Give me your best arguments either for or against

[prairiewindmomma]

I live in a legal for recreational use state, and don't use it. 

But, because I live in a legal state, the products sold legally are strictly regulated.  The chemical compounds are listed. It's not just about smoking--you can get much stricter and accurate dosing with tinctures, including tinctures in gummies or chocolate or other edibles. I think that's much safer than smoking the stuff, which is mostly what happens when it is illegal.

 

[Melissa Louise]

6 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Decriminalize. We fill prisons with non violent drug users and then leave the rapists and abusers on the streets. I am not for treating a marijuana user the same or worse than the Brock Turner's of the world. We pay more of a price in this society over cigarette smoke and alcoholism than cannibis. Seriously. Think about that. If cannabis is illegal, then for damn sure cigarettes and alcohol should be. But wince we have decided that adults get to make the choice about that stuff, we should let them make the choice about cannabis which is actually less dangerous than the other two.

Decrim of drugs won't lead to rapists and abusers being off the streets.

I mean, I wish it were so.

Drugs/alcohol are implicated in a lot of abuse.

I'd be happy to ban cigarettes and tightly regulate alcohol.

I don't really understand the argument, well, we already allow 90 units of harm, let's allow another 5 units, because it's all harm, right? What's a little more?

Idk. I am not in the headspace to hear about how cannabis is groovy and harmless.

I'm really upset about my young friend. The cannabis habit (legally though dodgeily obtained) came before her psychosis, that's for sure.

[wathe]

Cannabis is definitely not harmless.

We see acute psychosis and paranoia.  Sometimes requiring  hospitalization.  For some patients who continue to use, hospitalizations over and over  and over again.

We see quite a lot of hyperemesis in chronic users, requiring IV hydration and hospital admission

We see accidental ingestion, especially in young kids and older adults who've consumed a household member's edibles not realizing what they were.  Some of these take quite a lot of effort to sort out.  All kinds of strange presentations.  These ones upset me, because these patients are victims of other's carelessness in storing their edibles.  Edibles that look and taste like candy/chocolate should be banned.

We see overdoses with edibles - they have slower onset of action, so some people just keep eating more because they perceive no effect at first.

Probably the biggest issue is chronic cannabis use making other chronic mental health disorders much, much  harder to manage.  It's pervasive.

Even so, legal with tight regulation is still better than illegal.  

ETA my province does this pretty well.  My only complaints are 1)  I would like 25+, the age of brain maturity, and 2) ban edibles that look like candy/chocolate/food. Make edibles look like medicine -  I think this would go a long way to avoiding accidental cannabis poisonings.

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by wathe

[wathe]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/cannabis-gummies-poisonings-kids-illegal-sites-1.5879232

Plain packaging is a requirement, but lots of illegal edibles circulate anyway.  And legal ones do still look like candy once out of their package. 

Adding that most of these accidental poisonings do not get reported.

Edited October 23, 2022 by wathe

[Farrar]

It's legal here. There has been very little change in behavior that I see around me. I see no good arguments for not legalizing. I think once it's legalized everywhere (and honestly, I do think that's where we're headed as a country) that there can be better, clearer education around it. Also, the further we get from prohibition, the more clean the business will get, because it's still pretty dirty overall but there's no way to clean and legitimize and control it unless we head toward legalization.

[rebcoola]

It's legal here haven't seen any issues. You can't smoke basically anything anywhere so no smell issues in public.  I am pro legalize, regulate and tax it.  

[prairiewindmomma]

54 minutes ago, wathe said:

 

We see accidental ingestion, especially in young kids and older adults who've consumed a household member's edibles not realizing what they were.  Some of these take quite a lot of effort to sort out.  All kinds of strange presentations.  These ones upset me, because these patients are victims of other's carelessness in storing their edibles.  Edibles that look and taste like candy/chocolate should be banned.

 

I am with you on 25+.

I also agree that people should have consequences for not storing edibles appropriately. There should be lockboxes or other required measures for securing them....just like we require trigger locks on guns or other things.

[Frances]

2 hours ago, busymama7 said:

Its legal in my state and a massive public nuisance, IMO.   The smell is the worst most disgusting smell and it is EVERYWHERE.  The rare times I have to go into a grocery store (I usually do pick up) I am absolutely grossed out having to smell it all over people when I'm picking my produce.   Just driving by places the smell permeates the car.  

I am old enough to remember public smoking like smoking rooms in schools and hospitals and sections on the plane. This is worse than that was because of how rank the smell is and how far it travels.  Sometimes I can't have my windows open in my home because of it.   

I don't really care about what people are doing and it doesn't seem to affect anything else.  But for this reason alone I wish it had never been legalized.   

Interesting. We were one of the first states to legalize, there are shops absolutely everywhere, but I very, very rarely smell it anywhere. There’s been no difference at all as far as I can tell compared to when only medical use was legal. Now when vaping first became popular before some of the restrictions and taxation here, that was everywhere. I couldn’t walk anywhere without smelling everything from cotton candy to strawberry vape and everything in between. Now that was annoying.

[annandatje]

My body can not tolerate narcotic pain relievers and nausea is my Achilles heel.  During my cancer treatment, my insurance company decided I only needed a certain number of nausea pills.  My Eastern European  oncologist recommended I try marijuana if I had access to it.  It was mostly the elixir I needed.  The rapid weight loss stopped.  I had to use edibles or liquid because I cannot smoke.  I could not stomach a medicinal dose for pain but what I took relieved my anxiety about the anticipation of pain, making it tolerable.  It was also the only medication that helped me sleep without groggy side effects. Thus, I want to see it legalized for both recreational and medicinal use but please do not let big pharmaceutical companies in on it.  Keep it small scale. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by annandatje

[EKS]

37 minutes ago, annandatje said:

Thus, I want to see it legalized for both recreational and medicinal use but please do not let big pharmaceutical companies in on it.  Keep it small scale.

Regarding the bolded--why not?

[Murphy101]

14 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

For.

Reasons? Alcohol.

Until people are willing to go full prohibition, it’s just posturing.

Not that I’m for full prohibition. I’m just saying, unless you’re going to start arresting alcoholics for their potential impacts on others, there’s no unique leg to stand on.

Bah. Everyone go have cocaine then I suppose.

That’s no argument at all. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Against. 

Everywhere I've been where it's decriminalized, it's taking up an incredible amount of real estate. Trucks and stores everywhere. And I'm not convinced decriminalizing it is solving any serious society-wide problem. 

[EKS]

3 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Everyone go have cocaine then I suppose.

Why not?

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, EKS said:

Why not?

I suppose cause it's bad for people 😛. 

I don't know. "Something pernicious is legal" isn't any argument for making other pernicious things legal, in my opinion.

For one thing, it's much easier to keep something illegal than it is to MAKE it illegal after people are used to it being legal. People revolt. 

[EKS]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Everywhere I've been where it's decriminalized, it's taking up an incredible amount of real estate. Trucks and stores everywhere.

Here there seem to be as many pot stores as there are liquor stores.

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

And I'm not convinced decriminalizing it is solving any serious society-wide problem. 

If it is done correctly, it gets rid of the black market and the crime that goes with it.  It also allows for a more realistic and informative literacy to develop around drug use and abuse. 

[Corraleno]

I don't use it personally but I live in a state where it's been legal for years, and I'm 100% in favor of national legalization AND expunging all previous convictions for possession of small amounts. Cannabis laws were created for blatantly racist reasons, and they continue to be unequally enforced. I'd wager that the number of lives that have been "ruined" by simply smoking weed pales in comparison to the number of lives that have been ruined by incarceration for possession.

I live in a major metro area and there are a lot of pot shops here, but I never smell weed. The people I know who use it are all perfectly normal, functional adults and they mostly use tinctures or edibles for the same reason someone would have a few drinks: to relieve anxiety or just relax and unwind after a stressful day. The hypocrisy of continuing to arrest and incarcerate people for cannabis while alcohol is not only allowed but heavily promoted is indefensible IMO.

Last year, cannabis sales generated $180 million in tax revenue in Oregon and $560 million in Washington. That money goes into programs for addiction and mental health, as well as schools, health departments, and various city and county programs. Legalizing, regulating, and taxing cannabis shifts billions of dollars away from cartels and criminals to legitimate businesses and programs to help people.

[EKS]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I suppose cause it's bad for people 😛. 

Lots of things are bad for people.  Why is it the government's business what I put in my body in the privacy of my own home?

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, EKS said:

Here there seem to be as many pot stores as there are liquor stores.

That's not my experience where I've lived, although I don't know any statistics. 

 

Just now, EKS said:

If it is done correctly, it gets rid of the black market and the crime that goes with it.  It also allows for a more realistic and informative literacy to develop around drug use and abuse. 

I could believe that, although I'm not informed about it. 

I don't know about literacy. As far as I can tell, it just makes it more prevalent. We'll see what happens in a decade, I guess. 

@Quill, would you rather we not spar on here? It's your thread. 

[Murphy101]

Against. Strongly. 

If it’s for medicinal use, then it should be regulated at least as well as baby aspirin for proper dosing and material content.

I’m generally against any form of smoking or vaping anything.

Recreational drug use is not really a concept I see any value to society or government encouraging.

That aside, marijuana farms use a crazy huge amount of water and energy and I think that’s a downright fool hardy waste of a limited resource that entire communities pay the price for.

I think those who have a genuine medical need for it should be just assured of it’s dosing and material content as they are of their baby aspirins or whatever.  Otherwise it’s of little true medical value.  It’s just another drug roulette. Is it enough to work? To work without side effect? Is anyone monitoring for side effects? Who the hell knows but they got high so guess maybe so?

[EKS]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

As far as I can tell, it just makes it more prevalent.

But does it really?  There must be studies that have explored this issue.

[Murphy101]

1 minute ago, EKS said:

Lots of things are bad for people.  Why is it the government's business what I put in my body in the privacy of my own home?
 

 

People also do things like drink window cleaner.  We shouldn’t make that legal either.

Why?

Because no man and no woman are islands unto themselves.

Because I am called to love my neighbor, even if they don’t love themselves.

Because we become those around us. And we are building a world for our children to grow into.

When people can’t go anywhere without seeing smokers and smoking effects - more of them start smoking and have a harder time stopping.

Reducing the ability or adding consequences both social and legal to smoke in public, to not wearing seatbelts, to driving drunk reduced the number of people who did those things. The opposite is also true. Removing those obstacles can make something happen more. 

[Frances]

10 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Against. Strongly. 

If it’s for medicinal use, then it should be regulated at least as well as baby aspirin for proper dosing and material content.

I’m generally against any form of smoking or vaping anything.

Recreational drug use is not really a concept I see any value to society or government encouraging.

That aside, marijuana farms use a crazy huge amount of water and energy and I think that’s a downright fool hardy waste of a limited resource that entire communities pay the price for.

I think those who have a genuine medical need for it should be just assured of it’s dosing and material content as they are of their baby aspirins or whatever.  Otherwise it’s of little true medical value.  It’s just another drug roulette. Is it enough to work? To work without side effect? Is anyone monitoring for side effects? Who the hell knows but they got high so guess maybe so?

It can’t really be studied because it is not legal at the federal level.

[Murphy101]

The pot stores and farms have exploded here. It’s like over night every other store front was a pot shop. And every other green house became a pot farm. 

[Frances]

11 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Against. Strongly. 

Recreational drug use is not really a concept I see any value to society or government encouraging.

But how is that different than recreational alcohol use? I personally partake of alcohol only very rarely, so would have no issue if it weren’t available legally. But we all know what happened during prohibition.

For marijuana, I would like to see a higher legal usage age (maybe 25) and I am concerned about people driving while impaired without a test equivalent to blood alcohol level. But in general, I think the pros of legalization with heavy taxation outweigh the cons.

[Frances]

2 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

The pot stores and farms have exploded here. It’s like over night every other store front was a pot shop. And every other green house became a pot farm. 

That’s just basic capitalism. I’m guessing that once things settle down and the market stabilizes there, many of the pot shops and pot farms will not survive.

[Frances]

6 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

People also do things like drink window cleaner.  We shouldn’t make that legal either.

Why?

Because no man and no woman are islands unto themselves.

Because I am called to love my neighbor, even if they don’t love themselves.

Because we become those around us. And we are building a world for our children to grow into.

When people can’t go anywhere without seeing smokers and smoking effects - more of them start smoking and have a harder time stopping.

Reducing the ability or adding consequences both social and legal to smoke in public, to not wearing seatbelts, to driving drunk reduced the number of people who did those things. The opposite is also true. Removing those obstacles can make something happen more. 

Some states already don’t allow pot smoking in public, including mine.

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, Frances said:

People also do things like drink window cleaner.  We shouldn’t make that legal either.

 

Is this actually illegal though?  I’m pretty sure it’s actually completely legal to drink windex, it’s just not advisable for healthy living.  

[KSera]

15 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Against, but I'm not sure I have a good argument.

It's a knee jerk reaction to the second adult child of friends being hospitalized with a cannabis-induced psychosis.

Will be interested to read the arguments.

I don't believe in criminalizing users but I don't like normalizing use in young people either.

I’m not in favor of criminalizing users, but I have the same experience as above. I’ve witnessed a friend’s young adult have a psychotic reaction to using marijuana that resulted initially in arrest (for the ensuing behavior) and then in patient hospitalization. They weren’t sure if he would come out of it or not. Super scary. That coupled with the effects on brain development make me not happy about it being normalized as no big deal to young people. 

15 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

Against, because in the state I live in, advertising for cannabis now is like advertising for cigarettes was a few decades ago. 

I wouldn't be against it if they weren't allowed to advertise. But they are definitely working on increasing the market, and that makes me angry. Not sure why this smoke is better for your lungs than tobacco smoke.

I have the same issue. The advertising is EVERYWHERE. They legalized before putting any rules in place about that, and I don’t understand why it wouldn’t have to abide by rules similar to advertising cigarettes and/or alcohol. 

9 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

More and more, I think Nevada has the right idea. Legalize everything, tax it to the hilt, and restrict it. So, Nevada’s personal use law basically disallows any level of cannabis  in the bloodstream anywhere outside your personal residence. You can buy it, carry it, and use it at home; nowhere else. Honestly, I saw and smelled less marijuana in Reno, where it’s legal than I do in Memphis, where it’s illegal, in very similar parts of town. 
 

I like that idea. Helps address the intoxicated driving (I’d be all for the same rule for alcohol) and everyone else having to breathe it. 

6 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

True on a population level currently,  but the damage to a susceptible individual is immense.

It's no small thing to develop a psychosis as a young person, and require hospitalization for that, and then deal with the mental illness that has been triggered as an ongoing condition. Most recent young friend was definitely treated for withdrawal symptoms in the early part of her hospitalization. And she will be discharged to a substance abuse program. That's not miniscule.

QFT

3 hours ago, Frances said:

Interesting. We were one of the first states to legalize, there are shops absolutely everywhere, but I very, very rarely smell it anywhere. There’s been no difference at all as far as I can tell compared to when only medical use was legal. Now when vaping first became popular before some of the restrictions and taxation here, that was everywhere. I couldn’t walk anywhere without smelling everything from cotton candy to strawberry vape and everything in between. Now that was annoying.

That’s so interesting. Maybe it’s very local culture dependent? I smell it a lot, and it’s super bad around the dorms in both my kids schools (one more than the other—she has to keep her windows closed to keep it out). But yeah, I never smelled it before legalization and now it’s super common to. 

8 minutes ago, EKS said:

But does it really?  There must be studies that have explored this issue.

There are. I’ve read in my area that abuse of other substances is going down, but cannabis is going up. Here’s a recent study (that only examined through 2019, so it would be interesting to see if the trend has continued):

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10826084.2022.2115849

and another on problem cannabis use increasing in teens in states that legalized:

https://www.businessinsider.com/study-teens-use-more-marijuana-in-states-with-legal-marijuana-2019-11?op=1

There are also lots of studies on the effects of cannabis on developing brains. Even very low usage is associated with reductions in gray matter and other brain changes  

I think criminalization is a problem and am not advocating that, but legalization has not been without problems and I think not enough is being done to address them. So many adults have a “no big deal” attitude about pot use that it’s not surprising kids do as well  

 

[busymama7]

5 hours ago, rebcoola said:

It's legal here haven't seen any issues. You can't smoke basically anything anywhere so no smell issues in public.  I am pro legalize, regulate and tax it.  

This is so interesting that you aren't smelling it. I never see anyone actually smoking it but the smell is all over their clothes and body and thats what I'm smelling it in public.   And the farms themselves let off a huge stink.   Like driving by on the freeway you can smell it.  I have been told it's because it's lower quality so maybe you live somewhere where people use better quality.   It is a huge problem here to me so there has to be some difference.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by busymama7

[Heartstrings]

My state has legalization on the ballet this year too but there’s a monopoly written into the bill, which I don’t like.  I’m not sure yet how I’ll vote on this particular bill because of how it’s written.   
 

I’m 100% for legalization though, even though I never have and never will use it.  I rarely drink alcohol and have never smoked.  
 

I see a lot of arguments here against the idea but I just can’t wrap my head around the alternative, which is people going to jail. I don’t like how it smells on people after they’ve smoked it, the pot stores that I’ve seen in other states are always garish and ugly, this monopoly issue, etc., but I just can’t see jailing people in our absolute hell hole of a prison system  for weed when people can buy both cigarettes and alcohol freely.  Ruining lives for something so inconsequential just seems wrong.
 

 People hurt themselves with alcohol every day.  Weed seems safer.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Bootsie]

DH and I were looking for a nice restaurant for a special celebration.  The dress code for a very upscale restaurant read:

"We suggest that our guests choose attire that is both polished and suited to our restaurant. Thank you for not wearing clothing emitting excessive marijuana odor, excessively revealing clothing including exposed undergarments, and clothing with offensive language or graphics."

And--we do not live where it is legalized.

Personally, I cannot stomach the smell and do not favor, support, or encourage use.  But, there are a lot of things I do not favor or encourage the use or consumption of, but I don't think it helps to criminalize the behavior.  Trying to control other people's behavior usually does not end well.  

[Melissa Louise]

35 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

My state has legalization on the ballet this year too but there’s a monopoly written into the bill, which I don’t like.  I’m not sure yet how I’ll vote on this particular bill because of how it’s written.   
 

I’m 100% for legalization though, even though I never have and never will use it.  I rarely drink alcohol and have never smoked.  
 

I see a lot of arguments here against the idea but I just can’t wrap my head around the alternative, which is people going to jail. I don’t like how it smells on people after they’ve smoked it, the pot stores that I’ve seen in other states are always garish and ugly, this monopoly issue, etc., but I just can’t see jailing people in our absolute hell hole of a prison system  for weed when people can buy both cigarettes and alcohol freely.  Ruining lives for something so inconsequential just seems wrong.
 

 People hurt themselves with alcohol every day.  Weed seems safer.  

You could decrim personal recreational  use but not recreational sales. 

 

 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

Is this actually illegal though?  I’m pretty sure it’s actually completely legal to drink windex, it’s just not advisable for healthy living.  

I don’t know what happened to mess up quotes, but I’m not the one that posted about window cleaner. I think it was @Murphy101.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Frances

[heartlikealion]

I don’t like smoke of any kind but I would probably go with decriminalizing it for a couple reasons. One of which is decriminalizing drugs supposedly makes a dent in the illegal distribution of it. Though I’ve heard it costs more to buy legally so I don’t know. 

Taxes to go back into the city? 

I just wouldn’t want it to be everywhere like outdoor patios at restaurants. I don’t know how restaurants would handle it. It gives me a headache.

I’m not sure if people would be any more inclined to smoke it around the vulnerable (young kids) but people that already smoke would probably act no differently. 

[Frances]

5 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I don’t like smoke of any kind but I would probably go with decriminalizing it for a couple reasons. One of which is decriminalizing drugs supposedly makes a dent in the illegal distribution of it. Though I’ve heard it costs more to buy legally so I don’t know. 

Taxes to go back into the city? 

I just wouldn’t want it to be everywhere like outdoor patios at restaurants. I don’t know how restaurants would handle it. It gives me a headache.

I’m not sure if people would be any more inclined to smoke it around the vulnerable (young kids) but people that already smoke would probably act no differently. 

My state legalized it, regulates and taxes it, but doesn’t allow it to be smoked in public.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Frances

[Ausmumof3]

Mixed feelings. I think using is a bad idea but I’m not sure how much legislation achieves. I think maybe legal to grow for personal use but not commercial trade might be a good compromise though I guess some argue that hampers those who don’t have steady housing? Schizophrenia is a concern.

[rebcoola]

2 hours ago, busymama7 said:

This is so interesting that you aren't smelling it. I never see anyone actually smoking it but the smell is all over their clothes and body and thats what I'm smelling it in public.   And the farms themselves let off a huge stink.   Like driving by on the freeway you can smell it.  I have been told it's because it's lower quality so maybe you live somewhere where people use better quality.   It is a huge problem here to me so there has to be some difference.  

Interesting idk,  where the pot farms are.  Maybe it's just because we live in wide open places.  I don't remember smelling it a ton when in Oregon or Western Washington.  Some in downtown portland.

[TravelingChris]

California still has problems with illegal pot use.

[Tanaqui]

For.

Marijuana use may be as harmful as tobacco or alcohol use. However, the effects of the War on Drugs, including but certainly not limited to mass incarceration, are much more harmful than marijuana.

[Tanaqui]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Against. 

Everywhere I've been where it's decriminalized, it's taking up an incredible amount of real estate. Trucks and stores everywhere. And I'm not convinced decriminalizing it is solving any serious society-wide problem. 

I feel that way about cars, but nobody else wants to get on board with my "Ban all cars so we have more street space for people" initiative.

Joking aside, it sounds like those trucks and stores are stimulating the economy. I don't see why that's a problem.

[Heartstrings]

5 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

You could decrim personal recreational  use but not recreational sales. 

 

 

That feels a little too cute. Besides I don’t want the small time dealers going to jail either.  The reason a small time dealer gets into drug sales are varied but are usually related to poverty.  Keeping sales illegal just keeps money flowing to the cartels.  Not to mention it does nothing to keep the supply safe.  

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's not my experience where I've lived, although I don't know any statistics. 

 

I could believe that, although I'm not informed about it. 

I don't know about literacy. As far as I can tell, it just makes it more prevalent. We'll see what happens in a decade, I guess. 

@Quill, would you rather we not spar on here? It's your thread. 

No it is perfectly fine. That’s why I brought the question here; I have not defined my views on this and I still do not know how I will vote. (Which is not to say I think my vote will make the slightest difference; this state is similar to states where it is legal already so I do think that’s the direction it’s heading. I just want to define my own thoughts before I vote.) I want the robust debate so I can challenge my own thinking on the matter. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Frances said:

My state legalized it, regulates and taxes it, but doesn’t allow it to be smoked in public.

Makes sense to me. My state is so heavily opposed to public smoking (of cigarettes) that my sheltered homeschooled kids were literally 8/9/10 years old before they saw a person smoking a cigarette. I remember my son not even having the word for it when he saw someone smoking outside a post office in a tiny town. He said, “Hey, that guy has one of those smoking things!” I’m not very concerned about smelling mj in public if rec use is legal; I’m assuming people won’t smoke pot at the baseball fields just as they don’t smoke cigs there. Public smoking of cigarettes is heavily frowned upon even where it’s legal, which is not everywhere. My adjacent county bans cigarette smoking practically everywhere public. 

[Wheres Toto]

It sounds like the experience is very different among the different states where it's legal.    If it was legalized on a national level, standards could be set regarding advertising, public use, etc.    I can't remember the last time I saw anyone smoking cigarettes in public, and I have only smelled pot in public once in the past year.    I actually said something to dh about a weird smelling skunk and he pointed out it wasn't a skunk.  😆 

We have a pot farm right across the river we live on.  Probably about 1/4 mile away at most.  No smell, no noise.  Only irritation is the lights they have on at night, but those are really only visible in winter when there are no leaves on the trees or if you look for them.  

[Eos]

Conflicted.  I think it should be legal and support the pardoning of past pot related crimes.  That said, I will vote against having stores in my town this fall (it's legal in my state.)  The reason is that it's not yet legal at the federal level, and so small businesses cannot receive federally backed loans or guarantees, thus requiring small businesses to be well-capitalized.  In less expensive rural areas this works for the mom-n-pop type stores but in my high-rent area it will either keep those folks from entering business or set them up to have to sell to big money interests if they can't make it.  Because it's federally illegal, major credit card companies won't process sales.  I'm not thrilled about the idea of stores with that level of cash sales, I would guess (and our police chief told our Town Council this has been the case in Colorado) that the risk of robbery and burglary at those locations may be increased.  I would change my vote if it were federally legal.

Sideways: the argument that it's a good source of tax revenue is one I disagree with on principle.  I don't think we as a society should fund our needs by taxing things like pot, alcohol, or lottery sales that can lead to addiction or allow people to escape reality.  Tax the rich.

[Soror]

For-- because cigarettes and alcohol

Against any advertisements and smoking in public places blech

I have no desire to smoke pot, just like I have no desire to smoke cigarettes or rarely a desire to drink but think keeping it illegal is hypocritical.

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

That feels a little too cute. Besides I don’t want the small time dealers going to jail either.  The reason a small time dealer gets into drug sales are varied but are usually related to poverty.  Keeping sales illegal just keeps money flowing to the cartels.  Not to mention it does nothing to keep the supply safe.  

I don't know what you mean by 'cute'.

[Carrie12345]

9 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Bah. Everyone go have cocaine then I suppose.

That’s no argument at all. 

 

It’s a pretty strong legal argument for a legal question! Just because people have a personal opinion about the usage doesn’t mean they have adequate legal standing, which is why I have very mixed feelings about ballot questions like this.  
We are a country (and individual states) that allows people to put things in their body that can harm them and can potentially harm others. If we want to be a society that does NOT allow that, then we should be criminalizing all substances that cause and/or have the potential to cause harm.   
If the intent is to “save” people, lean in!!! If it’s just “It makes me worried/scared/uncomfortable”, spend more time reading about alcohol related fatalities and tell me you’re still cool with that.

9 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Is this actually illegal though?  I’m pretty sure it’s actually completely legal to drink windex, it’s just not advisable for healthy living.  

If it *were* illegal to drink Windex, wouldn’t the equivalent be to ban the manufacturing, selling, buying, and possession of windex, in order to prevent the drinking?  
And is drinking Windex actually worse than downing a 5th of Jack (that’s a phrase, right?) or 3 bottles of wine? I wouldn’t know because I’ve never done any of those things, but I’m allowed to!

[Heartstrings]

37 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I don't know what you mean by 'cute'.

Saying that we’ll let people possess it but that we’ll make it illegal to sell is just pretending that someone can posses a thing without needing to purchase that thing and I don’t think laws should be based on make believe. Alcohol Prohibition was actually a ban on the production and sale of alcohol not small level. possession, that didn’t exactly work out and still led to all sorts of criminal behavior.  

I can see that it some what appeases the people who don’t want to jail people for possession but it does nothing about the supply side.  It doesn’t ensure the weed isn’t laced with anything.  It still punishes low level dealers and still funds the cartels. It still keeps the business underground for criminality to flourish, just like moonshine operations and speak easys under prohibition.  
 

Decriminalizing the possession of weed would be a tiny step in the right direction and I’d take it over nothing, but I’d rather just bring everything into the light and deal with it as a regulated industry, following the example set when we ended the prohibition of alcohol.  

[EKS]

11 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

People also do things like drink window cleaner.  We shouldn’t make that legal either.

As far as I know, it is perfectly legal to drink window cleaner.