Behavior of children at church????

[Heather in Neverland]

So here's the deal... the church we went to in the U.S. had children's church during the entire service so I dropped my little guy off and went to the sanctuary.

 

Here in Malaysia we have found a church we LOVE but they do things a little differently. The children stay with parents until about half-way through the service and then they go to their class.

 

I have no problem with either model.

 

The problem is my 5yo. He cannot sit still in church to save his life! He's driving me crazy! All he does the whole time is goof around and act squirrely. He's not a brat by any means. He just has ants in his pants.

 

So I was arguing with myself in my head during church today. What is REASONABLE behavior to expect from a 5yo in church? Can I reasonably expect him to sit stock-still for 45 minutes? Am I too lax or am I expecting too much? I've just never had to deal with this before.

 

Before you answer you should know that I am not a big follower of the "Pearl" family mentality and while I am not "against" spanking per se, I don't think spanking my kid is the best way to help him appreciate church, ya know?

 

So this is a two-part questions:

 

1. what is reasonable to expect?

2. how do I make that happen?

[WTMCassandra]

We found the book Parenting in the Pew to be very helpful. My children did better sitting up front--they felt more a part of things and it was easier to pay attention (although I was more on edge knowing they would distract others if they were wiggly). The book talks about making little pictures to help the children understand what is going on, and other good strategies. You might also consider allowing a pad of paper and a few crayons (like a small set of eight) or a pencil for him to "take notes" himself.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I, personally, think that 45 minutes to sit stock still for any 5 year old is a little much. We've never been in a church where the kids are in their own service the whole time, they are usually with us during worship and then dismissed to their classes. So they've been able to participate in worship which makes it a little easier for them.

 

Things I've done to keep my kids occupied during the time in the service when they were too young to actively participate in worship are:

 

1. coloring pages

2. DK books or great picture books

3. little maze books or age-appropriate puzzle books

4. those shapes that you can "sew" yarn around

5. magnadoodle

 

Anyway, we had a little backpack full of things they could do for part of the service quietly. If they weren't quiet with it, it had to get put away. I only brought one or two things to do, not all of them because then they just drag it all out at once--you know how it is!

 

I don't necessarily agree with the "Pearl" mentality as well. I think that a reasonable thing to expect from a 5 year old is maybe 15-20 minutes at a time of sitting still and listening before they need to have some type of stimulation. That's me. That's what I expected from my dc and they were basically able to deliver it. There's a huge difference between a child being disruptive and disrespectful and a child who just isn't able to sit that long. I don't think spanking will accomplish anything because he really isn't trying to be rebellious or disrespectful.

 

Good luck!

[dangermom]

If he's not used to it, you'll have to practice; he can't just start doing it all of a sudden. I've never known a 5yo, girl or boy, who could sit that still for that long at a stretch. People at my church generally bring paper for coloring, quiet books, and such for their younger children to keep them occupied, but he'll have to move around a bit.

 

You will want to start having a sort of practice quiet time at about the same time every day, ideally about when church happens. Just practice sitting still for, say 10 minutes, doing the sorts of things you will allow him to do during church. Singing a churchy-type song at this time is good too.

Edited September 20, 2009 by dangermom

[ChristusG]

I'd go nuts every week LOL. I have a 5 year old DD and it is hard for her to sit still in church. And I rarely have her in there with me....only when they have special events where there is no childcare, which is rare. But it happened a few weeks ago. She was SO wiggly. I have no advice, I just wanted to let you know that I agree that it is difficult to get a 5 year old to sit still for that long. And she tries to whisper to me all the time too.

[teamturner]

We found the book Parenting in the Pew to be very helpful. My children did better sitting up front--they felt more a part of things and it was easier to pay attention (although I was more on edge knowing they would distract others if they were wiggly). The book talks about making little pictures to help the children understand what is going on, and other good strategies. You might also consider allowing a pad of paper and a few crayons (like a small set of eight) or a pencil for him to "take notes" himself.

 

:iagree: This is good advice.

[Karenciavo]

I have to sit in the front row, my husband leads worship and I work the power point. My youngest has sat through the entire service since he was 4 yo (nursery ends at 3 here.) Our church provides a weekly children's bulletin with puzzles and short stories that have kept him occupied over the years, also I have him follow along when scripture is read and during singing. My advice is to keep him occupied and try to sit toward the front, if all he can see are the backs of people's heads he's going to be bored.

[freetobeme]

i think 45 minutes is LONG for a child to sit at that age. we took a bag with things to do as a pp suggested but waited until we knew the wiggling would start to break it out (early in our service there is a lot of standing, singing, greeting). we even included a candy treat that was awarded if we made it to the end. i sympathize with you - my boys are twins so i was dealing with two at once!

[Whereneverever]

In our churches the kids are present from birth in the services. It's definitely a lot of work to gently teach them to sit- my two year old is squirrely beyond belief! I don't do toys or anything, but we do do a lot of singing, standing crossing ourselves, ect that helps keep it interesting. We also sit right at the front so both my kids can see.

My five year old has learned to sit really well and participates- a lot of her memory work has been various parts of the service so she knows what comes when.

My husband is the pastor- so I have to do it alone! Some weeks are better then others.

[lionfamily1999]

If he's not used to it, you'll have to practice; he can't just start doing it all of a sudden. I've never known a 5yo, girl or boy, who could sit that still for that long at a stretch. People at my church generally bring paper for coloring, quiet books, and such for their younger children to keep them occupied, but he'll have to move around a bit.

 

You will want to start having a sort of practice quiet time at about the same time every day, ideally about when church happens. Just practice sitting still for, say 10 minutes, doing the sorts of things you will allow him to do during church. Singing a churchy-type song at this time is good too.

I like this idea a lot!

 

I have been to a few churches where children are involved, or at least expected to sit through, the entire service. For me, I always kept quiet snacks (raisins) and papers with crayons. It's possible for my dcs to be quiet (at that age), but not to sit still. Sometimes I let them sit on the floor and for my youngest I would bring cars and just sit all the way in the back so he could play quietly out of the way.

[Paz]

I don't have many suggestions. I just remember my 2 very active children. At age 4 dd was climbing over the pews and ds at age 9 was crying because his legs hurt to sit still. My goal was to make it through until children dismissal time without disrupting all of those around us. Drawing and coloring helped a lot.

[Heather in Neverland]

And she tries to whisper to me all the time too.

 

Yup. My ds does too except he doesn't "whisper" very well. :tongue_smilie:

[Brenda in FL]

I have not read the other responses maybe what I have to say is a repeat - but here it is anyway:

 

My son was/is the same way and I had to break it down for myself to see what should be appropriate. First - I know my child can obey me, I know if I tell him to be quiet and stop fidgeting he can. I also know that I may have to remind him of this several (SEVERAL) times!! And I am OK with this, as long as he obeys at the reminder. Second - Since I know he is capable of obeying me, if he disobeys when I remind him, such as continuing to do the offending behavior right after I ask him to stop - then I know he has crossed the line. I also know that at that age if I were to remove him he would make even more of a disruption!! So we go into the service with the understanding of what the consequence will be when we leave - make sure its substantial!! In our house it would be no "Sunday Sundae" for dinner. (Yes, our meal on Sunday is an ice cream sundae with all the works!!) But be encouraged - the behavior does get better!! Although I am relieved that the church we are attending right now has children's church for my little guy who is now in first grade!

 

I also recommend reading Parenting in the Pew by Robbie Castleman. It's a great resource for children of all ages.

 

ETA: Don't feel to self-conscious about your son's behavior in church. Since all the families are "parenting in the pew" along with you - they can sympathize!! That's what I like about churches with this model - they are very family friendly and forgiving when it comes to little disruptions - they've all been there!! At least that's been my experience.

 

ETA again: I would suggest expecting your little guy to participate just like everyone else - standing when everyone is singing/praying, memorizing any creeds or songs that are song on a regular basis - so that he will fell that he is a participant in worship and not just waiting for children's church to begin.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Brenda in FL

[Caitilin]

At my church, children are fully part of all services; that is, there is no childcare or "children's church" at all. My 5 yo DD sits through our entire service, which runs about 1.5 hours, although sitting still wouldn't be perfectly accurate. :D She enjoys looking through the children's picture bible in the pew, as well as the hymnal, or the adult bible or prayer book. Also, we get up and "pass the peace" about halfway through, so she gets to move around and say hi to everyone (we are a very small congregation!), and that helps. My ds 7 had a lot more trouble with being still than she does, but it helped a bit when he became an acolyte at about 6, and it gave him some "jobs" to do. I would second the small quiet activities in a bag. If he can read, maybe set him to looking through the bible for simple words: a friend's grandson named Grant spent many happy Sundays looking for his name in the prayerbook. :)

[Quad Shot Academy]

Our children sit through an hour and a half service from the ages of 3 and up. I do expect silence, though they each whisper a few comments to hubby or I. It is fine with me if the younger ones get in and out of their chairs and walk back and forth in front of the family. They just have to be quiet! My youngest was making and throwing pretend Spiderman webs this morning. :lol: We bring a spiral notebook and 1 pencil for the younger ones. We draw them pictures, write their names and draw shapes for them to copy. After the service, we ask them to tell us what they remember. Sometimes we hand out chocolate covered raisins for each thing they remember. My oldest does a much better job analyzing and summarizing the sermon than I do. :001_huh: They also usually get a donut at fellowship time, if they have done well.

 

The kids do slightly better in the front, but I can't stand the feeling of all those eyes on us, so for my comfort and those who would be behind us, being entertained by Spiderman, we always sit in the very back row. ;)

[newlifemom]

I find if I provide some kind of stimulation(think OT here) then my son will be able to sit still. Similar to schooling on an exercise ball. So I rub his back gently during service. I know that he doesn't follow the sermon totally, yet, but he is still and quiet. I think that is a start. FWIW, it took months to get here from where we were which sounds like where you are now. (how's that for convoluted :tongue_smilie:) Our children are expected to stand and try to sing (sometimes they don't know the words and cannot read the words as quickly as needed to follow.)

 

It will get better and the great thing is you will know exactly what topic he covered in church to reinforce at home later. ;)

[Natalieclare]

Our church does not have a separate children's church; I felt very trepidatious about switching to this model, as my kids are all on the gregarious and wiggly side. We started when my now 5yo was 2 and a half. We meet in the afternoons, so she mostly napped through the service until about last year. She is able to last the service which lasts about 2 to 2 1/2 hours. (We do have a 15 minute run-around-get-a-snack break between the song/prayer portion and the sermon/communion portion.)

 

I am a big believer in patiently training my kids to exercise the skill of stillness. I guess some would consider my expectations on the low side, but the slow and encouraging method has worked here. Our biggest troubles are with her looking at and "flirting" with the people behind her. :glare: I certainly wouldn't expect my child to have quiet listening down pat, if he has had limited to no opportunities to practice. My 2 1/2 yo is still not able to last the service at all without being disruptive at some point. But he will! Someday, not too far off, he will.

 

My husband preaches every 3rd week, and I am sure there are some who think I should step up my pace with my expectations (you know, the whole scrutiny of the preacher kind of thing). But I am in this for the long haul and I am not going to put the thumbscrews to my kids in the name of worshipping God.

 

Cassandra has some great ideas and I second the recommendation for Parenting in the Pew. I can't remember if this idea is in there or not, but sometimes the speakers in our church give the kids a word or two to tally up while they are speaking. ie if the sermon is based on 1 Cor 13, perhaps they would keep a tally of how many times the word love was spoken.

 

Relax and be patient and train. It will come if you want it too. My 12yo is off the charts with his ants in the pants behavior, but he has gained a lot of confidence with being able to exhibit mature behavior in church.

[Carol in Cal.]

Church was an hour long.

But she was used to it. I never used the church nursery very much, so I really pretty much expected her to be quiet from a very early age in church.

 

What helped--

I prepared her beforehand a lot--I would teach her one of the hymns, and we do a lot of liturgical singing so she learned those songs just from hearing them weekly since pre-birth. I encouraged her to participate. I can't tell you how helpful it was that she could cut loose and sing along from time to time during the service--we usually sang 3-4 hymns and 3-5 liturgical pieces.

 

I also sometimes read her the Bible lessons in advance, or told a simple version of the Gospel lesson and asked her to watch for that in the service.

 

During the service, I didn't mind if she quietly ate a small snack or held a soft toy quietly, but I directed her attention to the service repeatedly but quietly.

 

I whispered instructions to her a lot--'fold you hands, we are praying' 'stand now'--and also whispered 'translations' to her -- the sermon in her own words. It happened that for my particular child, if I whispered to her she would only whisper back, and usually didn't interrupt me.

 

I dressed her defensively and carried the right stuff along--no gushy or slurpy food (goldfish crackers were pretty good, and a sippy cup of water), no shoes that made a lot of noise on the floor, a stuffed toy that was soft enough not to make noise if it fell, and had no bell. I held her on my lap a lot.

 

Really, I wanted her there, so badly. I wanted her to grow up going to church every Sunday and staying with us. So this felt worth it and doable to me.

[Erica in PA]

We found the book Parenting in the Pew to be very helpful. My children did better sitting up front--they felt more a part of things and it was easier to pay attention (although I was more on edge knowing they would distract others if they were wiggly). The book talks about making little pictures to help the children understand what is going on, and other good strategies. You might also consider allowing a pad of paper and a few crayons (like a small set of eight) or a pencil for him to "take notes" himself.

 

YES!! I really, really recommend this book for any Christian parent. I had put off reading it because for some reason I thought it was going to be what I would consider extreme, advocating keeping babies with you in church, spanking babies for not being quiet, etc. But it was nothing like what I expected. The author suggests nursery through age 3, and then ages 4 and up in church. Her advice and tips are *excellent,* and reading the book has helped clear up some misconceptions I had about kids in church. Just this morning, I tried some new ideas with my (very distractable) 7 year old, such as asking her which Bible stories she could imagine while listening to the instrumental offeratory music. I definitely felt more like I was helping her learn to worship God, and less like I was just getting her to sit still and be quiet.

 

I wholeheartedly encourage any Christian with children to read this book.

[Ellie]

I don't think sitting "stock still" is reasonable, but sitting quietly and entertaining oneself is. Mr. Ellie grew up in the pews, as it were; he said his mother gave him crayons and paper and all that, but would NOT tolerate him being squirrely.

 

And I think sometimes that's part of the equation: expectations. Maybe that isn't the right word, but if you think that it is possible for a child to be reasonably quiet, you will correct and instruct differently than if you think it is not possible.

 

One good thing in the Pearls' book is that they think it's better to begin the training at home, in small time increments, rather than doing the training on the battlefield, as it were. :-)

[fivetails]

Ha, I'm 32 and I have a very difficult time sitting quietly through church. ;)

 

Seriously. I'm a fidget-er, always have been. Force me to sit quiet and still for an hour and I'll feel like I've lost bits of my brain and prolly have bitten off all my nails. I bring a pen & paper and I draw ~ okay, doodle - I'm no artist - throughout the whole thing...when I'm not chewing on my pen, fiddling with my shoes, or tying my hair in knots, that is. :tongue_smilie:

 

It'll come as no surprise that I can understand that being a long time for a kid to sit quietly - I'd definitely bring something..drawing pads, stickers, some other crafty thing, books, etc. :)

[Pamela H in Texas]

Pretty much, every Witness kid is expected to sit through 1 hour 45 minutes (in most congregations) twice a week from infancy. Obviously, in the first 18-24 months, people are a bit flexible with this and not particularly punitive. By 2.5, sometimes 3, almost every child who has been to most meetings can do it with few, if any spankings after that point; and that is with the expectation of them also staying awake. This is what I have seen in the areas we've lived in; obviously they may do differently in Zimbabwe, Brazil or France (or any other country in the world).

 

Anyway, *I* had a challenging kiddo but was VERY strict (not punitive). Things we did:

 

1) 5yr olds attempted to look up scripture.

2) 5yr olds also wrote "notes" (usually just scriptural references, not always the whole things, especially when the speaker was a Bible gymnast-one of those who goes scripture to scripture with less talking inbetween).

3) A 5yo can easily do tally marks if writing is beyond him. Tally marks for every time certain words were said (Jesus, Bible, etc).

4) MUST: teach tongue and toe aerobics! LOL Fingers wiggling while they are sitting on them works well also. This way they are still wiggling but not driving everyone around you batty.

5) I find sitting up front MUCH easier. The child is more engaged and mom is more consistent as kiddo would bother more people if she let anything go.

6) We prepare for meetings. For most parts of each our meetings, we have materials to study prior to the meeting. By preparing, the child is more engaged. Also, he can participate (we have question and answer times, etc).

7) Mark off on schedule what has been done so they can see the progress through the meeting (if applicable).

8) Some people allow the Bible Stories book during meetings. IMO, any other book (other than materials being studied), toy, coloring book, etc is inappropriate.

9) We used sign language and cues to communicate certain things.

10) And of course, we went to the bathroom or outside a few times (not spanking in our case).

 

Anyway, really, it's a matter of training. Practicing at home and being consistent while there will work. We have a couple children in our congregation on the autism spectrum and such and they all do learn and all but one even participates.

 

It helps to know they CAN do it then help them reach that expectation.

Edited September 21, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Erica in PA]

I second the recommendation to sit up front. We have sat in the front row or two since our kids were 8, 4, and 2 years old, and I think it is so much easier! When we have had to sit in the back on crowded weeks, it was much harder for my kids (and me!) to pay attention. There's something about having the pastor look *right at you* throughout the sermon that really helps you focus! :) Not to mention not having hundreds of people in front of you to distract you. We have a front side door right beside our pew, so we can duck out quickly and without causing much disruption when needed. While most families at our church with young children tend to sit in the back, I've noticed lately that several other families have been trying out the front lately, which I think is great!

[Jennifer in NH]

another vote to sit up front. I bring prayer cards, a child's rosary, and sometimes a lift flap children's bible or a felt bible story book. Usually if he can keep his hands busy he does much better. At 7 he is much better than he was at five, but it takes time.

[Jugglin'5]

We don't have a nursery, and our service is 1 1/2 hours. My very athletic, active, wiggly five yr old boy does fine. He occasionally switches position - to my lap, back off, etc. He does know to be quite and will occasionally draw on the worship bulletin with a pencil. I try to train mine to be as quiet and still as they can, so as not to distract others, though people do understand when there is the occasional lapse, since pretty much everyone is in the same boat. With my older ones, we used to play games at home to prepare - the quiet game, etc. and who ever was quiet the longest got a prize or something. I haven't needed to do this with the younger ones because they have seen what was expected of them since they were little, and have never been in the nursery. They just sort of grew up with the expectation so it wasn't a big deal. It was more of an adjustment for my older ones, who had spent a few years in the nursery before we switched churches, but they learned quickly. I should say that we did spank, once we knew that they understood what was expected, but I think it can still be done without spanking, no problem. I hope you find a solution that works for you!

[lionfamily1999]

Yup. My ds does too except he doesn't "whisper" very well. :tongue_smilie:

Ah, the stage whisper.

[Amber in SJ]

Our Sunday services are 3 hours long. The first 75 minutes everyone is together and after that there are Sunday School classes by age starting at 3yo. Here are some things that have worked for us;

 

They may bring one thing to do. Notebook & pencils, coloring book & crayons, crocheting or knitting. I found that packing a whole bag of choices was too many things, and they tended to spread the mess out all over the pew.

 

Ask them to sit reverently without their item for a certain length of time. My kids know they can't get out their crayons until after the Sacrament is passed. This means they have to sit quietly & listen for the first 30 minutes.

 

Practice being reverent at home. We would have them sit quietly on the couch and watch a short, church related movie or cartoon. If they could all sit quietly they could have a treat.

 

Positive reinforcement only. I don't berate them when they are badly behaved. I praise them almost to the point of absurdity when they are good.

 

Ignore them. I am there to worship. My dh & I make a point of sitting together and he sits between me and the kids. I get distracted by every little behavior and he doesn't. If it gets to the point where the child is disturbing the worship of others, and by this I mean others who are truly trying to worship, not the nosy neighbor who is craning her neck to see whose child made that noise, then dh takes him or her out into the foyer where they sit on a chair and have no fun, until they realize that being back in the pew with the family and their one activity is better.

 

Before you think I am trying to make it sound like I am the best parent ever, I have had my 3 yo dd stand up in the pew and shriek "You are the worstest mom ever!" when I wouldn't let her play the singing bear she slipped into my bag. And then yell, "Noooooo! I want Mooooommy," as dh carried her out under his arm!

 

It can be done, but it is a process that is never really completed. When we visited my family this Summer, my sister and I were giggling in the pew just like when we were kids and my dad gave us the "shush" glare from the stand and we shut right up, years of conditioning, I guess.

 

Amber in SJ

[Karenciavo]

Ah, the stage whisper.

 

My son has been known to "whisper" from time to time. "Come on! He's going to pray again?" was one particular gem. :glare::lol:

[Aussenfay]

Our children (5,3,22mos) all sit through four hours total of church on Sundays (Bible study, morning service, afternoon service). We have a 15 minute break and a 2 hour lunch break. Our oldest does bring her Bible and occasionally we allow her a notebook to illustrate what she is learning. They all LOVE church (truly!!).

 

With practice, it is certainly reasonable to expect a 5-yr-old to sit through church quietly. You can have fidgety little ones clasp their hands in their laps, sit on their hands, or even stand at the end of the pew. You have said your child is well-behaved without spanking, so treat this situation as your would anything else you want child to do. If he can sit with you in a doctor's waiting room or in a checkout line, he can probably sit through church.

 

Sitting quietly for an extended length of time is a valuable skill. Really :)

Edited September 21, 2009 by Aussenfay

[HRAAB]

All my children have attended Mass with us since they were infants. When babies, I would often find myself in the vestibule or cry room, but little by little they learned to sit relatively still and be quiet. By the age of 5 they could sit for the hour or so that Mass lasts. I always brought their own prayer books or Bibles for them to hold. I guess they never knew anything else; it might have been different if they had been attending a service for children and then were all of a sudden expected to sit still for an hour. I would give him a chance to adjust.

 

Janet

[Harriet Vane]

Another hearty recommendation for Parenting in the Pew. It's a lovely, common-sense approach to including children in church. It's not written from a punitive perspective at all. The author has a desire for children to be welcomed and a part of worship, and has wonderful suggestions for how to do so.

 

My kids have always had to be in church with me, for varying lengths of time. We used to attend a church that had services that ran 3 hours or more. Sometimes I could leave dd in the nursery, but more often I could not. (Long story--very dysfunctional church.) The church we attend now has 2-hour services, and the kids stay with us until the sermon.

 

The kids are expected to participate in the more active parts of the service. They stand for worship and sing with us, and they are expected to pray with us. It's active, so it's easy for them to join in (though for some reason they are shy about singing with the adults and so usually just stand--if they sing it's quietly and without moving their mouths much:lol:).

 

When dd was small and had to stay with me through a long sermon, she would snack a little, color a little, and look at Bible story books a little. She also liked to simply cuddle on my lap or dh's a little.

 

In our current church, ds leaves at sermon time, but dd is too old to leave. She stays with us for the sermon. She and I both bring along a little handiwork like knitting or cross-stitch--it really, really helps us pay better attention when we have something in our hands. Every now and then I quiz dd after church about the sermon to make sure she is paying attention.

 

With practice, I think your 5yo will get used to the new system and new church expectations. Just hang in there and keep trying--it'll all come together.

[petepie2]

DD5 and DS3 sit with us during our 1 hour 15 minute worship service. We pulled each of them out of the nursery when they were 3 years old to start training them to participate in the worship service. Our DD was much easier than our DS, but both do quite well. We have them participate as much as possible in the music part of the service. I have coloring books and a pad of paper for each of them. My DS also has a "Busy Bible" that he can only play with at church. Sometimes, we bring a children's Story Bible. We sit in the back of the church. I don't necessarily expect them to sit perfectly still, but I do expect them to be quiet, and I make those expectations very clear.

 

I read "Parenting in the Pew" a few months ago. As a matter of fact, I loaned it to someone today. If I remember correctly, the author of the book doesn't approve of kids having coloring books, etc to keep them occupied. I could be wrong on that. However, in my experience, my DD5 at least seems to be listening to the pastor while she is coloring. More than once he has read a piece of Scripture that she has memorized and she will hear it and look up at me and whisper "that's one of my verses!" So, I think coloring or some similiar activity can actually help a child with the wiggles and enable them to actually listen. I'm always reminding DD that while she is coloring she needs to be listening to the pastor. This morning in church, she decided to copy from her dad's sermon notes.

 

It's a training process and some kids are going to need more training than others. What may be easy for a particular 3 year old could be hard for a particular 5 year old. You just start where you are and work on it. It helps to make expectations very clear and discuss them beforehand, even throughout the week. It also helps to know the benefits of having your children in church with you and what you are trying to accomplish. I suggest reading this article by Noel Piper as food for thought on the importance of families worshipping together.

[Dirtroad]

It is reasonable. It is a common period of time to sit in church for young ones. Best answer it to prepare him at home with practice sessions and lots of discussion. We gave DD pencil & paper to help her along also.

[BikeBookBread]

I am a big believer in patiently training my kids to exercise the skill of stillness. I guess some would consider my expectations on the low side, but the slow and encouraging method has worked here.

 

...But I am in this for the long haul and I am not going to put the thumbscrews to my kids in the name of worshipping God.

 

Relax and be patient and train. It will come if you want it too.

 

I completely agree with you Natalieclare! We have chosen not to send our dd5 to children's church and keep her with us. Yes, some sundays are more trying than others (today was off the charts...) but parenting is a long-haul project!

 

I love Parenting in the Pew -- I just got it this week in fact (after the communion question came up last week) and find it not legalistic in the least. However, we do allow crayons in church for DD5 during the sermon. I do the quiet whisper to her all through the service. This helps. Today something funny came up, though. She must have been listening at some level because our pastor used the phrase "stoning disobedient children" :001_huh: and she gasped...I had to explain the context and she calmed down. (Pastor was in Matthew 5:17 - 20 speaking about Christ not coming to abolish the Law, but to fulfill the Law, and how all of the Law must be obeyed, technically...well, you had to be there...he was NOT condoning stoning!!!! :lol::lol: but it was kind of funny)

 

I read "Parenting in the Pew" a few months ago. As a matter of fact, I loaned it to someone today. If I remember correctly, the author of the book doesn't approve of kids having coloring books, etc to keep them occupied. I could be wrong on that. However, in my experience, my DD5 at least seems to be listening to the pastor while she is coloring. More than once he has read a piece of Scripture that she has memorized and she will hear it and look up at me and whisper "that's one of my verses!" So, I think coloring or some similiar activity can actually help a child with the wiggles and enable them to actually listen. I'm always reminding DD that while she is coloring she needs to be listening to the pastor. This morning in church, she decided to copy from her dad's sermon notes.

 

It's a training process and some kids are going to need more training than others. What may be easy for a particular 3 year old could be hard for a particular 5 year old. You just start where you are and work on it. It helps to make expectations very clear and discuss them beforehand, even throughout the week. It also helps to know the benefits of having your children in church with you and what you are trying to accomplish. I suggest reading this article by Noel Piper as food for thought on the importance of families worshipping together.

 

You are correct that PITP does NOT advocate coloring. I find note-taking helpful, so why shouldn't my child find this helpful, too, in her limited way? But I do recommend the book as a whole.

Edited September 21, 2009 by BikeBookBread

[Unicorn.]

Haven't read all the responses, but try bringing along a bag of these: picture books, pad and pencils (or crayons), felt toys, animal crackers, stuffed animals, or any other toy that doesn't make noise. And if all else fails, use benadryl. Just kidding- kinda. :0)

[FriedClams]

We found the book Parenting in the Pew to be very helpful. My children did better sitting up front--they felt more a part of things and it was easier to pay attention (although I was more on edge knowing they would distract others if they were wiggly). The book talks about making little pictures to help the children understand what is going on, and other good strategies. You might also consider allowing a pad of paper and a few crayons (like a small set of eight) or a pencil for him to "take notes" himself.

 

:iagree:

 

I think it's completely reasonable to expect him to sit quietly and pay attention. My DS is almost 7 and hasn't been to the nursery since he was 3. (He is a PISTOL so I feel your pain!) We do family integrated worship and kids younger than mine sit quietly. I would recommend against bags of toys, etc. The more distractions you have the wigglier most kids are. They also make a lot of noise looking for things, fidgeting, etc and it makes it harder to hear for everyone nearby. Tell him the rules, draw the sermon for him as you go, have him squeeze your hand when he hears a certain word in the song - stuff like that to keep him involved. It's a training time - so don't expect perfection!

[Tutor]

Our children have always stayed with us for the entire church service. We have only taken them out to nurse and to go to the bathroom (although by 5, as long as we take them to the bathroom before the service and they are not sick they should not have to be taken out to go to the bathroom either). I think some wiggling is expected. We have found that giving them ways to figure out how far through the service we are is helpful... our 5yo knows there are 5 songs in the service, so he counts the songs. Our now 8yo used to check off each part of the service in the bulletin so he knew where we were. He still asks, "Are we at 'sermon' yet?" ;)

 

In The Hidden Art of Homemaking, Edith Schaeffer talks about (and demonstrates) drawing illustrations of the sermon so kids can follow along. I was amazed at how much this helped. Sitting in the front helps hold their attention. We allow them to finish papers from Sunday School or to draw pictures. As they get older, we ask them to pick out words in the sermon and draw pictures of those... this leads to note-taking later on. My dh also asks the kids questions about the service afterward, so the kids try to pay attention so they can answer his questions.

 

HTH.

[petepie2]

Something else to add.....We made the mistake in the beginning with our DS3 of bringing too many things to keep him occupied. He would do one thing, and then 45 seconds later, he'd be going through his bag looking for something else, play with it for a short time, and then looking again.... I wasn't able to do anything but tend to him. So we thought it best to limit his bag to a coloring book, a pad of paper, and his Busy Bible. I told him beforehand that those would be the only things that he would have and that if he didn't want to do those things, he would need to sit quietly in my lap. Well, this new strategy seems to work with him....

[SonshineLearner]

I have a 6 year old... and when he was 5, we started attending a church that he had to sit through. He ended up being able to do it. Training is what it's about. Training.. a few minutes at a time... and also having activities. I take his unifix cubes and dump them on the floor before the service....or cuisinaire rods...etc. Coloring books...going over what's expected before...

And, having a daily worship time at home, where they are to sit on their bottoms...sing when appropriate... listen to a bible time (you reading it) etc.

Believe me, my child is the wiggliest... little guy.. who would jump off a mountain top if he could... It's possible... it just takes a certain amount of understanding, clear expectations... practice... and of course... expecting the level of obedience that I am sure you already do:-)

Carrie:-)

[Heather in WI]

At our church, children sit in worship after they turn 3. I can't say my boys are always perfect, but for the most part they do sit still. Our service is 1 hour and 15 minutes. One hour of that is preaching. We don't allow coloring or toys, but other parents do. They are expected to sit quietly still and follow along the service -- listening, singing, or praying when appropriate. We view this as expected behavior.

[CAMom]

 

 

 

Cassandra has some great ideas and I second the recommendation for Parenting in the Pew. I can't remember if this idea is in there or not, but sometimes the speakers in our church give the kids a word or two to tally up while they are speaking. ie if the sermon is based on 1 Cor 13, perhaps they would keep a tally of how many times the word love was spoken.

 

 

 

We did this when our older kids were younger. They each had their own little spiral notebook that they took to church. Each Sunday, they would write the sermon title and the Scripture address (which they just copied out of the bulletin). My husband would write 3 or 4 words they should listen for and they would tally them.

 

As they got older, they would each write down a couple of points as they listened to the sermon and dad would read them in the afternoon.

 

Heather, you know my Mr. Naughty Pants.;) He just turned 4 about 10 days ago and he sits through our service with no problem (most mornings :)). He's been in with us since birth. There was a season where we had to take him out a lot but now it's rare that he has to be removed. Our service is about an hour and 15 minutes.

 

He takes his magnadoodle every week. Once in a while he has a small car to hold onto. I used to bring a little bag with us when he had a harder time sitting still. I rotated what was in there. Some of his favorites were a clipboard with plain paper and stickers, a deck of colorful "flashcards," a small puzzle, colored pencils and a small notebook, etc.

 

It was much more of a challenge to encourage him in sitting still and participating than it was the older kids. They were just natural conformists.;) But, Hudson not only sits nicely through the service now but he participates. He follows the liturgy. He recites the Apostles' Creed and the Lord's Prayer. He sings the Doxology and the Amen at the end. He stands when we stand and sits when we sit.

 

It just takes some practice. :)

[tex-mex]

When my lil' guy was that age, I'd pack a backpack of snacks, drink, and items to keep him quietly busy. He'd lounge on the seats or lie on the floor and read, color, or quietly tinker with legos. We had no children's church or sunday school back then. During the praise segment, the pastor would encourage the kiddos to come up front and dance with the older ones who had flags or banners. Worship would be over an hour. Very pentecostal Holy Ghost time! It helped to get the "wiggles" out and settle them down for the message which ran for an hour and half to two hours. Then there was always the ministry time afterwards of laying on hands. prayers, and more music. Then dismissal. Church would be 3-4 hours. Son is Asperger's and ADD -- he was a gem -- really quiet when he needed to be. Of course in our church, loudness was the key back then! LOL

 

Dunno if that will fly in your church? The others saying of the book sounds real good too for ideas? HTH!

Edited September 21, 2009 by tex-mex

[Amber in SJ]

Well ladies, I cursed myself by replying to this thread. My little dears were full on dreadful today at church just to show that clearly I have no idea what I am talking about. Please disregard anything I said previously.

 

I did want to say that when I said I allow coloring, it all has to be what we consider Sabbath appropriate, not My Little Pony or whatever is in the drawer.

 

We use the phrase "Sabbath appropriate" a little too much around here. A couple of Sundays ago my youngest & I were sick so we stayed home from church. I was too sick to worry about what DVD he was watching. Imagine my surprise when he opened the front door and said to the Bishop's wife,

 

"You can come in. We are just watching inappropriate TV."

 

Oh yeah. The highlight of my parenting career.

 

Amber in SJ

[tex-mex]

I also recommend reading Parenting in the Pew by Robbie Castleman. It's a great resource for children of all ages.

 

ETA: Don't feel to self-conscious about your son's behavior in church. Since all the families are "parenting in the pew" along with you - they can sympathize!! That's what I like about churches with this model - they are very family friendly and forgiving when it comes to little disruptions - they've all been there!! At least that's been my experience.

 

ETA again: I would suggest expecting your little guy to participate just like everyone else - standing when everyone is singing/praying, memorizing any creeds or songs that are song on a regular basis - so that he will fell that he is a participant in worship and not just waiting for children's church to begin.

 

:iagree: That has been our experience. Son would be in with the rest of the church and we'd encourage him to join in on the worship, prayer, and tell us what he thought of the sermon. It does sink in! LOL

[Vida Winter]

I have a 5yo dd who has the same problem. The way I solve it for her is to bring something that can be held quietly. I have a few colorful quilt squares that never got made into a quilt. I like to bring a beanbag animal or other soft ragdoll that can have fun being wrapped up with the "quilt." If you don't have quilt squares you could use any fabric remnants that are soft or have an interesting texture or pattern.

 

For us, this works even better than pen/paper/crayons since those inevitably get dropped and make noise.

 

If all else fails and I have forgotten to bring any toy at all, I let her hold my rosary.

[Dirtroad]

Tips about too many things is a good one. It turns into the toy store. Just have a few things, if you chose this route.

 

Note taking. We always had pencil & paper and would allow drawing b/c our preacher talks a very long time. But we did similar to another person posted, we encouraged particpation & active listening..... ours was for as long as possible & we changed our expectations with their age, etc. DD was younger & more "wiggly". She could listen & draw pictures about the sermon. However, as that got harder... she could rest & lean on me... or she could draw her own things. DS drew also... but he was older & quieter type and could make it longer.

 

Note of caution about food... don't use it. It teaches that food is to occupy boredom. I know little ones snack... but in church it isn't the same thing. It teaches them to use food as a "time filling tool". As a person with a weight issue, I worked hard to not do this to my kids... never eat in boredom or to fill the time. **Plus, it is a sanctuary & relegious worship and that can be a whole other can of worms.

 

Show him what is expected & he will learn quickly. Also, remember, he is learning to worship and it is good for them to do so! So much in church is about entertainment today.... not necessarily scripture & worship.;)

[unsinkable]

All my children have attended Mass with us since they were infants. When babies, I would often find myself in the vestibule or cry room, but little by little they learned to sit relatively still and be quiet. By the age of 5 they could sit for the hour or so that Mass lasts. I always brought their own prayer books or Bibles for them to hold. I guess they never knew anything else; it might have been different if they had been attending a service for children and then were all of a sudden expected to sit still for an hour. I would give him a chance to adjust.

 

Janet

 

We've had some great priests who say things like:

 

"Don't worry about crying babies in Mass. It makes me happy b/c it means people are having babies and they are bringing them to Mass!"