“The Covid vaccines aren’t truly vaccines”

[Ginevra]

“…they are ‘immunity boosters’.” 
 

I don’t feel confident enough in my knowledge of microbiology to dispute this in simplistic terms. What would you say to someone who makes a statement like this? 
 

In the moment I said, “They are ‘true’ vaccines; they just require herd immunity the same way Measles and Pertussis do, which we cannot achieve when all these jackwagons are refusing vaccines.” 

[Katy]

Don’t bother. Pearls before swine and all that.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

Don’t bother. Pearls before swine and all that.

I heard that. This was my boss, though, who was cross-examining me on why I was trying to find home test kits. 🙄

[vonfirmath]

This is sort of my reasoning for getting the flu shot every year, even knowing that it was not often well correlated to the strain circulating.  That it would be helpful even if you caught the strain that WAS circulating in helping to fight it.

 

(And I'm not sure i understand the distinction. Isn't that by definition what a vaccine does -- boost your immunity toward a particular pathogen?)

 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by vonfirmath

[EKS]

What exactly does this person think a vaccine is?

Edited December 22, 2021 by EKS

[BusyMom5]

If the purpose of a vaccine is to teach your immune system to recognize a virus and have a strategy to fight it, then they would be immune boosters.  I have always considered them temporary and not 100%  They do help,  but if you are thinking you will not get a particular virus just bx you are vaxed, you are wrong.  That isn't how vaccines work.  They do not stay in your body and fight- they teach your immune system how to fight.  It can take a few "lessons" and if the virus mutates, it still may not be recognized.  You still get the virus when you are exposed- your body just starts fight it quicker.  If you are lucky, that's before the virus has made you ill.  

[kbutton]

At least he isn't calling them gene therapy. That's the line around here. 

[Pam in CT]

"Boosting immunity" is LITERALLY what vaccines do.

 

No True Scotsman, and No True Vaccine. 

Sometimes you just have to Just Say Oh.

[Tanaqui]

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not "vaccines" in the sense of containing a bit of the virus itself. Instead, they contain instructions to your cells on how to make the proteins similar to the ones the virus makes. That trains your body to attack the virus.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

This is a relatively new technology, and some people find the idea a little scary - mostly simply because it's new, and because that makes it a good target for anxiety they're already feeling.

The people going on about how they're not "real" vaccines aren't saying this because they're overly pedantic or interested in facts. They're saying it to discredit the vaccines themselves, for a whole host of possible reasons that have more to do with their feelings than with any calm and rigorous logic. There's not much point trying to correct them with facts. The better approach is to identify their feelings, affirm them, and then move from there. This seems like a backwards and bizarre approach, but you have a better chance of success.

[Katy]

Ok so the real answer (and keep in mind this is from a nursing perspective not a microbiology perspective)…. Immunity boosters are things that boost your immune system. People with HIV used to use a lot of them… until we got medicines that actually suppress the virus and then they could stop with all the stuff that might help.

In terms of this virus things that might help include things like: vitamin D, melatonin and turmeric. These things have shown a strong correlation to help, whether we understand the precise mechanism or not. They’re also all anti-inflammatory and may prevent your immune system from getting into a cytokine storm and killing you in the process.  They aren’t specific to this virus, but there seems to be some evidence they help your immune system fight the virus. 

The vaccine, however, is a real vaccine. All vaccines work pretty much the same way: they teach your body to recognize something about the specific infection it’s trying to prevent and attack it. In most vaccines that means it takes chopped up pieces of a virus and puts an adjuvant in with the virus. The adjuvant is irritating so your immune system notices it and attacks everything in the area. In the process it learns those viral particles are a danger and that teaches your immune system to watch for it.  If you get a flu shot, even if it’s only a 30% match for the circulating variants that year, when you catch the flu your body will notice the 30% that does match and attack it much faster than it would without the vaccine. So much so that in most people they might never have symptoms at all, or only have symptoms of a minor cold instead of the full blown flu. 

Similarly, live vaccines actually infect your nose and throat with the virus. But those vaccines have been genetically modified to die at high temperatures. So they thrive in your nose and throat, but die in your warmer lungs. This is why it’s not a good idea for someone with low thyroid function to take a live vaccine- their body temperature runs colder so they can get really sick.  Unless they get a fever, or induce one by sitting in a hot bath or sauna. Or even the sun on a hot day. 

Anyway for Covid 19, these vaccines work the same way.  Your body produces a spike protein for a few days with the mRNA version, or gets injected with the dna for it for the other versions, the body recognizes it as foreign, learns to attack anything with a spike protein. Just like all vaccines. 
 

And frankly your boss KNOWS that and is just being provocative. 

[Dmmetler]

I saw a post on FB that pointed out that if we swabbed every wound for tetanus or every runny nose and slight cough for Pertussus, you'd get some number of those coming up positive-but the reason why the people don't actually get tetanus or whooping cough is that the vaccine WORKS. The same is true when you're getting positives for COVID in vaccinated people that are asymptomatic or are very slightly symptomatic. The vaccine has worked it's magic and the immune system is, as a result, resistant to the infection. The only reason why it is a concern that there ARE these asymptomatic or slightly symptomatic vaccinated folks around is that there is a much larger percentage of the population who is not yet able to be vaccinated, including all children below age 5, or who have chosen to not be vaccinated. (and since it looks extremely likely that this is actually a 3 dose series, not a 2 dose series, no one 5-15 is fully vaccinated in that sense yet, either-and 12-15 are mostly 6+ months out at this point).  No vaccine is a barrier against ever coming in contact with the organism, but against the infection really having a chance to take hold and cause damage. 

 

That makes sense to me-Cornell is testing everyone, and as a result, caught a LOT of cases that weren't at the level that you would go to campus health for them-and likely will never get there.  If the entire world were vaccinated at the level Cornell was, Cornell wouldn't be testing. 

 

 

[Faith-manor]

The staggering lack of understanding of basic knowledge about the immune system, vaccines, and communicable disease makes my brain twitch. This stuff was coveted in both my freshman high school biology class and in health class. I swear we have whole generations sleeping through school and memorizing "facts" for the test without learning a dang thing much less retaining any information. Sigh. 😡

[Storygirl]

My sister, who is fully vaccinated, told me that the vaccines aren't real vaccines but are like a flu shot. 🤷‍♀️

I think this comes from certain news media, which I don't watch. There are others in my extended family who think the Covid vaccines are evil and won't get them, so it wasn't worth bothering to argue with my sister over her comments. At least she got hers done.

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

What exactly does the person who said this think a vaccine is?

When it comes right down to it, that’s what vaccines are, immunity boosters. Apparently he disagrees with himself about which “immunity boosters” are important. 
 

Not worth your time discussing it. (If this was my dh, it would definitely be a discussion 😂 lol - but not my boss.)

[EKS]

12 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

When it comes right down to it, that’s what vaccines are, immunity boosters.

Exactly.

[busymama7]

I have heard several times that "they" changed the definition of a vaccine so they could call the covid shot a vaccine. No idea what that is supposed to mean and I'm kinda done with people over this stuff so don't ask. 

[wathe]

2 hours ago, EKS said:

What exactly does the person who said this think a vaccine is?

This.

If you are going to engage (and maybe you shouldn't), I think that you need to start by defining terms.  This is , of course, true for all debates, but especially for this one.  

Because of course it's a vaccine.  But also  is it a new kind of vaccine.  

I think that anti-vexers are trying to argue that because it isn't prepared in the traditional way with bits the causative agent but instead uses a synthetic substitute (synthesized viral genetic material), that makes somehow makes it not a vaccine.  It's a false argument though.  Vaccine development technology has been evolving since the very beginning.  Most vaccines these days nave nothing to do with cows......

[ktgrok]

There are a whole BUNCH of different kinds of vaccines - live, killed, recombinant DNA vector type, etc etc. This is a particular type of vaccine, but still a vaccine. 

(not that I care WHAT people call it, as long as they get it!)

Oh, and even worse? I heard on the Holy Post podcast that some weird right wing Christians are calling the vaccine sorcery because the greek word for medication and for sorcery have the same root or some such nonsense. 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

There are a whole BUNCH of different kinds of vaccines - live, killed, recombinant DNA vector type, etc etc. This is a particular type of vaccine, but still a vaccine. 

(not that I care WHAT people call it, as long as they get it!)

Oh, and even worse? I heard on the Holy Post podcast that some weird right wing Christians are calling the vaccine sorcery because the greek word for medication and for sorcery have the same root or some such nonsense. 

Probably the same people who thought Harry Potter books would lead to witchcraft. 

[prairiewindmomma]

This is an attorney? Socratic method him…

I would respond with, “Well, what is your immune system?” And then, “What would ‘boosting’ look like? How do you boost T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes?” 

A vaccine by definition is an immunity booster in the sense that it trains the immune system. 
 

If you don’t want to go there, I totally understand, but what he said sounds possibly misguided, not anti-vax. 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

I have heard several times that "they" changed the definition of a vaccine so they could call the covid shot a vaccine. No idea what that is supposed to mean and I'm kinda done with people over this stuff so don't ask. 

I believe this falls squarely into the Baffle Them With Bullsh!t category. 

[Momto6inIN]

It could be because in laymen's terms and in most of the general population's minds a traditional vaccine is designed to keep you from getting a certain disease. We get polio shots so we don't get polio, we get measles shots so we don't get measles, etc.

Eta: sorry wasn't done and pressed post

 

I've heard this before about flu shots too, that they might or might not keep you from getting the flu so they're not a "true" vaccine. I don't think it's a particularly anti vax sentiment. It just expresses the fact that the covid vax mitigates symptoms and spread, but doesn't actually keep you from getting a disease the way a polio or a measles shot does.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Momto6inIN

[goldberry]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

I have heard several times that "they" changed the definition of a vaccine so they could call the covid shot a vaccine. No idea what that is supposed to mean and I'm kinda done with people over this stuff so don't ask. 

"They" appears to be Dr. Fauci himself in my circles.  He is apparently an evil genius on a level with Dr. Evil intent on destroying every good thing in America.

[KSera]

39 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

but what he said sounds possibly misguided, not anti-vax. 

I would otherwise agree, except this has been a super popular line with anti-vaxers  ever since the vaccines came out. Anyone who is using this line is certainly listening or reading some shady sources.  Although, I guess listening to shady sources does lead to being misguided, so that’s accurate in that sense. 

17 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

It could be because in laymen's terms and in most of the general population's minds a traditional vaccine is designed to keep you from getting a certain disease. We get polio shots so we don't get polio, we get measles shots so we don't get measles, etc.

Eta: sorry wasn't done and pressed post

 

I've heard this before about flu shots too, that they might or might not keep you from getting the flu so they're not a "true" vaccine. I don't think it's a particularly anti vax sentiment. It just expresses the fact that the covid vax mitigates symptoms and spread, but doesn't actually keep you from getting a disease the way a polio or a measles shot does.

It’s definitely an anti-vax sentiment. The Anti-Covid vax crowd was saying this even in the beginning when it prevented 95% of illnesses. That’s actually very high effectiveness for a vaccine. People can get breakthrough polio and measles infections as well. Mumps and pertussis vaccine effectiveness is lower than for polio and measles. But with enough of the population vaccinated, the viruses don’t circulate (and don’t mutate away from the vaccine, because they’re not circulating enough to do so, unlike Covid). 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Probably the same people who thought Harry Potter books would lead to witchcraft. 

Well everyone knows that using Latin makes them real spells!  🙄

[Pam in CT]

re vaccine "designed" to prevent contraction of disease vs to reduce probability of getting serious case of disease

37 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

It could be because in laymen's terms and in most of the general population's minds a traditional vaccine is designed to keep you from getting a certain disease. We get polio shots so we don't get polio, we get measles shots so we don't get measles, etc....

I've heard this before about flu shots too, that they might or might not keep you from getting the flu so they're not a "true" vaccine. I don't think it's a particularly anti vax sentiment. It just expresses the fact that the covid vax mitigates symptoms and spread, but doesn't actually keep you from getting a disease the way a polio or a measles shot does.

The measles vaccines doesn't afford 100% protection against contracting measles if a vaxxed person encounters it.  By that reasoning no vaccine is "real." The reason that "we don't get" some diseases like measles is because ENOUGH people are vaccinated that the diseases are no longer circulating, so the probability of anybody -- vaccinated or not -- of encountering it is very small.  (In addition, the vaxxed person will likely get a milder case because their body is better equipped to resist in the small probability they get it.)

It's not that the *vaccine design* is different. It's that some diseases still circulate briskly and mutate into new forms and we haven't caught up with the whack-a-mole, whereas other *diseases* don't mutate as furiously fast and/or are not circulating in enough numbers to find many unvaccinated/vulnerable hosts.

[wathe]

Haha, I just saw my typo above "anti-vexers".  Quite the opposite, quite vexing in fact.

[Tanaqui]

It is true that a nonzero number of dictionaries have updated their definition for "vaccine" ahead of schedule to include this type of vaccine which, again, is not a "traditional" vaccine in that it does not include the virus or part of it. But it's not an evil scheme! Lexicocographers are not organized enough to do evil schemes.

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

I would otherwise agree, except this has been a super popular line with anti-vaxers  ever since the vaccines came out. Anyone who is using this line is certainly listening or reading some shady sources.  Although, I guess listening to shady sources does lead to being misguided, so that’s accurate in that sense. 

It’s definitely an anti-vax sentiment. The Anti-Covid vax crowd was saying this even in the beginning when it prevented 95% of illnesses. That’s actually very high effectiveness for a vaccine. People can get breakthrough polio and measles infections as well. Mumps and pertussis vaccine effectiveness is lower than for polio and measles. But with enough of the population vaccinated, the viruses don’t circulate (and don’t mutate away from the vaccine, because they’re not circulating enough to do so, unlike Covid). 

Right, but a chunk of the crowd that sounds anti vax is actually just sucked into the fear mongering media and is truly lacking information. By asking questions with the Socratic method, it’s not shutting them down and it provides an opportunity to educate. Half of my extended family stays glued to the Fox News channel, but they aren’t inherently evil people. They’ve gotten sucked into a dangerous dynamic from being fed fear and twisted information. A bit of correct info can chip away at that if they don’t feel attacked. I find in my circles that a lot of the people who say stupid stuff are in fact people who lack education—as in they haven’t studied college biology or rhetoric or history. It’s why they are so easy to manipulate through propaganda. They also tend to be people who are anxious by nature. 
 

This dynamic certainly doesn’t represent all anti-vax people, but I think we need to be careful about painting with a broad brush especially if these are people living in an area historically distrustful of government or an area which has a lot of anti-vax sentiment. I look at my family living elsewhere and largely they have all picked up the culture of where they live, with a few exceptions. If you live in an area where no one masks and no one you know has gotten seriously ill, you look at the world differently, iykwim.

[KSera]

30 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Right, but a chunk of the crowd that sounds anti vax is actually just sucked into the fear mongering media and is truly lacking information. By asking questions with the Socratic method, it’s not shutting them down and it provides an opportunity to educate. Half of my extended family stays glued to the Fox News channel, but they aren’t inherently evil people. They’ve gotten sucked into a dangerous dynamic from being fed fear and twisted information. A bit of correct info can chip away at that if they don’t feel attacked. I find in my circles that a lot of the people who say stupid stuff are in fact people who lack education—as in they haven’t studied college biology or rhetoric or history. It’s why they are so easy to manipulate through propaganda. They also tend to be people who are anxious by nature. 
 

This dynamic certainly doesn’t represent all anti-vax people, but I think we need to be careful about painting with a broad brush especially if these are people living in an area historically distrustful of government or an area which has a lot of anti-vax sentiment. I look at my family living elsewhere and largely they have all picked up the culture of where they live, with a few exceptions. If you live in an area where no one masks and no one you know has gotten seriously ill, you look at the world differently, iykwim.

I don’t think we disagree on this. I wasn’t using anti vax as = inherently evil people. I have heavy Fox News watchers in my family as well, and certainly don’t think that about them (fortunately the ones in my family are vaccinated). I just meant that the line about the Covid vaccine not being a vaccine came from the anti vax crowd. That’s where it originated and where it mostly gets propogated. Certainly some non anti vax people may hear it and believe it and then repeat it. 

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I've heard this before about flu shots too, that they might or might not keep you from getting the flu so they're not a "true" vaccine. I don't think it's a particularly anti vax sentiment. It just expresses the fact that the covid vax mitigates symptoms and spread, but doesn't actually keep you from getting a disease the way a polio or a measles shot does.

Neither the measles nor the polio vaccine 100% prevent you getting the disease if you encounter it (although the likelihood is much, much, lower).  There are always people with compromised immune systems or for whatever reason don't mount a robust immune response to that particular vaccine.  It's just that since over 95% of us are vaccinated against those diseases, we don't encounter them.  That's actual herd immunity, and we're not even close with Covid vaccines.  Maybe once Omicron blasts through and infects pretty much everyone that isn't vaxxed already...

But being 100% effective against getting the disease is not and never has been a feature of any vaccine - ever.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Matryoshka

[Melissa in Australia]

I thought smallpox vaccine was 

[Momto6inIN]

Whether that's the actual scientific reality or not, the vast majority of people, most of them not complete idiots and not evil people, believe that traditional vaccines are designed to keep people from ever getting the disease. That was my only point.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

Whether that's the actual scientific reality or not, the vast majority of people, most of them not complete idiots and not evil people, believe that traditional vaccines are designed to keep people from ever getting the disease. That was my only point.

I agree that this misunderstanding is the typical thought process, most often by people who were themselves vaccinated against all of those things by their mothers and fathers, who were 100% in favor of *anything* that would help stop children from being killed, crippled, infertile, and brain injured by the diseases. 
 

Tangent: as a thought experiment, I sometimes wonder what the public narrative would be if COVID mostly killed and maimed babies and children. 

[wathe]

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

 

Tangent: as a thought experiment, I sometimes wonder what the public narrative would be if COVID mostly killed and maimed babies and children. 

Completely different.  I think that's a certainty.

[Tanaqui]

51 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I thought smallpox vaccine was 

Nothing in life is 100%. Including the smallpox vaccine.

But that's what herd immunity does. If 99% of the population is vaccinated against smallpox (or measles, or polio, or idk rabies), it doesn't matter that the vaccine can't possibly offer total 100% immunity to everybody, because there's still no place for it to hide.

[AbcdeDooDah]

There is a difference to me between vaccines that require a series and shots that are yearly and hope to catch the anticipated strains, like a flu shot. 

[Katy]

1 minute ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

There is a difference to me between vaccines that require a series and shots that are yearly and hope to catch the anticipated strains, like a flu shot. 

But the flu vaccine is still a vaccine, even if you need frequent boosters.

[goldberry]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Right, but a chunk of the crowd that sounds anti vax is actually just sucked into the fear mongering media and is truly lacking information. By asking questions with the Socratic method, it’s not shutting them down and it provides an opportunity to educate. Half of my extended family stays glued to the Fox News channel, but they aren’t inherently evil people. They’ve gotten sucked into a dangerous dynamic from being fed fear and twisted information. A bit of correct info can chip away at that if they don’t feel attacked. I find in my circles that a lot of the people who say stupid stuff are in fact people who lack education—as in they haven’t studied college biology or rhetoric or history. It’s why they are so easy to manipulate through propaganda. They also tend to be people who are anxious by nature. 
 

This dynamic certainly doesn’t represent all anti-vax people, but I think we need to be careful about painting with a broad brush especially if these are people living in an area historically distrustful of government or an area which has a lot of anti-vax sentiment. I look at my family living elsewhere and largely they have all picked up the culture of where they live, with a few exceptions. If you live in an area where no one masks and no one you know has gotten seriously ill, you look at the world differently, iykwim.

My MIL has gone off the deep end into conspiracy theories.  She is an amazing woman who I have loved for years.  She has always been into natural/alternative medicine, but in a healthy, supplemental way, not a crazy way.  I read an article that a lot of conspiracy and propaganda spreaders were targeting "natural medicine" followers, because those type of people often have a distrust of medical authorities or authorities in general.  I truly believe that was how she got hooked in.  Since she went down the rabbit hole, she is literally paranoid of everything.  Everything is a conspiracy and not to be trusted, and anyone who disagrees "just think's she's stupid".   I have NEVER thought this woman was stupid (although I now seriously question her judgment)..  She is very intelligent.  But now she has a view that everyone who disagrees with her thinks that.  It's sad the level of "you're being attacked!" that accompanies all of this.

[goldberry]

Regarding vaccines keeping you from EVER getting a disease, think about the more recent measles outbreaks.  They occurred in primarily unvaccinated groups, but some vaccinated people still got sick in those outbreaks.  That shows how much vaccines rely on a fully vaxxed population.

[goldberry]

44 minutes ago, Quill said:

I agree that this misunderstanding is the typical thought process, most often by people who were themselves vaccinated against all of those things by their mothers and fathers, who were 100% in favor of *anything* that would help stop children from being killed, crippled, infertile, and brain injured by the diseases. 

This is a good point. The general population has never been in the middle of this ugly middle phase of finding the right formulation, as well as fighting so much resistance.  The reality was not so simple as "A fully functional vaccine was introduced and no one ever got X again!"

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Tangent: as a thought experiment, I sometimes wonder what the public narrative would be if COVID mostly killed and maimed babies and children. 

Totally different, I think (although maybe not if it only affected “other people’s” children—those with preexisting conditions or from different backgrounds than the majority 😞). I was thinking about this the other day when looking at differences in vaccination rates in different demographics. I was noticing that the stark political difference in vaccination rates drops off sharply when you get to the over 65 age group, which means people are getting it when they think they are in the group at risk, but a sizable group doesn’t feel compelled to protect that group if they aren’t personally worried about themselves. I think they would if that group was children instead, but again, they would need to feel their children were at risk. 

[goldberry]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

Totally different, I think (although maybe not if it only affected “other people’s” children—those with preexisting conditions or from different backgrounds than the majority 😞). I was thinking about this the other day when looking at differences in vaccination rates in different demographics. I was noticing that the stark political difference in vaccination rates drops off sharply when you get to the over 65 age group, which means people are getting it when they think they are in the group at risk, but a sizable group doesn’t feel compelled to protect that group if they aren’t personally worried about themselves. I think they would if that group was children instead, but again, they would need to feel their children were at risk. 

I have seen such nasty comments on our local Facebook page in the vein of "Your health is not my responsibility! I don't need to wear a mask, why would I wear one to protect YOU?  If you have risk factors you should just stay home!"  There is definitely no vibe of "taking care of each other".  As a Christian who believes in "seek not your own advantage, but that of the other person" it's very discouraging and sad to see other Christians rage about "Not my problem!" 😥   

[KSera]

9 minutes ago, goldberry said:

I have seen such nasty comments on our local Facebook page in the vein of "Your health is not my responsibility! I don't need to wear a mask, why would I wear one to protect YOU?  If you have risk factors you should just stay home!"  There is definitely no vibe of "taking care of each other".  As a Christian who believes in "seek not your own advantage, but that of the other person" it's very discouraging and sad to see other Christians rage about "Not my problem!" 😥   

So much this 😢. 

[ScoutTN]

2 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

Whether that's the actual scientific reality or not, the vast majority of people, most of them not complete idiots and not evil people, believe that traditional vaccines are designed to keep people from ever getting the disease. That was my only point.

True.

Poor science education. 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, goldberry said:

Regarding vaccines keeping you from EVER getting a disease, think about the more recent measles outbreaks.  They occurred in primarily unvaccinated groups, but some vaccinated people still got sick in those outbreaks.  That shows how much vaccines rely on a fully vaxxed population.

This has been very evident in my area with an extremely high population of immigrants. Measles is here for sure. The school age kids are all vaxed, but not all the adults, esp adult men. Women who take their kids to the doc are more likely to get the shots.

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This is an attorney? Socratic method him…

I would respond with, “Well, what is your immune system?” And then, “What would ‘boosting’ look like? How do you boost T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes?” 

A vaccine by definition is an immunity booster in the sense that it trains the immune system. 
 

If you don’t want to go there, I totally understand, but what he said sounds possibly misguided, not anti-vax. 

I often forget to use the Socratic method; it would be best to discipline myself into doing so. 
 

In this case, it was via text, which possibly isn’t the best for using the Socratic method. 
 

He’s not really anti-vax, and he has had two, though he is currently not getting boosted. However, he is susceptible to RWNJ “news” and some of the things he says come straight from that playbook. It’s annoying. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

There is a difference to me between vaccines that require a series and shots that are yearly and hope to catch the anticipated strains, like a flu shot. 

What about tetanus, where you get bosters every so many years?

[AbcdeDooDah]

26 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

What about tetanus, where you get bosters every so many years?

I don't see that as the same as flu (and eventually covid) shots that are an educated guess about what’s actually going around. If adults aren’t getting titres and boosting every vaccine needed then they could be contributing to others getting sick. Many of us said from the beginning the covid vaccine will end up like an annual flu shot. Tetanus vaccine wears off what ? 10 years. Are people really going to get covid boosters 1-3 times a year? 

[Shoeless]

Has anyone tracked how often the different anti-vax messages get recycled? We've had several rounds of "Masks don't work", "But Ivermectin, tho?", and now we're back around to "It's not a real vaccine, anyway".