Why aren't food stamps regulated like WIC?

[happypamama]

Make it so you can purchase only healthy food with food stamps. They are FOOD stamps. Not party stamps. Not fun stamps. I also don't think there is anything un-Christian to think that people who CAN better their circumstances should. If you are able to work, and can find a job..then do it. If you cannot, for reasons out of your control...then yes, I am happy to help.

 

 

In PA, if you want to receive food stamps, you must show that you are working, are actively applying for work, going to school, or are caring for a child under 5 (and only one of those is allowed per family). (Not sure how disabled works in that.) And I believe there is a lifetime limit for them at all, so it's not like you could just decide to keep having babies so you didn't have to work. I really don't know how one would really game the system in this state (I'm sure someone could; I just don't know how you'd do it easily).

 

And while I generally agree that people should eat healthy food, I also don't really care about the occasional junk food, but more importantly, who is going to decide what's "healthy?" For a diabetic (or just someone who feels better on low carb foods), a lot of whole grains and low fat items just may not be healthy. But other people still hold to the "low fat, high grain" model and feel that eating full fat dairy isn't healthy. Others feel that a vegetarian diet is the healthiest; others lean toward a paleo model. Yeah, there are probably a few things we could all agree on that aren't healthy, but beyond that, I think people should be able to choose for themselves what they feel are the healthiest foods, rather than have the government regulate it for them.

[Joanne]

You can buy urine on eBay, inject it into your bladder with a needle, and test clean.

 

Some states have done trial runs of the testing to get benefits thing. It cost more to run than it saved in welfare fraud.

 

 

 

Texas, at least, is changing the protocol of UA's due to the number of those trying to beat the test. (Criminal justice clients on probation).

 

That wouldn't catch the type of bypass you posted about, but it has changed the fake genitals, and hidden recepticals.

[Parrothead]

 

 

You'd think I'd see it with my clients (many of whom are in the criminal justice population), but I don't see abuse at high numbers there, either.

So are you referring to people in and out of general population within the prison system or to people who work within the criminal justice system such as LEOs, jailers, probation officers?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

 

In PA, if you want to receive food stamps, you must show that you are working, are actively applying for work, going to school, or are caring for a child under 5 (and only one of those is allowed per family). (Not sure how disabled works in that.) And I believe there is a lifetime limit for them at all, so it's not like you could just decide to keep having babies so you didn't have to work. I really don't know how one would really game the system in this state (I'm sure someone could; I just don't know how you'd do it easily).

 

Not true for food stamps.

 

This is true for public assistance/cash/welfare.

[Joanne]

So are you referring to people in and out of general population within the prison system or to people who work within the criminal justice system such as LEOs, jailers, probation officers?

 

 

Some of my case load are clients who are from the criminal population, often having accepted an alternative to incarceration for their crimes, or who have violated terms of their probation with a dirty UA.

[Parrothead]

Some of my case load are clients who are from the criminal population, often having accepted an alternative to incarceration for their crimes, or who have violated terms of their probation with a dirty UA.

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. I'm blaming my confusion on the head pain.

 

You stay safe.

[Mergath]

 

And, they were NOT buying garbage food instead of healthy food because it was cheaper.....how do I know ? Because they were buying the most expensive brands of garbage food ! Not the cheaper store brand sweet cereal or fried-corn-batter-cheese-powder-coated snacks, but name-brand Froot Loops and Cheetos. The brands were a big deal. On the WIC purchases, we had to put back expensive name brand items and switch them out with the budget brands....and the recipients were often very irritated by this. They wanted the name brand milk, cheese, whole grain cereal, orange juice and beans.

 

 

I'd be pissed, too. Back when we were on WIC, we got the name brand milk because it was the only kind that didn't have rbgh in it, and when your child already has delays because of a genetic disorder, the last thing you want is to pump them full of artificial hormones and chemicals. If some nosy cashier had taken it upon herself to judge the suitability of my brand choices, I would have been pretty upset, too. Just because someone is low income doesn't mean they deserve to be treated like a child.

[jennynd]

 

 

I've seen one.

 

A daycare client was getting WIC, and didn't marry her baby daddy (they lived together) so that she didn't lose benefits. She offered me boxes of cereal. :laugh:

 

They had a new house in my old subdivision, new cars, etc. They were both working, but I have to assume she did not include his income in the

 

 

My dd's old care giver was like that. 3 kids with the same guy,live with him but not married. She gets WIC, free health care for all 3 kids. In the mean time, all her kids wear name brand and she bought 2k camera with 2k lense..

[mommaduck]

As a cashier, I loved WIC. I saw people taking home nutritious food that they didn't tend to buy otherwise. Often the WIC food was the only worthwhile food they took home.

 

And, they were NOT buying garbage food instead of healthy food because it was cheaper.....how do I know ? Because they were buying the most expensive brands of garbage food ! Not the cheaper store brand sweet cereal or fried-corn-batter-cheese-powder-coated snacks, but name-brand Froot Loops and Cheetos. The brands were a big deal. On the WIC purchases, we had to put back expensive name brand items and switch them out with the budget brands....and the recipients were often very irritated by this. They wanted the name brand milk, cheese, whole grain cereal, orange juice and beans.

 

I have also been poor and barely able to afford food, and without a proper kitchen. I was able to find nutritious food on a very tight budget, and that could be prepared in a hot pot. It helped a lot that I worked in the store and knew what the food bargains were. Not having a good working freezer was another complication, just a small fridge. It can still be done. I ate more canned stuff that I was happy about, but it was cheap canned stuff, and it was still way better than chips and froot loops and the other garbage foods I scanned for people who paid for the junky food with stamps.

 

Every once in a while someone would come through with stamps and they were stocking up on low priced nutritious foods and meal-stretchers to use them with. For the same purchase amount, they got an impressive amount of healthy food to take home. It was rare to see this, and I learned from those people.

 

I am very much in favor of food welfare. I do not resent contributing to it, at all. And I would not be in favor of creating more hoops for people to jump through to get it. But I do think that it would be more helpful to the recipients to have the use of the benefit restricted to foods that are not empty-calorie snack or dessert foods, or high sugar content cereals, or breakfast foods that are really just morning desserts.

I'd be pissed, too. Back when we were on WIC, we got the name brand milk because it was the only kind that didn't have rbgh in it, and when your child already has delays because of a genetic disorder, the last thing you want is to pump them full of artificial hormones and chemicals. If some nosy cashier had taken it upon herself to judge the suitability of my brand choices, I would have been pretty upset, too. Just because someone is low income doesn't mean they deserve to be treated like a child.

When I was on WIC, it ticked me off, not that they were switching out brands, but that I was going by exactly what was on the list (the list consisted of mostly name brand stuff with no off brand alternative) or when I would try to get a healthier cereal and was turned down because it wasn't on the list, but the sugary "iron fortified" carp was. Or the time that I could not eat hard cheeses and the ignorant cashier (not one I was used to dealing with) did not understand that Muenster cheese was a type of cheese, not a flavoured cheese (therefore, it had always been allowed, but she refused to check it out). Then to not have ounces on acceptable things not add up evenly to the amounts on the cheques, since WIC doesn't keep up with the amounts companies are putting out...there were things we were told on the list that we could get, but no acceptable sizes in them. Oh, and then arguments over which veggies or types of acceptable veggies, etc. The fact that I had children that ate real food and extended breast fed instead of baby food or rice cereal. The in office harassment of what my child ate, because the portions expected to "across the board" rather than specific to our extended nursing and real food experience. The lady expected you to measure each portion exactly or you received a lecture.

And then the embarrassment of standing there in line, holding up a line of people that are letting you know that they are irritated at you for holding them up with your WIC cheques, while the cashier inspects every. single. item. and dragging over the manager when you have found either a healthier or less expensive alternative, but following the rules of the list, they still get to decide to reject something that is actually acceptable.

 

Yes, we get irritable. Now having a child that is gluten free, I can understand how much more frustrating for parents like Mergath it is. Honestly, I found WIC to not even be worth the hassle. Now, could you imagine what a mess it would be if food stamps were that regulated?! People with carts full of food holding up a line while every ounce is accounted for and accepted or rejected?

[cathmom]

 

 

When I was on WIC, it ticked me off, not that they were switching out brands, but that I was going by exactly what was on the list (the list consisted of mostly name brand stuff with no off brand alternative) or when I would try to get a healthier cereal and was turned down because it wasn't on the list, but the sugary "iron fortified" carp was. Or the time that I could not eat hard cheeses and the ignorant cashier (not one I was used to dealing with) did not understand that Muenster cheese was a type of cheese, not a flavoured cheese (therefore, it had always been allowed, but she refused to check it out). Then to not have ounces on acceptable things not add up evenly to the amounts on the cheques, since WIC doesn't keep up with the amounts companies are putting out...there were things we were told on the list that we could get, but no acceptable sizes in them. Oh, and then arguments over which veggies or types of acceptable veggies, etc. The fact that I had children that ate real food and extended breast fed instead of baby food or rice cereal. The in office harassment of what my child ate, because the portions expected to "across the board" rather than specific to our extended nursing and real food experience. The lady expected you to measure each portion exactly or you received a lecture.

And then the embarrassment of standing there in line, holding up a line of people that are letting you know that they are irritated at you for holding them up with your WIC cheques, while the cashier inspects every. single. item. and dragging over the manager when you have found either a healthier or less expensive alternative, but following the rules of the list, they still get to decide to reject something that is actually acceptable.

 

Yes, we get irritable. Now having a child that is gluten free, I can understand how much more frustrating for parents like Mergath it is. Honestly, I found WIC to not even be worth the hassle. Now, could you imagine what a mess it would be if food stamps were that regulated?! People with carts full of food holding up a line while every ounce is accounted for and accepted or rejected?

 

You are so right! In fact, I have traumatic WIC flashbacks when I see people using them! I remember times when the store didn't have the right things so I would lose that benefit if I used the check, or when I tried to get four 9 oz boxes of an accepted cereal, only to be told that I couldn't get boxes smaller than 10 oz, even though the check specified 36 oz, and on and on, wasting hours over my lifetime trying to make sure I had the right things, only to be told I didn't, etc. Yes, sometimes that WIC check was the next meal for my children, but honestly, poor people have enough stress in their lives, so I was grateful, but I'm even more grateful to be able to pay for my own food now!

[laundrycrisis]

 

 

I'd be pissed, too. Back when we were on WIC, we got the name brand milk because it was the only kind that didn't have rbgh in it, and when your child already has delays because of a genetic disorder, the last thing you want is to pump them full of artificial hormones and chemicals. If some nosy cashier had taken it upon herself to judge the suitability of my brand choices, I would have been pretty upset, too. Just because someone is low income doesn't mean they deserve to be treated like a child.

 

[laundrycrisis]

We were not being "nosy". It was the state law that we had to use the cheapest brands for WIC purchases, and that was all the store could be reimbursed for. And my cashier days were way before RGBH was even acknowledged.

[Mergath]

We were not being "nosy". It was the state law that we had to use the cheapest brands for WIC purchases, and that was all the store could be reimbursed for. And my cashier days were way before RGBH was even acknowledged.

 

 

Really? I guess we don't have that here, at least not back when I was on WIC. Here, as long as you buy the variety and size specified, you can get whatever brand you like.

[laundrycrisis]

 

 

Really? I guess we don't have that here, at least not back when I was on WIC. Here, as long as you buy the variety and size specified, you can get whatever brand you like.

 

[laundrycrisis]

Yes. The store had a contract with the WIC office and a preapproved list of brands for each item that we all had to memorize. If a WIC customer needed an exception, the WIC office had to write it in on their form. We were not allowed to let them make substitutions unless it was on their form.

[phathui5]

I was using my food stamps card to pay at our local Mennonite discount foods store and was feeling embarassed. The cashier, who is from Canada, told me that there, every family gets a monthly child allowance because they value providing for children. What we get in assistance here is far less than we would get if we lived there:

 

http://www.cra-arc.g...b/menu-eng.html

 

I remember being surprised when someone came through with fresh produce and fresh chicken and she paid for it with food stamps, because it was so unusual to see real food come through on a stamp purchase.

 

While I've been the cashier and seen what you're describing, I also am the shopper who uses their food stamps to get the organic selections at the scratch-n-dent store and fresh foods from the health food store. And I've seen people write about begrudging families the things that I buy because they can't fit organics into their budget, but you know what? That's my "splurge," is being able to get healthy foods with FS, we don't have other budget "extras."

 

Please remember, everyone, that you don't know the situation of the person using food stamps. They might have bought expensive item X at the thrift store.

 

Thank you. Hopefully people aren't judging my six-month old being dressed in Robeez, Gymboree and Baby Gap when we're paying with WIC and FS. We have those because they were passed down to us in good condition from someone who was done with them. We weren't able to go out buy them.

[cdrumm4448]

I find it rather strange that anyone would consider "splurging" with food stamps. I don't want to hear how the poor need junk to perk them up. Buy what you want with your own money. When using public funds, the most healthful food is all that should be allowed.

 

Things don't make people happy, and that includes junk food.

[Scarlett]

I find it rather strange that anyone would consider "splurging" with food stamps. I don't want to hear how the poor need junk to perk them up. Buy what you want with your own money. When using public funds, the most healthful food is all that should be allowed.

 

Things don't make people happy, and that includes junk food.

 

Did you even read this thread?

[BlueTaelon]

It's not a judgment, it's economics. It's less expensive to cook from scratch, it's also healthier which means lower medical costs. Chances are if someone is receiving food stamps they are also receiving other aid. I know that's not always the case. I like the one state that allows plants and seeds to be purchased with food stamps. Truly disabled people should have another type of help available to them. People are not disabled just because they are poor so they should be able to help take care of themselves.

 

 

All 50 states allow you to buy plants (including fruit trees) and seeds, the trick is finding stores that sell plants and take FS and low income people often don't have access to land to plant a garden. I know here our soil is terrible and a garden is $$$ from water costs to soil amendments:(

[mommaduck]

 

 

All 50 states allow you to buy plants (including fruit trees) and seeds, the trick is finding stores that sell plants and take FS and low income people often don't have access to land to plant a garden. I know here our soil is terrible and a garden is $$$ from water costs to soil amendments:(

Never, ever, ever heard of this and have not ever seen it in any of the literature that tells you what you may or may not purchase. Link to information, please.

[Mrs Mungo]

 

Never, ever, ever heard of this and have not ever seen it in any of the literature that tells you what you may or may not purchase. Link to information, please.

 

http://www.snapgardens.org/ (the site has links to government regs and more)

[mommaduck]

Would have been helpful to have had this information passed out at the office. Wow, I am just stunned! I passed up a community garden opportunity because we didn't have the money for plants or seeds.

[MrsBasil]

Yes. The store had a contract with the WIC office and a preapproved list of brands for each item that we all had to memorize. If a WIC customer needed an exception, the WIC office had to write it in on their form. We were not allowed to let them make substitutions unless it was on their form.

 

 

This is how it is here. I had a brochure which spelled out exactly which brands I was allowed to buy and what foods I was allowed to buy. For instance, I could buy Cheerios or certain brands/types of cereal or Cream of Wheat, but not oatmeal. There was one brand of milk we could buy and even if a different brand was on sale I could not get that one.

 

I could get brown rice or corn tortillas, which was not brand specific, but had to be the cheapest one in the store that day.

 

For veggies, I could buy frozen as long as it was the store brand. Bread was the worst. There were certain brands and types of breads I could buy and it was a whole page. I could get(I think) Orrowheat whole wheat hamburger buns, but not Orrowheat whole wheat bread. Certain juices had to be store brand while others had to be a different brand.

 

I tried to be super vigilant, because the cashiers were not so friendly if I grabbed the wrong product.

[Murphy101]

Yes. The store had a contract with the WIC office and a preapproved list of brands for each item that we all had to memorize. If a WIC customer needed an exception, the WIC office had to write it in on their form. We were not allowed to let them make substitutions unless it was on their form.

 

This was (is?) true here too. It's was a royal time consuming frustrating PITA. Which I guess is okay because you get what you pay for and it was "free". But it really was a dreaded weekly shaming chore to use our WIC checks when we had them. I refused to do it while my kids were with me because I didn't want them to experience that.

 

I find it rather strange that anyone would consider "splurging" with food stamps. I don't want to hear how the poor need junk to perk them up. Buy what you want with your own money. When using public funds, the most healthful food is all that should be allowed.

Things don't make people happy, and that includes junk food.

 

Parts. I'm not overly interested in reading about justifications for buying cake with public funds.

It has nothing to do with beating down the poor. It has everything to do with gratefullness.

 

Tho you come across very harsh and that undermined your point..

 

I could agree with this to some extent. What constitutes "healthy" is a lake sized wide questionable margin, there are some things I think we could agree are junk. I hope.

 

Cooking from scratch presumes skills and resources and time that many don't have. Keep in mind most on WIC or FS do have jobs and most are not married. I think hamburger helper is a ridiculous expensive thing to buy. Especially when I can toss some seasoning, ground beef, and pasta together on m own, buy it in bulk and make varied dishes instead of just one and so forth. But when I was 22, my dh was having health problems, got laid off of work while I was pregnant with our second and my mother can to live her last days of cancer with us - well call me stupid and lazy, but I just didn't have the energy or the time or the skills at that time to know that much less do it. And buying in bulk requires having the funds to buy more than a weeks worth of groceries, which we never had. I remember rationing milk and still running out and at midnight running up to the store to use get milk and eggs for breakfast because that was when I could use the next week's food check.

 

And I don't know if it was because my dh is type one or not, but we rarely bought complete junk. I had two babies to feed and I tried very hard to make our FS and WIC go as far as possible on healthier foods. No candy. No soda. In fact, diet Pepsi is probably the ONLY vice my dh has and he never used and he never would have used what we viewed as the kids food money for it. We bought all the meals with FS and WIC and if we had $5 for Pepsi, then he got it. (I'm sure someone will say he shouldn't have done even that. Whatever.)

 

I would be okay with FS not permitting any drinks other than water and milk bc I don't think any other drinks are at all necessary. Same goes for candy. BUT where does the line get drawn? Is candy not allowed, but buying sweeten condensed milk to make caramels is? What about powdered sugar and cream cheese to make frosting. Cake mix is bad, but really it's just flour, baking soda and such - should those not be allowed? What if they are mixing cake mix with canned pumpkins for muffins? Are poor people allowed to make quick and easy muffins? (bc really the only difference between a muffin and a cupcake is the time of day they eat it)

 

I don't think it is about gratitude.

I do see some valid concern of getting best use of their resources. But that's a tightrope walk that isn't as easy or simple as it looks from the spectator's point of view.

[Joanne]

This was (is?) true here too. It's was a royal time consuming frustrating PITA. Which I guess is okay because you get what you pay for and it was "free". But it really was a dreaded weekly shaming chore to use our WIC checks when we had them. I refused to do it while my kids were with me because I didn't want them to experience that.

 

 

 

Tho you come across very harsh and that undermined your point..

 

I could agree with this to some extent. What constitutes "healthy" is a lake sized wide questionable margin, there are some things I think we could agree are junk. I hope.

 

Cooking from scratch presumes skills and resources and time that many don't have. Keep in mind most on WIC or FS do have jobs and most are not married. I think hamburger helper is a ridiculous expensive thing to buy. Especially when I can toss some seasoning, ground beef, and pasta together on m own, buy it in bulk and make varied dishes instead of just one and so forth. But when I was 22, my dh was having health problems, got laid off of work while I was pregnant with our second and my mother can to live her last days of cancer with us - well call me stupid and lazy, but I just didn't have the energy or the time or the skills at that time to know that much less do it. And buying in bulk requires having the funds to buy more than a weeks worth of groceries, which we never had. I remember rationing milk and still running out and at midnight running up to the store to use get milk and eggs for breakfast because that was when I could use the next week's food check.

 

And I don't know if it was because my dh is type one or not, but we rarely bought complete junk. I had two babies to feed and I tried very hard to make our FS and WIC go as far as possible on healthier foods. No candy. No soda. In fact, diet Pepsi is probably the ONLY vice my dh has and he never used and he never would have used what we viewed as the kids food money for it. We bought all the meals with FS and WIC and if we had $5 for Pepsi, then he got it. (I'm sure someone will say he shouldn't have done even that. Whatever.)

 

I would be okay with FS not permitting any drinks other than water and milk bc I don't think any other drinks are at all necessary. Same goes for candy. BUT where does the line get drawn? Is candy not allowed, but buying sweeten condensed milk to make caramels is? What about powdered sugar and cream cheese to make frosting. Cake mix is bad, but really it's just flour, baking soda and such - should those not be allowed? What if they are mixing cake mix with canned pumpkins for muffins? Are poor people allowed to make quick and easy muffins? (bc really the only difference between a muffin and a cupcake is the time of day they eat it)

 

I don't think it is about gratitude.

I do see some valid concern of getting best use of their resources. But that's a tightrope walk that isn't as easy or simple as it looks from the spectator's point of view.

 

Good post, Martha. I'd add that the healthy, from scratch component and suggestion is very, very challenging when you work one (or more) jobs at low pay and are still trying to supervise homework, get your kids to the doctor and extracurriculars, tuck them in, and *breathe*.

 

Some investment in saving money comes with the luxury of having TIME, which most working at low pay moms do not have.

 

Yes, I know all about crock pots, making mixes, etc. But try living that life before you tell me how workable that is over putting a Stuffer's macaroni and cheese in the microwave after work while you do laundry, supervise homework and give hugs.

[Mrs Mungo]

The fact is, buying a bakery cake with food stamps is *allowed*. So, MYOB.

[Mergath]

I find it rather strange that anyone would consider "splurging" with food stamps. I don't want to hear how the poor need junk to perk them up. Buy what you want with your own money. When using public funds, the most healthful food is all that should be allowed.

 

Things don't make people happy, and that includes junk food.

 

Good grief. :rolleyes: That added exactly nothing to the conversation.

[Scarlett]

I find it rather strange that anyone would consider "splurging" with food stamps. I don't want to hear how the poor need junk to perk them up. Buy what you want with your own money. When using public funds, the most healthful food is all that should be allowed.

 

Things don't make people happy, and that includes junk food.

 

Buying a cake with FS is within guidelines and so it doesn't have to be justified. However if you had read this thread you may have learned a thing or two including a bit about compassion and what realties of poverty and or hard times entails.

[elegantlion]

I myself am quite grateful today...especially for the ignore feature. This allows me time to start researching for the next school year, where I have found a wonderful wealth of freebies about modern physics. MIT and Annenberg media just giving away their knowledge. Gosh, they could charge for this stuff, wait they do, in the university, sometimes funded by tax dollars. Wait they want people to be smart? What a wonderful thing the Internet has to offer people who don't qualify to admission or have the time/money to attend a university. But they're giving it away using MY tax dollars (read sarcasm). I think we'd all agree that we want a more educated populace, but would you think of micromanaging the online material I gather that is given away using MY tax dollars? - cause yeah I paid into the system for years and continue to do so via dh's check. Maybe you don't care because you don't sit in my house watching me learn. Well quit micromanaging my shopping cart or I'll go buy you a lemon, a gift, so you can go suck on it.

[justLisa]

E I just almost snorted some mocha through my nose. Bravo

[kalanamak]

You can buy urine on eBay, inject it into your bladder with a needle, and test clean.

 

 

I would guess this really isn't an epidemic. If you want to try to inject urine into an empty bladder (or else you'd have the owners urine still in there), imagine trying to inject pee into a collapsed space without getting the needled behind the bladder. MDs don't do this (if you have to needle someone because you can't get the urine out any other way, the bladder is plump, and even then you are feeling a bit safe because you are pulling out (can tell when you're in the right place) not pushing stuff in.

 

And I haven't heard about a crush of people going to the ER for a chemical (irritant) or infectious peritonitis because of this.

If ANY of this is going on, it is not a needle, but using a Foley catheter. And I suspect it is more likely to be found in athletes with medicos involved in their career. But I'm guessing. I know nothing about it, but am just applying the "reasonableness test" to your comment.

[kalanamak]

I find it rather strange that anyone would consider "splurging" with food stamps.

 

Then you must find much of human behavior strange.

[annandatje]

Perhaps we should just tie up food stamp recipients in chain gangs and slap their wrists each time they grocery shop. Some of you high and might people posting on a 3 year old thread really don't get it. There are people working full time jobs that still qualify for food aid because their salaries are so low. Perhaps one of the ministers at your church is getting paid so poorly they qualify for aid, perhaps that person who has had some bad turns in life needs some temporary aid so they can not worry about food on the table for their family. Unless you've been there you really don't get it. It's different than it was in your momma's day. There have been some hard time for a lot of hard working families. Not having to worry about what to feed your children for a temporary period of time is a blessing to many, so they can focus on finding a better job, or changing their circumstances. Kicking people while they are down or elevating yourself above them because you've never been there and judging because they might have a bag of chips in their cart is really petty. Go ahead, judge, karma/fate/God whatever you call has a way of humbling those who think they are superior.

 

I clicked on the smiley but the icons do not appear so picture an "I agree" placard held by a round yellow head.

 

Re food stamps. There is more than enough humiliation built into the acquisition process itself. If a person qualifies according to government standards and purchases only what is allowed, then they have followed the rules. I do not know for certain, but I am guessing that the food stamp may provide recipients with nutrition tips and cooking tips. However, many struggling families do not have the discretionary time, knowledge, facilities, or backup funds to purchase in bulk and cook from scratch to cut costs.

 

Whether they buy soda or cake just seems like too minor a thing to raise much concern.

 

Most people on food stamps do indeed work, often at two or more jobs just to make ends meet. Many of soldiers with families qualify for food stamps. Even if the recipients are not employed, in this harsh economy, the willingness to work hard does not always transpire into a job.

[Corraleno]

Then you must find much of human behavior strange.

What I find exceedingly strange is that anyone (let alone fellow moms) would begrudge a poor child a stinkin' WalMart birthday cake.

 

Will it really make your life better somehow if a little kid whose dad may be gone/dead/unemployed, whose mom may be working 2 or 3 jobs, who may not be getting a single present, goes without a cake, too? :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:

 

I can only hope that people who think that way are blessed this Christmas with a late-night visit from the Spirits of Christmas Past, Present, and Future, and end up handing out free turkeys instead of spitefully inspecting the shopping carts of poor people.

 

Jackie

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Even Marie Antoinette thought the poor should be able to eat cake.

[Corraleno]

Also, I can't help but notice the irony here:

 

Increased government regulation of homeschooling is an invasion of privacy and a violation of my constitutional rights; it's not fair to subject the vast majority of honest homeschoolers to increased regulation just to protect the small percentage of children whose parents are slackers.

 

BUT.... subjecting the vast majority of honest poor people on food stamps to the humiliation of micromanaging their food choices and subjecting them to drug testing is a perfectly reasonable way to catch the small percentage of people who abuse the system?

 

IOW, requiring me to abide by someone else's standards in terms of what & how I teach my children is a violation of my rights, but forcing other people to abide by my standards in terms of what they can feed their children is perfectly legit.

 

:001_rolleyes:

 

Jackie

[Corraleno]

Even Marie Antoinette thought the poor should be able to eat cake.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Jackie

[Slartibartfast]

 

 

All 50 states allow you to buy plants (including fruit trees) and seeds, the trick is finding stores that sell plants and take FS and low income people often don't have access to land to plant a garden. I know here our soil is terrible and a garden is $$$ from water costs to soil amendments:(

 

 

I would check the local Farmer's market for that. Where we used to live the Farmer's Market had a system set up for FS and many stalls there sold plants.

[Rivka]

Also, I can't help but notice the irony here:

 

Increased government regulation of homeschooling is an invasion of privacy and a violation of my constitutional rights; it's not fair to subject the vast majority of honest homeschoolers to increased regulation just to protect the small percentage of children whose parents are slackers.

 

BUT.... subjecting the vast majority of honest poor people on food stamps to the humiliation of micromanaging their food choices and subjecting them to drug testing is a perfectly reasonable way to catch the small percentage of people who abuse the system?

 

IOW, requiring me to abide by someone else's standards in terms of what & how I teach my children is a violation of my rights, but forcing other people to abide by my standards in terms of what they can feed their children is perfectly legit.

 

 

Well said, Jackie!

 

Anyone else do their grocery shopping this week and find themselves thinking about how their cart would stack up under inspection by the Food Stamp Police?

 

The vegans would be horrified by the meat. Unnecessary! My family could eat beans and tofu seven days a week and be perfectly healthy.

The paleo/primal people would be horrified by the English muffins, pasta, and cold cereal. What's the matter, haven't I read Wheat Belly?!

The low fat people would be distressed to see 18 eggs, two pounds of butter, and whole milk, especially because I didn't have my rail-thin kids with me.

The people who think food stamp recipients should never eat expensive foods would be angry that I bought organic fruit and fresh orange juice, plus steak and boneless chicken breasts instead of cheaper, fattier cuts of meat. Of course, if I had bought cheaper, fattier cuts of meat, that would have been more for the low-fat people to be upset about.

Everyone could have joined together to be outraged at my $3 half-gallon of ice cream.

[justamouse]

Good heavens.

 

If a person has to swallow an enormous amount of pride to even *request* assistance, can't we at the very least give them their dignity and let them chose the foods they want for their family, their traditions, and community (some heritages eat different foods, meaning)?

 

My dear friend had to be convinced to use food stamps, and you know what held her back? That they wanted her to use her Dd13's savings BEFORE she met the requirements. It is embarrassing as it is to have someone make you go through all of that just to be approved for assistance (and the food pantries have to do the same if they buy food from the state food banks--which many now must do because donations are *low*), let them eat the food they want.

 

Just because a person needs help doesn't automatically mean that we strip away their humanity and dignity.

 

Good lord, it's bad enough that everything for them is scrutinized.

 

When I worked in a residential disabilities hospital, I remember having to give an aide a *stern warning* after she yelled a patient's stats down the hall so her partner could mark the chart. You know, this many times the diaper was changed, how many BMs that day...how is this conversation any different?

[Lady Florida.]

Drug testing costs more money than it saves; poor economics. Not to mention the fact that those on food stamps are not automatically on probation or in the criminal justice system; they have no legal reason to account for their lifestyle. Being poor is not a crime.

 

:iagree: If we're going to talk about "My tax dollars", I resent my Florida tax dollars being used for political posturing. The program in Florida costs more money than it saves, yet it was touted as a way to save taxpayers from all those horrible poor people who must be on drugs otherwise they wouldn't be poor.

 

 

What I find exceedingly strange is that anyone (let alone fellow moms) would begrudge a poor child a stinkin' WalMart birthday cake. Will it really make your life better somehow if a little kid whose dad may be gone/dead/unemployed, whose mom may be working 2 or 3 jobs, who may not be getting a single present, goes without a cake, too? :confused1: :confused1: :confused1: I can only hope that people who think that way are blessed this Christmas with a late-night visit from the Spirits of Christmas Past, Present, and Future, and end up handing out free turkeys instead of spitefully inspecting the shopping carts of poor people. Jackie

 

Beautiful post.

[Audrey]

I myself am quite grateful today...especially for the ignore feature. This allows me time to start researching for the next school year, where I have found a wonderful wealth of freebies about modern physics. MIT and Annenberg media just giving away their knowledge. Gosh, they could charge for this stuff, wait they do, in the university, sometimes funded by tax dollars. Wait they want people to be smart? What a wonderful thing the Internet has to offer people who don't qualify to admission or have the time/money to attend a university. But they're giving it away using MY tax dollars (read sarcasm). I think we'd all agree that we want a more educated populace, but would you think of micromanaging the online material I gather that is given away using MY tax dollars? - cause yeah I paid into the system for years and continue to do so via dh's check. Maybe you don't care because you don't sit in my house watching me learn. Well quit micromanaging my shopping cart or I'll go buy you a lemon, a gift, so you can go suck on it.

 

 

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[Audrey]

Well said, Jackie!

 

Anyone else do their grocery shopping this week and find themselves thinking about how their cart would stack up under inspection by the Food Stamp Police?

 

The vegans would be horrified by the meat. Unnecessary! My family could eat beans and tofu seven days a week and be perfectly healthy.

The paleo/primal people would be horrified by the English muffins, pasta, and cold cereal. What's the matter, haven't I read Wheat Belly?!

The low fat people would be distressed to see 18 eggs, two pounds of butter, and whole milk, especially because I didn't have my rail-thin kids with me.

The people who think food stamp recipients should never eat expensive foods would be angry that I bought organic fruit and fresh orange juice, plus steak and boneless chicken breasts instead of cheaper, fattier cuts of meat. Of course, if I had bought cheaper, fattier cuts of meat, that would have been more for the low-fat people to be upset about.

Everyone could have joined together to be outraged at my $3 half-gallon of ice cream.

 

 

I just went grocery shopping yesterday and dh and I had a similar conversation in the produce section. We were discussing whether or not "our food stamp money" would cover this or that thing in our carts. We were joking, of course, because there is no such thing as food stamps here. Here, if you are on assistance, you simply get the money you qualify for, and are let to spend it on what you feel you need. No one micromanages your grocery cart. One lady did have to stop and let us know that we could buy whatever we needed with our money. She told us she works for that town's food bank if we needed more. We kind of felt bad. I had to tell her we were just pondering out loud and that we were okay. She was so sweet though. I'm glad there are lots of people like her out there who don't think people shouldn't be able to eat nice food just because they're poor.

[BlueTaelon]

 

I would check the local Farmer's market for that. Where we used to live the Farmer's Market had a system set up for FS and many stalls there sold plants.

 

 

I wish we had that here, we have a tiny one and they sell no plants nor do they take FS. The produce is way over priced there too:( They wanted like $4lb for peaches! Summer before last I went to walmart 40 miles away (nearest store that sold plants and took FS) just so I could use my FS to buy plants for the garden:)

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, if the cashier is having to memorize lists and scrutinize to see if a given item qualifies, and is embarrassing the customer and causing delays, the store hasn't done their job up front. When you add new items to a POS system, there's a checkbox for "WIC eligible" and for quite a few other things. The look up has to be done exactly once, when the item is put in, and never again, and since the items HAVE to put put in by someone, it makes no sense to not do so automatically. And, if they're going with a standard software package with customizations for their specific needs, most of the WIC eligible items will already be coded into the software, and updated when the company gets their newest version as part of their contract-because there will be someone, back at the company that made the software, who is programming in those codes, so it's not even up to the local store in most cases. The only thing that requires an extra step is something like loose produce or deli cheese, where the amount is variable, and that can be automated using a local kiosk/printer if a store desires.

 

 

It would also be a simple matter, in stores that already have bar code scanners available to do price checks for customers, to have those scanners label items as "WIC eligible" so that the customer can check, right then, if that particular jar of Peanut butter is going to come out as eligible at the cash register. Not all stores have these, but many of the larger chains do, because it's simply not time-efficient to be doing price checks at the register or to have customers realize, at the register, that they can't pay for what they've picked up-particularly not when you're talking perishable items.

 

If the system is automated to the extent that most are, there's NO excuse for a customer being embarrassed by using Food Stamps or a WIC check-they should be able to run their groceries through just as if they were paying with a credit card, scan their benefits card, and have it pay what is eligible, just as if they were using pre-loaded coupons on a store discount card, and then give them a bottom line that needs to be paid with another form of payment-because, ultimately, that's all WIC or food stamps are for the store-another form of payment.

[BlueTaelon]

Interesting, In addition to seeds and plants, which are allowable items in all States, Alaska has special rules that allow for higher Food Stamp benefits in rural areas, and the use of benefits to purchase certain hunting and fishing subsistence supplies. http://www.deltadiscovery.com/story/2012/06/20/outdoors/food-stamps-can-purchase-seeds-local-produce-and-subsistence-gear/269.html

 

Lots of cool info on using FS to garden https://www.facebook.com/SNAPgardens

[cdrumm4448]

Good grief. :rolleyes: That added exactly nothing to the conversation.

 

You feel that way because we disagree.

 

Some don't like the conservative view (not speaking of the political conservative here, but rather the lifestyle) so I don't expect you to agree with me. I do know that if we are ever on FSs, I would be happy to have them (although I would utilize churches first and the government last) and I would jump through whatever hoops I had to to feed my kids with money other people worked for. Your offense doesn't change the fact that anything "given" by the government was taken from someone else. Most people have no problem helping others, or giving a hand up. It's the continual handout that has become a problem, and the fact that many people are comfortable continuing to take from others forever.

[cdrumm4448]

Buying a cake with FS is within guidelines and so it doesn't have to be justified. However if you had read this thread you may have learned a thing or two including a bit about compassion and what realties of poverty and or hard times entails.

 

Well, Scarlett, you don't know me or exactly which realities of poverty I'm familiar with.

[cdrumm4448]

Then you must find much of human behavior strange.

 

I absolutely do.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

 

You feel that way because we disagree.

 

Some don't like the conservative view (not speaking of the political conservative here, but rather the lifestyle) so I don't expect you to agree with me. I do know that if we are ever on FSs, I would be happy to have them (although I would utilize churches first and the government last) and I would jump through whatever hoops I had to to feed my kids with money other people worked for. Your offense doesn't change the fact that anything "given" by the government was taken from someone else. Most people have no problem helping others, or giving a hand up. It's the continual handout that has become a problem, and the fact that many people are comfortable continuing to take from others forever.

 

 

You must have missed some parts of this thread. I get MORE dirty looks when i only buy healthy foods, than when i buy a rare "treat" in the junk food sense. My dd's favorite treat in the world is a package of seaweed crisps for $1.17. She's getting 4 of them for her stocking, and I'm paying for it with food stamps.