite potential kidnapping or carjacking as the reason for your ticket is ridiculous. Isn't that part of their job protecting us from the bad guys? Not ticketing us because they can't handle the "bad guy" population. Isn't that their job? Here, let me give you a ticket because I can't do my job. In some countries the mommas leave their babies unattended outside of restaurants in their strollers with no fear of someone walking off with them.

 

How 'bout we start ticketing police officers because the city is not safe enough for our children? ;)

[KarenNC]

That wasn't what the law I read this morning said - it specified 8 (which is also the minimum for leaving a child home alone.) What kind of ticket did you get? I'm curious now! I'll have to do some more digging around.

 

ETA: I just did a search on the NC Legislature site and as recetly as 2009 a bill disallowing children in vehicles alone under the age of 9 was not passed. In that bill, a child under 9 must be supervised by a person 14 or over. I am very interested, then, what you were charged with when ticketed.

 

I'm interested as well, because I can't come up with anything in the statutes that states 12. I see that Lilireds' kids are now ages 3-10, but I wonder what their ages were at the time of the ticket and whether that might have been a factor, as well as the number of children?

[cubfan]

Child was napping and still asleep when they arrived home and so dad left him in garage w/door to house open.(I have done this myself) Anyway the child woke up and tried to get out and stangulated himself in the process. Accidents happen.

[HootyTooty]

I was wondering the same thing. How often does a person break into a car in order to snatch a child or the car when someone is standing in clear view?

 

I mean, I have NEVER heard of anything like that happening in our area. My child has never been watched by anyone other than my parents, they don't go off our street alone, they've never walked to school or ridden a school bus, etc. I am confident that I am an extremely protective parent.

.......

Twice last year in our area, cars were stolen with children were inside. I thinkin both situations the parents went in to pay for gas as the perp went and stole the car. Luckily none of the kids were hurt.

 

In our area it is actually a charge of neglect if you leave a child under 13 (I need to double check). It is silly, but there are some cops that enforce it as a local hs mom found out a few years back.

[mirth]

It's one thing for a parent to worry that their child might be kidnapped if left in the car. However, for a policeman to cite potential kidnapping or carjacking as the reason for your ticket is ridiculous.

 

 

I think those scenarios are unlikely, but not unprecedented and therefore those reasons not ridiculous.

[Parrothead]

That wasn't what the law I read this morning said - it specified 8 (which is also the minimum for leaving a child home alone.) What kind of ticket did you get? I'm curious now! I'll have to do some more digging around.

 

ETA: I just did a search on the NC Legislature site and as recetly as 2009 a bill disallowing children in vehicles alone under the age of 9 was not passed. In that bill, a child under 9 must be supervised by a person 14 or over. I am very interested, then, what you were charged with when ticketed.

It could have been a municipal law pertaining to only that city.

[helena]

It seems like some of us have personal or somewhat personal stories for why we wouldn't do this. It's not about odds or common sense. For me, it's that the almost impossible happened and it just changes you.

 

I would have never thought twice about leaving my kids in the car, had we not had a family tragedy.

[angela in ohio]

I'm interested as well, because I can't come up with anything in the statutes that states 12. I see that Lilireds' kids are now ages 3-10, but I wonder what their ages were at the time of the ticket and whether that might have been a factor, as well as the number of children?

 

It sounds like her car was running (A/C was on,) so there may be a different law for that. I know here there must be a licensed driver in any running car, so anychild under 16 would be a problem.

[Cricket]

It seems like some of us have personal or somewhat personal stories for why we wouldn't do this. It's not about odds or common sense. For me, it's that the almost impossible happened and it just changes you.

 

I would have never thought twice about leaving my kids in the car, had we not had a family tragedy.

 

:iagree: Many of these incidents are freak accidents but if something happened to a close friend or family member, or even someone in our town, I would think about it every time and it would definitely change my perspective.

[Matryoshka]

Twice last year in our area, cars were stolen with children were inside. I thinkin both situations the parents went in to pay for gas as the perp went and stole the car. Luckily none of the kids were hurt.

 

 

Was the problem really that the children were inside the car, or that the keys were left in the ignition? Or even more egregious, was the engine running? Or did they manage to hot-wire the car in that time, with the kids inside?

 

I wouldn't leave my car with the keys inside or with the engine running while I ran in someplace, even without kids in the car! I think these kinds of scenarios confuse the root cause of the problem...

[celticmom]

One time I left my dd in the car in the driveway with all the windows rolled down because it was the safest place for her at that instant in time. I don't remember exactly how, I think it involved a keychain that could be separated into two parts but I managed to lock us out of the house. She was definitely safer in the car with the windows down while I was breaking a window, unlocking it, climbing into the house and retrieving the house keys. I think common sense about the situation should prevail.

[HootyTooty]

Was the problem really that the children were inside the car, or that the keys were left in the ignition? Or even more egregious, was the engine running? Or did they manage to hot-wire the car in that time, with the kids inside?

 

I wouldn't leave my car with the keys inside or with the engine running while I ran in someplace, even without kids in the car! I think these kinds of scenarios confuse the root cause of the problem...

I know one was the dad left the child in a locked car and was robbed coming out of the store. The thief took his keys and the car. The other I can't remember the details.

 

The other was a family visiting from out of town. The mother was pumping gas and the guy punched her in her face took her keys and took off in the family van. :(

[Matryoshka]

I know one was the dad left the child in a locked car and was robbed coming out of the store. The thief took his keys and the car. The other I can't remember the details.

 

The other was a family visiting from out of town. The mother was pumping gas and the guy punched her in her face took her keys and took off in the family van. :(

 

These both seem really freaky. The first one sounds like the kids would've been safe if they'd come in, but in the second scenario, the mom was pumping gas - to me that's not "leaving the kids in the car". Are we now suggesting we should take the kids out of the car while we pump gas? What would you do with an infant - hold it in one hand and pump with the other - while the toddlers play between the pumps?

[FaithManor]

The leading cause of death, by a whomping huge margin, for children 3-14 is traffic collision. Children dying from being left in a car without a driver or other adult/teen is only a teeny, tiny percentage of vehicular related fatalities. Yet, none of us will ever rethink tossing our child into the car to go grocery shopping, off to soccer, church, etc. But, in all actuality, if we look at it from a risk perspective, the most irresponsible decision a parent can make is to actually drive a child anywhere. Or worse, allow someone under 20 to drive a car. Most of us would not think of refusing our teens the chance to drive the family auto until they are a sophomore or junior in college!

 

It's a matter of perspective. Since car crashes are common, the media under reports the news because "it doesn't grab ratings" though fatalities litter the highways. You should ask my dd why she is probably the most conservative driver we've ever seen in her age range....it doesn't take long to decide to "cool it" and drive VERY defensively (she assumes all other drivers on the road are idiots) when you've spent a few ambulance shifts trying to put people back together along the side of a snow covered freeway, or placed a child inside a body bag, or let a woman hold her dead child in her arms all the way to the hospital because she just isn't ready to surrender him or her yet.

 

The reality is, we endanger our children far, far more every single time we place them in a vehicle and back out of the driverway than we ever will by leaving them in the car while we run in to pick up the dry cleaning. But, since we are a completely car dependent society, we have to psychological ignore these risks and go about our business every day and well we should. If we spend much more time contemplating every car related tragedy, we'd live in abject fear which is just as bad for our health as taking that assumption of risk.

 

DD, the paramedic student, has not one time, in logging 750 hours of ambulance/ER time treated a child for an injury related to being left alone in a car, but she has tried to rescusitate an infant whose properly installed carseat was ripped from the car and thrown over thirty feet when the mini-van was "shorn" by a truck. She has treated for life threatening injuries, older children in car accidents and some of them at not all that "impressive" of speeds (t-bones at stop signs & stop lights are terrible things), she has put younger than 18's in body bags from traffic collisions. She has treated a child for a closed head injury just from tripping on the sidewalk. There are the countless transports for excessive bleeding from cuts due to finding mamma's scissors, the paring knife laid on the counter while the parent runs to the phone, the fall down the stairs, getting the older sibs lego stuck in an airway, etc.

 

The reality is that the choice to leave a child in a car or not is something we have control of and so it is comforting to "take a side". We don't feel like we have a choice whether or not to give up driving, or stop chopping vegetables, or to sell the house and get a ranch with no stairs, rip up that dangerous sidewalk, etc.

 

Food for thought!

 

Faith

[Nestof3]

Was the problem really that the children were inside the car, or that the keys were left in the ignition? Or even more egregious, was the engine running? Or did they manage to hot-wire the car in that time, with the kids inside?

 

 

I wouldn't leave my car with the keys inside or with the engine running while I ran in someplace, even without kids in the car! I think these kinds of scenarios confuse the root cause of the problem...

 

I agree.

[unsinkable]

The leading cause of death, by a whomping huge margin, for children 3-14 is traffic collision. Children dying from being left in a car without a driver or other adult/teen is only a teeny, tiny percentage of vehicular related fatalities. Yet, none of us will ever rethink tossing our child into the car to go grocery shopping, off to soccer, church, etc. But, in all actuality, if we look at it from a risk perspective, the most irresponsible decision a parent can make is to actually drive a child anywhere. Or worse, allow someone under 20 to drive a car. Most of us would not think of refusing our teens the chance to drive the family auto until they are a sophomore or junior in college!

 

It's a matter of perspective. Since car crashes are common, the media under reports the news because "it doesn't grab ratings" though fatalities litter the highways. You should ask my dd why she is probably the most conservative driver we've ever seen in her age range....it doesn't take long to decide to "cool it" and drive VERY defensively (she assumes all other drivers on the road are idiots) when you've spent a few ambulance shifts trying to put people back together along the side of a snow covered freeway, or placed a child inside a body bag, or let a woman hold her dead child in her arms all the way to the hospital because she just isn't ready to surrender him or her yet.

 

The reality is, we endanger our children far, far more every single time we place them in a vehicle and back out of the driverway than we ever will by leaving them in the car while we run in to pick up the dry cleaning. But, since we are a completely car dependent society, we have to psychological ignore these risks and go about our business every day and well we should. If we spend much more time contemplating every car related tragedy, we'd live in abject fear which is just as bad for our health as taking that assumption of risk.

 

DD, the paramedic student, has not one time, in logging 750 hours of ambulance/ER time treated a child for an injury related to being left alone in a car, but she has tried to rescusitate an infant whose properly installed carseat was ripped from the car and thrown over thirty feet when the mini-van was "shorn" by a truck. She has treated for life threatening injuries, older children in car accidents and some of them at not all that "impressive" of speeds (t-bones at stop signs & stop lights are terrible things), she has put younger than 18's in body bags from traffic collisions. She has treated a child for a closed head injury just from tripping on the sidewalk. There are the countless transports for excessive bleeding from cuts due to finding mamma's scissors, the paring knife laid on the counter while the parent runs to the phone, the fall down the stairs, getting the older sibs lego stuck in an airway, etc.

 

The reality is that the choice to leave a child in a car or not is something we have control of and so it is comforting to "take a side". We don't feel like we have a choice whether or not to give up driving, or stop chopping vegetables, or to sell the house and get a ranch with no stairs, rip up that dangerous sidewalk, etc.

 

Food for thought!

 

Faith

 

Wow...all that in 750 hours. Boggles the mind.

[Dolphin]

For me it is about minimizing the risk to my children. Yes, a lot of kids die in car accidents. That is why safety ratings for crashes were one of the main things that I looked at when buying my car. My dd is turning four next month. She is in a Britax regent, which is a 5 point harness, not a booster which she could legally be in now. My ds was in the regent until he turned 7. Even though he no longer has to be in a car seat he has a click booster seat and we have a belt protector/ positioner on his seat belt. I have been driving for over 20 years now, not one ticket or warning as I don't speed, I don't weave, and I drive defensively.

 

My kids do not play out in the front unless I am with them, our back yard is fenced, gated, and locked. We have smoke decorators in the house. My daughter still has a parent with her during bath time, my son can take a bath on his own now, but the door is open and I am in the next room. We chat the whole time, and I call to him if he is quiet for more than 30 sec. He is a splasher, so that is good.

 

Ok, so only 48 kids died in a car from being left unattended last year, but they were preventable deaths.

 

As parents we assess situations, where we live, and what dangers we see. Some people are more relaxed than others, we just all have to do the best we can to get our kids safely into adult hood while also allowing them the fullness of living an interesting and stimulating life. It is a balancing act, and there are so many different ways to balance it all.

[Desert Rat]

Yeah, weird wasn't harsh enough. I don't ever watch the news so my parents recently filled me in on this story. I don't know a lot of the details. This is for sure an extreme, even for Las Vegas. I hope they get a long sentence. They had several more kids who are now with family.

[Krista in LA]

I should note that my kids are older so this isn't so much an issue for me personally (until I have grandkids:)) but I am really interested in the replies.

 

Well, I was at least 10 when I was alone in the car when I put it in neutral and it went rolling backwards into the street. And I wasn't a kid that got into things or couldn't be trusted. Sometimes it just happens, even to somewhat older kids.

[Laura in CA]

The posters who pointed out that there is a far greater risk of an accident while driving reminded me of an article in the New York Times, "Keeping Kids Safe from the Wrong Dangers." Excerpt:

 

“The least safe thing you can do with your child, statistically, is drive them somewhere,†said Lenore Skenazy, author of “Free-Range Kids,†a manifesto preaching a return to the day when children were allowed to roam on their own. “Yet every time we put them in the car we don’t think, ‘Oh God, maybe I should take public transportation instead, because if something happened to my kid on the way to the orthodontist I could never forgive myself.’ â€

 

So we put them in that car and we drive — to the orthodontist, to school, to their friend’s house two blocks away — because “if I let them walk and they were abducted I would never forgive myself.†This despite the fact that the British writer Warwick Cairns, author of “How to Live Dangerously,†has calculated that if you wanted to guarantee that your child would be snatched off the street, he or she would have to stand outside alone for 750,000 hours. And while we are busy inflating some risks, we tend not to focus on others — like the obesity and diabetes that result when children are driven someplace when they could walk, or when they play video games inside instead of playing in the park.

 

~Laura

[littleWMN]

It seems like some of us have personal or somewhat personal stories for why we wouldn't do this. It's not about odds or common sense. For me, it's that the almost impossible happened and it just changes you.

 

I would have never thought twice about leaving my kids in the car, had we not had a family tragedy.

 

:grouphug:

[nono]

Me, too. In fact, I am well known for leaving it in the car overnight. I do leave my kids in the car, always have. Not overnight, though. ;)

 

Yeah, I'm another for which that analogy doesn't work, because for the second time in my life, I live in a place where people regularly leave the keys to their cars in their ignitions. Overnight.

 

But, I also agree with Dolphin that risk management is wise overall.

[Danestress]

what 15 feet is. My Suburban, which I drove when my twins were small, was 18 feet. Yes, I would stand less than a car's length away from my car for a couple of minutes. This whole conversation seems really silly to me. You can reduce risks, not eliminate them. Most of the time, having 7 children standing with you in the parking lot would be MORE dangerous than having them in their car seats and being 15 feet away.

 

But I think the other problem is that we are all used to fibbers. You ask about being 15 feet away, but many of the answers involve people leaving their children and going into a dry cleaners or gas station - significantly more than 15 feet. I think we hear "15 feet" and don't really believe that that's all that was involved. If you truly mean 15 feet away, I think this is a silly discussion.

 

If you mean "she said it was 15 feet, but really she ran inside and bought cigarettes and stood in line" that's entirely different.

[Nestof3]

So sorry a little passion bothers you so much to call it rude. You should be bothered more that children get left in cars that they die in because they over heat or get kidnapped or ......... People's laziness annoys me. I think we are getting a little too whimpy as a society that every little thing said in a less than monotone voice is called "rude".So sorry you are so very sensitive. Toughen up a bit. :glare:

 

Now you're calling people who leave children in cars lazy? I agree that you are rude.

 

I honestly don't take things very sensitively on these boards, but just because I am not freaked out by the few cases of child deaths in cars doesn't make me lazy. I know exactly what I am doing. I have never once felt I put my child in danger, and just because some distracted person forgot that had a kid with them that day doesn't make me one of those people.

 

I shop far more without my kids than I do with my kids, and the fact that there might be some person waiting to snatch me or my car hasn't stopped me from going out alone. I refuse to be scared by such paranoia.

[sewingmama]

Here is something more likely to happen then an abduction or a fire that parents don't always think about.

 

A child playing with an electric window puts their head out and crushes their windpipe - it's instantaneous so even if you are standing right there you won't be able to stop it.

 

Just a warning not to let your kid play with them is all.

 

For me the biggest reason I don't leave my kids in the car is that I have a terrible memory and the chances are high I will forget them - not for hours at a time but for 10-20 minutes which is long enough for things to happen. Thus it is not safe for ME to leave my kids in the car. I never forget they are in the car with me in the first place but I could if I walked away and got involved in other things. My kids are young - they cannot always figure out how to open the door yet and get themselves out if I forget them.

[Peek a Boo]

Now you're calling people who leave children in cars lazy? I agree that you are rude.

 

I honestly don't take things very sensitively on these boards, but just because I am not freaked out by the few cases of child deaths in cars doesn't make me lazy.

:iagree:

 

another point:

 

many of the deaths of kids left in cars weren't from "lazy" parents: they were from parents who had one thing distract them the routine of dropping off a kid....and they spent the rest of the day convinced and secure in the knowledge that their child was somewhere SAFE- no worries till they go to pick up the child....

 

the ones who were simply evil don't deserve the positive stigma of lazy....evil is EVIL. 'lazy' is probably the most inaccurate term to use if one truly understands the situations and people involved.

[Nestof3]

Electric windows on a Honda Odyssey do not work if the key is removed and the driver seat opened. Another thing I love about it is the fact that when shutting the side doors, if a hand is in the way, it backs up again and sounds an alarm.

 

Again, my kids, 20, 11 and 9, have never played with car windows. Finally, I think I am the best person to decide what is safe regarding my children and my vehicles. I read news reports, I am alerted to dangers, and I apply the information I think is important. I also never felt a need to hide cleaning chemicals and medicines. My kids are not the sneaky kids that devour as many children's vitamins as they can. They still ask permission to have candy (the 9 and 11 year olds). They didn't rummage around my cabinets.

 

We've had lighters in the kitchen drawer for lighting candles since the boys were born. They are those annoying safety lighters, but still, the boys never played with them. They knew that if they wanted a candle lit, they could ask. As they got older, I allowed them to blow them out. Older still, and I allowed them to light them as long as I was present.

 

Here is something more likely to happen then an abduction or a fire that parents don't always think about.

 

A child playing with an electric window puts their head out and crushes their windpipe - it's instantaneous so even if you are standing right there you won't be able to stop it.

 

Just a warning not to let your kid play with them is all.

 

For me the biggest reason I don't leave my kids in the car is that I have a terrible memory and the chances are high I will forget them - not for hours at a time but for 10-20 minutes which is long enough for things to happen. Thus it is not safe for ME to leave my kids in the car. I never forget they are in the car with me in the first place but I could if I walked away and got involved in other things. My kids are young - they cannot always figure out how to open the door yet and get themselves out if I forget them.

Edited March 7, 2011 by nestof3

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

And this crazy lady broke into her car or was it unlocked?

 

It was locked. The crazy lady broke in. She was probably schizophrenic. The police had to be called to remove her from the vehicle and take her away.

[lionfamily1999]

One time I left my dd in the car in the driveway with all the windows rolled down because it was the safest place for her at that instant in time. I don't remember exactly how, I think it involved a keychain that could be separated into two parts but I managed to lock us out of the house. She was definitely safer in the car with the windows down while I was breaking a window, unlocking it, climbing into the house and retrieving the house keys. I think common sense about the situation should prevail.

:iagree: I think when we make laws to force people to be responsible in a generic way, without allowing for situations, then we can force people to do dangerous things. IOW, here you could have gotten a ticket for that (if not had CPS and all the King's horses and all the King's men called in). When there are laws that specify such things they tend to outrank common sense (leaving my child rolling around on the ground would be less safe).

For me it is about minimizing the risk to my children. Yes, a lot of kids die in car accidents. That is why safety ratings for crashes were one of the main things that I looked at when buying my car. My dd is turning four next month. She is in a Britax regent, which is a 5 point harness, not a booster which she could legally be in now. My ds was in the regent until he turned 7. Even though he no longer has to be in a car seat he has a click booster seat and we have a belt protector/ positioner on his seat belt. I have been driving for over 20 years now, not one ticket or warning as I don't speed, I don't weave, and I drive defensively.

 

My kids do not play out in the front unless I am with them, our back yard is fenced, gated, and locked. We have smoke decorators in the house. My daughter still has a parent with her during bath time, my son can take a bath on his own now, but the door is open and I am in the next room. We chat the whole time, and I call to him if he is quiet for more than 30 sec. He is a splasher, so that is good.

 

Ok, so only 48 kids died in a car from being left unattended last year, but they were preventable deaths.

 

As parents we assess situations, where we live, and what dangers we see. Some people are more relaxed than others, we just all have to do the best we can to get our kids safely into adult hood while also allowing them the fullness of living an interesting and stimulating life. It is a balancing act, and there are so many different ways to balance it all.

My issue with the laws about children in cars is that they do not allow the parents to assess the situations. There are many different ways to balance it all and I think sometimes in our zeal to protect each other we forget that.

[Barb_]

If you leave a child in a car unattended, you are more in danger of a scene or a CPS/police visit by a well-meaning busybody than you are of that child being abducted, rolling down a hill or burning up in a fire. The former is less traumatic but many times more likely to happen. I have a problem with laws and societal norms that take the ability to reason and assess risks away from parents. It makes us all paranoid.

 

Full disclosure, I'm the mom that had the police called on her last year for leaving a 9yo and 11yo in a Barnes and Noble with their allowance money to shop for books while I popped in to TJ MAXX next door to buy shoes for the toddler. I was gone 30 minutes. The cops let me go because of their ages but sternly warned me that I was never to do that again. In fact, he wouldn't allow his 15yo (!) to shop for books alone. Cops see a lot of bad stuff so you never know when you're going to get one who will overreact. At that point, you are pretty much at the mercy of their own paranoia and subjectivity.

 

Barb

[lionfamily1999]

If you leave a child in a car unattended, you are more in danger of a scene or a CPS/police visit by a well-meaning busybody than you are of that child being abducted, rolling down a hill or burning up in a fire. The former is less traumatic but many times more likely to happen. I have a problem with laws and societal norms that take the ability to reason and assess risks away from parents. It makes us all paranoid.

 

Full disclosure, I'm the mom that had the police called on her last year for leaving a 9yo and 11yo in a Barnes and Noble with their allowance money to shop for books while I popped in to TJ MAXX next door to buy shoes for the toddler. I was gone 30 minutes. The cops let me go because of their ages but sternly warned me that I was never to do that again. In fact, he wouldn't allow his 15yo (!) to shop for books alone. Cops see a lot of bad stuff so you never know when you're going to get one who will overreact. At that point, you are pretty much at the mercy of their own paranoia and subjectivity.

 

Barb

:banghead: Barb what a horrible thing to have happen. And yet! people let their kids wander around the mall alone (seen it!), go to movies without them (seen the parents in the lobby!) and that's fine. It's so... I can't even think of the word I want right now :p You can let your child knock every box of cereal down at the grocery store while you are two aisles over reading magazines, but well behaved kids can't pick out a book. What in the world?!?

[Murphy101]

Personally I feel horrible for children of all ages these days. Their first 6 years are typically spent harnessed, penned, fenced, and monitored. And the next 12 are the same, just the devices or means used aren't as visible.

 

They might be safer, which is debatable IMO, but they aren't getting to really live and enjoy exploring the world around them and are missing out on so many learning and maturing opportunities. Bc it isn't safe. Bc something might happen. Bc they shouldn't have to grow up too soon. Bc... Insert any boggie devil.

 

It's sad and tragic when a moment of normal everyday living going wrong. No bout about that.

 

But living is a scary terminal condition.

 

I feel bad for even my teens. Due to laws, social fears, and coddling teens don't have even half the freedom my dh and I had at their ages.

 

And the sad thing is, life in America has never been safer or more informed, so if ever there was a time to relax - this is it. That we are far more paranoid and restrictive than our grandparents or great grandparents or those who live in 2nd and 3rd world countries is just irrational and a disservice to our children.

[FaithManor]

Personally I feel horrible for children of all ages these days. Their first 6 years are typically spent harnessed, penned, fenced, and monitored. And the next 12 are the same, just the devices or means used aren't as visible.

 

They might be safer, which is debatable IMO, but they aren't getting to really live and enjoy exploring the world around them and are missing out on so many learning and maturing opportunities. Bc it isn't safe. Bc something might happen. Bc they shouldn't have to grow up too soon. Bc... Insert any boggie devil.

 

It's sad and tragic when a moment of normal everyday living going wrong. No bout about that.

 

But living is a scary terminal condition.

 

I feel bad for even my teens. Due to laws, social fears, and coddling teens don't have even half the freedom my dh and I had at their ages.

 

And the sad thing is, life in America has never been safer or more informed, so if ever there was a time to relax - this is it. That we are far more paranoid and restrictive than our grandparents or great grandparents or those who live in 2nd and 3rd world countries is just irrational and a disservice to our children.

 

Amen! My dad and his brother, at the ages of 9 and 10, used to set out together in summer after doing their chores, with nothing more than a sandwich, an apple, and a canteen, for the local stateland and naturally occuring lake. They didn't usually show up again until supper time. Now a ways, I'd probably be locked in jail for letting my very capable 10 year old wander around his grandpa's five acres without a leash with me on the end of it!

 

Faith

[mom2denj]

I think it totally depends on the situation.

[Nestof3]

I know I sound like a plug for the Odyssey, but another feature I like is that if someone tries to get into the van or if someone tries to get out while the doors are locked, this horribly loud alarm goes off. I truly think that if a person started to go into a vehicle with such a loud alarm, they would think twice.

 

Secondly, my boys know when they are locked in the van that if they pull on the handle, I'll come running because I'll hear the alarm. So, if a stranger approached the van, all they have to do is sound the alarm. Of course, this wouldn't prevent some person from abducting me while returning my shopping cart and then forcing me to open the van, but I run this risk every day when I go anywhere whether the boys are left in the van or not.

[vonfirmath]

I doubt that anyone would think twice if I was talking to someone 15 feet or more from my 5 year old at a park. If the child does not have the key and if the temperatures are temperate, what makes a child being in a car more of an issue to people?

 

Temperatures inside a car are rarely exactly the same as outside. Even when the temperatures outside are "fine" it can get uncomfortably warm inside the car with the amplifying effect of windows and such.

[lionfamily1999]

I know I sound like a plug for the Odyssey, but another feature I like is that if someone tries to get into the van or if someone tries to get out while the doors are locked, this horribly loud alarm goes off. I truly think that if a person started to go into a vehicle with such a loud alarm, they would think twice.

 

Secondly, my boys know when they are locked in the van that if they pull on the handle, I'll come running because I'll hear the alarm. So, if a stranger approached the van, all they have to do is sound the alarm. Of course, this wouldn't prevent some person from abducting me while returning my shopping cart and then forcing me to open the van, but I run this risk every day when I go anywhere whether the boys are left in the van or not.

My Volvo does this. I lock the boys in and they know that if anyone goes for the doors the car will start beeping and flashing its lights like mad. It's worked, they stay in the car.

 

It's also impossible to get the car out of park without the key in the ignition.

 

Granted, this is a 90 something Volvo Stationwagon. I don't know about the tech in the newer ones.

[Peek a Boo]

They might be safer, which is debatable IMO, but they aren't getting to really live and enjoy exploring the world around them and are missing out on so many learning and maturing opportunities. .......

But living is a scary terminal condition.

......

And the sad thing is, life in America has never been safer or more informed, so if ever there was a time to relax - this is it. That we are far more paranoid and restrictive than our grandparents or great grandparents or those who live in 2nd and 3rd world countries is just irrational and a disservice to our children.

 

I agree with the first part, but we have some pretty solid statistics to point out WHY things "have never been safer...." and a lot of it is because of the increased steps parents and our gvt have taken to KEEP children safe. Relaxing does away with exactly what makes it so safe.

 

I am all for letting my kids do "dangerous" things, but even then it is prudent to minimize risks, and their life growing up is about learning to do dangerous things repeatedly by minimizing risks....which many times involves "don't do that!" [whatever 'that' is....]. There are ways that EVERYONE minimizes risks: on the job, in recreational areas, with various tools, in daycares, etc. Even in the military and in other violent situations we teach how to do dangerous things as safely as possible - not to relax. There's time and a place for relaxing, and if you haven't created a safe situation, you can't really relax. ;) So....learning to create a safe situation becomes pretty important.

[Peek a Boo]

The posters who pointed out that there is a far greater risk of an accident while driving reminded me of an article in the New York Times, "Keeping Kids Safe from the Wrong Dangers." Excerpt:

....despite the fact that the British writer Warwick Cairns, author of “How to Live Dangerously,†has calculated that if you wanted to guarantee that your child would be snatched off the street, he or she would have to stand outside alone for 750,000 hours. And while we are busy inflating some risks,

 

 

 

back to my post above [quoting Martha]. There's a reason those risks are getting lower. ;)

[Murphy101]

I agree with the first part, but we have some pretty solid statistics to point out WHY things "have never been safer...." and a lot of it is because of the increased steps parents and our gvt have taken to KEEP children safe. Relaxing does away with exactly what makes it so safe.

 

I am all for letting my kids do "dangerous" things, but even then it is prudent to minimize risks, and their life growing up is about learning to do dangerous things repeatedly by minimizing risks....which many times involves "don't do that!" [whatever 'that' is....]. There are ways that EVERYONE minimizes risks: on the job, in recreational areas, with various tools, in daycares, etc. Even in the military and in other violent situations we teach how to do dangerous things as safely as possible - not to relax. There's time and a place for relaxing, and if you haven't created a safe situation, you can't really relax. ;) So....learning to create a safe situation becomes pretty important.

 

Not really. The number one safety factor is better medical care. It has done more than all interventions combined.

 

And doing dangerous things safer is of course a factor.

 

Just sitting in the car is not dangerous. Putting it on par with dangerous activities like the military and violent situations is flat out ridiculous.

 

There is minimizing risk and there is reacting to a risk far out of proportion.

 

Out of the millions of people in America, it's so unlikely that a child will light the vehicle on fire, crush their windpipe in a window, be abducted, start the car, or whatever that it is outside of reasonable proportion to the likelihood of the scenario to be fearful of such things happening without another factor to justify it, much less make laws against it. At least in my opinion.

[Laurie4b]

The posters who pointed out that there is a far greater risk of an accident while driving reminded me of an article in the New York Times, "Keeping Kids Safe from the Wrong Dangers." Excerpt:

 

“The least safe thing you can do with your child, statistically, is drive them somewhere,†said Lenore Skenazy, author of “Free-Range Kids,†a manifesto preaching a return to the day when children were allowed to roam on their own. “Yet every time we put them in the car we don’t think, ‘Oh God, maybe I should take public transportation instead, because if something happened to my kid on the way to the orthodontist I could never forgive myself.’ â€

 

So we put them in that car and we drive — to the orthodontist, to school, to their friend’s house two blocks away — because “if I let them walk and they were abducted I would never forgive myself.†This despite the fact that the British writer Warwick Cairns, author of “How to Live Dangerously,†has calculated that if you wanted to guarantee that your child would be snatched off the street, he or she would have to stand outside alone for 750,000 hours. And while we are busy inflating some risks, we tend not to focus on others — like the obesity and diabetes that result when children are driven someplace when they could walk, or when they play video games inside instead of playing in the park.

 

~Laura

 

:iagree: totally. We make actual laws about neglible risks only because of the media attention while we don't make laws at all about much more common risks. I'm actually not advocating laws about that either. All the "kids playing with cigarette lighters" in cars could happen in homes: should we have a "You cannot leave your child alone in a room in your home so you must take them into the bathroom with you" law? Should we have laws against parents who serve children grapes or hot dogs without cutting them into 1/4's? Should we have a law requiring that children sleep in parents' rooms because if there is a fire the parent might not be able to get to them? Should we pass laws outlawing window blinds because children get choked on the cords frequently? We cannot legislate away each and every accidental death.

 

We are very irrational. We accept much more common accidental deaths because we see them as normal life and we want to guard against truly freak incidents such as stranger kidnapping by legislation (not legislation directed at kidnappers but at parents)