So my 17 year old is talking to an Army recruiter...

[Zoo Keeper]

.. and he's pretty serious about it.  (where is that freaking out emoji when you need it!)  He is currently doing 1/2 days at home with me and the other 1/2  at the local technical high school, studying Law Enforcement-- and loving it. He would like to go on to become a state trooper, but he can't go to the academy until he is at least 21.  At the moment, he has no desire to go on to college.

Enter the recruiter, who is trying to get him to join the National Guard at 17, go to Basic this summer, then do senior year of high school.  Then ATI. 

Anyone BTDT? 

Any advice? 

HELP! 

xposted to high school board

[Katy]

I don’t, though it sounds like a reasonable plan. He may also want to look into enlisting after graduation to do a full time military police job. 

[Terabith]

My biggest concern would be National Guard versus full time military.  I feel like Guard is kind of the worst of all worlds, and depending on funding and budgets, it can be very unstable even to get to basic.  

[SquirrellyMama]

My son graduated from HS 2 years ago and joined the Army Guard before graduating. He did drill for a few months before HS graduation and then did Basic and AIT in the normal time frame. I do have a friend who has a nephew who did Basic before Senior Year and then AIT after. 

I am glad my son graduated from HS before Basic just because of how hard it was emotionally for him. Physically, he was fine. Even drill sergeants yelling at him didn't phase him. He had the most problem leaving friends and family. I'm not sure how that would have worked before high school ended. 

Kelly

Edited January 29, 2023 by SquirrellyMama

[Soror]

22 minutes ago, Terabith said:

My biggest concern would be National Guard versus full time military.  I feel like Guard is kind of the worst of all worlds, and depending on funding and budgets, it can be very unstable even to get to basic.  

Based on what?

My dad joined the Army when he was 17. At some point early on he switched to the National Guard. He was in the Guards until 60 when he had to retire. About 15-20 years into his career he started a FT job with the Guards. It was great for him and our family. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I have a close relative who went Air Force enlisted for 4 years, was military police there, used the GI bill to get a bachelor’s in criminal justice and then joined the troopers. He’s in his 40s now and has a nice pension coming and no student loan debt.  He plans to retire at 50 and get a master’s degree, then possibly teach at the community college.

It’s worked out well for him.  I honestly wish I had thought my life out as well as he did(we graduated the same year). 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Zoo Keeper said:

.. and he's pretty serious about it.  (where is that freaking out emoji when you need it!)  He is currently doing 1/2 days at home with me and the other 1/2  at the local technical high school, studying Law Enforcement-- and loving it. He would like to go on to become a state trooper, but he can't go to the academy until he is at least 21.  At the moment, he has no desire to go on to college.

Enter the recruiter, who is trying to get him to join the National Guard at 17, go to Basic this summer, then do senior year of high school.  Then ATI. 

Anyone BTDT? 

Any advice? 

HELP! 

xposted to high school board

I don’t see any advantage to national guard vs. active duty in this instance. He can negotiate for better orders, be guaranteed a job, bed, food, and only has to commit for 4 years (at which time he can become a trooper). In exchange, he’d be eligible for enlistment bonuses (car??:savings??) and receive timely military police training which exceeds the standards for civilian academy grads.

[HomeAgain]

25 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I don’t see any advantage to national guard vs. active duty in this instance. He can negotiate for better orders, be guaranteed a job, bed, food, and only has to commit for 4 years (at which time he can become a trooper). In exchange, he’d be eligible for enlistment bonuses (car??:savings??) and receive timely military police training which exceeds the standards for civilian academy grads.

MPs are usually not given enlistment bonuses.  They are an easily filled field with minimal ASVAB requirements.

The one advantage to NG would be living at home.  The disadvantage would be the timeline, if it goes as intended:

Spring: take oath

Summer: head to basic (10 weeks?  12 weeks?)

Then: ?

The natural follow on would be to go to training.  That won't be possible if he's doing his senior year, and even the basic training would be a tight fit over the summer.
Okay, in theory, it would work.  In actuality, it depends highly on the budget of the unit he is joining.  DS did this:

Year 1: Oath

Year 2: Basic

Year 3: Training school/Training at the base afterward

Everything was a year apart.  The budget just wasn't there toward the end of the fiscal year when he joined.  And when he did get a date, it was dependent on when the guard was given slots for both basic and his school. 

Recruiters can and will grease the truth.  Partly because they don't know and partly because their job is to get bodies in the door.  Talking to people who have recently gone through training or done a similar experience to what he is looking for would be a really good thing for him.

[Sneezyone]

12 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

MPs are usually not given enlistment bonuses.  They are an easily filled field with minimal ASVAB requirements.

The one advantage to NG would be living at home.  The disadvantage would be the timeline, if it goes as intended:

Spring: take oath

Summer: head to basic (10 weeks?  12 weeks?)

Then: ?

The natural follow on would be to go to training.  That won't be possible if he's doing his senior year, and even the basic training would be a tight fit over the summer.
Okay, in theory, it would work.  In actuality, it depends highly on the budget of the unit he is joining.  DS did this:

Year 1: Oath

Year 2: Basic

Year 3: Training school/Training at the base afterward

Everything was a year apart.  The budget just wasn't there toward the end of the fiscal year when he joined.  And when he did get a date, it was dependent on when the guard was given slots for both basic and his school. 

Recruiters can and will grease the truth.  Partly because they don't know and partly because their job is to get bodies in the door.  Talking to people who have recently gone through training or done a similar experience to what he is looking for would be a really good thing for him.

I agree with the bolded historically. I just know that every branch is having trouble filling billets right now (DH is a catastrophizer so there's that) and he says bonuses are available for things that were unheard of in years past. DH's enlistment contract specified his report date as June so he left within a month of HS graduation. He did have an awesome/informative/insightful recruiter tho. DD was offered 75K to enlist in the Marines vs. getting an ROTC scholarship.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

Based on what?

My dad joined the Army when he was 17. At some point early on he switched to the National Guard. He was in the Guards until 60 when he had to retire. About 15-20 years into his career he started a FT job with the Guards. It was great for him and our family. 

The National Guard is very budget sensitive, part state-funded. Some states take it seriously, some underfund it when fed revenues drop. If, for example, there's a federal budget standoff, those of us with direct deposit into military related credit unions and banks will still get paid based on our usual direct-deposit. National Guard, even Coasties are often excluded. Promotions are slower. Benefits take longer to obtain, there are fewer admin people, etc.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sneezyone

[MercyA]

No. Just no. Please don't allow your underage child, whose brain is not even fully developed, to make a life-altering decision like this. He's going to be subject to mental abuse if not physical as well. Military training exists largely to destroy people's natural instinct NOT to kill other people--and he could be shipped off to who knows where to participate in a war for who knows what purposes, whether he agrees with it or not.

Surely there are other ways to meet his goals. My two cents.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, MercyA said:

No. Just no. Please don't allow your underage child, whose brain is not even fully developed, to make a life-altering decision like this. He's going to be subject to mental abuse if not physical as well. Military training exists largely to destroy people's natural instinct NOT to kill other people--and he could be shipped off to who knows where to participate in a war for who knows what purposes, whether he agrees with it or not.

Surely there are other ways to meet his goals. My two cents.

Are you speaking from experience or conjecture? There are lots of military jobs. My DH would disagree, strenuously, that "mental abuse" and 'physical abuse" are part of the job.

[TechWife]

It’s doesn’t sound unreasonable, but I have no recent experience. If he does get a bachelors degree at some point, then he would be eligible for more promotions as a police officer. But, he can do that anytime and since he isn’t interested in college now, it makes sense for him to do it when he needs to do it for work.
 He may want to consider that there’s a difference between the work of a police officer and the work of a soldier, even as an MP. Not all good soldiers make good police officers. The mindset is different (or should be). There’s a big difference between preparing for and fighting a war and being a police officer in your own community, which is non-combative (or is supposed to be). I suggest he read some of the pieces written by Pat Skinner, a Savannah, GA detective. He has a lot of insight. He’s also done several tv and radio interviews. His most recent was yesterday on BBC World News. Here’s an article that was written about him - he frequently posts on social media, about his pets and garden (which are both awesome), but also about police work. 
The Spy Who Came Home: Why an Expert on Counterterrorism Became a Beat Cop

A piece written by him for WaPo - He has written several others).

I’m a Cop: I Won’t Fight a “war” on Crime the Way I Fought the War on Terror

His social media feed (he’s also on instagram). If you look back, maybe a year or more ago, he posted more about his work as a beat cop. He doesn’t post as much about his day to day reflections on work currently because he’s a detective now. However, his gang of street cats is amazing, as is the menagerie that is in his home and are worth checking in on daily. 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by TechWife

[MercyA]

12 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Are you speaking from experience or conjecture? There are lots of military jobs. My DH would disagree, strenuously, that "mental abuse" and 'physical abuse" are part of the job.

I'm speaking about what I know about military training--that is what I meant by mental abuse. And it's my understanding that the military absolutely is not bound by any promises made during recruitment, and that enlistees can be sent to do whatever the military wants, wherever the military wants them to go.

But since my experience is so limited, here's a video made by veterans and at least one former recruiter specifically for high school students. OP, I hope it is helpful.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by MercyA

[Sneezyone]

32 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I'm speaking about what I know about military training--that is what I meant by mental abuse. And it's my understanding that the military absolutely is not bound by any promises made during recruitment, and that enlistees can be sent to do whatever the military wants, wherever the military wants them to go.

But since my experience is so limited, here's a video made by veterans and at least one former recruiter specifically for high school students. OP, I hope it is helpful.

 

Interesting. All *written* promises to my DH have been kept. He served as a civilian O recruiter and never lied to people, also as an O programs manager for current members on ships. He was at recruit training command in the last month and recounted how impressed he was by the young sailors there, one of whom (a young woman) refused to let the base commander 'board their ship' (read: enter their barracks) because he'd presented the wrong ID. The sailors thought it was a test (it was, in fact, a silly mix up). I don't think newly abused victims hold their ground in the face of frustrated commanders the way she did. It's a testament to the discipline and fortitude new sailors develop.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sneezyone

[MercyA]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Interesting. All *written* promises to my DH have been kept. 

I'm happy for him, truly. And definitely everything should be in writing. But even enlistment agreements specifically state: “Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may change without notice to me. Such changes may affect my status, pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/reenlistment document.”

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I'm happy for him, truly. And definitely everything should be in writing. But even enlistment agreements specifically state: “Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may change without notice to me. Such changes may affect my status, pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/reenlistment document.”

Yes, Mercy. Because bonuses and pay/benefits aren't set by the recruiter but by SecNav and Congress, not because every recruiter is a lying ass. Every civilian knows their medical benefits can change at anytime too. That's life.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sneezyone

[MercyA]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Yes, Mercy. Because bonuses and pay/benefits aren't set by the recruiter but by SecNav and Congress, not because every recruiter is a lying ass. Every civilian knows their medical benefits can change at anytime too. That's life.

I think there's a big difference between medical benefits changing, and being promised you won't see combat, and then instead being sent to kill and possibly be killed. Or signing up for 4 years and being made to stay for 8. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

57 minutes ago, MercyA said:

No. Just no. Please don't allow your underage child, whose brain is not even fully developed, to make a life-altering decision like this. He's going to be subject to mental abuse if not physical as well. Military training exists largely to destroy people's natural instinct NOT to kill other people--and he could be shipped off to who knows where to participate in a war for who knows what purposes, whether he agrees with it or not.

Surely there are other ways to meet his goals. My two cents.

The OP asked for advice from people who had BTDT, not for someone to vent their philosophical objections. This directly goes against board rules 

[TechWife]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Yes, Mercy. Because bonuses and pay/benefits aren't set by the recruiter but by SecNav and Congress, not because every recruiter is a lying ass. Every civilian knows their medical benefits can change at anytime too. That's life.

Additionally, geopolitics influences how many people are needed to do specific types of jobs and where they need to be to carry out those jobs. Congressional funding decisions affect equipment availability and location. The point of the disclaimer is to make sure that people are signing up to serve, whether or not they get to do exactly what they want to do.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, MercyA said:

I think there's a big difference between medical benefits changing, and being promised you won't see combat, and then instead being sent to kill and possibly be killed. Or signing up for 4 years and being made to stay for 8. 

Those are not promises that any recruiter with integrity can make, nor are they included in any written agreement. Being held over is a possibility everyone understands (after all, you REQUEST discharge, which must be granted) but being held over for four years is rare and likely situational/rate specific.

[MercyA]

5 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The OP asked for advice from people who had BTDT, not for someone to vent their philosophical objections. This directly goes against board rules 

I didn't read this as a JAWM post. Zoo Keeper asked "any advice?" on a separate line from "anyone BTDT?" which led me to believe she welcomed all advice. And I did post a video made by military veterans and former officers, who definitely have BTDT.

My objections are not just philosophical but very practical. 

If Zoo Keeper only wants to hear from people who think this is a good idea, she can let me know and I will bow out. But I don't think that's what this board is usually about, only hearing one side. Unless someone specifies JAWM.

Edited January 30, 2023 by MercyA

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, MercyA said:

I didn't read this as a JAWM post. Zoo Keeper asked "any advice?" on a separate line from "anyone BTDT?" which led me to believe she welcomed all advice. And I did post a video made by military veterans and former officers, who definitely have BTDT.

My objections are not just philosophical but very practical. 

If Zoo Keeper only wants to hear from people who think this is a good idea, she can let me know and I will bow out. But I don't think that's what this board is usually about.

If you find a career field with which people are universally pleased, do let us know.

[MercyA]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

If you find a career field with which people are universally pleased, do let us know.

LOL. Right?!?

Thankfully most careers don't involved killing people or being killed and therefore the stakes are not quite as high. 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, MercyA said:

LOL. Right?!?

Thankfully most careers don't involved killing people or being killed and therefore the stakes are not quite as high. 

Everybody has a job to do. Sometimes, that means taking out bad guys. I may find almost everything about Col. Jessup appalling but his soliloquy at the end of A Few Good Men (and WOMEN!) is entirely on point.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sneezyone

[MercyA]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

Everybody has a job to do. Sometimes, that means taking out bad guys. I may find almost everything about Col. Jessop appalling but his soliloquy at the end of A Few Good Men (and WOMEN!) is entirely on point.

I've not seen that movie (or it was so long ago I don't remember the soliloquy...) 

If all our military did was take out bad guys, I could possibly get behind that. But that's not all they do. They also take out plenty of civilians and children, and that is a fact. 

I HUGELY appreciate that people are willing to risk their own lives for our defense. Really. But unfortunately, defending is not the only thing our military does. They are aggressors and not always for good reason. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I haven't read other replies. I just wanted to bring up that officers here are required to have a bachelor's degree. I don't know how common that is though?

Edited January 30, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[Lecka]

I think you need to ask locally or in potential locations what the police are looking for.

This is what I have heard.

And — my husband was in the Army and several people he worked with went into the police force.

So — some places want experience.  Some places want some college.  Some places want a certain program (some community colleges etc have specific programs, some places care if there are Criminal Justice classes).  

Some places that like military experience care about what branch.  Some places want Military Police.  Some places want Infantry.  

My husband was in the Infantry and some people knew that locally — they should join the Infantry and that is what would be valued.  
 

I have know an MP spouse and her husband knew that locally being an MP was valued.  
 

If he wants a certain department that might be either competitive or a small town that just doesn’t hire many people ever and you’re waiting for someone to retire to get a job — and they don’t host a police academy or anything then you have to do what will get you hired.  

 

This is honestly what I have heard.  

 

I am sure there are other situations but this is just people I have heard of based on people I have met or have known their situation.  

Edit:  the husband I knew through his wife… who was an MP…. Was also planning to get some kind of Criminal Justice degree or something, I didn’t know the details though.  
 

People my husband has worked with seem to be mostly in small towns in rural areas and love things like hunting and fishing.  They were all in the Infantry and I assume mostly didn’t take Criminal Justice classes but I don’t know that for sure.  
 

I also have a cousin who married a soldier who had wanted to join their hometown police department and there he was told — be an MP.  He ended up becoming a contractor and they live somewhere they were stationed before he got out of the Army.  He didn’t end up becoming a police officer. 
 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Lecka

[mom2scouts]

I have one kid halfway to an Army officer commission, another who did National Guard with a middle east deployment, and a nephew who did what your son is talking about doing, but with the Reserves. For the Guard, Basic Training and ATI were scheduled together for my son, but he had already graduated.  DS went to Fort Benning, did both Basic and ATI, and returned home. At 17, your son could be almost done with his NG contract by the time he's old enough to attend the Academy to become a State Trooper depending on how long he's required to serve. If he has to take a Civil Service exam for that, he'll get extra points for his military service. National Guard training is one weekend a month, but the Army often considers all of Friday-Sunday to be the weekend. They also need a one week training in the summer. As I said, my son was pulled out of college for an overseas deployment, but I think the chances of that happening right now are reduced. 

[Lecka]

Can your son talk to his teachers about what is valued in your area, if he wants to stay in your area?

My husband knows someone who became a State Trooper but I have no idea if it would be the same from state to state.  
 

He heard from that person, the newest people take the worst shifts and just have the worst shifts until they move up the ladder and somebody else is new.  I think he worked night shifts (or whatever it was) for 2-3 years and it was miserable but part of “paying your dues.”  
 

But that is something where — I would think a teacher at a local program would know more, and would know more about local hiring, what graduates of their program got hired where down the road, etc.  

 

Something some people do is to get a “double retirement,” if you get military retirement at 20 years, and then get a federal job, and work another 20 years, you also get a federal pension, because military service counts towards a federal pension.  I think that is what this person did.  But I couldn’t tell you if I am right on any details, but I feel like he wanted to be a Highway patrolman or something because they counted his military service towards his retirement, and some jobs will also just do this as a policy, and some won’t.  I guess I don’t know the details, but I think it worked out for him the last we heard.  
 

 

[Zoo Keeper]

OP here...

I am truly thankful for everyone who is offering opinions and advice.  🙂  Conflicting opinions are fine. 

I'm just trying to help my son think through the possibilities before he has any more conversations with the recruiter, and to be aware that it is a life altering commitment, if he signs up. 

I'm happy to hear positives and negatives.

Talk amongst yourselves. 😉

[Sneezyone]

My best advice is to find someone in your orbit who has current experience with NG or AD to attend meetings with the recruiter and your son. Some recruiters do a hard sell (it's their job!) and it's helpful to have someone who has current or very recent experience and a firm backbone present. They can cut through the spiel and nail down the specific asks/commitments your child wants...IN WRITING. They can also ask the questions necessary to tease out important details. I did this for DD and, while the enlisted recruiters were obvs annoyed, the O recruiter was completely understanding and respectful. It probably helped that he looked up my DH tho. 🤣

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sneezyone

[itsheresomewhere]

My neighbor did something like what your son is considering.  He did the minimum amount ( 4 years? I think) right out of high school.  When he left the military, he became a corrections officer first and then was able to secure a job with the police department.  He has no regrets with his path and is very happy with it.  

[Lecka]

Well, personally, to me, it would make sense to find out what would set him up locally or — is his goal to work in a big city.  
 

Find out the requirements or qualifications that would make sense for him.  What are his options as someone who doesn’t want to go to college, and will that work out longer term in his career.  Does he care.  
 

Then — go to all the recruiters.  Decide if he wants to be active duty for 3 years.  Why not?  It would make a lot more sense than National Guard — maybe.  Then see if a certain job within the military is desired.  And if it is — does it matter if he is in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines.  Is there a preference for one of these.  Is an MP the same in any of them.  Would they rather see a Marine or Army Infantry.  What is it that would work and that he would like.

I think it’s cheap to be sucked into the Air National Guard because that’s the recruiter talking to you, when you don’t know if that is the best choice for you or there aren’t better options or things that make more sense by talking to other recruiters.

If he has got something that makes sense to do while he waits to turn 21 — well that is one situation.  If he’s going to be working in fast food or something — is that going to be better than going active duty?  But if he has a good option for a job that he could do with a smaller amount of training etc that would help him to be competitive for the police department and that he would like to do — then that would make sense, too.

But to me it doesn’t make sense to get sucked into Air National Guard without at least finding out what job he might want and talking to other recruiters.  
 

Sometimes it can be hard to get into certain jobs and I have heard of many people who wanted to be in the Marines but it was just easier to get into the Army and be in the Infantry and have Infantry in their contract.  But again this is — something where since my husband was in the Infantry, he knows more people who wanted to be in the Infantry.  And they are people often who would be disappointed to have other jobs in the military.  This just depends on what people would like to do, though.  But I think it’s worth trying to research options and asking — well what is he going to do until he turns 21.  Would he rather do those kinds of things or would he rather try to do active duty for 3 years.  Or is he realistically going to need to get a degree to meet his goals.  And then — if he wants to do that, maybe that’s a lot better fit for being in the National Guard.  I don’t know if it is but it might make more sense if he is going to realize — oh, I better go and take some Criminal Justice classes or whatever he finds out would benefit him.  

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Lecka said:

Well, personally, to me, it would make sense to find out what would set him up locally or — is his goal to work in a big city.  
 

Find out the requirements or qualifications that would make sense for him.  What are his options as someone who doesn’t want to go to college, and will that work out longer term in his career.  Does he care.  
 

Then — go to all the recruiters.  Decide if he wants to be active duty for 3 years.  Why not?  It would make a lot more sense than National Guard — maybe.  Then see if a certain job within the military is desired.  And if it is — does it matter if he is in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines.  Is there a preference for one of these.  Is an MP the same in any of them.  Would they rather see a Marine or Army Infantry.  What is it that would work and that he would like.

I think it’s cheap to be sucked into the Air National Guard because that’s the recruiter talking to you, when you don’t know if that is the best choice for you or there aren’t better options or things that make more sense by talking to other recruiters.

If he has got something that makes sense to do while he waits to turn 21 — well that is one situation.  If he’s going to be working in fast food or something — is that going to be better than going active duty?  But if he has a good option for a job that he could do with a smaller amount of training etc that would help him to be competitive for the police department and that he would like to do — then that would make sense, too.

But to me it doesn’t make sense to get sucked into Air National Guard without at least finding out what job he might want and talking to other recruiters.  
 

Sometimes it can be hard to get into certain jobs and I have heard of many people who wanted to be in the Marines but it was just easier to get into the Army and be in the Infantry and have Infantry in their contract.  But again this is — something where since my husband was in the Infantry, he knows more people who wanted to be in the Infantry.  And they are people often who would be disappointed to have other jobs in the military.  This just depends on what people would like to do, though.  But I think it’s worth trying to research options and asking — well what is he going to do until he turns 21.  Would he rather do those kinds of things or would he rather try to do active duty for 3 years.  Or is he realistically going to need to get a degree to meet his goals.  And then — if he wants to do that, maybe that’s a lot better fit for being in the National Guard.  I don’t know if it is but it might make more sense if he is going to realize — oh, I better go and take some Criminal Justice classes or whatever he finds out would benefit him.  

Let's be honest too...becoming an LEO without a lot of life experience isn't a recipe for success. The pressures and challenges he may face in interacting with all kinds of people demand more than a high school diploma and a few years of weekend drills. Having an extra year or two of 'ADULT' lived experience is a good thing.

[maize]

I have a couple of younger cousins in the Army National Guard. One joined at 17; she did struggle with bootcamp, mostly because some of the women in her unit were nasty (other trainees, not the people training them) and 17 was young for dealing with that. Otherwise she has loved it though; she's a medic and is studying nursing in college. My other cousin was older when she joined--early twenties? She's a linguist and also loves what she does. She's a teacher the rest of the time.

[mom2scouts]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

Let's be honest too...becoming an LEO without a lot of life experience isn't a recipe for success. The pressures and challenges he may face in interacting with all kinds of people demand more than a high school diploma and a few years of weekend drills. Having an extra year or two of 'ADULT' lived experience is a good thing.

Yes, but don't forget that National Guard is often called in for things like riots and natural disasters. One of the first things my son did in the National Guard was riot training which is an area usually done by law enforcement. It might make a difference if her son has another useful job or is doing something towards his goal like taking classes in criminal justice on whether he should go with the Guard or active duty.

[Sneezyone]

11 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

Yes, but don't forget that National Guard is often called in for things like riots and natural disasters. One of the first things my son did in the National Guard was riot training which is an area usually done by law enforcement. It might make a difference if her son has another useful job or is doing something towards his goal like taking classes in criminal justice on whether he should go with the Guard or active duty.

Training is no substitute for actual experience with people. See Katrina, hurricane. If you want a career in LE, broadening your experience with people in stressful situations beyond training and class work is advisable. Even the peace corps or americorps would help. My cousin participated in police ride-alongs in HS. Do they still do that?

[chiguirre]

4 hours ago, MercyA said:

No. Just no. Please don't allow your underage child, whose brain is not even fully developed, to make a life-altering decision like this. He's going to be subject to mental abuse if not physical as well. Military training exists largely to destroy people's natural instinct NOT to kill other people--and he could be shipped off to who knows where to participate in a war for who knows what purposes, whether he agrees with it or not.

Surely there are other ways to meet his goals. My two cents.

The day to day life of the military is not like the movies. Most sailors, soldiers, airmen and even marines are support staff that handle logistics or support services. My dd literally spends her days maintaining her ship's server and answering helpdesk questions.

 

@Zoo KeeperI posted in the High School thread about how dd and I researched job opportunities in the Navy. I hope it give you an idea about where to start.

[vonfirmath]

5 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

MPs are usually not given enlistment bonuses.  They are an easily filled field with minimal ASVAB requirements.

The one advantage to NG would be living at home.  The disadvantage would be the timeline, if it goes as intended:

Spring: take oath

Summer: head to basic (10 weeks?  12 weeks?)

Then: ?

The natural follow on would be to go to training.  That won't be possible if he's doing his senior year, and even the basic training would be a tight fit over the summer.
Okay, in theory, it would work.  In actuality, it depends highly on the budget of the unit he is joining.  DS did this:

Year 1: Oath

Year 2: Basic

Year 3: Training school/Training at the base afterward

Everything was a year apart.  The budget just wasn't there toward the end of the fiscal year when he joined.  And when he did get a date, it was dependent on when the guard was given slots for both basic and his school. 

Recruiters can and will grease the truth.  Partly because they don't know and partly because their job is to get bodies in the door.  Talking to people who have recently gone through training or done a similar experience to what he is looking for would be a really good thing for him.

This is what my niece (who is in the military) said. The recruiters are trying to make their quotas. They won't necessarily tell you what is best for you but, rather, whatever fills a number they need filled. It is best to go knowing what you want and hold out until you get it -- even being willing to walk and do something else.

Because of COVID and training delays, etc. Her BASIC ended up taking almost 6 months. Then she was injured and could not go directly to intermediate but had to rest and see if it would heal enough to continue. It did nad she finished Intermediate over a year after she first swore in.

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by vonfirmath

[Xahm]

Dh was active duty before we got married, is now army national guard. Some things about it are great, some are awful. One thing to keep strongly in mind is that the 1 weekend a month, 2 weeks in summer is a severe underestimate much of the time (all the time in our experience) and can be shifted around. They can take some weekend days, tack them onto the summer days, shift the while thing into the fall, and even shift the next calendar year into the beginning of the fiscal year, leaving then with about 10 weeks at Guard stuff with strategically placed days off so they won't qualify for extra benefits. That's the worst we've had for scheduling, but he's generally gone for nearly month each summer and lots of 4 day weekends, since if which have been in the middle of the week.

Schools and jobs are bound by law to work with you, but it makes college really tough and if your job is actually important to a small business or something, that's really rough on them.

[SquirrellyMama]

12 hours ago, MercyA said:

I think there's a big difference between medical benefits changing, and being promised you won't see combat, and then instead being sent to kill and possibly be killed. Or signing up for 4 years and being made to stay for 8. 

Anyone who believes they won't see combat shouldn't go into the military. I told my son before he enlisted that I NEVER wanted him to come to me and say, "But I never thought I'd be deployed into combat." You enlist in the military and you had better assume you will see combat. 

I do think that making sure you know that not everything they promise will come true is good advice. We told our son that over and over. 

Kelly

Edited January 30, 2023 by SquirrellyMama

[kbutton]

 

15 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

My best advice is to find someone in your orbit who has current experience with NG or AD to attend meetings with the recruiter and your son. Some recruiters do a hard sell (it's their job!) and it's helpful to have someone who has current or very recent experience and a firm backbone present. They can cut through the spiel and nail down the specific asks/commitments your child wants...IN WRITING. They can also ask the questions necessary to tease out important details. I did this for DD and, while the enlisted recruiters were obvs annoyed, the O recruiter was completely understanding and respectful. It probably helped that he looked up my DH tho. 🤣

I know lots of people who went into the military and have known a few who were recruiters. I lost touch with someone who was a dog handler for the MP for several years.

I think having a parent or and eyes wide open adult to visit the recruiter is very wise.

The MP I knew did more security work than policing, though he did a little policing.

NG people seem to love it or hate it—if they go into something high demand, it makes a difference.

As a mom, I would want my child to wait until graduation to speak to a recruiter, but that’s just me.

[Zoo Keeper]

I'm not able time-wise to respond to each post, but I am very grateful to each of you who has posted. 

We (DH, myself, and the 17 year old) will be sitting down and reading this thread together and talking it through. 

Any more opinions/anecdotes are welcome, since this is all very new territory for us.

 

More information = better decision (hopefully!)

 

[Lecka]

I can see wanting to wait for a young person to be older and more mature before talking to a recruiter, but there can be a lead time and it can also take time to explore options.

I don’t know what it is like right now, but often — it’s a different situation for how much time it takes to go through processes.  
 

He needs to decide what he would want to do, and what looks good to him.

 

The recruiters I am familiar with have a “mission” which is to put a certain number of people in the Army every month, often 2-3 people a month.  They need this to be steady from month to month.  But I think this is often a win-win as there are people who want to join the Army.  
 

Then there are times that — oh, for whatever reason, a certain job is popular and it is backed up to join the Army to do that job.  So then you either have started the process earlier and it can be lined up for when you graduate (if that’s what you want) or you are having to wait around for 6 months or go ahead and join to do something currently available.

 

This seems to just depend.  And, there are various differences between the services, too, and all these things.
 

I also really would ask — does the National Guard make sense for someone who isn’t going to college.  By which I mean — maybe just do active duty.  Or — just commit to whatever other thing you would do.  If you are really drawn to it — then sure. But I think it can get to be an inconvenience to people, and other times people might wish to change to active duty and might not be able to.  
 

It’s often hard to change from whatever is decided when joining.  It shouldn’t just be — oh, somebody presented you with an option and you took it.  It should be something where you go in saying what you want, or think about what you want after finding out about options.  

[theelfqueen]

Does he know or can he connect with a guard member/vet who can talk to him about that path? Someone other than the recruiter can answer a lot of his questions and make him feel more comfortable with their answers. Or better still someone at the unit he is looking to join. 

I know in the Aviation community - Guard is one of the few options where your sign on is specifically for flight training - in other branches flight training is very competitive and not something you can be promised due to the ever changing number of flight slots, so in this particular instance, guard can be a great choice BECAUSE of the promises they can give. I think this may also be true for other career fields. Everyone I know who served Guard has said good things.

My husband was Air Force and my oldest son is Air Force but both officers, so a different group of challenges. 

My older son was sworn in at 17 for ROTC - I had to sign away guardianship so he could do that. But he was in college not in high school.

Edited January 30, 2023 by theelfqueen

[chiguirre]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

Then there are times that — oh, for whatever reason, a certain job is popular and it is backed up to join the Army to do that job.  So then you either have started the process earlier and it can be lined up for when you graduate (if that’s what you want) or you are having to wait around for 6 months or go ahead and join to do something currently available.

 

I agree. Dd enlisted in August at the beginning of her senior year. She got the job she wanted and was able to ship out in June right after finishing her high school classes. She has friends who enlisted later in their senior years and had to wait much longer to ship out. One got to go in September but had to settle for a third choice job and one had to wait until November for his first choice. Things right now may be easier because there is a real slump in recruiting because of the good job market and the introduction of Genesis (a medical records system that will pull ALL of a recruit's records and means that many more people need waivers to join.) If your child has a medical condition that will require a waiver like a sports injury or childhood asthma or any mental health consultations, factor in a lot more time to get doctor's records and possibly new medical evaluations.

[Lecka]

I have heard of this also where someone would have had to wait just to join the Marines or the Air Force, and the Army wasn’t their first choice, but they didn’t want to wait and wait.  
 

Within that, I have also heard of people being told “it will be 3 months,” and then after 3 months it got delayed again, and then that is when they joined the Army.  
 

I don’t know “the whole story” on what would have been going on, but I think I have heard this from more than one person.

 

Edit:  really, I think sometimes this is for someone who was waiting for a certain job and then the slot for their job went to someone else the recruiters thought had higher stats or something.  
 

Or the recruiters think — well, this guy will enlist either way, but this guy will only enlist if he gets x, y, z, so then they only have one slot and give it to the person they think will not enlist at all unless he gets that slot.

 

I don’t know if that is the case but I think it might be the case.  
 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Lecka

[BlsdMama]

My son is ROTC and will be FT Army after graduation in May.  DH was enlisted Army.  One consideration is that so much could change between now and graduation. Is he really sure he wants to make the commitment more than a year before leaving?

[Xahm]

I asked my Army National Guard husband and he says the key is figuring out, with the recruiter's help if needed, the specific location/unit that will work for him and make sure that it has places for entry level people in the job he wants. It's miserable to have to do weekend drill at a place 200 miles from home, and the gas will eat up his earnings. If there aren't any openings at his preferred location when he goes to MEPs but there will be later, he can wait until something opens up. It wouldn't be unusual for them to then move people around the rosters to make space for him right away.