unsinkable Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 One person died. :-( http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/04/21/botulism-lancaster.html "One person has died and at least 20 others were hospitalized as of late last night with suspected botulism that health officials are linking to a potluck on Sunday at a Lancaster church." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 That's terrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Wow, can you imagine finding out it was your dish that caused this? How horrible! 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewe Mama Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Kate Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Oh my! How terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Wow, that's awful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 My hubby thinks I'm crazy for refusing to eat potluck meals. I think I'll show him the article. That's so terrible! I've always been paranoid about safe food prep when I'm eating food made by others. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 That is so awful. I feel so bad for everyone, including the poor person who made the food. Imagine having that knowledge. I wonder if they can ever even know for sure which food it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Our church has a potluck on Sunday. We never stay for them.We're weird about eating anonymously prepared food and by the time we wait to fill our plates and sit, we could be at home, have eaten and started on the dishes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 :( We don't have a lot of potlucks at our church--mostly cookouts or catered meals--but now I'll be thinking of this if/when we do. I really never thought of the possibility of food poisoning from a potluck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 When Hoarders was on the air and I saw how many of them insisted they were great cooks, while surrounded by rotting food and bugs and critters, I lost my appetite for potluck dishes. Unless you've been to someone's home (or even if you have been and it seems clean) you just don't know. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenn- Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Wasn't it from the recalled ice cream? That's listeria. I hope everyone else is able to recover from this. This doesn't mean the person lives in bad conditions or has bad food handling. She/he may not have realized one of her/his canned veggies didn't have a perfect seal. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I read the article and learned something new...I knew about the risks with canned foods, honey for infants, and even the garlic-infused oils, but I didn't know that baked potatoes wrapped in foil could be a problem! Here's the same info from the CDC website: http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/botulism/#prevent 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Our church holds potlucks on a regular basis. I'm picky anyway, so I bypass a lot of the offerings, but there are certain people's dishes I will seek out because I know they are good cooks with a clean/safe kitchen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I read the article and learned something new...I knew about the risks with canned foods, honey for infants, and even the garlic-infused oils, but I didn't know that baked potatoes wrapped in foil could be a problem! Here's the same info from the CDC website: http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/botulism/#prevent I don't understand the advice to boil home canned food. I've always heard that botulinum spores can't be destroyed by boiling, hence the reason to can low-acid foods under pressure. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I don't understand the advice to boil home canned food. I've always heard that botulinum spores can't be destroyed by boiling, hence the reason to can low-acid foods under pressure. The spores aren't destroyed by boiling, so if you boil it and then wait a while and then eat it, they will produce more toxins. But the toxins themselves are destroyed by boiling, so if you boil it and then eat it immediately, it will be safe because the spores have not had time to produce more toxins. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 When Hoarders was on the air and I saw how many of them insisted they were great cooks, while surrounded by rotting food and bugs and critters, I lost my appetite for potluck dishes. Unless you've been to someone's home (or even if you have been and it seems clean) you just don't know. Amen. There are some folks I love but would not eat anything prepared in their kitchens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I read the article and learned something new...I knew about the risks with canned foods, honey for infants, and even the garlic-infused oils, but I didn't know that baked potatoes wrapped in foil could be a problem! Here's the same info from the CDC website: http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/botulism/#prevent If you google "potatoes foil botulism" you will get dozens of hits. Seems like a decade or so ago there was a large restaurant chain that dealt with a case of botulism from foil wrappers taters. Applebee's maybe? Anyway, they stopped wrapping their spuds in foil. I think the main problem is when something is cooked, cooled and then reheated with the foil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pehp Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Oh this is horrendous. That poor person who brought the food!! And of course how awful to lose a loved one to this. I am rethinking my laid-back stance on potlucks (we have one every month at church) now. I have never thought twice about them. YIKES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El... Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Wow! I had no idea about the potatoes. I learn something on these boards every day. What a horrible thing about the potluck, though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiara.I Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Okay, it is scary. But....if you add up all the potlucks that happen every year, and look at all the cases of food poisoning from them...statistically, how bad is it? It seems bad because we're hearing about it, but that's my concern with the news, that it makes horror seem much more prevalent than it is. I wonder if the chance of food poisoning at a potluck is statistically higher or lower than getting struck by lightening? Or getting in a car accident? 37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara in Colo Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I love potlucks- my best "camp" experience was a church camp in Texas where the ladies made the lunches and dinners, potluck style every day for a week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Okay, it is scary. But....if you add up all the potlucks that happen every year, and look at all the cases of food poisoning from them...statistically, how bad is it? It seems bad because we're hearing about it, but that's my concern with the news, that it makes horror seem much more prevalent than it is. I wonder if the chance of food poisoning at a potluck is statistically higher or lower than getting struck by lightening? Or getting in a car accident? Well, also, when food poisoning strikes at a potluck it tends to strike lots of people, as opposed to lightning, so it seems scarier. It won't stop me from eating at potlucks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Okay, it is scary. But....if you add up all the potlucks that happen every year, and look at all the cases of food poisoning from them...statistically, how bad is it? It seems bad because we're hearing about it, but that's my concern with the news, that it makes horror seem much more prevalent than it is. I wonder if the chance of food poisoning at a potluck is statistically higher or lower than getting struck by lightening? Or getting in a car accident? When I start seriously adjusting my life due to fears from something like this I think I will have already died (more or less). There's no way I'm willing to live in fear - esp such small odds fears. If I were to be fearful of more major odds, I'd never go anywhere in a vehicle. It is sad though, and I feel for the person who brought the dish and those who were affected by it (and their families/loved ones), but it could have happened anywhere - yet almost always doesn't. I've found food at pot luck dinners to be incredibly tasty. I doubt that will change. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 ...it reminds me of a wedding a friend attended. 63 of 70 got food poisoning. From....hollandaise. Left unrefrigerated. For hours. Illnesses ranged from week long hospitalizations to ER treatments to (simply) vomiting for a day or so. The worst were a pregnant woman and an elderly woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Home canned tomatoes. I think those are a possible common source of botulism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 ...it reminds me of a wedding a friend attended. 63 of 70 got food poisoning. From....hollandaise. Left unrefrigerated. For hours. Illnesses ranged from week long hospitalizations to ER treatments to (simply) vomiting for a day or so. The worst were a pregnant woman and an elderly woman. How horrible. :( I hope everyone recovered, in that case. We deal with food allergies, so potlucks aren't an option for us. I do think, for the most part, they are safe. How very tragic when they are not, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Home canned tomatoes. I think those are a possible common source of botulism. The CDC information said low acid foods and didn't list tomatoes which are high acid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Home canned tomatoes are among the safest foods because of the acid. As are jellies, jams, pickles. You can "can" them with a water bath (not a pressure cooker). Beans, corn, potatoes, and meat products are more scary. However, I wouldn't be certain that it was home canned goods (unless that's been proven in this case). There are very few cases of that so I understand. I've eaten it all my life and the few times it's been bad, or a seal has popped, there is no question that it was bad, no one would ever eat it. Botulism is different. The reason to pressure can some things is that the pressure raises the temperature above boiling, which is necessary to kill botulism. Ordinary boilng does not kill botulism. It does kill many other things of course. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.Ivy Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I have heard that baked potatoes sitting out at room temp can be a source of botulism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/04/22/Updated-botulism-cases.html Here's another article with some new info. It mentions officials are searching through the church's garbage and people's food at home to help identify the source. It said they have a list of 20 dishes at the potluck. It also mentions the woman who died had underlying health issues and that the anti-toxin probably would not have helped her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Home canned tomatoes are among the safest foods because of the acid. ​No. It is critical for people to know that commercially grown tomatoes and peppers are much lower in acid than traditional tomatoes, and for this reason besides that, all tomatoes are borderline, it is not safe to can them at home without a pressure canner or adding acid. https://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/assets/preservation/UWEX_addacidtomatoes.pdf The tl;dr here is that tomatoes are a fruit; are not consistently high acid throughout the season; commercial tomatoes are lower in acid. Sorry for the big letters. Botulism is deadly and many of us can tomatoes. I think it's worth "shouting" so people can know this. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 ​No. It is critical for people to know that commercially grown tomatoes and peppers are much lower in acid than traditional tomatoes, and for this reason, it is not safe to can them at home without a pressure canner or adding acid. https://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/assets/preservation/UWEX_addacidtomatoes.pdf The tl;dr here is that tomatoes are a fruit; are not consistently high acid throughout the season; commercial tomatoes are lower in acid. Sorry for the big letters. Botulism is deadly and many of us can tomatoes. I think it's worth "shouting" so people can know this. I'm glad you gave a 'shout out'. I was scrolling to the bottom of the page to post this as well. You beat me to it. But I will second your 'shout'! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 The CDC information said low acid foods and didn't list tomatoes which are high acid. Actually tomatoes are not high acid. I can mine in a pressure canner because of this, and add lemon juice in the required amounts. "Tomatoes and tomato products need to be acidified for home canning. A common misconception is that tomatoes are a high acid food. With a pH of 4.6 tomatoes are right on the border between being high or low acid. The tomato variety and growing conditions (blight and diseased plants) can easily tip the acidity level to the low acid side of the scale." http://extension.psu.edu/food/preservation/news/2012/acidify-tomatoes-before-canning 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 ​No. It is critical for people to know that commercially grown tomatoes and peppers are much lower in acid than traditional tomatoes, and for this reason, it is not safe to can them at home without a pressure canner or adding acid. https://www.foodsafety.wisc.edu/assets/preservation/UWEX_addacidtomatoes.pdf The tl;dr here is that tomatoes are a fruit; are not consistently high acid throughout the season; commercial tomatoes are lower in acid. Sorry for the big letters. Botulism is deadly and many of us can tomatoes. I think it's worth "shouting" so people can know this. This doesn't pertain to home grown tomatoes thought does it? Just wondering. I once did can home grown tomatoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 This doesn't pertain to home grown tomatoes thought does it? Just wondering. I once did can home grown tomatoes. It applies to homegrown tomatoes, too. I don't have a link, but I did research this thoroughly before I canned my homegrown tomatoes last year. I wondered about tomatoes grown with heirloom seeds, and found this: "Other misconceptions are that yellow tomatoes are lower in acid than red tomatoes and that heirloom tomatoes are high in acid. Both are still borderline. Yellow tomatoes taste less acid because they contain more natural sugars." http://extension.psu.edu/food/preservation/news/2012/acidify-tomatoes-before-canning 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 It applies to homegrown tomatoes, too. I don't have a link, but I did research this thoroughly before I canned my homegrown tomatoes last year. I wondered about tomatoes grown with heirloom seeds, and found this: "Other misconceptions are that yellow tomatoes are lower in acid than red tomatoes and that heirloom tomatoes are high in acid. Both are still borderline. Yellow tomatoes taste less acid because they contain more natural sugars." http://extension.psu.edu/food/preservation/news/2012/acidify-tomatoes-before-canning ah ok Well I did it once many years ago and honestly I could not enjoy the tomatoes because I was too worried about it. So I didn't do it again. Well accept I once did can batches of green tomato relish which I am confident had plenty of acid in it. Canning is such a pain anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Canning is such a pain anyway. Yeah, it is a lot of work. The only reason I'm going to go through it again this year (my second season) is that the difference between home-canned and store bought tomatoes is extreme. My home-canned ones have a very intense flavor and color in comparison. Plus, I am a glutton for punishment. And I bought all the equipment, can't let it go to waste. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Are we the only ones who choose to freeze tomatoes (after blanching) rather than canning them? It is so much easier and they work just as well in recipes. I'm also thinking since they are always exposed to some sort of oxygen that botulism wouldn't be a worry? Correct me if I'm wrong on that, of course. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I add lemon juice to my tomatoes to can them safely. I think I found that tip on the USDA site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 This doesn't pertain to home grown tomatoes thought does it? Just wondering. I once did can home grown tomatoes. It's the variety that does it, and also, it's not regular throughout the season. I don't understand why not just add some acid. Botulism isn't worth it. Or, as creekland pointed out, just freeze it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali in OR Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 If you follow Ball Blue Book recipes when canning, they have you add lemon juice and your canned tomatoes are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Botulism comes from the soil. The risk of botulism goes down a lot if you wash your produce thoroughly and process it (according to safe guidelines) as soon as possible--preferably the same day. You should also not can produce that is starting to rot. I am a lot more fussy about which tomatoes I can now that I know about that information! I don't put rotten pieces in my batch, but I am less likely to just casually lop off a rotten spot and toss the tomato (or other veggie) into my batch to be canned. I am fussier about bruised apples as well. It's easy when you have a bushel of pears or apples to just do a quick plunge in the water, peel them, etc., but I clean my fruit much more thoroughly now--usually a thorough rinse to get most of the yuck off and then a vinegar and water bath to get the rest of the yuck off. People also need to be sure to let the pressure canner vent with a steam cloud for the appropriate amount of time before putting on the weighted gauge and starting the timer. Venting the steam brings the pressure up, and it's the pressure that brings the temperature high enough to kill the spores. If the heat is unsteady or not enough to make a steam cloud, the pressure will not get high enough to bring the temperature to it's necessary high point. If it's venting air, but not steam, you need to turn up the heat and/or vent longer until the steam escapes for the directed amount of time. I do know people sometimes skip or fudge this step. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I feel both for the family of the victim and for whoever prepared the food. I'm sure that whoever it was knows it was them by now: if 20+ people got sick at a potluck for 60 people total, that probably narrows down what the source was. Generally, when I bring food for a potluck, I'm not bringing 20+ servings of anything, unless it is something like chips and salsa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Are we the only ones who choose to freeze tomatoes (after blanching) rather than canning them? It is so much easier and they work just as well in recipes I used to do that, until the canning bug bit me. In the middle of the seemingly never-ending supply of tomatoes to can, I wonder many times why I didn't stick to freezing them. My biggest problem now is that I love looking at all those lovely filled jars, lined up on shelves ... so picturesque, and concrete evidence of my hard work gardening and canning. Then I have to use them up, and it's a little bit sad, using up what took so long to create. This year, I'm going to take a photo and hope that satisfies me, so I don't give in to the temptation of being a home-canned goods hoarder. :-) 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Are we the only ones who choose to freeze tomatoes (after blanching) rather than canning them? It is so much easier and they work just as well in recipes. I'm also thinking since they are always exposed to some sort of oxygen that botulism wouldn't be a worry? Correct me if I'm wrong on that, of course. I freeze everything now too. I don't know the specifics of botulism except that it's still relatively rare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I freeze tomatoes too, as its easier for me than canning when it is only a small quantity .I am down to the last 2 , I am hoping tonight will be last feeze so I can start next years crop. It's currently snowing here. Not serious snow that will amount to anything, but what the heck. I'm done with winter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 It's currently snowing here. Not serious snow that will amount to anything, but what the heck. I'm done with winter! Keep it. We no longer want any. ;) Our new tomato plants (and other warm crops) won't go in until mid May. Fortunately, my farm hands return from college in mid-May. :coolgleamA: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 ...it reminds me of a wedding a friend attended. 63 of 70 got food poisoning. From....hollandaise. Left unrefrigerated. For hours. Illnesses ranged from week long hospitalizations to ER treatments to (simply) vomiting for a day or so. The worst were a pregnant woman and an elderly woman. I just experience food poisoning from he!!. I experienced the worst pain ever in my life for hours and hours and hours as well as several other unpleasantries. Then on top of that I had multiple other attacks of pain and such over the course of several weeks related to complications from food poisoning of lactose intolerance and possible colitis. Let's just say I will be very careful from now on. ETA: sorry about typos and clarified that the pain was for quite an extended period of time from 5 to 12 hours for each attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I just experience food poisoning from he!!. I experienced the worst pain ever in my life for hours as well as several other unpleasantries. Then on top of that I had multiple other attacks of pain and such over the curse of several weeks related to complications of lactose intolerance and possible colitis. Let's just say I will be very careful from now on. What did you get it from? The only time I know for certain that a couple of family members had it we got it from meat sliced for us at a deli at a food processor's outlet store. It was quite easy to know exactly which food it was because the only ones affected were those who ate that meat in their sandwiches and they had the exact same symptoms at the exact same time afterward (within 30 minutes anyway) - the rest of the meal was identical. We tossed the rest. In my current life I'd have reported it, but at the time, my oldest had a job there (in the factory, not the outlet store) and didn't want to jeopardize his job. It seems like such stupid reasoning now. Fortunately, it wasn't food poisoning from he!!. It was just the puke a couple of times and be done with it variety. We've never eaten anything from there again though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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