Someone pulled a knife on my son...

[JeneralMom]

at homeschool park day. The group I belong to meets weekly at a park where there is a forest, stream bed, play structures, etc. Kids of all ages play together and look out for each other, so we tend to let the kids have alot of freedom. Well, last Thursday (I have been mulling this over for days) a friend who also goes to the park told me that her son (we'll call him J) who is 7 told her that he was really upset about something that happened the week before (so two weeks ago) and proceeded to tell her that he, my 4 year old, and another boy (F who is about 8) were playing in the forest and F wanted my little guy to leave them alone, but J and X are dear friends so X didn't want to go. F pulled out a knife (a butter knife maybe) and told X to stop following them and go away or he would cut him. J was very scared. So after his mom told me, I asked X and his response was "yes, but the knife didn't hurt when he dragged it across my face." X and J are so scared of this boy that neither one of them told. I also know that another friend's children do not want to play with F and now I know why. DH does not want us to go back or of we do that I have to watch X all the time. He is also concerned about why an 8 year old would a) have a knife, b) go after another child with it, and c) think it was okay to threaten someone.

 

J's mom and I have no idea what to do. DO we confront F's mom eventhough she is friends with all of our friends? Do we just not go back? Do we become helicopter moms and watch our kids like hawks which defeats the purpose of choosing this park in which they are safe to wander.

 

I am really deeply disturbed.

[WTMCassandra]

Oh. My. Goodness. I would absolutely go, together, to P's mom. And then assuming she gets angry or blows you off (the most likely outcomes), I would go, together, to the police and report it, as well as the mom's response. You may lose friends over this, or then again, perhaps someone has been hoping someone else would have the courage to stand up. This is just WRONG. All that it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

 

I get that this will be hard/uncomfortable. I'm like the WORST at confrontation. But it's Mama Bear time.

[Carol in Cal.]

at homeschool park day. The group I belong to meets weekly at a park where there is a forest, stream bed, play structures, etc. Kids of all ages play together and look out for each other, so we tend to let the kids have alot of freedom. Well, last Thursday (I have been mulling this over for days) a friend who also goes to the park told me that her son (we'll call him J) who is 7 told her that he was really upset about something that happened the week before (so two weeks ago) and proceeded to tell her that he, my 4 year old, and another boy (F who is about 8) were playing in the forest and F wanted my little guy to leave them alone, but J and X are dear friends so X didn't want to go. F pulled out a knife (a butter knife maybe) and told X to stop following them and go away or he would cut him. J was very scared. So after his mom told me, I asked X and his response was "yes, but the knife didn't hurt when he dragged it across my face." X and J are so scared of this boy that neither one of them told. I also know that another friend's children do not want to play with F and now I know why. DH does not want us to go back or of we do that I have to watch X all the time. He is also concerned about why an 8 year old would a) have a knife, b) go after another child with it, and c) think it was okay to threaten someone.

 

J's mom and I have no idea what to do. DO we confront F's mom eventhough she is friends with all of our friends? Do we just not go back? Do we become helicopter moms and watch our kids like hawks which defeats the purpose of choosing this park in which they are safe to wander.

 

I am really deeply disturbed.

 

It is F that you have to watch all the time. All. The. Time.

And, yes, if your children are going to be there you have to watch them, too.

And yes, you have to talk to F's mom. But I would recommend being careful in the future even if she says she will take care of it.

 

This is very serious. It's not a showstopper, but it is something that has to be nipped in the bud very, very firmly. I would suggest having a group meeting and talking about your group stance and rules about weapons.

[LauraGB]

DO we confront F's mom eventhough she is friends with all of our friends?

 

YES!!! Absolutely! Today!!!

 

I'm so sorry your son was exposed to something like that! You have to talk to that kid's mom.

[Chris in VA]

I would want to know if my own child ever did this to another child. I would call the mom and say you had some concerns that would best be expressed in person, and set up a time to meet with her. I'd bring my husband, and possibly ask my friend with the son who told his mom to come, too. I would leave the kids at home.

I'd calmly tell her what happened and tell her you are sure she didn't know--give her every benefit of the doubt. Then I'd ask her to deal with her son, and I would not go back to park day until she told me how she was planning on handling it. I'd skip the next park day to give her time to deal with it. Then, yes, I'd watch my kids like a hawk, tell them they couldn't play with the other kid, and see how it went from there.

 

My son pulled a butter knife on his brother at home when he was 8. He had seen it in a movie or something. He just told his brother to leave him alone, but didn't touch him or really say anything else threatening. It was a sign to us that he was under a lot of stress--we talked with him and disciplined him, and he never did it (or anything remotely like it) again. This kid you are talking about touched your son--that is different, and probably very scary. Make sure you tell your boys to ALWAYS come to you if something like this happens. Make sure they know you will protect them.

[missmoe]

I'm sorry this happened. It sounds like a scary, worrisome situation. :grouphug:. I think that you really need to talk to the parents of the boy who had the knife. If he is doing something like this at such a young age, I would say he really needs help or perhaps something is happenng at home. And yes, if you go back, I think your son needs to be in your sight at all times. Also, I think that the other parents at park day need to be made aware of the situation, so their children can also be protected. I would also worry about your son. Are you sure this was the only time this happened? Or something like this between him and the other boy? I think you need to make sure your son knows he is safe and what you are going to do to make sure he is kept safe. Also, perhaps you could roleplay what he might do in a situation like this in the future and what he should do right afterwards.

 

:grouphug:

[RegularMom]

I agree. If my child threatened another child with (or without) a weapon, I would want to know about it. You must talk to that mom as soon as possible.

[smrtmama]

Wife of a cop chiming in here: Skip the mom. Call the cops. This has gone beyond bullying to a serious threat of harm.

[CalicoKat]

Who coordinates the plark dates for your group? That coordinator needs to know what's going on too.

 

You've gotten other great advice here.

[Quad Shot Academy]

I would give F's mom the benefit of the doubt. If it was my son that did that, I would take it very serious indeed and would be really upset if no-one told me and then he did something worse. It is most likely that an older boy did this same thing to F and the mom needs a chance to figure out what is going on. I would approach the mom with concern over her son that something bad has happened to him, or what he has seen on TV, that he acted out this way. If her response is not appropriate, I would go to the police as it is likely that this boy is being abused and threatened in his own home and that his behavior will escalate. If you are still considering in-action, you might ask yourself how you will feel if this boy seriously injures a little boy a year down the road.

:grouphug: It is really scary when you realize that no matter what safegaurds we put around our kids the world is still a dangerous place even for little 4 year olds.

[Mrs Mungo]

If I were in this situation I would talk to the mom but I would not go to the police.

[WTMCassandra]

I would give F's mom the benefit of the doubt.

 

I used to think things like this, but over the years, my experience has been been when a child has over-the-top behaviors, usually the parents are no pleasure to deal with, either. I would go to the Mom openly, but not naively, thinking she's going to react like I would (which is what I would have done years ago, only to be blindsided and shocked at a nasty response).

[WTMCassandra]

If I were in this situation I would talk to the mom but I would not go to the police.

 

I don't know about others, but I recommended it because of: "I asked X and his response was 'yes, but the knife didn't hurt when he dragged it across my face.'"

 

The child not only:

 

1) Threatened

2) Had a weapon

 

but also:

 

3) Executed the threat (only failed because the weapon was inept)

4) Went for the face

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't know about others, but I recommended it because of: "I asked X and his response was 'yes, but the knife didn't hurt when he dragged it across my face.'"

 

The child not only:

 

1) Threatened

2) Had a weapon

 

but also:

 

3) Executed the threat (only failed because the weapon was inept)

4) Went for the face

 

But the child *knew* the weapon was inept. I've seen my kids interpret or explain things that happen in a vastly different way than I saw them happen. For those two reasons, I would not call the police. I've seen many situations between kids escalate greatly with the involvement of the police. It can take a long time to deal with all of the legal fallout.

[Moxie]

A 15 year old in Missouri just killed a 9 year old neighbor because she "wanted to see what it felt like". I would skip the mom and go right for the police.

[myfunnybunch]

oops--duplicate

Edited November 24, 2009 by myfunnybunch
duplicate

[myfunnybunch]

DO we confront F's mom even though she is friends with all of our friends?

 

Don't think of it as a confrontation. Think of it as a necessary conversation. Approach it from the standpoint that you're on the same side--obviously she would want to know because she would never want her child to behave like that. You care as much about what happens with her child as you do what happens with your own because they are children and you are mothers. (Wouldn't you want someone to tell you if your child did something like that?)

 

I would leave the issue of how to deal with the problem up to her unless she asks directly for advice. I'd leave the issue of whether or not to allow your children to play with this child or whether to give up park day altogether out of the conversation with her and decide that for yourself.

 

Expect the best of her, that she'll be deeply concerned and want to address the problem immediately. Prepare for the worst, that she will blame your children or question their truthfulness, and that she may be hostile or defensive. If that happens, try to stay calm and open, and keep bringing it back to "I care what happens and I know you do too. Maybe we can work together to resolve this for the children." If that doesn't work, it's all right to say, "I think this isn't working. Please call me/email my husband/contact the group leader if you would like to discuss it calmly at some point in the future."

 

I've had to have a couple very difficult conversations, including being on the receiving end of one. (Different issues, not quite to this extreme, but to those who automatically blame the parents, children are still learning about life and sometimes come up with or imitate stupid or dangerous things that they've misinterpreted or seen...who knows where?) You're in a very challenging situation, but if you approach it with compassion you're more likely to have a positive outcome, or at least some clarity about how to handle the situation for your family.

 

:grouphug:

 

Cat

[Tree House Academy]

And WHY did this knife end up going down your child's face???????

 

I didn't read other responses, but I would absolutely, hands down, confront this mother. She likely had NO IDEA about this. My older son has threatened my younger son before (holding a fork in the air and shaking his fist) and those are things we DO NOT TOLERATE! If he were to do this to another child, I would want to know immediately.

 

I would also tell the person who is over the program so that rules can be made an enforced about threats, etc. This child needs to be dealt with swiftly and seriously. Don't wait.

 

I would not let your son go back to this event until you are SURE the mom knows and is doing something about it and that anyone in charge knows too. Then, yes, helicopter mom it all the way.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[Impish]

Go to the mom. If she's not willing to do anything about it, shrugs it off, etc, inform her that the next incident will involve a call to the police. And then follow through.

[lionfamily1999]

I would want to know if my own child ever did this to another child. I would call the mom and say you had some concerns that would best be expressed in person, and set up a time to meet with her. I'd bring my husband, and possibly ask my friend with the son who told his mom to come, too. I would leave the kids at home.

I'd calmly tell her what happened and tell her you are sure she didn't know--give her every benefit of the doubt. Then I'd ask her to deal with her son, and I would not go back to park day until she told me how she was planning on handling it. I'd skip the next park day to give her time to deal with it. Then, yes, I'd watch my kids like a hawk, tell them they couldn't play with the other kid, and see how it went from there.

 

My son pulled a butter knife on his brother at home when he was 8. He had seen it in a movie or something. He just told his brother to leave him alone, but didn't touch him or really say anything else threatening. It was a sign to us that he was under a lot of stress--we talked with him and disciplined him, and he never did it (or anything remotely like it) again. This kid you are talking about touched your son--that is different, and probably very scary. Make sure you tell your boys to ALWAYS come to you if something like this happens. Make sure they know you will protect them.

:iagree:

[swellmomma]

I would call the cops. Mom needs to know her son did this so that he can get the help he clearly needs, but without the cops she likely would blow it off as boys will be boys BS. Having the cops involved will show both mom and boy just how serious this is. DD had a knife pulled on her 2 summers ago at the lake by our house by teens(likely gang related but I wasn't with them). She still has nightmares from it and no one tried to drag it across her face.

[Spy Car]

But the child *knew* the weapon was inept. I've seen my kids interpret or explain things that happen in a vastly different way than I saw them happen. For those two reasons, I would not call the police. I've seen many situations between kids escalate greatly with the involvement of the police. It can take a long time to deal with all of the legal fallout.

 

Thank you voice-of-reason person. Talk to the mother.

 

Bill

[AuntieM]

I keep wondering why the older boy wanted to be alone with the 4 yr old, to the point of assaulting your son to get him to leave. I cannot imagine good intentions.

 

Knowing that the older boy is dangerous, I believe that it is your responsibility to bring it to both the mother and the group coordinator. It goes beyond your family, and your family's interaction with F. He is, perhaps, a danger to other kids. I personally could not have a clear conscience if I did not take some action. At the very least, the group needs to make some clear rules about bringing knives and kids leaving the group in inappropriate pairs. Yes, boys will be boys, but something about the face attack and the fear give me a chill. Maybe next time it won't be a butter knife.

 

This may be stretching, but I find myself wondering if F has been a victim in some way and was planning to pass along some learned behavior, thus his desire for privacy with this 4 yr old. Like I said, that may be stretching, and I wouldn't assume the worst right off the bat, but you can't be too careful if something like that is a possibility. If it is, then I would not feel confident that you'd get truthful cooperation from the mom.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Blessedfamily]

Pulling out a knife is step 1. Making contact with someone's person with a knife is step 2. This needs to be dealt with before this child possibly goes further.

[jujsky]

Yes, you need to talk to F's mom. If you lose friends over this, then they weren't your real friends to begin with. This could have happened to any one of their children. Even if it was just a butter knife or something, it's odd and disturbing that an 8 year-old child would find it acceptable to threaten another child (especially one half his age!) with violence. Nip this right in the bud, and watch that child like a hawk. In fact, I think it would be wise if you and the mom of your son's friend make it a rule that they are no longer allowed to play with F.

[Pretty in Pink]

Yes, absolutely, you have got to talk to the other parent. I would not go straight to the police. I would ask her to handle the situation and let me know the outcome, and I would ask her to go with me to speak to whomever is in charge of arranging this park day.

[Moxie]

Thank you voice-of-reason person. Talk to the mother.

 

Bill

 

But don't you think the police should know so there is a record of this child's behavior? Just in case it were to escalate later, like when all the neighborhood cats go missing?

[Pretty in Pink]

Just wanted to add that I don't think it would necessarily be wrong to go to the police. You are justified in going to the police if that is what your family decides. The child committed a very serious crime.

[Spy Car]

But don't you think the police should know so there is a record of this child's behavior? Just in case it were to escalate later, like when all the neighborhood cats go missing?

 

It's a judgement call. It's possible the boy is just plain-scary and he's a potential psychopath. Or he could be a fairly-normal kid (who knows he has a harmless butter knife) who has some issues about what is (and is not) appropriate behavior.

 

One usually gets a sense of the difference when you know a child first-hand. Which I don't. But I'd talk to the parents first.

 

Bill

[LauraGB]

F pulled out a knife (a butter knife maybe) and told X to stop following them and go away or he would cut him. J was very scared. So after his mom told me, I asked X and his response was "yes, but the knife didn't hurt when he dragged it across my face."

 

Can you get verification from the other child what kind of knife it was exactly? I know in the grand scheme of things it seems trivial, but if I were you, I would really want to know. I hate to say it, but unfortunately I think the police would have a hard time taking seriously the threat of an 8 year old boy (not that *I* think its not serious!).

 

Going to F's mom first is the best bet. If things go poorly with her, then I would address the issue with the head(s) of your play group. Actually, I would bring it up to them regardless.

[WTMCassandra]

But the child *knew* the weapon was inept.

 

:001_huh: I'm sorry, I honestly don't see this from the information given. (No snark intended.)

[teamturner]

I haven't read all the replies, but if this park day is with a group are there leaders in this group? Is there a written discipline policy? I know at our co-op there was a boy who started a fight with another boy and the boy who started it had to miss a day of co-op. Sort of like being suspended. I think the leaders need to know about it and they can tell F's mother that she needs to keep him home for a week or so in order to make him understand the severity of his actions. I wouldn't make your children miss a park day when it wasn't their fault. They may perceive this as a reason to not tell you of incidents in the future.

 

IMO no matter how safe a park is, I would still watch my children at the park for reasons such as this. He's only 4 and there are bullies in any group. Even homeschool groups. The leaders of your group need to be made aware so that they can keep an eye out for this troubled boy. All the kids at the park are at risk essentially.

[melissel]

I keep wondering why the older boy wanted to be alone with the 4 yr old, to the point of assaulting your son to get him to leave.

 

The 8-year-old wanted to be alone with the 7-year-old. The 4-year-old is the OP's little guy and the one who was threatened.

 

To the OP, yes, you absolutely must bring it up with the mom, as others have suggested, and the group leader as well. I would wait to call the police until I saw how the mom reacted and wanted to handle it. If I wasn't satisfied with that, I might then call them and ask what the protocol is for this kind of thing. They may have some ideas for you.

 

:grouphug: How horrible for your little guy and the friend who witnessed it :(

[Laurie4b]

But the child *knew* the weapon was inept. I've seen my kids interpret or explain things that happen in a vastly different way than I saw them happen. For those two reasons, I would not call the police. I've seen many situations between kids escalate greatly with the involvement of the police. It can take a long time to deal with all of the legal fallout.

 

I agree. The kid might be really bad news or he might be a kid "play-acting" (for lack of a better word) some scenario (like Captain Hook) or he may have a group that he plays with that re-enact and it doesn't bother them. Your child, however was much younger and he and his friend were scared.

 

I would talk with the mom definitely. She needs to know what her kid is doing. I had one of mine bully another kid once (not with a knife!) but the parents did tell me and that enabled me to nip that in the bud.

 

I think calling the police is an overreaction until you have more info. It would be really, really scary to have this happen to your 4 yr old, but looking at it through the eyes of an 8 year old, he may not have been seeing it the same.

[tdeveson]

Tell the mother gently. If she sees the danger in her son's behavior and deals with it to your satisfaction, done. If she gets angry, defensive, or denies it, call the police and make a report.

 

If the mother refuses to deal with the problem, or becomes angry or defensive, call the cops and make a report.

 

If you're concerned about losing a friend, consider how much worse it would be to lose a son.

[Word Nerd]

YES!!! Absolutely! Today!!!

 

I'm so sorry your son was exposed to something like that! You have to talk to that kid's mom.

 

:iagree: That's not normal behavior, and the fact that it was "just" a butter knife and didn't hurt is irrelevant. (ETA: No, I would not call the police, as at this point that seems like an overreaction.)

[ereks mom]

It is F that you have to watch all the time. All. The. Time.

And, yes, if your children are going to be there you have to watch them, too.

And yes, you have to talk to F's mom. But I would recommend being careful in the future even if she says she will take care of it.

 

This is very serious. It's not a showstopper, but it is something that has to be nipped in the bud very, very firmly. I would suggest having a group meeting and talking about your group stance and rules about weapons.

 

:iagree:

[Laurie4b]

:001_huh: I'm sorry, I honestly don't see this from the information given. (No snark intended.)

 

It didn't hurt when used. That's all the OP knows about it--she didn't see it. From a child's description, maybe it was a butter knife. It could have been one of those fake rubber ones for all we know. But given that it didn't hurt when used, it seems reasonable than an 8 year old who did know what kind of knife it was knew that it wouldn't hurt.

[Wendi]

I would call the cops. Mom needs to know her son did this so that he can get the help he clearly needs, but without the cops she likely would blow it off as boys will be boys BS. Having the cops involved will show both mom and boy just how serious this is. DD had a knife pulled on her 2 summers ago at the lake by our house by teens(likely gang related but I wasn't with them). She still has nightmares from it and no one tried to drag it across her face.

 

 

I understand you've suffered on behalf of your dd, but you don't know this kid and his parents at all; why assume they'll blow it off and go to the police without even discussing it with them?

 

Even if you've decided to call the police no matter what, I think you'd owe the mom the courtesy of informing her what happened. She's not a random stranger you've never met; she's another mom in the homeschool group.

 

There are lots of possibilities here. That the kid's behavior is a sign the parents are irresponsible and unconcerned is only one possibility.

 

Wendi

[Unicorn.]

I agree. If my child threatened another child with (or without) a weapon, I would want to know about it. You must talk to that mom as soon as possible.

 

:iagree: Talk to the mom!

[tex-mex]

When I taught 4th grade -- I had a student who was seriously emotionally disturbed. Got into lots of trouble. We knew something would happen with him but legally could not kick him out of school yet.

 

One day he took apart his pencil sharpener and took the blade out with him to recess. Threatened a little 1st grader with it. Thank God the little one ran to the yard duty and told her what happened. 4th Grader was expelled from the school ASAP. School district placed him in another school. (I personally recommended grandparents who were the guardians for the child to get him into counseling. Got into hot water with school district over doing that.)

 

I would notify the HS group of what happened and WATCH that kid like a hawk. There should be a policy about not bringing sharp items to Park Day. Heavens. :glare:

[ChristusG]

Are you a good friend of the mother or just an acquaintance? If you are good friends, you may want to talk to her first. I just know that if my child did this to a good friend's child, I would feel very betrayed if you went to the police before even telling me about it or giving me some sort of warning.

 

I agree that this is VERY serious and dangerous behavior. Definitely talk to the mom.....and based on her reaction and what she plans to do about it, then consider the cops.

 

I would be really freaked out about this happening to my child.

[sleepymommy]

You've already gotten great advice. I would talk to the mother of the child ASAP. Explain to her exactly what happened and preferably do this in front of the child with the knife. This way if the child says he didn't you can be there to say different. If the mother is sympathetic, tell her that that if she brings him to the playgroup again, to keep her eye on him the whole time as to not compromise the safety of any other children. If she brings him and does not watch him, see if the playgroup organizer can remove them. I would also suggest the child see a counselor if this is not the first time she has noticed violent tendencies in the child.

 

I would still give the mother the benefit of the doubt, I would certainly want someone to tell me if my child does anything inappropriate and would appreciate the opportunity to rectify the situation.

 

If she outright denies any wrong doing, I would then let her know that I would make sure that my children know they are not allowed to play with the child and I would remind them in a very loud voice at the parkdate, then I would also let the other mothers in the group know why.

[Alicia64]

What's so bad about being a helicopter mom?? :lol:

 

I would take this very seriously.

 

Alley

[AuntieM]

The 8-year-old wanted to be alone with the 7-year-old. The 4-year-old is the OP's little guy and the one who was threatened.

 

Ah, thanks for pointing that out, I had it backwards. While it still seems inappropriate, it strikes me differently when I understand their ages. I can imagine now that F's intent may have just to be rid of what he may have perceived as a "pesky" 4 yr old tag-along. Still not okay behavior, but perhaps with a different intent than I originally thought may exist.

 

I still think it needs to be addressed, I'd talk to the mom first. I think it would be overreacting to involve the police.

[2cents]

This is an uncomfortable call. I personally am struggling with the potential that F's behavior could escalate. I was wondering about his motives for separating the boys. Unfortunately, talking to the parents doesn't mean they will do something. Maybe they've been talked to before? What if he hurts a child and everyone is asked why nobody consulted the police? His behavior is a lot more than pushing a little playmate or stealing some lunch money. While those are bad behaviors, they aren't on the same level as dragging a knife across a face. That is scary stuff. If this was an adult there would be no question that the police would be called. I'd hate to have to do it but there should be a record of this so that the child/parents can get some counseling. Too many times we read in the news about a child doing something horrible and we hear interviews with neighbors, family etc who say things that make you shake your head and wonder why authorities weren't consulted earlier. I'm glad your son is ok but it could have been tragic. I weigh in on urging at least a call to the police to talk to someone to see what they recommend. :(

[Whereneverever]

Wow, OP- how scary! Please talk to the mom, and I'd consider calling the police based on how the conversation went.

[Pajama Mama]

I agree with talking to the mom first. If she isn't concerned then I would report the incident. Honestly, your son could have been injured. If it was a butter knife with a serrated edge it could have injured his eyes. We have butter knives with the serrated edges and it could hurt someone's eyes if it scraped them. Regardless if it could hurt him or not-he pulled a knife on your child.

[plimsoll]

Wife of a cop chiming in here: Skip the mom. Call the cops. This has gone beyond bullying to a serious threat of harm.

 

I agree. Cutting someone with a knife is beyond simply making threats. Even pulling a knife and brandishing it is a potentially deadly situation.

 

So tell the cops. Let them talk to the parents. You owe it to yourself and to every child (or adult!) that this child comes into contact with. Next time it might be a sharpened knife or a gun!

 

My two cents.

[FlockOfSillies]

DO we confront F's mom eventhough she is friends with all of our friends?

 

Do you think it would be easier to do if she weren't a friend?

 

Frankly, I'd (a) confront the mom, (b) watch her promise to follow up only to sweep it under the rug, then © go to TPTB of the homeschool group and tell them that either Knife Boy goes or my family goes. Hopefully, I'd have at least one other family participating in © with me. If Knife Boy doesn't go, I pull my kids out of there.

 

Simple. Awkward and potentially painful, but simple.