Hey Secular HS-ers: Would you enroll your child in a religious classical coop?

[Halcyon]

ETA 2: ack, just read in the bottom of their handbook that you must be willing to "submit to the doctrine" of the church (a baptist church) and then underneath, it outlines very clearly "The Bible clearly teaches that sexual immorality, homosexuality, adultery, fornication, abortion, unbiblical divorce, and factious or divisive behavior are offenses grievous unto God" and that you must agree with these (amongst other) statements completely, including one about how women are subordinate to men. Sigh. I guess it's a good thing they're very clear and upfront. Too bad for me! It looks like a well-organized, well-run classical coop!

ETA: I don't want to start a debate. I just want to know what you, as a secular homeschooler, would do.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I am just wondering. Nearby, there is a religious classical homeschool coop. Some of the classes look pretty cool, and I am vaguely considering it for my older in the fall. I'd love him to take some rigorous classical courses in a classroom setting.

Factors to Consider

 

1. They say in their handbook that "XXX Coop will be unapologetically Biblical in its curriculum choices and decidedly classical in its style and approach to teaching."

 

2. Classes: This year, they offer:

FOREIGN LANGUAGE: Latin for Children (Primer A & B), Spanish for Children

GEOGRAPHY: Geography

LITERATURE: Elementary Introduction to the Classics

LANGUAGE ARTS: Institute for Excellence in Writing (IEW Beginner)

SCIENCE: Exploring Creation with Astronomy, Zoology 1

ART: Drawing and Painting, Elementary Art

EMBROIDERY: Embroidery (Level 1 & 2)

LEGO & ROBOTICS: Robotics (I & II)

MUSIC & VOICE: Voice 101, Private Voice, Private Guitar, Brass Instruments, Handbell/Chimes

COMPUTERS: Introduction to Computers

ECONOMICS: Economics

GOVERNMENT: Government

FOREIGN LANGUAGE: Latin (I & II)

LANGUAGE ARTS: Institute for Excellence in Writing (IEW IA, IIB)

LITERATURE: Introduction to Classical Literature

OMNIBUS: Omnibus I - Biblical and Classical Civilizations

SCIENCE: General Science, Physical Science, Biology, Chemistry, Physicis

ART: Drawing and Painting, Elementary Art BIBLE: New Testament Survey I & II

EMBROIDERY: Embroidery (Level 1 & 2)

LEGO & ROBOTICS: Robotics (I & II), Logic

STUDY SKILLS: Study Skills, SAT Preperation

MUSIC & VOICE: Private Voice, Private Guitar, Brass Instruments, Handbell/Chimes

 

3. Here's what the home page says:

'XXX Coop provides a community for students in which they are encouraged to seek God first and to pursue academic excellence. Our ministry has been established to assist homeschooling families by providing excellent classes in core and elective subject areas.

 

 

Our Mission is: To glorify God by connecting with homeschool families and assisting them in their call to educate their children.

 

 

Our Goals are to provide:

 

 

• excellent core, technical and elective classes for upper Elementary, Middle School and High School students.
  
• support, encouragement and training to enhance the parent's role as the primary teacher.
  
• opportunities for annual testing, evaluation, used curriculum sales, etc.
  

 

___________________________________

Disclaimer: I am not an atheist, but DH is Jewish and we are a very open-minded family, religiously speaking and otherwise. So while broadly speaking, the mission of the school doesn't bother me at all, I suppose it would if it was constantly "out there" in the classroom, kwim?

Edited January 26, 2011 by Halcyon

[kalanamak]

No...(Added: now that I've slept on it, I know the basis of my knee-jerk reaction. The use of "unapologetically" and "decidedly" makes them sound like hard-a$$e$ from the get-go. As we used to say in Kansas: Katie bar the door!

 

unapologetically Biblical in its curriculum choices and decidedly classical

 

 

Edited January 26, 2011 by kalanamak

[Halcyon]

No

 

 

:lol: Thanks.

[EKS]

No.

[Halcyon]

No.

 

And there's vote #2. Really, I think I need you ladies to set me straight sometimes. :D

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Yes and I have, but there is NO WAY I would join that one.

[FaithManor]

No. Not happening. But then, I don't like handing my teaching time off to others except for private lessons on an instrument I can't teach (strings or rhythm percussion) or art lessons. I prefer to direct my children's Biblical education as well.

 

Faith

[Halcyon]

Yes and I have, but there is NO WAY I would join that one.

 

 

What about this one makes it unacceptable to you? Just curious-I am not from this area (came from a VERY liberal town) so I am kinda overwhelmed with the religiousness of the HS community here.

[SailorMom]

Nope - certainly not that one.

I have always found it amazing how religion can be infused into every subject in a coop. Also - we attempted to go to PE classes at a local coop. As soon as the moms found out we were secular, we were pretty much ignored. No one would allow their kids to come to our hosue, or meet at the park. No one would invite them over. Sadly - my kids had some really good friends there that were not allowed to ever see them. It was difficult, and the kids begged to leave.

[Anita in NC]

No.

 

For one thing the kids wouldn't want to go to a religious co-op.

 

For another all of the religious co-ops that I know of here in NC require you to sign a statement of faith.

 

For another many religious people, adults and children, seem threaten by us being atheists and I really don't want any more of "those" discussions.

[Halcyon]

Nope - certainly not that one.

I have always found it amazing how religion can be infused into every subject in a coop. Also - we attempted to go to PE classes at a local coop. As soon as the moms found out we were secular, we were pretty much ignored. No one would allow their kids to come to our hosue, or meet at the park. No one would invite them over. Sadly - my kids had some really good friends there that were not allowed to ever see them. It was difficult, and the kids begged to leave.

 

Sigh. That is really sad! My son has a boy in our neighbourhood, a wonderful kind sweet boy, whom he considers his best friend, but the family is quite religious, and ever since I declined to go to their church (they kindly invited me) they have been...well...a bit distant. And their son doesn't seem to come by anymore. My son doesn't understand it, and I don't want to in any way disparage this lovely family so all I can say is that they must be busy. I don't want him to think that because we don't believe the same things they do that they may not want to get close to us. I think he's too young to really 'get' that, kwim? (and besides, there may be another reason that I don't know of)

 

Anyway, I am sorry for you.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Halcyon

[Parrothead]

We homeschool with secular materials but are religious. I would not put my child in that co-op. I don't mind a little bit of religion in school. That places sounds a bit over the top with a specific agenda.

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm Christian, and pretty conservative, and I wouldn't even join that coop. We would NEVER fit in.

[Halcyon]

I'm Christian, and pretty conservative, and I wouldn't even join that coop. We would NEVER fit in.

 

 

Why, though? I am not getting why some Christian homeschoolers might not join this coop? I thought it looked pretty cool! Well, except for all the rules that I would break lol!

Edited January 26, 2011 by Halcyon

[Jen in PA]

No.

[JenneinCA]

No

[Carol in Cal.]

Why, though? I am not getting why even Christian homeschoolers might not join this coop? I thought it looked pretty cool! Well, except for all the rules that I would break lol!

 

There are lots of different kinds of Christians. I'm a 'let's all humbly love and serve God and each other' type. Not a 'here is the chain of command, and by the way, don't let your kids even hear the word "evolution" until they are 27 years old' type.

[Halcyon]

There are lots of different kinds of Christians. I'm a 'let's all humbly love and serve God and each other' type. Not a 'here is the chain of command, and by the way, don't let your kids even hear the word "evolution" until they are 27 years old' type.

 

Thank you for clarifying. Of course I knew this, silly me--just because a place is Christian doesn't mean it's right for all Christians.

[Smithie]

I am Jewish, and we belong to an evangelical co-op and I teach their high schoolers literature. It has been a great experience. I love these other mamas and they act like they love me. My son is getting wonderful socialization, and he's learning about the New Testament stories in a positive way, in addition to learning a bunch of other useful stuff.

 

But this co-op you're looking at? They are stating right on the face of things that they are aggressive proponents of a unitary worldview. Evangelicals are a large and diverse subset of America's faithful. This co-op is a pushy wingnut sub-subset of this large group.

 

I sympathize with your position. My area has several well-established Classical co-ops, and I'd love to be involved with them, but they all go beyond loving Jesus and into the realm of insisting that the earth is 6,000 years old. I can't in good conscience let such people be in positions of authority over my kids. I think that you are dealing with a similar group here.

[Carol in Cal.]

Thank you for clarifying. Of course I knew this, silly me--just because a place is Christian doesn't mean it's right for all Christians.

 

You know, maybe my post was a little snarky. I try to avoid that. I'm sorry.

 

Let me explain differently.

 

The coop sounds like the kind of place where a great deal of uniform belief and practice is normal. I'm not accustomed to total uniformity even in my own, conservative church. We believe in adiophora--the teaching that if the bible doesn't say something fairly specific, we should figure out how to apply its wisdom to our lives but not assume that everyone else would look at that situation and draw the exact same conclusions. Mutual respect would dominate a discussion about something in that category. Just from reading the descriptions you posted, I would expect a lot of people who feel so strongly about their own choices that they just about view them as God's will for everyone, or at least only want to be around those who completely agree with them. That would drive me crazy, and it really bugs me when the Bible is interpreted more tightly than is really justified by the text.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Carol in Cal.

[SonshineLearner]

I think you should ask to see a day of the co-op. I'd really consider it if I were close.... well.... of course... that's my thought.... (and I'm a conservative Christian) BUT, it really is different, depending on what your group believes. My daughter is the spend the night with friends.... be silly... stay up all night and watch some movies... play games.... etc.. She's 12 so I'm ok with that.

Our ballet class for her, until this year, was all hs girls.... no one really invited her over.... or did outside things... (except a couple of times in like...8 years) they are more the "stay with parents" kind of kids.

;)

[Samiam]

I must the weird one out.

 

Since most of the best, most organized HS groups are religious (I have no idea WHY, but secular groups usually can't get their acts together, IMHO), at least from what I have found in the last 7 years, I join anything that sounds like we might enjoy the actual classes, regardless of their "beliefs".

 

I have NEVER had a "Christian" ignore me, walk away from, steer clear of my children, etc etc etc. As a matter of fact, as I see that most Christians are humans, and make ALOT of mistakes just as we all do, I tend to view them as people, rather than those "Christians". The only time I was bit ,umm, taken aback, I guess was when I was having a conversation with a Mom about an issue I was having with DS and his school work and her answers "Well, pray to God and.....blah blah.".....she kind of lost me after that. Not the suggestion I was looking for, but then again, not really unexpected in the setting.

 

I would probably join the group and try it out. If the religion was IN YOUR FACE, ALL THE TIME, then we may drop out after 1st semester or something. But I have found many families in religious HS groups that are great people and remain my friends to this day regardless of their beliefs.

[Lady Florida.]

No.

[Audrey]

Given those terms... absolutely not. No way. Not ever. That is precisely the influence that I do NOT want my kid around.

[secular_mom]

Absolutely not.

[elegantlion]

I'm a christian and absolutely not! It's the log and speck in your eye thing, in other words the prevailing we're right, you're wrong attitude. It's their group and honestly it's nice they say it all up front instead of simply presuming you're their kind of believer.

[melmichigan]

No.

[Guest momk2000]

I'm Christian, and no, I would not join a Christian Homeschool coop.

[astrid]

Given your update, my answer would be

 

NOT NO, BUT H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS NO.

 

astrid

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I don't mind a little bit of religion in school. That places sounds a bit over the top with a specific agenda.

 

This.

 

Even though we are agnostic (my dh is atheist) we DO teach our children all kinds of religious mythology. I do want them to know basic xianity, but NOT be preached at like it is the only truth. yuck.

 

Not to mention that I have a gay kid so......yeah.

[NanceXToo]

No, I wouldn't.

[unsinkable]

No, not that one. :lol:

 

My RC faith doesn't seem compatible with their "worldview."

 

ETA: I forgot you said secular. I am sorry. But my answer still stands. Sometimes I feel I have more in common with secular homeschoolers than with "Biblical" homeschools.

Edited January 26, 2011 by unsinkable

[sweetTN]

Given those terms... absolutely not. No way. Not ever. That is precisely the influence that I do NOT want my kid around.

 

:iagree:

[Poke Salad Annie]

I'm a christian and absolutely not! It's the log and speck in your eye thing, in other words the prevailing we're right, you're wrong attitude. It's their group and honestly it's nice they say it all up front instead of simply presuming you're their kind of believer.

 

Yep, BTDT. So my answer is not by a long shot.

 

The people we were around did *put it in our face* all the time, every time. Not saying that your group would behave in this way, but it got very tiresome for us with ours. The final straw was, you guessed it, a very judgmental remark made to me. We left and haven't looked back--not worth my time or effort. And FWIW, I see these people at the grocery store, Walmart, and just around town in general, and they turn their heads away as they walk by. They don't even bother themselves to acknowledge us (the little peons that we are ;)) that way.

[kalphs]

I'm a Christian and there is no way I would join this co-op.

Sadly this is the direction the local hsing groups in our area have taken.

However they not as "upfront" about their agenda as this particular group was.

So now I am facilitating the "generic/basic" hsing group in the area.

[Mejane]

"The Bible clearly teaches that sexual immorality, homosexuality, adultery, fornication, abortion, unbiblical divorce, and factious or divisive behavior are offenses grievous unto God" and that you must agree with these (amongst other) statements completely, including one about how women are subordinate to men.

 

After I picked myself up off the floor I was rolling upon while laughing, I would have to throw them a big NO. That's just me, though. ;)

[christine in al]

There is a classical Christian madras (... religious school whose primary function is indoctrination) in our town and a lot of folks use it.

 

not me,,, never.

 

They'll go to the over-crowded public school first.

 

~christine in al

[kalphs]

Same here. That group? Those are the type of people, imo, that are ruining the world. Yep. I said it. I'm sure there are great ones out there, but not that one.

(No, I'm not an atheist.)

:iagree:

As a Christian these people in my opinion are not giving a clear, accurate representation of what Christianity is all about.

The area I grew up in was saturated with people of this mindset.

They tend to turn people off/away from Christianity.

Thank goodness for my grandmother and the works of C.S. Lewis.

Edited January 26, 2011 by kalphs

[Night Elf]

Personal experience leads me to say no, not ever again.

 

1. Religious homeschoolers, in religious surroundings, can and will discuss religion. The question will eventually come to you as to what religion you are. They may even question your choice of curriculum. (I was snubbed by a small group of women at my own church because I wasn't use TOG.)

 

2. Religion can and will be present in every class because they live for God, or however you say that everything they do is because of or for God. (That is NOT an insult, that is how I've heard some Christians explain their lifestyles.) I saw it in math, PE, and arts & crafts.

 

Funny story: back when I was a church goer and a Sunday School teacher, my children attended the homeschool classes ministry. I was a substitute for a young children's astronomy class for a couple of weeks. I was reading the book, given to me by the former teacher, and when I read something about the age of the world, one of the 6 year old little boys jumped up and said that was WRONG! He said, 'The earth is only 6,000 years old, isn't it?' Oh my.. I was so startled that I dropped the book onto the floor, purposefully changed pages, told him that we'd have to ask God for the answer on that one, and moved on quickly. I never did figure out if that was the predominant thought of the people in my church or not! That's kind of something important to know. :tongue_smilie:

[simka2]

I'd have to go back to the beginning again, but is there any way for you to agree that "THEY" believe those things? ;)

 

If I couldn't wrap my and my kiddos mind around it that way...then "no!" We wouldn't either....and I am a christian (although a secular homeschooler right now)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I would consider a Christian co-op as long as their statement of faith was optional. The one locally here has a statement of faith I disagree with almost completely but it is optional. They say if you don't sign the statement then you cannot be in a leadership role. Frankly I hate statements of faith for homeschool groups. I would much rather a statement of expected rules and behaviors in the co-op such as the other local co-op. Lastly, I have no problem being repsectful of the beliefs being expressed as long as they are not outrageous such as God says it is ok to use the rod:eek:

 

As for this one, the submission thing would freak me out. It sounds like they want all members to believe hook, line, and sinker:ack2: What about goodwill to other homeschoolers? Are they too afraid to be exposed to other worldviews?

[Barry Goldwater]

I What about goodwill to other homeschoolers? Are they too afraid to be exposed to other worldviews?

 

Not necessarily afraid, just desiring to fortify their kids' Christian worldview prior to exposure to others...

 

I'm with most of the other posters...If I were in your shoes, I would respect their wishes to have the kind of co-op they want (and that they've clearly defined up front), and seek out a co-op that better suits your specific needs and desires :001_smile:

[astrid]

Same here. That group? Those are the type of people, imo, that are ruining the world. Yep. I said it. I'm sure there are great ones out there, but not that one.

 

 

 

(No, I'm not an atheist.)

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

astrid

[jujsky]

Even without reading your ETA parts of the post, no. If they're coming at education from a Biblical view-point it would go against too many of my own beliefs.

[Heather in AL]

Given those terms... absolutely not. No way. Not ever. That is precisely the influence that I do NOT want my kid around.

 

:iagree: This.

 

Given your update, my answer would be

 

NOT NO, BUT H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS NO.

 

astrid

 

:iagree: And this.

 

There just isn't enough room for me to quote everyone's posts that I would like to.

 

Emphatically, no, I would not join that group. Be glad that they listed all that up front. Imagine if you had joined hoping to fit in somehow and 'slide under the radar' about being different, then left under stressful circumstances.

 

I do wish you luck in finding something that suits you.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Not necessarily afraid, just desiring to fortify their kids' Christian worldview prior to exposure to others...

 

I'm with most of the other posters...If I were in your shoes, I would respect their wishes to have the kind of co-op they want (and that they've clearly defined up front), and seek out a co-op that better suits your specific needs and desires :001_smile:

 

I can see that but I teach my ds to be respectful of others religious beliefs and to not discuss or argue about them. I tell him if he has any concerns about what he hears in school, which is a fairly conservative Christian school, to discuss them with me:) I would think a statement asking for religious beliefs of the co-op to be respected would solve the problem. I still don't understand the fear of exposing children to other beliefs though since I try to expose my ds to a myriad of beliefs as well as instill my own beliefs:)

[Unicorn.]

Given your update, my answer would be

 

NOT NO, BUT H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS NO.

 

astrid

 

:iagree: And my ds is going to a private, christian school, with different beliefs than us. (His school is very young earth- We are so the opposite of that!) No way would I send my dc to that co-op!

[Barry Goldwater]

I can see that but I teach my ds to be respectful of others religious beliefs and to not discuss or argue about them. I tell him if he has any concerns about what he hears in school, which is a fairly conservative Christian school, to discuss them with me:) I would think a statement asking for religious beliefs of the co-op to be respected would solve the problem. I still don't understand the fear of exposing children to other beliefs though since I try to expose my ds to a myriad of beliefs as well as instill my own beliefs:)

 

That of course is your perogative. It is their perogative not to, particularly at a young age. I wouldn't characterize their wishes as fear, without knowing them personally first:)

 

Since I wish to respect the OP's desire not to spawn a debate, may I politely suggest starting a s/o thread if you wish to delve into this perspective further, or let's let it lie...I offered my opinion, you shared yours, and the OP can take it for what it's worth. Cheers! :)

[SailorMom]

Wow... just read the ETA part of the first post.

Makes the co-op we had to leave look really relaxed!

:lol:

[Brenda in FL]

Being from South Florida I was kind of excited to see this opportunity and wondered what the co-op was. But after seeing your ETA #2, I would be very reluctant to consider it and I am a conservative Christian.

 

My reasons would be that the statement implies that they may be very legalistic and not open-minded about issues that the Bible is not clear on. I want my children to be critical thinkers and still believe the truths of the Bible, but I want that knowledge to come from the Holy Spirit and not a list of rules that they receive from the adults in their lives.

 

And while I believe that men and women have Biblical roles - I don't believe agree with a blanket statement that women are subordinate to men! ICK! There's all manner of interpretation that goes behind that, and I couldn't trust that they would be taking a true Biblical approach.

 

Now saying that - I really am interested in the name of the co-op. Can you PM the name - It would be ironic if I actually am familiar with the people running it - but I hope not!