Why aren't food stamps regulated like WIC?

[Amy in NH]

Could someone explain to me how threads like this get resurrected? "Food stamps" seems like such an odd search term for a newbie on a homeschooling forum. Is GMGUY an old poster now registered under a new name?

 

Sometimes I see these resurrected contentious threads and wonder if somehow it's an orchestrated effort to drive traffic, but that's pretty cynical even for me. Does anyone have a better theory?

 

 

Troll.

[Hunter]

Regulating usually costs more money than it saves.

 

And declaring that only certain stores can be used. What about disabled people, without cars, living in areas with no decent shops? Have you ever lived in a slum without a car? I have. Grocery shopping is tough. REALLY tough. A few years ago, I had to pick through unrefrigerated produce covered in flies, and had to give up and grab "junk" because that is all they had for miles and miles, and I was seizing so hard that day I couldn't walk far or ride a bus out of the slum.

 

And the right to Food Stamps is based on the Declaration of Human Rights, which we here in America no longer talk about, despite Eleanor Roosevelt's involvement. Humans are supposed to be treated equally, and that includes being able to engage in the cultural life of the community.

 

 

Article 27.

• (1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
  

 

Saving up food stamps for months and months, to be able to save for a small cake, is being able to participate. That's a human right for someone that was declared unable to do that for themselves, usually by a degrading and lengthy intake process that requires constant reapplication.

[laundrycrisis]

I'm curious, as well.

Who knows what they buy every other week of the year. Because someone receives assistance they shouldn't drink a bit of soda, buy snack food now and then or a once-in-a-lifetime wedding cake?

I'm suspicious of the 'carts full of only junk food and soda' stories, though. My sister tells those sorts of tales, but is usually found to be greatly exaggerating.

 

 

 

I worked as a cashier and saw it with my own eyes, many many times...food stamps were very often used to pay for items like kool-aid, sweet junky cereal, potato chips, etc with not much nutrition in the entire cart. As long as it was a "grocery" item and not a non-food item, it was allowed. I will also risk tomatoes being thrown and say that I personally observed that the people using the food stamps in the stores I worked in were usually buying the junkiest food someone could fill a cart with. I remember being surprised when someone came through with fresh produce and fresh chicken and she paid for it with food stamps, because it was so unusual to see real food come through on a stamp purchase. We also sold tobacco products, and it was very typical for the junky food stamp purchase to be followed by a cash purchase of a carton or two of cigarettes.

 

This was a small town and I worked a lot of hours and the customers were pretty much all known to us - they were not unfamiliar people. Their patterns were pretty set. The WIC vouchers pretty much forced some of these people to buy nutritious food, and they were mad about it - many of them tried to switch to sweet cereal and orange flavored drinks, for example. With WIC, we had to enforce the rules of what they were allowed to buy. I have always wished that food stamps came with the same restrictions as WIC.

 

What I concluded from those years of life experience is that many people who are caught in the poverty cycle, who grow up in it and stay in it as adults, have not learned healthy habits. They may have been covered in school, but you learn what you live with. So the kids who grow up on kool-aid and chips will likely not see a problem feeding those to their own kids when they grow up. :( I don't know how to reach these people, but I think it would be a grand idea to stop financing junk food purchases with tax money. I am not opposed to food welfare, but it should be restricted to nutritious food. Because I don't think it helps anyone to be enabled by food stamps to go to the store and spend your only money for food on junk. I have seen it. I have seen the people who when they realized they didn't have enough for everything in their cart choose have the milk taken off the order and keep the garbage foods. It's really sad. It would help them more, and it would help their children more, to restrict food stamp purchases to nutritious foods.

[LucyStoner]

Ack, the Loch Ness zombie thread got my toe and nearly pulled me under!!!!!

 

Fancy being angry enough to search a forum for "food stamp" and then add an incendiary generalized post to the tail end of it. Or just bored enough to do so.

[thebacabunch]

Okay -- I admit it. I am being a jerk with a knee-jerk reaction.

 

I am honestly not upset with anyone on this board. We have issues in real life that are going on regarding these conversations which we have been having on the board which are bleeding over onto this board.

 

We are seeing much abuse, and because of that, I am hypersensitive and spewing.

 

I honestly don't want anyone on this board to be in financial ruin, to go hungry, etc. I really don't.

 

Will you please accept my apologies?

 

I wish you wouldn't apologize. I found your posts to be thoughtful and sensible. I have seen families with big beautiful houses and sportscars getting free healthcare. I have friends who hardly work but need another freezer because all of their meat is falling out of the other 2 full freezers they have. They get a lot of foodstamp money. They use the large cans of food as chairs. I am not kidding. They all buy organic. Why not? They aren't paying for it. They do not spend a dime in taxes. In fact, they get a childcare credit for each of their 6 kids so they get 2000.00 more from their returns than they paid.

 

I believe in governent assistance. I believe in giving a hand to those in need. Heaven knows there are so many who need right now in our wretched economy. I do not, however, enjoy the blatant abuses I see everywhere. I don't have a problem with a box of twinkies here and there. I have a problem when those who are able bodied and CAN provide for themselves and don't who can eat better than my family, go to the doctor more, and live in nicer homes because they can qualify for government assistance. We work damned hard for what we have and we pay A LOT of taxes. I don't think it is wrong for taxpayers to want accountability for where thier money is going. It's like we are in a world turned

upside down when taxpayers are asked to apologetically hand over their money and like it or are found wanting in the areas of compassion and charity. Not so. Absolutely not so.

 

When I was little we were on foodstamps. My mom worked her butt off and went to school to claw her way out of poverty. No one in our country should go hungry. Thank heaven above we had that help. I don't remember much junk food. My mom cooked from scratch.

 

You will see my WRATH, that's right I said the word WRATH if I see somebody purchase a weddng cake with food stamps. Otherwise, I don't make faces at people. I don't make rude comments.

[Michelle My Bell]

Perhaps we should just tie up food stamp recipients in chain gangs and slap their wrists each time they grocery shop. Some of you high and might people posting on a 3 year old thread really don't get it. There are people working full time jobs that still qualify for food aid because their salaries are so low. Perhaps one of the ministers at your church is getting paid so poorly they qualify for aid, perhaps that person who has had some bad turns in life needs some temporary aid so they can not worry about food on the table for their family. Unless you've been there you really don't get it. It's different than it was in your momma's day. There have been some hard time for a lot of hard working families. Not having to worry about what to feed your children for a temporary period of time is a blessing to many, so they can focus on finding a better job, or changing their circumstances. Kicking people while they are down or elevating yourself above them because you've never been there and judging because they might have a bag of chips in their cart is really petty. Go ahead, judge, karma/fate/God whatever you call has a way of humbling those who think they are superior.

 

I was actually just going to say that there are probably a lot of people who come to WTM boards that are on food stamps. I get so sick of people judging and making comments about this sort of thing. Thank goodness you get it and you said it. Everyone should read this post a few times.

[Mrs Mungo]

You will see my WRATH, that's right I said the word WRATH if I see somebody purchase a weddng cake with food stamps. Otherwise, I don't make faces at people. I don't make rude comments.

 

 

Really? You would waste that much time and energy on someone else's choices? I just don't get it.

 

From the SNAP website:

Since the current definition of food is a specific part of the Act, any change to this definition would require action by a member of Congress. Several times in the history of SNAP, Congress had considered placing limits on the types of food that could be purchased with program benefits. However, they concluded that designating foods as luxury or non-nutritious would be administratively costly and burdensome. Further detailed information about the challenges of restricting the use of SNAP benefits can be found here:

 

It is like Florida's new drug testing law. How many positives? Zero. It is simply costing the people of Florida to test people, and it isn't reducing benefits at all because the idea that most welfare recipients are on drugs is a misconception. It costs more to add regulations like this than the taxpayers would save. Better, IMO, for that money to go to someone who needs it. Will there pretty much always be people who work the system? Yes, but they aren't the majority.

 

I simply cannot begrudge someone a cake from Wal-Mart, even if it is purchased with food stamps. They cannot purchase an expensive cake because of this rule:

Items such as birthday and other special occasion cakes are eligible for purchase with SNAP benefits as long as the value of non-edible decorations does not exceed 50 percent of the purchase price of the cake.

 

Do some people across the board make poor choices? Absolutely? Do *most* of us have at least some treats, vices or poor choices? Most likely.

 

I just don't get the idea that you would unleash WRATH on someone buying a cake. Really? Because that is the worst thing that happens in our society? It blows my mind, honestly.

[MiniBlondes]

Could someone explain to me how threads like this get resurrected? "Food stamps" seems like such an odd search term for a newbie on a homeschooling forum. Is GMGUY an old poster now registered under a new name?

 

Sometimes I see these resurrected contentious threads and wonder if somehow it's an orchestrated effort to drive traffic, but that's pretty cynical even for me. Does anyone have a better theory?

 

 

 

I have always thought that it was because someone did a google search and a WTM thread pops into search. That is, after all, how I found this forum. Although I was searching for something homeschool related and a WTM thread popped into the results.

 

Anyway, I think they see the forum thread and register in order to put their comments in. They may or may not even pay attention to the purpose behind this forum.

[Scarlett]

Well that is 30 minutes of my life I can't get back! Reading a thread from 2 years back! I got mad all over again! Lol

 

Seems to me there are two issues here. 1) people who are on fs by committing fraud 2) people who are legally on FS and being judged for that either by other material goods they have or by the food choices they make.

 

To number one I say there are all kinds of laws being broken all the time. If you think it is that bad report it.

 

To number two I say how petty to judge a family who qualifies for FS if they dare to have a treat. Only nutritious food huh? So you are ok with organic even though YOU who WORKS for your living can't afford organic? Yeah that kind of judging could go round and round. My good friend who was forced into divorce with 3 small children was getting $600 a month in FS. Way more than she to spend when she was married even though her husband made $70k a year. What should she have done? Not take it?

 

I think some of you people are seriously sheltered or maybe just mean spirited.

[lovinmomma]

 

Yes, but 20 cake mixes are cheaper than a wedding cake. We were also broke when we got married and only invited 50 people, had 30 show up and fed them from one sheet cake.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting that. But if you don't have the money then you need to make it with less. As a country we feel entitled to big weddings and expensive cakes.

 

I find it sad when I hear people call into Dave Ramsey or Dr. Laura and say they are living together because they can't afford to have a wedding. Go to the justice of the peace!

 

On that part...do you realize that JOP isn't free? Here is costs $100 for the marriage license and $200 for the JOP.

[lovinmomma]

 

Gosh, all the folks who'll have "likes" now on their posts from 4 years ago... I really need to start looking at the dates on these threads. :leaving:

 

Gah! Me, too!

[Elizabeth in MN]

When we make a drinking game for the boards we really need to have a spot for this thread. Maybe it'll be a double shot spot?

[Luanne]

Nope, not with taxpayer money, they shouldn't. It should be for nutritious foods only. Otherwise, why not be allowed to buy a pack of cigarettes? Or a bottle of wine?

 

Have you seen the prices of nutritious food lately? If we only bought fresh fruits, vegetables, and meat, we would go hungry for half of the month. We don't just buy junk food, but sometimes we need filler foods because the nutritious stuff is SO expensive.

 

If they are going to do this, they need to increase the amount they give people. I only get $200 a month to feed myself.

[Scook86]

My honest opinion is that if you have to rely on other people's tax dollars, then what you buy with them should be regulated. There is a lot of entitlement mentality in this country. Junk food is not a necessity. It's a luxury. And other people's tax dollars don't need to pay for luxuries. A wedding cake especially.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I know this thread is old, but this is referring to the more recent posts.

 

If people have such a problem with junk and food stamps, why is that that i get dirty looks for buying good foods?!

 

My food stamps just went down $54. It decreased because my son's disability had a cost of living increase. His increase was $7, and we lose $54 in food. His disability went from $112 to $119. That $7 increase somehow makes up for the $54 decrease.

 

Now with the food decrease, i will have to get some crappier foods. I will not be able to get bread at all because i have to get it at the health food store, which i can no longer afford, but I'm going to have to fill that gap for my son.

 

Everything is going up. Gas is insane, food costs are rising, cost of living increased, disability increased. But food? Nope. That decreases.

 

Living off the system is just so wonderful.

 

I have no idea how I'm supposed to budget this. And i do not have cash to help with food. Well, i guess i can put that $7 towards our budget.

 

 

 

 

[Wendi]

It is nice that some people get to enjoy being on foodstamps. Where else would the money go? Government waste, or some crooked politicians pocket.

 

 

Or maybe the people that earned the money could have kept it to spend or invest as they saw fit.

[Scarlett]

Or maybe the people that earned the money could have kept it to spend or invest as they saw fit.

 

But this is far beyond the scope of FS fraud, abuse or improper use. This is a poltical statement and I suspect the real reason so many people get so bent out of shape about FS use.

[Scarlett]

My honest opinion is that if you have to rely on other people's tax dollars, then what you buy with them should be regulated. There is a lot of entitlement mentality in this country. Junk food is not a necessity. It's a luxury. And other people's tax dollars don't need to pay for luxuries. A wedding cake especially.

 

 

But it already IS regulated.Just not to the extent some people seem to want it.

[Audrey]

Have we not had this exact same discussion multiple times? Even right down to the dastardly decorated bakery cake and infernal soda pop?

 

If you want to get a rage-on over food stamps, just do a board search and hit "like this" on every post that agrees with you.

 

That's just one more nice new feature of the board. Don't you just love shiny new tech?

 

 

ETA: Oh! I see that this IS the exact same discussion. In that case... let it die already.

[Wendi]

But this is far beyond the scope of FS fraud, abuse or improper use. This is a poltical statement and I suspect the real reason so many people get so bent out of shape about FS use.

 

I know. I was just responding to the other poster about where the money might be going if it didn't go to food stamps.

[happypamama]

I just can't get too upset about how people use their food stamp money. Yeah, you probably shouldn't buy soda or chips on food stamps (or with cash), but really? It's not the end of the world. (I do think using food stamps for food and then buying cigarettes is pretty lousy, though.) It really seems to be that people on assistance are darned either way. If they buy junk food because it's the best way to stretch their food money (because filling tummies is the most important thing, quality of that filling ranks after that), then people wonder why they're not buying better food. If they buy higher-quality food, people complain that they're eating better than the taxpayers and that they're not stretching their budgets enough. So what are the people who need help supposed to buy?

 

Please remember, everyone, that you don't know the situation of the person using food stamps. They might have bought expensive item X at the thrift store. Or maybe they had a great job and gave lots to charity and everything -- and the economic crash left them unemployed for four years, during which they exhausted their savings. Or maybe they had savings but work for a small business that doesn't offer health insurance, and they used up their savings to pay for necessary surgery. Or any one of a number of things. Just be gentle to each other.

[Joanne]

I wish you wouldn't apologize. I found your posts to be thoughtful and sensible. I have seen families with big beautiful houses and sportscars getting free healthcare. I have friends who hardly work but need another freezer because all of their meat is falling out of the other 2 full freezers they have. They get a lot of foodstamp money. They use the large cans of food as chairs. I am not kidding. They all buy organic. Why not? They aren't paying for it. They do not spend a dime in taxes. In fact, they get a childcare credit for each of their 6 kids so they get 2000.00 more from their returns than they paid.

 

I believe in governent assistance. I believe in giving a hand to those in need. Heaven knows there are so many who need right now in our wretched economy. I do not, however, enjoy the blatant abuses I see everywhere. I don't have a problem with a box of twinkies here and there. I have a problem when those who are able bodied and CAN provide for themselves and don't who can eat better than my family, go to the doctor more, and live in nicer homes because they can qualify for government assistance. We work damned hard for what we have and we pay A LOT of taxes. I don't think it is wrong for taxpayers to want accountability for where thier money is going. It's like we are in a world turned

upside down when taxpayers are asked to apologetically hand over their money and like it or are found wanting in the areas of compassion and charity. Not so. Absolutely not so.

 

When I was little we were on foodstamps. My mom worked her butt off and went to school to claw her way out of poverty. No one in our country should go hungry. Thank heaven above we had that help. I don't remember much junk food. My mom cooked from scratch.

 

You will see my WRATH, that's right I said the word WRATH if I see somebody purchase a weddng cake with food stamps. Otherwise, I don't make faces at people. I don't make rude comments.

 

There is much, much that is unlikely and incongruent in the content of this post.

 

Some of the content offered would automatically disqualify a person from qualifying. Other content suggests that the family either had means, and lost is, or their income is under the table in some fashion.

 

There is also some stereotypes and assumptions that are likely erroneous. For example, the "we work damned hard for our money......." Um, so do many millions who qualify for assistance.

 

Wrath over wedding cake? Really? First, the percentage of time a wedding cake is an issue for food stamps is likely to be *tiny.* Second, it seems to me that supporting contract/covenent in terms of adult relationships benefits everyone - or at least elevates the chances of benefit.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Wrath over wedding cake. Really? So poor people shouldn't have babies and shouldn't get married. We're having a lovely Hate the Poor Day on the forums!

[Scarlett]

I have lived in small towns in the south all my life and never really witnessed the glut of 'welfare abusers' that I sometimes read about. However, the other day I saw something that was so 'off' to me that I thought of this board and this thread in fact....

 

A woman.....with just a few teeth in her head....was pushing a cart FULL of convenience frozen food dinners. I mean like 20 of them. Every item she had times about 20. Following along behind her was a man...looked to be younger but not young enough to be her son....and he was doing everything she said. They got to the front of the store and she pointed to those coffee drinks...you know that come in 4 packs and cost about $6 I think. She said oh, get '5 of those, so and so has to have his coffee drink.'

 

I was so amazed that someone's cart could be filled with what hers was filled with. I soooooo wanted to get behind her and see if she used a FS card....well, not because it is any of my business but because I"m nosey like that. :tongue_smilie:

 

Bottom line though, regardless of HOW she was paying for it, *I* thought it was ridiculous! So there. Just wanted to let you all know I judged her. I feel better now. :)

[Joanne]

I worked as a cashier and saw it with my own eyes, many many times...food stamps were very often used to pay for items like kool-aid, sweet junky cereal, potato chips, etc with not much nutrition in the entire cart. As long as it was a "grocery" item and not a non-food item, it was allowed. I will also risk tomatoes being thrown and say that I personally observed that the people using the food stamps in the stores I worked in were usually buying the junkiest food someone could fill a cart with. I remember being surprised when someone came through with fresh produce and fresh chicken and she paid for it with food stamps, because it was so unusual to see real food come through on a stamp purchase. We also sold tobacco products, and it was very typical for the junky food stamp purchase to be followed by a cash purchase of a carton or two of cigarettes.

 

This was a small town and I worked a lot of hours and the customers were pretty much all known to us - they were not unfamiliar people. Their patterns were pretty set. The WIC vouchers pretty much forced some of these people to buy nutritious food, and they were mad about it - many of them tried to switch to sweet cereal and orange flavored drinks, for example. With WIC, we had to enforce the rules of what they were allowed to buy. I have always wished that food stamps came with the same restrictions as WIC.

 

What I concluded from those years of life experience is that many people who are caught in the poverty cycle, who grow up in it and stay in it as adults, have not learned healthy habits. They may have been covered in school, but you learn what you live with. So the kids who grow up on kool-aid and chips will likely not see a problem feeding those to their own kids when they grow up. :( I don't know how to reach these people, but I think it would be a grand idea to stop financing junk food purchases with tax money. I am not opposed to food welfare, but it should be restricted to nutritious food. Because I don't think it helps anyone to be enabled by food stamps to go to the store and spend your only money for food on junk. I have seen it. I have seen the people who when they realized they didn't have enough for everything in their cart choose have the milk taken off the order and keep the garbage foods. It's really sad. It would help them more, and it would help their children more, to restrict food stamp purchases to nutritious foods.

 

There is a dynamic,and cycle, involved in low income living. One that is self-perpetuating and difficult to transcend. It would help to udnerstand that reality before making judgments about your observations regarding quality of food choice.

 

See the post below; it speaks to one of the challenges inherent in the low income burden.

 

I know this thread is old, but this is referring to the more recent posts.

 

If people have such a problem with junk and food stamps, why is that that i get dirty looks for buying good foods?!

 

My food stamps just went down $54. It decreased because my son's disability had a cost of living increase. His increase was $7, and we lose $54 in food. His disability went from $112 to $119. That $7 increase somehow makes up for the $54 decrease.

 

Now with the food decrease, i will have to get some crappier foods. I will not be able to get bread at all because i have to get it at the health food store, which i can no longer afford, but I'm going to have to fill that gap for my son.

 

Everything is going up. Gas is insane, food costs are rising, cost of living increased, disability increased. But food? Nope. That decreases.

 

Living off the system is just so wonderful.

 

I have no idea how I'm supposed to budget this. And i do not have cash to help with food. Well, i guess i can put that $7 towards our budget.

[Scarlett]

I have lived in small towns in the south all my life and never really witnessed the glut of 'welfare abusers' that I sometimes read about. However, the other day I saw something that was so 'off' to me that I thought of this board and this thread in fact....

 

A woman.....with just a few teeth in her head....was pushing a cart FULL of convenience frozen food dinners. I mean like 20 of them. Every item she had times about 20. Following along behind her was a man...looked to be younger but not young enough to be her son....and he was doing everything she said. They got to the front of the store and she pointed to those coffee drinks...you know that come in 4 packs and cost about $6 I think. She said oh, get '5 of those, so and so has to have his coffee drink.'

 

I was so amazed that someone's cart could be filled with what hers was filled with. I soooooo wanted to get behind her and see if she used a FS card....well, not because it is any of my business but because I"m nosey like that. :tongue_smilie:

 

Bottom line though, regardless of HOW she was paying for it, *I* thought it was ridiculous! So there. Just wanted to let you all know I judged her. I feel better now. :)

 

And as I typed that I just realized she might have been doing the shopping for her elderly father or grandfather! I mean I still think it was a ridiculous bunch of stuff, but makes more sense if she was buying for a shut in who lives alone and doesn't cook.

[Elizabeth in MN]

And as I typed that I just realized she might have been doing the shopping for her elderly father or grandfather! I mean I still think it was a ridiculous bunch of stuff, but makes more sense if she was buying for a shut in who lives alone and doesn't cook.

 

Or doesn't own a working stove. I lived for about two years with my dd with only a hot plate, a microwave, and a toaster oven.

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

Or doesn't own a working stove. I lived for about two years with my dd with only a hot plate, a microwave, and a toaster oven.

 

When I have helped with food banks, this is one of the biggest issues. Many of the *WORKING poor* live in hotel rooms or other places without stoves or ovens.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

When I have helped with food banks, this is one of the biggest issues. Many of the *WORKING poor* live in hotel rooms or other places without stoves or ovens.

 

 

Here, as well. Our church operates a huge food pantry. The types of food needed have changed, as the people have lost their low-income apartments, where they did have stoves and refrigerators, and moved to cheap hotels or the streets, where they don't.

[carriede]

This thread is older than my son. :/

[Aelwydd]

 

 

lgm,

 

You have to just accept that people who receive assistance do not want to see accountability, regulation, etc. regarding it. I am certain that no one on the board who has or has had assistance is in favor of regulation of it, nor do the abuses really bother them.

 

Moreover, most people are of the mindset that if they qualify for some sort of aid, they should take it, even if they COULD live without it. College educational aid is one example. A relative gave our son a website the other day to go to in order to sign up for college aid. When he discovered it was federal and not private aid, he did not bother going to the website.

 

 

nm.

[Aelwydd]

*sigh*

 

many others have noted already the many presumptions and assumptions and various errors that led many to look down upon such as those on assistance.

 

what is the point of this? does it make anyone eat better or have more gainful employment?

 

no.

 

yet offense by the exisitance of no and low-income people continues, oddly enough this is especially true if they have children.

 

ETA: abuse exist in any area of life. the abuse ofit is not a reason to presume less than charitibly of our neighbors

 

maybe people are these days would be more open to Swift's Modest Proposal than folks of his day were?

 

 

Ok, I was wondering if I was the only one who was smelling the cognitive dissonance. On the other thread, most people uphold the right of poor people to have as many children as they want, for weal or for woe.

 

On this thread, just as many despise the same people for daring to dip their hand into the public coffers to feed their families.

 

So, the moral of the story is...have as many kids as you like, but just don't come running to us when they are hungry?

 

Oh, and don't you dare give them that birthday cake on my tax dollar! (I could have spent that dollar on a new iPhone!)

 

 

P.S., I agree whole heartedly that we should not withhold charity towards the poor because some abuse it.

 

And to those Christians who think we should--shame on you! What if Jesus decided to withhold His sacrifice for some because of the 100 bajillion hypocrites out there who abuse the faith for their own benefit? I would dare say there are at least as many abusers as there are genuine Christians.

 

No wonder there's a burgeoning cottage industry among certain denominations who seemingly enjoy regulating how much grace we all get and when it's a legitimate cause.

 

Jesus said BLESSED ARE THE POOR, and He never went around shaming them, trying to force them to increase their income.

[Carrie12345]

Yowza! I thought maybe this thread was resurrected due to the Newark mayor taking on his food stamp challenge. That would have been more interesting than a troll.

[The Girls' Mom]

Yes, it should be more regulated. I have relatives that are abusing the system. They refuse to eat the beans and rice they pick up from the food pantry, and instead live off of chicken nuggets and club crackers. Yes, they have time to cook, and the ability. Instead they buy highly processed junk with their food stamps. They throw out their pantry food, buy cigarettes, sodas and hotel rooms (just to get away...they have a home, rent free btw) with the little cash they have. Then run out of money to pay the light bill. All the adults (3 of them) suffer from severe health problems directly related to obesity and poor diet. (lets not go into the health care costs there). The kids are going up the same river. These are not stupid, uneducated people. They just choose to live like they are. They have had several opportunities to get out of the situation and have thrown them away.

[The Girls' Mom]

 

Oh, and don't you dare give them that birthday cake on my tax dollar! (I could have spent that dollar on a new iPhone!)

 

 

P.S., I agree whole heartedly that we should not withhold charity towards the poor because some abuse it.

 

And to those Christians who think we should--shame on you! What if Jesus decided to withhold His sacrifice for some because of the 100 bajillion hypocrites out there who abuse the faith for their own benefit? I would dare say there are at least as many abusers as there are genuine Christians.

 

No wonder there's a burgeoning cottage industry among certain denominations who seemingly enjoy regulating how much grace we all get and when it's a legitimate cause.

 

Jesus said BLESSED ARE THE POOR, and He never went around shaming them, trying to force them to increase their income.

 

 

Well, I am a Christian. I DO think it should be regulated. I don't mind one bit helping the poor. I do hate enabling people to be liars and cheats. Make it so you can purchase only healthy food with food stamps. They are FOOD stamps. Not party stamps. Not fun stamps. I also don't think there is anything un-Christian to think that people who CAN better their circumstances should. If you are able to work, and can find a job..then do it. If you cannot, for reasons out of your control...then yes, I am happy to help.

[Joanne]

 

Well, I am a Christian. I DO think it should be regulated. I don't mind one bit helping the poor. I do hate enabling people to be liars and cheats. Make it so you can purchase only healthy food with food stamps. They are FOOD stamps. Not party stamps. Not fun stamps. I also don't think there is anything un-Christian to think that people who CAN better their circumstances should. If you are able to work, and can find a job..then do it. If you cannot, for reasons out of your control...then yes, I am happy to help.

 

 

 

Millions of people ON food stamps have jobs. Many of more than one.

[The Girls' Mom]

 

 

Millions of people ON food stamps have jobs. Many of more than one.

 

 

I'm aware of that. I'm saying...if you have the ABILITY to improve your situation, then do so. I am not saying that I have a problem helping the working poor. In fact, I am very happy to help those that are TRYING. It is the ones that do not TRY that I have a beef with. The ones that are working the system.

 

I have been on WIC. It was needed and appreciated. I have family that only eat because of assistance. I have no problem with that...when they aren't abusing it.

[The Girls' Mom]

I realize that we cannot be the morality police. Nor do I think we should. But there are steps that could be taken to reduce the blatant abuse of a system that was only meant to be a temporary help to those that are truly in need. If they made food stamps for things like meat, veggies, bread and milk it would still accomplish what it set out to do: feed people. Cut out all the junk you can buy. Make it extremely hard to sell them. Drug test (yeah, I know that is controversial...but if I have to go through drug testing to work, then I have no problem with drug testing for assistance)

[Joker]

I realize that we cannot be the morality police. Nor do I think we should. But there are steps that could be taken to reduce the blatant abuse of a system that was only meant to be a temporary help to those that are truly in need. If they made food stamps for things like meat, veggies, bread and milk it would still accomplish what it set out to do: feed people. Cut out all the junk you can buy. Make it extremely hard to sell them. Drug test (yeah, I know that is controversial...but if I have to go through drug testing to work, then I have no problem with drug testing for assistance)

 

Have you followed how that's worked out in Florida? All it's doing is costing our state lots of money becasue *gasp* they're all passing the drug test! Contrary to popular belief, the majority of those on assisstance aren't drug abusers. They're just people needing help.

[Mergath]

To number two I say how petty to judge a family who qualifies for FS if they dare to have a treat. Only nutritious food huh? So you are ok with organic even though YOU who WORKS for your living can't afford organic? Yeah that kind of judging could go round and round. My good friend who was forced into divorce with 3 small children was getting $600 a month in FS. Way more than she to spend when she was married even though her husband made $70k a year. What should she have done? Not take it?

 

I think some of you people are seriously sheltered or maybe just mean spirited.

 

I get sucked into these contentious zombie threads every time... *sigh*

 

Back when my dh was unemployed, we had to deal with this. You get dirty looks if you buy anything processed. You get dirty looks if you buy anything organic. You get dirty looks if you buy any kind of beef that hasn't been ground. You can't win. There are too many people in this country who get off on making themselves feel superior by kicking the people who are "beneath" them. I see it on this board all the time. It's pathetic, and often followed by a few rounds of verbal gymnastics to rationalize how it isn't REALLY judging, Jesus actually hates entitlements, blah blah blah...

[Mergath]

Go to any Walmart in Central Florida and you will find them full of migrant workers with carts full of crap. (Not saying it to be racist....its just the dynamic in our area.) Every single trip I make there, I see a handful of people spending 3-400 in fs on lots of junk. Things such as frozen burritos, chips, cases of soda, cookies, etc. Looking at their kids, it is apparent that it is a way of life for them. Lots and lots of 5-6 year olds that outweigh my 10 year old, walking around with Hot Cheetos and sodas before they even get to the register.

 

Or it could be that they don't have time to cook healthy foods from scratch because every single one of them works sixteen plus hours a day for far below minimum wage so that the rest of us can buy dirt cheap produce.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

What about the other side of this, again?

 

Should i not be allowed to buy bacon with food stamps because others can't afford it? Is it ok that i use food stamps at the farmers market each month? What about my daughter's favorite treat? Should she not be allowed to eat it because we're on food stamps? What if i told you that her most favored treat in the entire world is seaweed crisps? Is that too close to a chip to be allowed?

 

I was able to buy bacon, go to the health food store and farmers market, until this month. I have to re figure everything, yet again.

 

I hate that people are so hung up on "junk" foods to see the other side. We can't win. You dont want your tax dollars to buy the ingredients for my son's birthday cake, but it's also not fair that i get so much of your tax dollars to feed my kids good foods.

[The Girls' Mom]

 

Have you followed how that's worked out in Florida? All it's doing is costing our state lots of money becasue *gasp* they're all passing the drug test! Contrary to popular belief, the majority of those on assisstance aren't drug abusers. They're just people needing help.

 

I'm glad they are passing. Good for them. I still think it should be done. I live in Meth-land USA. There are a LOT of drug users here that are on P.A. There are worse things to waste tax money on.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

 

 

I get sucked into these contentious zombie threads every time... *sigh*

 

Back when my dh was unemployed, we had to deal with this. You get dirty looks if you buy anything processed. You get dirty looks if you buy anything organic. You get dirty looks if you buy any kind of beef that hasn't been ground. You can't win. There are too many people in this country who get off on making themselves feel superior by kicking the people who are "beneath" them. I see it on this board all the time. It's pathetic, and often followed by a few rounds of verbal gymnastics to rationalize how it isn't REALLY judging, Jesus actually hates entitlements, blah blah blah...

 

I should have waited. Lol. I just posted the same (basic) idea.

[elegantlion]

Ah, hades, would this topic die already.

 

How do you suppose to drug test those people who are working? Do you realize that some of those people who are working cannot take off time from work to go pee in a cup for some county worker? Do you realize even if they could sometimes that would eat into the gas money. My county food stamp office is an hour away from where we live. At the price of gas that would make us further behind. That says nothing for the administrative costs for such a worthless program.

 

Here's the thing, it's not your money, it's the government's money. If you don't like how they are handling it, go into politics. If you're concerned about the nutritional value of food being bought then start a program in your middle school about nutrition. Unless you don't care about the nutritional health of people not on food stamps, then that's just sad. You can't control everyone. Middle school nutrition should be a required subject. Personal Finance, not economics, personal finance should be a class started in middle school. Screw algebra for all 7th graders, forget about trying to cram high school into middle school. Why not teach those rebellious middle school kids, they're at the age when they're willing to learn, old enough to voice opinions in their own household and start to own choices.

 

You do realize that stress probably kills more people than a cake or cookies. When the bottom drops out of your life and you need a little help to make sure your child can eat at night, it's stressful enough. This thread has only added to that. Gosh people, get a clue (said in my best Napoleon Dynamite voice)

[Mergath]

 

Well, I am a Christian. I DO think it should be regulated. I don't mind one bit helping the poor. I do hate enabling people to be liars and cheats. Make it so you can purchase only healthy food with food stamps. They are FOOD stamps. Not party stamps. Not fun stamps. I also don't think there is anything un-Christian to think that people who CAN better their circumstances should. If you are able to work, and can find a job..then do it. If you cannot, for reasons out of your control...then yes, I am happy to help.

 

And who gets to decide what constitutes healthy foods? You? Congress? A lot of people think meat is unhealthy, so there goes the majority of protein. Many people think gluten is bad for you, so there goes most of what's left. Quite a few people think fats are extremely bad for you, so we can cross off butter, oil, and all of that. And anyone who has to eat a special diet, well, I guess they're really screwed. But I'm sure the working poor will really enjoy their nuts and beans. No salt on them, though. We all know how bad sodium is for you.

 

Or, instead of having temper tantrums every time someone on FS buys a bag of chips, we could all exert our mental energies toward demanding that large corporations pay their employees a living wage so most of these people don't need FS in the first place.

[elegantlion]

I'm glad they are passing. Good for them. I still think it should be done. I live in Meth-land USA. There are a LOT of drug users here that are on P.A. There are worse things to waste tax money on.

 

So you categorize people who are needing a step up in the same category as meth users? Nice. :confused1:

 

 

Lots of holiday cheer in this thread. :angry:

[The Girls' Mom]

So you categorize people who are needing a step up in the same category as meth users? Nice. :confused1:

 

 

Lots of holiday cheer in this thread. :angry:

 

 

Yeah, because I'm a hateful old bag that way.

 

No. I'm saying that there is blatant abuse by meth users of the system WHERE I live. No where did I say that people in need are on the same level. I HAVE BEEN THERE. People I love have been there. I wouldn't have batted an eye at peeing in a cup to get the help my family needed. Do I think that people should be able to get food stamps so they can sell them or blow what cash they do have on their meth problem? No. I fail to see how that translates into thinking that all people who need assistance are on the same level as meth users.

 

Obviously I am a callous, uncaring person who has no idea what it is like to struggle or need help :glare: so I will bow out of this thread now.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I've also noticed that people are combining 2 different types of aid here.

 

Public assistance and food stamps are different.

 

Public assistance/welfare is cash. It has a nation wide limit of 5 years.

 

Public assistance has to be paid back in a way. You do not receive child support with public assistance. The child support goes to the state, and you get a small "pass through" payment and the pa cash.

 

Supplemental security income (ssi) also replaces pa. I do not qualify for pa because the law takes my son out of the equation since he gets ssi. I am only a family of 2 when applying for pa or medical assistance.

 

When i win my daughters ssi case, a huge chunk of that pays back the pa we had in NY. (I'm not complaining, just stating)

 

Food stamps are not public assistance. It can only be used for food (yes, there are ways around that) and there is no time limit. Food stamps obviously have different brackets. Not all families of 3 get as much as we do if they bring in more money.

 

Someone may only get $100 per month to go towards food, so when you see someone buying a cart full of junk with food stamps, you may be missing the rest of the month's food being paid for with cash.

[elegantlion]

Yeah, because I'm a hateful old bag that way.

 

No. I'm saying that there is blatant abuse by meth users of the system WHERE I live. No where did I say that people in need are on the same level. I HAVE BEEN THERE. People I love have been there. I wouldn't have batted an eye at peeing in a cup to get the help my family needed. Do I think that people should be able to get food stamps so they can sell them or blow what cash they do have on their meth problem? No. I fail to see how that translates into thinking that all people who need assistance are on the same level as meth users.

 

Obviously I am a callous, uncaring person who has no idea what it is like to struggle or need help :glare: so I will bow out of this thread now.

 

I wouldn't care about peeing in a cup either, but the logistics for many people is not workable. It would make it harder for people to get ahead and it would add costs that could be better used elsewhere. People abuse systems period. Many people don't. If you round the equation to the lowest possible denominator, ie: you must prove you're not on drugs before you receive public assistance, then yes you (the government) is categorizing them as drug users, guilty until proved innocent. So, yes, if you're making the assumption that people will abuse a system and be on drugs (honestly, how many drugs users know how to fake a clean test anyway) and waste their money to get a few dollars each month in food aid, it does come across as a bit callous.