Oscars/Will Smith

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

IDK. To me it felt like vigilante justice. Wrong but still satisfying. 

I usually agree with you, Mercy, but not on this one. 😞 

If Chris Rock had walked over to Jada Smith and slapped her, I would not have blamed Will Smith for physically protecting her, but Chris Rock told a one-line joke. Since when does that merit physical assault? 

What kind of example is Will Smith setting for kids who admire him? He wasn't heroic. He was a special snowflake who couldn't stand it when someone said something he didn't like. If he wanted to confront Chris Rock and explain why the joke was so offensive to him, he could have (and should have) done that after the show. There was absolutely no excuse for his ridiculous, grandstanding, egotistical, arrogant reaction to one little joke that was told among many other similar jokes. Nobody else rushed on to the stage to smack Chris Rock. Because they were behaving like adults, not like a toddler having a tantrum.

I thought Will Smith's behavior was completely disgraceful and inexcusable.

[KSera]

15 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Since when does that merit physical assault? 

In Mercy’s defense, she said it was wrong. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, KSera said:

In Mercy’s defense, she said it was wrong. 

Yes, but she also said it was satisfying.

I totally disagree with her about that.

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

There's nothing satisfying about watching another successful, grown-ass black man be physically assaulted on national TV to assuage someone else's bruised ego.

Okay. I said I knew it was wrong. But it's not the first time Rock has used Jada Smith as the butt of a joke. He had *something* coming. Absolutely Will Smith should have chosen a better response. But it feels satisfying to see something done in the moment when someone is being mean. 

Again, just saying how it feels to me, not that it is the right feeling to have.

Edited March 29, 2022 by MercyA

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Okay. I said I knew it was wrong. But it's not the first time Rock has used Jada Smith as the butt of a joke. He had *something* coming. Absolutely Will Smith should have chosen a better response. But it's feels satisfying to see something done in the moment when someone is being mean. 

Again, just saying how it feels to me, not that it is the right feeling to have.

I, obvs., disagree but I hear you on that. That's not the way to handle your business. There's no need to telegraph or televise your every move. In this case...my people talk to your people and the issue is squashed.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Moonhawk]

22 hours ago, Terabith said:

I also finding myself wondering how much of Will Smith's response is because assaulting someone for saying something mean about a loved one is what many of the characters that he has played would have done?  

I think Smith was 100% wrong.  

And yet, my heart kinda cheered when he did it.  I'm not proud of that reaction, but it was there.  

 

26 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Okay. I said I knew it was wrong. But it's not the first time Rock has used Jada Smith as the butt of a joke. He had *something* coming. Absolutely Will Smith should have chosen a better response. But it feels satisfying to see something done in the moment when someone is being mean. 

Again, just saying how it feels to me, not that it is the right feeling to have.

I had written this whole thing then you posted it in one sentence! It's not necessarily the violence, but the immediacy of consequence. 

I think a lot of the cognitive dissonance comes from the fact that we want there to be consequences for bad behavior, and we want to know they are actually suffered because we like "swift justice". Sure WS or JPS could have released a statement then next morning about how she was hurt and encourages others to learn about this condition and please donate to this charity, but seeing an immediate consequence for something out of line is satisfying in a way that reading about a public apology 4 days after the fact is not. 

Even if the long-term consequences to the person are worse than the immediate, it doesn't give the same satisfaction. "He got away with it!" is still what you'll feel when you think about that particular incident.

So we have this weird reaction because we wanted something to happen, just not that something.

You probably would have had the same reaction if they had just stood up and walked out in protest instead and caused a scene that way. So it probably wasn't the violence as much as the immediacy.

The problem is that a lot of people don't stop to process the whys behind their satisfactory feeling, then jump to conclusions of what's acceptable based off what feels satisfactory --> violence must be acceptable because it feels right.

[Murphy101]

I think there should have been immediate consequences for such tacky mean-spirited joking at someone else’s expense.

But if the Smiths had really wanted to make a lasting powerful impact - what they should have done is immediately calmly quietly stand up and leave.

Comedians need to know when they aren’t being funny people won’t just keep smiling and listening to it.

Especially in this case. I mean there’s really no negative to the Smiths not accepting yet another award and a lot of impact to their lack of presence.

I’ve said this for years. Get up and turn away and or walk away. Until people start doing that, the bad behavior continues bc it doesn’t affect the pocket books. 

[Melissa Louise]

5 hours ago, thewellerman said:

Thank you!  I am desperately trying to teach my children to see deeper, but I find it is hard because it is such an individual thing.  The feeling and responses to varying situations are processed through the totality of the speaker's experiences, many of which my children cannot begin to imagine.  We have extensively learned about the culture of the deep south, and how so much of that still influences thoughts and behaviors today.  Street culture is the next thing on my list to study with them, but I am much less confident because my knowledge comes mainly from distant exposures and impressions, or other people's reactions to those situations.  I find sorting through the hurt to the big picture difficult, and I want to be sure I am giving them as an objective look as possible.

Sorry for the detour OP.  In context of this conversation about Will Smith's actions, I do think it is incredibly relevant.  Sometimes it is really hard to answer WHY someone would do something so shocking, and we seek to make excuses or explanations, and then try to extrapolate rightness or wrongness from that understanding. I think both things can sit side by side.  Will Smith shouldn't have smacked him, but the only way to really address the real issue is by looking at how it happened.  The conversation can be like an onion, with questions like if CR knew she had a medical condition, should people joke like that, who is responsible for protecting their own feelings, etc etc, all being layers.  All of these things are really distractions from the root cause, and really understanding the motivations of both men in the moment.  Without the whole picture, it is easy to make rules and sweeping judgements that are only band-aids and consolation punishments, designed to assuage anger and guilt from an unfortunate circumstance. 

You know whose responsibility it is to understand the antecedents of a man's choice to behave violently? 

His. His and his therapist/counsellor/other trusted person. Scholars who study and seek to prevent violence. 

The rest of us (women and children particularly, but not only women and children) have every right to give a blanket no to 'understand'.

I am well aware you would never think this, so am not suggesting you are saying this, but the suggestion we spend a moment of time 'contextualising' an act of violence in lieu of abhoring it reminds me of the way media responds when a man kills his wife - exploring what 'made him do it', as if he was pushed, as if it wasn't always a choice. 

Smith wasnt 'driven' by culture or anything else to enact physical violence. He chose to participate in it. 

 

[Catwoman]

47 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Okay. I said I knew it was wrong. But it's not the first time Rock has used Jada Smith as the butt of a joke. He had *something* coming. Absolutely Will Smith should have chosen a better response. But it feels satisfying to see something done in the moment when someone is being mean. 

Again, just saying how it feels to me, not that it is the right feeling to have.

But so what if he has made jokes about her before? He has literally made jokes about hundreds of different people over the years, so what makes her so special that he has to treat her differently than he treats everyone else? For heaven’s sake, late night TV hosts make jokes about celebrities every single night of the week. Should people start punching them in the face because of that?

Why would a comedian have “something coming” because someone can’t handle being joked about?

It was one very brief line, and no one would have paid the slightest attention to it had Will Smith not made it into a big drama. And because Chris Rock didn’t even know that Jada Smith had alopecia, that joke was particularly innocuous. She is a very buff woman with extremely short hair, so under normal circumstances, the G.I. Jane joke wouldn’t have even been considered insulting. 

[Melissa Louise]

50 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Okay. I said I knew it was wrong. But it's not the first time Rock has used Jada Smith as the butt of a joke. He had *something* coming. Absolutely Will Smith should have chosen a better response. But it feels satisfying to see something done in the moment when someone is being mean. 

Again, just saying how it feels to me, not that it is the right feeling to have.

How could it be satisfying to you? You are the most anti-violence person on the board? I do not understand this. 

 I continue to fail to understand how a joke ( cruel, tasteless or otherwise) constitutes a verbal assault which requires vigilante justice. 

Remember Charlie Hebdo? That's the logical end of violence being used to avenge horrible humour.

Hitting and verbal abuse is used to control others through fear. I hope CR isn't afraid to tell whatever jokes he wants in his set.

In return, I'm free to dislike the jokes, object verbally to the jokes, write better jokes, walk out on the joke, critique the joke ( and fwiw, this joke wasn't remotely funny, so no sure I'd care to attend a CR show). 

What I'm not free to do is hit him, and then continue to issue threats from my seat. 

 

 

[Murphy101]

I do not believe that all violence is wrong. Because I do think some things are worth fighting for.

And there is legal precedence for inciting a violent provocation.

I suspect a man being slapped by another man is more insult than violence to most men. Like Chris wasn’t man enough to warrant a fist.

And unlike just leaving would have kept the focus on what Chris did wrong, now it’s all about Will saying sorry to Chris. Notice no need to apologize to Jada seems forthcoming. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Murphy101

[Danae]

I think it would be delightful if the committee in charge of planning the ceremony would decide that having a shock-comedian roast audience members is not the entertainment they want for their awards show going forward.  Because being okay being made fun of should not be the price you have to pay to attend your industry’s professional events, especially if you are being honored.  It’s not like choosing to go to a comedy club where the jokes are the purpose of the evening.  But that’s not Chris Rock’s fault.  He was doing what he was engaged to do.  

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Danae said:

I think it would be delightful if the committee in charge of planning the ceremony would decide that having a shock-comedian roast audience members is not the entertainment they want for their awards show going forward.  Because being okay being made fun of should not be the price you have to pay to attend your industry’s professional events, especially if you are being honored.  It’s not like choosing to go to a comedy club where the jokes are the purpose of the evening.  But that’s not Chris Rock’s fault.  He was doing what he was engaged to do.  

Certainly a possibility, and yet, NO ONE WOULD WATCH.

[Melissa Louise]

8 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I have some friends that I’ve actually said something similar to and had a great discussion(because it does, to me, feel rooted in sexism).  I also have a couple other friends who are telling their white friends to be quiet and listen, and I respect that.

This probably is irrelevant, but listening to diverse voices, even when I disagree, is something I’m trying to get better at.  A few weeks ago I spoke at an Emergency Medical Services conference.  Like many organizations, EMS has traditionally been men only and women have only begun really making inroads in the last 15 years.  I was sitting at a table with just men having lunch and the discussion turned to misogyny in the fire and EMS world.  They assured me that it’s gone, because there are(very few) women fire chiefs of large fire departments and many women paramedics now. 
I was the lone woman, and no one wanted to hear my voice.  No one wanted to hear the sexism and misogyny I experience at work daily, from patients(especially older women, surprisingly, complain a lot when an all female crew shows up. I had one lady demand we call the fire department to carry her out because she didn’t believe we could do it), from management and supervisors. Sure, it’s subtle, but it’s still there.  But I was drowned out by men patting themselves on the back for eradicating misogyny and sexism in the fire service, when the lone woman is there trying to say no, you just don’t see it or experience it because what’s normal for you is sexist to me. Since then, I’ve tried to be much more careful about actually listening to people, even when I completely disagree.  Like I said, it’s probably irrelevant, but that experience made me much more careful to just listen.

Sure. I read the post. I disagree. 

Thinking negatively about WS's actions is not racism. Racism is when WSs actions are generalised to Black men as a group. Or when a person would praise a white man for the same violence they would condemn in a Black man. 

Yes, I have seen the posts telling white women to shut their mouths about it. 

Nope.

Male violence is all our concern. 

(Which doesn't mean we can't choose to amplify Black women who have good points to make about the incident).

Many men, including Black men, make the choice to behave non-violently. Many men, including Black men, don't. 

In this case, WS happens to be Black, but violent men come in all colours, there's no doubt about that.

And sadly, it seems many women of all races continue to make excuses for them/romanticize their actions. 

 

 

[SKL]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Certainly a possibility, and yet, NO ONE WOULD WATCH.

What a tragedy that would be.

[Melissa Louise]

Am I really the only person who felt sorry for CR in the aftermath? 

He was clearly shocked, and struggled to regain his thoughts. I am grateful that whenever I've had to deal with a physical or verbal assault, I haven't been standing alone on a stage in front of an audience.  I really feel for him. 

Yes, he tells dickish jokes. I still feel sorry for any victim of an assault. 

He did a good job of covering and continuing, but why did no-one go up on stage to provide support? 

 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

Am I really the only person who felt sorry for CR in the aftermath? 

He was clearly shocked, and struggled to regain his thoughts. I am grateful that whenever I've had to deal with a physical or verbal assault, I haven't been standing alone on a stage in front of an audience.  I really feel for him. 

Yes, he tells dickish jokes. I still feel sorry for any victim of an assault. 

He did a good job of covering and continuing, but why did no-one go up on stage to provide support? 

 

I thought he was remarkably composed and gracious. He could have stooped to Will Smith's level and yelled and cursed, but he didn't. He could have feigned injury and played the part of the victim, but he didn't do that, either. He made a little joke about it and moved on. 

 

[teachermom2834]

24 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I thought he was remarkably composed and gracious. He could have stooped to Will Smith's level and yelled and cursed, but he didn't. He could have feigned injury and played the part of the victim, but he didn't do that, either. He made a little joke about it and moved on. 

 

Yeah he really could have escalated the situation. With all the things JPS has been public about regarding their marriage, and CR being used to telling nasty jokes on the fly, he really could have gotten down in the gutter and said some really crude stuff in response to WS’s outburst. 
 

And if he had egged WS on and WS had really beat the crap out of him the damage to WS’s career would have been alot more and he would have had to have been escorted out of there. So CR really did take the high road after the fact. He made a joke and carried on even though he was shook up. He didn’t escalate. He didn’t call for security. 

 

[Sneezyone]

38 minutes ago, SKL said:

What a tragedy that would be.

For those who make their livings that way, yes, yes it would be.

[Sneezyone]

57 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Sure. I read the post. I disagree. 

Thinking negatively about WS's actions is not racism. Racism is when WSs actions are generalised to Black men as a group. Or when a person would praise a white man for the same violence they would condemn in a Black man. 

Yes, I have seen the posts telling white women to shut their mouths about it. 

Nope.

Male violence is all our concern. 

(Which doesn't mean we can't choose to amplify Black women who have good points to make about the incident).

Many men, including Black men, make the choice to behave non-violently. Many men, including Black men, don't. 

In this case, WS happens to be Black, but violent men come in all colours, there's no doubt about that.

And sadly, it seems many women of all races continue to make excuses for them/romanticize their actions. 

 

 

Of course not. I specifically referenced him and his family in my comments. He's the real victim here, regardless of how people feel about his joke and the Smith family drama.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Corraleno]

11 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Yeah he really could have escalated the situation. With all the things JPS has been public about regarding their marriage, and CR being used to telling nasty jokes on the fly, he really could have gotten down in the gutter and said some really crude stuff in response to WS’s outburst. 

Yeah, no kidding — at the BAFTAs last month Rebel Wilson joked that she thought "Will Smith's best performance was pretending to be OK with all of Jada's boyfriends." There are so many worse digs CR could have thrown back at WS if he really wanted to. But he chose not to go there.

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Yeah, no kidding — at the BAFTAs last month Rebel Wilson joked that she thought "Will Smith's best performance was pretending to be OK with all of Jada's boyfriends." There are so many worse digs CR could have thrown back at WS if he really wanted to. But he chose not to go there.

FRFR, Rebel Wilson cracking on his limp masculinity is the zeitgeist right now. I have zero doubt that this had nothing to do with Chris Rock and his joke and everything to do with preexisting issues in that family.

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

How could it be satisfying to you? You are the most anti-violence person on the board? I do not understand this. 

Right? I appreciate that and recognize that it's not logical. It is a visceral reaction. There probably is some romanticizing of Smith's defense of his wife going on in my psyche. I can try to be as consistently anti-violence as possible and still be honest about what my first reaction to the whole thing was. 

I think @Moonhawk hit it on the head when she identified the *immediacy* of the consequence as satisfying (not that she was defending Smith, not at all). I'm sure I would have felt just as satisfied--more so--had Will Smith gotten up, responded verbally, and walked out. 

When my dad was in high school, someone made fun of a disabled classmate in the hallway. My dad told the guy to knock it off, and a fistfight ensued. It ended up with my dad getting in trouble with the principal, driving off the school property, and almost hitting the principal with his car by accident. My family loves to tell this story. We probably shouldn't, but it's satisfying.

I'm not saying the two situations are the same--obviously they are not--but there is something about a bully getting what's coming to them that humans enjoy, myself included.

Edited March 29, 2022 by MercyA

[Corraleno]

8 minutes ago, MercyA said:

there is something about a bully getting what's coming to them that humans enjoy, myself included.

But if you look at the wider context — that CR likely did not know the buzzcut was anything other than a style choice, and that WS's reaction had much less to do with CR's joke than it did with feeling powerless in a relationship with a woman he adores who treats him like a sibling instead of a husband — the whole spectacle is not about a bully getting his comeuppance, it's about an insecure man with a large ego trying to compensate for a seriously messed up marriage by assaulting someone who thought he was just making a hair joke. If CR's goal was really to insult JPS, he could have said MUCH more savage things.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

33 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Right? I appreciate that and recognize that it's not logical. It is a visceral reaction. There probably is some romanticizing of Smith's defense of his wife going on in my psyche. I can try to be as consistently anti-violence as possible and still be honest about what my first reaction to the whole thing was. 

I think @Moonhawk hit it on the head when she identified the *immediacy* of the consequence as satisfying (not that she was defending Smith, not at all). I'm sure I would have felt just as satisfied--more so--had Will Smith gotten up, responded verbally, and walked out. 

When my dad was in high school, someone made fun of a disabled classmate in the hallway. My dad told the guy to knock it off, and a fistfight ensued. It ended up with my dad getting in trouble with the principal, driving off the school property, and almost hitting the principal with his car by accident. My family loves to tell this story. We probably shouldn't, but it's satisfying.

I'm not saying the two situations are the same--obviously they are not--but there is something about a bully getting what's coming to them that humans enjoy, myself included.

Honestly(and as I said in the first post), I feel the same. There was something satisfying about it even if it’s wrong and not okay. But the more I think about it I agree with a PP that it’s really the immediacy of the act that I found most satisfying.  I would feel the same way if Will and Jada stood up and quietly walked out, which frankly would have made a bigger statement IMO and gotten the same point across.

[Grace Hopper]

I have not read every reply, but as The Slap is being covered everywhere still, it’s been on my mind. 
 

I’ve been wondering, what would the reaction have been if it had actually been Jada to quietly walk on stage, slap Rock, and walk off. Seems to me that would have been a whole different discussion. 

[livetoread]

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Am I really the only person who felt sorry for CR in the aftermath? 

I did, even though I still don't like his brand of humor. It really bugged me to read about how different celebrities huddled around the Smiths in the aftermath. What about CR? He was the one who had just been assaulted for Pete's sake. Did anyone check on him? Being a man and being slapped on live TV by a larger man in front of a huge audience had to be humiliating. I'm sure he has all sorts of feelings going on. Comforting the aggressor is well known thing for sure - just bugged me to see it play out like that.

[1234]

6 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I have not read every reply, but as The Slap is being covered everywhere still, it’s been on my mind. 
 

I’ve been wondering, what would the reaction have been if it had actually been Jada to quietly walk on stage, slap Rock, and walk off. Seems to me that would have been a whole different discussion. 

I would still think it was horribly wrong. A woman slapping him isn’t any different to me.

[Grace Hopper]

Just now, Joker2 said:

I would still think it was horribly wrong. A woman slapping him isn’t any different to me.

I agree! I’m just saying I imagine the overall conversation would be different. 

[Catwoman]

10 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I have not read every reply, but as The Slap is being covered everywhere still, it’s been on my mind. 
 

I’ve been wondering, what would the reaction have been if it had actually been Jada to quietly walk on stage, slap Rock, and walk off. Seems to me that would have been a whole different discussion. 

Yes, because then most of us would be talking about what an entitled, arrogant woman she was, instead of saying it about her husband. 😉 

 

[katilac]

21 hours ago, Catwoman said:

  — I want her to find a way to be able to brush off comments like that,  because I don’t like to see anyone feeling hurt or upset, or like there is something wrong with their appearance.  

Strong, confident people still get their feelings hurt. People who make a considered decision to not wear a head covering for baldness, to not cover birthmarks with makeup, and so on - these people might still get upset when someone reacts, but that does not mean they made the wrong decision. Feeling 'safe' because you cater to society's visions of normal is actually not a great feeling. 

I don't even think the Chris Rock joke was a terrible one and I don't think it was mocking her at all, but speaking in general terms: no, she shouldn't cover up as the surest way to not get any reactions. That's not necessarily the best in the long term. 

2 hours ago, Danae said:

I think it would be delightful if the committee in charge of planning the ceremony would decide that having a shock-comedian roast audience members is not the entertainment they want for their awards show going forward.  Because being okay being made fun of should not be the price you have to pay to attend your industry’s professional events, especially if you are being honored.  It’s not like choosing to go to a comedy club where the jokes are the purpose of the evening.  But that’s not Chris Rock’s fault.  He was doing what he was engaged to do.  

Chris Rock is not a shock comedian. Not even close. He is very much on the mild side. 

The jokes kind of are the purpose of the evening, or at least the purpose of watching. Awards shows are very boring if you don't add a lot of jokes. 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Yes, because then most of us would be talking about what an entitled, arrogant woman she was, instead of saying it about her husband. 😉 

 

I think she’s arrogant, entitled and full of herself regardless. The Red Table Talks are a pathetic imitation of journalism. IMHO, of course. That has nothing to do with my feelings about her spouse’s behavior. He was waaaayyyy over the line.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Corraleno]

13 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I’ve been wondering, what would the reaction have been if it had actually been Jada to quietly walk on stage, slap Rock, and walk off. Seems to me that would have been a whole different discussion. 

But she would never have done that, because that is the act of someone who has lost control, and Jada is all about control. And the fact that Will Smith did do it was basically an expression of his lack of control (both his lack of self control and his lack of agency in his "marriage").

[Catwoman]

Am I the only one who would like to know what Jada said to Will in the car on the way home? 😉 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

 

When my dad was in high school, someone made fun of a disabled classmate in the hallway. My dad told the guy to knock it off, and a fistfight ensued. It ended up with my dad getting in trouble with the principal, driving off the school property, and almost hitting the principal with his car by accident. My family loves to tell this story. We probably shouldn't, but it's satisfying.

I'm not saying the two situations are the same--obviously they are not--but there is something about a bully getting what's coming to them that humans enjoy, myself included.

See, this was what was missing for me to actually find this normal if inappropriate behavior. there was no "knock it off" moment, no escalation process. 

But again, maybe that is a cultural thing. 

6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

But she would never have done that, because that is the act of someone who has lost control, and Jada is all about control. And the fact that Will Smith did do it was basically an expression of his lack of control (both his lack of self control and his lack of agency in his "marriage").

This. I'm not totally against violence, but I don't respect losing control of oneself. Controlled violence, made as a decision, maybe sometimes. But not out of control behavior. 

[Kassia]

33 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

 

I’ve been wondering, what would the reaction have been if it had actually been Jada to quietly walk on stage, slap Rock, and walk off. Seems to me that would have been a whole different discussion. 

I wonder what would have happened if it were a female who said that about Jada instead of a male.  What would Will Smith have done?

[Scarlett]

12 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

 

I linked an article by a Black woman from a Black publication with an entirely Not This perspective earlier in the thread. 

Here it is again. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/andscape.com/features/will-smiths-slap-at-the-oscars-wasnt-protecting-anyone-certainly-not-his-wife/amp/

In my opinion, Soraya McDonald nails it. 

 

I don’t get this at all….just one more reason I dislike Jada. 

<<<As Smith’s stardom grew, his wife would wake up many mornings in tears. At one point, she turned down an opportunity for her band to open for Guns N’ Roses so that Smith could continue shooting The Pursuit of Happyness. Things reached a breaking point by Jada’s 40th birthday, in 2011. Will had spent three years planning a private family-and-friends dinner in Santa Fe, where he screened a documentary he’d commissioned that chronicled her life and traced her family’s lineage back to slavery (and in which he tracked down a descendant of the white family who once owned Jada’s ancestors).

When they got back to the hotel suite that night, Jada was nearly silent. “That was the most disgusting display of ego I have ever seen in my life,” Smith recalls his wife telling him.>>>

 

I hit enter too soon. I don’t think it was right at all that WS reacted like he did.  And I can’t for the life of me see the race issue….but she seems very toxic and difficult to me.  

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

12 hours ago, MrsMommy said:

Why is this form of comedy that mocks others expected, accepted, and even encouraged? Removing the particular incident, I don't understand why society is still tolerating that as a comedy form...it seems very junior high to me, and if you can't make people laugh with making fun of someone else, maybe you're just not that funny.

My thought exactly.  I think it all of the time.,  I HATE the comedy of crass and vulgar and mean comedians.  

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

But if you look at the wider context — that CR likely did not know the buzzcut was anything other than a style choice, and that WS's reaction had much less to do with CR's joke than it did with feeling powerless in a relationship with a woman he adores who treats him like a sibling instead of a husband — the whole spectacle is not about a bully getting his comeuppance, it's about an insecure man with a large ego trying to compensate for a seriously messed up marriage by assaulting someone who thought he was just making a hair joke. If CR's goal was really to insult JPS, he could have said MUCH more savage things.

Yep.  

[Scarlett]

50 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I think she’s arrogant, entitled and full of herself regardless. The Red Table Talks are a pathetic imitation of journalism. IMHO, of course. That has nothing to do with my feelings about her spouse’s behavior. He was waaaayyyy over the line.

This exactly. 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Am I really the only person who felt sorry for CR in the aftermath? 

He was clearly shocked, and struggled to regain his thoughts. I am grateful that whenever I've had to deal with a physical or verbal assault, I haven't been standing alone on a stage in front of an audience.  I really feel for him. 

Yes, he tells dickish jokes. I still feel sorry for any victim of an assault. 

He did a good job of covering and continuing, but why did no-one go up on stage to provide support? 

 

 

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

I thought he was remarkably composed and gracious. He could have stooped to Will Smith's level and yelled and cursed, but he didn't. He could have feigned injury and played the part of the victim, but he didn't do that, either. He made a little joke about it and moved on. 

 

I agree. He was clearly shocked and almost speechless…but he recovered and carried on graciously.  (I still don’t like mean jokes)

[chocolate-chip chooky]

9 hours ago, bibiche said:

Excuse the intrusion, but is this a typo? Because if it isn’t I would be so grateful if you would elaborate. 

Sounds like a Carl Hiassen novel 

 

ETA: for context, this is referring to @ktgrok's mention of assault using a swordfish

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by chocolate-chip chooky

[Grace Hopper]

43 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I wonder what would have happened if it were a female who said that about Jada instead of a male.  What would Will Smith have done?

Yes, I imagine that’s another scenario that would have changed events/conversation. 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t get this at all….just one more reason I dislike Jada. 

<<<As Smith’s stardom grew, his wife would wake up many mornings in tears. At one point, she turned down an opportunity for her band to open for Guns N’ Roses so that Smith could continue shooting The Pursuit of Happyness. Things reached a breaking point by Jada’s 40th birthday, in 2011. Will had spent three years planning a private family-and-friends dinner in Santa Fe, where he screened a documentary he’d commissioned that chronicled her life and traced her family’s lineage back to slavery (and in which he tracked down a descendant of the white family who once owned Jada’s ancestors).

When they got back to the hotel suite that night, Jada was nearly silent. “That was the most disgusting display of ego I have ever seen in my life,” Smith recalls his wife telling him.>>>

I hit enter too soon. I don’t think it was right at all that WS reacted like he did.  And I can’t for the life of me see the race issue….but she seems very toxic and difficult to me.  

It's really sad to see/hear/read about how hard he tries to make her happy, yet nothing he does is ever good enough. When the marriage was floundering and he was afraid she'd divorce him, he says he "read 50 marriage books" trying to find the way to fix it, while Jada chose to "find herself" by having an extended affair with her son's best friend, who was half her age and had moved into their home while struggling with physical and mental health issues (nothing predatory about that!). And then she makes him sit there while she publicly humiliates him by gushing about how good the affair made her feel, and how much "joy" it brought her to be part of August's "healing journey" — as if cheating on your husband with your son's best friend is not only perfectly normal but some sort of noble calling. It's not hard to imagine what was going through his head after he laughed at the GI Jane joke, then saw Jada's glare and thought "Oh shit, I'm disappointing her again, just like I always do, what can I do in the next 2 seconds to prove I'm 'man enough' for her???" 

[happi duck]

11 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

It's really sad to see/hear/read about how hard he tries to make her happy, yet nothing he does is ever good enough. When the marriage was floundering and he was afraid she'd divorce him, he says he "read 50 marriage books" trying to find the way to fix it, while Jada chose to "find herself" by having an extended affair with her son's best friend, who was half her age and had moved into their home while struggling with physical and mental health issues (nothing predatory about that!). And then she makes him sit there while she publicly humiliates him by gushing about how good the affair made her feel, and how much "joy" it brought her to be part of August's "healing journey" — as if cheating on your husband with your son's best friend is not only perfectly normal but some sort of noble calling. It's not hard to imagine what was going through his head after he laughed at the GI Jane joke, then saw Jada's glare and thought "Oh shit, I'm disappointing her again, just like I always do, what can I do in the next 2 seconds to prove I'm 'man enough' for her???" 

I did not know what "August" referenced before reading your post...yikes!

[Sneezyone]

57 minutes ago, happi duck said:

I did not know what "August" referenced before reading your post...yikes!

Oh yea, it’s a whole thing. His ‘manhood’ has been in question for years. He seized an opportunity to reclaim it (epic fail). It was totally out of character.  They are the epitome of unequally yoked to me. There’s A LOT of (TMI) history that has nothing to do with CR.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Jean in Newcastle]

5 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Am I really the only person who felt sorry for CR in the aftermath? 

He was clearly shocked, and struggled to regain his thoughts. I am grateful that whenever I've had to deal with a physical or verbal assault, I haven't been standing alone on a stage in front of an audience.  I really feel for him. 

Yes, he tells dickish jokes. I still feel sorry for any victim of an assault. 

He did a good job of covering and continuing, but why did no-one go up on stage to provide support? 

 

Chris Rock showed remarkable self restraint. A slap to the face often elicits a very visceral reaction and to ignore the instinct to lash back was admirable. Too bad Will Smith hadn’t shown similar restraint to begin with. I see absolute nothing admirable in Smith’s reaction. It wasn’t chivalrous. It wasn’t  “satisfying “. It was the reaction of a toddler. 

[Danae]

Two other people in the audience who deserve a particular apology are Venus and Serena Williams.  They were there to see him receive an award for playing their father, and in his attempt to make his acceptance speech relevant both to what he’d just done and the role he dragged them into his mess.

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

It's really sad to see/hear/read about how hard he tries to make her happy, yet nothing he does is ever good enough. When the marriage was floundering and he was afraid she'd divorce him, he says he "read 50 marriage books" trying to find the way to fix it, while Jada chose to "find herself" by having an extended affair with her son's best friend, who was half her age and had moved into their home while struggling with physical and mental health issues (nothing predatory about that!). And then she makes him sit there while she publicly humiliates him by gushing about how good the affair made her feel, and how much "joy" it brought her to be part of August's "healing journey" — as if cheating on your husband with your son's best friend is not only perfectly normal but some sort of noble calling. It's not hard to imagine what was going through his head after he laughed at the GI Jane joke, then saw Jada's glare and thought "Oh shit, I'm disappointing her again, just like I always do, what can I do in the next 2 seconds to prove I'm 'man enough' for her???" 

so this man’s bad behaviour or the consequence of two men‘s bad behaviour if Chris Rock knowingly made the joke, is really a woman’s fault?

Not justifying her history of course, but I’m surprised to see the conversation here take that turn. First it’s her fault for not wearing a head scarf then it’s her fault for not letting Will have enough control in the marriage?

Im not saying it’s wrong, but I’m surprised. However I haven’t followed them closely so maybe that’s why.

And added to that he starred in a movie about two famous female tennis stars and the title of the movie is about their father and the award show became about the male actor who played him.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Jean in Newcastle]

27 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

so this man’s bad behaviour or the consequence of two men‘s bad behaviour if Chris Rock knowingly made the joke, is really a woman’s fault?

Not justifying her history of course, but I’m surprised to see the conversation here take that turn. First it’s her fault for not wearing a head scarf then it’s her fault for not letting Will have enough control in the marriage?

Im not saying it’s wrong, but I’m surprised. However I haven’t followed them closely so maybe that’s why.

And added to that he starred in a movie about two famous female tennis stars and the title of the movie is about their father and the award show became about the male actor who played him.

Chris Rock did not make an alopecia joke. He didn’t put Jada’s appearance down. Yes, I can see how someone would not want any attention brought to them at all in the circumstance (though Jada doesn’t tend to fit that mold and Chris Rock surely knows her reputation) but his joke was within the norm for the event.