Arguments against homeschooling for high school

[Jean in Newcastle]

Now that we are starting to get into high school classes, my supportive parents are all of a sudden not being so supportive of homeschooling. This morning my dad brought up

 

1. He needs to go to a high school so that he can have competition with other boys.

 

He got an eye roll :001_rolleyes: but next time I might remind him that ds13 does compete against other boys and girls in taekwando and that he just entered 6 short stories in a writing contest.

 

2. How can you give a transcript? You're just a mom. What gives you the authority to do that?

 

I told him that the state gives me the authority by saying that I'm a valid teacher under state homeschooling laws.

 

So - what are other arguments against homeschooling in high school that I might expect?

[EKS]

Colleges aren't going to take mommy grades seriously.

 

He's not going to know how to function in a classroom.

[hornblower]

Dating.

 

Seriously. I know one family who put their kid in hs so he could meet lots of girls & go to school dances. :001_rolleyes:

[Joker]

You aren't an "expert" in each subject. My answer is that neither are most high school teachers. Many people believe this to be true, but it is not true most of the time.

 

This is the one I find the most hilarious considering most of my high school teachers were coaches. They were definitely more of an "expert" in coaching than they were teaching.

 

ETA: I'm from small town Texas so the coaches were held in much higher regard than the teachers. The bonus is that we never did anything or had homework on game nights. :)

[homeschoolally]

PROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Ugh! This one is one of the worst offenders.:001_smile:

Fortunately there are tons of news articles that highlight the lovely dancing style that has become popular at many school dances. I'm not even sure what to call it. If that doesn't turn a grandpa off, I don't know what will!

 

You'll do great! But it isn't a bad idea to get your thoughts together about how you'll respond to these questions!

Edited August 31, 2010 by homeschoolally

[Gooblink]

A school teacher told me she opted not to homeschol because she wouldn't send her kid off into the world with only a GED.

 

I'm gonna make transcripts and print my boys some diplomas. :D

[elegantlion]

Boys need to get out from under mother's wing. :glare:

 

 

How can you do science labs?

[elegantlion]

Who are they going to discuss literature with?

 

They'll never have a PE class. They'll miss the locker room....blah, blah, blah...

[Whereneverever]

Who are they going to discuss literature with?

 

They'll never have a PE class. They'll miss the locker room....blah, blah, blah...

Wait, locker rooms are good things in high school?

[elegantlion]

Wait, locker rooms are good things in high school?

 

School spirit, rah, rah, rah, maybe for some people. changing and showering with 30 other people my age in various stages of puberty was not a fun thing.

[Plucky]

Here's one that became a reality here, my ds needed to get out and take classes away from me. He goes to school part-time and homeschools part-time, and in 2011 will begin running start. If something does come up that is a valid reason to not homeschool full-time, you live in WA state and there are oodles of programs your ds can join, co-ops, parent-ps partnerships, ps, running start. Don't sweat it.

 

And yes, my mom was concerned at 7th and downright frightened at 9th. Now, she sees how great my high schooler is and that it didn't ruin him. LOL

[Starr]

Most people remember their own high school experience. That might have been a few years ago. :D I think it's okay for family who are wanting the best for your children to ask and then they should accept your answers. But my own family favorite is the prom. I told my sister that most of the world doesn't go to a prom and she said, "but your children are Americans!" :lol:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Most people remember their own high school experience. That might have been a few years ago. :D

 

Seeing as my dad is 88, quite a few years ago! I had to laugh a bit since his own high school experience was a one room schoolhouse in rural Iowa.

[cjbeach]

I'm just afraid of what's he going to be like when he has to go out in the real world and get a job...

 

(Seriously, my neighbor just said this to me...about my 7yo!!! I had to bite my cheek to keep from laughing. z-

[Elizabeth in WA]

Colleges aren't going to take mommy grades seriously.

 

 

I think this may actually be true in many cases, but can be countered by standardized tests scores, outside classes, and/or through running start. I also think colleges should be (if they aren't) somewhat skeptical about grades in general since standards vary widely between high schools and teachers within high schools. The notion that GPA is a genuinely objective measure of performance absent the context in which it was earned (given?) puzzles me greatly. But that may be because I bounced out of a well known private school after tenth grade through two different public school sin eleventh before escaping my parents custodial drama by skipping off to an early college program. The standards I saw varied tremendously.

 

And back on topic... I'm sorry you're back to getting the homeschool questioning again Jean. My mom is still totally supportive in spite of my oldest being in 9th this year. As she is the only relative who ever flies across the country to visit us this is a very good thing. On the downside, she is flying in tomorrow.. and knew that today was our first day of school this year when she bought the tickets. :glare:

[kalanamak]

changing and showering with 30 other people my age in various stages of puberty was not a fun thing.

 

Particularly when you are trailing in the Tanner department.:)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm sorry you're back to getting the homeschool questioning again Jean. My mom is still totally supportive in spite of my oldest being in 9th this year. As she is the only relative who ever flies across the country to visit us this is a very good thing. On the downside, she is flying in tomorrow.. and knew that today was our first day of school this year when she bought the tickets. :glare:

 

Well, the questioning isn't too bad. It's more of the "hit and run" variety - a comment slipped in now and then. My SIL homeschooled her kids for elementary and middle school but sent them to ps for high school so I'm paving the way in the family for the older grades.

 

So, is your mom going to watch the kids do school?:D

[Elizabeth in WA]

So, is your mom going to watch the kids do school?:D

 

She wants to teach the younger ones supplemental units on art and music while she is here. I'm trying to imagine them being willing to stay inside when their other work is done to do that versus wanting to go play outside with their neighborhood friends. :confused: It will be an adventurous week, for sure... especially since gym hours seem to be changing daily, a fact that is already driving me crazy.

[gaillardia]

Dating.

 

Seriously. I know one family who put their kid in hs so he could meet lots of girls & go to school dances. :001_rolleyes:

That's the one I hear, "what is he/she going to do about PROM?"

I'd just like to say, "who flippin' cares?" But my kids go to proms that are put on by our church anyway. Yes, we actually listen to classic rock.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Boys need to get out from under mother's wing. :glare:

 

 

How can you do science labs?

 

I don't know why science labs scare so many people off. Of course you can do them at home. I helped a friend of mine do a biology lab for about 10 homeschooled high schoolers. They dissected four different animals (twice what I did in public high school) and had all the time they needed to get it done (not just a 50 or 90 min period).

[creekland]

Go to the last post on this college thread:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148369&page=6

 

And print it off to show them all the places homeschooled kids have gotten into lately. ;)

 

I started homeschooling when my oldest reached high school. Why? Because I work in our local public hs and I wanted my boys to be able to learn more, love learning, and not have to deal with stuff commonly found in high school both inside and outside the classroom.

 

My oldest is now a Freshman in college and has found himself VERY well prepared compared to his ps counterparts (his words). He got offered more money in scholarships than all but one of his ps peers. That one was his best friend who was also going to a more expensive (but not higher in SAT/ACT scores) school.

 

Both my oldest and my middle son have taken our local cc placement test to take some cc courses while in their junior and/or senior year. Their adviser told them they had outstanding scores - the best she's seen. My middle son has e-mails and a post card from Yale telling us they think, based on his sophomore ACT score), that he ought to consider them. There are also oodles of other college brochures in his room. He's just starting his junior year of homeschooling - could be 100% at the cc right now if we wanted him to be. One 4 year college wanted my oldest to skip his senior year and start a year early. We declined (why push adulthood???).

 

I have no regrets.

[Danestress]

I will probably homeschool at least one of my sons through high school, so this is not to say that these concerns overwhelm me or make the decision.

 

 

The social stuff concerns me absolutely zero. Zero. Even if I sit and try, I can't get myself worked up that my sons might not go to the prom. Both of my boys are very active and busy, have sports that they are involved, and simply don't need more social distractions.

 

But I do worry about the way boys can rub up against a mother and chafe under her authority. Honestly, just the normal "Mom with a boy in PS" stuff was hard enough with my oldest. And when I was a girl that age, I would have found it very burdensome to spend the amount of time with my Mom that one must to homeschool. I loved her then and now, but I needed other adults to connect with intellectually.

 

And I do think that even though math has been the subject I feel most comfortable teaching and like the most, I will probably find it hard to teach calculus, differential equations, trigonometry. We have already switched to Videotext for Algebra, but I am still able to guide, correct, explain mistakes. I don't think I will be able to do that 2 years from now. I know I will find a solution, but I do think it's a valid concern.

 

My oldest had a pretty good science education at our PS. I like science. I am teaching a junior high chemistry class. It's awesome. Not afraid of science here. But I am aware that the local high school has certain opportunities than what I can't provide. That is not to say that I don't also have opportunities that IT can't provide. Just that I don't think I can mock the concern.

 

I have taken community college classes. Honestly, that is not an environment I want my 16 year old in any more than I want him to attend the public school. For me, I am not sure that signing my son up for CC classes is a good alternative to teaching at home in the subject that are more advanced than I feel comfortable teaching.

 

I know I will work out solutions to these concerns when the time comes. And while I feel like I can express these concerns to all of you, I am not sure I would appreciate having my parents or anyone else feel like they get to be the deliverer of the concerns. I do think grandparents are within normal boundaries to ask questions, but not to continue pressing.

 

Anyway, I am rambling. But just wanted to say that I think really good mothers who care about providing a first rate education are going to ask some of these questions, and it doesn't surprise me that good grandparents are also thinking about them.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Danestress

[Rivka]

My MIL is already worried about the prom. My oldest is five.

[Tammyla]

I get...prom and labs... Geeze........

 

Family in-laws got to endure a lab lecture and an offer to look through our stuff. The waiting/preserved critters can close almost anyone's mouth.:001_huh:

 

 

Boys need to get out from under mother's wing. :glare:

 

 

How can you do science labs?

[cbollin]

. Yes, we actually listen to classic rock.

 

given this is WTM....that just made me laugh. Thank you. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

I need to go listen to some tunes now. ;)

 

*****

 

I don't think I saw this one "argument against" on this thread: they need to stop homeschooling to go to high school in order to "be salt and light" (or other religious reasoning)

 

My answer to that is: not unless I go with them for one on one training in that area....... (my religious beliefs are that God didn't send people out on solo missions, so I can't send my child out solo.) ymmv.

 

-crystal

[stripe]

I get...prom and labs... Geeze........

 

Family in-laws got to endure a lab lecture and an offer to look through our stuff. The waiting/preserved critters can close almost anyone's mouth.:001_huh:

I love this.

 

I say, forget the preserved critters. Take up hunting as a hobby. Get to know the skinning and organ removal process intimately.

 

I am worried about HS because of not knowing things well. I will have to address this concern. Yes, some of my HS teachers didn't know much, but some of them did. I am not personally prepared to teach HS level literature courses at this point. I think this is why people seek out those who do know.

[Chris in VA]

Scholarships--harder to get if you are homeschooled.

Reply--depends where you look.

 

Sports--Can't participate in NCAA. Can't get sports scholarships.

Reply--Homeschool teams teach the same thing, look fine on a transcript, and then give the actual percentage of kids that go from high school sports to a full scholarship. And mention that they are at college to learn, not to play sports.

 

Moral difficulties--"I want my child to experience moral difficulties before college, so I'll be here to help."

Reply--There are still plenty of moral difficulty opportunities available (it's the socialization argument couched differently).

 

Along with the expert stuff (I'm not an expert in math,how can I teach it at home--reply--outsource), these are the ones I've heard.

 

Oh, and no "reunion"--

Reply--Who CARES?

[stripe]

Oh, and no "reunion"--

 

Reply: If I haven't kept in touch in [10,20,50] years, I clearly didn't miss them that much.

[Mommyfaithe]

That's the one I hear, "what is he/she going to do about PROM?"

I'd just like to say, "who flippin' cares?" But my kids go to proms that are put on by our church anyway. Yes, we actually listen to classic rock.

 

This is soooo funny. My dd's had no desire or inclination to go to the Prom. My older son however, has been to 2 Proms...LOL and really had fun. he had no problem meeting girls AND being invited to join them at the Prom. The Mom's of those girls were happy to have my son escort them....so...there goes the prom theory....

 

~~Faithe

[kewb]

Now that ds is in 7th grade I am starting to hear........"The classes are going to get harder, you know."

[pooh bear]

My ds is only 10, but I am always hearing from my MIL

 

"He needs to go to school so that he can learn to be American"

 

I'm English, dh is American.

 

Ds, was born in Florida. He does speak with an English accent, and has a few English mannerisms, and sayings.

 

I just shake my head and walk away.

[cbollin]

Now that ds is in 7th grade I am starting to hear........"The classes are going to get harder, you know."

 

my reply: I'm sure he can handle them.

 

they might say "but but but I mean you.It's harder for you."

 

reply: I'm not the student. I am a mentor at this stage. I buy lesson plans, answer keys. what's the big deal?

 

 

then end with big smile and change subject or at least talk about their kids for a while. My parents are still just fine and dandy with homeschooling. My mother in law still supports us. Father in law and his wife: oh well.... that's their problem. ;)

 

-crystal

[southcarolinamom]

As my kids have gotten older, they are much easier to teach. In high school they both want to be as independent as possible, so I provided them with curriculum to that end (ie teaching textbooks math, Apologia Science, Sonlight history, etc).

 

I have much more free time for myself than I did 5 or 10 years ago. And they are doing great!

 

My daughter tested in the 99th percentile on her Stanford Achievement test for language arts and reading this year. My son's ACT score in February was high enough to earn him a yearly $5000 scholarship in a SC 4 year university ...

[Tullia]

And, it can be scary to cut yourself loose from all that official institutional backing. From the perspective of a mom who's graduated a son from high school at home; your dad has an excellent point about your son needing competition from other boys. Where his argument breaks down is that you must send him to high school to achieve that.

 

A good transcript requires three elements, IMO:

1. Good content in the sense of containing courses that are challenging and appropriate to your goals

2. Consistent, timely record-keeping

3. Packaging appropriate to the institutions to whom you'll submit the transcript

4. Validation of your grades and transcripts by standardized test scores

 

I had a dear friend who was generally supportive of homeschooling, but she really had a problem understanding how plain ordinary parents could do "all that" in a credible way. So, I made sure she knew about ds' outside activities and I showed her my in-progress transcript whenever I'd updated it. I also shared experiences, good and bad, from others who'd been down that road. I'm sorry to say that she passed away last year and was too ill during ds' last year of high school to see how our experiment turned out.

 

And, it's not all bad that your dad expressed doubts now. Mine have only shared their doubts now that ds is in college and doing well:blink:. They just didn't understand how you can go outside the system and still get into college. My experience was that specific objections can be put into two categories. First, that a child will be a misfit and not equipped to function in the adult world. Second, that they will not be able to get into college. Truth is, I'm sorry to say, both those things can and do happen to home schooled students. Those are possible outcomes, but not certain. I'll add that the same can be said for graduates of public and private high schools too.

Edited August 31, 2010 by Martha in NM
didn't directly address the OP

[Jean in Newcastle]

I haven't heard all of these arguments but it's good to be prepared;)

 

But just wanted to say that I think really good mothers who care about providing a first rate education are going to ask some of these questions, and it doesn't surprise me that good grandparents are also thinking about them.

 

I agree with you. I do ask these questions. And I wouldn't mind it so much if my dad just came out with "We have some concerns. Would you mind setting our mind at ease?" but so far his arguments have been, in my estimation, silly.

 

My ILs don't ask the questions. They just assume that I can't do xyz and try to push for "real school". I don't like that way, either!

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that the responsibility of homeschooling a high school student is both greater and less than that of homeschooling a younger child. It's less in that by high school children can handle a lot of their studies without a lot of direct teaching from Mom. It's greater in that there are so many important documentation and proof requirements that you can pretty safely 'let slide' at earlier ages that have a big downside risk at that level.

 

For me, the decision not to homeschool high school was pretty easy. I know that my DD has a good education so far, and that she is a good writer, thinker, and reader. She has studied algebra to proficiency, which was a key goal of mine. She has had plenty of time to pursue her own interests.

 

But I live in CA, and the excellent public university system here is challenging to homeschool admission, except for one lesser UC campus--Riverside. I am pretty sure that if I homeschool high school I will not be able to provide DD with an education that would enable her to compete for a high UC spot. She might not get one from her BM high school either, but I'm all about options, and she has an opportunity there that I can't easily provide her. If I thought that it was fine to consign her to the local community college system, which is VERY reasonably priced and pretty good, then I would homeschool high school. But I don't have confidence that that system will provide her with a good upper division-prep education to progress further in college--it's on the ropes financially, and required classes are often cancelled several weeks into the semester for lack of minimum enrollment, or kids are denied entry for overenrollment reasons.

 

I'm not saying that it's impossible to homeschool high school well in CA, or to get homeschoolers into the better CA universities. I'm saying that I can't be confident enough of doing that for my DD to be able to commit to it--the downside risk is significant for this state and for this child. That's all.

[Old Dominion Heather]

The ones I always got when I was being homeschooled (long ago) were:

 

1. How will you know how to function in a classroom?

 

2. How will you know how to take notes?

 

3. How will you be able to deal with learning in a group setting instead of being "fed the information"... I guess they didn't take into account that my parents pretty much just pretty much handed me the books and said good luck!

 

College was SOOO much easier than homeschool, I was absolutely SHOCKED.

[Karen in CO]

If your family has been supportive up to now, then they are just expressing the same concerns and worries that we all feel. Really. I let out a huge breath I had been holding in since the day I took my oldest out of school when he recieved his forst college acceptance. It was my MY validation that I hadn't ruined his life by homeschooling him.

 

Seriously.

 

Nobody's child is guaranteed a pass into college because they go to ps or private school. Just like homeschooling doesn't guarantee a better education.

 

It will be hard work. At some point you will seriously lament the fact that your homeschool doesn't have a full-time college admissions counselor. You will regret that you decided to teach X math. You will question Y science. And worry about Z foreign language.

 

You will worry that they are spending too much time alone and too much time with friends. Basically, you will have the same worries any high school parent will have, plus the worries of a high school teacher and much more. Just keep swimming and reassure the family that you have not doomed your kids to failure. When you get to the end, take a deep breath and relax for a minute then continue on with the next.

[holdoll]

Here are ten reasons why you should home school your teen:

 

http://www.hslda.org/highschool/docs/TenReasonsHTHS.asp

 

 

 

The Best Kind of Socialization:

 

http://www.hslda.org/highschool/Best_Socialization.pdf

 

 

 

And my ALL time favorite weapon that should shut every naysayer up::lol:

 

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdf

[nono]

My MIL is already worried about the prom. My oldest is five.

 

Yeah. I've heard that too. My response, "Well, let's just hope she's a nice enough person that someone will invite her as his date." (I didn't say "Put that in your pipe and smoke it" but bit my tongue instead). :tongue_smilie:

[Guest janainaz]

This is the one I find the most hilarious considering most of my high school teachers were coaches. They were definitely more of an "expert" in coaching than they were teaching.

 

ETA: I'm from small town Texas so the coaches were held in much higher regard than the teachers. The bonus is that we never did anything or had homework on game nights. :)

 

This was my experience as well.

[vonfirmath]

A friend this past weekend that is... homeschooling neutral (at least she isn't AGAINST homeschooling, but rather dubious as to most parents being able to do it "properly") said that homeschooling high school was too expensive. Most parents can not afford to stock really good science labs for their kids so their kids would suffer in college for not having that experience.

 

She agreed that homeschooling the younger grades was probably best for the children and most parents could do it fine.

 

My son is just turned 3. But the parts that scare me about HS is putting together a transcript a college will accept, and participation in sports if my kid is academically inclined (we live in Texas)

[edithcrawley]

 

 

And my ALL time favorite weapon that should shut every naysayer up::lol:

 

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdf

 

 

I read this one and didn't exactly see why it would cause the naysayers to believe homeschooling would be better. Of course homeschooling test scores are better, public school has to accept everybody that lives in the district, they get the whole range of kids from genius level to profoundly disabled, which is why each graph showing public schools has them at 50%. Homeschool parents tend to be the ones who would be the most motivated to pay attention to their child's education, no matter where that education would be, while the public schools don't have that benefit. I think a true comparison study would be to take a hs kindergartner and a ps kindergartner that are absolutely equal in all aspects (IQ, family income, number of siblings, ethnicity, etc) and compare their scores on a test each year all the way through senior year of high school. Only then would you be able to know which method was better.

 

I don't mean to be snarky, I'm just not understanding why the study is so great.