Why aren't food stamps regulated like WIC?

[ConnieB]

"So...how about you???? "

 

How sure are you that you know who gives, who does not, and whether they consider it a private matter or a public one?

 

 

Sheesh....it was a challenge...not a dare or a demand. And I don't recall saying that you had to post that you were even doing anything. Sorry you took it that way. Don't.

[Cheryl in NM]

I have been touched by the many personal experiences shared in this thread. My son was born on WIC and I was on food stamps for a short time in college. There were many times I would not have eaten if it weren't for family members feeding me. I understand poor. I don't judge or attach stigma to those less fortunate than myself.

 

However, it doesn't change my opinion that food stamps should be regulated. You can give a man a meal and feed him once or teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. This is the principal behind my opinions on this matter. We need to teach those that can't afford to buy food how to care for themselves. Whether that means planting a garden and harvesting or learning to prepare healthy meals. I don't think the government should tell people what to eat....unless it's footing the bill. As I mentioned before, truly disabled people should receive assistance more fitting to their circumstances.

 

I think it's dangerous to have a government program that allows it's recipients to eat better than those not on the program. The goal of government assistance should be to help those in need and to get them off assistance as soon as possible. Of course, in an ideal world, the needy would be taken care of by churches and neighbors.

[Audrey]

:blushing:

Yes. That's the idea I was after, but I fear many of my responses here have come out sounding rather insensitive.

 

No. I definitely would not put your posts in with the ones who have been insensitive.

[TraceyS/FL]

You really ought to get in to see an attorney (many offer a free consultation and also many will start a case with a very low fee, usually the filing fees, when they know that the other party is the breadwinner, because they know the courts will eventually award your attorney fees to be paid by them.). Leaving you and the children without money to buy necessities is definitely frowned on by the courts...big time. Now...if you mean that he's living there and paying the bills, semi-filling the fridge, perhaps not with what you want, but there is food to available, then it's a little harder, but not impossible. But if he's basically making you and the children go hungry or forcing you to ask shelters/food pantry etc for food, then the Court will not be happy with him.

I have one.... it's been going on since January.

 

There is a conflict in the definition of "providing for" at this point, and whose needs he is required to pay for.... i probably can't say more than that (he apparently reads here).

 

And...if his being there is causing emotional distress on you or the children (or worse), the attorney can request that the Court order him out of the house. Of course, many factors weigh in on this, but it's never quite as hopeless as some people think, and an attorney will be able to give you some idea of what you are entitled to and what to expect.

 

Actually, the judge won't at this point order anyone out of the home. Too early in the process - he did say that it was making it 100 times harder on us AND the kids to all be living together, but stated he wouldn't order anyone out yet.

 

It's just a very slow process at this point..... and expensive.

[ConnieB]

I have one.... it's been going on since January.

 

There is a conflict in the definition of "providing for" at this point, and whose needs he is required to pay for.... i probably can't say more than that (he apparently reads here).

 

 

 

Actually, the judge won't at this point order anyone out of the home. Too early in the process - he did say that it was making it 100 times harder on us AND the kids to all be living together, but stated he wouldn't order anyone out yet.

 

It's just a very slow process at this point..... and expensive.

 

I'm so sorry that you have such a jerk for a Judge. I won't give my opinion on your ex....since he reads here, lol.

[phathui5]

Hmmm, now that you mention it, it isn't okay.

 

Are you serious?

[Moxie]

Are you serious?

 

Yes.

[phathui5]

You know the person with the snack food and soda in their cart may not have purchased something like that in a long time.

 

I got food stamps for a while when ds1 was a baby and I went on a spending spree at Whole Foods to use it all up. Prepackaged vegan foods to take to work, tons of fruit, cookies. I miss that. I had like $250 a month for just me and the baby, which seemed like a ton of money after having been spending $30/week on my groceries.

[st_claire]

I haven't read all of the other posts, but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.

 

I'm also in Canada, and as was mentioned, we don't have food stamps or WIC or anything that gives money for food. We have "food banks". People donate money or food, and companies donate food they can't sell (the cheese is the wrong colour in KD mac & cheese for example, but nutritionally and safety wise the same, day old bread, etc...) People go there, wait in lines, and get a free box of food. We even have a pet food bank.

 

This nice things about food banks is they run on voluntary donations. So if someone gets a cake in their box, sweet for them. It doesn't cost anyone who doesn't want to give.

 

Everyone has different ideas of what's a staple and what isn't. Why should the gov get to pick and choose what counts?

 

Call your gov representative, let them know that you do not support food stamps. Start a food bank in your area and show people that there is a better way. If you qualify for food stamps, use them. At least the money will not be wasted on beurocracy that way. If you qualify but don't need them, use them to buy food that you give away to those who need it.

 

:)

[phathui5]

Start a food bank in your area and show people that there is a better way.

 

That can be a toss up though. We had to go to different food banks when we had a homeless family living here (so it was 3 adults, 6 kids, 1 low income). The food was useable about 3/4 of the time. We also got food with bugs in it, meat that was 6 months expired, and junk food, lots of junk food.

[st_claire]

That can be a toss up though. We had to go to different food banks when we had a homeless family living here (so it was 3 adults, 6 kids, 1 low income). The food was useable about 3/4 of the time. We also got food with bugs in it, meat that was 6 months expired, and junk food, lots of junk food.

 

 

Wow. I have never heard of bad food from a food bank. I guess ours are well run here. Well for anyone who wants to start one, make sure your volunteers know what donations to keep and what to toss.

 

Junk food is good though, people like junk food. You obviously don't want just junk food, but some is always a nice treat.

[caitlinsmom]

Hmmm. No, I don't think I'd know those, either. :tongue_smilie:

 

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I don't pay much attention to other folks' grocery carts or how they choose to pay, but if I did...

 

There is such a stigma attached to living in a lower class--to needing public assistance. I might assume, if I noticed someone paying for their groceries with food stamps while carrying a brand name bag and wearing 'gold' jewelry and 'designer' clothing that maybe none of it is the real thing. Maybe she is trying to appear as if she belongs. Maybe she's ashamed. Maybe she doesn't want people to notice that she has a hard time making it.

 

I don't know...I just imagine it's really hard knowing that everyone thinks you're 'lazy' because you don't earn enough money.

 

I haven't finished the thread yet so forgive me if some of this is mentioned. The statement above and a few others have hit a sore spot in me. We are a family that is on food stamps. We have been for a very humiliating year. My husband works a FT job with overtime most months, we have no debt, we own our home. We live VERY simply. I shop only at the thrift stores and spend generally less than $100 a year on our families clothes. I search racks to find brands like Gap, Old Navy, Tommy, etc. not because I give a flying crap about brand names but because I can resell them at the end of the year and get my clothing budget back.

 

For those who haven't ever had the neccessity of food stamps count yourselves lucky. It is humiliating and embarassing and as the above poster mentioned makes me feel ashamed. People in line behind me roll their eyes, make snickers and give dirty looks....especially if I am wearing a cute outfit. The outfit probably cost $3 max but still, I should have used that for food I suppose. I definatly qualify for WIC but am already so embarassed by our food stamps that I refuse to apply for WIC because bringing that little voucher out of my purse is one more slap in my face that we can not provide enough for our family.

 

We do not shop in our town because we don't want to run into anyone we know. If we have to get an emergency dozen eggs and there is someone in line we know we will browse the store until they leave. Dramatic, yes, but we do live in a gossipy little place.

 

Not that that is even on topic so sorry about that. As for being regulated I have often thought this would be a good thing too. I buy things only that I can cook from scratch. 70% of my budget goes to fresh produce. However like someone said there is the ocassional time when I have bought a carton of ice cream, like for the kids birthday. I feel bad about it each time, like I am not afforded the luxury of junk food because I do get food stamps. Anyway it would be nice to put a regulation on things like soda and what not but really there are so many different circumstances that we can't regulate peoples decisions to that degree.

 

ETA: In fact we are selling our home so that we no longer have to be on food stamps. We are one of the ignorant people who bought a home with an adjustable rate mortgage and have been nearly tossed out because of the interest rate clauses. We are willing to give up our home so that we no longer have to been in this position.

Edited May 28, 2009 by caitlinsmom

[Melinda in VT]

That can be a toss up though. We had to go to different food banks when we had a homeless family living here (so it was 3 adults, 6 kids, 1 low income). The food was useable about 3/4 of the time. We also got food with bugs in it, meat that was 6 months expired, and junk food, lots of junk food.

 

There has been a big push in our area to get more fresh produce to the foodbank. At least one local farm give the foodbank a gift certificate that the foodbank can use throughout the year to buy produce from the farm. And our foodbank recently bought a local farm so they can grow their own produce.

[st_claire]

ETA: In fact we are selling our home so that we no longer have to be on food stamps. We are one of the ignorant people who bought a home with an adjustable rate mortgage and have been nearly tossed out because of the interest rate clauses. We are willing to give up our home so that we no longer have to been in this position.

 

:grouphug: You shouldn't feel ashamed for using food stamps. They are there, you ought to use them. Same with WIC. Go, use them. And yes, look cute in your outfits! :p

 

I think selling the home is a good idea. Homes are a huge money pit. You will probably feel much less stressed when you don't have the house bills to stress about.

[mom2tbcnm]

I haven't read all these replys, but my dh is out of work and has been for 4 months. I would LOVE to get food stamps, but can't because we have too much in the bank. You have to have less than 2000 to your name to qualify. YIKES. We will have to lose our house and vehicle before we could qualify, so anyone who is buying luxury stuff while on FS may not be being truthful.

 

I do totally agree that the amount that you can get is way more than is necessary. I am spending about 120 for 2 weeks for my family of 6.

 

Katy

[SeekingSimplicity]

I've not read completely thru this yet, so forgive me if I'm repeating anything here. We are part of the working poor, and we are on food stamps right now. And it's not for the fun of it.

 

I think if you were to regulate it you would get into some really hairy stuff. Here all groceries are taxed. With foodstamps you can buy any food items except hot food (this is changed during times when there is an emergency, like after Katrina) If no one can buy pop or chips does that mean that I can never again have fritos with my homemade chili just because I honestly don't have a dollar to spend on generic corn chips? Could I never again make a crock pot recipe that calls for adding sprite or coke? What if you're diabetic and you're in line buying groceries when your blood sugar crashes? Can you not buy a candy bar? (this has happened to us before) 3 out of the 5 people in my household have special dietary needs, it gets really expensive. The WIC here does not give vouchers, you go to a warehouse house and pick up shelf stable milk and powdered eggs. One of my dd's cannot eat a single thing that WIC offers. If FS were regulated in the same way, I don't know how we would feed her without loosing our home or having our electricity cut off.

 

I've seen abuse of FS. Where my husband works her sees people with mulitple EBT cards and hudreds of dollars on each-- and no reason for them to have them (yk, like people he knows are not supporting families). They know how to work the system. I've seen people go thru the check out line with buggies full of koolaid drinks, cases of coke, and chips and cookies with out a single piece of nutritious food. This while I try to figure out how I feed my family brown rice instead of white, or get a little more produce than a bag of apples or a head of cabbage.

 

I understand the frustration of seeing the system abused, but I have some concerns about it being regulated. I guess I would have to see how it was regulated before I could say if that was a good thing or a bad thing.

[st_claire]

I haven't read all these replys, but my dh is out of work and has been for 4 months. I would LOVE to get food stamps, but can't because we have too much in the bank. You have to have less than 2000 to your name to qualify. YIKES. We will have to lose our house and vehicle before we could qualify, so anyone who is buying luxury stuff while on FS may not be being truthful.

 

I do totally agree that the amount that you can get is way more than is necessary. I am spending about 120 for 2 weeks for my family of 6.

 

Katy

 

 

Do you have any family that you trust 100%? Give them the money. Then you qualify. They can give you "gifts" of money whenever you need it.

[SeekingSimplicity]

He is still living in the house - but i have no access to funds.

 

It's really not a pretty thing to be going thru at all.....

 

 

On applications I have filled out, it ask who all is included in your case then in another spot it ask who lives in your house that is not included in your case. It seems like you could apply and let them know that although your DH is still living in the same house with you that you are seperated and have no access to his money and still be able to get FS.

[Nestof3]

Do you have any family that you trust 100%? Give them the money. Then you qualify. They can give you "gifts" of money whenever you need it.

 

Wow -- such integrity.

[st_claire]

Wow -- such integrity.

 

 

I don't see anything dishonest about it. What is dishonest is the gov basically hold a gun to people's head forcing them to pay for things like food stamps. Bending the rules of the system, not breaking them, is what I am suggesting.

 

It is not illegal, it does not harm anyone, and it is working against an unjust system.

[Harriet Vane]

I haven't finished the thread yet so forgive me if some of this is mentioned. The statement above and a few others have hit a sore spot in me. We are a family that is on food stamps. We have been for a very humiliating year. My husband works a FT job with overtime most months, we have no debt, we own our home. We live VERY simply. I shop only at the thrift stores and spend generally less than $100 a year on our families clothes. I search racks to find brands like Gap, Old Navy, Tommy, etc. not because I give a flying crap about brand names but because I can resell them at the end of the year and get my clothing budget back.

 

For those who haven't ever had the neccessity of food stamps count yourselves lucky. It is humiliating and embarassing and as the above poster mentioned makes me feel ashamed. People in line behind me roll their eyes, make snickers and give dirty looks....especially if I am wearing a cute outfit. The outfit probably cost $3 max but still, I should have used that for food I suppose. I definatly qualify for WIC but am already so embarassed by our food stamps that I refuse to apply for WIC because bringing that little voucher out of my purse is one more slap in my face that we can not provide enough for our family.

 

We do not shop in our town because we don't want to run into anyone we know. If we have to get an emergency dozen eggs and there is someone in line we know we will browse the store until they leave. Dramatic, yes, but we do live in a gossipy little place.

 

Not that that is even on topic so sorry about that. As for being regulated I have often thought this would be a good thing too. I buy things only that I can cook from scratch. 70% of my budget goes to fresh produce. However like someone said there is the ocassional time when I have bought a carton of ice cream, like for the kids birthday. I feel bad about it each time, like I am not afforded the luxury of junk food because I do get food stamps. Anyway it would be nice to put a regulation on things like soda and what not but really there are so many different circumstances that we can't regulate peoples decisions to that degree.

 

ETA: In fact we are selling our home so that we no longer have to be on food stamps. We are one of the ignorant people who bought a home with an adjustable rate mortgage and have been nearly tossed out because of the interest rate clauses. We are willing to give up our home so that we no longer have to been in this position.

 

:grouphug:

 

I really hate the threads about food stamps--good people end up getting hurt.

 

I was terribly poor for many years of my life. We were poor growing up, and there were a couple years that our family lived on food stamps. Through high school and college I was responsible for myself (especially in college I was totally independent of anyone) and was terribly, terribly poor through all those years. It is so hard to live on such a tight budget.

 

I know all about thrift store shopping. It is VERY possible to dress nicely on a very limited budget if you are creative and know how to hunt. I made it with thrift store shopping, sewing for myself a LOT, and shamelessly (but oh so gratefully) borrowing friends' clothes for special occasions. Looking at a food stamp recipient's clothing does not tell anything about where they spend their money.

 

A close relative of mine is currently living on public aid and trying to raise five children alone while his wife lingers and will eventually die of a brain tumor. It is so very, very tight for them. He was never taught to cook, and he works a lot of hours for very little pay. He relies on packaged food a fair amount because he is barely keeping his nose above water. Yes, it would be cheaper and healthier to cook from scratch . . . but his life is so very intense, it is downright cruel to ask him to add one more thing.

 

In addition to my personal experience and that of my uncle, I also presently live in an area of the city with a large population of the poor. I am familiar with both the long-term abusers of the system, and I am familiar with the working poor. The honest, working poor far outnumber those who abuse the system. They are people who put in long, hard hours and who struggle, each day, for the basics.

 

It's all too easy to look at another person's cart, or their clothing, and to make uninformed, ignorant judgments.

 

I'm so sorry your circumstances are so hard. I pray God leads you to a more comfortable place soon.

[angela in ohio]

Do you have any family that you trust 100%? Give them the money. Then you qualify. They can give you "gifts" of money whenever you need it.

 

I'm pretty sure that would be considered fraud (moral issues aside.)

[st_claire]

I'm pretty sure that would be considered fraud (moral issues aside.)

 

 

Why? AFAIK there are no rules that prevent someone from giving a gift of money to, say, their parents. And no rules against those parents giving gifts back to their kid later. It may not be in the spirit of the law, but, again AFAIK, it's in the letter of it.

[Greta]

my challenge to you is to make a few changes to your cart choices this week and use the saved cash to pick up some non-perishables (be they staples or treats) and drop them off at a local pantry....

So...how about you????

 

Connie, I think that is a lovely idea! I wholeheartedly support public programs like food stamps, WIC, etc. But I could do more. My family has been hit by this economic downturn, but not nearly as hard as many other families have. So I can definitely afford to help a little. Thank you for the inspiration!!!!

[mommytobees]

Just a thought for you...

 

I have a friend in almost the same position. She started to sell Avon, to herself and to her mom. Found a few other people here and there who knew her situation (mostly through church) and now she makes around $250-$500 a month in "income". BUT, this income is considered "earned" where she lives. Thus allowing her to get food stamps. Not a perfect solution, but it works and allows her to stay home with her special needs children.

 

Just a thought.

 

Kris

[LMA]

I haven't read most of the replies, but if people start trying to tell food stamp recipients how to spend their benefits, then why not tell people on Medicaid and Medicare how they need to give up their bad health habits in order to have medical treatment paid by tax dollars? You could extend this to just about every government program that pays people a benefit.

 

(And I do not support telling food stamp recipients how to spend their benefits.)

[caitlinsmom]

Why? AFAIK there are no rules that prevent someone from giving a gift of money to, say, their parents. And no rules against those parents giving gifts back to their kid later. It may not be in the spirit of the law, but, again AFAIK, it's in the letter of it.

 

As far as my state goes any money that puts the applicant over the income limit has to be reported. It doesn't matter if you gave plasma you have to report if it puts you over, gifts included. The only thing that doesn't go towards that income limit is school financial aid and student loans.

 

But like I said that is just where I live.

[lionfamily1999]

I haven't read most of the replies, but if people start trying to tell food stamp recipients how to spend their benefits, then why not tell people on Medicaid and Medicare how they need to give up their bad health habits in order to have medical treatment paid by tax dollars? You could extend this to just about every government program that pays people a benefit.

 

(And I do not support telling food stamp recipients how to spend their benefits.)

Or telling seniors how to spend their SS, or the disabled how to spend their benefits.

 

Lots of times people ignore how they would limit their own rights, choosing instead to lament how others aren't doing the right thing.

[caitlinsmom]

:grouphug:

 

I really hate the threads about food stamps--good people end up getting hurt.

 

I was terribly poor for many years of my life. We were poor growing up, and there were a couple years that our family lived on food stamps. Through high school and college I was responsible for myself (especially in college I was totally independent of anyone) and was terribly, terribly poor through all those years. It is so hard to live on such a tight budget.

 

I know all about thrift store shopping. It is VERY possible to dress nicely on a very limited budget if you are creative and know how to hunt. I made it with thrift store shopping, sewing for myself a LOT, and shamelessly (but oh so gratefully) borrowing friends' clothes for special occasions. Looking at a food stamp recipient's clothing does not tell anything about where they spend their money.

 

A close relative of mine is currently living on public aid and trying to raise five children alone while his wife lingers and will eventually die of a brain tumor. It is so very, very tight for them. He was never taught to cook, and he works a lot of hours for very little pay. He relies on packaged food a fair amount because he is barely keeping his nose above water. Yes, it would be cheaper and healthier to cook from scratch . . . but his life is so very intense, it is downright cruel to ask him to add one more thing.

 

In addition to my personal experience and that of my uncle, I also presently live in an area of the city with a large population of the poor. I am familiar with both the long-term abusers of the system, and I am familiar with the working poor. The honest, working poor far outnumber those who abuse the system. They are people who put in long, hard hours and who struggle, each day, for the basics.

 

It's all too easy to look at another person's cart, or their clothing, and to make uninformed, ignorant judgments.

 

I'm so sorry your circumstances are so hard. I pray God leads you to a more comfortable place soon.

 

No one getting hurt here. :) I happen to agree somewhat with some things have been said. I think the thing that makes this topic tricky is that everyone is quick to assume and judge. Sometimes those judgments are correct and others way off the mark. The system isnt perfect in any way and there are definatly those who choose to abuse it. I try to put aside the judgements that I have and have faith that those who are using the system are using it in a way that shows integrity.

[Michelle T]

Do you all carefully watch the person ahead of you, and take note of how they pay? Are you really watching to see if they use food stamps or not?

 

I'm generally unloading my groceries onto the counter when the person ahead is paying.

Michelle T

[st_claire]

As far as my state goes any money that puts the applicant over the income limit has to be reported. It doesn't matter if you gave plasma you have to report if it puts you over, gifts included. The only thing that doesn't go towards that income limit is school financial aid and student loans.

 

But like I said that is just where I live.

 

Wow. That seems rife with problems. Like if someone gets a one time xmas gift for example.

 

Would any of these work arounds work where you are: parent gives to grandparents, grandparents give cash gifts to grandchildren? grandparents give gifts of food/equipment/car repair/whatever to family instead of cash?

[earthmother]

when I was 17 (ages ago) and worked as a cashier, quite a few folks would buy the 17 cent kool-aid packs to get the change. Then they'd come back and do it again. Until they had enough change to buy cigarettes and beer. I'm all for WIC. Love it-great plan. food stamps needs some revamping. Obviously 20 years later it still hasn't been figured out.

[LMA]

Do you all carefully watch the person ahead of you, and take note of how they pay? Are you really watching to see if they use food stamps or not?

 

I'm generally unloading my groceries onto the counter when the person ahead is paying.

Michelle T

 

Around here the benefits are done on the credit card machine with a debit-like card called an EBT (electronic benefits transfer), so there are no more "stamps" or coupons to hand to the cashier. So an EBT recipient is not distinguishable from anyone paying with a debit or credit card.

 

I never watched anyone else's cart, but I know people watch mine. I have had people tell me I shouldn't buy baby formula and that I should breastfeed. Others have assumed I was on WIC by the amount of ready-made baby formula I bought at one time (usually 2 dozen bottles at once) and said something to me about being on WIC. I have had others tell me that I shouldn't be a single mom (I couldn't wear my wedding ring due to pregnancy weight gain). Etc. So, having been on the receiving end of judgmental comments, I would not tell "food stamp" recipients how to buy their food. And I assume the best about anyone receiving benefits. I assume that they are trying their best to provide for their family.

 

Louise

[Elaine]

That is exactly what I wanted to say. I think the stuff people are buying, generally, they are buying because they don't know any better. Not just people on food stamps either.

 

If I were designing the food stamp program, I would limit it, like WIC does. But people would have to be educated on what is healthy because there are people who think danimals or gogurt is good for children. :confused:

 

:iagree:

[caitlinsmom]

Wow. That seems rife with problems. Like if someone gets a one time xmas gift for example.

 

Would any of these work arounds work where you are: parent gives to grandparents, grandparents give cash gifts to grandchildren? grandparents give gifts of food/equipment/car repair/whatever to family instead of cash?

 

Any cash amount that puts you over the income limit has to be reported in 10 days. (And people have been kicked off for being over $10) My understanding is that people could give gifts of food or pay for car problems such as I could go to my church and ask for assitance to pay an electric bill and that would be okay. Although I do belive that "gifts" such as those have to be reported also.

It's all about income and it doesn't matter where it comes from. I know there are different limitations and regulations based on where you qualify on their scale so someone else might have to report changes differently than another person based on their individual circumstances.

[unsinkable]

I've not read completely thru this yet, so forgive me if I'm repeating anything here. We are part of the working poor, and we are on food stamps right now. And it's not for the fun of it.

 

I think if you were to regulate it you would get into some really hairy stuff. Here all groceries are taxed. With foodstamps you can buy any food items except hot food (this is changed during times when there is an emergency, like after Katrina) If no one can buy pop or chips does that mean that I can never again have fritos with my homemade chili just because I honestly don't have a dollar to spend on generic corn chips? Could I never again make a crock pot recipe that calls for adding sprite or coke? What if you're diabetic and you're in line buying groceries when your blood sugar crashes? Can you not buy a candy bar? (this has happened to us before) 3 out of the 5 people in my household have special dietary needs, it gets really expensive. The WIC here does not give vouchers, you go to a warehouse house and pick up shelf stable milk and powdered eggs. One of my dd's cannot eat a single thing that WIC offers. If FS were regulated in the same way, I don't know how we would feed her without loosing our home or having our electricity cut off.

 

I've seen abuse of FS. Where my husband works her sees people with mulitple EBT cards and hudreds of dollars on each-- and no reason for them to have them (yk, like people he knows are not supporting families). They know how to work the system. I've seen people go thru the check out line with buggies full of koolaid drinks, cases of coke, and chips and cookies with out a single piece of nutritious food. This while I try to figure out how I feed my family brown rice instead of white, or get a little more produce than a bag of apples or a head of cabbage.

 

I understand the frustration of seeing the system abused, but I have some concerns about it being regulated. I guess I would have to see how it was regulated before I could say if that was a good thing or a bad thing.

 

can your dh turn the cheaters in?

[Cheryl in NM]

If no one can buy pop or chips does that mean that I can never again have fritos with my homemade chili just because I honestly don't have a dollar to spend on generic corn chips?Could I never again make a crock pot recipe that calls for adding sprite or coke?

It won't be forever. It's a short term sacrifice. People on food stamps are not entitled to corn chips or soda pop on my tax dollar. I'm not trying to be rude here, really, I'm not.

What if you're diabetic and you're in line buying groceries when your blood sugar crashes? Can you not buy a candy bar? (this has happened to us before)

You REALLY could not have seen that coming? Again, I'm not trying to be insensitive, but don't sugar crashes happen because you haven't kept the level where they need to be? If not, then carry some hard candy everywhere that was purchased with other household money. It's a medical expense and should be made a priority over other household expenses.

 

ETA: Again, I'm not trying to be rude or insensitive. I've been there, I understand. I missed the chips and soda.

 

Just a thought for you...

 

I have a friend in almost the same position. She started to sell Avon, to herself and to her mom. Found a few other people here and there who knew her situation (mostly through church) and now she makes around $250-$500 a month in "income". BUT, this income is considered "earned" where she lives. Thus allowing her to get food stamps. Not a perfect solution, but it works and allows her to stay home with her special needs children.

 

Just a thought.

 

Kris

 

I love this!

 

I haven't read most of the replies, but if people start trying to tell food stamp recipients how to spend their benefits, then why not tell people on Medicaid and Medicare how they need to give up their bad health habits in order to have medical treatment paid by tax dollars? You could extend this to just about every government program that pays people a benefit.

 

(And I do not support telling food stamp recipients how to spend their benefits.)

 

I support controlling food stamps better to prevent medical conditions caused by poor diet. Of course, we should take care of people when they are sick.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Cheryl in NM

[Carrie12345]

Do you all carefully watch the person ahead of you, and take note of how they pay? Are you really watching to see if they use food stamps or not?

 

I'm generally unloading my groceries onto the counter when the person ahead is paying.

Michelle T

 

Honestly, I do glance at people's carts.

I'm a Grocery Game shopper, and I know how funny my cart sometimes looks. I think it's fun to compare mine to a "normal" shopper's, lol.

 

I don't pay attention to how other people pay b/c I'm busy trying to get all of my items on the belt so I can be ready to bag before the cashier messes up my system :lol:

But I have been a grocery store cashier, so it was my job to know how people were paying.

[StaceyinLA]

I, too, feel that the purchases should be regulated to healthy, mostly unprepared foods. I also believe that it should include certain toilet items. I think it's sad that one can purchase 50, 2 liter cokes, but not a single roll of toilet tissue. I mean, really, most who are on food stamps could also use the help in purchasing the basic necessities of life (you know, the things you truly can't live without - toilet tissue, feminine protection, etc).

 

I was on food stamps when my first husband left me with 4 small children. We certainly did eat better on food stamps than we probably ever have since (they allow you so much, and it has to be used within a certain time period). I was able to get cuts of meat I couldn't have afforded otherwise, more cheeses and things that I normally wouldn't have been able to purchase.

 

That being said, I NEVER bought junk food. I bought staples, meats, cheeses, eggs, juices, etc. During the period I was on food stamps, I was automatically eligible for WIC (something I think is ridiculous). I didn't accept it because I felt it was double-dipping, and it certainly would've been for me, since I could hardly spend all the food stamps.

 

We have certainly reached a point where we can buy pretty much anything we want as far as food goes (not saying we do - I still work on a budget), and I still do not think food money spent on (most) prepared foods, or junk food, is food money spent wisely AT ALL!

 

**And just to add, if the diets were altered somewhat via food stamp restrictions, wouldn't the medical costs begin to be lessened as well? Of course, then there is the whole public school cafeteria system that needs to be revamped. I guess I shouldn't have gotten started...

Edited May 28, 2009 by StaceyinLA

[Elizabeth Conley]

Originally Posted by Michelle T

Do you all carefully watch the person ahead of you, and take note of how they pay? Are you really watching to see if they use food stamps or not?

 

I'm generally unloading my groceries onto the counter when the person ahead is paying.

Michelle T

 

 

In spite of unloading my groceries organized in the order and subgroups I want them bagged, the task engages a small fraction of my attention.

 

For me, there's a balance. I try to afford people privacy, and deliberately not see or hear things I'm not supposed to see or hear. I don't get close to people at the ATM, or when they're conducting a financial transaction. Courtesy requires that one not "see or hear" these things.

 

On the other hand, I'm a people watcher by nature. The habit of being observant is so ingrained that my mind is going to process a lot of details about a person who is in such close proximity for 5-10 minutes. I like humanity, and find people intriguing. I'm also fairly outgoing, particularly with children. It's not unusual for my kids or me to distract someone's small child during their financial transaction, in order to keep the kid from being disruptive. If someone can't easily lift something from their cart, we generally lift it for them.

 

In our state (VA) the food stamp funds are loaded onto a "cardinal card". It's been my experience that cardinal card transactions don't process very smoothly. They seem to work with about the same degree of reliability that credit cards and ATM cards used to work about 20 years ago. Remember when there was always some niggling doubt in your mind that a transaction would go through? The "system" seemed to stutter about 20% of the time, usually when you would find it most inconvenient or humiliating. I think the credit card companies figured out that this problem was costing them $$$, because they fixed it. Whether Cardinal Cards will ever work smoothly is an open question. For now, a glimpse of a cardinal card in the line before me functions as a simple, matter of fact warning: "This is going to take a while!"

 

So no, I have no desire to intrude on people's privacy, but I do observe at least as many details about the people around me. At least 20 % of people function this way. They observe what's going on around them because they find almost everything interesting, and much of what they observe useful. Being observant allows people to see more patterns in the world around them and live more deliberately, instead of wallowing in "s#it happens" mode.

[Pamela H in Texas]

She started to sell Avon, to herself and to her mom. Found a few other people here and there who knew her situation (mostly through church) and now she makes around $250-$500 a month in "income". BUT, this income is considered "earned" where she lives. Thus allowing her to get food stamps. Not a perfect solution, but it works and allows her to stay home with her special needs children.

 

I missed some of this discussion (can't keep up even though I live on here while I'm working!).

 

But could someone who needs to stay home with special needs children do something like LiveOps or West@Home or ACDDIRECT and just work a couple hours when the kids are sleeping? A LOT of parents (and homeschooelers) work late night or early morning, the times you'd make more money on this kind of job anyway.

 

But there are lots of avon, mary kay, pampered chef type jobs to do "on the side" too.

 

I'm sorry if I am missing some big piece. My son has special needs that required me to be home when he was younger also. Now *I* have special needs that require me to be home. But of course, everyone's situation is different....

[Elizabeth Conley]

I, too, feel that the purchases should be regulated to healthy, mostly unprepared foods. I also believe that it should include certain toilet items. I think it's sad that one can purchase 50, 2 liter cokes, but not a single roll of toilet tissue. I mean, really, most who are on food stamps could also use the help in purchasing the basic necessities of life (you know, the things you truly can't live without - toilet tissue, feminine protection, etc).

 

You make a good point here. I have noticed that many low income families in our community buy their soap products and paper products from the Dollar Tree. I cringe at this, because ounce for ounce, sheet for sheet, item for item, these products are usually MORE expensive than what I purchase at the grocer's.

[SeekingSimplicity]

It won't be forever. It's a short term sacrifice. People on food stamps are not entitled to corn chips or soda pop on my tax dollar. I'm not trying to be rude here, really, I'm not.

 

 

 

My point was, what one person may consider unhealthy and unnecessary, another person may consider to be a necessary component of a recipe, or just plain necessary.

 

From there you could get really nit-picky and ask if you will allow people to eat white bread. It is not healthy by any stretch of the imagination, so why should they be allowed to buy it if not chips and coke? So restict them to only wheat bread. But wheat bread cost twice what white bread does, so would you then all an increase benefits to allow for higher quality food?

And if you want to get right down to it, the only foods we really need to survive are water and vegetation. People who eat nothing but fruits/veggies/nuts are not only healthy but usually much healthier than people on a standard american diet. Why allow anything else at all? It's superfluous. Cut all dairy, meat and grains. No one needs them.

 

Yes, I'm being extreme here. BUt as I said, I would really have to see what this restriction looked like before I could say if I was for or against it.

 

 

 

 

You REALLY could not have seen that coming? Again, I'm not trying to be insensitive, but don't sugar crashes happen because you haven't kept the level where they need to be? If not, then carry some hard candy everywhere that was purchased with other household money. It's a medical expense and should be made a priority over other household expenses.

 

ETA: Again, I'm not trying to be rude or insensitive. I've been there, I understand. I missed the chips and soda.

 

 

 

 

No he couldn't see it coming. I'm talking about a severe diabetic who blood sugar plumets and sky rockets that fast. He's on a roller coaster and we can't afford the meds he's supposed to be on to control it. Instead we're buying the cheapest insulin available to us, and it doesn't do for him what the kind prescribed for him does.

He does keep snacks with him, but if his snack is in the car, or he has eaten all his snacks already (or any of numberous other senerios) he may need something, and we're broke enough that we usually don't have the cash for that kind of thing.

[SeekingSimplicity]

can your dh turn the cheaters in?

 

 

IDK. I"m not sure who you would tell or what you would tell them. Knowing DH tho he would figure if they managed to get all those cards, then it probably wouldn't do a bit of good to tell the people who gave them to them.

[Elizabeth Conley]

Long, long ago, about 24 years in the past, I processed travel claims as a Sgt in the U.S. Marines. A few of the officers were really slick about padding their claims. They were pretty well educated, and they knew exactly what they could get away with and what they couldn't. Their subordinates would hear them boasting about their "windfalls" and try to emulate the officers' scams. Unfortunately their attempts at emulation weren't as clever as the officers' scams were. It was very easy for me to spot. Knowing full well that if I could spot it, so could the Warrent Officer in charge of my section, I'd send the claim back to its author with the gentle suggestion that it "needed to be ammended". Sometimes the claim "needed to be ammended" about 4 times before the author of the claim figured out that it wasn't going to get processed until the obvious false statements were removed.

 

Dealing with a population where there's a "pandemic of dishonesty" is very difficult. The honest people in the system suffer from the blanket suspicion focused on the entire group. The dishonest people, both clever and careless, feel entitled to cheat. If "everyone" is doing it, (and they truly believe only the "stupid" people are not), then by cheating, they're only "collecting their fair share".

 

I know, it sounds crazy. When we see people through eyes of love, we can understand this feeling of entitlement, and still want the harmful behavior to stop.

 

How to persuade people to stop cheating, yet not harm them, is the challenge. After all, the food stamp cheat's child still needs to eat. S/he still needs to eat. What do we do? Very frustrating.

 

Worst of all, the red tape set in place to prevent cheating makes it complicated for honest applicants to get the help they need. Grrrr!

Edited May 29, 2009 by Elizabeth Conley

[joannqn]

No he couldn't see it coming. I'm talking about a severe diabetic who blood sugar plumets and sky rockets that fast. He's on a roller coaster and we can't afford the meds he's supposed to be on to control it. Instead we're buying the cheapest insulin available to us, and it doesn't do for him what the kind prescribed for him does.

 

He does keep snacks with him, but if his snack is in the car, or he has eaten all his snacks already (or any of numberous other senerios) he may need something, and we're broke enough that we usually don't have the cash for that kind of thing.

 

:iagree:

 

To say that every diabetic should be able to see a blood sugar crash coming, means you don't know much about diabetes. I had a friend who couldn't regulate her blood sugar reliably with food and injections, and she was very conscientious about taking care of herself. The doctors had to finally put her on an insulin pump to help prevent those severe crashes. Now she lives with a tube going into her torso with a small pump attached to it all day every day.

 

I'm not diabetic, but rather am hypoglycemic when I'm pregnant. It's a problem normally associated with diabetes and getting too much insulin. I carry Glucerna bars (kind of a diabetic protein bar) in my purse; they cost about $2 each. I never leave home without one because my blood sugar can crash without warning. I'll literally be fine one minute and not the next. Even though I carry something with me, I then have to get to real food pretty quickly. And I never know how long I have between meals; sometimes I can go 3 hours between meals, other times I need to eat an hour after the last meal.

[Cheryl in NM]

My point was, what one person may consider unhealthy and unnecessary, another person may consider to be a necessary component of a recipe, or just plain necessary.

 

My point is that those recipes should be saved until the fs recipient is better off financially and can afford those ingredients. If I can't afford them without government assistance why in the world should the government pay for them for those on assistance? It makes government assistance a temptation to those who are struggling to buy their own food, but can afford to. I believe food stamps should be a last resort. As in, "We won't eat at all without food stamps". When your way of life is no different on food stamps then why strive to become self sufficient again?

 

From there you could get really nit-picky and ask if you will allow people to eat white bread. It is not healthy by any stretch of the imagination, so why should they be allowed to buy it if not chips and coke? So restict them to only wheat bread. But wheat bread cost twice what white bread does, so would you then all an increase benefits to allow for higher quality food?

 

This is just ridiculous. White bread might not be nutional sound but it not in the same category as chips, sodas and candy!

 

And if you want to get right down to it, the only foods we really need to survive are water and vegetation. People who eat nothing but fruits/veggies/nuts are not only healthy but usually much healthier than people on a standard american diet. Why allow anything else at all? It's superfluous. Cut all dairy, meat and grains. No one needs them.

 

Actually, vegetarians have to work very hard to stay as healthy as those who eat lean, healthy meats. Humans NEED meat protein. We were made to eat it, but that's a whole different discussion.

 

Yes, I'm being extreme here. BUt as I said, I would really have to see what this restriction looked like before I could say if I was for or against it.

 

On the other hand I wasn't being extreme in any of my comments. Of course, the regulations would have to make sense. As with all government regulation it could get out of hand easily.

 

 

No he couldn't see it coming. I'm talking about a severe diabetic who blood sugar plumets and sky rockets that fast. He's on a roller coaster and we can't afford the meds he's supposed to be on to control it. Instead we're buying the cheapest insulin available to us, and it doesn't do for him what the kind prescribed for him does.

He does keep snacks with him, but if his snack is in the car, or he has eaten all his snacks already (or any of numberous other senerios) he may need something, and we're broke enough that we usually don't have the cash for that kind of thing.

 

That's why I was asking, I don't know much about insulin dependent diabetes. I would just keep a few snacks in my purse at all times. His life depends on it.

 

Dealing with a population where there's a "pandemic of dishonesty" is very difficult. The honest people in the system suffer from the blanket suspicion focused on the entire group. The dishonest people, both clever and careless, feel entitled to cheat. If "everyone" is doing it, (and they truly believe only the "stupid" people are not), then by cheating, they're only "collecting their fair share".

 

I know, it sounds crazy. When we see people through eyes of love, we can understand this feeling of entitlement, and still want the harmful behavior to stop.

 

How to persuade people to stop cheating, yet not harm them, is the challenge. After all, the food stamp cheat's child still needs to eat. S/he still needs to eat. What do we do? Very frustrating.

 

Worst of all, the red tape set in place to prevent cheating makes it complicated for honest applicants to get the help they need. Grrrr!

 

:iagree: It's very complicated. You want to make sure those that need the aid receive it. But that sense of entitlement is hard to overcome. If only we could go back to the days when we produced our own food!:001_smile:

[Cheryl in NM]

duplicate post, sorry!

[TraceyS/FL]

But could someone who needs to stay home with special needs children do something like LiveOps or West@Home or ACDDIRECT and just work a couple hours when the kids are sleeping? A LOT of parents (and homeschooelers) work late night or early morning, the times you'd make more money on this kind of job anyway.

 

I'm hoping so.....

[SeekingSimplicity]

My point is that those recipes should be saved until the fs recipient is better off financially and can afford those ingredients. If I can't afford them without government assistance why in the world should the government pay for them for those on assistance?

 

I understand your point.

 

It makes government assistance a temptation to those who are struggling to buy their own food, but can afford to. I believe food stamps should be a last resort. As in, "We won't eat at all without food stamps". When your way of life is no different on food stamps then why strive to become self sufficient again?

 

 

some of us have enough pride not to want to be on food stamps forever even if we had doritos and dr. pepper three times a day everyday.

 

 

This is just ridiculous. White bread might not be nutional sound but it not in the same category as chips, sodas and candy!

 

 

 

I don't see why. If the argument is that FS should only provide nutritionally sound food, and we can agree white bread is not, then why should FS buy it? Or bleached flour, or sugar, or any highly processed foods.

 

 

Actually, vegetarians have to work very hard to stay as healthy as those who eat lean, healthy meats. Humans NEED meat protein. We were made to eat it, but that's a whole different discussion.

 

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

 

On the other hand I wasn't being extreme in any of my comments. Of course, the regulations would have to make sense. As with all government regulation it could get out of hand easily.

 

 

Sorry if I offended you, my intent was only to point out that it could get out of hand and that what is reasonable may be subjective.

 

 

That's why I was asking, I don't know much about insulin dependent diabetes. I would just keep a few snacks in my purse at all times. His life depends on it.

 

 

Yes, but if I have no money, and I can't buy snacks with FS, then where do I get the snacks to put in my purse?