Anyone waiting for this docuseries? Shiny Happy People

[dirty ethel rackham]

I haven't seen this discussed here ... This came across one of my social media feeds.  Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets.  It's on Amazon Prime Video coming out June 2.  Anyone planning on watching? 

 

[itsheresomewhere]

Let me just say how proud I am of Jill doing this.  I hope this helps her on her journey.

None of those featured in this are paid. That speaks a lot to me. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I was just about to come here and post about it.  Emily Anderson is also interviewed in this and posted today that she feels it’s thorough and very well done.

No one was paid anything but travel expenses.

[katilac]

I will definitely watch. 

[Annie G]

Definitely planning to watch.  I hope this advances Jill’s efforts to get past the damage caused by her parents following IBLP. 

[MercyA]

Looks good. Thanks for the heads up!

[TravelingChris]

Thanks for the info

  Looki g forwRd to it

[Elizabeth86]

I’m sure I will.

[Mothersweets]

I'm planning on watching!!

[ktgrok]

somehow I missed that Jill actually was part of it. I'm glad. I dislike greatly the new cult she has found herself in, but I hope she continues her journey, and I think she will. 

That fast clip of a fake kid being beaten with a stick was so upsetting that I'm not sure I'll be able to watch the whole thing. I get a visceral reaction to that kind of thing. It's why I stopped going to our state homeschool convention - there were booths selling posters where you could indicate which infractions got how many whacks with a wooden spoon, with little laminated wooden spoons to put by each one. I nearly puked. 

[Annie G]

@ktgrok I get confused whether IBLP and the Pearls were somehow linked. I never knew any IBLP families when we homeschooled but there were  definitely some who followed the Pearls as far as discipline went. Did IBLP have detailed discipline instruction? Was it very similar to the Pearls?  In any case, it was awful and I’m like you- I’m not sure I can watch that part even though it’s demonstrated with a doll. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Annie G said:

@ktgrok I get confused whether IBLP and the Pearls were somehow linked. I never knew any IBLP families when we homeschooled but there were  definitely some who followed the Pearls as far as discipline went. Did IBLP have detailed discipline instruction? Was it very similar to the Pearls?  In any case, it was awful and I’m like you- I’m not sure I can watch that part even though it’s demonstrated with a doll. 

I think followers of both ran in the same circles. I don't know that there were any official ties, but my understanding is that the principals were the same, and the books of the pearls were consumed by those following IBLP. 

[Annie G]

Since we have a few days before the show drops, I wonder what you guys think about ‘blame’ as far as the parents who followed IBLP.  Adults  join cults and get caught up in things and many are brainwashed and truly don’t realize their beliefs are toxic. But on the other hand, if I was a Duggar, especially an older girl, I think I would have a hard time not being angry with my parents for how I was raised.  Jessa, Jinger, and Jill have clearly left Gothard’s teachings behind, yet  they don’t publicly criticize/blame their parents. 
 

*I know there are folks who think the girls have just moved laterally to different but similar religious beliefs. I don’t know enough about those to comment. I’m just wondering about the time period when they were living with their parents.

[itsheresomewhere]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

somehow I missed that Jill actually was part of it. I'm glad. I dislike greatly the new cult she has found herself in, but I hope she continues her journey, and I think she will. 

That fast clip of a fake kid being beaten with a stick was so upsetting that I'm not sure I'll be able to watch the whole thing. I get a visceral reaction to that kind of thing. It's why I stopped going to our state homeschool convention - there were booths selling posters where you could indicate which infractions got how many whacks with a wooden spoon, with little laminated wooden spoons to put by each one. I nearly puked. 

It is Jinger who is part of the new cult not Jill. And Jinger is not part of this.  

[ktgrok]

21 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

It is Jinger who is part of the new cult not Jill. And Jinger is not part of this.  

OH! Thank you, you are right! One of my kids is puking today and I'm not as on top of things as I'd like to think, I guess! Although, in my defense, they DO all have names that start with the same letter, lol. But truly, I did know that it was Jinger, not Jill, that was in MacArthur land. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

It seems interesting but probably not since I never followed or watched Duggars in the first place and the little I know about them is from here. I don’t think I’d get the context 😜

[katilac]

40 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

It seems interesting but probably not since I never followed or watched Duggars in the first place and the little I know about them is from here. I don’t think I’d get the context 😜

That's the great thing about documentaries; they provide the context! 

I have little to no context for most documentaries I watch. Like I know nothing about baseball and had no idea who Terry Donahue was, but A Secret Love was still amazing to watch. I actually love documentaries for that reason. 

I think this one would be easy to follow if it interests you. 

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

On 5/21/2023 at 5:50 PM, Ann.without.an.e said:

It seems interesting but probably not since I never followed or watched Duggars in the first place and the little I know about them is from here. I don’t think I’d get the context 😜

While the Duggars are the "hook" for this docuseries, it is my understanding that they are not the only people featured.  It is more about IBLP and other high-control religions and their influence on politics and culture.  

[Faith-manor]

On 5/21/2023 at 3:08 PM, Annie G said:

Since we have a few days before the show drops, I wonder what you guys think about ‘blame’ as far as the parents who followed IBLP.  Adults  join cults and get caught up in things and many are brainwashed and truly don’t realize their beliefs are toxic. But on the other hand, if I was a Duggar, especially an older girl, I think I would have a hard time not being angry with my parents for how I was raised.  Jessa, Jinger, and Jill have clearly left Gothard’s teachings behind, yet  they don’t publicly criticize/blame their parents. 
 

*I know there are folks who think the girls have just moved laterally to different but similar religious beliefs. I don’t know enough about those to comment. I’m just wondering about the time period when they were living with their parents.

We all have to own what we have done unless we are cognitively unable to do so. Yup. They chose to join a cult. But they are not without the cognitive ability to see abuse, to understand trauma, and what their children have suffered due to their choices. Just because they do not WANT go acknowledge it, doesn't mean they are absolved.

So they have blame to endure in spades. They may never admit it, but those two have a lot to answer for.

Jill will probably come out and actually heap it on her parents. I know one of the women interviewed for this docuseries, and I know another who they began to interview, and she realized she couldn't do it, she is still not healed enough. she couldn't stop crying, just no composure. I feel so bad for her. Both of these women have indicated that they believe Jill is going to speak the unvarnished truth from her perspective, so bye bye relationship with parents. 

I cannot out the identity of these women. It is their story to tell, and how I know them is not important. Suffice it to say that my experiences with IBLP would fill a book, and I only endured it for 3 years as a teen before running away and living with my aunt and uncle, people I will love and cherish forever who helped me get into college at 16, kept me pursuing my music and piano skills, and helped me begin healing from the crazy. But, IBLP didn't entirely end for me there because I continued to be a part of protesting it which included being part of the group who successfully opposed Gothard opening a youth training center in the old Hyatt Regency in Flint, Mi. So I kept meeting IBLP survivors from all over the place. We also lived in Indianapolis, Mark and I, for a time, and I met IBLP survivors from that area as well.

Anyway, I am watching it mostly for my sister who will have a major panic attack if she watches it. I will summarize it for her, and answer her questions. If any of you have questions about IBLP, feel free to ask.

Trigger warning:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and Pearls went hand in hand with IBLP for several years. Gothard thought they were the bomb, and so they were invited to IBLP events to speak. Makes me want to puke just thinking about it. Where they differed was that Pearl thought it was okay to adopt orphans from other countries in order to beat the devil out of them and beat the Jesus into them. But Gothard was 100% against adoption because he figured god must have smote the parents for good reason, and that the sins of the fathers are visited down so therefore, adoptees are demon possessed. Best not bring them into your home was his motto.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Faith-manor
Typo

[Spryte]

Oh dear.

Am I the only one who opened this thread expecting a docuseries about R.E.M.?

[MercyA]

8 hours ago, Spryte said:

Oh dear.

Am I the only one who opened this thread expecting a docuseries about R.E.M.?

No. 🙂 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I can remember the Pearls’ hand drawn advertisement in some of the magazines my mom received that would have been popular among the IBLP crowd as well.  It was a horse and buggy and back then they advertised that they learned all their child rearing methods from the Amish and Mennonites.

It was all interwoven together.

[Faith-manor]

22 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I can remember the Pearls’ hand drawn advertisement in some of the magazines my mom received that would have been popular among the IBLP crowd as well.  It was a horse and buggy and back then they advertised that they learned all their child rearing methods from the Amish and Mennonites.

It was all interwoven together.

Yup. So when people say to me "The Amish are peaceful, gentle people", I just laugh. Uhh no they are not. They are abusers,  prolific abusers. Blanket training came from them. Slapping and pinching babies came from them. Beating children into submission, a tale as old as tike, is common among them as is covering up s&x abuse and incest. They are no better than the rest of the abusing people in the world, just somehow cute in their costumes driving buggies which apparently has snowed a lot of people into thinking they are an okay cult.

Cults are bad. All of them. Cults are inherently abusive; it is how they maintain their order. Same old same old.

[DawnM]

Oh my gosh, yes!   I can't wait.

[Katy]

Definitely watching.

[pinball]

20 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

I know one of the women interviewed for this docuseries, and I know another who they began to interview, and she realized she couldn't do it, she is still not healed enough. she couldn't stop crying, just no composure. I feel so bad for her. Both of these women have indicated that they believe Jill is going to speak the unvarnished truth from her perspective, so bye bye relationship with parents. 

I cannot out the identity of these women. It is their story to tell, and how I know them is not important.

Wow, I wonder if you know the women I know!!

Small world

[MercyA]

11 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Yup. So when people say to me "The Amish are peaceful, gentle people", I just laugh. Uhh no they are not. They are abusers,  prolific abusers. Blanket training came from them. Slapping and pinching babies came from them. Beating children into submission, a tale as old as tike, is common among them as is covering up s&x abuse and incest. They are no better than the rest of the abusing people in the world, just somehow cute in their costumes driving buggies which apparently has snowed a lot of people into thinking they are an okay cult.

Cults are bad. All of them. Cults are inherently abusive; it is how they maintain their order. Same old same old.

Well, in all fairness, it depends on the Amish family. I know some lovely, joyful, kind, generous Amish people.

On the other hand, I've heard terrible stories from my MIL about her Amish childhood. She and her sisters were told that if they didn't have their coverings on when Jesus came back, they would go to hell. They were afraid their night coverings would slip off while they were sleeping. 😞 She would absolutely say the Amish church is a cult and she left it in her 20's.

I'm not a fan of the Amish puppy mills around here, either. 😠

However, some Amish people are truly good people in spite of the cultish teachings of their church. And I think that's true of most if not all religious groups.

 

[itsheresomewhere]

23 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

We all have to own what we have done unless we are cognitively unable to do so. Yup. They chose to join a cult. But they are not without the cognitive ability to see abuse, to understand trauma, and what their children have suffered due to their choices. Just because they do not WANT go acknowledge it, doesn't mean they are absolved.

So they have blame to endure in spades. They may never admit it, but those two have a lot to answer for.

Jill will probably come out and actually heap it on her parents. I know one of the women interviewed for this docuseries, and I know another who they began to interview, and she realized she couldn't do it, she is still not healed enough. she couldn't stop crying, just no composure. I feel so bad for her. Both of these women have indicated that they believe Jill is going to speak the unvarnished truth from her perspective, so bye bye relationship with parents. 

I cannot out the identity of these women. It is their story to tell, and how I know them is not important. Suffice it to say that my experiences with IBLP would fill a book, and I only endured it for 3 years as a teen before running away and living with my aunt and uncle, people I will love and cherish forever who helped me get into college at 16, kept me pursuing my music and piano skills, and helped me begin healing from the crazy. But, IBLP didn't entirely end for me there because I continued to be a part of protesting it which included being part of the group who successfully opposed Gothard opening a youth training center in the old Hyatt Regency in Flint, Mi. So I kept meeting IBLP survivors from all over the place. We also lived in Indianapolis, Mark and I, for a time, and I met IBLP survivors from that area as well.

Anyway, I am watching it mostly for my sister who will have a major panic attack if she watches it. I will summarize it for her, and answer her questions. If any of you have questions about IBLP, feel free to ask.

Trigger warning:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and Pearls went hand in hand with IBLP for several years. Gothard thought they were the bomb, and so they were invited to IBLP events to speak. Makes me want to like just thinking about it. Where they differed was that Pearl thought it was okay to adopt orphans from other countries in order to beat the devil out of them and beat the Jesus into them. But Gothard was 100% against adoption because he figured god must have amore the parents for good reason, and that the sins of the fathers are visited down so therefore, adoptees are demon possessed. Best not bring them into your home was his motto.

From some of the leaked parts- Jill is telling a lot.  Her therapist is helping her so much. 

[HomeAgain]

On 5/21/2023 at 3:08 PM, Annie G said:

Since we have a few days before the show drops, I wonder what you guys think about ‘blame’ as far as the parents who followed IBLP.  Adults  join cults and get caught up in things and many are brainwashed and truly don’t realize their beliefs are toxic. But on the other hand, if I was a Duggar, especially an older girl, I think I would have a hard time not being angry with my parents for how I was raised.

The thing with cults is there is a wiring in the brain or genetic code that makes it more likely that certain people will join them. If it is genetic, and this is all they've known, AND it's what they've been taught is the right path even with the "stumbling" of others.......I don't think anger is the right emotion or connection most of the Duggars will ever have in their lifetimes.  I think Jill getting a therapist was one of the top things she could have done to change her life and validate her real feelings during her experience.  This is a cult where a cheerful countenance is priority, where individualism isn't allowed after a certain point. That's a really, really big thing to work through and it needs support from someone in their lives if they're going to even begin.  Derrick might not be great, but he's at great as he can be for Jill.  I don't see the other girls getting that initial support.  Ever.

There are several former IBLP kids and the like on Homeschool Recovery.  They are floundering.  They were purposefully undereducated and left without vital skills, have no idea how to take care of themselves because that wasn't the plan, and feel so stuck in their lives.  But they also don't know different except that there is a different that exists. Bewilderment is more of a common emotion until they really get away, and then it becomes anger.

[Faith-manor]

I want to warn everyone that an Amazon tv critic on reddit has said that if you are easily triggered by abuse and cult tactics, it might be good to NOT watch the docuseries.

I just wanted to throw that out there because I would hate for anyone here to have a bad experience.

I am watching it in order to summarize for my sis. I am also doing it with my dear husband and a long island iced tea, one episode at a time. Breaks as needed. Thank goodness for streaming. It makes it so much easier to manage how and when to engage with difficult content.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I want to warn everyone that an Amazon tv critic on reddit has said that if you are easily triggered by abuse and cult tactics, it might be good to NOT watch the docuseries.

I just wanted to throw that out there because I would hate for anyone here to have a bad experience.

I am watching it in order to summarize for my sis. I am also doing it with my dear husband and a long island iced tea, one episode at a time. Breaks as needed. Thank goodness for streaming. It makes it so much easier to manage how and when to engage with difficult content.

Yup, there will be medicinal substances involved if I watch. 

[Ting Tang]

I will try to watch this. None of it will shock me. By the way, there are so many cults, it's almost unbelievable how people fall for things.  I remember going to a church with a boyfriend at the time, and I really thought it was wacky and a potential cult.  Thankfully his own mother said he was not ready for what I was looking for (God rest her soul because she passed away).  There was something about the church leaders being God. I can't even remember which one it was, but I'd never even heard of it, and I was like...nope! 

[prairiewindmomma]

It’s joyfully available on Amazon!

[katilac]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

It’s joyfully available on Amazon!

Why did you tell me this?? I'm supposed to watch it with one of my dds tomorrow. Maybe I can delete from the watch history, lol. 

[prairiewindmomma]

You can hold off. FAmy will drive you nuts in episode one. 

[katilac]

8 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

It’s joyfully available on Amazon!

I was so caught up in it being available a day early that I missed your wonderful joyfully available 😅

Edited June 2, 2023 by katilac

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

6 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

You can hold off. FAmy will drive you nuts in episode one. 

I was worried about that since I saw she was in it.  I don’t know if it’s just perception or not, but she really comes across as just trying to jump on whatever bandwagon will bring her the most attention at the time.

[itsheresomewhere]

If you have heard about this( not sure it has been release yet in the series)- who do you think wrote the text messages to Derrick?  Jessa, JB or Michelle?   Honestly, I wouldn’t put it past all three.  Whoever it was, what an ego. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I got through the first episode.

JB is a schmuck.

Derick is the best thing that ever happened to Jill.

Amy’s still annoying.

I am so glad my parents’ fundie IBLP homeschool mentors in the 80s were just weird enough that my dad decided Gothard was a joke.  Even though they incorporated some of his teachings(like music with a beat was of satan) for way too long, and remained close friends with IBLP families, they had definite opinions of Gothard and his cult. And those were not good opinions.  I can’t even imagine how much that protected me from, and I wonder how much having college educated parents helped with that.

Just some musings.

[prairiewindmomma]

Episode 2: domestic violence and marital rape discussion warning from around the 37 minute mark to around the 43 minute mark

[Faith-manor]

First long island iced tea consumed. Alcohol was definitely appropriate. Sigh. I have thoughts. But, even though I have healed so much, it still felt very, very visceral. I can't do a second episode tonight. I also am not yet ready to discuss my thoughts tonight or answer questions. I will try to pull it together soon.

I do have a wedding to prepare for, dear honorary daughter and fiance`. I may not watch episode 2 until next week so that I don't get into some sort of funk going into what should be a lovely celebration of two people we love very much.

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

If you have heard about this( not sure it has been release yet in the series)- who do you think wrote the text messages to Derrick?  Jessa, JB or Michelle?   Honestly, I wouldn’t put it past all three.  Whoever it was, what an ego. 

I think it was Jim Bob.

[itsheresomewhere]

25 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I think it was Jim Bob.

That or Jessa.  Both give me the same vibes.

[Heartstrings]

I’ve heard that Episode 4 goes into detail on some of the images that put Josh in jail, right at the 4 min mark, if anyone prefers to skip ahead there.  

[popmom]

I'm watching right now--just finished the first episode. It hasn't been anything earth shattering yet. I have to disagree with Bobye Holt's characterization of Wheaton College as "the Harvard for fundamentalists". Nope, nope. lol  I know several Wheaton grads. They absolutely do NOT fit the fundamentalist mold. Everyone I know who attended Wheaton would be considered very liberal to a "fundamentalist". Just wanted to make a note of that. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by popmom

[Ginevra]

3 hours ago, popmom said:

I'm watching right now--just finished the first episode. It hasn't been anything earth shattering yet. I have to disagree with Bobye Holt's characterization of Wheaton College as "the Harvard for fundamentalists". Nope, nope. lol  I know several Wheaton grads. They absolutely do NOT fit the fundamentalist mold. Everyone I know who attended Wheaton would be considered very liberal to a "fundamentalist". Just wanted to make a note of that. 

This was what I thought. I would rather have more Jill, or another Dugger as well. I did think it was interesting that the Holt’s accurately called his “plan” to get J married off to their daughter so his nasty h@rny habits would be legitimized. I didn’t know it went down like that; I thought the Holts were naive of what was really going on until much later. 

[EKS]

Can someone please explain to me the difference between a cult and a regular religion? 

Is it that with a regular religion the cult-like aspect of it is further in the past?

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, popmom said:

I'm watching right now--just finished the first episode. It hasn't been anything earth shattering yet. I have to disagree with Bobye Holt's characterization of Wheaton College as "the Harvard for fundamentalists". Nope, nope. lol  I know several Wheaton grads. They absolutely do NOT fit the fundamentalist mold. Everyone I know who attended Wheaton would be considered very liberal to a "fundamentalist". Just wanted to make a note of that. 

I think in Bobye's limited, IBLP world, the only thing they know is " Billy Graham went to school there" so they truly believe her characterization of the school. She doesn't have enough experience to realize this. When she and her husband speak, I still hear "sheltered, naive, no experience outside their own church" people yammering. And if they knew anything at all, they would know that conservative Baptists have three "Ivies". Liberty U, Penscola Christian College, and Bob Jones U. Slightly less strict Baptists often send their kids to Cedar bills and Grove. But, since they have been steeped in IBLP, and education is a no no. They do not even know where Wheaton falls on the spectrum, and that theologically, it is exponentially " not baptist", philosophically more aligned with C.S. Lewis and similar.

[maize]

4 hours ago, EKS said:

Can someone please explain to me the difference between a cult and a regular religion? 

Is it that with a regular religion the cult-like aspect of it is further in the past?

Since many religions seem to be started by charismatic figures who are viewed as speaking for God, I do think that most religions look like what we view as cults within the first generation of their founding. 

Religions that survive past a generation or two tend to become more codified, with leadership more diffuse, less focused on a single human personality. 

I've thought about this often. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by maize

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

6 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I think in Bobye's limited, IBLP world, the only thing they know is " Billy Graham went to school there" so they truly believe her characterization of the school. She doesn't have enough experience to realize this. When she and her husband speak, I still hear "sheltered, naive, no experience outside their own church" people yammering. And if they knew anything at all, they would know that conservative Baptists have three "Ivies". Liberty U, Penscola Christian College, and Bob Jones U. Slightly less strict Baptists often send their kids to Cedar bills and Grove. But, since they have been steeped in IBLP, and education is a no no. They do not even know where Wheaton falls on the spectrum, and that theologically, it is exponentially " not baptist", philosophically more aligned with C.S. Lewis and similar.

I finished a master’s degree two years ago from Liberty U and was honestly shocked—there was next to no religion in my classes(the occasional Bible verse that they wanted you to throw into the discussion, but recognizing that not everyone taking the classes was Christian you could substitute whatever religious text you used) and that many of my classmates had no religion or non-western religions. PCC and Hyles Anderson were always the favorite of the IFB church school grads I knew(few of them homeschooled back then) and the IBLP kids in general didn’t go to college.

To be fair though, most of the families we knew had left IBLP by the time their kids were graduating high school.  The only family I knew well who did Wisdom Booklets/ATI must have done other schoolwork on the down low, because 3/6 kids have gone on for graduate STEM degrees without an issue, including the oldest daughter.