Sigh...helping my college-age teenager make a decision...(very long)

[Julie in CA]

I'm not entirely sure I can put this on paper in a way that makes sense, but....

 

My ds is almost 18 years old (but almost 19). He was dual-enrolled at the community college during high school, and graduated from high school last May. He's continued on at the community college, and (I think) needs only two more classes to have earn an AA. He plans to take those two classes during the summer, so he will be finished by mid-July.

 

My ds has never had a clear idea about what career he'd like to have, and his academics show a certain...lack of direction. He has roughly a 2.8 gpa, which would probably be higher, except for the fact that he has a job on our farm that takes about 30 hours out of his week. As long as he lives at home, he will have the farm workload.

 

His plan has been to finish the summer classes for the AA, then seek out a job. He thinks that UPS would be a great company to work for, and several UPS employees we know have been encouraging him to try for that. One friendly acquaintance who has been working for UPS for over 26 years is planning to speak to his supervisor, and ask if they'd give ds a try.

 

Ds also has a girlfriend that he'd like to make a wife in a couple of years.

 

Now that you've read all of the background, here's my problem.

My mom told me yesterday that she thinks ds should take one more semester of school in the fall, but that he should do it at a Christian college that is located about an hour from where we live. She thinks that ds would find more people that he has a lot in common with, and that he might find his "direction" when he's around other students who have (presumably) more values in common, and a stronger desire to learn. I think it's possible she's right about that. Another good thing would be that ds would be able to stay in dorms during the week, but travel home to visit with us, girlfriend, and worship together in the church we attend. Because he wouldn't be living at home, he'd be freed up from the constant demands of farm life, and he without that distraction, he'd probably find the time and inspiration to improve his academics. The independence from parents would probably be a great intermediate step between living at home and getting married young(ish) in a couple of years.

 

The Christian college would require (much) more money than we have. We were able to pay for community college, and we really don't have much saved. At the same time, I don't think there will be much student aid offered, because our income from the farm (on paper) looks much more rosy than it does in reality. We will have to take on a loan to pay for this. It will be hard.

 

It will be especially hard to make this decision on such short notice. I wasn't planning on this, and ds wasn't either, but he's very open to the idea, perhaps even a bit excited about the prospect. I don't know why we weren't considering it before now, but in order to do all of this, the decision would need to be made today or tomorrow.

 

So, do we call the acquaintance/friend who was willing to put himself out for our ds, and hope he hasn't spoken to his supervisor yet? Should I even be worried about that?

 

Do I try to get dh on board with this, knowing that it means a snap decision obligating us and ds to roughly $15,000 worth of debt just to give it a try for one semester?

 

Or should I let ds go with only earning the AA, and moving forward with his plan to just find a "job" with which he can try to support a family?

 

Ds is a great kid, and he's likely to be willing to go with my opinion on this. I don't want to steer him wrong...

 

What do you all think?

[Renee in NC]

I would let him finish cc in July and get a job. I don't think spending $15,000 is going to help him figure out what he wants to do. A few years of working might, though.

[cat in black]

Have you talked with the college yet? When my son enrolled in a Christian college, they were able to find over $8,000 in scholarships and grants for him.

[justamouse]

I would send him to school. He's been working there with you and he hasn't found his calling. I doubt he will working for UPS. I say he goes to school. He'll never regret it, that's for sure.

[kalanamak]

I would let him finish cc in July and get a job. I don't think spending $15,000 is going to help him figure out what he wants to do. A few years of working might, though.

 

:iagree:

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I would let him finish cc in July and get a job. I don't think spending $15,000 is going to help him figure out what he wants to do. A few years of working might, though.

 

I agree with this. I will be brutally honest. A 2.8 Average at community college isn't all that great. It would be wishful thinking to suppose that he will do better than that at a four year school, especially if he has no firm ambitions or direction. The debt would not be worth it at this point, but it might later, if he becomes motivated to pursue a specific goal.

 

A little maturity does wonders.

[Chris in VA]

I'm not clear on why he would have to do farm work if he lived at home, but could go to live elsewhere. Why couldn't he live at home and not do farm work?

 

An extra semester of school might whet his appetite. Then you'd be obligated somewhat to pay for him to finish a 4 year degree? Could he even get in to the Christian college?

 

I'm not sure I understand all the dynamics.

[NorthwestMom]

I agree with this. I will be brutally honest. A 2.8 Average at community college isn't all that great. It would be wishful thinking to suppose that he will do better than that at a four year school, especially if he has no firm ambitions or direction. The debt would not be worth it at this point, but it might later, if he becomes motivated to pursue a specific goal.

 

A little maturity does wonders.

 

ITA. Taking on the debt would be a curse, not a blessing, at this point. If he wants to go and do it, then he should be the one figuring out how to pay for it and understanding what it means to take on the debt.

[Julie in CA]

I agree with this. I will be brutally honest. A 2.8 Average at community college isn't all that great. It would be wishful thinking to suppose that he will do better than that at a four year school, especially if he has no firm ambitions or direction. The debt would not be worth it at this point, but it might later, if he becomes motivated to pursue a specific goal.

 

A little maturity does wonders.

I agree that a 2.8 isn't very good, I just think that it's more a result of being pulled away from studies almost constantly when he's here. The dairy farm life isn't entirely conducive to applying oneself to studies. It's always been a struggle here. When my dh sees a teenage boy sitting still, he assumes they're available to go out and work.

 

I guess I'm thinking it might be worth it to see, because if he doesn't do this now, the life he's almost certainly going to settle into will leave absolutely no room for exploring this later.

[Annie G]

I'd probably be inclined to send him on a trip- like a gap year trip but shorter. Maybe the distance and independence will help him find some direction.

 

I wouldn't be inclined to plunk down that much money for a semester of school unless the student was chomping at the bit to attend.

 

If he goes to school, who is going to do the 30 hours' worth of farm chores he does?

[TechWife]

My ds has never had a clear idea about what career he'd like to have, and his academics show a certain...lack of direction. He has roughly a 2.8 gpa, which would probably be higher, except for the fact that he has a job on our farm that takes about 30 hours out of his week. As long as he lives at home, he will have the farm workload.

Why must he always have the farm workload? College is a job of it's own. 30 hours is a lot to expect of a full time college student. Many do this when they have no choice, but it sounds like you have a choice if you are able to get the work done if he goes away for a semester.

 

 

 

He thinks that UPS would be a great company to work for

I have heard they are excellent employers - paid health insurance for part timers, even.

 

 

The independence from parents would probably be a great intermediate step between living at home and getting married young(ish) in a couple of years.

Getting a job and moving out on his own would be a great step as well.

 

It will be especially hard to make this decision on such short notice. I wasn't planning on this, and ds wasn't either

I think this may be your answer. Decisions made quickly when not in the face of an emergency can be tricky.

 

So, do we call the acquaintance/friend who was willing to put himself out for our ds, and hope he hasn't spoken to his supervisor yet? Should I even be worried about that?

This is something your ds has to decide. Any calls about jobs or furthering his college career need to be made by him. An employer and a college registrar would expect no less.

 

Do I try to get dh on board with this, knowing that it means a snap decision obligating us and ds to roughly $15,000 worth of debt just to give it a try for one semester?

If your son really wants to do this, then he should be the one doing the persuading. Likewise, he should look for the money necessary to do it.

 

Or should I let ds go with only earning the AA, and moving forward with his plan to just find a "job" with which he can try to support a family?

This is really his own decision. In the end, we have to be comfortable with our kids doing their own thing and blazing their own trails, so yest, I'd say that if he wants to work instead of continuing with school, then let him do so. Many careers exist where having a 4 year college degree is not needed. He may decide to return to school when he has a better idea of what he wants to study.

 

Ds is a great kid, and he's likely to be willing to go with my opinion on this. I don't want to steer him wrong...

In case you haven't figured it out, I am strongly in the camp of personal responsibility and accountability. I think the best thing that you can do would be to tell him it's his decision and let him take it from there. You will be letting him know that you have confidence in his ability to take care of himself, which will help him make even more decisions down the road.

[Danestress]

Maybe I am not seeing this right, but it seems like maybe he is the kind of kid who is too easily steered and lacks a sense of purpose.

 

I think I would tell him that you will consider any proposals that he comes up with regarding ways you could support and encourage him in specific ambitions, but that you aren't going to do the foot work for him - that he's a man and needs a plan. I would tell him that you are a little worried - that you aren't sure if he will be happy long term as a UPS guy, but that some people are and some aren't so he has to decide. If he's not, this is America and people can usually go to college and otherwise change their lives even as adults. But of course marriage and kids make that harder. I would want to find a time to at least mention that you always hoped that he would find work he truly truly loved and that fed his soul. Not everyone does, though. I have a son graduating in June too, and I am concerned about this same issue but am currently keeping my concerns to myself.

 

Personally, I would not want to spend $15k on a 2.8 GPA student without really thinking about it. If he wants to talk about all this, I might want to explore with him why HE thinks he only has a 2.8. Does he feel that he studies in his free time? Is the farm work really making things too hard? It seems to me that one could work 30 hours a week and still make As in college if one really dedicates one's free time. I wonder if he agrees with that. People usually get done about what they set their minds too.

 

I don't know. But I would not want to feel like I am the one doing all the mental work, emotional work, and research on this. I would want him to steer the boat.

[Julie in CA]

I'm not clear on why he would have to do farm work if he lived at home, but could go to live elsewhere. Why couldn't he live at home and not do farm work?

 

It might be something that only a 100th generation farm family would understand? ;)

 

My ds would be the first generation of my dh's family that didn't take up farming. The first one *ever*. Seriously. For the hundreds of years that it can be traced back. My dh knows no other way, even though for a variety of economic reasons, we cannot have ds follow to become a dairy farmer. :sad:

 

If he's here, he'll be out working. If he's living somewhere else an hour away, the priorities change dramatically.

[Tap]

First: Do you think this child has a career calling or do you think he is destined to be a laborer? I am not saying a laborer is a bad thing, most of our country is build by the hard work of laborers. There are some people who are content to go to work, do a good job, and go home. Their home life is their passion....not their job. Finding a career for these people isn't about a passion, it is about finding something that will be stable and offers some opportunity for growth within the company. UPS seems to be one of these places.

 

I would fist make a phone call to the college and find out what he would have to do to get XYZ degree from there and if the are accepting students into that field at this time. Some schools have already filled spots in certain study areas and so this may not be an option for him anyways. Some schools also will only grant a diploma after so many quarters at their school to prevent people from just transferring in to get a 'branded' diploma.

 

I don't see a benefit to sending him to a private school unless he already has a passion for a subject that they offer that is unique to that school. If he is just going for a general studies degree, what would the benefit of a private school be? What class difference is there between what he would take at home vs the private school?

 

I personally would have him finish the degree at home. If he wants to go to the other college next year, and you want to find the money for it...then do it after he at least has his AA finished. There is little use for a 1/2 finished degree. I would finish it now, while he is home and has the chance. If you want to lighten his load and see if his grades improve them lighten his load! If they improve this year, then take that into consideration for next year. The $$ spent on his last quarters at private school could be spent to pay for a worker to replace his skills on a farm.

 

Maybe he does need some independence, but I don't think that should be bought at the parents expense.

 

Does UPS still offer tuition reimbursement? That may be an option for him in the future to pay for a more expensive school.

[dangermom]

Well, I do think that time at a university is time well-spent. I did a couple of semesters at CCs as well as most of my time at a large university and the difference in atmosphere was huge. Before I went to the university, I didn't even know how driven some people were, how serious about studying, how exciting college could be. So it really did make a big difference in my life to go to a 4-year college. I found CC to be pretty stultifying, though I know it's great for many people.

 

Do you feel that he's too directionless and easily-led to spend a year at the local state college? Do you feel that he'd be too vulnerable to the drinking culture? Because that would sure be a lot cheaper, and he could get an apt. in town. It's a perfectly decent school, academics-wise. Why would the expensive Christian school be superior?

[LizzyBee]

I would let him finish cc in July and get a job. I don't think spending $15,000 is going to help him figure out what he wants to do. A few years of working might, though.

 

:iagree: I would not even consider taking on $15k of debt for a kid who isn't sure what he wants to do. It is never to late to go back to school if he decides he wants to later. My dh finished all 4 yrs of a BA degree and 2/3 of an MDiv degree after we got married, and most of that was after we had kids. I'm not saying it's easy, just that it can be done.

[Catherine]

I left the farm to go to college and never regretted it.

 

But to be honest, my parents were ambivalent about it.

 

I think it's clear what *he* wants to do. He's excited about leaving and going off to school which doesn't surprise me. What's holding him back is likely the needs and expectations of his family. I think the decision is yours much more than it is his-it would be the decision to financially support him while he's in school and to allow him to leave the nest, taking his support of your farm with him.

 

I think that making a decision to send him will mean changes for him, and for you, that none of you may have bargained on. You'd have to be ready for that if you sent him.

 

But I see this as your decision, not his. He can't choose to spend your money on his education.

[lionfamily1999]

So, do we call the acquaintance/friend who was willing to put himself out for our ds, and hope he hasn't spoken to his supervisor yet? Should I even be worried about that?

 

Do I try to get dh on board with this, knowing that it means a snap decision obligating us and ds to roughly $15,000 worth of debt just to give it a try for one semester?

 

Or should I let ds go with only earning the AA, and moving forward with his plan to just find a "job" with which he can try to support a family?

 

Ds is a great kid, and he's likely to be willing to go with my opinion on this. I don't want to steer him wrong...

 

What do you all think?

UPS is a great opportunity. I'm not sure what the union agreement is where you are, but in the NE part timers get health care benefits, guaranteed hours, and over time. UPS tends to promote from within, which means he can land a supervisor position (ime) with ease once one opens (as long as he works hard). Also, the part-time hours make it very possible to continue his education (which is something that UPS encourages). If you stick with UPS, you can support a family. My bil and sister met working at UPS, he's a driver and he's the single earner for his family of five.

[Julie in CA]

I left the farm to go to college and never regretted it.

 

But to be honest, my parents were ambivalent about it.

 

I think it's clear what *he* wants to do. He's excited about leaving and going off to school which doesn't surprise me. What's holding him back is likely the needs and expectations of his family.

Ok, now I'm a bit weepy.

I think it's true that he's finally excited about something. About possibilities. I don't think his hard work on the farm or his time at the community college have prepared him to see what was possible. Honestly, spending the money would feel better to me than never knowing if he'd have found his direction if he'd been exposed to a more profoundly academic environment.

[tex-mex]

I left the house at the age of 17 (and never looked back) -- was married at the age of 19 -- but was ready for the commitment and grown up responsibilities. We both were in college and tho' $$$ was tight, it went well for our first years of marriage. I would recommend holding off on kids if possible (if they are serious) and let them grow into being a couple. You change from the age of 19 to the age of 28. DS may realize his girlfriend and him may be incompatible as time goes on??

 

I would personally have your ds do the year of college in the dorms. He may realize how many options there are in the world. He may fall in love with a college gal and get married. (Hey -- it happens. ;)) He may discover a career that interests him. DS needs to fly out of the nest and discover he can make it in the world without being married or in a job like UPS. Reach the stars!! He sounds like HE WANTS TO GO. Let him. He needs to get the loan in his name -- I would not co-sign the loan as this HAS to be his decision. Dairy farmers are great hard workers and good ethics. Son will realize if this is what he wants in life -- he needs to work for it. (Otherwise he will resent you or his future wife.) I say go for it. :grouphug::grouphug:

Edited April 23, 2010 by tex-mex

[Melissa B]

I haven't had a chance to read all the replies, but UPS is a great company to work for while going to college. I worked there and went to a 4-year university. Another college student got me the job and there were several of us employed there and going to the same university. We would discuss our classes and readings while working. :)

[LibraryLover]

When you ask your son what he would like to do (letting him know he has no obligations to the farm) , what does he say?

[Carol in Cal.]

I can't help wondering whether there is some kind of third alternative.

 

I do understand about the drive to pitch in on a farm, although not to the extent that you do, I'm sure. But if that is what is holding his grades back, it would be a lot cheaper to commit to stop asking him to pitch in like that than it would be to send him away to college. I wonder whether you could put it like that to your DH? I'm VERY uncomfortable accepting this as a 'given', especially since it probably rules out his attending those great CA public universities. What a shame if that's true, and why not try to give him a change to redeem his GPA so that he has a shot at a state university or the UC system? I would prioritize that VERY highly right now, even to the extent of suggesting that he change majors to extend his time at the CC and have a chance to bring his grades up to open up that option for him.

 

WRT a Christian college, they are not all as Christian as you might think. I have a very close friend whose DD attended a Christian university and crashed and burned after a very short time, coming home an alcoholic. It was so sad, and really not at all what you would have expected of this family. What a waste that was. In some ways, she would have been better off at a secular university--at least she would have had her guard up. Christian universities are not necessarily sheltered at all. So be careful.

 

I would suggest that he pursue other options to figure out his future. There is nothing wrong with the honest labor of UPS, but if your sense is that he really hasn't thought much about what he could become, I would hesitate to encourage him to settle down so soon. Crown Financial Ministries has a program called "Career Direct" that I have heard is very good--it is a Christian-oriented aptitude-inclination test process. I believe that it's all conducted online. I would start with that and with whatever aptitude testing the CC provides. The nice thing about programs like that is that they sometimes suggest things that you would not have considered.

 

Unless you have a very clear leading toward the Christian college, I would not be inclined to pursue that this minute. I think it will still be there a year from now, and you could make a more measured decision. The things that make it look appealing to me are your DS's enthusiasm, and the difficulty keeping from asking him to do the farmwork. Those are not insignificant, but I'm not sure that they are enough to justify this, unless you know a lot more about the environment there.

[Julie in CA]

When you ask your son what he would like to do (letting him know he has no obligations to the farm) , what does he say?

He says he would like to try the Christian college, but that he knows it would be a financial hardship and difficult for his dad to understand.

 

The feel of the school is very very different than the community college, and the people there sound excited about their faith, their education, and their prospects for the future. The contrast between the atmosphere of the Christian college and the atmosphere of the community college is dramatic.

[usetoschool]

I guess I'm thinking it might be worth it to see, because if he doesn't do this now, the life he's almost certainly going to settle into will leave absolutely no room for exploring this later.

 

Not necessarily true. I know two men (family member and friend) who switched gears after working and realizing they wanted something different. One went to medical school after being married for a few years and having three children. The other didn't graduate from high school, worked into his mid twenties, got married and had a child and then decided he wanted to go to college and became a mechanical engineer.

 

It seems like this needs to be his choice and ambition when he is ready, especially since there is such a high financial cost for you guys. That is a really expensive experiment.

 

Beyond that, UPS drivers make pretty decent money and have excellent benefits. It would not be such a bad thing for him to take that job and then just take some night classes eventually working towards a degree if that is what he decides.

[JFSinIL]

I would let him finish cc in July and get a job. I don't think spending $15,000 is going to help him figure out what he wants to do. A few years of working might, though.

 

I agree. Save the money for when/if he decided to pursue a four-year degree.

[newbie]

He says he would like to try the Christian college, but that he knows it would be a financial hardship and difficult for his dad to understand.

 

The feel of the school is very very different than the community college, and the people there sound excited about their faith, their education, and their prospects for the future. The contrast between the atmosphere of the Christian college and the atmosphere of the community college is dramatic.

 

You know, the farm is a fall back and so is UPS.

 

If he is willing to try and work at it, open the door. It it only one semester and if he does well he can apply for more scholarships , I dont know if its too late for SAT.

 

If he does not do well, he is lucky he can work at the farm of work for UPS.

[May]

College is an expensive place to find yourself. I wouldn't spend the money unless he had a clear plan for what he wanted to do. Maybe a few years out in the workforce will help him with that.

[Starr]

If he goes he shouldn't come home on the weekends. That seems to me to defeat the purpose. His friendships and studies will suffer.

[Nestof3]

I just wanted to add that my son has found several great friends in a secular local school (community college right now, but he's transferring to a local 4-year university this fall). He has sought them out; he desires strong Christian friends. He and some other friends host an on-campus Bible study, and they have monthly game nights and such.

[LibraryLover]

Is there a possibilty that he might get scholarship money or some financial aid? Could he take out a small loan so his dad is not burdened? I know loans are scary, but it is your son's life here, and maybe it's not a bad way for him to discover what he needs for his own future?

 

Good luck. It's not easy being the parent of a young adult. There is so much to consider, so much to weigh. :grouphug:

 

 

He says he would like to try the Christian college, but that he knows it would be a financial hardship and difficult for his dad to understand.

 

The feel of the school is very very different than the community college, and the people there sound excited about their faith, their education, and their prospects for the future. The contrast between the atmosphere of the Christian college and the atmosphere of the community college is dramatic.

[Julie in CA]

He's home from work, and browsing through the degree programs at the Christian school. He's excited about some of the offerings--especially liberal studies and psychology. I guess he didn't realize that some of the jobs connected with those degrees sounded so interesting. His eyes lit up when he was reading about the job opportunities that might arise from those degrees.

 

I appreciate the input from the very knowledgeable ladies here, and I'm so glad to have many perspectives to consider. We'll see what happens next....

 

(p.s. UPS friend got back to him with the message that there are no openings right now, but to apply in September for a foot in the door with seasonal work as a step towards full-time.)

[Julie in CA]

Is there a possibilty that he might get scholarship money or some financial aid? Could he take out a small loan so his dad is not burdened? I know loans are scary, but it is your son's life here, and maybe it's not a bad way for him to discover what he needs for his own future?

 

Good luck. It's not easy being the parent of a young adult. There is so much to consider, so much to weigh. :grouphug:

Actually, the school admissions counselor encouraged us to seek financial aid regardless of whether we think we will qualify. He says that almost all of the students have been able to receive at least *some* financial aid. Ds is also willing to take on some debt for this.

 

And yes, babies, toddlers, and pre-teens have all been much easier than parenting a young adult. Give me a terrible two any day over a life-decision-making teenager! :tongue_smilie:

[LibraryLover]

And yes, babies, toddlers, and pre-teens have all been much easier than parenting a young adult. Give me a terrible two any day over a life-decision-making teenager! :tongue_smilie:

 

:001_smile:So true. It's not all down- hill from infancy.

 

Not by a long shot.

 

Good luck to all as you sort it out.

[bettyandbob]

Sorry if this sounds negative, but it sounds like living at home has given him no room for ambition. Between working on the farm and school it doesn't sound like he's been able to consider other options. And because being at home means he must work and an important person in his life cannot relate to thoughts beyond the farm there will be no chance to think about what he wants while he lives at home. I think any future considerations he has may be heavily obscured by familial expectation.

 

I think he should try to go away to college. For your son going away to college would give him a chance to see what he could do academically, which he has not be allowed at home. You've already said the demands at home are likely the reason for mediocre grades. The demands at home may also be the reason for the lack of ambition. If does in fact find the benefit of having the ability to totally focus on academics, he will make connections with other students and professors. Your ds hasn't been able to immerse himself in the coursework and get to know teachers at the community college, so he's really had no chance to attempt to find a direction there. That is why I think he should have the opportunity to go away. And I'm in the minority here--I would take on debt to help my dc to do this, but the not the debt of a private school and I would expect my dc to have a paid position school holidays to finance school. It sounds like your ds has not been able to save for his education due to the demands of the farm.

 

If he does not go away to college, he should move out, work somewhere to support himself, but give himself the space to consider the possibilities for himself. I would advise against marriage until he's had a little time to be on his own. He may be able to find a job that supports him well enough to finish a BA at a state college. He may decide he wants to train for a trade. He may decide that he just likes the life he carves out with whatever job he finds.

[Laurie4b]

It sounds like you want him to go and that he wants to go.

 

Would your mom help with finances since she suggested this?

 

I would google around for scholarships for farm kids. A lot of scholarships are very specialized and there might be some out there for guys like him. Financial aid from the school is also a possibility.

 

It's not all that unusual for a guy his age not to know exactly what he wants to do yet. Not sure of all the responses saying if he doesn't know what he wants to do, don't send him to college. :confused: Yeah, a lot of kids are on the 5 or 6 year plan and still "wandering", but your guy is 18. Also, the ambivalence about needing to help on the farm, and possibly his sense of what you could afford may have kept him from being able to dream in a way that suited him, hence the lack of "inspiration" academically. What's the point if there is no goal? A small incident from when I was growing up: my parents were well-off, but my dad was always talking about how we shouldn't be spending so much money on this and that, etc. So when our advanced French class had a trip to France scheduled, I never even told my parents about it. I just assumed we couldn't afford it. My younger sister asked 2 years later and my parents paid--no problem. Now that I'm an adult, I realize that my dad was trying to be thrifty but had plenty of $$ and would eagerly have spent it on me. I just share that to say that your ds's perceptions of your finances may have been influencing his decisions all along.

 

I've recently read that there are studies that show that kids do better in schools where their peers are academically equal to or above them--they are actually more likely to drop out of a school where they're the top % and the kids under them aren't as motivated. It's a peer group influence of sorts, and kids seem to do better with challenges.

 

I do understand about the farm thing. My family had farmed a certain tract of land in PA since the Quakers came over. My dad was the first male to go to college and was supported in that by his father. However, he was expected to go on weekends to help milk the cows once he moved back to the area and got married. My mother put a stop to that late into her first pregnancy.:tongue_smilie: But the pull back toward the farm is very strong. The farm got sold when I was a teenager because an aunt who didn't work it wanted her share of it and the two brothers couldn't agree on how to split it. It still hurts me to drive by it and I never lived there.

 

Since ds won't be able to be a dairy farmer, it does seem like the right thing to do to help him get his wings and move on from that lifestyle. I do understand that it will be hard for all of you. :grouphug: I think your mama instincts are good.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Laurie4b

[Renee in NC]

It sounds like you want him to go and that he wants to go.

 

Would your mom help with finances since she suggested this?

 

I would google around for scholarships for farm kids. A lot of scholarships are very specialized and there might be some out there for guys like him. Financial aid from the school is also a possibility.

 

It's not all that unusual for a guy his age not to know exactly what he wants to do yet. Not sure of all the responses saying if he doesn't know what he wants to do, don't send him to college. :confused: Yeah, a lot of kids are on the 5 or 6 year plan and still "wandering", but your guy is 18.

 

I've recently read that there are studies that show that kids do better in schools where their peers are academically equal to or above them--they are actually more likely to drop out of a school where they're the top % and the kids under them aren't as motivated. It's a peer group influence of sorts, and kids seem to do better with challenges.

 

I think it is practicality. I don't have $15,000 (nor could I borrow it if I wanted to) to send my child off for 3-4 months so they can try somethine out. I wouldn't recommend my child to take on that much debt either to see if he likes it.

[Liza Q]

Another approach....He should apply for aid. If there is none (or, more likely, not enough) available, could he ask them to defer his entrance for a year? He could spend the next year (after he finishes the AA this summer, if possible) working. Even if he still needs to put in 30 hours on the farm, if he can work 30-40 hours at the best job he can find and save, save, save. By January he will have had several months to think about whether this school is something he really wants to try. He can take a look at his bank account and make a more adult (reasoned, measured, balanced?) decision about loans. If the $15,000. is for one year, he will find himself in debt for a lot more before he finishes!!

 

Most importantly, he will have several months to pray about his future before making such a large decision.

[elegantlion]

He's home from work, and browsing through the degree programs at the Christian school. He's excited about some of the offerings--especially liberal studies and psychology. I guess he didn't realize that some of the jobs connected with those degrees sounded so interesting. His eyes lit up when he was reading about the job opportunities that might arise from those degrees.

 

 

 

:grouphug: Tough decision. He sounds like a wonderful, respectful young man who doesn't want to place undue burden on his family.

 

I'm an frugal person, but I would gladly pay $15k for my son to see his potential. Whether this college opportunity would be for him, only you and your family can figure that out.

[dangermom]

I still don't see why the local state college is not among the choices here?

[Nestof3]

Some more thoughts.

 

Is there a local 4-year university into which he could transfer?

 

Aaron was a a huge blessing to my husband and his business during his middle and high school years, but when he chose to go to college (locally, he still lives at home), we understood that this was his life, and we were all for it. John's work allowed Aaron to save a lot of money and has allowed him to pay for his schooling. John would love to always have Aaron as opposed to some other helper, but that would only be hindering what he wants out of life.

 

For now, he works Tues and Thurs after his classes b/c he gets out at 11:00. This gives him money to pay for car insurance and spending money. He saves a lot by living at home (we don't charge him rent, but we expect him to live by our rules, be respectful and contribute when he can/when we ask to the home -- chores and such). He will also work as much as he can in the summer.

 

Right now, he is planning a one-week hike on the Appalachian Trail as soon as school ends and before he starts summer classes and work.

[Julie in CA]

I still don't see why the local state college is not among the choices here?

A few reasons--it still doesn't have the spiritual aspect that is a key component for this particular young man. In seeing the fields that seem to be sparking his interests at the Christian college, I don't think a secular university could fill the same purpose. The perspective on psychology and/or counseling will be different from the two schools, and that seems to be what really "clicked" for him.

 

Also, although there has been a concerted effort to lessen the "partying" aspect of Chico State U, it's still more prevalent at Chico State than at most other schools.

 

And the biggest reason of all...he'd probably still live and work at home, since CSU is only 30 minutes away. It's not quite far enough removed from family/farm life to accomplish the going away to be more independent/autonomous aspect.

 

Our plan has always been that our kids would go to the community college, and then a state U if they wanted to go further. I'm just seeing some problems with that plan now, and some ways that it might not be the cookie-cutter response for each of our dc. Honestly, we just were very short-sighted to have assumed that in the first place. :glare:

[OrganicAnn]

I know you indicated that the UPS job wasn't available right now, but I wanted to make a few points about most UPS jobs. Many are part-time and many are shifts with odd hours. Your friend may not realize, but your son may only be able to get a job from something like 11 at night to 3 in the morning. The insurance is very good. The problem with some of these jobs is that they are fairly good jobs, but sometimes never amount to a career just a job.

[PinkInTheBlue]

Entirely my opinion of course, but I just don't taking on a $15,000 load to *see* if your son likes it is a good idea. I just can't imagine that personally. Would you be prepared to take on $30,000 or more per year after that if he liked it? If he continues there for 2 more years would that be $60,000 on you?

 

All that is just me though. :) I know your family will make the right decision for you.

[Aubrey]

Living at home was so hard for me while I was in school that I moved to the dorms even though that was *very* close to home. My family was full of drama, & I've always been everybody's ear. To "afford" the dorms, I had to quit driving, & that was such a relief--I was less available to certain needy people.

 

I've always known what I wanted to do--write, hs my kids. I did not get good counsel on this at any school I went to. I attended one cc, 3 state schools, & 2 private schools, 1 of which was non-accredited. The one from which I graduated was *completely* different from the others. My classmates intimidated me there (the private university), whereas my profs at the other schools were *painfully* ignorant. I wish I could think of a politer way to say that, but there it is.

 

The private school made me WORK, & I wanted to. I wanted to impress my profs, I wanted to LEARN. I could have slept thr classes at the other schools & gotten As.

 

Dh & I combined have enough student loan debt that we could have bought a house instead. We have enough debt that I'm surprised we were able to buy a house, & when I realized how much it was, I thought I'd never be able to stay home w/ the kids. Honestly? We can't afford for me to do so.

 

All of that is to say, I understand. For me, the private school was not about faith--it was a different faith from mine anyway--it was about academic excellence & *finally* finding a place in the world for people like me. I didn't make friends there--we were all too busy studying. But I was in many ways less lonely than I'd ever been.

 

Dh was failing classes at the easy state u. I convinced him that it was because he was bored. After we married, he attended the private u w/ me for a semester. We couldn't afford more than that--I had a scholarship, & he didn't. That one semester inspired him, though. He made the dean's list & had to work for it. He went on to graduate summa cum laude from a different state u.

 

If I had it to do over? I can't imagine not going to UD. I needed to be there. But I'd work to find a way to do it smarter, because the debt is too much. Our situation was a little different, though, since we married & had kids while still in school. We have 3 degrees to show for the $. :tongue_smilie: I wish I could return the teaching degree many days, but in applying to Malaysia, I realized how much I'd actually learned in it, for whatever that's worth.

 

So I haven't answered your question. My feeling is that he needs to go. And...it might really be "needs." The $ needs to be dealt w/ in a smart way, though. Don't just take out loans. Find $, talk to the college, talk to your mom. Don't nec forego loans, either, just make sure to talk through what that will mean. They make you watch videos that say over & over again that you have to pay the loans back (ie "loan counseling") but nobody ever makes you look at how much you've borrowed & how much you'll owe in the end. That's important.

 

I also think that for people who don't know what they want to do, looking at things from the other way around can be helpful. What kind of life do you want to live? Do you want your wife to be able to stay home w/ the kids? What size family/house do you want? Help them to see what kind of income expectations they've got, even if they *think* they don't have any. Then help them to see what kind of career will meet those expectations. Besides $, it's also important to talk about what kinds of hrs the individual expects to work & his level of family involvement.

 

I *so* wish someone had had these conversations w/ dh & I when we were young. W/ us, it was just GO TO COLLEGE. That was supposed to be the magic pill. :lol:

 

GL to you & ds. :grouphug:

[Crimson Wife]

Entirely my opinion of course, but I just don't taking on a $15,000 load to *see* if your son likes it is a good idea. I just can't imagine that personally. Would you be prepared to take on $30,000 or more per year after that if he liked it? If he continues there for 2 more years would that be $60,000 on you?

 

All that is just me though. :) I know your family will make the right decision for you.

 

:iagree:

And I hate to say it, but psychology/counseling is one of those fields where it's hard to make a decent living unless the student gets a Master's or PhD. Psychology majors always are on the bottom of list of the average starting salaries for new college graduates.

 

It might be worth taking on $60k worth of debt for a lucrative degree but psychology isn't one of them.

 

If Chico State is too close to escape the farm chores, what about Humboldt State, Sonoma State, or Sacramento State?

[Aggie]

Being from a ranching family, I can see the conundrum here.

 

Like Jessica asked, do you have plans for the next semesters if the first one work out well?

 

15K is a lot to spend on a one semester experiment, but 60k is quite a chunk, too!

 

Would y'all consider another Christian university?

 

I read this entire thread earlier and now can't remember...did someone suggest ds taking a test to help determine interests/abilities? It might give him some direction.

 

Our step-nephew works for FedEX or UPS, makes good money, and gets reimbursed for his classes. Got his entire degree paid for.:001_smile:

[Julie in CA]

Being from a ranching family, I can see the conundrum here.

 

Like Jessica asked, do you have plans for the next semesters if the first one work out well?

 

15K is a lot to spend on a one semester experiment, but 60k is quite a chunk, too!

 

Actually, I knew we'd lost money in farming for '09, but I actually went and checked just now. Incredibly, amongst all of the huge numbers on the forms, I found that our adjusted gross income is a teeny-tiny number far, far below the poverty level for our size of family. :001_huh: Financial aid is now a very, very strong possibility. That could change the picture on this...

[RanchGirl]

There's got to be a third option here -- a $30k per year private college can't be the only way to find oneself. What about interning or volunteering in the field in which he thinks he might be interested? He could do that and take a few classes (online or at state college) and work part-time at UPS over the holidays and start really figuring things out for himself. Reading a description in a brochure my mom handed me isn't the same as finding a passion, researching options, and coming up with a plan; and I would personally prefer the latter from my kids if they are considering taking on debt or asking me for $60k.

 

Particularly a liberal arts/psychology major -- the degree may be amazing but I would want to know what the plan is for a specific job upon graduation. If two years from now he has a boatload of debt but still ends up working at UPS because he still needs a masters to get a decent job in his field, that would be frustrating.

 

If you let your dh know that it's either $30k outlay for the next year to let ds "find himself" or cut the farm chores down to 5 hours a week to allow ds time to find his passion -- if dh is a typical pragmatic farmer, he might get on board!

 

By the way, UPS has great benefits even for part-timers, but I know two men with families who got burned working there after putting in many years and working their way up the ladder to having their own routes. One had to quit due to a back injury on the job that ended his career (with no disability benefits), and one left due to a car accident that wasn't his fault but a child died and UPS fired him. The details are hazy now, this was a few years ago -- but the take-away for me was that UPS is not a guaranteed life long career.

[LibraryLover]

Actually, I knew we'd lost money in farming for '09, but I actually went and checked just now. Incredibly, amongst all of the huge numbers on the forms, I found that our adjusted gross income is a teeny-tiny number far, far below the poverty level for our size of family. :001_huh: Financial aid is now a very, very strong possibility. That could change the picture on this...

 

 

That is bad in one way (and I am sorry) , but good in another (which is really good). I might even think about schools out of CA. Geographic diversity is very important to colleges & unis. Of course, it's harder to pay for them to come home at breaks...but if you could get a free, or nearly -free ride somewhere, it might be worth considering.

 

I would rather a person face some college debt, even if higher ed doesn't pan out exactly as one hoped, as considering various life options is valuable! So while I understand why people would be angry at going into debt and not having a fab paying job right off (or ever), it's also true that most people who do explore educational and life options don't usually have regrets that they checked out the world past their comfort zones.

 

No dept is awesome, yet there is also a price to pay going through through life feeling dissapointed that certain educational possibilites were missed. What If's are terrible life stressors.

Edited April 23, 2010 by LibraryLover