S/O Weaponized Incompetence

[marbel]

The term "weaponized incompetence" has been coming up lately, not just here but in other places. I've been thinking about it related to the various incompetencies in my life - my own, and others'. 

Basically the question is: how do you determine the difference between purposeful incompetence to avoid work/tasks/responsibilities and, well, "innocent" (for lack of a better word) incompetence? In particular, I'm thinking about people (but not only those people) with various issues: ADHD, EF issues, anxiety, depression, others - things that can affect a person's ability to do certain things, or do them right. 

I'm truly curious about this. I'll be honest at the start: I tend to believe that my people at least are doing their best, just as I am doing my best. But I'm not closed to the idea that some people may not be! 

Thoughts? 

[HomeAgain]

Attitude plays a part.  If someone is sour about doing something and then does it badly, I'm going to assume they're just making a passing "effort" to say they did it and leave it for someone else.

DS13 is trying really hard with this one. 😆 He is slowly realizing that doing something right the first time means I don't keep making him redo it. 

[BeachGal]

My MIL would boast about purposely messing up chores she had volunteered to do. With family, friends, charity groups. I mean, why volunteer? Just say no or don’t offer to help? She was like this with caring for children, too, so we rarely asked her to watch the kids because she was just not trustworthy and didn’t seem to like watching kids anyway. I always thought it was a form of passive aggressiveness or an inability to discuss or resolve differences.

My kids did not purposely do poor work with chores but for some, it took a long time to get it down. For one of them, this was not until he moved out on his own and he had to deal with it himself. lol

[Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

My MIL would boast about purposely messing up chores she had volunteered to do. With family, friends, charity groups. I mean, why volunteer? Just say no or don’t offer to help?

My MIL and some relatives behave that way. They want to claim credit for being helpful and give the excuse that “it is not they don’t want to help but the other party isn’t grateful (or equivalent)”.  Like babysitting, if MIL purposely feed her grandchildren something that her children already told her not to do, then she can whine to others that they are unappreciative of her helping to babysit (while conveniently leaving out the reason why). They want to look good.

[Grace Hopper]

My recent observations in the workforce have more to do with lack of job training provided. Coworkers are frustrated by those who ask too many questions about job procedures - so perhaps appearing incompetent - when the truth is that an insufficient level of task (process/software use, that sort of thing) training was provided in the first place. With short-staffing everywhere, new hires appear to get thrown in to sink or swim. 
 

I’m not sure if this properly applies to the conversation at hand, just commenting that there could be another reason someone appears incompetent, and they’re not trying to get out of doing work. 
 

Fwiw, yes I do also see some who half heartedly take on tasks hoping they won’t be asked to do it again. 
 

[Indigo Blue]

I don’t know….

Dh and I each have our own things we do. He works physical labor in all seasons, and he is not a spring chicken anymore. I work from home but am unable to mow the grass for him. We only have a push mower. I do my things and he does his things, and sometimes I need help. Say, if we are packing to go somewhere or the boys are coming to stay for a week, and I want the house/yard/bookkeeping all done so we can just enjoy their company. If he helps to do some of my things, he invariably asks questions or needs me to show him something simple that I think…surely you can figure that out….but I don’t know if it is truly weaponized incompetence. I don’t think so, but sometimes he just doesn’t like to do things that he doesn’t normally do. Not big things, really. Mostly little things. Like, if he needs to chop carrots, he wants to know which bowl to put them in or something. So I have to take out the bowl for him. He may not want to go to the trouble to find a bowl? Or he may genuinely be stressing over a minor thing. I’m not sure. 
 

What he does for a living is so taxing on him. So, I just tend to let those type things go. He can do plenty in my world that is good enough. I can do far less in his. 
 

Not demeaning weaponized incompetence. It’s a thing, and I’m sure it’s difficult to deal with. 

[Grace Hopper]

Sorry, not sure I answered the original question (lol after years of training my kids to “address the prompt”!)

(Eta well voice text got the next paragraph all wrong, let me rephrase….)

I’m not sure there’s a great way to tell the difference unless you know the person well, know their level of familiarity with the task, their personality and aptitude. Even then under certain circumstances a person can choose to do a job poorly if they don’t believe it was justly assigned to them in the first place. Maybe not a great show of character but we don’t always know why people behave the way they do.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Annie G]

When our kids did a poor job it was somewhere between weaponized incompetence and sheer indifference. They just didn’t put forth the effort, and when called on it, they just did a second half a$$ed job.  They didn’t specifically set out to do a crummy enough job to make me do it myself, but if that’s what happened they were cool w it.    It’s a LOT more work to insist they do a chore right than to do it myself, and I admit that sometimes fatigue led to me not being consistent about making them do it right. 

[Indigo Blue]

1 minute ago, Grace Hopper said:

address the prompt

Ha ha. It’s hard when there’s other stuff you feel compelled to say. 😁

[Arcadia]

My dad, my brother and some of my relatives tries very hard to do whatever tasks assigned to them for large family gatherings but they aren’t going to be as “competent” as other relatives for the same task. For example, someone could rattle off a list of things to get and a cousin would have no problems knowing where to get the items and also remember what he/she is supposed to get. My dad and my brother would need a shopping list with the store names where each item might be available is included.  They want to help but they won’t be as good or as fast with the assigned tasks.

[EKS]

It doesn't answer the question, but I much prefer the term "creative incompetence."  I think that calling it "weaponized" is vastly overstating what's going on.

[saraha]

I refuse to take the time to learn some of the game/tv/computer stuff around here. I have so much stuff on my plate, someone else can just be in charge and do things for me. I guess that is weaponized incompetence 

[marbel]

7 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My dad and my brother would need a shopping list with the store names where each item might be available is included.  They want to help but they won’t be as good or as fast with the assigned tasks.

Yes. After 20+ years of doing 90% of the grocery shopping (which made sense for our life/division of labor), I can't just tell my husband or son to get X item unless it's very simple, like "a gallon of whole milk." 

I discovered that the reason I'm the only one who can find things in the pantry is because : a, I bought it and know what the package looks like; and b, I know where I put it. Now when my YA son shops for himself, he can find the things he bought for the same reason. He and I both also have good visual memory - I can picture where on the pantry shelf the cans of tuna are, for ex - but my husband is lacking in that, so he can't find it until he's gotten it a few times - and that's assuming I always put it in the same place in the pantry.  If I move it, or I buy a different brand, well, that's a new ball game.   But I know some people considered that intentional incompetence. 

[marbel]

3 minutes ago, EKS said:

It doesn't answer the question, but I much prefer the term "creative incompetence."  I think that calling it "weaponized" is vastly overstating what's going on.

Yes, I don't love the term "weaponized" but that is how I see it stated most often. 

[EKS]

3 minutes ago, marbel said:

Yes, I don't love the term "weaponized" but that is how I see it stated most often. 

I suspect it's because people are always wanting to play the victim these days.

[frogger]

6 minutes ago, marbel said:

Yes. After 20+ years of doing 90% of the grocery shopping (which made sense for our life/division of labor), I can't just tell my husband or son to get X item unless it's very simple, like "a gallon of whole milk." 

I discovered that the reason I'm the only one who can find things in the pantry is because : a, I bought it and know what the package looks like; and b, I know where I put it. Now when my YA son shops for himself, he can find the things he bought for the same reason. He and I both also have good visual memory - I can picture where on the pantry shelf the cans of tuna are, for ex - but my husband is lacking in that, so he can't find it until he's gotten it a few times - and that's assuming I always put it in the same place in the pantry.  If I move it, or I buy a different brand, well, that's a new ball game.   But I know some people considered that intentional incompetence. 

I often have to ask my husband where something is in the garage. I just figure it is faster than trying to figure out how he organized things or didn't organize them. 😂

The same could be said for my pantry. 

[Lecka]

I believe my husband can get this way with his mother, but she is extremely controlling and micro-managing.  She also will start out asking for something small, and then once he has agreed, she rapidly changes to make it much more complicated.

She also has a history of changing her mind so that things have to be redone or restarted halfway through.  
 

Oh, and nothing is ever good enough for her and she’s never satisfied.  
 

I have not seen him have this dynamic with anyone else.  
 

But, he really does not like to be micro-managed, and he has had it come up at work here and there.  
 

With other people — I have seen people who have gotten away with getting out of work this way and it’s a successful strategy in its way.  When it’s intentional this way it’s extremely childish and immature.  
 

But I also think that the vast majority of the time, things are misunderstandings and not on purpose!  Or somebody is making an honest effort!  This is not my blanket assumption of people, but I have seen it, and I have even heard people brag about doing it.
 

Edit:  the stuff with my MIL is more from when my husband was growing up and a teenager.  Now it’s more sad as she wants things that do not make sense as good ideas, and is mad when no one will help her.  

Edited June 30, 2023 by Lecka

[Corraleno]

The version of this that I deal with the most is less innocent than genuine incompetence but also less conscious or purposeful than weaponized incompetence. I don't know a good word for it, but it's when someone with ADHD genuinely struggles with something, but also makes no effort to mitigate or compensate for it. For example, they may be bad about keeping track of dates, and say they want to learn to use a calendar and keep it up to date, but then they don't do it because it's hard. Or they struggle to remember and complete all the tasks they need to do, but also make no effort to set up and use a To Do list, because it's hard to remember to make the list. So all the executive function tasks just get dumped on the non-ADHD spouse/parent/coworker/etc., instead of making a real effort to set up habits that would allow them to manage those tasks themselves.

 

[wisdomandtreasures]

...

Edited June 30, 2023 by wisdomandtreasures

[JustEm]

5 minutes ago, marbel said:

I discovered that the reason I'm the only one who can find things in the pantry is because : a, I bought it and know what the package looks like; and b, I know where I put it. Now when my YA son shops for himself, he can find the things he bought for the same reason. He and I both also have good visual memory - I can picture where on the pantry shelf the cans of tuna are, for ex - but my husband is lacking in that, so he can't find it until he's gotten it a few times - and that's assuming I always put it in the same place in the pantry.  If I move it, or I buy a different brand, well, that's a new ball game.   But I know some people considered that intentional incompetence. 

I have a hard time not seeing something like that as intentional incompetence though.  My entire family used to be like that.  They'd immediately ask me if I knew where something was even before looking for it.  And at a certain point I just stopped telling them where things were because I viewed it as them shifting the mental energy of finding something from them to me without even trying. I made it a point to tell them exactly why I was no longer telling them where things were, especially food because if it is in a certain cabinet, like the baking cabinet, they can spend some time looking through the cabinet to find it.  And that is exactly what happened.  All of a sudden everyone in my house knew where things were supposed to be. Sometimes it took them longer than it would take me to find it but they could still find it.

Now I will help with obscure things like where are our tax forms for xyz year, social security cards, etc.  I don't expect dh to know where that is because I handle that stuff almost exclusively. But I would expect him to know the layout of our house well enough to make a pretty good educated guess of at least what room they were in

[Heartstrings]

I think “weaponized” is accurate in un healthy relationships.  It might not feel weapononizrd in an overall healthy relationship, but we shouldn’t discount the myriad of ways relationships can be unhealthy. 
 

We also tend to sweep some if it under the rug as just “men being men”.   How many dads “forget” that diapers need to be changed or children need to fed? How many time have you heard of a mom who gets phones calls every minute that she’s out of the house?  Is dad really a bumbling idiot or is he making her “pay” for leaving? 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Heartstrings

[vonfirmath]

6 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I think “weaponized” is accurate in un healthy relationships.  It might not feel weapononizrd in an overall healthy relationship, but we shouldn’t discount the myriad of ways relationships can be unhealthy. 
 

We also tend to sweep some if it under the rug as just “men being men”.   How many dads “forget” that diapers need to be changed or children need to fed? How many time have you heard of a mom who gets phones calls every minute that she’s out of the house?  Is dad really a bumbling idiot or is he making her “pay” for leaving? 

Or does she berate  him when she gets home if he does not do things the way she would? So he's trying to minimize that.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by vonfirmath

[marbel]

3 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

We also tend to sweep some if it under the rug as just “men being men”.   How many dads “forget” that diapers need to be changed or children need to fed? 

I've seen women accused of it too. I've not been, but I have my own things I'm incompetent with - a person could look at me and think I'm being intentionally incompetent with some things. And maybe I am about some things, now that I'm thinking about it. 

In my own examples, it's men because I deal mostly with men now. 

[Indigo Blue]

9 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The version of this that I deal with the most is less innocent than genuine incompetence but also less conscious or purposeful than weaponized incompetence. I don't know a good word for it, but it's when someone with ADHD genuinely struggles with something, but also makes no effort to mitigate or compensate for it. For example, they may be bad about keeping track of dates, and say they want to learn to use a calendar and keep it up to date, but then they don't do it because it's hard. Or they struggle to remember and complete all the tasks they need to do, but also make no effort to set up and use a To Do list, because it's hard to remember to make the list. So all the executive function tasks just get dumped on the non-ADHD spouse/parent/coworker/etc., instead of making a real effort to set up habits that would allow them to manage those tasks themselves.

 

That’s interesting. If I ask Dh to do something that I can’t do, he may forget about it and “never get around to it.” I Then I forget that it didn’t get done sometimes. I have found that if I put a little sticky note with 3 or 4 important things that need to be done right on the kitchen table for him, he will do them pretty promptly and mark off each one as it gets done. 

[Farrar]

I don't think most of what's going on that's being called weaponized incompetence is actually that.

In order for it to be weaponized, I think it has to be a choice. It has to be that you were competent in the first place and made a choice not to be. Or at the very least that the person knows they are unable to do a thing and doesn't speak up and lets the whole thing go down in order to punish the other person.

It strikes me as deeply narcissistic because it assumes the actions are somehow targeted, maybe even at the speaker. We expect a lot from people and we punish them when they don't know how to do a thing. Like, maybe that person who didn't serve you quickly, that aunt who didn't show up on time, that friend who screwed up the tickets, that partner who didn't do the dishes... maybe that wasn't ABOUT YOU. Maybe they just screwed up. Maybe there's just an unhealthy pattern.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have a brother who purposely goes very slowly if anyone expresses impatience or even mild could you please hurry, we are late to him.  He has said that he does this to prevent them from talking like that to him.  This, to me, is weaponized incompetence, and although he has not had occasion to do this to me, I find it very passive aggressive as described.

My mom used to add things to any chore, and then she would get mad if someone didn’t add them in every time.  Not sure whether not adding them in ongoing was legit weaponized incompetence or just resistance or thinking it was a one off and acting accordingly.  My guess is that she would have considered it the first, and her family would have considered it the last.  What she could have done instead was say, this chore consists of A, B, and C from now on instead of assuming that that was either obvious or already conveyed.  But also she could have avoided bundling fairly unrelated stuff into the overall chore.

I used to think that if DH said Is there anything I can do to help?  And I answered, ‘Please get out the butter, mustard, and ketchup’ and then ensued a lengthy convo about where each of those were and where they should be placed and how long they could be out of the fridge without spoiling, that that was weaponized incompetence.  Because it took me longer and much more bandwidth to discuss all that than to do it myself.  But it wasn’t.  He just really doesn’t remember where things go, as I have learned from noticing how all of his stuff is moved around randomly and hunted for for each use, and he was really trying to do things right.  So we have compromised.  The more or less semi official working agreements we have developed over time are:  1.  He genuinely looks for things before asking me where they are.  2.  He does not question me if he is going to the store and I put something on the list that we have a tiny dab of left, because I have finally demonstrated to his satisfaction the benefit of a nicely stocked larder.  3.  He doesn’t say that he is helping me when I am heading up something that is really both of our responsibility.  4.  I tell him where things are as part of a request if I know the exact location.  5.  If something should be put on a plate or saucer when it is placed on the table I say that, too.  Bottom line—we give each other more grace and are able to mostly assume good will.  This is a hard won victory so I thought I would lay it out.

[Heartstrings]

2 minutes ago, marbel said:

I've seen women accused of it too. I've not been, but I have my own things I'm incompetent with - a person could look at me and think I'm being intentionally incompetent with some things. And maybe I am about some things, now that I'm thinking about it. 

In my own examples, it's men because I deal mostly with men now. 

Women can do it too, of course.  I’m usually seeing it in context of men because most relationship content is geared at women.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think of weaponized incompetence as being intentional. And I haven’t had anyone in my life who was passive-aggressive or aggressive-aggressive that way. Now I have done plenty of stupid things or have had to ask plenty of stupid questions and have people in my life who have done the same, but it’s genuine ignorance behind it!  
 

I remember when my mom was sick, she asked my dad to heat up some leftovers. Imagine the smoke and stench when he put the tupperware right on the burner!  He had no frame of reference for cooking because he grew up in the 20’s and 30’s when most men didn’t cook. And he was extremely embarrassed by having done such a stupid thing. And the leftovers were ruined and mom was still too sick to cook so there was no ulterior motive. 

[Heartstrings]

7 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Women can do it too, of course.  I’m usually seeing it in context of men because most relationship content is geared at women.  

Adding to my thought…

 

I don’t know that I’ve ever heard a man say they can’t leave for an evening because their wife doesn’t know how to bedtime, or suggest that they couldn’t possibly send their wife to the store, she hasn’t gone in 20 years and just couldn’t find anything.     There is a gendered component to this.  In our country women do the majority of household and childcare to the point where *some* married men almost can’t function.  And those men have boy children who expect girlfriends to continue on with that. Women aren’t really socialized to be incompetent in that way.   

Edited June 30, 2023 by Heartstrings

[SKL]

I might be guilty of this.  TBH I am a little bit lazy.  If I know something is going to be much easier for another person to do it, I let them do it.

Example happening right now:  I do the accounting for an entity and just got its audit report.  Audit report needs to be uploaded to a certain website.  I use the website for other things and could probably figure it out by:  1) requesting the login info from Person B; 2) logging in and looking around to see what has been done in prior years; 3) uploading the document.  Alternatively, I could ask Person B "if it would be easier for her to do it."  Person B regularly files reports for this particular entity and would have the login info memorized & know exactly what to do.  But, then I would not learn this part of the job.  (Both of us have tons of other work to do, so it's not like either of us is more free than the other.)  (And other times, it's me being asked to do something I am better at, though they could learn it.)

So ... weaponized incompetence?  Or well-intentioned efficiency?

With my kids, I am sure they are just plain lazy up to a point.  They could learn xyz, but they make it such a chore for me to teach, I will often just do it myself.  (This includes learning how to plan / prioritize things they already know how to do.)  This is me being a bad teacher/manager.  But also them being inconsiderate.

I do think everyone is incompetent in some areas.  And lazy at some times.  And well-meaning at other times.

[Clarita]

I've never had to deal with it inside of family dynamics. Kids are little so they really are just incompetent. Between my husband and I, I'm the incompetent one with house stuff. My mom and in-laws are super honest about what they do and do not want to do. 

At work , I'm usually pretty naïve about weaponized incompetence, but it's worked for me. Usually if someone is incompetent at their job I do my best to train them. If that is taking too much time, then I have a sit down with them and talk about where I need/expect their skills to be and in what time frame I need to see this to happen. (I've never been in a position to actually determine anyone's employability.) Then I honestly tell them how others (especially those with that power) feel about their performance. We start a discussion about how to get to that point with "How can I help you get to this competent point." I found the I part to be really key in this conversation, because for someone who is weaponizing incompetence at a workplace usually it's because they don't like the job in some way and if I find that reason and can fix that or dangle a carrot with respect to that it helps the job performance. If the company can't meet those needs of that employee in my opinion it is time to part ways. 

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Indigo Blue said:

I don’t know….

Dh and I each have our own things we do. He works physical labor in all seasons, and he is not a spring chicken anymore. I work from home but am unable to mow the grass for him. We only have a push mower. I do my things and he does his things, and sometimes I need help. Say, if we are packing to go somewhere or the boys are coming to stay for a week, and I want the house/yard/bookkeeping all done so we can just enjoy their company. If he helps to do some of my things, he invariably asks questions or needs me to show him something simple that I think…surely you can figure that out….but I don’t know if it is truly weaponized incompetence. I don’t think so, but sometimes he just doesn’t like to do things that he doesn’t normally do. Not big things, really. Mostly little things. Like, if he needs to chop carrots, he wants to know which bowl to put them in or something. So I have to take out the bowl for him. He may not want to go to the trouble to find a bowl? Or he may genuinely be stressing over a minor thing. I’m not sure. 
 

What he does for a living is so taxing on him. So, I just tend to let those type things go. He can do plenty in my world that is good enough. I can do far less in his. 
 

Not demeaning weaponized incompetence. It’s a thing, and I’m sure it’s difficult to deal with. 

And a lot of those questions could be to prevent the other thing we women like to complain about - people doing things their way and not our way!  😛

[Arcadia]

46 minutes ago, marbel said:

But I know some people considered that intentional incompetence.

My husband is spatially challenged. He can’t visualize well and can’t remember where things go. A side effect of this inability is that he tends to not put things back where he get them from because he doesn’t remember where he gets them from. For example he takes milk from the fridge but he is likely going to put the milk carton back in the fridge at a different location than the usual milk carton spot. My kids visual spatial abilities are as strong as mine so they have learned to laugh it off instead of being annoyed at misplaced household items. Honestly, it is easier for DS17 to improve his processing speed than for my husband to improve his visual spatial ability and my husband is the most industrious person in our family. 
My husband is great at laundry, ironing and mopping the floors. I can’t iron well regardless how much I tried. I rather pay dry cleaners to iron if my parents and husband wasn’t willing/able to help. Its a lot of frustration (and demoralizing) when someone just isn’t able to do the task as well as he/she wish he/she could.
 

[SKL]

24 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think of weaponized incompetence as being intentional. And I haven’t had anyone in my life who was passive-aggressive or aggressive-aggressive that way. Now I have done plenty of stupid things or have had to ask plenty of stupid questions and have people in my life who have done the same, but it’s genuine ignorance behind it!  
 

I remember when my mom was sick, she asked my dad to heat up some leftovers. Imagine the smoke and stench when he put the tupperware right on the burner!  He had no frame of reference for cooking because he grew up in the 20’s and 30’s when most men didn’t cook. And he was extremely embarrassed by having done such a stupid thing. And the leftovers were ruined and mom was still too sick to cook so there was no ulterior motive. 

An intelligent adult I live with tried to drain noodles into a colander that was just sitting on the counter.

I can often be heard saying, "... the things you thought you didn't need to tell someone." ....

No doubt I've had my fair share of incompetent moments too.

[SKL]

As the oldest daughter, I was trained from a pretty early age in all things domestic.  So many things I don't remember actually "learning" or needing to be conscious of planning.  It makes me assume certain things are obvious to everyone ... until I work with someone who is genuinely clueless.

My youngest, 16yo, was sent by a family friend to go shop for cooking ingredients.  Many of these ingredients were things she didn't know existed, or at least, things we've never shopped for before.  She found a bunch, but called me, wondering what to do about the things she could not find, and worrying that she was taking too long.  She was afraid to go back and admit she was too incompetent to shop a grocery list.  I gave her some advice and hoped for the best.  (When she arrived with the groceries purchased from multiple grocery stores, an individual said, "why didn't you buy all organic??"  Sigh.  She really did try.  BUT if she were doing this for ME, she wouldn't have been afraid to say, "couldn't find that, sorry.")

Edited June 30, 2023 by SKL

[alysee]

My husband and I are a Partnership. We also both deal with the incompetence of each other. My husband and I have very clear jobs  because I have ADHD and I am not detail oriented. For his part, he doesnt like to read, like at all so even instructions on laundry or recipes are a disaster. We pick up the slack for the other because we are humans choosing to do life together. It might seem weaponized to the outside world but it works for us 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that we underestimate the little bits of accumulated knowledge that we need to do certain simple tasks. I am embarrassed at how stupid I can be about fix-it type jobs. I technically know that it should be easy to use a drill for something but I wasn’t given exposure to all those little things like what bit to choose for what job, and how much pressure to use and what angle to hold it etc. And when I try to do these things myself Dh gets frustrated with me (though he doesn’t accuse me of weaponized incompetence) and often has to redo the job himself. What I really want is to learn to do it competently but I need a patient teacher who will do more than tell me to “just use the drill “. 

[Kanin]

12 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think that we underestimate the little bits of accumulated knowledge that we need to do certain simple tasks.

I agree.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Kanin

[stephanier.1765]

I'd love to know how to fight back against it.

[marbel]

36 minutes ago, SKL said:

And a lot of those questions could be to prevent the other thing we women like to complain about - people doing things their way and not our way!  😛

Yeah, I can see that.

Similarly, when my kids were babies, a lot of the women from the mom's group would complain about their husband's apparent incompetence with the kids, or doing things wrong.  The leader (a nurse and lactation consultant) would talk about the danger of mom not letting dad do things his way, because then she'd always end up doing everything. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

20 minutes ago, marbel said:

Yeah, I can see that.

Similarly, when my kids were babies, a lot of the women from the mom's group would complain about their husband's apparent incompetence with the kids, or doing things wrong.  The leader (a nurse and lactation consultant) would talk about the danger of mom not letting dad do things his way, because then she'd always end up doing everything. 

Yes.  It's ok for dad to do things "his way" and mom to do things "her way".  Of course unless actual harm will occur, which let's face it, usually is not the case. 

I've told this story before but I had a neighbor who had her first baby after age 40.  She knew absolutely nothing about babies.  I discovered by accident that certain assumptions I had about where her knowledge started was totally wrong when she asked me about feeding babies and I mentioned in passing something about getting up at night to feed a baby and she was so surprised that you had to feed a baby during the night.  The advice I had been giving her (at her request) wasn't really helpful to her because it assumed a base of knowledge that she didn't have.  Then even after she had the baby she had me on speed dial.  I had to explain that it was ok/possible/preferable to put baby in the baby seat or even on a blanket on the floor for a few minutes while she changed the crib sheets instead of relying on me running over there to hold the baby while she did a simple chore.  Fortunately when she had her second baby she had a better base of knowledge (though I still had to explain to her that her 40 something husband wouldn't die if she left him alone with the flu and ran to the grocery store 3 minutes away for some soup). 

Having a base of knowledge gives the brain a break and you can concentrate on the "important things" if even that.  Often we do those things on auto pilot once we have that base of knowledge.  But if you don't have that base of knowledge then your brain is overloaded with all the details and it's easy to get overwhelmed. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Jean in Newcastle
left out a word

[Corraleno]

To me, weaponized incompetence represents a pattern of behavior, not lack of knowledge or an occasional screw-up due to lack of training. If a teen who's never loaded a dishwasher before forgets to rinse the dishes first because no one explained that, that's a genuine mistake, but if the same teen continues to load it without rinsing, even after being repeatedly reminded and seeing the dishes come out of the dishwasher with stuck-on food, because they're hoping that task gets assigned to someone else, that's weaponized incompetence. A dad who forgets he was supposed to pick up the kids from school one day might be an "oops," but if it's supposed to be a standing thing every other Wednesday and he frequently forgets because he doesn't bother to put it on a calendar or set a reminder, and he suggests that the best solution is just for mom to do it herself, that's weaponized incompetence.

The pattern can also be more generalized, vs just repeatedly doing the same thing badly. E.g. someone agreeing to do a task they're perfectly capable of doing, but then not doing it until someone else does all the organizational and prep work, collects any necessary materials, assigns and schedules every task, etc.  If someone says "sure, I'll clean out the garage this weekend" and then 2 months later is saying "well I would have done it any of the last 8 weekends, but you didn't make a list of specific tasks, and buy the Rubbermaid tubs I want for my tools, and make yourself available for 8-10 hours each day to decide where every. single. thing. should go...," that's weaponized incompetence. Calling your wife from another state to ask whether the hotel that you are currently staying in serves breakfast is weaponized incompetence. 

[marbel]

I was really fortunate that when I had my first baby, my husband had time off work, so we learned things together. I actually preferred he bathe the baby at first because I felt incompetent. I wish everyone could have that experience*. I think that, and the mom's group leader I mentioned above, really derailed any thoughts that I knew best how to care for the baby. 

Which leads to me wondering: how much of a father's apparent incompetence comes from their own family history, in which dad may never have lifted a finger with a baby because, you know, men didn't do that? Seems young fathers now wouldn't have had that sort of cultural "training" but maybe they still do?

I also wonder sometimes how much men talk about women being intentionally incompetent. 

*Of learning together, not feeling incompetent to bathe the baby.

Edited June 30, 2023 by marbel

[Indigo Blue]

Those are good examples @Corraleno. I was coming to post to ask for examples, but you already gave some good ones. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Indigo Blue

[Heartstrings]

3 minutes ago, marbel said:

also wonder sometimes how much men talk about women being intentionally incompetent. 

Thankfully a culture of men calling out other men is developing.  It’s a lot more common now for a good husband to point out where his buddy could be doing more around the house or child care, or using google instead of his wife’s brain. 

[Farrar]

22 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My husband is spatially challenged. He can’t visualize well and can’t remember where things go. A side effect of this inability is that he tends to not put things back where he get them from because he doesn’t remember where he gets them from. For example he takes milk from the fridge but he is likely going to put the milk carton back in the fridge at a different location than the usual milk carton spot. My kids visual spatial abilities are as strong as mine so they have learned to laugh it off instead of being annoyed at misplaced household items. Honestly, it is easier for DS17 to improve his processing speed than for my husband to improve his visual spatial ability and my husband is the most industrious person in our family. 
My husband is great at laundry, ironing and mopping the floors. I can’t iron well regardless how much I tried. I rather pay dry cleaners to iron if my parents and husband wasn’t willing/able to help. Its a lot of frustration (and demoralizing) when someone just isn’t able to do the task as well as he/she wish he/she could.
 

I feel like we're married to the same guy here. This is seriously my dh to a tee as well down to the milk spot (it's the towel spot that really drives me crazy... how do you forget which hook is yours in a house where you've lived for 20 years?!). Though mine does the laundry, but won't do the floors. I mean, he could, it just isn't how the tasks fell in the house.

My mother and I got into a huge argument about this where she was like, well, obviously he doesn't care about you enough to listen to put the thing back where it goes. And I was like, okay, stop right there. Yes, I get frustrated by it, but it's not like that. He has a genuine issue. And she was really patronizing, as if I was being naive. She didn't use the term "weaponized incompetence" but that's definitely what she was thinking. But I think that illustrates the sort of narcissism of assuming that these sorts of things are about the other person and not about some other issue altogether.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I try not to weaponize what should be loving relationships.  If a teen asked me how to do something that had been explained multiple times, I didn't get mad.  I just asked them, "How do you think it should be done?"  Often that was enough to get them visualizing what they had heard or had be shown.  Once they could tell me how it was done, then they could do it themself.

I married a competent adult, but he has certain blind spots especially during times of stress.  If he asks me to locate something simple, I might ask him "where did you look"?  And if he hasn't bothered to look, that will prompt him to do so.  Or if he's too busy or stressed to look then he will state that and I will help him out gladly.  He will do the same for me.

If someone called to ask me if the hotel served breakfast, I'd simply say "I don't know.  How are you going to find out?"  And not in a snarky way.  Sometimes people just don't think things through.

If there truly was passive-aggressive behavior going on, then I would specifically deal with that.  If there was a lack of boundaries then I would enforce them.  A boundary can be "I won't look for your shoes unless you look in the usual spots first." 

 

[Kanin]

In my life, "weaponized" is too strong of a word. However... there are lots of times when I get frustrated with DH. Yes, I did take on too much when we were a young couple and so he didn't learn how to do things at the same time I did. Over the years, though, he hasn't shown much interest in learning any of the things, or in devising a system to make sure he's contributing to the shared workload.

He'll do things if I make the list and tell him when I want things done. I don't want to make a dang list for a fully capable adult!

[SHP]

Hmm I do know people who I would feel choose to do a task they are capable of wrong, however, I suspect there are often underlying unmet needs and poor to no communication about needs, wants, and personal limitations resulting in assumptions of ability and motivationg on the part of the asker and passive agressive behaviors and the part of the asked. 

 

[Danae]

I think there are different levels.  
 

“Weaponized,” to me implies both intentional and aimed at hurting the person who asked you to do the task. I’m sure that happens, but either the relationship is deeply dysfunctional or the person is abusive.  Or both. Calling this out is not going to help, because doing damage is the point.

Much more common is what I would call “self-serving incompetence.”  It’s not intended to hurt the other person, and it might not even be a fully conscious choice, but the purpose is to not be assigned the task in the future.  Not getting good at something because you don’t want it to be your regular chore.  
 

Then there’s not developing competence because you just don’t care much about or see the importance of the task, or because it’s really not in your skill set/natural ability, or because you have a neurological difference that makes it harder, or . . .