Kids getting first apartments, sigh

[Hilltopmom]

Dd, 20, is intent on getting an apartment by herself that she cannot afford. She could move in with friends, but wants her own place. She’s stubborn and think she’s knows everything. “I’ll just get a second job”.

She has learning disabilities and doesn’t quite grasp how much stuff costs. 
Just sat down to look at the numbers with her and she’ll be short a few hundred each month. Without any extra spending like fast food, clothes, make up, etc

She won’t listen to me and is going to sign a lease. I’m half tempted to call the realtor and tell them she can’t afford it and they’ll get stiffed the rent eventually. 
At this point I think the only thing I can really do is just watch it unfold. I told her that we won’t help with the rent and neither will her grandparents. I think she just needs to learn the hard way.

There are a few other issues- she doesn’t have a license yet and thinks her co workers are always going to be happy to pick her up.

It’s a train wreck I can see coming 😞

ETA- she lives at home right now and does not need to move out. I get wanting to grow up but this is not going to work.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Hilltopmom

[pinball]

1 minute ago, Hilltopmom said:

Dd, 20, is intent on getting an apartment by herself that she cannot afford. She could move in with friends, but wants her own place. She’s stubborn and think she’s knows everything. “I’ll just get a second job”.

She has learning disabilities and doesn’t quite grasp how much stuff costs. 
Just sat down to look at the numbers with her and she’ll be short a few hundred each month. Without any extra spending like fast food, clothes, make up, etc

She won’t listen to me and is going to sign a lease. I’m half tempted to call the realtor and tell them she can’t afford it and they’ll get stiffed the rent eventually. 
At this point I think the only thing I can really do is just watch it unfold. I told her that we won’t help with the rent and neither will her grandparents. I think she just needs to learn the hard way.

There are a few other issues- she doesn’t have a license yet and thinks her co workers are always going to be happy to pick her up.

It’s a train wreck I can see coming 😞

 

This sounds a lot more complicated than “kids getting their first apartment”

maybe she won’t pass the credit check?

tough situation!

[Jaybee]

Ugh. It's so hard, isn't it?

[Hilltopmom]

Just now, pinball said:

This sounds a lot more complicated than “kids getting their first apartment”

maybe she won’t pass the credit check?

tough situation!

The realtor already sent her the lease to sign!

[Ottakee]

If her budget is that tight likely they won’t rent to her as around here rent can’t be more than 1/3 of your income.

[Jaybee]

Just now, Hilltopmom said:

The realtor already sent her the lease to sign!

That's really strange, because when we leased an apartment as late middle-aged adults, we had to show all kinds of stuff like proof of income, etc.

[Pawz4me]

AFAIK all the apartments around here require income of at least three times the monthly rent before they'll approve a lease.

[Corraleno]

I'm so sorry. I've got a kid who needs to learn most lessons the hard way, too, and it's tough to watch. I did end up paying to get her out of a lease when she begged to come back home, and at least now she has a more realistic idea of the true cost of adulting (plus a better idea of what a lazy bum her boyfriend is). Not that that means she's dumped the boyfriend or gotten better about saving money. <eyeroll>  But there's not much that we, as parents, can do other than cross our fingers and hope their frontal cortex eventually catches up!

[Hilltopmom]

She did have to sent a pay stub. But no one could think she can afford it!

[cjzimmer1]

I'm shocked they aren't asking for a co-signer if this is her first apartment.  DS moved out last year,  He could afford 50% more in rent than he is currently paying and still be comfortable.  He had a credit score in the mid 700's and he STILL needed a co-signer because he didn't have rental history.  Around here there is such demand for apartments that they are super picky about applicants.  If your daughter's budget is that tight, I'm truly suprised they are even giving her a chance.

[KungFuPanda]

Can she even cough up first and last month’s rent? The rental market is so competitive right now. I’ll be shocked if she can land a place if her income isn’t high enough. 

[Katy]

Call the realtor or her boss and raise hell. It can’t be legal in any state. 

[Faith-manor]

Maybe the fine print on the lease is pending I come verification and credit check. Sometimes that happens here. The property manager wants to tie up the potential tenant, but has an out if they think that person won be able to pay rent, especially of they think the tenant might be super responsible and not damage the place. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Faith-manor
Typo

[marbel]

I too am shocked that it seems so easy for her to rent. My daughter moved into a house with 3 friends, each of them had to have a credit check run and show proof of employment/income. The deposit total was enormous (to me, who last rented an apartment in about 1991). First and last months, and a security/cleaning deposit. 

Is she signing a lease now, or permission to do a credit check? Or maybe it is contingent. 

[pinball]

6 minutes ago, Katy said:

Call the realtor or her boss and raise hell. It can’t be legal in any state. 

Where do you even come up with stuff like this?

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

25 minutes ago, Katy said:

Call the realtor or her boss and raise hell. It can’t be legal in any state. 

I don’t know where they live or if it’s state dependent, but it’s all completely up to the owner here. I know people who have rented apartments without a credit check or first/last month’s deposit because it wasn’t required by the owner.  We are landlords and didn’t require any of that; we just did a month to month lease, but it was a specific circumstance.  But the rental and real estate market isn’t hot everywhere, and someplaces may have landlords that just want it rented.

I don’t know where OP lives or if that’s the case there, but the renting market here has way more apartments than people looking to rent right now and landlords are relaxing requirements due to that.

[marbel]

32 minutes ago, Katy said:

Call the realtor or her boss and raise hell. It can’t be legal in any state. 

What does her boss have to do with it?  And what is happening that is illegal? 

[Ann.without.an.e]

This is so hard. DS went through that stage and I’m so glad I was able to talk him out of it. He said he needed it in order to grow, but I knew it would be too tight financially. Thankfully he decided against it and I’m extra glad because he broke his back a few months later and was out of work for three months. 

I was clear with DS:

You have room and board here and that is what we offer you so we will not bail you out if you can’t make rent.

We will no longer help with medical expenses if you choose to pay rent. He has high medical expenses so we’re happy to help for now but there was no way we would pay his medical expenses while he chose to take on monthly rent. If he could pay that, medical expenses were also on him. 

[Hilltopmom]

I could probably call this realtor/ property manager place and give them a heads up that she’s not likely to be able to pay.. but then she’ll just find another to try. And if they were to tell her that it was because of a call from me, she would probably hold it again me forever. Things are difficult enough.

[Hilltopmom]

4 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

This is so hard. DS went through that stage and I’m so glad I was able to talk him out of it. He said he needed it in order to grow, but I knew it would be too tight financially. Thankfully he decided against it and I’m extra glad because he broke his back a few months later and was out of work for three months. 

I was clear with DS:

You have room and board here and that is what we offer you so we will not bail you out if you can’t make rent.

We will no longer help with medical expenses if you choose to pay rent. He has high medical expenses so we’re happy to help for now but there was no way we would pay his medical expenses while he chose to take on monthly rent. If he could pay that, medical expenses were also on him. 

We talked today about medical expenses since she assumes I’ll just pay those forever. Tbh if I stop paying for her mental health meds and appts, she will stop taking them.

[DawnM]

Do you really think they will give it to her anyway without proof she can pay that much?  

[Tenaj]

My 20yods had a terrible time finding an apartment to lease and he could afford it easily.  They don't like to rent to young people with no rental history.  He even had a good credit rating (he had a credit card from age 18 - piggybacking on ours).  He still got turned down more than once before he found a place willing to give him a chance .  Are you sure it's the lease they sent and not the application?  

[Hilltopmom]

5 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Do you really think they will give it to her anyway without proof she can pay that much?  

I dunno.

I decided to call them and ask a few questions. Is there an income percent for rental amount, etc. that they go by to decide to rent to someone. I’m not sure what else to ask about. 
I really want to tell them that renting to her would be a mistake- they are going to lose money 😞 but it seems like a betrayal or.. something.

And if she knows I interfered, next time she won’t tell me anything until the lease is signed. And it could be worse. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Hilltopmom

[Hilltopmom]

Just now, Tenaj said:

My 20yods had a terrible time finding an apartment to lease and he could afford it easily.  They don't like to rent to young people with no rental history.  He even had a good credit rating (he had a credit card from age 18 - piggybacking on ours).  He still got turned down more than once before he found a place willing to give him a chance .  Are you sure it's the lease they sent and not the application?  

Definitely the lease. They already did the application. She forwarded the lease to me to print. 
I’m just shocked they’d rent to someone with so little income.

[Tenaj]

49 minutes ago, Katy said:

Call the realtor or her boss and raise hell. It can’t be legal in any state. 

What?  She's a legal adult.  Her boss doesn't have anything to do with it and the realtor has or will see her financials so that's on them.

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I dunno.

I decided to call them and ask a few questions. Is there an income percent for rental amount, etc. that they go by to decide to rent to someone. I’m not sure what else to ask about. 
I really want to tell them that renting to her would be a mistake- they are going to lose money 😞 but it seems like a betrayal or.. something.

I don't think it is a betrayal.   You aren't doing it to "rat her out" you are doing it to protect her.   I understand that she is an adult but she is still your baby.

[Tenaj]

Just now, Hilltopmom said:

Definitely the lease. They already did the application. She forwarded the lease to me to print. 
I’m just shocked they’d rent to someone with so little income.

Wow!  That's crazy!  My daughter is an apartment manager and she once in a while has to evict someone who was accepted by a previous manager and she has to scratch her head and wonder why the lease even happened.  Does your daughter know the agent?  The owners?  Sometimes a relationship would cause parameters to be ignored.

[pinball]

16 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

This is so hard. DS went through that stage and I’m so glad I was able to talk him out of it. He said he needed it in order to grow, but I knew it would be too tight financially. Thankfully he decided against it and I’m extra glad because he broke his back a few months later and was out of work for three months. 

I was clear with DS:

You have room and board here and that is what we offer you so we will not bail you out if you can’t make rent.

We will no longer help with medical expenses if you choose to pay rent. He has high medical expenses so we’re happy to help for now but there was no way we would pay his medical expenses while he chose to take on monthly rent. If he could pay that, medical expenses were also on him. 

So theoretically he may never afford to live by himself

[Jaybee]

15 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I dunno.

I decided to call them and ask a few questions. Is there an income percent for rental amount, etc. that they go by to decide to rent to someone. I’m not sure what else to ask about. 
I really want to tell them that renting to her would be a mistake- they are going to lose money 😞 but it seems like a betrayal or.. something.

And if she knows I interfered, next time she won’t tell me anything until the lease is signed. And it could be worse. 

Yeah, it's a difficult spot. After some bad decisions from one of ours, and no indication that learning from them had taken place, we made sure we removed our names from anything that we might could be held responsible for, because that one doesn't listen to our advice or instruction. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I think all of this comes down to a bigger issue—how do you help someone who is not fully capable move into a meaningful adulthood? You’ve mentioned in the past how some cognitive and mental challenges affect this kid’s independence level and how their future income earning opportunities were likely to be limited—have you looked at income adjusted housing there? Made applications to be on the wait list? Have you looked at qualifying for SSI or some of those other things while she is in the window to do so? Vocational rehab?

And, bluntly, have you looked at safe and reliable long term bc? She is at risk of being scooped up into a relationship where she can see more freedom and attention but end up in challenging circumstances. 
 

——-

Affordable housing is a separate issue altogether. We have computer engineers here stacked up in apartments and houses with multiple roommates because a decent 4bR house at $4k/month split four ways gets you much nicer living conditions than a $2200 single bedroom. There are plenty of people here who can likely never afford to live alone—but the problem here is affordable housing, not basic life management.

[WildflowerMom]

Boy, do I empathize.    I don’t have advice.   Just know that you are not alone in navigating the shitshow that is young adulthood (with some kids anyway).  💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛💛

[Hilltopmom]

18 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I think all of this comes down to a bigger issue—how do you help someone who is not fully capable move into a meaningful adulthood? You’ve mentioned in the past how some cognitive and mental challenges affect this kid’s independence level and how their future income earning opportunities were likely to be limited—have you looked at income adjusted housing there? Made applications to be on the wait list? Have you looked at qualifying for SSI or some of those other things while she is in the window to do so? Vocational rehab?

And, bluntly, have you looked at safe and reliable long term bc? She is at risk of being scooped up into a relationship where she can see more freedom and attention but end up in challenging circumstances. 
 

——-

Affordable housing is a separate issue altogether. We have computer engineers here stacked up in apartments and houses with multiple roommates because a decent 4bR house at $4k/month split four ways gets you much nicer living conditions than a $2200 single bedroom. There are plenty of people here who can likely never afford to live alone—but the problem here is affordable housing, not basic life management.

Yes on the BC. Absolutely. 

At this point she doesn’t qualify for vocational rehab or SSI since she got a diploma and her IQ isn’t low enough. 

On paper, she looks “normal” enough that she should be able to get by.

Honestly I hadn’t thought about income controlled housing at all. I will check on that, for sure. Wasn’t even on my radar. Thank you. 

[Storygirl]

10 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

Yes on the BC. Absolutely. 

At this point she doesn’t qualify for vocational rehab or SSI since she got a diploma and her IQ isn’t low enough. 

On paper, she looks “normal” enough that she should be able to get by.

Honestly I hadn’t thought about income controlled housing at all. I will check on that, for sure. Wasn’t even on my radar. Thank you. 

Do you know for sure about vocational rehab? It varies by state, but a diploma doesn't prevent anyone from getting help in our state, and a low IQ is not a requirement.

And we are about to apply to SSI for one our ours -- lots of people who have diplomas and average IQs are on SSI.

[Hilltopmom]

1 minute ago, Storygirl said:

Do you know for sure about vocational rehab? It varies by state, but a diploma doesn't prevent anyone from getting help in our state, and a low IQ is not a requirement.

And we are about to apply to SSI for one our ours -- lots of people who have diplomas and average IQs are on SSI.

I’m going by what we were told in high school transition planning. 
At one point we were given a brochure about vocational stuff but it was for basic jobs like floor sweeping. She works full time but for minimum wage at a school for students with disabilities. 
my dh says she could work at one of the local factories for a lot more money but currently she lives what she does and is good at it. 
To get SSI there is an income limit too though, right? So if she lives with us it would be too high but maybe on her own?

I don’t even know about things like food stamps if she was on her own… maybe she’d qualify for things like that.

Who do you even ask for help on things like SSI?

[pinball]

4 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I’m going by what we were told in high school transition planning. 
At one point we were given a brochure about vocational stuff but it was for basic jobs like floor sweeping. She works full time but for minimum wage at a school for students with disabilities. 
my dh says she could work at one of the local factories for a lot more money but currently she lives what she does and is good at it. 
To get SSI there is an income limit too though, right? So if she lives with us it would be too high but maybe on her own?

I don’t even know about things like food stamps if she was on her own… maybe she’d qualify for things like that.

Who do you even ask for help on things like SSI?

She’d need to have a disability to qualify for SSI. Either has a diagnosis or meets to criteria. Then, if she does, there are resource limits and income limits. It is very low 

you can start at  https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/

[pinball]

This is a very positive blog about living on disability 

https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/2019/06/12/how-to-find-and-follow-the-ssi-regulations/

[Hilltopmom]

5 minutes ago, pinball said:

She’d need to have a disability to qualify for SSI. Either has a diagnosis or meets to criteria. Then, if she does, there are resource limits and income limits. It is very low 

you can start at  https://www.ssa.gov/ssi/

Thank you for the link.

She has learning disability, anxiety, depression but can function enough to work full time.

[freesia]

5 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I’m going by what we were told in high school transition planning. 
At one point we were given a brochure about vocational stuff but it was for basic jobs like floor sweeping. She works full time but for minimum wage at a school for students with disabilities. 
my dh says she could work at one of the local factories for a lot more money but currently she lives what she does and is good at it. 
To get SSI there is an income limit too though, right? So if she lives with us it would be too high but maybe on her own?

I don’t even know about things like food stamps if she was on her own… maybe she’d qualify for things like that.

Who do you even ask for help on things like SSI?

Here's the page for NY (I think that's where you are) eligibility for SNAP: https://otda.ny.gov/programs/snap/

Here's SSI:https://otda.ny.gov/programs/disability-determinations/

I'm not sure she'd qualify.  My MIL had a tenant who got rental assistance because of her income.  I don't know how that works. 

[pinball]

14 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

Thank you for the link.

She has learning disability, anxiety, depression but can function enough to work full time.

I’m hoping you can maybe cobble together *something*…her income as a single adult might qualify her for some assistance…not just food, but in some places, gas/electric, internet subsidies…

also teach her about food pantries & little free food boxes/pantries

[Idalou]

47 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I’m going by what we were told in high school transition planning. 
At one point we were given a brochure about vocational stuff but it was for basic jobs like floor sweeping. She works full time but for minimum wage at a school for students with disabilities. 
my dh says she could work at one of the local factories for a lot more money but currently she lives what she does and is good at it. 
To get SSI there is an income limit too though, right? So if she lives with us it would be too high but maybe on her own?

I don’t even know about things like food stamps if she was on her own… maybe she’d qualify for things like that.

Who do you even ask for help on things like SSI?

 I'd start at your county social services department. They should know if and what she's eligible for end could direct you to those agencies.

[Idalou]

19 minutes ago, pinball said:

I’m hoping you can maybe cobble together *something*…her income as a single adult might qualify her for some assistance…not just food, but in some places, gas/electric, internet subsidies…

also teach her about food pantries & little free food boxes/pantries

Yes. NY has HEAP which gives allowances for both winter and summer heat&cooling, even if you live in an apartment. 

[Katy]

2 hours ago, marbel said:

What does her boss have to do with it?  And what is happening that is illegal? 

Most states have rent to income ratio limits to keep rents affordable. If the realtor is in violation of real estate laws her broker needs to be told, she's got a boss for a reason.  I can't seem to quickly find the state's rules because NYC's city rules are so crazy most people cannot meet them, and there are many articles about it.

[73349]

5 minutes ago, Katy said:

Most states have rent to income ratio limits to keep rents affordable.

Can you link me to something about this? I've heard of this as a guideline for landlords, never as a state law or anything.

[Lecka]

I will wish for her to get a nice roommate from work who has a car 🙂. It does happen!

[Hilltopmom]

Thanks all, I think I have her stalled for now. Told her we would help find something cheaper if possible and to start second job/ get license before signing a lease.

[Katy]

5 minutes ago, 73349 said:

Can you link me to something about this? I've heard of this as a guideline for landlords, never as a state law or anything.

Hmmmm.... I may have misunderstood.  I can find plenty of federal laws regarding low-income housing limits for subsidized & section 8 type of deals, but I'm not finding much on states.  Or maybe I'm not good at google tonight. I'm sure I've been told about legal limits living in multiple states when I was younger and renting, but I wonder if that was in regards to city or county laws not state laws. I know the city where my parents had rental properties had a law like that.

[Hilltopmom]

5 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I will wish for her to get a nice roommate from work who has a car 🙂. It does happen!

The friends offering her their extra room are her co workers!!

[Lecka]

Grrrrr!!!!!!!  
 

Maybe in a few months it will seem like a good idea….  

 

At least it sounds safe?  That is something.  
 

 

[Hilltopmom]

So I had no idea- 1 to 3 year wait list in our county to be eligible for housing assistance/ low income housing or rent assistance voucher. Found that info on the county website.

[pinball]

6 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

So I had no idea- 1 to 3 year wait list in our county to be eligible for housing assistance/ low income housing or rent assistance voucher. Found that info on the county website.

Unfortunately that’s very common…the rule more than the exception

🥺