Being Asked to Pay for an Expensive Space to Take Lessons (on top of lesson cost)

[teachermom2834]

I feel from past threads that you are very attached to this particular sport. I do think at seven years old you could throw that time and money into gymnastics and ballet and revisit this particular genre when she is older. 
 

I’m at the tail end of my parenting (3 adult kids and a high schooler) and I have done all sorts of activities with them, some extreme, so I get it. But I bet she would be fine, maybe even better off, if you spent the money you were saving if you drop this on local ballet and gymnastics and revisited this in five years with a stronger athlete and less burned out parents. 

[Ting Tang]

Just now, Baseballandhockey said:

Are there other activities that she could do locally that would build on the same talents?
 

Not really. Anything related is also far, sadly.   She can continue with ballet, though.  It is 10 minutes from home, lol.  At least we have that.  We've lost quite a few activities in the area. Even the schools have lost extracurriculars.  😞  

[Ting Tang]

1 minute ago, teachermom2834 said:

I feel from past threads that you are very attached to this particular sport. I do think at seven years old you could throw that time and money into gymnastics and ballet and revisit this particular genre when she is older. 
 

I’m at the tail end of my parenting (3 adult kids and a high schooler) and I have done all sorts of activities with them, some extreme, so I get it. But I bet she would be fine, maybe even better off, if you spent the money you were saving if you drop this on local ballet and gymnastics and revisited this in five years with a stronger athlete and less burned out parents. 

Thank you!  I have become a fan of the sport.  I felt like we found something she was pretty good at.  She made a good friend this year she'd see at the contests.  Her mom doesn't seem to get the warm fuzzies from the teacher, either, based on her comment. Now, we will stick with ballet for her at least.  

[Clarita]

10 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

The difference here is that the lessons don’t sound approved by the gym.  She is telling the students to say they are here to practice. 

I missed that. That's a huge difference.  

This though I've never heard of. I would actually have concerns that when this arrangement falls apart (if it is indeed skirting the gym's rules) I'd have to figure out yet another location in the near future along with all the other unknown hardships that may occur.

Personally I would rather have lessons in non-ideal location instead of trying to skirt around the rules of an establishment. I get really anxious when I have to be sneaky. 

[TechWife]

The gym membership requirement makes sense to me. With our very limited experience swimming, to take lessons at a private club, club membership is required. It’s both a money making opportunity for the club and a CYA where insurance is concerned. But, that said, we never found the crazy cost of sports was justified in the younger years. In middle school, ds did competitive robotics, and while not a sport it was $$$ with a travel commitment. Then the ROI was better, but when he lost his passion by the end of middle school, he didn’t join the high school aged team. It was worth exploring, as a passion in middle school, but not worth  continuing for the sake of mere interest in the high school years? I think it was hard for us as parents to make that decision because not only were we closing the door for ds, at least temporarily, we were also exiting a parent peer group that we enjoyed being part of. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by TechWife

[Wheres Toto]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

We have just been going to her house.  I think they rent gyms for the team.  Once we went to a gym they rented for lessons. I paid her and another coach $55. When I got home she messaged me and said she forgot to tell me that everyone was chipping in for the gym and that I had to pay them an extra $10. So I got on Venmo and did my thing, lol.

She sounds like she's either super flaky or trying to milk her students for as much money she can get without having to pay much in expenses.   Edited to add:  I have no problem with someone making money doing lessons.  She seems like she's sneaking in extra fees or shady practices to make more than what would be typical for the area.  Is she trying to maximize for a little while to maybe get out of the business soon?

It sounds super expensive to me and I'm in an extremely HCOL area and had a daughter doing competitive dance for 20 years (including in college).    Completely private, one-on-one lessons at her dance studio were $25/30 minutes with most teachers.  One teacher charged more but was in a professional company (tap).   

Edited August 14, 2022 by Wheres Toto

[Ting Tang]

4 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

She sounds like she's either super flaky or trying to milk her students for as much money she can get without having to pay much in expenses.   Edited to add:  I have no problem with someone making money doing lessons.  She seems like she's sneaking in extra fees or shady practices to make more than what would be typical for the area.  Is she trying to maximize for a little while to maybe get out of the business soon?

It sounds super expensive to me and I'm in an extremely HCOL area and had a daughter doing competitive dance for 20 years (including in college).    Completely private, one-on-one lessons at her dance studio were $25/30 minutes with most teachers.  One teacher charged more but was in a professional company (tap).   

She is in her 60s, so she may not be doing this much longer.  I am guessing she thinks she is worth the money, and it's not that per se...  it's just being required to have a very expensive gym membership to continue.  I told her in my message I would brainstorm and I didn't know if there were any other options, but still...no response.   😞  It's certainly not her fault that we chose to do something not local. I just had no idea it would be this much more to continue.  😞  One thing is for sure, though, I have now learned what questions to ask before we get my kids into anything else, lol.  

[Ting Tang]

11 minutes ago, Clarita said:

This though I've never heard of. I would actually have concerns that when this arrangement falls apart (if it is indeed skirting the gym's rules) I'd have to figure out yet another location in the near future along with all the other unknown hardships that may occur.

Personally I would rather have lessons in non-ideal location instead of trying to skirt around the rules of an establishment. I get really anxious when I have to be sneaky. 

Yes, I am not a rule-breaker, either.... I think she feels it is okay to say "practice" instead of "lesson."

[Ting Tang]

12 minutes ago, TechWife said:

The gym membership requirement makes sense to me. With our very limited experience swimming, to take lessons at a private club, club membership is required. It’s both a money making opportunity for the club and a CYA where insurance is concerned. But, that said, we never found the crazy cost of sports was justified in the younger years. In middle school, ds did competitive robotics, and while not a sport it was $$$ with a travel commitment. Then the ROI was better, but when he lost his passion by the end of middle school, he didn’t join the high school aged team. It was worth exploring, as a passion in middle school, but not worth  continuing for the sake of mere interest in the high school years? I think it was hard for us as parents to make that decision because not only were we closing the door for ds, at least temporarily, we were also exiting a parent peer group that we enjoyed being part of. 

I think where she lost me is that this isn't the only place to do lessons.  It is a grand facility, but there is little value other than a gym floor.  We saw a girl who gave similar lessons in a farm tool shed that had a floor.  I could understand if we needed this type of facility moreso--like tennis, swim, etc. Maybe she feels they do, I am not really sure.  😞  But you are right, I do feel like I am closing a door.  On the other hand, I would have more time to do things I used to enjoy!

[Wheres Toto]

4 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

She is in her 60s, so she may not be doing this much longer.  I am guessing she thinks she is worth the money, and it's not that per se...  it's just being required to have a very expensive gym membership to continue.  I told her in my message I would brainstorm and I didn't know if there were any other options, but still...no response.   😞  It's certainly not her fault that we chose to do something not local. I just had no idea it would be this much more to continue.  😞  One thing is for sure, though, I have now learned what questions to ask before we get my kids into anything else, lol.  

The membership is part of her lesson fees, even if they are being paid to someone else.  Usually these types of fees are built-in to the lesson fees so it looks different, but the bottom line is the combined price is what her lessons cost someone.   It sounds like the combined fee is outside the normal range of fees for activities in the area.   

It does stink that she won't even answer you.  

[KungFuPanda]

I teach private dance lessons and charge $70-$80 an hour. This fee has to cover studio rental, insurance, prep time, music, supplies, and still allow me to make a respectable profit. If I were charging $40 I’d barely break even and I have no desire to work for minimum wage or free. 
 

The gym might insist that private students become members to be covered under their insurance. This would make sense if they manage the insurance for the instructor. For your personal budget and schedule, you absolutely have to consider time, gas, and vehicle wear. The instructor has zero obligation to work these things into her price structure. 
 

With the real estate markets going nuts, rents are going up and this cost of business has to be passed to the customer if anyone is going to make a living. It sounds like a poor fit all around for the OP, and the instructor should have responded, but odds are she’s frustrated to answer complaints about things she can’t control. Still, a prompt and polite explanation can go a long way. 
 

ETA: When it comes to little kid extracurriculars and budgets I think it’s wise to match the tuition amount (or at least half match it) in a college fund. If there is no way you can afford to save that way, then a less expensive activity that does allow room for college savings makes more sense. NOBODY ever gets a kid to 18 and wishes they’d saved less money for college. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by KungFuPanda

[Jaybee]

Nope, not willing to spend that much time and money for an activity, especially for a young child. 

It's possible that if my child were in high school and super dedicated and talented in a sport or activity, I would consider it. But we always tried to balance any activities and time/money spent on them with the whole of our family's life, and I would not do this.

[ScoutTN]

4 hours ago, Terabith said:

Honestly, I cannot fathom spending that amount of money OR time on an activity for a seven year old.  I also cannot fathom evaluating an activity for a seven year old based on "will this look good on her resume?"  

I think it's a ridiculous way to choose activities for high schoolers, but soooo much more so for a seven year old.  

There's got to be some other activity that your seven year old would enjoy and that would promote fitness.

This!

[Kuovonne]

3 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I hate for to lose what she learned.

Realistically, she is going to quit at some point. Activities like this are not life-long activities. So at some point, she will stop doing it and will eventually loose the physical skills. She might quit at seven or at seventeen or twenty seven. But at some point it will come to an end.

That does not necessarily mean that previous time spent on the activity was wasted. Time spend learning an art form that one enjoys is never a waste. And she can still pick it back up later if circumstances allow, and the skills will come back must faster the second time around.

Do you have a natural end point in mind? For my kids expensive extracurricular activities there were natural end points—after a year, two years, entering high school, high school graduation, etc. Sometimes my kids quit earlier than I originally thought, sometimes later. It was hard when the end came earlier than I thought it should. And it was harder for me than for my kids. 

[Shoeless]

Girl, I would drop this activity so fast. 

Expensive activity that a young child feels wishy-washy about?  And it requires a lot of driving and parental supervision for home practice? And an indifferent instructor who wants you to kinda-sorta fib that you aren't there at the fancy gym for lessons, you're all there as members?  Like, what happens when the gym finds out that she's skirting the rules and you can't have lessons there anymore? Now you're stuck with a fancy gym membership you don't want.  What happens if a kid gets hurt at the gym during her not-lessons? Everyone's going to be playing hot-potato over who's responsible in that scenario. 

Nah...

For whatever it's worth, we had an issue with an instructor that wanted us to lie so we could participate in her class in an after-school program.   I think we could have participated because the classes were advertised to the general community through parks and rec and payment was made directly to the vendor, *not* the school.  But she wasn't sure if it was correct that we could participate and didn't seem interested in finding out, so she said we should just lie and say we go to a different school if anyone asked.  "It's easier that way".  Er...

We went a few times but it was just weird and stressful, so we stopped going.

[DawnM]

Agreeing with quitting this particular activity and maybe finding an alternative, although if she is in ballet, that may be plenty for her right now at age 7.

Honestly, I wouldn't even drive that far for an activity unless there were VERY extenuating circumstances. 

[thewellerman]

I've lived where we need to drive lot, so that part doesn't seem bad to me.  We just have a car routine and incorporate that into our week.  I regularly drive 300 to 400 miles per week for activities.  

That said, I don't drive for things we don't like, and I'm very particular about the experiences my children have.  I'm always watching very closely to be sure the kids are being treated well, the instructor is a good example in all ways, and my children are engaged and happy.  I expect hard work from my kids, but I expect their instructors to be good leaders.  I would want to know if this gym membership aspect was shady, or not.  

Is it possible she has decided to break up her fees this way because local families would use those facilities more, outside of lesson time?

We have had to find workarounds for activites we needed to stop, but didn't want to loose completely.  Could you pause lessons for a while and save a few months worth of fees? Then, do lessons more frequently for a month so you have to pay the facility fee only 1x every now and then?  If you did lessons 3x a week but only every 3rd month, then the facility fee would drop to about $10 extra per lesson.  Is there an activity your other children could also do at this gym that would allow you to maximize your membership? If you couldn't do it every 3rd month, could you save up and sort of create a season for this sport?  Do 4 months of lessons 3 or 4 times a week, then break for 8 months.

Also, why do you have to have a membership when only your daughter is using the gym?  Can you get a waiver to be a "free observer" or something? 

[Ting Tang]

12 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

The membership is part of her lesson fees, even if they are being paid to someone else.  Usually these types of fees are built-in to the lesson fees so it looks different, but the bottom line is the combined price is what her lessons cost someone.   It sounds like the combined fee is outside the normal range of fees for activities in the area.   

It does stink that she won't even answer you.  

Yes, it is actually way out of line for the entire hobby, but that is because most instructors have gone through dance studios or park districts perhaps.  😞

[Ting Tang]

12 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I teach private dance lessons and charge $70-$80 an hour. This fee has to cover studio rental, insurance, prep time, music, supplies, and still allow me to make a respectable profit. If I were charging $40 I’d barely break even and I have no desire to work for minimum wage or free. 
 

The gym might insist that private students become members to be covered under their insurance. This would make sense if they manage the insurance for the instructor. For your personal budget and schedule, you absolutely have to consider time, gas, and vehicle wear. The instructor has zero obligation to work these things into her price structure. 
 

With the real estate markets going nuts, rents are going up and this cost of business has to be passed to the customer if anyone is going to make a living. It sounds like a poor fit all around for the OP, and the instructor should have responded, but odds are she’s frustrated to answer complaints about things she can’t control. Still, a prompt and polite explanation can go a long way. 
 

ETA: When it comes to little kid extracurriculars and budgets I think it’s wise to match the tuition amount (or at least half match it) in a college fund. If there is no way you can afford to save that way, then a less expensive activity that does allow room for college savings makes more sense. NOBODY ever gets a kid to 18 and wishes they’d saved less money for college. 

Those are good points!  And absolutely.  I do not want to keep throwing more and more money at things, just knowing we have children who will likely go to college or some type of training program....or heck, we might just want to help them with other things in life.  It just feels irresponsible.

[Ting Tang]

10 hours ago, Kuovonne said:

Realistically, she is going to quit at some point. Activities like this are not life-long activities. So at some point, she will stop doing it and will eventually loose the physical skills. She might quit at seven or at seventeen or twenty seven. But at some point it will come to an end.

That does not necessarily mean that previous time spent on the activity was wasted. Time spend learning an art form that one enjoys is never a waste. And she can still pick it back up later if circumstances allow, and the skills will come back must faster the second time around.

Do you have a natural end point in mind? For my kids expensive extracurricular activities there were natural end points—after a year, two years, entering high school, high school graduation, etc. Sometimes my kids quit earlier than I originally thought, sometimes later. It was hard when the end came earlier than I thought it should. And it was harder for me than for my kids. 

In a perfect world and she enjoyed it, she could do it in college.  Adults continue and even have their own groups, but that is so far off.  I wish the end would be a concise, "I don't want to do this" from my child.  That would be easier for me to accept. And it isn't that I cannot pay for the membership.  We just think it is crazy to pay for it when we can't use it.

[Ting Tang]

5 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Girl, I would drop this activity so fast. 

Expensive activity that a young child feels wishy-washy about?  And it requires a lot of driving and parental supervision for home practice? And an indifferent instructor who wants you to kinda-sorta fib that you aren't there at the fancy gym for lessons, you're all there as members?  Like, what happens when the gym finds out that she's skirting the rules and you can't have lessons there anymore? Now you're stuck with a fancy gym membership you don't want.  What happens if a kid gets hurt at the gym during her not-lessons? Everyone's going to be playing hot-potato over who's responsible in that scenario. 

Nah...

For whatever it's worth, we had an issue with an instructor that wanted us to lie so we could participate in her class in an after-school program.   I think we could have participated because the classes were advertised to the general community through parks and rec and payment was made directly to the vendor, *not* the school.  But she wasn't sure if it was correct that we could participate and didn't seem interested in finding out, so she said we should just lie and say we go to a different school if anyone asked.  "It's easier that way".  Er...

We went a few times but it was just weird and stressful, so we stopped going.

Oh great points!  I have never signed a thing with her about liability.  But that could get hairy if the gym asks what was going on. I'd have to say "practice."  And fancy gym---perfect description.  Stress with kid activities seems so stupid, doesn't it?

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, thewellerman said:

I've lived where we need to drive lot, so that part doesn't seem bad to me.  We just have a car routine and incorporate that into our week.  I regularly drive 300 to 400 miles per week for activities.  

That said, I don't drive for things we don't like, and I'm very particular about the experiences my children have.  I'm always watching very closely to be sure the kids are being treated well, the instructor is a good example in all ways, and my children are engaged and happy.  I expect hard work from my kids, but I expect their instructors to be good leaders.  I would want to know if this gym membership aspect was shady, or not.  

Is it possible she has decided to break up her fees this way because local families would use those facilities more, outside of lesson time?

We have had to find workarounds for activites we needed to stop, but didn't want to loose completely.  Could you pause lessons for a while and save a few months worth of fees? Then, do lessons more frequently for a month so you have to pay the facility fee only 1x every now and then?  If you did lessons 3x a week but only every 3rd month, then the facility fee would drop to about $10 extra per lesson.  Is there an activity your other children could also do at this gym that would allow you to maximize your membership? If you couldn't do it every 3rd month, could you save up and sort of create a season for this sport?  Do 4 months of lessons 3 or 4 times a week, then break for 8 months.

Also, why do you have to have a membership when only your daughter is using the gym?  Can you get a waiver to be a "free observer" or something? 

Thank you!  I married into a farming family, so we absolutely have to live rural.   I think the worse part is her lack of emotion, response to the situation.  It is all business.  I am sorry, but I think a coach should be more than that.  I do think her families get to use the facilities more since they live closer, but for me, if I lived closer---I still have other kids---I probably wouldn't be going there often.  We have a gym in our basement and a pool in our backyard.  Unfortunately, guess passes are limited, and with my daughter's age, I need to be a member, too.  They do give free tours, lol.  

[Terabith]

She’s seven and she’s been doing this since she was three.  She probably can’t imagine a world in which she doesn’t do this activity.  It’s not a situation like you signed her up for a season of rec soccer and asked at the end if she wanted to do it again.  I don’t think it’s realistic to want her to say she doesn’t want to do it anymore.  At seven, our kids are still very much at our mercy for activities.  They just don’t know what’s out there. Maybe think of this as an opportunity to allow her to explore something new?  At seven, she’s still young enough to try out lots of new things, but in a couple years, the window will close.  Which is insane, but in most areas, you can’t drop in and try a new activity you’ve never done before because there’s no set up for 11 or 12 year old beginners.  

[Brittany1116]

Quit. Everything you are saying is reading to outsiders like you need to quit now. Better now than when she is 11 or 14 and just "tired of it". I can't tell you how many people I know invested thousands and thousands for over a decade just for a tween or teen to suddenly be over it and drop.

[Acorn]

I am probably entering a similar situation with a child desiring figure skating lessons. There is a club fee to get access to ice and then private coach fee. That is the norm for ice time and expected in the sport. I’m having a hard time imagining the set up for your situation since your coach had a different arrangement last year. I would be cautious in your situation if the management of the gym clues into the subcontracting lessons. I’m assuming that an alternative coach isn’t possible. I can only send wishes that you and your child reach peace with the situation. 

[lmrich]

Instead of saying that you are quiting, rephrase it to we are going to pursue more family time and more time at the ballet studio. 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, lmrich said:

Instead of saying that you are quiting, rephrase it to we are going to pursue more family time and more time at the ballet studio. 

Yes, this. 

Consider a balance between organized athletics and unstructured time outdoors for physical play. Dance can certainly be a lifetime sport, but elementary years are a great time for exposure to a variety of athletic endeavors. Plenty of time later for focus.

[Clemsondana]

Even for activities that we quit at the end of a season, my kids rarely came to me and said 'I hate this and don't want to do it any more'.  I think they needed the end of semester conversations to think to talk about it, because otherwise it's just 'what we do'.  These were a bigger deal when the kids were little because we had to talk about possibilities, but with my high schooler I can just say 'Do you want to change anything?' because kid knows what each activity entails.  When they were little, the discussion involved me asking how much they liked each thing, whether there was anything that they didn't like about it, whether they thought it was worth the time, whether there was anything that they'd rather be doing with the time, whether they wanted more or less time at home or for other activities, etc.  One kid has played an instrument since age 5, but went from dance to basketball to karate over the course of the elementary school years, and now as a middle schooler does both karate and volleyball (it's more activities than I had planned, but I'm fine with it now for various reasons).  I'd consider offering something like an additional dance class - maybe trying a new type like jazz if you do ballet or something else that makes it new.  I'd even ask if kid would rather do a weekly family movie night or bowling night or playdate with a friend or some other equivalent in place of the lesson.  If kid says yes, then you know that kid didn't really love it and you've found a cheaper and less time consuming thing to do.  

[73349]

I would decline to pursue it any further (and I only have 1 kid's activities to manage). Ballet is enough right now, and thankfully closer.

[sassenach]

19 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

 

She is only 7 but has been doing this since 3 with a few breaks.   I know parents pay a ton of money for sports these days, too, but I really hate the idea of paying for something so expensive we couldn't really use as intended. I am also not a fitness center person.  I am probably not going to spend hours there after a lesson just to use it and then go drive.

Definitely quit. This is not worth it at all. 

[sassenach]

A little story about how we dropped an activity that didn't work for our family:

I had both kids in swim team. They loved swim, I loved swim. The problem was twofold. First, ds had a competing sport that was his priority (he's still doing it in college). When he was younger we could balance both, but around 11/12 it became a problem. At that same point, my special needs guy became harder to drag out to swim events. We could have let dd continue swim and ds stop, however, the volunteer requirements for swim were so heavy, and special needs ds so tricky to balance, that we decided that we really couldn't make it work anymore. Dd's other activity was dance so we sweetened the pot and increased her dance involvement and stopped swim.

We were all bummed that we couldn't make swim work anymore. In theory, if we had not had a special needs guy to consider, we could have made both work. Was it entirely fair to dd that she could no longer swim because of her brothers? No, that's a bummer. Was it best for the family (including the parents who are trying to meet everyone's needs while not killing ourselves)? Yes. Sometimes you just have to pull the plug on an activity and realize that it will be ok. They will be happy, well-adjusted humans even without that activity.

Edited August 14, 2022 by sassenach

[Brittany1116]

1 minute ago, sassenach said:

A little story about how we dropped an activity that didn't work for our family:

I had both kids in swim team. They loved swim, I loved swim. The problem was twofold. First, ds had a competing sport that was his priority (he's still doing it in college). When he was younger we could balance both, but around 11/12 it became a problem. At that same point, my special needs guy became harder to drag out to swim events. We could have let dd continue swim and ds stop, however, the volunteer requirements for swim were so heavy, and special needs ds so tricky to balance, that we decided that we really couldn't make it work anymore. Dd's other activity was dance so we sweetened the pot and increased her dance involvement and stopped swim.

We were all bummed that we couldn't make swim work anymore. In theory, if we not had a special needs guy to consider, we could have make both work. Was it entirely fair to dd that she could no longer swim because of her brothers? No, that's a bummer. Was it best for the family (including the parents who are trying to meet everyone's needs while not killing ourselves)? Yes. Sometimes you just have to pull the plug on an activity and realize that it will be ok. They will be happy, well-adjusted humans even without that activity.

Second part is so important, too. With another 2-3 kids, can you offer the same opportunities for any number of sibs who want to do something as expensive and involved? Should their lives be dictated by one kid's schedule at 7?

I have a former coworker whose son played baseball on very competitive teams. Tons of travel, very expensive. Every. Single. Weekend. For years on end they were at an event. Many times the daughter's birthday was totally eclipsed by a baseball tournament, and she had no extracurriculars at all. 

[JennyD]

5 hours ago, thewellerman said:

I expect their instructors to be good leaders.  I would want to know if this gym membership aspect was shady, or not.

Same.  Even if the activity were significantly cheaper and closer, this situation would still be a hard no for me.  I can imagine instances in which I would be willing to lie in front of my kids, but they're along the lines of falsely telling a gunman that the police are right outside, not telling a gym's front desk person that we're there for practice when it's really a paid lesson.

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by JennyD

[Bambam]

You know, I look at things differently.
To me, it looks like you are considering paying $5,000/year for this lesson ($100/lesson + 50 weeks/year = $5,000)
And it sounds like she is 7?
And this is her second activity?
And it is a 170 mile round trip? (so, at least 3 hours travel time once/week)
To me, this is a no brainer - drop the activity, and put $5,000/year in her college fund. Hey or just a regular savings account. Assuming no interest at all, and you do this every year for 11 years - that's $55,000. We could have lots of fun her assuming the costs going up, so you would have to contribute more each year + interest, and end up with quite a bit more in savings. 

 

[Kuovonne]

3 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

In a perfect world

Perfect for whom? Perfect for you or perfect for her?

3 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

she could do it in college

Even if she quits now, she can still do it in college. I cannot think of a single extracurricular activity that requires constant practice from the age of 7 in order to participate in college. And who knows where her interests might lead her between now and college.

3 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I wish the end would be a concise, "I don't want to do this" from my child.  That would be easier for me to accept.

Yeah, but we don't always get that from our kids. My DD is in high school, so she is much older that yours. I've been wondering when my DD will quit her extracurricular for four years. Four years ago was really rough. I thought she wanted to quit for the wrong reasons, and I convinced her to try a different teacher. I don't know if I made the right decision back then or not. Over the past four years, every single one of her original friends has quit that activity. Some quit and never looked back. Some quit and came back. Some regret quitting but have no intention of returning. The moms have had similar reactions, but not necessarily matching their daughters. Some moms were ready to move on when their kids moved on. Some moms were sad that their daughters left the activity for quite a while after the departure. 

4 hours ago, Terabith said:

She’s seven and she’s been doing this since she was three.  She probably can’t imagine a world in which she doesn’t do this activity.

I agree with this. My dd has been doing her extracurricular since she was three. She cannot imagine a world without it. I've tried encourage her to broaden her experiences,but my DD is no longer at an age where this is easy to do. My most recent attempt was a very, very expensive flop. DD stated that she never, ever wants to do this alternative activity again. But at least we now both know from actual experience.

[Drama Llama]

5 hours ago, Terabith said:

She’s seven and she’s been doing this since she was three.  She probably can’t imagine a world in which she doesn’t do this activity.  It’s not a situation like you signed her up for a season of rec soccer and asked at the end if she wanted to do it again.  I don’t think it’s realistic to want her to say she doesn’t want to do it anymore.  At seven, our kids are still very much at our mercy for activities.  They just don’t know what’s out there. Maybe think of this as an opportunity to allow her to explore something new?  At seven, she’s still young enough to try out lots of new things, but in a couple years, the window will close.  Which is insane, but in most areas, you can’t drop in and try a new activity you’ve never done before because there’s no set up for 11 or 12 year old beginners.  

I think this is a really good point.  If she's a kid who does well at this activity, and enjoys it enough that you can imagine her continuing to college, is there another local activity that she might enjoy and excel at equally?   And if this one becomes overwhelming when she's 10 or 12, would she still be able to access that activity, or would that window be closed?

I wonder if you found something local, and took a semester long break from this activity for the new one, what she'd choose at the end.  

[Dmmetler]

Another thought-does anyone coach virtually? Like on Outschool? That might be a way of keeping going at a less expensive cost and without the driving.  

[KungFuPanda]

31 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Another thought-does anyone coach virtually? Like on Outschool? That might be a way of keeping going at a less expensive cost and without the driving.  

Uhhh, that’s brilliant. Get that kid a zoom teacher and stop driving. 

[Shoeless]

I missed the part about college and this activity looking good on a resume. 

Hon, this is crazy talk. She's 7. I would be running my child away from any job or university that made a point of evaluating activities from age 3 onward. 

[Corraleno]

Even aside from the cost, there is no way I would be driving 170 miles every week for a single lesson for a 7 year old who wasn't even especially passionate about the activity and had to be cajoled into practicing. Add the expense of $400/month for just 4 lessons, and that seems crazy to me. And I say that as the parent of a kid who did eventually end up in an expensive sport that he was (and still is) extremely passionate about and works very very hard at, as well as a kid who tried and liked several things but was never super dedicated to any of them.

And even with DS, for the first couple of years we stayed at a very small local club that cost $150/month for 3 classes and 1 private lesson per week. Only after it became clear that he was seriously competitive on a national level AND was passionate enough about it to put in the hours and hours of practice necessary to get there, did we move to a more expensive club with a much higher level of coaching and training. DD tried several things (TKD, dance, gymnastics), and although she enjoyed them (especially the social aspect), she was never especially passionate about any of them and very rarely practiced outside of class, so in her case we stayed with inexpensive local programs and only did local competitions. If she had been really serious about any of them, and was willing to put in the effort, then I would have been willing to pay more and/or drive further for higher level training — although even then it would be more around middle school age, not at 7.

 

[Ting Tang]

I'll try to put my response to many in one. lol

So update:  the teacher messaged me and said she understands and is going to try to accommodate us without that big membership.  I feel a lot better that she responded, even though it took a day.  I just want to be clear---I do not support her in this sport for the sake of it being a resume-builder.  I do think it is something she could do long-term.  I was just trying to explain that we are definitely not pursuing Olympic dreams.

Anyway, it has been a big part of her life for a long time, so I see how it could be hard for her to imagine it any other way.  We did try zoom, but it was very hard for her to focus, and it grew tiring for her.  We've had breaks that lasted months.  When she did zoom, she wanted to be done for a very long time, so we did that.  She is also very well-rounded.  She has been in other activities from violin to dog-training, lol.  She is fearless and baits her own fish hooks, lol!  Practice is the equivalent of practicing the piano in my mind, but I have definitely read of the dangers of specializing in something too soon. 

We would never, ever ever ever ever let this completely destroy her birthday or any of our other children's birthdays for that matter.  I do think if we had to do the membership, it would be harder to keep things even with my other children and their activities.  College is definitely on our minds.  The kids have savings, and we put nothing on credit cards. If we had to live that way, we'd cut the activities.  I'm just pretty cognizant of our finances because I used to work in nonprofit and money was not of plenty during that time in my life.

I am rambling, but once again, I appreciate all of you!  Thank you for validating many of my thoughts as well as some other perspectives!

 

 

[Ting Tang]

7 hours ago, Acorn said:

I am probably entering a similar situation with a child desiring figure skating lessons. There is a club fee to get access to ice and then private coach fee. That is the norm for ice time and expected in the sport. I’m having a hard time imagining the set up for your situation since your coach had a different arrangement last year. I would be cautious in your situation if the management of the gym clues into the subcontracting lessons. I’m assuming that an alternative coach isn’t possible. I can only send wishes that you and your child reach peace with the situation. 

Hey there!  Oh that has to be tough.  I have always thought ice skating was a beautiful sport, but we don't even have an ice rink here.  And I can't even think of a way to practice ice skating without ice, though I have seen special mats.

My daughter at one point was interested in roller/artistic roller skating.  My sister in law broke her arm doing it at a party, though, so nobody was supportive of the idea.  The first thing they are to teach is how to fall. I imagine it's the same way with ice skating. Do you have any roller rinks?  Tara Lipinski started off as a roller skater, I learned.  

The roller rink by us does lessons.  I could see that being an alternative?  If it comes down to that.  

We do know of an alternative coach a tad closer for us.  I was on the brink of contacting her.  I just think she lacked a little coaching experience, but it is still an option if she is willing. She doesn't really have many students and has been working towards a graduate degree while teaching and raising their first child.  

[Frances]

45 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Even aside from the cost, there is no way I would be driving 170 miles every week for a single lesson for a 7 year old who wasn't even especially passionate about the activity and had to be cajoled into practicing. Add the expense of $400/month for just 4 lessons, and that seems crazy to me. And I say that as the parent of a kid who did eventually end up in an expensive sport that he was (and still is) extremely passionate about and works very very hard at, as well as a kid who tried and liked several things but was never super dedicated to any of them.

And even with DS, for the first couple of years we stayed at a very small local club that cost $150/month for 3 classes and 1 private lesson per week. Only after it became clear that he was seriously competitive on a national level AND was passionate enough about it to put in the hours and hours of practice necessary to get there, did we move to a more expensive club with a much higher level of coaching and training. DD tried several things (TKD, dance, gymnastics), and although she enjoyed them (especially the social aspect), she was never especially passionate about any of them and very rarely practiced outside of class, so in her case we stayed with inexpensive local programs and only did local competitions. If she had been really serious about any of them, and was willing to put in the effort, then I would have been willing to pay more and/or drive further for higher level training — although even then it would be more around middle school age, not at 7.

 

This was very similar my son’s journey with his sport and our approach. He didn’t actually start until 7 because that is the youngest his organization allowed. He was passionate about it right from the start and it quickly became apparent he was quite talented, but for many years we were only paying about $100 per month for unlimited classes and we could walk, bike, or drive to the location. While the costs did increase somewhat later as he started doing national competitions and invitation only camps and traveling to a nearby city for some of his training, the sport also provided him with tons of amazing leadership opportunities as he progressed, so it wasn’t just about the sport anymore. Although due to geography he couldn’t continue the sport during college (it’s not a college sport) and his time overseas, it is part of his life again because he now works near one of the top training locations.

[teachermom2834]

You know @Ting TangI think you might just have to own this is a nutty thing your family does but you just like it and value it and you are going to do it! 
 

You have posted about it a few times and basically everyone tells you what you are doing is not rational. But you really like it and don’t want to give it up. I think many of us have had things in our lives that we admit don’t make a lot of sense on paper but we like them and do them anyways. 
 

So maybe you just have to put on your crazy hat and own it when it comes to this activity. Because I don’t think you are ever going to get the lot of us to throw in on this being a good idea. But that is ok! I have some things I wear my crazy hat on…I just don’t ask for anyone to tell me it looks normal 😊

I’m not saying this to pick on you…but when you come here and ask opinions on this we are going to tell you it is crazy. Every time. So maybe just put on the crazy hat and enjoy it. 

[catz]

Locally, a child that age could do like 3-5 hours of dance or tumbling PER WEEK at a high quality studio for like 1/3 to 1/2 the price and I'm not in a low COL area by any stretch.  Even if this particular activity is the be all end all and you come back around to it, I can't imagine a kid that was active and moving and learning body awareness and control would be hurt at all and might actually benefit from more hours in a group setting.  That can be a good social outlet for an active and social homeschooling child too, it was for my daughter for a number of years even though her extracurricular interests have diverged though she still does do some dsance.

 

[Ting Tang]

51 minutes ago, Frances said:

This was very similar my son’s journey with his sport and our approach. He didn’t actually start until 7 because that is the youngest his organization allowed. He was passionate about it right from the start and it quickly became apparent he was quite talented, but for many years we were only paying about $100 per month for unlimited classes and we could walk, bike, or drive to the location. While the costs did increase somewhat later as he started doing national competitions and invitation only camps and traveling to a nearby city for some of his training, the sport also provided him with tons of amazing leadership opportunities as he progressed, so it wasn’t just about the sport anymore. Although due to geography he couldn’t continue the sport during college (it’s not a college sport) and his time overseas, it is part of his life again because he now works near one of the top training locations.

That is wonderful he was able to come back to it!  I think even when something is a college sport, it is not always the easiest to incorporate at that time in life.  

[Ting Tang]

45 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

You know @Ting TangI think you might just have to own this is a nutty thing your family does but you just like it and value it and you are going to do it! 
 

You have posted about it a few times and basically everyone tells you what you are doing is not rational. But you really like it and don’t want to give it up. I think many of us have had things in our lives that we admit don’t make a lot of sense on paper but we like them and do them anyways. 
 

So maybe you just have to put on your crazy hat and own it when it comes to this activity. Because I don’t think you are ever going to get the lot of us to throw in on this being a good idea. But that is ok! I have some things I wear my crazy hat on…I just don’t ask for anyone to tell me it looks normal 😊

I’m not saying this to pick on you…but when you come here and ask opinions on this we are going to tell you it is crazy. Every time. So maybe just put on the crazy hat and enjoy it. 

LOL  Yep, I think a lot about it is irrational, ha ha!  My husband and I have had many conversations about it.  Fortunately, he is somewhat supportive of the crazy part of it.  However, both of us think it is not a good idea to double the cost of the lesson itself for an elite space that isn't entirely necessary.  Maybe I should just wear the crazy hat and own it, lol.  I am probably willing to do some things, though, that others aren't.  When I worked in nonprofit, I commuted a lot.  And even when I moved to a rural area, I commuted.  So driving doesn't always bother me, but it does cost.

[Ting Tang]

19 minutes ago, catz said:

Locally, a child that age could do like 3-5 hours of dance or tumbling PER WEEK at a high quality studio for like 1/3 to 1/2 the price and I'm not in a low COL area by any stretch.  Even if this particular activity is the be all end all and you come back around to it, I can't imagine a kid that was active and moving and learning body awareness and control would be hurt at all and might actually benefit from more hours in a group setting.  That can be a good social outlet for an active and social homeschooling child too, it was for my daughter for a number of years even though her extracurricular interests have diverged though she still does do some dsance.

 

Oh yes!  Our local dance studio honestly doesn't even have opportunities for girls her age to dance 3 hours.  It is ballet/jazz combo and separate tap.  No hip hop, lyrical, etc.  You go through a certain number of levels and then it is pre-pointe.  I kinda love the simplicity of it.  But the group setting I do find essential because of homeschooling.  

[itsheresomewhere]

Just a thought- if they have to say they are just practicing when arriving at the gym, does that mean she actually won’t be teaching just guiding.  At the gym I am part of, it is common for the manager/owner/whoever is in charge to pop in and take a look at the classes going on.  Since she is skirting the rules and having the kids lie, she might not really teach to keep from being caught.  I would definitely find out if I decided to continue.  Otherwise, try something new. 

[KungFuPanda]

3 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

You know @Ting TangI think you might just have to own this is a nutty thing your family does but you just like it and value it and you are going to do it! 
 

You have posted about it a few times and basically everyone tells you what you are doing is not rational. But you really like it and don’t want to give it up. I think many of us have had things in our lives that we admit don’t make a lot of sense on paper but we like them and do them anyways. 
 

So maybe you just have to put on your crazy hat and own it when it comes to this activity. Because I don’t think you are ever going to get the lot of us to throw in on this being a good idea. But that is ok! I have some things I wear my crazy hat on…I just don’t ask for anyone to tell me it looks normal 😊

I’m not saying this to pick on you…but when you come here and ask opinions on this we are going to tell you it is crazy. Every time. So maybe just put on the crazy hat and enjoy it. 

I like how we’re all invested in maintaining the anonymity of this sport in print like it’s a state secret?  I know we’ve all flipped through the possibilities in our heads and have zoned in on this sport.