I don't think women should be doormats. But women ARE told to submit to both God and our husbands. We don't get to say "I know I didn't live in submission to your will, but I didn't want to be the only one doing it". I am not advocating anything like the perverted picture of submission that so many people on here have witnessed (abusive, not allowed to have opinions or disagree). Submission is not a means to and end but a matter of heart obedience to God. Much worthy of discussion here (especially for those who are more familiar with the crazy side of a man-made "movement") http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/11/14/nlq-faq-does-patriarchy-glorify-god/. I saved the link a few days ago but only read it tonight. I'm not sure I would agree with everything point by point, but it is worthy of reading IMO. I have not known many couples where 'unhealthy submission' is practiced. I AM surrounded by beautiful examples of loving, God-honoring marriages. It is a shame that God's Word gets perverted and twisted into something that does not glorify Him at all. But I don't hold that against God ;).

Oh, I've done a lot of deeper scrutiny but if I mentioned it here some sweet people would truly lose their minds :). I'm not looking to open any more touchy subjects or provoke anyone. But I do believe that God is powerful enough to inspire His perfect Word and to preserve it accurately FOREVER. God used imperfect men to write his perfect Word, and He can (and did) use imperfect men to accurately preserve it for all generations.

FWIW, I don't think anyone should take the exhortation for women to submit to their husbands to an extreme. There is the danger of taking this one concept of wifely submission and elevating it as a central tenet of a "new gospel". I don't consider it any more important than the exhortation to love one another or exhortations to serve God/grow in grace and truth/live Holy and sanctified lives in obedience to God. It's all part of the package.

April-ish? DH picked up a friend of ours who was on a missions trip to Mexico because he got sick on his road trip home. This man was VERY ILL and didn't completely recover for weeks. Hubby drove our friend the 10 hours home. Two days later my hubby was so sick that he laid in bed for days. It was the first time he missed work due to sickness in ten years. High fever, aches, hot/cold flashes, awful cough, congestion, headache...the kids and I were mildly sick (barely registered as a cold) but that was it. We thought it was strange because we are usually the ones who are sick and he is healthy as a horse :)

I used to clear my throat a lot when I was a kid. The doctors told my mom I was just trying to annoy her. She knew I was not and persisted--turns out I had asthma. I'm not connecting any dots in your case, just keep a casual eye on it :)

Perhaps I worded this poorly. I was not questioning your salvation, but pointing out that I could understand your position more if you were not saved. To be saved and argue away or ignore verses that clearly lay out God's design for the family does not make sense to me. You don't argue on Scripture, but on your own wisdom. As a Christian discussing a Biblical concept it does not make sense to counter an argument based on God's wisdom with one based solely on your own. For the record, I am not a subscriber to the "patriarchy" movement (nor any "movement"). I am not pro wife-only submission BUT a wife can only control her own submission in obedience to God. I hate when husbands abuse their authority to appear spiritual to men. They walk up to church all spiffy (Bible under their arm) while the dowdy wife trails five feet behind lugging four children, a diaper bag, and food for potluck. This unfortunately happens. Submission does not mean not expressing opinions or agreeing on everything all the time. This is pretty clear: Ephesians 5:19-33 19Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. the body of Christ (the Church) 22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Wives: submit to your husband, be subject to your husband, reverence your husband Husbands: love your wives, lay down your life for your wives (this doesn't just mean death), nourish your wife, cherish your wife Pretty sweet deal, IMO :). On another note, God promised to preserve his Word forever. It is not hidden away in some obscure text in a language that the majority of the Christian world can not read. All Scripture is not profitable for doctrine for all people, but all Scripture is profitable for instruction and edification.

I believe all of these are fine except chamomile. Not sure about rooibos. Cinnamon, rosehips, ginger root, lemon grass, peppermint, and orange peels are okay.

I just ordered Red Raspberry Leaf, nettle, and alfalfa from Bulk Herb Store. They also have a pre-blended mama's brew. I am making it myself (more bang for the buck) but without the peppermint. I drink peppermint after delivery (c-sections). We are expecting #4 and I am seeing the doctor tomorrow after our big ultrasound--I will verify with him. From the above site: and

The point is that submission is not a matter of obtaining a desired result, but it IS a matter of obedience to God. The Bible is clear on this. For someone who is unsaved, I have no problem if they want to argue this. Their arguments are based on "I think", "I feel", "In my experience", or "In my opinion"--which really means diddly to be. Worldy wisdom changes. It is a shame that people take advantage of submission or abuse their wives--it is called sin. That does not make God's Word void.

Yes--my husband and my pastor :) Biblical submission has been perverted. Biblical submission has nothing to do with being a doormat. It has everything to do with a husband and wife fulfilling their Biblical roles. Wives are to submit to their husbands' leadership and authority. Husbands are supposed to lay down their lives in service to their wives and family. This often involves submitting his will to his wife's for the good of the family, but never abdicating his role as head of the family. I understand that some people don't like the idea, but the Bible does say that the way to win a lost husband is by your chaste conversation (behavior), not by nagging or hitting him over the head with Scripture. God WILL honor your submission and obedience (if not on earth then certainly in Glory). By the way, I have also seen this work in reverse. Husband got saved and loved his alcoholic, druggy, adulterous wife "as Christ loved the Church". She is saved and they are raising Godly children and serving the Lord together.

What will happen when you say "no" to "burning the midnight oil"? My hubby would step in and address her hubby at this point :D. Perhaps you could suggest that in lieu of nighttime help that he try to arrange a mother's helper for an hour or two on the afternoons that her mother is unavailable (sleeping for night shift). She could nap, shower, catch up on laundry... I would pray that God give the husband wisdom in what is good for both his own family AND the church family. Strange situation...

You have enabled a monster :grouphug:. The nightime feedings by volunteers have got to stop asap. I can understand nighttime volunteers for twins and nicu babies, but to do so much for such an extended period of time is exceedingly generous. If everyone is so committed to this mom breastfeeding then the nighttime volunteers should have been organized to change diapers and help get babies back to sleep, not to feed them. I don't think you can really say anything because in a way, you had a part in her breastfeeding struggles. It sounds like everyone did the best they could at the time, and now you're dealing with some unexpected consequences. I hope this doesn't sound unkind. It sounds like your heart is given to generosity and sacrificial service :grouphug:. Stop the food deliveries (kindly, perhaps a note with one last dinner saying "It has been our pleasure to serve you during your time of need. Our prayers are with you as you raise your sweet babies for the Lord's glory...) If you don't do something soon, then you risk nurturing a bad spirit in both yourself and your church family. Her behavior is atrocious, but you can't change that.

I'll let the experts weigh in on what it might be, but I will say that my kids sometimes get those rashes from fevers. Am I understanding correctly that she has blue hands/feet/legs up to the knees? I don't like that one bit and would not rest until someone could tell me why this is perfectly normal (even then I would have it verified by someone else).