Lead, Vandalism, Drug Dealers...I think I'm done here

[joannqn]

I've mentioned before that we live in a bad neighborhood. Over the years, we've seen so much crap happen here, mostly in property crimes and drug houses. It's not an every day, every week, or every month kind of thing but it adds up, ya know.

 

There are drug dealers living across the street currently. The unmistakable signs are there, and the police agree. In fact, they are actively working on getting them out using the normal methods that they apply. We believe, and the police agree, that they or their friends were responsible for the $3,000 of damage done to my car last Monday. Then Thursday or Friday, the police liaison officer drove by the place and had a chat with the guy. We were outside playing with the kids so we saw him drive through the alley next to their house and stop to chat. He emailed us about it and said, "Hope it was quieter there over the weekend." We asked him what he had said to the guy and he basically said, "I think you are dealing dope and you've better stop." I'm guessing they are really pissed now.

 

Anyway, DH told me that tonight when I was gone he had the little one outside on the porch trying to calm her down (she was having a bad night with teething and no mommy) when the guy left. As he left and drove down the street, he stared at DH the whole way down the block. Stared so much as to crane his neck around as he drove away, never once looking at where he was driving.

 

I'm not feeling too safe right now. I'm wondering if they'll escalate from property damage to trying to hurt us personally. I wonder if it is safe for my kids to play outside, alone or with the neighborhood kids, though I feel better when they are with the whole group of them. I wonder if my daughter is safe sleeping on the first floor alone. I wonder if any of us are safe in this house or in our yard. Then there's the whole lead issue and the fact that we are weeks away from taking out an additional $20,000 of debt that we can't afford to fix the problem.

 

So....

 

DH has a client who has offered to rent us a 2 bedroom cabin on a lake in a nearby town that we like...immediately. It's the town that we like; we haven't seen the cabin. The rent would be approximately $400 cheaper than our current mortgage which we would invest in paying off our debt. We'd probably be walking away from our house and letting the mortgage company foreclose.

 

DH is meeting with the guy later this week to talk about our situation with the house, mortgage vs value, issues of foreclosure in our situation, etc. We owe more than our house is currently worth. Hard to sell. Plus it isn't in great condition. The only houses that are selling are both in perfect, move-in condition and priced very low. My neighbor tried to sell her house, which is comparable to ours but a bit larger, for $30,000 less than we owe on ours and it wouldn't sell. So, we're most likely looking at a selling price of $50,000 less than what we owe. Our only option, probably is to walk away. Which is a shame because we have VERY good credit scores currently.

 

So, would you walk away from your mortgage and move into a 2 bedroom cabin with 4 kids?

[Rosie_0801]

In the situation you're describing, I probably would, yeah.

 

:grouphug:

Rosie

[dsmith]

Credit scores can be repaired over time. Family safety is much more important. I'd leave in a heartbeat. :grouphug:

[Annabel Lee]

I agree w/ what Dana said above. No matter your plans for the building and the mortgage, I'd start living somewhere else safer no matter the housing conditions, immediately.

 

I haven't any help for you, just (((hugs))). Perhaps the bank would rather something else happen to the place than it get abandoned... it might be worth asking. Maybe they could do you the favor of saving your credit score, if nothing else, for giving them a heads up. Take my words w/ a grain of salt, as I've had no experience w/ banks in these hard situations.

[anotherbrother]

Thinking about you. I can't imagine how hard this must be. Hope everything works out for you and your family.

[sassenach]

Yeah, I think I would walk away from it all. Best wishes!

[elegantlion]

Knowing what you've already been through, knowing your situation, I'd walk. I would document your reasons for leaving if for no other reason that reading through in the future.

 

Also I'd make sure the police department know your gone, maybe they'd keep an extra eye on the house while it was still in your name. If they're willing to vandalize your car while you live there, what would they do to an empty house?

[Guest CarolineUK]

Go for it! Consider it the beginning of a glorious new adventure, from which point life is just going to get better and better.

 

:grouphug:

[Renee in NC]

Put the house on the market as a short sale. Move ASAP. Work with your mortgage company for the short sale or a deed in lieu of foreclosure.

 

I would *not* take out another $20K in debt for this house. The neighborhood will just get worse, not better. It may never recover its value.

 

Family safety trumps all.

[mom2denj]

YES!!!!!!!! KEEP yourself and your kids safe!!! The Lord has opened up this opportunity to you to GET OUT!!!! These people will take out anyone (without a second thought) who is creating a problem for them. I would get out quickly and quietly!

[mom2denj]

:iagree:Very well said!!!

Put the house on the market as a short sale. Move ASAP. Work with your mortgage company for the short sale or a deed in lieu of foreclosure.

 

I would *not* take out another $20K in debt for this house. The neighborhood will just get worse, not better. It may never recover its value.

 

Family safety trumps all.

[....]

Yes, consider a short sale before walking away entirely.

 

My relatives have been pressuring my MIL and FIL to walk away from their house, too. Their neighborhood is so bad that people threw bricks through their windows, they have a make-shift wooden barricade at their back door (so they can't push their way into the house) and they've now got graffiti all over their garage door.

 

Ever feel like you're living in that movie Escape from New York? :D

 

Seriously, though, look into a short sale first. If you end up walking away from the house entirely, it's possible the mortgage company could sue you for the balance (look at your state's laws) and you would need to go under the court's bankruptcy protection.

[Margo out of lurking]

YES!!!!!!!! KEEP yourself and your kids safe!!! The Lord has opened up this opportunity to you to GET OUT!!!! These people will take out anyone (without a second thought) who is creating a problem for them. I would get out quickly and quietly!

:iagree:

 

Check out the cabin first to ensure that it's habitable. And then consider this for the blessing that it is, JoAnn.

[ChristusG]

Yep, I'd be gone immediately.

[Jenny in Atl]

Yep, I'd be gone immediately.

 

:iagree:

[Disney Dreaming]

Yes, consider a short sale before walking away entirely.

 

My relatives have been pressuring my MIL and FIL to walk away from their house, too. Their neighborhood is so bad that people threw bricks through their windows, they have a make-shift wooden barricade at their back door (so they can't push their way into the house) and they've now got graffiti all over their garage door.

 

Ever feel like you're living in that movie Escape from New York? :D

 

Seriously, though, look into a short sale first. If you end up walking away from the house entirely, it's possible the mortgage company could sue you for the balance (look at your state's laws) and you would need to go under the court's bankruptcy protection.

 

:iagree:

[JudoMom]

Put the house on the market as a short sale. Move ASAP. Work with your mortgage company for the short sale or a deed in lieu of foreclosure.

 

I would *not* take out another $20K in debt for this house. The neighborhood will just get worse, not better. It may never recover its value.

 

Family safety trumps all.

 

:iagree:

[Quiver0f10]

So, would you walk away from your mortgage and move into a 2 bedroom cabin with 4 kids?

 

In a heartbeat. Like today.

[SproutMamaK]

Put the house on the market as a short sale. Move ASAP. Work with your mortgage company for the short sale or a deed in lieu of foreclosure.

 

I would *not* take out another $20K in debt for this house. The neighborhood will just get worse, not better. It may never recover its value.

 

Family safety trumps all.

 

This. Times 10. ;)

[MamaT]

Absolutely. I would do it immediately.

[Heather in AL]

Put the house on the market as a short sale. Move ASAP. Work with your mortgage company for the short sale or a deed in lieu of foreclosure.

 

I would *not* take out another $20K in debt for this house. The neighborhood will just get worse, not better. It may never recover its value.

 

Family safety trumps all.

 

:iagree: This. Now. Consider the $20K you won't be spending a 'savings' and get the heck out of Dodge.

 

Check out the cabin to be sure it's livable, and if it is, call the bank on the way out the door to inquire about a short sale. I wouldn't even pack; I'd just toss stuff in a van/truck and leave. Tomorrow. Or today, if you can.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Jan in SC]

I would leave, but I would look for a larger, more long term place to live while my credit was good. I think the cabin is a wonderful offer, but how long can you live in a two bedroom cabin? (I think of a cabin as a very small vacation home.) Is this person going to need it back by next summer for vacation season? I think your credit might be affected by then and it might be hard to find a decent size place.

 

I would absolutely move!!! I would try to be three steps ahead it would destroy my credit. :grouphug:

[Saille]

I think you are getting good advice about checking out the cabin and looking into a short sale. If the cabin is that much less than your mortgage, you'll be able to pay down debt and make a downpayment fund for a house somewhere else.

[5knights3maidens]

Definitely.

:grouphug:

[asta]

(no tomatoes please)

 

Lots of us have lived, and lots of people live in some seriously crime ridden neighborhoods. This is not said to diminish your experience, but to acknowledge that it is a national and worldwide problem. There have been numerous studies done in Israel, for example, of the health effects of living one's life in a continual state of fear.

 

That said.

 

Besides the crackheads across the street, how many other homes are on your block? What is their condition, and how are the residents who live in them dealing with the decline of your neighborhood? Are they, too, experiencing vandalism of property and "stares"? Do they also have numerous "I'm wondering" sentences running through their mind that have yet to come to fruition? Have you asked them? Have any of them decided that the only possible solution to the vagaries of the situation is to walk away, as they owe more than any of it's worth anyway?

 

Please understand, I'm not standing in judgement of you, I'm honestly asking. My own sister has lived in what sounds to be a similar neighborhood for 20 years. The one neighbor that she feared most ("Crazy drunk gun guy") is the one who is helping most now that her husband is dying. Sometimes life isn't what it seems on the surface.

 

 

asta

[Scuff]

We're in a somewhat similar neighboorhood. I haven't seen a drug house in many years, though. Mostly just alcohol and theft. Our house is VERY upside-down and in need of repairs. But we're reasonably safe, though the kids have less freedom than they would elsewhere. If our house was going to cost 20K just to get it healthy to live in, I would probably do it out of finantial obligation to not just walk away. If I was in a battle with drug dealers who had me pegged as the cause of their problems, I'd pack up and leave. You're health isn't safe and you don't feel safe sleeping at night. Go. With the extra $ you can save up to settle with the bank later.

 

Also, a shortsale might be better for you, IF you could get it sold. (though I doubt it with the lead issues) Make sure you let the bank know your giving it back and you might want to have someone come out and board it up. Once your gone it will likely be destroyed otherwise.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Scuff

[LauraGB]

I agree with the short sale and working with the mortgage company, but Go. Try the cabin out for 2 weeks, and check what else is available. It's just not worth the safety of your family to stick around that house. :grouphug:

[asta]

If you bought your house later than December 6, 1996, your lender/seller was required by law to disclose the presence of lead in pre-1978 housing. If the housing is post 1978, one has to question where the paint even came from.

 

 

asta

[Dobela]

Wow, are you my neighbor? We are looking to move for very similar reasons. Fortunately we are renting but we are trying to buy. Unfortunately, our parents own this house and I am afraid for them when we leave and they try to sell it. This is not a good place for a property to be vacant. Our drug dealer moved out a couple of weeks ago but it still doesn't feel safe.

 

Honestly, I know that feeling of fear and wonder about retribution. I know how it feels to have that car drive by and give that look. I know how it feels to have property stolen and vandalized. My son is no longer allowed outside alone. Our blinds stay closed.

 

If you think you can live in that cabin, I would do it. I have decided I can live in cramped places if my kids can actually go outside and play. I would look at the cabin first, and would really only look at it as a temporary fix. Would you be willing to sell your place at a loss? Maybe one of the other landlords on the street will buy it. Would you be able to pay storage on your household items that won't fit in the cabin?

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[elfgivas]

"swimming party, joanne's cabin, this weekend.

be there or be square."

1. check cabin

2. clean cabin (what are the odds it could be worse)

3. sleep there tonight... (that will help you figure out how feasible it is, really)

4. visit bank tomorrow. talk short sale.

5. call congressman's office to request help if bank is not helpful.

6. figure out the rest of the move/sale.

7. figure out how long you can have the cabin and/or whether you need a longer term solution (definitely easier when your credit rating isn't a disaster BUT lots and lots of folks are in your boat, so folks who rent can't be as choosy as they might have been.

 

8. party : ).... (or at least, sleep peacefully)

 

this sounds very much like the light in the midst of the darkness....

ann

[5LittleMonkeys]

No advice, just wanted to say I hope you find safety and peace of mind soon. Your situation makes my crazy neighbor seem like a tea party. :grouphug:

[Oakblossoms]

Well, if it's across the bridge I'll throw you a party!

 

I'm sorry you have to make this decision. The short sale is good advice.

[joannqn]

We're waiting for dh to meet with his client about our situation. My understanding is that he's heavily involved with the real estate market...owns several rentals, knows others in the business, has general knowledge of what we may be able to do. He was in Alaska when DH last had contact, and they are suppose to get together to talk when he gets home.

 

About the cabin...I can't imagine it's not livable. He owns the cabin next door to this one, too, and has long time renters in it. He's offered to sell to them, but they have been content to just rent. One of the two cabins has a lot of land. He has other rentals, too, including the really nice, high-end home he is living in currently.

 

The liaison officer told us to get the neighbors involved. We're going to talk to the leader of the neighborhood group to see if their are other ideas. I have no idea what the neighbors would be able to do? :confused:

 

DH is working on it. In the meantime, he did some work for MS which was paid for with software that he's selling to help cover the costs of our car repairs. ugh

[joannqn]

Well, if it's across the bridge I'll throw you a party!

 

The cabin is in Lacey.

[Dobela]

 

The liaison officer told us to get the neighbors involved. We're going to talk to the leader of the neighborhood group to see if their are other ideas. I have no idea what the neighbors would be able to do? :confused:

 

Maybe a neighborhood watch of sorts? Friends of ours posted signs of neighborhood watches, started having meetings and advertising the meetings. The noticable crime in their area went way down.

[Lara in Colo]

This is an off the wall thought, try to call that annoying Suzi Orman person on cable for advice. I've never been in the position to ask for her advice but she usually is brutal about what is best for the long term.

Perhaps a real estate attny?

perhaps a credit expert?

 

This is a difficult road you are on, please know you are in my thoughts.

 

Lara

[Teachin'Mine]

God answers prayers in unexpected ways. ;) So what are you doing here??? Get packing!!!! :D Get there while the days are still hot and you can thoroughly enjoy the lake and PEACE and quiet. You deserve that - you've gone above and beyond trying to make your house work. No guilt - just go. :)

[elinnea]

Yikes! What part of Tacoma do you live in? Just curious. We have friends that live on the East Side that have had similar problems to what you are going through (minus the lead issues). I know that they have a worked really hard with the police and other neighbors to make their neighborhood relatively safe.

 

Your situation sounds soo stressful. I think I'd be tempted to move too. Just don't make any hasty decisions. We were so desperate to get out of a neighborhood we lived in that we made a poor choice. The cabin sounds nice but small perhaps? We've lived in some pretty small places but it is hard when you are home a lot. Good luck!

[oldskool]

I am not sure if I would walk away from a mortgage. We were in a similar situation with our neighbors and I know it is so stressful. For years my kids could not play out in the front yard without an adult because of dealers and drunks ending up on our lawn. We even had a level 3 s*x offender living next door for a few months. We were wanting to move, but also had the idea that people who live like this usually move on due to not being able to pay bills. I called the police anytime I saw something and prayed a lot. Eventually all the problem houses on our street have turned over and we now feel safe. I never dreamed that it would happen, and I am glad we stuck it out. I would try to form some kind of neighborhood coalition and contact your city council members. Make as much noise about it that you can with anyone that will listen. It is so unfair for responsible homeowners to be forced out of their homes because of people like this. Hope all works out for you.

 

Lesley

[Carrie12345]

If you bought your house later than December 6, 1996, your lender/seller was required by law to disclose the presence of lead in pre-1978 housing. If the housing is post 1978, one has to question where the paint even came from.

 

 

asta

 

Required to disclose any KNOWN presence of lead. Until recently (the last 6 months-year), sellers didn't have to test, so they could honestly report that there was no KNOWN lead present.

[Denisemomof4]

a cabin on a lake, no matter how small, will make you all happier. You'll have safety (or more of it) and you'll have peace of mind. I would be very, very worried about leaving dd on the first floor alone. Can she sleep upstairs with anyone until you leave, if you do?

 

I'm really sorry this is happening to you. And I can only imagine how extremely difficult it will be to walk away from your home, messing with your credit. BUT, that pales in comparison to risking the safety of ANYONE in your family.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

If it were at all possible, save that extra $400, NO MATTER WHAT, and put it in an account nobody will touch. You can buy a beautiful home, hopefully your forever home, once your credit clears up. I even wonder if there will be more lenience since there are SO MANY in your predicament.

[StephanieZ]

Yes, I'd want to walk away. Given the lead issue, I think you should/must get out in whatever way you must.

 

Definitely be thoughtful in how you walk away. Talk to the mortgage company. Emphasize the health/safety issues for your family and that you hate to do it. . . but must. . . and try to talk them into working out some kind of acceptable short sale.

 

Be aware that they can/could/might come after you later for the short. So, if they clear 100k and you owed 180k. . . then they can come after you for the 80k. (Plus, they will rack up HUGE expenses after they foreclose that might add tens of thousands to your short-ness. . .) ALSO, if they DO forgive some debt, say the 50k you think you are upside down, that is actually a TAXABLE EVENT unless something has changed in the last couple years. So, you could be looking at an extra 50k of taxable income which could REALLY change your tax brackets, etc. And, Tax debts are not something you can get out of via bankrutcy, etc.

 

It is a mess.

 

If I were you, I'd find the $$ to talk to a real estate/foreclosure/bankruptcy atty, even if I had to non-pay my mortgage for a few months to get the $$ together to make it happen.

[Audrey]

So, would you walk away from your mortgage and move into a 2 bedroom cabin with 4 kids?

 

 

Absolutely. Without a doubt. Without a second thought. If I were you, I'd be out of there this minute.

 

As another poster said, you can fix bad credit. I say: family before credit rating.

[Guest SimplyHomeschooling]

My heart goes out to you...

 

Although I would also advice you to move your family to where you will be safe, I would also like to remind you to make an informed decision with regards to your house. Seek legal advice as soon as possible, so you know where you stand. Then take it from there, hopefuly you will get out of this situation with the best possible outcome. I'm not sure exactly how bad the situation is or how immediate the threat in terms of these guys harrassing/harming any of you. This is something for you to weigh against when making your decision.

 

Theres a massive difference between damage to property and damage to person. Why would they single your family out? surely they would want to be discreet about their dealings?

 

Could it be possible that they are just trying to intimidate you? Is it possible to get a report about any previous criminal history that these guys have, so that you have an idea of how dangerous they are? I'm not sure if this is possible.

 

I wondered, why did the police officer approach them, the way he did? surely he knew this would set them off?

 

In the mean time, I would also suggest that you move your child upstairs at night time, just to be on the safe side.

 

My prayers are with your family.

[kalanamak]

 

So, would you walk away from your mortgage and move into a 2 bedroom cabin with 4 kids?

 

Yes, in your situation. I think your neighborhood is going to get worse before it ever gets better. I've known of the area since 1982.

 

But at least go visit the cabin, first. It could be a dump, in more than one sense of the word.

 

:grouphug: but :w00t:! "A change is as good as a vacation."

[jenL]

As someone who has had her credit score ruined and bounced back from it, I say make the move. You can always work on your credit, but you cannot get back someone from your family should something happen.

 

Before leaving though, I'd follow the advice of those who are telling you to seek a lawyer, talk to the bank, etc. It's better to know your options and then make a decision, imho.

 

Praying for you and your family's safety. :grouphug:

[Renee in NC]

Yes, I'd want to walk away. Given the lead issue, I think you should/must get out in whatever way you must.

 

Definitely be thoughtful in how you walk away. Talk to the mortgage company. Emphasize the health/safety issues for your family and that you hate to do it. . . but must. . . and try to talk them into working out some kind of acceptable short sale.

 

Be aware that they can/could/might come after you later for the short. So, if they clear 100k and you owed 180k. . . then they can come after you for the 80k. (Plus, they will rack up HUGE expenses after they foreclose that might add tens of thousands to your short-ness. . .) ALSO, if they DO forgive some debt, say the 50k you think you are upside down, that is actually a TAXABLE EVENT unless something has changed in the last couple years. So, you could be looking at an extra 50k of taxable income which could REALLY change your tax brackets, etc. And, Tax debts are not something you can get out of via bankrutcy, etc.

 

It is a mess.

 

If I were you, I'd find the $$ to talk to a real estate/foreclosure/bankruptcy atty, even if I had to non-pay my mortgage for a few months to get the $$ together to make it happen.

 

The law must have changed because it did not happen to us.

 

From the IRS:

 

Update Dec. 11, 2008 — The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007 generally allows taxpayers to exclude income from the discharge of debt on their principal residence. Debt reduced through mortgage restructuring, as well as mortgage debt forgiven in connection with a foreclosure, qualify for this relief.

 

This provision applies to debt forgiven in calendar years 2007 through 2012. Up to $2 million of forgiven debt is eligible for this exclusion ($1 million if married filing separately). The exclusion doesn’t apply if the discharge is due to services performed for the lender or any other reason not directly related to a decline in the home’s value or the taxpayer’s financial condition.

 

The amount excluded reduces the taxpayer’s cost basis in the home. More details. Further information, including detailed examples, can also be found in Publication 4681, Canceled Debts, Foreclosures, Repossessions, and Abandonments.

 

 

 

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=174034,00.html

 

So, I guess the answer is it depends on your situation.

[Renee in NC]

My heart goes out to you...

 

Theres a massive difference between damage to property and damage to person. Why would they single your family out? surely they would want to be discreet about their dealings?

 

Could it be possible that they are just trying to intimidate you? Is it possible to get a report about any previous criminal history that these guys have, so that you have an idea of how dangerous they are? I'm not sure if this is possible.

 

I wondered, why did the police officer approach them, the way he did? surely he knew this would set them off?

 

.

 

Just to comment on this part:

 

A friend here told me that they used to live in the bad part of town here. When they first moved there, they witnessed some drug dealing going on across the street one night. They called the police, who came barreling up to their home with lights flashing (and shining their headlights on this friend's house.) She said that they were terrified of the repercussions and *never* called the police again for anything.

[Liz CA]

I think you are getting good advice about checking out the cabin and looking into a short sale. If the cabin is that much less than your mortgage, you'll be able to pay down debt and make a downpayment fund for a house somewhere else.

 

Absolutely Joann! Call your mortgage company. You may be surprised what they are willing to do.

I also think that putting the property on the market for a short sale is good advice. I don't think this will ruin your credit for a long time - or not even ruin it at all. A short sale is not the same as foreclosure!

 

However, even if your credit score suffers, rather let it suffer than you and your family! Credit can and will be rebuilt. If something happens to you or your kids, it may not be so easily mended.

[Hockey Mom]

I agree with what most everyone else has said. Move. Family safety trumps credit score every time.