Why do people homeschool their dc if they don't know the material or care to know it?

[Donna T.]

On several recent occassions, I've had a non-homeschooling friend tell me about a homeschooling family (different friends, different families) that they know who are not teaching their kids. The "reasons" ranged from the mother's bout with depression to the fact that they just plugged the kids into the computer for some type of on-line program. When this happens, I do cringe a bit. I keep reminding the same folks over and over that every homeschooling family is different, we don't really know exactly what is going on in any given situation... blah blah blah. The fact is, I'm becoming increasingly bothered by these kinds of conversations. So, I nip them in the bud as quickly as possible. Try to avoid them all together when possible.

 

I relate to your frustration Michelle. I really do. However, I want my kids to be self-learners. My oldest son is on "cloud nine" right now. He has progressed to reading whole words in Greek. I've managed to learn the alphabet and the sounds but still scratch my head at words. He is so proud of himself. I'm not going to hold him back while I muddle through when we really do have good material choices in that area. There are curricula available to us that enable some children to learn some things that we wouldn't otherwise be able to teach.

 

I want my kids to know MORE about everything than I do. My oldest son, in particular, is a book worm. There are many subjects that he knows ALOT more than I do about. I never studied astronomy in depth, but he has. I never even studied botany in depth, but he has. He amazes me with his knowledge and it's all because he devours books. Does that not count as education? He has learned so much in areas that have not required a lecture from me. It does irritate me to hear of parents who keep their kids home because, really, they just don't want the hassle of doing otherwise. But, I can't say how many families fall into that. When I hear these "reports" of other families I always consider that I'm getting a 3rd party's report. I've never had a homeschooling parent tell me they aren't teaching their kids. I'm sure some aren't. That's bad for their kids but I am so thankful for material that helps a child to learn on their own. It absolutely is possible to enrich our kids' educations beyond what we have experienced for ourselves.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Donna T.

[Brindee]

I think that's a very fair question to ask.

But I wouldn't assume that everyone who doesn't know (or master) the material doesn't care.

For some of us, we are doing the best we can. I can not spend what little free time I have while the kids are in younger, preparing for high school level math, science, and english. And just because I don't know the material doesn't mean I can't help. When my child asks a question that I can't answer I say "I don't know, let's find out together." I'm not all knowing, no teacher is.

Like many homeschooling parents I have a love of learning, I keep that passion active, my children see me pursuing information and new experiences.

I hope that these things propel my kids to be fearless in self education for the rest of their lives.

I use TT, for now it's working wonderfully mostly because my 5th grader is self motivated, if she gets stuck she asks for help, we find an answer (even if it means running across the street to a friends for help :)).

My daughters already know I have limits. I'm not even supposed to go outside during the day. They know I can't do it all, that I don't know it all. That's important to know about your parents, and people in general.

 

I'm battling the effects of Lupus everyday, unfortunately it wants to turn my brain to goo. Do I have the right to homeschool if I struggle many mornings with basic math? I ask myself how will I manage high school? Am I doing a disservice to my children? Well now both of my girls have developed Tourette syndrome! Now I really don't think I'd put them in school.

I'm not telling you this for pity, I'm telling you because, some of us have to be grateful for "second rate" TT kind of curriculum. It allows us to carry on, despite all of the obstacles. I know there are tons of other parents out there in similar situations.

 

I may be miss-reading your post? But that's the kind of thinking that also makes me a little embarrassed to post here, because for all of the spelling and grammar mistakes I make, you could say "how can you homeschool your kids through high school if you can't even write out a proper post on WTM?". My brain has been compromised, but I pull my resources and keep trying. I use spell check, I use TT, I do what I can. That's going to have to be good enough for my family.

:001_smile: Great comments! :thumbup:

[Night Elf]

I don't understand it! The dc teaching themselves doesn't CUT it! :svengo:

 

Aww... It may not work for you but we all have the right to choose how to parent our children, and education falls under the parenting category, IMHO. FWIW, I would be one of the people you likely think should not be a parent educator. My children learn on their own, likely because my ability to homeschool/teach has been questionable over the past 9 years. Goodness knows I tried. But my children are still WAY better off than being in public school. Yes, they've even struggled with some things. I finally figured out that no amount of coercion on my part was going to make them learn. My opinion is that learning happens when it happens. Sometimes they dropped the frustrating material, only to pick it up easily later on. Sometimes they haven't gone back to it at all. There are things that other parents think their children ought to learn under any circumstances. I'm not one of those parents.

 

 

Do the online teachers have office hours to help struggling students IF the parent can't help? :confused: :toetap05:

 

It depends on the program. The teachers my children have with our online program, Keystone, have been very helpful when my children wanted help.

[Carrie12345]

-

Edited January 14, 2010 by Carrie1234
Nothing to see here!

[VaKim]

Well, I do know the material, and what I don't, I learn right along with them. But even if I didn't, I'd still homeschool, because as a Christian, I firmly believe there are many, many things more important than academics. (I think that is probably illegal to say here.)

[calandalsmom]

TT is not a second rate progam and people using it are not second rate parents or second rate homeschoolers and it is just ridiculous and self congratulatory to continue this.

[Melanie]

My children teach themselves math, and my son is teaching himself Latin as well. One should not assume that this is because I am incapable or negligent. I am neither.

 

I agree that having a passionate expert in his or her field to privately tutor my children in every subject would be lovely, but frankly, if my children were incapable of reading and understanding a lesson in a textbook without help, I would be concerned.

[Michelle in AL]

Hi Michelle, I think I know where you're coming from and can see a little of what you're frustrated in popping up in myself; I can't possibly know all subjects, so why do I continue to homeschool?

 

My oldest is in high school as I see your oldest is. Our only option for school is Alabama public school (no privates around). I did very well keeping up with all subjects through middle school, although I certainly wasn't a master probably at any of them :001_huh: What I delude myself into believing is that I have a passion for learning and for finding the best possible programs for my children. I do the best to teach them well and how to discover information we don't know.

 

This method might inferior. It'll be awhile before I find out the results and I'll never know how our method compares to traditional schooling.

 

When high school arrived there was NO way I could come close to mastering everything: foreign lang, multiple science disciplines, higher maths etc., so I chose a couple courses to focus on. The important classes I delegate to online classes. A couple classes that I deem extraneous I let them self study with my assistance.

 

Advantages of online classes: the teachers we have encountered have been passionate about their subject and project that to the students. This is equivalent to having an enthusiastic teacher in class that is able to motivate her students to reach further. I've not had one who wasn't available via email the same day we needed help. With math, the teacher offers to meet online in a room with a whiteboard so he can review with you.

 

The student still gets to learn how to deal with a variety of teacher expectations and personalities, as the school student would.

 

Cons of online classes: May not meet often enough when needing extra assistance. We've never not had enough class time in our experience, except when dd was texting too much in class and therefore didn't pay attention :001_huh:

 

So yeah, I might be one of the moms that isn't able to learn everything. I may have made the wrong decision, but I feel strongly enough to feel that in our situation this it was the best one.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I agree. So many homeschoolers are led astray by the common homeschool-guru mantra of, "at least it's better than public school." It is a lie that the least homeschool efforts are still better than public school. I meet more and more homeschoolers each year who send a dc to public school and are shocked to learn that they are struggling to keep up with their ps classmates, because the parents were assured by other homeschoolers, magazines, and books that a very relaxed homeschooling program was still ahead of the public school curriculum.

 

I agree with this as well. I don't think "any" school is better than public school. I have family that work in the public school system that have horror stories of homeschool children that are grades below their peers.

I don't think it is snobbery for the OP to write that she is frustrated. I brought my children home to teach them. I was tired of the public school teachers just going through the motions. I am not talking about Algebra and Geometry or Biology or higher level high school courses. I am talking about in low grades. I want to see the light in my children's eyes when they learn something new.

But, I also understand the necessary evil of someone with more knowledge or maybe just someone that is more mathematically inclined, or mechanically inclined, or such would be better in some instances.

Last night, my husband did the science project with the girls. We were magnetizing a bolt. We had copper wire, a d battery, and a bolt. Well, it wouldn't work so my husband gets out a voltage meter and checks the battery then we lined up 2 d batteries, still no magnetization, tried 3 and 4 each time checking the voltage. Finally, he looks at the bolt I provided and says that he thinks it is stainless steel and therefore can't be magnetized. So he goes out to his work truck brings back in a screw and magnetizes with one d battery. Then he shows them 4 d batteries will make it stronger and they pick up more paper clips each time. Then he shows them that with the nail wrapped in the wire (coiled around the nail) and the wired taped to the negative that when you touch the positive the nail will be magnetized and pick up clips then he lets go of the positive and the clips fall. So he taught them about circuits, voltage, different metals being magnetic and lots more in one science experiment. I would have given up after the bolt didn't work and just read what was supposed to have happened if I would have ran the experiment. Lucky for me, dh is an electrician who is both mathematically, mechanically, and science inclined.

If I didn't have dh, I might would be using a dvd or computer program to show these experiments to the kids. I normally do the "book" parts of our science and dh does the "fun" parts. I always learn something from him as well. I don't think all of us have electricians or chemists or mathematicians handy to help out when we just simply don't have all the answers.

I think that those programs can help a homeschool mom/dad to be a better teacher. I don't think most homeschool parents just leave the child to the dvd or computer program and I think most learn along with their kids. I know the foggy cobwebs in my head are getting dusted off just this year with my 4th grader.

I don't get frustrated unless I know of a particular personal situation where it is obvious the children are just being neglected or left to their own devices completely.

[Natalieclare]

Well, do you mean all of the material or only some? I say this because I have a dd who studies some things I don't know and she prefers to self teach. She preferred that even when she was 8 and I knew everything she was learning. She's in high school now.

 

In our case, the why is because ps was not working for her, and my sitting down and teaching her was not going to work, either. She's doing very well in many areas and some of her subjects are definitely honours level. I wanted to learn Geometry to help her but didn't have time. The times she's been totally stumped I've gone to the high school forum for help, or the author of her text, or else one of my kid brothers (well, him mostly for some extra challenging Algebraic stuff in the Extra for Experts and something with Phsyics.)

 

I have three dc, and how much I need to teach/help each one has varied with their learning styles and the subjects. That said, my dc don't generally struggle with academics, although each of them has had things that they needed serious help with (long division for two of them, for example.)

 

The proof is in the pudding, is what I say. Yes, it's possible for dc educated this way to be educationally neglected. Yes, there have been intense periods in our lives where that has happened to one or more of my dc for a time, but ps is not a good option for any of them, and when things level out, we get back to stricter oversight, etc. All of my dc are ahead of the curve in reading, reading comprehension, math, etc.

 

However, this is only our story. Every family is different, and I can think of homeschooling families that aren't necessarily getting what I consider a strong education even though they have much closer one on one teaching.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

This is our family, too. My oldest really wanted to study art history this year...a subject I know NOTHING about and really don't care too much about. (sorry, I'm a philistine!) She likes to tell me what she is learning, and that I do find interesting. Based on that, I give her assignments and such. She and my second daughter are extremely independent and self-motivated. We are all delighted with what and how they are learning. (And their PSAT scores are pretty hot as well.)

 

My son, on the other hand, needs me by his side for all his subjects. I know I have to be ahead of him in... everything that doesn't interest him. Now, if he's learning about guns, ordinance, caliber, catapults, etc, he seems to do just fine at independent learning!

 

So, our experience has not lead us to believe that homeschooling requires a parent to know all the material covered in order for it to be a successful endeavor. This is not to say we don't utilized outside resources when I deem it necessary: I have outsourced writing classes because writing causes me stress. And my dd will take chemistry from the community college.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Smarter?? Well, yes, he has a much higher IQ than me. :D

 

Anyhow, I haven't done fractions or decimals for decades, so I don't remember it. I could easily re-learn it. I honestly don't think I ever learned some of the grammar in R&S 5. My daughter will probably need more help than my son, so I am sure I will be learning it all soon enough. My point is that, imho, I think your judgements about self learning are wrong.

 

 

 

I can see self learning. My ds learns many things in his spare time;) OTOH I also believe that the teaching parent or some other sort of teacher as in online classes should oversee and ensure that learning is occurring. I also believe that the work should be corrected by the parents or teacher to ensure that the work is being done correctly IMHO. I have no problem using teaching DVDs or programs or online classes, but I still think there needs to be parental oversight IMO. I just think that sometimes kids will be kids or that sometimes the children will not actually be understanding the school work.

 

My 2 cents:)

[Colleen]

 

That would depend on the student and the subject. I have witnessed self-instruction work extremely well.

Right. Discussions/arguments as to the "right" and/or "better" way to homeschool tend to ignore the variances in situations, subjects, and students.

Those we have used (The Potter's School and Memoria Press--both for Latin) certainly do have teachers available by chat and/or email as well as discussion boards when students need extra assistance.

That's good to know.

Yes, Michelle, many online courses offer abundant instructional resources for students. You didn't realize that?

 

[GWOB]

Right. Discussions/arguments as to the "right" and/or "better" way to homeschool tend to ignore the variances in situations, subjects, and students.

 

:iagree:That pretty much sums it up.

[MIch elle]

Against my better judgment, I will wade into this discussion.

 

OP, I don't know you, though I am sure you are a lovely lady who is doing your best to educate your dc the best way you know how, but I am afraid you did come across as condescending to those who do not homeschool according to your standards. I would bet that was not your intention, but that was the vibe I got.

 

Honestly, I am sick and tired of this argument. I am constantly questioned by non-homeschooler. "Are you smart enough to homeschool?" "Do you honestly think you can teach your child EVERYTHING?" "Wow! You must be really smart to homeschool!" Now I see an argument by a fellow homeschooler that there are hs moms out there who are essentially not smart enough to teach their own children. OP, I am sure you were frustrated by one specific example, but unfortunately you hit a nerve.

 

I think this argument boils down to people being "smart enough" to homeschool. And it will offend people. It offends me when non-homeschoolers bring up the issue, and it is hurtful when other hsers bring up the issue. Who cares if I am smart enough? I love my kids wholeheartedly and will do WHATEVER it takes to give them a good education. If I have to outsource, so be it. That is my choice as a mother.

 

Sorry if I sound agitated. I am under-caffeinated. And OP, sorry if I picked on you.

 

It's valid if education is important whether it's home education or public/private or any combo.

 

I don't feel picked on, and I'm not trying to be condescending. I'm voicing my opinion and I KNOW that others will disagree with me - I've been on these boards long enough to know better! :tongue_smilie:

 

You are willing to do WHATEVER it takes to provide your dc with a good education and that is what is needed, not to know everything. No, it's not being "smart" enough, it's the willingness to LEARN with your dc as needed to help them or get them the help that they need.

[MIch elle]

I agree. So many homeschoolers are led astray by the common homeschool-guru mantra of, "at least it's better than public school." It is a lie that the least homeschool efforts are still better than public school. I meet more and more homeschoolers each year who send a dc to public school and are shocked to learn that they are struggling to keep up with their ps classmates, because the parents were assured by other homeschoolers, magazines, and books that a very relaxed homeschooling program was still ahead of the public school curriculum.

 

 

:iagree: It's sad!

[Daisy]

Why do people homeschool their dc if they don't know the material or care to know it?

I don't understand it! The dc teaching themselves doesn't CUT it!

 

The first statement I completely totally 100% agree with. I think it is vitally important that parents be involved in the education of their children. If you are bringing them home and then don't know what they are learning and don't CARE to know, then yeah, I'm going to form some opinions about your homeschooling. There is no reason why a parent cannot continue to learn alongside of their children. They don't have to know every bit of it but as I've heard other posters mention, at least be able to engage with your children over the material.

 

However, the second statement doesn't have to go with the first. Parents can utilize self-teaching as a method and it works well with some children. That doesn't automatically mean the parent doesn't care and doesn't have a clue. Self-teaching works to a certain degree and with certain subjects in our home. I find my children learn better when I am familiar with the material and engage them in conversations about it, regardless of what method we used to "teach" the material.

 

Parents have a responsibility. Homeschooling is your job. That means treat it like one.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Daisy

[MIch elle]

One of the reasons I love homeschool? I'm learning right along beside my children (ex: Latin). I'm filling gaps and dusting off my brain cells. :thumbup1:

:D

[Pretty in Pink]

I did not read all six pages of this thread...

 

One of my goals in homeschooling is to raise young men who are able to work independently. It's quite a useful skill. My oldest ds works independently (with guidance as necessary). We 'meet' formally twice per week to review his work and we do grammar together three times per week. He works independently on his other subjects and comes to me with questions. He is a very bright child and works at or above grade level in every subject.

 

As a public school student I learned in much the same fashion as my son. I was placed in an independent study program in elementary school and I excelled. I now take online courses and am grateful that I am experienced at working independently.

 

Homeschooling looks so different in each family. I don't learn every single thing that my (oldest) child learns each week. I do not pre-read all of his books. I read my teacher's notes and am able to assist him when he needs it.

 

Homeschooling is a trade-off of sorts; with all of the advantages that I see there is the disadvantage that I am almost a 'Jack of all trades, master of none (or few)." I have an extensive background in music and can teach it with no help whatsoever, but there is no way I will ever know as much biology, chemistry, latin, grammar, calculus, art, history, etc., etc., etc. as all of the different teachers in a traditional school put together.

 

I've honestly never met a single homeschooling parent who just turned their students loose with a curriculum and made absolutely no effort to make sure the kids were learning.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

If my kids still need me to teach them everything by the time they reach high school, I will feel that I didn't do a very good job homeschooling them. My aim is to teach them how to learn on their own, not just how to be taught by others. I don't expect that I will know all the material they learn, and I am fine with that.

 

Tara

 

I think that is a great goal and I hope to do it as well. I still think there needs to be some oversight such as ensuring the lessons are completed in a timely fashion and checking the work done for each lesson for correctness even in the case of using DVD or online instruction. I do not think I need to be an expert on everything for him and hope to use online, in-person, or DVD instruction in those situations.:)

 

To clarify: I also hope to learn or re-learn as much as possible, but I also realize that using other resources at times is also good. I also hope to see him eager to learn as he is now:)

Edited January 14, 2010 by priscilla

[GWOB]

It's valid if education is important whether it's home education or public/private or any combo.

 

I don't feel picked on, and I'm not trying to be condescending. I'm voicing my opinion and I KNOW that others will disagree with me - I've been on these boards long enough to know better! :tongue_smilie:

 

You are willing to do WHATEVER it takes to provide your dc with a good education and that is what is needed, not to know everything. No, it's not being "smart" enough, it's the willingness to LEARN with your dc as needed to help them or get them the help that they need.

 

Some parents may feel like TT IS getting their dc the help they need. I use CLE math because the instructions are in the worktext. Am I inferior? I made the choice because my way of explaining math was just not working for dd. I check her work, but I don't spend a whole heck of a lot of time teaching CLE math. I have two other dc to worry about. I use the LfC DVDs. Does that make me a slacker? I have goals in mind. I want my kids to learn Latin. I am doing MY best to meet MY goals for MY kids. Honestly, I think 99.9% of us are doing the same thing. We may go about it completely differently. You may call it a to-MAY-to, while I may call it a to-MAH-to. It is still a tomato.

[MIch elle]

Yes, we're mostly old fogies here. We are allowed opinions. I haven't stated mine. Only about mean tags.

 

:iagree:

 

It's my opinion - take it or leave it.

 

Why did I start this when we've been 'round and 'round this discussion before? :tongue_smilie:

 

RIA - where are you when I could use a little back-up?? :lol:

[Storm Bay]

I agree. So many homeschoolers are led astray by the common homeschool-guru mantra of, "at least it's better than public school." It is a lie that the least homeschool efforts are still better than public school. I meet more and more homeschoolers each year who send a dc to public school and are shocked to learn that they are struggling to keep up with their ps classmates, because the parents were assured by other homeschoolers, magazines, and books that a very relaxed homeschooling program was still ahead of the public school curriculum.

 

 

Very good point. Homeschoolers are a varied group just like public schoolers. While not every homeschooler is doing an adequate job, I can find examples of well educated kids even amongst unschoolers, and I personally don't espouse unschooling unless you have a highly motivated dc.

[Night Elf]

You are willing to do WHATEVER it takes to provide your dc with a good education and that is what is needed, not to know everything.

 

But are you willing to concede that someone's idea of WHATEVER may be to allow their children to self-educate? I actually consider the things my children have learned on their own to be the most important education for them. I believe self-learned knowledge is usually relevant to one's life. Then again, I don't believe education is only defined by academics, and perhaps that is true for all of us on this board? Maybe? It might be interesting to start a different thread about things we have been forced to learn and found we needed, and things we have been forced to learn that we have not needed. My guess is that will have lots of different answers as well.

 

Interesting topic though. :bigear:

 

Oh, which reminds me. My son began his high school courses a couple of months ago. He's only enrolled in two but they are so stupid. :( His geography course is so boring! And he has two web quests that are writing assignments in Algebra. Dumb and dumber! And we have like 19 more credits to go. :ack2:

[Storm Bay]

The problem is, this assumes that you know who the people on the board are. With few exceptions, I don't remember any certain posters as being any certain posters. I don't read someone's post and "know" who they are or remember what they have written in the past. Most of the people on TWTM are, to me, just random people posting things (and I expect that I am just as random to pretty much everyone else here).

 

While we should all try to extend some grace to people, counting on others to know who you are or why you've said something or what you're like isn't realistic. People will react to the words, tone, and attitude far more than they will who said it (imo).

 

Tara

 

 

Correct, what I said is not realistic, which is sad. Our culture tends to be quick to react. It's often better to be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger but it's not easy to do. Had this thread been started by someone I didn't know, I wouldn't have even read it, and that comes from experience. Also, age is often a big factor, and I wouldn't have been nearly so gracious 15 or 20 years ago. Diplomacy has come much easier to me in my post-40 years, although IRL it can be harder than on the forum.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I don't think it's the best way to educate elementary aged kids in the 3 R's....but to each their own.

As for me...(I) Don't know much about history.....

 

:iagree:

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

:iagree:

 

It's my opinion - take it or leave it.

 

Why did I start this when we've been 'round and 'round this discussion before? :tongue_smilie:

 

RIA - where are you when I could use a little back-up?? :lol:

 

I'm not sure we've all been 'round and 'round this particular angle of the discussion before.

 

I've read the threads about unschooling vs. rigorous schooling, but I don't think I've yet been a witness to a lament about the inferiority of the homeschooling parent.

 

I've read about parents who won't do it. The OP seems to be about parents who are homeschooling even though they themselves are not as well-educated as others. In other words, it seemed to be about parents who can't do it and therefore shouldn't do it.

 

Or did I misinterpret?

[Diane65]

I have to post on this. We are experiencing a very difficult period in our HS path at this time. Many, interruptions and the age related resistance to staying on task.

 

Having said that, I took my child out because she has a DX of ADHD. I am not into titles or excuses, but I have a student for whom distractions of any kind, simply stop the learning process.

 

In 4 1/2 years in an excellent charter school, she progressed in math and other subjects, only to the degree that she was taught at home doing homework.

 

I resisted the removal from this school for that long due to it's reputation. I began to HS and in a very short time, she progressed in every subject, to at least, grade level and in math and science from multiplication, to mastering pre algebra within three to four months. She has amazing retention skills and learns so quickly, that without distractions she really pops.

 

So, HS for her is the only way to go. I will consider returning by 9th grade or more likely, local community college classes by 10th grade.

 

That is why I home school.

[creekland]

I haven't read the previous pages, but I can answer the original question... I think middle and high school aged kids that mostly self-learn end up being better educated and better prepared for college.

 

I pulled my own from ps when they had finished 8th, 6th, and 4th grades respectively. They are now in 12th, 10th, and 8th and I've done very little teaching. We (hubby and I) grade and do discussions plus I select curricula and/or books to read for them - they self select some of those too, but that's it. When they get stuck, we help them or show them where to find an answer, but that's rare.

 

My oldest tested in the top 3% on the ACT and is being highly recruited by many colleges. He did better in practice tests, but I didn't feel the need to have him take the ACT more than once.

 

My middle son is likely to be higher.

 

My youngest is smarter academically than most (if not all) of his ps peers. He'll do well too, but we haven't done any testing with him yet. This year PA requires a standardized test... I'm not too worried.

 

I don't think we've done them any harm. Look at many of the famous people in academic history - George Washington Carver, Edison, etc. They were mostly or totally self-taught.

[mrs.m]

Do the online teachers have office hours to help struggling students IF the parent can't help? :confused: :toetap05:

 

First, I am partly in agreement with you, my 1st grader needs my help. But I think children should have some independence as they get older. And it also depends on the child.

 

And, yes, when we did online schooling the teachers did have office hours that the students could call and sometimes my DD prefered that to asking me. They often have an online white board to practice work on.

[Hen]

Quad Shot Academy said:

I never had a teacher give me extra help after elementary school.

 

I would almost echo this. I only had 1 teacher ever stay after to help me, this was for Algebra 1. He did a great thing...but the extra help I got from him, looking back, is equal to any extra help I could give any of my kids. It was the gift of time, and helping me work through the problems till I got it. I can do that with my kids, even though I am using Math U See, and even though I am not the strongest in math. Having gone all the way through Algebra Trig, and Geometry..I think it will be a while before I will be stumped in anything tho. I do have to sit down for a spell and re-learn how to do an equation sometimes, but then it comes back.

 

I have 5 students, I'm spread a little thin..so Math U See and TT are godsends for me. I am equal to the work, but I have to choose wisely how to spread myself.

[Storm Bay]

:iagree:

 

 

RIA - where are you when I could use a little back-up?? :lol:

:tongue_smilie: Ria used to drive me crazy when I ws going through some heavy stuff in my life and really didn't oversee my dc as well as usual, but she made good points.

 

One hard lesson I've learned is to take things out of arguments even if I don't always agree. Everyone of us can do better, since none of us is perfect, and Ria did help me do better even if I never came around do homeschooling the way she did.

 

None of you knew me when I was young, but I was rash, highly opinionated (okay, I'm still a woman of strong opinions), easily offended, very argumentative (because I wanted to be right, not because I like to argue), etc. It has taken me many years to learn to be more diplomatic and to try and see both sides of an argument. It's much easier to do it online. The reason I seldom venture onto the General Forum anymore is because the threads can get so long and involved the way this one is getting and I just don't have the time.

 

One of the things that has helped me is that if I get offended by a post, I try to simply walk away and not answer if/when I'm angry. It's the same principle I try to apply in my marriage, too, and it was a very hard lesson for me to learn indeed. Learning to agree to disagree is important, and with homeschooling very important. People will love the math program you abhor. People will hold onto a belief you vehemently disagree with. People will totally not understand the way you homeschool and totally disagree with it. No one is going to like everyone on the forum. That's okay. No one is liked by everyone. Some people will always give advice that contradicts your advice; that's one of the beautiful things about this forum, because your advice just isn't going to work for everyone. Some people are going to complain about someone's dc and you might have dc just like that. Or you might be the one complaining about some dc and offending someone with dc just like that. We need to get over it. Sure, that's not realistic, but it's a goal, isn't it? One isn't truly tolerant if one is offended by someone who isn't tolerant, kwim? I'm not tolerant of everything and don't pretend to be, but I try to follow the board rules to be polite, and try to remember that I can sometimes learn from those I vehemently disagree with on other issues.

[Quad Shot Academy]

OTOH I also believe that the teaching parent or some other sort of teacher as in online classes should oversee and ensure that learning is occurring. I also believe that the work should be corrected by the parents or teacher to ensure that the work is being done correctly IMHO. I have no problem using teaching DVDs or programs or online classes, but I still think there needs to be parental oversight IMO.

 

:iagree:

 

I was going to come back and clarify somethings. Even if I don't know or teach the material, it doesn't mean that I am not actively involved in my kids education. I may not teach the grammar lesson, but I sit here and listen to his answers while checking the answer key. I check all of his work, as he finishes it. I ask questions about what he found difficult, even if he got 100%. I ask him what he learned after his history readings. When he has questions I look the answers up with him. (Oh, I and I realized I do teach spelling, but the lessons are scripted.) I certainly direct his learning as far as what he is studying and what level he is on.

 

I also think that a parent that is raising independent students is not remotely related to a negligent education. In my experience, it is usually the opposite. The parents that use teacher intensive programs or have students that can not work alone, are usually the ones that don't "get around to doing school." No matter what is going on in my life, my independent readers get their schoolwork done.

 

I also agree with Tara, that if I had a highschooler that could not do most of their learning independently, I would feel like I had failed. There was no hand holding in the college I went to and only a handful of teachers that taught anything more than what was in the text.

 

Just to clarify some of the remarks in this thread: For me, having independent students is in no way related to self directed learning or unschooling.

[Kfamily]

While I completely agree that each family and the children within it are unique individuals who should do what works best for them (including some aspects of independent learning), I also think that declaring your family as one who must have independent learners is a slippery slope. I personally know families who will not accept anything less than independent learners and this is sometimes to the detriment of some of their children. I've seen a couple of childrens' self-esteem from these families suffer since they cannot keep up on their own.

I also think it is important to remember that some moms have a lot on their plate and often will choose independent programs based on their needs and not what is best for their child. I know we all teach our children that we, as adults in this world, must do things we don't enjoy. Yet, often the mom who doesn't like math (for example) and doesn't enjoy teaching it will use this subject as the one to expect her child to do on his/her own. I think as homeschoolers we must accept that this is a job as well as a lifestyle and as with any job we must sometimes do things that are not easy or enjoyable for us. That may mean sitting down for an hour long math lesson every day if that is what is best for our child.

I see high school as an entirely different topic. I think that at this level it is almost expected that some or many subjects at one point or another may need outside help. This is not the same to me as being an independent learner. This is just a student studying with another teacher.

Just my humble opinion...:001_smile:

Edited January 14, 2010 by Kfamily

[littlebug42]

I am personally a product of the ps and I can tell you that I had to fight for pretty much everything I learned. I can count on one hand the number of teachers I had throughout 12 years of school that were willing to spend any extra time with me. Mainly because I got good grades, most of my teachers never gave me the time of day.

 

That being said, when the time comes for my children to reach the upper grades, I will seek out help. I took math classes up through trigonometry in high school, did poorly then and that was over 20 years ago. My 8 year old's science knowledge already surpasses mine and to be perfectly honest, I don't really care to know all that she does about it and I don't think that I have to know all that she does. I know when to get her the help she needs and I know where to seek it out.

 

It frustrates me when not only do we have to fight non-homeschoolers to defend the way we school our children but we have to defend ourselves within the homeschooling community when really it is no one's business but our own. If you choose not to use TT or whatever other program that works for many others, that is great for you. Others need to choose a different path for whatever the reasons may be.

[kmacnchs]

I don't understand it! The dc teaching themselves doesn't CUT it! :svengo:

 

Yes, yes, I know there are online courses, etc. but....

 

Do the online teachers have office hours to help struggling students IF the parent can't help? :confused: :toetap05:

 

B/c their child can work independently and is smart enough to figure stuff out. B/c the school system (other option) is HORRIBLE. B/c they are too self-conscious to teach their own child. This is my MIL - she is "homeschooling" my SIL (10th grade now). She finds curriculum that look interesting and challenging and gets them but past that, she never reads a page or grades a paper. At one point my SIL was doing Abeka, Sonlight, and K12 (for 9th grade, I think) AT THE SAME TIME! Kill me now!

[Carrie12345]

Is the suggestion that parents should know (or be actively learning about) EVERY SINGLE subject? Because I have absolutely no plans to learn calc or computer programing or more than a year or two of Latin, and definitely not Chem II, and I guarantee there will be more than a few lit selections that I will skip because they don't interest me in the slightest.

 

I still have no doubt that my kids will do much better in those things at home than they would in school. If there's one thing I'm capable of and interested in, it's choosing solid resources.

[Hen]

I posted earlier that I use Math U See because I am spread thin with 5 students, but that I think I am capable, having gone through math up through Geometry and Alg. Trig...but some of it has to be re-learned for me, and I have other things on my plate. I am there to help.

 

wanted to add, that as far as the parent being qualified, my dh was a math major and is super qualified to teach any math, he works great hours and is home early enough to turn all the math over to him..but, it's not a good thing. the few times we've tried it, tears everywhere, it was not pretty. He's a great dad, I was really shocked at how badly it went.

 

My kids prefer doing Math U See, and when they are stuck, they do not run to highly qualified math person..but they run to mom, who sits down, watches the dvd lesson with them again and then figures it out with them.

 

mileage varies with highly qualified, I think.

[Storm Bay]

While I completely agree that each family and the children within it are unique individuals who should do what works best for them (including some aspects of independent learning), I also think that declaring your family as one who must have independent learners is a slippery slope. ...:001_smile:

 

 

You made some good points in this post. Homeschooling is challenging, and each of us is responsible to find what works best for our dc and for us both. Many times that is going to be a compromise, but if that compromise is the best option available to that dc, then it works well.

 

I think any form of homeschooling can be a slippery slope when the individual needs of each child aren't taken into consideration. But I also think that the needs of the entire family have to be taken into consideration. This, however, would lead into an entirely different discussion, also one that could be highly emotional for many, about who or what should be the centre of the family, etc.

[KidsHappen]

My high schoolers have surpassed me and if they had to wait for me to learn something before teaching them, I would definitely be holding them back. They have both reached a point where they could easily finish their education on their own. I am actually proud of that fact. :001_smile:

[Night Elf]

Parents have a responsibility. Homeschooling is your job. That means treat it like one.

 

Ewww!!! Sorry, I completely disagree. I do not use the word job in my thinking of homeschooling, being a parent, being a homemaker, or being a wife.

[stripe]

Ewww!!! Sorry, I completely disagree. I do not use the word job in my thinking of homeschooling, being a parent, being a homemaker, or being a wife.

What?! You don't wear a uniform when you're on the job? (Adjusting apron straps.) Them's fightin' words! Homemaking is a profession. You need to dress professionally! ;)

[HRAAB]

I don't understand it! The dc teaching themselves doesn't CUT it! :svengo:

 

Yes, yes, I know there are online courses, etc. but....

 

Do the online teachers have office hours to help struggling students IF the parent can't help? :confused: :toetap05:

 

I haven't read the entire thread, but just a quick observation. I have a dd that basically taught herself and started college at the age of 16. With her I was more of a facilitator; I made sure she had the materials needed, provided her with transportation, researched subjects, etc. I was also a sounding board for her. Most of the time I spent with her we were involved in discussions, her bouncing ideas off of me. By the time she was in 7th grade, she was a self learner. I'd like to claim I taught her to read, but honestly I only recall a handful of phonics lessons - otherwise, I spent hours reading to her and listening to her read. In her case, it did cut it and very well, too.

[Crissy]

Homeschooling is your job. That means treat it like one.

I do not use the word job in my thinking of homeschooling, being a parent, being a homemaker, or being a wife.

 

I don't either. Learning every day is just part of the way we live.

But even if I did consider homeschooling to be my job, I would expect that it would resemble any other sort of job. One in which I will approach a project or assignment in a different way than my co-workers might, and the end result could very well be as good or better than if someone did it in a completely different manner.

[Impish]

What?! You don't wear a uniform when you're on the job? (Adjusting apron straps.) Them's fightin' words! Homemaking is a profession. You need to dress professionally! ;)

*choking on 7 Up* :lol::lol:

Diva doesn't require me to oversee her every step of the way. She knows her math unit for the day, I set out science for her, she works through TOG with prompts and direction, but her actual assignments she does without input from me. She comes to me with questions when needed, but is probably 90% or so independent (some days are better than others :lol:)

 

Tazzie and Princess need every little bit of me they can get. Phonics, math, etc...its all Momma led. Or Daddy.

 

Difference being, Diva is 11, came home 'pre-packaged' in that she was already reading, had math. She's a challenge in math, in that not boring her is the problem!

 

As others have mentioned, having a chronic illness (RSD in my case) and the associated varying pain levels and meds can leave me dopey as heck. Some days the best I can do is sit in an easy chair, forcing myself to follow along a Dr Seuss book, reading out loud, praying my dh gets home to take over soon. Some days, its not even doable, and all I do is ensure everyone lives and the house is standing for when he gets home.

 

I can still say, without hesitation, that its far better than whats available in ps. Diva was pulled, so I *do* know this, not just assuming, guessing, or going by 2nd or 3rd hand info.

 

Personally, I find the idea of hand holding and spoon feeding a child their education to be abhorrent, once the child gets to be a certain age/level. I don't think anyone just chucks curric at their kids and tells them, 'Sink or swim!', and denies them help, or at least if the parent doesn't know, gets them help...and I think that's where the OP bugs me...the implication that the kids are without assistance when required.

 

I'm able to understand Diva's math etc now. I also know that physics, high level chem, and algebra (gr 12+) are going to leave me in the dust. I am, however, smart enough to know that, and have a plan of attack ready for when those days come ;)

[Daisy]

Ewww!!! Sorry, I completely disagree. I do not use the word job in my thinking of homeschooling, being a parent, being a homemaker, or being a wife.

 

Job doesn't have to have a negative connotation. When I use the word job I mean it is your responsibility and should be done in a thorough manner as if you were getting a paycheck for it. I hope none of us here would be slackers at a paid job. We would give it our absolute best.

 

While I would hope no one would view homeschooling as JUST a job, I do hope they would give it at least as much if not MORE effort than they would a job.

 

Being a wife, a parent, a teacher takes deliberate effort. It doesn't just happen. It takes a commitment. It takes prioritizing. That is what I meant by it is our job. It is our responsibility and as such we should be giving it 110%.

 

You'll note I have never maligned a particular method for homeschooling and I won't, but I do expect parents who choose to homeschool, to make education a priority in their home.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Daisy

[Jenny in GA]

I agree. So many homeschoolers are led astray by the common homeschool-guru mantra of, "at least it's better than public school." It is a lie that the least homeschool efforts are still better than public school. I meet more and more homeschoolers each year who send a dc to public school and are shocked to learn that they are struggling to keep up with their ps classmates, because the parents were assured by other homeschoolers, magazines, and books that a very relaxed homeschooling program was still ahead of the public school curriculum.

 

 

Ooh.

 

This is interesting.

 

You're right, I have heard that almost everywhere.

 

And I never hear the latter part of what you just said.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I don't understand it! The dc teaching themselves doesn't CUT it! :svengo:

 

I imagine that in many areas the dc teaching themselves is a better option than the classroom teacher not teaching the dc anything.

[OnTheBrink]

My son, who was in PS through 8th grade, needed more direct teaching. My daughter, who's always been homeschooled, is almost completely independent. Steve Demme teaches her math, William Linney teaches her Latin, and I facilitate everything else, available for questions and help, but for the most part, she does it all on her own.

 

I think one of the best gifts you can give a child is the ability to self-educate. There isn't always going to be someone around to spoon-feed the information, especially if the child goes to college.

[Barb_]

I don't understand it! The dc teaching themselves doesn't CUT it! :svengo:

 

Bull tweety. My oldest began teaching herself at 10 when she took the books away from me. She was a National Merit Scholar and will complete a 5-year bachelor/master's program in 4 years. I credit her success largely to her learning how to figure things out for herself. As far as I'm concerned, my number one job is to teach them well when they are little. My number two job is to eventually put myself out of a job as they grow older. If I didn't do number two well, I wouldn't be able to do number one with the younger kids. In our house, homeschooling is very much like parenting...teach them well and give them a little bit more reins each year.

 

Barb

[Jenny in GA]

Ewww!!! Sorry, I completely disagree. I do not use the word job in my thinking of homeschooling, being a parent, being a homemaker, or being a wife.

 

 

Oh wow, I thought I was the only one!

 

Really.

 

I always hear other women refer to homeschooling as their job (as in, on a Facebook questionnaire: "Do you like your job?" "Yes, I love being a Mom" or "yes, but sometimes homeschooling wears me down."

 

Or authors (like in Side-Tracked Home Executives) will refer to "their profession," and I'll think, "Oh, what's their profession?" and then I'll realize they mean being a housewife.

 

I completely do not relate to this. To me, it's like asking my husband about his job, and him starting to talk about mowing our lawn.

 

I've honestly never heard anyone else voice it before. Thanks!

 

Jenny

(getting ready to duck)