.

[Murphy101]

I do think it’s important to be up front and honest to TPTB at church. They don’t know what they don’t know. And what we take for granted people should just get, they often just don’t get at all. Communication is hard.

Also. Don’t beat around the bush. Priests hear everything in those confessionals.  Tell him bluntly. Your children are SCARED and they need church to be a safe haven for them.  How can the staff and priest help with that? At the least, they can not discuss you or your kids with others. 

[Murphy101]

29 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I don't think he sees it as gossiping.

When my middle kid was in ICU out of state, and DH and I didn't get home to our other boys for almost 7 weeks, our priest reached out every few days.  He let us initiate phone calls, but he sent regular texts that might have been a photo of our kids playing at recess or in a CYO game, or a note that the choir sounded really good, and he could tell that oldest loved to sing, or "I know they miss you but I can tell their grandfather is taking good care of them" or something.  
 

Yeah I don’t think that’s gossiping either. A family friend (who happens to be a priest) is sharing good reassurances about my kids with me. (In this case both parents)

29 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

He hears, for the most part, one side, because he's DH's confidant and confessor which makes him not mine.  I think he thinks I have overreacted, and hopes we'll reconcile, and in the meantime he's sending reassurances to their Dad that they are growing and attending church. 

NO.  Just. NO. He has crossed the line no matter what he thinks. He needs to be told so.  

Do you have any church friend who will go with you to talk about it?  Even if they don’t say anything, just to be there for you?

It sounds like he was a close family friend and has taken your xDh side? What a bad decision as a friend and a priest of either of you. 🥺

29 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I'm sure he texts when the boys come to his church, telling their Dad that they've grown, or that they were polite when they greeted him after, or whatever.  I think he means it as a kindness.  And if he left out information about whether I attended too, and if DH didn't mention it to the boys,  I could live with that.  But there is this constant need for DH to know where I am, and who I am with, and what I am up to, that is really unhealthy and intrusive.  

That’s totally crossing the line. As a priest and a friend, the greater concern should be to ask your xDh how he is doing. Not to tell him about you and/or the kids. That’s not okay. That’s very much crossing the line. Idk. This sounds like a maybe scout another parish situation to me. 

29 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I take my marriage vows seriously.  I am not going to break them.  But he needs to trust me to do that, because what I do with my time is my business.  He has lost the right to monitor that.  It happens that this day I was home with a sleepy child, but if I chose to go visit my mom, or to attend a work conference, or if I was sick and contagious and decided not to attend that would be my choice as well.  Because we are separated, which means separate. 

Even if you were still married and living together - there may be times when you don’t attend or partake for spiritual reasons and it is not anyone’s business.  Not even your husband. That’s confessional stuff.

Edited January 24 by Murphy101

[Drama Llama]

40 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

NO.  Just. NO. He has crossed the line no matter what he thinks. He needs to be told so.  

 

Who is he, the priest or DH?

[Murphy101]

48 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

Who is he, the priest or DH?

Both.  The Xh shouldn’t be asking the priest to spy for him. The priest shouldn’t be keeping the xh updated. Sharing info about the kids with both of you as a family friend when you are married? That’s okay. Keeping your x updated while shaming you for not staying with him and making the kids scared is not okay. Not as a friend. Not as a priest.  If you have informed the priest of the full scope of this situation and trauma to the kids - then he should not be doing this regardless of if he agrees with you or not.  If you have not informed the priest, then maybe give the benefit of ignorance and inform him.

Edited January 24 by Murphy101

[katilac]

6 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

 I take my marriage vows seriously.  I am not going to break them.  B 

Why, if you no longer believe? You can be serious about your marriage vows - that is, not take them lightly - and still decide that abuse has been so prevalent and trust so irrevocably broken that he has broken the marriage as well. There's no reason to stay technically married. 

If you don't have a formal health care proxy, I'd jump on that. Your dh isn't likely to tell the hospital you're separated if you're unable to make your own medical decisions, and that's who'll they default to asking for guidance. 

It would also give me the ick for him to be able to tell people he's my husband. 

[Drama Llama]

3 hours ago, katilac said:

Why, if you no longer believe? You can be serious about your marriage vows - that is, not take them lightly - and still decide that abuse has been so prevalent and trust so irrevocably broken that he has broken the marriage as well. There's no reason to stay technically married. 

If you don't have a formal health care proxy, I'd jump on that. Your dh isn't likely to tell the hospital you're separated if you're unable to make your own medical decisions, and that's who'll they default to asking for guidance. 

It would also give me the ick for him to be able to tell people he's my husband. 

He is my husband.  He can tell people that.  I tell people he is my husband.  That’s not ick.  It’s fact.

I realize I could get divorced.  I don’t plan to do that.  

[Katy]

I would go talk to the priest, thank him for helping DH, and explain your safety concerns and ask him not to discuss you in his texts. If he argues at all, complain above his head. 

But I still suspect it was SIL stirring up trouble. She wants drama, not the moral high ground.

[Faith-manor]

Llama, I do agree you need to have advance directives, and all of your providers need to be informed that he does not have permission to make your medical decisions if you are incapacitated nor is entitled to any information about you, and for that matter, also for the kids in the event you are not able or close by to make decisions for them. This is serious, and scary. He could use that power as the legal husband to do terrible things. Doctors would not be able to stop him because he is the legal next of kin unless there are legal documents that expressly take that right away from him.

Please protect yourself and your children in this regard if you already have not. Hopefully, your lawyer already thought of that and has those ducks in a nice, neat row.

[Murphy101]

3 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

He is my husband.  He can tell people that.  I tell people he is my husband.  That’s not ick.  It’s fact.

I realize I could get divorced.  I don’t plan to do that.  

I get that. (((Hugs)))

For some people that vow is not just about their marriage. It’s personal as an individual too. Just bc the other party broke things, doesn’t mean you are obligated to break things on your end.  

I do agree with others though that you should take all the steps to remove him from your legal decision making.  Medical and banking and otherwise. I know a few people who have made a card for their wallet saying they are legally separated and their spouse should not be contacted or given decision making ability, and who to call instead. Make sure you give a copy to all your drs and to those you want to have decision making abilities.

 

[kbutton]

11 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I get that. (((Hugs)))

For some people that vow is not just about their marriage. It’s personal as an individual too. Just bc the other party broke things, doesn’t mean you are obligated to break things on your end.  

I do agree with others though that you should take all the steps to remove him from your legal decision making.  Medical and banking and otherwise. I know a few people who have made a card for their wallet saying they are legally separated and their spouse should not be contacted or given decision making ability, and who to call instead. Make sure you give a copy to all your drs and to those you want to have decision making abilities.

 

Sometimes you can upload legal documents to your electronic medical record too. I would still carry a card, but having the legal documents accessible in the medical record is really good.

[gardenmom5]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:27 PM, Drama Llama said:

 

Someone, maybe his sister, or maybe the priest, or maybe a neighborhood friend, must have reached out to him, because today, during their virtual visitation, DH asked my boys why I didn't go to church with them. At that point, my youngest froze, my oldest cussed him out, and I ended the call.  

How can he possibly think that was a good idea?  I don't mean the spying, although obviously I would love it if he stopped that, but if his goals are to rebuild his relationship with the boys, and for them to grow up with Catholic (something he has always said was important to him) how does this support those goals?  From where I sit, it seems like a guaranteed way to push my oldest away from the church.  

 

a couple things . . the motivation for that could range from "spying" (did he ask those people?  or did they seek him out to tell him?)  - but it could also have been innocent curiosity.
 innocent curiosity is just: the truth.
if you really think it was malicious intent, just as "mom is handling it in a way that works for the kids.  it's fine".  give him the reassurance.

 I'd personally, want to know what it is about being catholic that is important to him.  why does he want his children to be catholic.  That is a far more involved answer than he may have ever given thought to.   I know a lot of religious (of multiple religions) parents that really can't answer it on a deeper, meaningful, level. (those are the parents who frequently end up coercing their children to participate in their religion of choice.)

[bolt.]

Lots of "Christian-raised" tweens, teens, and young adults go through times of having a Christian faith, and being distant or rejecting that faith. That's a really normal part of faith development and human development. It's also really normal for adults to take up faith or put it down at any point in their lives.

As parents we need to recognize that we are not in the driver's seat of their faith choices, and instead ask ourselves questions about things that are within our sphere of control.

Questions that are within our control: What opportunities are we offering them? What are we choosing to model or not model? What things do we simply make part of the 'normal way we do things'? When and how do we decide which things are worth applying a little pressure? Which, if any, circumstances call for more than a little pressure?

The outcomes in terms of choosing faith or not choosing faith, and the various phases of those outcomes, are not in our control. We can totally release that.

How other people in our kids' lives try to influence their faith life (wisely or unwisely!) is also outside of our control. We can release that too.

The things that do depend on us aren't very simple to answer, but limiting the scope of our focus to just those things can be helpful. We don't need to play "what if" games and try to predict the future. We just need to determine what we think we are responsible for in the present.

[Drama Llama]

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

 innocent curiosity is just: the truth.

if you really think it was malicious intent, just as "mom is handling it in a way that works for the kids.  it's fine".  give him the reassurance.
 

I don't understand what you are saying here.  It sounds like you are defending him, and saying he should be allowed to keep track of where I go and what I do, and grill my kids about my behavior, and that when he does I should be nice and reassuring?  

[Drama Llama]

4 hours ago, bolt. said:

Lots of "Christian-raised" tweens, teens, and young adults go through times of having a Christian faith, and being distant or rejecting that faith. That's a really normal part of faith development and human development. It's also really normal for adults to take up faith or put it down at any point in their lives.

As parents we need to recognize that we are not in the driver's seat of their faith choices, and instead ask ourselves questions about things that are within our sphere of control.

Questions that are within our control: What opportunities are we offering them? What are we choosing to model or not model? What things do we simply make part of the 'normal way we do things'? When and how do we decide which things are worth applying a little pressure? Which, if any, circumstances call for more than a little pressure?

The outcomes in terms of choosing faith or not choosing faith, and the various phases of those outcomes, are not in our control. We can totally release that.

How other people in our kids' lives try to influence their faith life (wisely or unwisely!) is also outside of our control. We can release that too.

The things that do depend on us aren't very simple to answer, but limiting the scope of our focus to just those things can be helpful. We don't need to play "what if" games and try to predict the future. We just need to determine what we think we are responsible for in the present.

I'm not really sure how this connects with my situation.  I know that what religion someone grows up to be is not within parental control, but I do think that connecting church attendance with intrusion, control, and conflict is not going to increase the likelihood that the kid continues to attend.

I can't "release" abusive behavior towards my minor children, from someone who has hurt them in the past.  Protecting my children is literally my most important job.  

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, Drama Llama said:

I can't "release" abusive behavior towards my minor children, from someone who has hurt them in the past.  Protecting my children is literally my most important job.  

Damaged is a more accurate descriptor, I think. If only it was "just" hurt, eh?

You are in a supremely stupid situation and no one should be making it worse, however lovely their intentions. I will rejoice with you when your youngest turns 18 and you are released from what is effectively court ordered bondage.

[fairfarmhand]

13 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I'm not really sure how this connects with my situation.  I know that what religion someone grows up to be is not within parental control, but I do think that connecting church attendance with intrusion, control, and conflict is not going to increase the likelihood that the kid continues to attend.

I can't "release" abusive behavior towards my minor children, from someone who has hurt them in the past.  Protecting my children is literally my most important job.  

What understand you as saying is that you don’t want your ds to leave a place/atmosphere/religious tradition that he has always loved and found comfort from because he finds it so connected with someone who’s traumatized him. It’s like you don’t mind if he leaves because of other reasons that he’s logically considered but not because of trauma because he’s lost enough in that department.

 

 

 

[Innisfree]

10 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Damaged is a more accurate descriptor, I think. If only it was "just" hurt, eh?

You are in a supremely stupid situation and no one should be making it worse, however lovely their intentions. I will rejoice with you when your youngest turns 18 and you are released from what is effectively court ordered bondage.

This.

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

What understand you as saying is that you don’t want your ds to leave a place/atmosphere/religious tradition that he has always loved and found comfort from because he finds it so connected with someone who’s traumatized him. It’s like you don’t mind if he leaves because of other reasons that he’s logically considered but not because of trauma because he’s lost enough in that department.

Yes basically.

They already connect church with Dad.  Because they attended with Dad for years, and many of the memories a wonderful memories.  But, I don't want an association between going to church and feeling spied on, or going to church and feeling controlled, or going to church and feeling fear that it will lead to more abuse.  

I don't care if they freely choose a different religious path, but free is the operative word there.  If you choose something because you're running from something else, that's not a free choice. 

[scholastica]

8 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

Yes basically.

They already connect church with Dad.  Because they attended with Dad for years, and many of the memories a wonderful memories.  But, I don't want an association between going to church and feeling spied on, or going to church and feeling controlled, or going to church and feeling fear that it will lead to more abuse.  

I don't care if they freely choose a different religious path, but free is the operative word there.  If you choose something because you're running from something else, that's not a free choice. 

Hugs to you. You are incredibly strong and clearheaded. 

[KungFuPanda]

What if you forget about your traditions and your marriage vows and you try to imagine your boys 5-10 years from now?  What can you do today that’s healthier for them in the long run and how can you prioritized that when you make decisions.   Try not to fear change. Life will ALWAYS change. Try to make each decision with your boys’ long term mental health in mind. It’ll be best for them and preserve your relationship when they’re adults.  
 

If you can’t change churches cold turkey, can you attend mass at another location most of the time but visit your original parish only occasionally? What if your kids gradually shift any youth activities or religious ed classes to another church? You really have to make these divisions based upon who everyone is today and will be tomorrow. The family you used to be in the past can’t really come into play. Nobody is moving backwards. 

[gardenmom5]

38 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I don't understand what you are saying here.  It sounds like you are defending him, and saying he should be allowed to keep track of where I go and what I do, and grill my kids about my behavior, and that when he does I should be nice and reassuring?  

No - I'm not defending him.

I'm asking - was the question based in "spying"? (I don't know how hostile he was). and a good question who told him?  did he ask or did they volunteer the information?  (and frankly - if *the priest* told him - even if asked, he needs to be pulled aside and informed he was out of line. Either by your or his superior.)

For some people - that would be an innocuous question.  For others . . . not so much . . . . and then others . . .shields up.  I don't know which this is, so I *was asking*.

If him asking about you is against your custody agreement to know where you are etc. - TELL HIM that that information is not subject to your custody agreement.  (and help your kids know how to respond when he asks them such questions.)
you're already attending a parish where he has connections, so he's going to hear about things whether you tell him or not.

my suggestion of questions for him of "why does he want his kids to be raised catholic" - is to maybe, just maybe, get him thinking on a higher level  of what it really means to him to be catholic, engage in some self-reflection of his own behavior, and maybe even -> to improve his own behavior.

My narcissist brother was here last night (yeah, I know. eyeroll).  I realized while some of his crap is . . (cough) . .  crap . . . some of it was my expectation of him engaging in crap. (but from anyone else wouldn't prompt a reaction)  
 

[Rosie_0801]

@KungFuPanda You might consider revising your post. You're coming across far harsher than I think you meant to.

[Drama Llama]

25 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

@KungFuPanda You might consider revising your post. You're coming across far harsher than I think you meant to.

No, I want to know what @KungFuPanda is trying to say, even if it's not what I want to hear.  

I think I do prioritize my kids mental health, but if she sees evidence I don't, I want to hear what that is so I can change. 

[Katy]

13 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

No, I want to know what @KungFuPanda is trying to say, even if it's not what I want to hear.  

I think I do prioritize my kids mental health, but if she sees evidence I don't, I want to hear what that is so I can change. 

No one who’s been paying any attention thinks there is any evidence you don’t. Not since you first showed up here years ago, asking how to help all your children adjust. 

[Drama Llama]

8 minutes ago, Katy said:

No one who’s been paying any attention thinks there is any evidence you don’t. Not since you first showed up here years ago, asking how to help all your children adjust. 

Thank you, but I want to understand all viewpoints.

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, Drama Llama said:

Thank you, but I want to understand all viewpoints.

Some viewpoints arise from a lack of experience, but no doubt you're experienced enough to know that.

[Drama Llama]

14 minutes ago, Katy said:

No one who’s been paying any attention thinks there is any evidence you don’t. Not since you first showed up here years ago, asking how to help all your children adjust. 

When I first came here, people thought I was an awful mother!

[prairiewindmomma]

One thing that would factor into my decision making, fwiw, is developing a support system outside of the one that existed when dh was part of your daily life.  I know I've beat upon that drum repeatedly in my posts through the years--the importance of you building a strong friend network outside of dh's family, the importance of the kids having friends and activities outside of the family sphere, etc. but I'm going to continue gently beating that drum.  I think dh's family of origin is so fundamentally dysfunctional that you need a strong foundation elsewhere outside of his family life. I mean, SIL moving into FIL's and Pop's house (and therefore making that house unsafe for you all) kind of underlines this point. I've lived the small, tight knit dysfunctional life---and having then moved cross country out of it---I really didn't fully understand how many ties were binding me down emotionally until I fully left it.  I thought I had a lot of the dysfunctionality separated from me, but it wasn't until we moved that I fully had to reckon with how long and how deeply we had dowsed our kids into really unhealthy waters. 

I trust that you know your kids and your circumstances much more deeply than you post here, and I think you've got a good sense of awareness about this.....but I haven't seen you posting here about building a life outside of dh's family of origin. I hope that's happening behind the scenes. If church in your old location = exposing more to family dysfunctionality, that would make me pause a bit. You've already got more of that going on in other circles of your life just because you're closer---it would make me, personally, want to keep church life separate.

All of that said, I can't advise you what to do---and I think whatever you choose will be well thought out and considered---just sharing my tidbit from my own life experiences.  It was only after we moved away and after we left church and some time even thereafter where my kids got some perspective that we really began to reckon with the damage that happened. Kids don't know what they don't know, iykwim.

[dirty ethel rackham]

3 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

When I first came here, people thought I was an awful mother!

I didn't.  I saw someone who was trying with every ounce of her being to be a good mother.  I thought you were pretty wound up (and I identified with that as I wanted more than anything to be a good mother.)  But as you have shared more of your life, I see that you have been striving under some really difficult circumstances.  

[KungFuPanda]

25 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

No, I want to know what @KungFuPanda is trying to say, even if it's not what I want to hear.  

I think I do prioritize my kids mental health, but if she sees evidence I don't, I want to hear what that is so I can change. 

Oh gosh. I’m sorry I sounded harsh. I meant to sound like I’m passionately rooting for you because all you do is work and worry and mother your boys. There’s no doubt about that. I just wanted to stress that it’s okay, moral even, to prioritize reducing stress in YOUR house because you and your boys deserve to breathe easy for a bit. It’s okay to make the husband, husband’s family, priest, etc a low low priority. I don’t think you have a selfish bone in your body but I think it would be healthy for you to BE a little selfish when it comes to having peace in your home and modeling some self care. I want you to be able to skip church for any reason and not have anyone hassle you about it. I’m a bit angry on your behalf about all the snitching. 

[Katy]

31 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

When I first came here, people thought I was an awful mother!

I don’t think so. I vaguely remember being confused by something, but I don’t think anyone thought you were bad. Just not sharing enough information for us to clearly understand what the situation was. 

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

I don’t think so. I vaguely remember being confused by something, but I don’t think anyone thought you were bad. Just not sharing enough information for us to clearly understand what the situation was. 

Someone told me that my child's PTSD was probably caused, not by the enormous medical trauma, not by losing 3 parents before his 9th birthday, but by my parenting, specifically because I bought him the wrong kind of iPad, and thus revealed my disdain for him, or something like that. 

I'm not saying everyone thought that, but some people certainly did.  

[Drama Llama]

34 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

One thing that would factor into my decision making, fwiw, is developing a support system outside of the one that existed when dh was part of your daily life.  I know I've beat upon that drum repeatedly in my posts through the years--the importance of you building a strong friend network outside of dh's family, the importance of the kids having friends and activities outside of the family sphere, etc. but I'm going to continue gently beating that drum.  I think dh's family of origin is so fundamentally dysfunctional that you need a strong foundation elsewhere outside of his family life. I mean, SIL moving into FIL's and Pop's house (and therefore making that house unsafe for you all) kind of underlines this point. I've lived the small, tight knit dysfunctional life---and having then moved cross country out of it---I really didn't fully understand how many ties were binding me down emotionally until I fully left it.  I thought I had a lot of the dysfunctionality separated from me, but it wasn't until we moved that I fully had to reckon with how long and how deeply we had dowsed our kids into really unhealthy waters. 

I trust that you know your kids and your circumstances much more deeply than you post here, and I think you've got a good sense of awareness about this.....but I haven't seen you posting here about building a life outside of dh's family of origin. I hope that's happening behind the scenes. If church in your old location = exposing more to family dysfunctionality, that would make me pause a bit. You've already got more of that going on in other circles of your life just because you're closer---it would make me, personally, want to keep church life separate.

All of that said, I can't advise you what to do---and I think whatever you choose will be well thought out and considered---just sharing my tidbit from my own life experiences.  It was only after we moved away and after we left church and some time even thereafter where my kids got some perspective that we really began to reckon with the damage that happened. Kids don't know what they don't know, iykwim.

I don't know how to do that.  It's not like I haven''t tried to make friends.  I'm just really bad at it.  

I can't move.  For very complicated, very real reasons, I am tied to this area.  

Not all of DH's family is dysfunctional.  

[Terabith]

A few nutsy members of the hive are not really representative of the board as a whole's feelings.  Some people are nuts and judgey.  They just are.  

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

A few nutsy members of the hive are not really representative of the board as a whole's feelings.  Some people are nuts and judgey.  They just are.  

I didn't say all the people thought that.  

[prairiewindmomma]

4 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I don't know how to do that.  It's not like I haven''t tried to make friends.  I'm just really bad at it.  

I can't move.  For very complicated, very real reasons, I am tied to this area.  

Not all of DH's family is dysfunctional.  

The individuals may not be dysfunctional, but the system is. You can't stand alone as an individual (or a series of individuals) in an unhealthy system  and not be touched by the system dynamics because you are connected to it.  I think that's the point I'm trying to make.  

I totally get that you can't move, and that you are bound by law and other things to stay in place. But I think that's why I would try to separate myself as much as I feasibly can: separate schools, separate churches, separate social times (at times).  You and your kids need more healthy emotional space and connections to balance out the sh!t you have to deal with.

I truly wish you the best, and I don't want to add to your burden with my opinions.

[Rosie_0801]

49 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I don't know how to do that.  It's not like I haven''t tried to make friends.  I'm just really bad at it.  

Most people do not have the skills for being friends with traumatised people. 

[YaelAldrich]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Most people do not have the skills for being friends with traumatised people. 

QFT. So much truth. 

[fairfarmhand]

3 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I don't know how to do that.  It's not like I haven''t tried to make friends.  I'm just really bad at it.  

I can't move.  For very complicated, very real reasons, I am tied to this area.  

Not all of DH's family is dysfunctional.  

I know. I have a good friend who has a very complicated life and history and friendship is one place where she struggles. And I told her one day “you know, you’re not that hard to love” and she was baffled. Trauma messes with ones ability to sustain healthy friendships and believe that one is capable of healthy relationships . I want you to know it too.  You're not that hard to love and you can find friends. You’re worthy.
 

 However, it is complicated and finding the right person who can handle it isn’t easy. But they do exist. And it’s worth looking for. 
 

Gentle encouragement while still understanding how hard and impossible it seems for you. 

[Terabith]

I think it's also very challenging to make close friends as an adult with teenagers, especially if you're busy with working and taking kids to a zillion sporting events and driving back and forth to school and attending concerts and medical appointments and the like.  Everyone is busy, and there aren't the La Leche League meetings and play groups where everyone hangs out that are more common when your kids are tiny.  Even without trauma, it's just a hard season of life to build a big support system.  

[Harriet Vane]

23 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I think it's also very challenging to make close friends as an adult with teenagers, especially if you're busy with working and taking kids to a zillion sporting events and driving back and forth to school and attending concerts and medical appointments and the like.  Everyone is busy, and there aren't the La Leche League meetings and play groups where everyone hangs out that are more common when your kids are tiny.  Even without trauma, it's just a hard season of life to build a big support system.  

So true.

[Drama Llama]

9 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Most people do not have the skills for being friends with traumatised people. 

I didn’t make friends easily before the trauma. 

[Katy]

46 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

I didn’t make friends easily before the trauma. 

No one does. I mean some people can make friendly acquaintances or admirers easily, but someone you can trust is a rare find no matter who you are, at least after puberty. 
 

ETA: And I’m so sorry about whoever said that about trauma. 

Edited January 25 by Katy

[Drama Llama]

38 minutes ago, Katy said:

No one does. I mean some people can make friendly acquaintances or admirers easily, but someone you can trust is a rare find no matter who you are, at least after puberty. 
 

ETA: And I’m so sorry about whoever said that about trauma. 

And yet, other people seem to have friends.  How does that happen? 

[Katy]

14 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

And yet, other people seem to have friends.  How does that happen? 

My closest friends are DH’s college friend group. He’s better at picking people than I am. Other friends I met through fostering and church. 

[maize]

9 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

And yet, other people seem to have friends.  How does that happen? 

Some do and some don't.  Honestly lots of people dont. I've only had a couple of friends as an adult. One died only a few months after we met, and one moved out of state after a couple of years.  I've had lots of friendly acquaintances. I call them friends but I'm not actually close to them.

I'm trying right now, I'm part of a book club that is a pretty neat group of women some of whom seem to have genuine friendships with each other and I think there is some potential there, but it's hard to actually break through that border between friendly acquaintances and someone I can actually share my deeper self with. I'm fortunate to have a sister who, although not local, is a good friend and someone I can talk to.

[regentrude]

47 minutes ago, Drama Llama said:

And yet, other people seem to have friends.  How does that happen? 

For one thing: having time to invest in friendship and spending time together. 

That's hard when one's in the active years of parenting, when one is working long hours, when most of free time is spent with family. ( Never mind the added complications of medical trauma and abusive relationships).

One reason college friendships endure so long is the huge amount of time one was able to spend together, studying and hanging out, getting to know one another really well. At middle age, it takes a lot more intentionality to make the time in a busy schedule and prioritize one's own friendships.

 

Edited January 25 by regentrude

[marbel]

I've had friends, and not had friends, at different times in my life. 

There are so many things that cause friendships to happen/not to happen. Or to stick. 

Being shy, I made no friends in college. It probably didn't help that I commuted from my parents' home and never got fully involved in campus life. My closest friendships when I was single/childless were with people I met at work. I mean, I had lots of "work friends" but some very close relationships grew out of that time.  Later, in a different state and when I had small children, I had close friends from various mom's and, later, homeschooling groups. 

Now, in yet another state... I had good friends (I thought) at church, but after some... issues... and having to leave, I find all those friends are gone.  And, having a hard time finding a new church, I am pretty much without local friends, even casual ones. Fortunately I have a good online friendship network. 

I am sorry you are going through all this. I've not commented because I don't have enough knowledge of your situation to give advice. Also I know you are under great constraints and can't necessarily do what even you think is best. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I need friends; I just don’t know where to look.  So much of adult socializing seems to be couples…I know plenty of people who get together for dinner, have game nights, small group church stuff, go axe throwing, etc, but they all do it as couples.

DH isn’t going to do any of that and does not like to have people over for dinner. Back in 2010-2013 we used to hold game nights and have dinners and such, go out to movies with couples and it was fun, but he will no longer do any of that and those friendships have long since faded.

[Faith-manor]

I have one friend. Just one. She moved 3 hours away so we see each other about once per quarter.

This thread is making me think we need some regional, WTM meet ups. Many of us are pretty lonely.