Basic culture literacy? Or, by homeschooling I've screwed up my kid.

[dirty ethel rackham]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

It didn’t read like an endorsement for that approach.

Not being snarky, but I'm wondering what you meant by that.  Can you elaborate?  

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

Not being snarky, but I'm wondering what you meant by that.  Can you elaborate?  

Sure. I see lots of benefits from sheltering kids and protecting them from harmful influences. I also feel like there’s a potential loss there too of not being able to/allowed to discern what’s truly harmful vs. what’s a passing fad/cultural touchstone. What you described sounded like throwing the baby out with the bath water vs carefully separating the wheat from the chaff and at least one kiddo felt the loss.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[rebcoola]

My middle is interning for the summer at our childrens theatre and the range of what the kids talk about and into is really wide.  Mr. Beast a youtuber is pretty common but specific movies not so much Harry Potter, star wars and marvel, dc always have a following.   

 

 

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, I would have been fine with my kid watching shows to fit in. But my kid just never got into it (it took years to be DX'd with ASD, but that was likely a sign of it. Animals were interesting. People really weren't, and books were more engaging than TV. For the most part, Spongebob, Hannah Montana, and Disney princesses didn't register much (except for Tiana, because frogs...) And that WAS a social barrier even at age 3-4. So, basically we did approach it like cultural anthropology and research as a teaching point. Find out what someone likes, find out a bit about it, and be able to let them talk about it, so you're not the one doing all the talking. 

 

Once L was older, finding common interests was easier, but that strategy still works. 

 

 

 

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Sure. I see lots of benefits from sheltering kids and protecting them from harmful influences. I also feel like there’s a potential loss there too, I’m not being able to discern what’s truly harmful vs. what’s a passing fad/cultural touchstone. What you described sounded like throwing the baby out with the bath water vs carefully separating the wheat from the chaff and at least one kiddo felt the loss.

I don't believe that is what we did.  We didn't intentionally shelter them from all harmful influences. While I found the content of Nickelodeon and Disney channel shows inane, I also felt that way about many PBS shows.  It's that I hate advertising aimed at children, which is designed to take advantage of their underdeveloped critical thinking to manipulate the whine factor.  

I felt that we had a more thoughtful, curated exposure to pop culture, much less restrictive than many of my home educator peers.  As the kids got older (beyond the "advertising to children" phase), they had a lot more influence on what we watched.  I don't think our approach MADE our kids weird. DH and I had typical childhoods in the 70s and we are pretty nerdy.  My older 2 are naturally pretty nerdy (or maybe they are because they were raised by nerdy parents.)  My youngest, who felt that she was weird, is the least weird person in our family.  She, being the youngest, had more more exposure to pop culture than the older two.  I think simply homeschooling made her feel different.  She had to learn school culture ... like raising her hand to go to the bathroom, not simply walking out of class, certain lunch room etiquette (she's a slow eater), and not to be too eager to answer the teacher's questions.  She missed out on conversations comparing what teacher they had in junior high or what they did in gym class (she was going part time and was an athlete in a non-school sport so she didn't take gym.)  None of these were pop culture related.  I guess I did her a disservice by homeschooling her ... but she would not be an engineer right now if I hadn't because she would have been kept out of the science classes with people who also loved science due to being only average at math (we continued to homeschool math for this reason.)  

I think the comment about her being normal for being a homeschooler was more about the stigma of all homeschoolers being either socially awkward brainiacs or socially awkward undereducated kids.  

Your comment seems to diss us nerdy parents who happen to raise the stereotypical nerdy kids and then blame it on us sheltering our kids from pop culture.  

[Sneezyone]

24 minutes ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

I don't believe that is what we did.  We didn't intentionally shelter them from all harmful influences. While I found the content of Nickelodeon and Disney channel shows inane, I also felt that way about many PBS shows.  It's that I hate advertising aimed at children, which is designed to take advantage of their underdeveloped critical thinking to manipulate the whine factor.  

I felt that we had a more thoughtful, curated exposure to pop culture, much less restrictive than many of my home educator peers.  As the kids got older (beyond the "advertising to children" phase), they had a lot more influence on what we watched.  I don't think our approach MADE our kids weird. DH and I had typical childhoods in the 70s and we are pretty nerdy.  My older 2 are naturally pretty nerdy (or maybe they are because they were raised by nerdy parents.)  My youngest, who felt that she was weird, is the least weird person in our family.  She, being the youngest, had more more exposure to pop culture than the older two.  I think simply homeschooling made her feel different.  She had to learn school culture ... like raising her hand to go to the bathroom, not simply walking out of class, certain lunch room etiquette (she's a slow eater), and not to be too eager to answer the teacher's questions.  She missed out on conversations comparing what teacher they had in junior high or what they did in gym class (she was going part time and was an athlete in a non-school sport so she didn't take gym.)  None of these were pop culture related.  I guess I did her a disservice by homeschooling her ... but she would not be an engineer right now if I hadn't because she would have been kept out of the science classes with people who also loved science due to being only average at math (we continued to homeschool math for this reason.)  

I think the comment about her being normal for being a homeschooler was more about the stigma of all homeschoolers being either socially awkward brainiacs or socially awkward undereducated kids.  

Your comment seems to diss us nerdy parents who happen to raise the stereotypical nerdy kids and then blame it on us sheltering our kids from pop culture.  

See, I hear you, srsly, and yet this reflects bias and misunderstanding too. My kiddos aren’t equally sharp/pointy and have very different strengths and yet I’ve had only minor problems advocating for them to get the right supports/advancement in PS. Part of that is b/c I’m neither shy nor afraid of being labeled bitchy, true.

Do you know how many nights my college friends and I referenced Ron Popeill or the infomercial genre? 😂 If you can complete the line …”no, my brother, you gots to…” you may have been watching late night BET. We had no money but we had plenty of time and these references still pepper our speech. It’s an inside joke. Media has always been stratified, more so now to be sure, but what folks are describing in that vein is exactly what I lived. My DD and niece have spent a handful of hours together in 19 years and got on like a house on fire last week because they follow the same tik tokers and influencers. It was cray.

My husband *is* a nerd, not my type (before DH) at all. DS takes after him. Still, part of DSs education, DH made it a priority (not me, he’s my BABY!), was emphasizing cultural literacy. DS may not do sports or follow teams/stats but he can connect through Marvel and music, kwim? There are ways. I think it’s a disservice to suggest that it’s not important to consider this domain, or to see it as lesser or unimportant. It’s not.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Farrar]

12 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

If you can complete the line …”no, my brother, you gots to…”

Buy your own!

(Sorry, it was begging to be finished...)

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Buy your own!

(Sorry, it was begging to be finished...)

Technically, it was GETCHO-OWN, but same, same. You can come to the cookout. 🤣

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

The whole "My children don't watch TV, they read literature and paint and and do crafts while other people's children watch mindless crap" really bugs me. Believe it or not, it's possible for kids to watch TV (or YouTube or Netflix or whatever) and read literature, make art, go to museums, etc. My kids watched loads of nature documentaries and PBS art & culture shows, but they also watched The Simpsons and Sponge Bob and Big Bang Theory and tons of other stuff. Someone upthread mentioned Avatar the Last Air Bender — that was a brilliant show that my whole family loved.

Somehow, despite watching plenty of "junk" TV, my kids still found time to read books, make art, study music, build projects, frequent the Natural History and Science Museums, etc. Not only did years of watching Sponge Bob not prevent DS from reading Greek literature (in Greek), but when he was the awkward, ADHD, homeschooled freshman on his college varsity team, and for some random reason Sponge Bob became a source of continuing memes and in-jokes, he not only understood the jokes, he could contribute his own. His love for Battlestar Galactica provided a shared bond with a teammate, who became his best friend and made freshman year less isolated and lonely.

Sometimes people want to be creative or intellectually stimulated, and sometimes they just want to chill out and be entertained. Sometimes you want to read Dostoevsky and other times you just want a quick fun beach read. Sometimes you're in the mood for Mozart and other times you just want put on some boppy 80s music while you clean the house. Sometimes you want to tour Roman archeological sites, and other times you just want to lie by the pool for a week. None of those choices are inherently more moral or virtuous than others.

I didn't limit TV / screens because we're better than everyone else.  I did it because one of my kids went full zombie every time the TV was on.  I would say she was "sucked into" the TV.  It didn't feel right to me.

We did some of it anyway, but given limited time, I was choosy about what they watched when they were little.  As tots, I was concerned with language development, as they had come from a non-English-speaking country and needed to learn English.  As they got older, they had more options.  They really liked some series like Liberty's Kids, Carmen Sandiego, and Magic School Bus that we had on DVD.  And on weekends, they could watch TV freely when we were home.

[Farrar]

You know, I feel like I took a hybrid approach to this whole thing. On the one hand, I was super intentional about introducing my kids to certain games and TV shows (Mario Kart, Avatar!) and I was relatively controlling about content and time spent on screens when they were little, but on the other hand, I stepped further and further back over time. 

One thing that's super striking to me is that they have a deep familiarity with late aughts and early teen's pop music and I'm like... HOW?!? I wasn't keeping it from them, but we didn't listen to the radio much and they weren't on headphones often. Plus they didn't watch much Youtube yet at those ages. I have no idea how that happened. But... something about the ether. They will definitely get nostalgia about a song from like 2009 and be like, "Oh, I haven't heard this in ages," and I'll be like... I don't think I've EVER heard this.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have never watched Spongebob Squarepants but it wasn’t hard to be exposed to his name, his look, his friends (I only know the names of Mr. Krab and Patrick Star but I recognize the images of other characters ) and I know that they live in Bikini Bottom. I see them on t-shirts, backpacks, lunchboxes, in commercials etc. 

Most cultural literacy is like that- it doesn’t take much to get the gist of certain programs, movies, songs etc. 

[SKL]

I wasn't homeschooled, but I remember having no idea when the kids in primary school would bring up whatever Laverne and Shirley did last night.  😛  My folks didn't like L&S, and we only had 1 TV (like most people in those days), so too bad!

[El...]

I think that a lack of cultural literacy nearly torpedoed two of my siblings' opportunities. This probably doesn't apply to the OP at ALL, but it's relevant to the discussion more broadly, I think. 

We were very sheltered (ATI Gothard) and didn't have a TV for most of our childhoods. We weren't exposed to a lot of variety in music. It wasn't all a locked tower and of course there's a lot more to our story.

Anyway, two of my siblings were offered boarding-school dual enrollment college opportunities due to giftedness, very hard work, and good test scores at 16. They both went.

The first almost failed out the first semester because they spent their time attempting to learn all the music they hadn't heard before and generally learning to fit in instead of studying. They pulled the nose up and the program was a huge asset to their objectives. 

The second, a decade later, did fail out because they were very overwhelmed and spent their time binge-watching tv.

That first sibling will never homeschool. They consider it a disservice because of their isolation. The second is preparing to homeschool. Both are highly successful and have high levels of  executive skills at this point, in maturity. 

Immaturity was a huge factor. But feeling like an outsider didn't help, and I'm trying to prevent that experience for my kids.

Edited June 28, 2023 by El...
Spelling

[Ginevra]

I mean…I’m still this way. Unless it refers to Harry Potter, I usually miss it. There are large swathes of the culture I know nothing about; TV has never been important to me. 
 

[wintermom]

19 hours ago, Pintosrock said:

About 6 years ago, we took the tv out of the living room. My kid (age 9) spends her free time reading,  playing and making lots of art. Success,  right? Nooooo...

My kid signed up for a theater class this summer,  which she LOVES. The problem is they end every class with a game like charades, except you talk to give clues. Since she doesn't watch TV, my kid is TERRIBLE at guessing the other kids' characters. Today, she decided to be Matilda, which no one, not even the teacher could guess (but her clues were very obvious, if you've read Roald Dahl). 

My kid has asked to bring the TV back out and be allowed to watch shows/movies. So, what are all the popular things kids are watching? Frozen and Toy Story and ??? I'm so clueless and out of the loop. Help!

I think that's great you are listening to your dc's request. I did the same when my dc asked to play specific video games so that they could connect with their peers - also in a theatre group. This was pre-COVID, and boy am I glad they had these virtual connects in place, because during the lockdowns these were their social life-lines. 

I'd continue to let your child guide you through the programs they are hearing about from their peers. As long as these make sense to you to allow, then go ahead.

I would want to make guesses and assumptions about the kinds of programs based on my adult experiences. I'm hearing after-the-fact that my dc were terrified of Toy Story - all of them. 

[SKL]

In life, I actually had more trouble because my family wasn't into sports.  When I went to work for an accounting firm, all they ever talked about was pro basketball, and I didn't have a clue.  So for my kids, I wanted to make sure they have a clue about sports ... which generally meant less screen time.  It's a balance.  A little of this, a little of that, and you can hold a conversation when you need to.  🙂

[wintermom]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

In life, I actually had more trouble because my family wasn't into sports.  When I went to work for an accounting firm, all they ever talked about was pro basketball, and I didn't have a clue.  So for my kids, I wanted to make sure they have a clue about sports ... which generally meant less screen time.  It's a balance.  A little of this, a little of that, and you can hold a conversation when you need to.  🙂

From the IT Crowd

 

[El...]

2 minutes ago, wintermom said:

From the IT Crowd

 

Ah... this may not be a homeschool thing at all, huh? Just the universal human (erm, nerd) experience?

[Sneezyone]

Just now, El... said:

Ah... this may not be a homeschool thing at all, huh? Just the universal human (erm, nerd) experience?

It’s a SPECIFIC ‘nerd’ experience, not universal at all, never has been. My DH wouldn’t relate.

[wintermom]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It’s a SPECIFIC ‘nerd’ experience, not universal at all, never has been. My DH wouldn’t relate.

I would disagree. It's universal in that depending on your audience, there are terms and jargon highly specific to the sector. In order to fit in, you need to learn the jargon. You can bluff you way after that... 😉  Con artists (and actors) are brilliant at learning the necessarily jargon/look, and away they go impersonating doctors, lawyers, pilots, etc.

Edited June 28, 2023 by wintermom

[Sneezyone]

I was riding with a coworker yesterday, 9 years younger, totally different coasts of origin and her playlist hit me in the feels. I knew every word! I was like, “Listen, I know you were raised by old people 😂 and all but your playlist brings back so many memories!” She said something to the effect of, yea, I don’t know any black folk who don’t have a soundtrack for their lives. That’s culture. That’s connection. My DS couldn’t pick Lebron James out of a lineup but he knows funk!

Edited June 29, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Kassia]

My kids were pretty much brought up without tv or movies just because I don't enjoy movies/tv so my kids weren't exposed to them.  My boys did love Star Wars, though.  We didn't watch many sports either.  My sons never said it was a problem but dd finds it to be an issue.  She is an introvert and already has trouble socially and finds that tv/movies/sports tend to be common conversation/ice breaker topics and she feels awkward when she has no clue what people are talking about or she has nothing to contribute to the conversation.  She doesn't like tv/movies or most sports now as a young adult. 

[kathyl]

I just had a flashback skimming through this thread.  When I was a (public schooled) kid, maybe preteens (?), 1960's, I was at my aunt's house in Baton Rouge.  She was late teens maybe.  She asked if I listened to Elvis.  I had NO clue what in the world she was talking about.  So she turned on her little record player and played me some Elvis.  🤣  I didn't like it despite her trying to get me to rave about it.  All I'd ever wanted to do was take piano lessons and that's the music I was familiar with and loved - Beethoven, Mozart, etc.

She seemed embarrassed or something, but I didn't care.  I knew what I liked and what I didn't like.  IOW, even as a kid I viewed it more as her problem than mine.  I found the whole thing very annoying.  🙄

 

As far as TV/media/video games for our hs'ed kids, I just looked at our resources available, our time available, and my end goals for our kids.  Based on those criteria, it was easy to get rid of the TV and exclude the other stuff.  And cell phones and laptops weren't even in the picture back then (began hs'ing in 1988).

A couple of other factors that played a huge part in that decision - my dh would turn on the TV (LOUD) and just let it play, even falling asleep in front of it at night, and waking me up in the middle of the night when he finally came to bed.  *I* was also tempted to turn it on whenever I was tired or wanted to zonk out.  And a few of my kids were prone to zoning out in front of TV or any kind of video.  I just didn't want to, or have the time or energy to, fight that battle with any of us, myself included.  

We did get a tiny TV and video player later and put it out in the camper.  We used that to watch a few movies once in a blue moon.  But by that time all my kids had so many other interests and things to do that they weren't even really interested in sitting in front of a screen of any kind.  So, dh and I mostly used that at night sometimes while dc did their own stuff inside or outside.

Oh, and I also grew up in the times when we all had 2-3 TV stations and they all signed off the air about 11pm at night, if I'm remembering correctly.  But I don't ever remember hearing the kids at school around me talking about TV shows.  Only one friend talked about Soul Train because she was using that Saturday show to learn to dance.  lol

   

Edited June 29, 2023 by kathyl

[catz]

Back on topic though.  Please oh please OP let your 9 year old theater loving child watch the Netflix Matilda musical movie (not the original movie).  Oh my gosh, so so fun!   Here is the preview

 

[Heartstrings]

A lot of formerly homeschooled adults do talk about not having shared cultural literacy as being something that they feel made them stick out uncomfortably with their peers and do feel like it interfered with social relationships in college and as a young adult.  I think those are voices we do well to listen to and at least consider if there is a way to mitigate those effects on our own children.  This is a path that others have gone down before and we can benefit from their perspective.  
 

Maybe seeing more kids movies in the theater, or a family movie night can be a compromise.  We also watch TV shows together as a family, like the Mandorian and all the Star Wars spin offs.    Most series are only 8 episodes now, so once a week commitments for a limited time frame.  

[bookbard]

 

26 minutes ago, catz said:

Back on topic though.  Please oh please OP let your 9 year old theater loving child watch the Netflix Matilda musical movie (not the original movie).  Oh my gosh, so so fun!

Yeah, we hated it. My kids were traumatised. It was so abusive. I don't know if a kid who doesn't watch TV could cope with the intensity of this - and there are lots of people arguing it turns child abuse into entertainment.

[Gil]

I would not change my families media consumption and screen culture because my kid has a loosing streak in the Charades played at the end of her Theatre class/club. You pick what your kids miss out on. That's the parenting gig.

My basic stance is that Broadcast TV is bad for you and unfettered internet access is even worse. We've never had a TV for watching Broadcast TV. Our TV was used for the Nintendo and DVD player.

To this day, The Boys play Nintendo Wii and Gamecube. I do not allow the more connected consoles. They can do different when they are living on their own as grown-men.

They've been playing the same consoles since early childhood. They have played a good chunk of the Wii and Gamecube library and as they get older it expands the library of games that they can play.

 

[catz]

36 minutes ago, bookbard said:

 

Yeah, we hated it. My kids were traumatised. It was so abusive. I don't know if a kid who doesn't watch TV could cope with the intensity of this - and there are lots of people arguing it turns child abuse into entertainment.

Ok - not everyone likes everything.  You do you.  Roald Dahl books are dark, the characters are OTT and plenty of parents don't like those either.  My kids ate them up.  This is a child that is familiar and likes the book and is interested in theater.  This movie version is based on the Broadway theater production.  I'd never recommend it for a kid that age who hasn't read the book.

I assume the OP will proceed as appropriate for her own child. 

[Shoeless]

@Pintosrock I think your daughter is just fine, despite the warnings about being "isolated". 🙄 She's out in the world, in a theater class with her peers. That isn't "isolation".  

There's growing evidence that social media like YouTube and TikTok is damaging to the mental health of young people, especially girls. I wouldn't be so fast to sign them up for those just to "fit in". 

My kid spent the afternoon at an enrichment class where they sometimes play movies in the background. The kids have liked Frozen, Rapunzel, and The Nightmare Before Christmas. The kids ranged in age from 8-14. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Shoeless

[000000000]

 

.

Edited November 24, 2023 by 000000000

[Ting Tang]

Yeah, we don’t have a tv now because we have been slow to finish our living room. We have new flooring but need to paint and buy new furniture. It does free up time. 🤷‍♀️ One thing we’re dealing with is watching kids get iPhones. My kids don’t have a need just yet (oldest is 11) but they feel left out. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Ting Tang

[Melissa Louise]

My memory of my first day at a new school, when I was 5, was being teased for not knowing who Superman was, so these dynamics have always played out.

We were no screens for a while, and then heavily curated screens, and then dd heard Lady Gaga playing at the gym, and it was all downhill from there. First Glee, then Merlin, and then the doors were open to all the media! Pretty sure ds had more mainstream exposure, earlier, due to being the baby, and also being Minecraft schooled...

Knowing the 'in' thing won't make an outsider feel like an insider, and not knowing won't disadvantage the socially savvy kids, IMO.

 

 

 

[Eos]

*

Edited June 29, 2023 by Eos

[wintermom]

14 hours ago, kathyl said:

I just had a flashback skimming through this thread.  When I was a (public schooled) kid, maybe preteens (?), 1960's, I was at my aunt's house in Baton Rouge.  She was late teens maybe.  She asked if I listened to Elvis.  I had NO clue what in the world she was talking about.  So she turned on her little record player and played me some Elvis.  🤣  I didn't like it despite her trying to get me to rave about it.  All I'd ever wanted to do was take piano lessons and that's the music I was familiar with and loved - Beethoven, Mozart, etc.

She seemed embarrassed or something, but I didn't care.  I knew what I liked and what I didn't like.  IOW, even as a kid I viewed it more as her problem than mine.  I found the whole thing very annoying.  🙄

I think people simply strive to make connections with others, be it through music, TV shows, movies, video games, food, etc. It doesn't mean you have to like the same things they like, or that there are judgements made if you've never heard about the thing. Having an open mind and curiosity about other people and the things they've experienced is a great way to build understanding, broaden one's own learning, and feel like one is part of a wider world. Travel and learning other languages does similar things.

Edited June 29, 2023 by wintermom

[Ausmumof3]

On 6/28/2023 at 11:18 AM, bookbard said:

Honestly, watching TV won't solve that problem - they're all into different things, and I don't know if most of them are picking it up from TV but from youtube. If you've got the choice, don't go down that road, it isn't worth it. 

Yep. Most of my kids I work with talk about YouTubers or characters in games they play, not so much movies or TV. I did buckle on a lot for reasons of friendship/social pressure because I was the weird kid with no TV and I didn’t want to do that to my kids. But honestly I’m not sure that it’s a net benefit.

[marbel]

8 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Knowing the 'in' thing won't make an outsider feel like an insider, and not knowing won't disadvantage the socially savvy kids, IMO.

 

Yeah. Thinking back on my own younger days - and granted that media was very different, but people are the same, I think - I watched all the TV shows, listened to all the music on the radio, had all the records thanks to my older siblings, went to the movies. I was still an outsider because of my own preferences. I liked to read, sew, and do embroidery and that made me a weirdo. It took me till adulthood to find my place in the world. I don't think this is all that unusual for many people, then or now. It's been the same with my kids- well, they found their people in college. My husband had one best friend all his life but he also fit in with the geek crowd so cultural savviness was not a big factor in his life. Certainly we didn't click because we watched the same TV shows, though we did used to sing the theme from "Beverly Hillbillies" to our baby son when he was upset (he found it strangely calming) so I guess there is that. 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by marbel

[wisdomandtreasures]

8 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Knowing the 'in' thing won't make an outsider feel like an insider, and not knowing won't disadvantage the socially savvy kids, IMO

This! 

[Heartstrings]

8 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

nowing the 'in' thing won't make an outsider feel like an insider, and not knowing won't disadvantage the socially savvy kids, IMO.

It can help ease things for the kid who struggles socially though.  We can’t guarantee that our kids will be socially savvy. 

[KungFuPanda]

Whenever I read these threads I am reminded that my definition of "We didn't have TV" is very dated.  I always think it means "we didn't watch any shows on any screens."  I'm always reminded that there are people who "didn't have TV" but watched netflix or youtube or DVDs or everything out there, but on a computer or phone.  The times in my life when I "didn't have television" I literally had no screens to watch where I lived.  My kids went without cable before streaming for years, but they had access to VHS and DVDs at home or the library so it wouldn't occur to me to say that they "didn't have TV."

[Jean in Newcastle]

I grew up in a different country, with vastly different tv shows, popular musical artists etc and didn’t find it that difficult to fit in culturally when I came to this country. (What was difficult for me was counting money and other random things that caught me off guard.). I listened a lot. I asked questions. Most people enjoy talking about themselves and like telling you about their favorite tv show or musical artist. I was never required to chime in with my own memories of Spongebob (which as I have stated upthread, I have never watched). What is required is not “yucking someone’s yum” or putting them down for liking something that you don’t find appealing.  
 

I think that the OP’s situation is a bit more complicated because it’s specifically about playing Charades as a theater exercise. I don’t blame the teacher for thinking that that might be a low stakes way to explore playing a character. But it has put a spotlight on recognizing characters within a “cultural canon “ that you don’t find just hanging out with people. Perhaps the OP could find a trivia game related to tv . movie and book characters where she could gain a basic exposure. It doesn’t require watching all of them. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Jean in Newcastle
Autocorrect

[SKL]

22 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Whenever I read these threads I am reminded that my definition of "We didn't have TV" is very dated.  I always think it means "we didn't watch any shows on any screens."  I'm always reminded that there are people who "didn't have TV" but watched netflix or youtube or DVDs or everything out there, but on a computer or phone.  The times in my life when I "didn't have television" I literally had no screens to watch where I lived.  My kids went without cable before streaming for years, but they had access to VHS and DVDs at home or the library so it wouldn't occur to me to say that they "didn't have TV."

Yeah, for us, what we didn't do was sit in front of the box and let remote people decide what was going to happen next.  No obnoxious commercials, and if there was obnoxious language or behavior, it was my choice and timing (and with my commentary).

Personally, I stopped watching TV long before my kids were born.  My mental state improved greatly as a result.  So I didn't see the point in getting my kids started on the annoying parts.

[mathmarm]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:17 PM, Pintosrock said:

About 6 years ago, we took the tv out of the living room. My kid (age 9) spends her free time reading,  playing and making lots of art. Success,  right? Nooooo...

My kid signed up for a theater class this summer,  which she LOVES. The problem is they end every class with a game like charades, except you talk to give clues. Since she doesn't watch TV, my kid is TERRIBLE at guessing the other kids' characters. Today, she decided to be Matilda, which no one, not even the teacher could guess (but her clues were very obvious, if you've read Roald Dahl). 

My kid has asked to bring the TV back out and be allowed to watch shows/movies. So, what are all the popular things kids are watching? Frozen and Toy Story and ??? I'm so clueless and out of the loop. Help!

Don't panic OP!

Remember that there's a difference between cultural literacy and pop-Cultural literacy.

In our homeschool, we actually make the effort to transmit Cultural Literacy, and to that end we consciously include a combination of language (understanding idioms, vocabulary, understanding/Identifying accents) food (knowing (or just knowing of) favorite dishes/snacks (and the traditions around them--ie candycanes during Xmas, hotdogs on the 4th of July, etc ) past times (knowing or just knowing of) favorite past times which includes sports, games, songs, stories, shows and movies, books) historic and geographic knowledge (knowing Cultural heroes and their basic contributions, geographical landmarks, etc) dances (recognizing or performing them, lots of Americans recognize the Moon walk and The Hokey-Pokey but few can execute them) celebrations (we celebrate some National holidays and teach the history behind many others that we don't celebrate) customs/manners/behaviors and we talk about customs and manners in other parts of the world as a nice contrast.

The vast majority of my kids knowledge and experience with POP Culture TV shows/movies/characters come from Tie-In Books that we borrow from the library. We don't run out and watch each new kids movie as it appears and they don't watch the shows. But we do pick up the Movie-Books from the library and read them. We will often purchase the sound tracks to popular kids movies so that they know the songs too. Our kids will often learn to draw the characters just because they want too. So even without having seen the show/movie they know the characters, the plot and the sound track well enough to participate in small talk about them if they needed to. However, I don't think that my kids really talk about TV/Movies with their friends. If they do, then not often. For our kids the biggest "gap" has been in toys/video games. We don't allow video games, so my kids can read a book about it and learn to draw the characters if they want, but they have to ultimately say "I don't have one." or "My parents won't let us play those video games" when kids ask them for their names on the games.

Also, we don't buy any of the franchised toys. So whatever the "in" toy is, they see it in the story, they can interact with in Demo Mode in the box, but we don't ever buy Movie/Show merchandise and by now they know that.

If I decided to purposely include some Kids Pop Culture I would start by doing some research on the most popular kids programs and movies for the 2010s and 2020s. I wouldn't just bring out the TV, but once I knew which 2-5 shows and which movies I was going to let my kid watch, I would do research and I would prewatch some of the worst episodes of each show so that I know the worst that my child might be exposed to in any franchise that I had selected and decide if that's something I'm willing to introduce the best of. If so, once I knew what show I was bringing into my kids life, I would pre-select "best episodes" from those shows for my child and/or "best arcs" from a season of the shows that I was comfortable with for my child at their current stage.

I would not let my child watch shows that are still airing, because, again, I don't have the ability to view the Best and Worst of the show to make an informed decision as the parent.

 

[SKL]

And I try to teach my kids that the way to have a good conversation with a potential friend is to ask them about things they would be interested in.  When you don't know someone at all, you ask general questions about what their interests and relationships are (do you play any games or sports, do you have siblings), and go from there.

It wouldn't work with charades, but honestly, lots of people don't do well at charades for lots of reasons.  It doesn't mean they can't make friends.

Edited June 29, 2023 by SKL

[marbel]

18 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

What is required is not “yucking someone’s yum” or putting them down for liking something that you don’t find appealing.  

Agreed. Too bad so many adults can't even get that right. 🙄  And thus are not passing that "skill" on to their kids.

[heartlikealion]

Maybe the game is the problem, not the kids LOL For one, I think charades would be hard even if you do know the shows/movies. 

My 8 yr old mostly watches YouTube. And I can't stand half the YouTubers because so many are obnoxious either with their voices, sound effects, or lights/images. A lot of the videos are reaction videos, but some are art or other things. She has access to Disney Plus and Netflix etc at dad's house and last I checked she was into Amphibia, Owl House, and (against my wishes - it's rated MA) Little Demon. So, I have no idea if she'd do well with that game, either! 

If it's any consolation, when I attend trivia night I feel like an idiot half the time because my team knows more of the impressive stuff. I'm more reliable for the tv category lol. 

[teachermom2834]

Specifically about the Matilda story- sometimes kids are just dumb and that is the only explanation. Her example was fine and relevant.

When I was growing up we were not allowed to watch TV and then we would play TV tag or have some class project where we had to say our favorite TV show and it was just awful so I get the issue. But I think kids today watch too many different things. There used to be three basic channels. Everyone was watching the same thing. Now the possibilities are endless. My dd is 15 yo now and we have limited media and she definitely doesn’t keep up with YouTubers or anime or IG influencers so she doesn’t know a lot of stuff. But she has been exposed to enough to give her some touch points through the years - Star Wars, Marvel movies, Harry Potter, Broadway shows, Disney movies. Those are more universally recognized than any particular TV shows I think. 
 

Recently we have been watching Young Sheldon. That show is fun for all the cultural references of the last 20 years. I’m constantly explaining things to her. So not exactly current but a good catch up of relatively recent times for a slightly older kid. 
 

I think there is a balance here. My boys watched a lot of sports so that gave them a lot of common ground in addition to things like popular movies and also video games which my girl isn’t into.

I will say sometimes my dd is willfully obtuse. She claims she hasn’t been exposed to things she has. We have been listening to top 40 radio since she was born and we spend a lot of time in the car (older siblings and I was trying to expose them to popular things so they weren’t clueless). Less than a year ago she claimed she couldn’t name a Taylor Swift song and when the Super Bowl was on she said she had never heard of Rhianna. When she says these things in public it makes me crazy! 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

aybe the game is the problem, not the kids LOL For one, I think charades would be hard even if you do know the shows/movies

I hate charades.   Its nonsensical to me. I can’t guess and I can’t give clues.  And I couldn't possibly think of a way to communicate Matilda in charades form.  
 

My husband has gotten good at my version of charades.  “That guy from the show, that one show, about the thing.  No, the other thing.”   🤣. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Heartstrings

[wendyroo]

When I was a kid I was socially out of touch with my peers, but that was because I was a nerdy introvert, not because my parents sheltered me or had strict screen limits. I just had no interest in the shows that my classmates were watching - and they wouldn't be caught dead watching what I liked. Once I was at MIT it turned out I had just the right kinds of cultural knowledge to fit in with my new peer group.

I think my kids have it easier because there are so many more entertainment options out there, and they can normally find at least a couple peers that enjoy some of the same "culture". It helps that unlike my public school experience, where I was just grouped with random other n-year-olds, my kids tend to participate in interest based activities. At programming camp they are much more likely to find others who know and enjoy Mark Rober videos, and at comic book drawing club they have peers who enjoy My Hero Academia (and are just as clueless about mainstream culture as my kids).

[YaelAldrich]

On 6/28/2023 at 10:59 PM, Petrova Fossil said:

An additional thought @Pintosrock—if you want her to see good movies, try showing her the classics you liked in your own childhood. I bet many of them are still popular today—look at things like Indiana Jones, ET, Back to the Future, Star Wars.

My only cultural touchstone is The Matrix. I think I did just fine among the Justin-whatshisname-heads. 😉

I would NOT do this without previewing the movie first! We got some eye opening moments when we loaded up Goonies. I don't know if movies got more prudish as we got older but that's how it seems. 

[MagistraKennedy]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:45 PM, Petrova Fossil said:

No advice, but a word of consolation…

You have NOT screwed your kid over.

She will grow up to be a literate, well-educated person who will overhaul her peers in cultural literacy—that is to say, REAL culture.

Not to mention that a lot of popular movies and shows, even those ostensibly for kids, are bilge.

Standing up and applauding --- I completely agree.