this is a dumb question, so talk to me like I am not really bright

[DawnM]

So, places are having a very hard time hiring, even after unemployment has ended for those in retail and restaurants, etc...

Now we have a massive exodus of teachers across the country.   And my school is having a huge time finding people.   And we need another counselor and I was just told today that the district is having an average of 2 counselors turning in resignations PER WEEK within the district, so the chance of me getting a co-worker is slim.

But my DH works in the corporate world and they too are having a mass exodus.   They are discussing large retention bonuses for those who stay.   

Where are all these people going?   Don't they need to make money and feed their families?  Don't they need retirement?   

[prairiewindmomma]

1. A number of boomers are retiring/have retired. There aren’t as many Millenials or Z’ers coming into the workplace to replace them.

2. Over 500,000 people have died of covid. Not all of them were in the workplace, but quite a number were.

3. Legal immigration has been choked off for a few years and that particularly impacts certain fields.

4. A number of moms can’t find childcare to return to working. Because jobs are open, people who can work are upgrading, leaving lesser desired positions open.

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

1. A number of boomers are retiring/have retired. There aren’t as many Millenials or Z’ers coming into the workplace to replace them.

2. Over 500,000 people have died of covid. Not all of them were in the workplace, but quite a number were.

3. Legal immigration has been choked off for a few years and that particularly impacts certain fields.

4. A number of moms can’t find childcare to return to working. Because jobs are open, people who can work are upgrading, leaving lesser desired positions open.

5) a fair number of people are rethinking their live choices as to work….not sure how that will shake out.

[DawnM]

Why is childcare a problem to find?

I wouldn't say my husband's job is "lesser desired" at all, but people are leaving.....

And you are right about the retirement.   I do know people taking early retirement right now.   I don't have stats on that, but I have heard of it going on.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that demographers always knew that the echo boom bust was coming, but the suddenness of the boomers leaving their jobs, driven by Covid, has made this bust a more sudden and serious one in terms of supply of workers.

[Terabith]

6 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Why is childcare a problem to find?

I wouldn't say my husband's job is "lesser desired" at all, but people are leaving.....

And you are right about the retirement.   I do know people taking early retirement right now.   I don't have stats on that, but I have heard of it going on.

 

A lot of child care providers and centers closed because of the pandemic.  And people whose kids are in elementary schools but whose kids are constantly being sent home because of quarantine or exposures don't have reliable child care, because their child care is the school, but the school situation isn't stable.  

[DawnM]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

5) a fair number of people are rethinking their live choices as to work….not sure how that will shake out.

So am I.....but it is too late for me.....save yourself!

[prairiewindmomma]

My husband works in tech. Tech jobs are desired. There’s always a fair bit of churn, but people are chasing higher pay, WFH, better work/life balance, and better bonuses. It’s not fair to call a tech job undesirable, but people are absolutely trading up more than usual.

[DawnM]

5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

My husband works in tech. Tech jobs are desired. There’s always a fair bit of churn, but people are chasing higher pay, WFH, better work/life balance, and better bonuses. It’s not fair to call a tech job undesirable, but people are absolutely trading up more than usual.

Yeah, my husband has things pretty good....he can work from home 100% of the time now, so that is good for us.

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, I think part of the drive in tech right now comes from how hard it is to get H1B visas through right now. Those were curtailed by the previous President and there is a huge backlog now.

Dh tried for 18 months to fill a very highly compensated position but couldn’t find someone qualified. He finally hired someone but gave all sorts of concessions to get it done. I think this is part of what’s driving so many companies to extend WFH.

[Arcadia]

10 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

My husband works in tech. Tech jobs are desired. There’s always a fair bit of churn, but people are chasing higher pay, WFH, better work/life balance, and better bonuses. It’s not fair to call a tech job undesirable, but people are absolutely trading up more than usual.

Once his stock options finish vesting this month, it would be like a big “pay cut” next year but just above qualifying for any college aid. So they are also looking to trade up. I think the 4 to 5 years vesting cycle for new employees do induce job hop every 4 years.

[Forget-Me-Not]

14 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

My husband works in tech. Tech jobs are desired. There’s always a fair bit of churn, but people are chasing higher pay, WFH, better work/life balance, and better bonuses. It’s not fair to call a tech job undesirable, but people are absolutely trading up more than usual.

My brother works in tech. He just left a company that kept promising a possible promotion for at least 2-3 yrs before he was headhunted for another job and offered a 50% salary increase and 100% WFH. He said it’s really common in his industry for people to “trade up” every few years. Employers need to wrap their heads around the fact that they can’t skate by on empty promises and count on loyalty to the company anymore. 

[gardenmom5]

39 minutes ago, DawnM said:

So, places are having a very hard time hiring, even after unemployment has ended for those in retail and restaurants, etc...

Now we have a massive exodus of teachers across the country.   And my school is having a huge time finding people.   And we need another counselor and I was just told today that the district is having an average of 2 counselors turning in resignations PER WEEK within the district, so the chance of me getting a co-worker is slim.

But my DH works in the corporate world and they too are having a mass exodus.   They are discussing large retention bonuses for those who stay.   

Where are all these people going?   Don't they need to make money and feed their families?  Don't they need retirement?   

My friend is in Portland OR schools.  83% of teachers in her building - are thinking of leaving.  They will probably move to other cities/states.

1dd was laid off at the start of covid when her previous company was forced to shut down.  (they are STILL shut down because of covid.) She was glad she was able to ride things out with unemployment.  She started her dream job in March/April.  Despite living a mile from the building she should be working in (and would have been before covid), she has always worked from home.    She's looking at - if she's going to always work from home, she can go buy her dream house (re: kitchen) and not worry about commute.

 I'm sure a lot of people it's more about changing states, rather than the job.

[HS Mom in NC]

I read a business article (don't remember where) that said 40% of people who left the workforce early into COVID retired because they were eligible to do so.  They didn't want to deal with all the "new" ways of doing things working from home and they were at higher risk due to age.

There was another article (again, I don't remember where) that said many people who had been very seriously considering starting their own businesses (contracting and other forms) did. As established businesses restructured, many furloughed employees and some of them started working as independent contractors too.

Lots of people who were able to work from home full time were able to consider working in different locations where the COL went down and others who wanted to looked for new employers who were fine with work from home even after pandemic restrictions eased. 

[PaxEtLux]

I don't think this is a dumb question, at all.  I don't know that anyone right now knows for sure, and I bet there's a bunch of reasons.

Many reasons mentioned above seem plausible.  A related reason is that gains in the US economy have been disproportionately in the stock market, as opposed to wages.  Thus, any one with a good retirement plan in the stock market can probably retire earlier than if more of the economic gains had gone into wages.

[HS Mom in NC]

34 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Why is childcare a problem to find?

Because it pays crap.  Why does it pay crap?  Because very few people can afford to pay a full time employee a decent wage, which is what someone who cares for children full time for their employed parents does. And most people can't afford to pay childcare workers any benefits.  The cost of healthcare is skyrocketing regardless of a person's income level-it just hits low income workers harder. So parents think they're being reasonable by using a daycare center that hires part time workers because somehow in the US we expect people who work full time at low wages to never need healthcare. Then the parents complain that they can't find people who are content to have less than a living wage, no healthcare, no retirement, etc.

I worked in daycare as a late teen.  Honestly, I don't feel sorry for parents.  I just don't.  Those parents wouldn't tolerate being paid the way the parents treat daycare workers. So parents can stop whining, they can push government funded healthcare for everyone, or they can stay home and care for their kids themselves.

[Katy]

I read something recently (maybe on Wired) that said Slack had a study on this in the tech field. They blamed authoritarian leadership instead of asking employees what they wanted and being honest about plans, including “this will likely change.”

I don’t remember the exact numbers but something along the lines of 80% of people wanted to remain in work from home most of the time, but 80% of management wanted them back in the office.  Jobs required people to come back in, many said no because they could easily find another with better pay that allowed them to stay at home.  Others just retired.  Management was left scratching their heads, which they would not be doing if they bothered to talk to their employees before making policy changes. Companies that are flexible, honest, and doing massive across the board raises are not having this problem. 

[Arcadia]

16 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Fwiw, I think part of the drive in tech right now comes from how hard it is to get H1B visas through right now.

…

I think this is part of what’s driving so many companies to extend WFH.

My husband’s new colleague had a H1B with one of the big tech companies last year but they rather not relocate him during this pandemic so he switch companies and is now here working at the office. 

[Frances]

I don’t know if this is common, but the two working age adults I know who are not currently working or looking for work are dealing with some pretty significant mental health issues. One lost their long time job at the beginning of the pandemic and had a temporary, but different job with the same university. That ended over six months ago and they are not looking. The other quit their job due to burnout and stress, likely due to a mismatch between personality and the job, exacerbated by working from home. 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

2. Over 500,000 people have died of covid. Not all of them were in the workplace, but quite a number were.

The covid death total in the US is over 750k now.  

[Frances]

13 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Because it pays crap.  Why does it pay crap?  Because very few people can afford to pay a full time employee a decent wage, which is what someone who cares for children full time for their employed parents does. And most people can't afford to pay childcare workers any benefits.  The cost of healthcare is skyrocketing regardless of a person's income level-it just hits low income workers harder. So parents think they're being reasonable by using a daycare center that hires part time workers because somehow in the US we expect people who work full time at low wages to never need healthcare. Then the parents complain that they can't find people who are content to have less than a living wage, no healthcare, no retirement, etc.

I worked in daycare as a late teen.  Honestly, I don't feel sorry for parents.  I just don't.  Those parents wouldn't tolerate being paid the way the parents treat daycare workers. So parents can stop whining, they can push government funded healthcare for everyone, or they can stay home and care for their kids themselves.

I have to say that I’ve never understood parents complaining about the high cost of daycare. It doesn’t seem like many things are more important than quality care for your child if you can’t provide it yourself. I understand that it might be very difficult to pay the high costs and I think that is why there is an effort for more government subsidized care.

[Momto6inIN]

Childcare is hard to find because it pays crap. And it pays crap because we as a society don't value it. Society has deemed that the caring and nurturing of children is insignificant and unworthy of women's time.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Why is childcare a problem to find?

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-11-18/biden-s-build-back-better-wants-to-save-america-s-child-care-business?srnd=businessweek-v2
 

[prairiewindmomma]

Part of the analysis in paying for childcare is that many families don’t earn enough collectively to pay a full time living wage to another. This is driving a lot of couples here to choose to be childless. That’s not necessarily great for the future economy either.

—team universal healthcare and options for universal childcare here….

[HS Mom in NC]

19 minutes ago, Katy said:

I read something recently (maybe on Wired) that said Slack had a study on this in the tech field. They blamed authoritarian leadership instead of asking employees what they wanted and being honest about plans, including “this will likely change.”

I don’t remember the exact numbers but something along the lines of 80% of people wanted to remain in work from home most of the time, but 80% of management wanted them back in the office.  Jobs required people to come back in, many said no because they could easily find another with better pay that allowed them to stay at home.  Others just retired.  Management was left scratching their heads, which they would not be doing if they bothered to talk to their employees before making policy changes. Companies that are flexible, honest, and doing massive across the board raises are not having this problem. 

And managers tend to be extroverts.  (Introverts don't want to deal with people all the time, so they don't tend to want to be managers.) And extroverts often struggle with imagining working independently at home without having other people around to motivate them and energize them.  Also, when managers figure out that plenty of employees CAN work at home without being directly managed, then it's obvious many management positions are unnecessary.  That's a bitter pill to swallow.

[Rosie_0801]

Childcare centres are not well set up for kids with "special needs" like room to fidget. I never put mine in childcare, but I wouldn't have trusted one of them to stay there if I had. Not that they'd have taken him because he really did have special needs, like the need to refuse toilet training and nobody wants to deal with that. There isn't the space for the non-conforming child, even if the staff wanted them.

[Tap]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Why is childcare a problem to find?

I wouldn't say my husband's job is "lesser desired" at all, but people are leaving.....

And you are right about the retirement.   I do know people taking early retirement right now.   I don't have stats on that, but I have heard of it going on.

 

One problem is the constant exposures to COVID. If a worker has cold/allergy symptoms....do they stay home and tell the parents that they can't bring thier kids for 10 days? What do you do if a child exposes the daycare to C19? What if a family calls and says they had an exposure...won't be there for 10 days....oh, but will you hold thier spot (without wanting to pay of course)? How do you keep a mask on a 3yo for 10 hours? How do you keep kids from hugging each other and sharing germs?  I can go on and on, with the complications. If a center focuses on the families...the staff are hurt. If they focus on the staff...the families are hurt. 

Many families I know are now keeping kids at home with the parents who work from home. Especially kids that are a bit older like the 6-11yos, who can entertain themselves. Or they are co-op daycaring with a select set of families to reduce exposures. 

My work opened up a tele-work situation and we have already lost 3/11 employees to that service. ETA: Our company has a sister company. The telework is at the sister company. So they quit our employer and went to the sister company. All 3 have got promotions within the first 3 months and now make more money plus they no longer pay car expenses for commuting, and  by not commuting, have gained many hours a week of thier life back. Now, (due to that exodus) we have 8 on-site employees. Of those 8, 4 are applying to follow their lead and go to telework. Of the 4 who are wanting to leave, 3 are doing it primarily due to daycare struggles and kids getting quarantined from school over, and over. More money, promotion opportunities and more time! Hard to compete with that! One of my coworkers plans to step down at work, so she will have less stress. By keeping her kids at home (no daycare) she will make more money that she currently does.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Tap

[DawnM]

51 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Because it pays crap.  Why does it pay crap?  Because very few people can afford to pay a full time employee a decent wage, which is what someone who cares for children full time for their employed parents does. And most people can't afford to pay childcare workers any benefits.  The cost of healthcare is skyrocketing regardless of a person's income level-it just hits low income workers harder. So parents think they're being reasonable by using a daycare center that hires part time workers because somehow in the US we expect people who work full time at low wages to never need healthcare. Then the parents complain that they can't find people who are content to have less than a living wage, no healthcare, no retirement, etc.

I worked in daycare as a late teen.  Honestly, I don't feel sorry for parents.  I just don't.  Those parents wouldn't tolerate being paid the way the parents treat daycare workers. So parents can stop whining, they can push government funded healthcare for everyone, or they can stay home and care for their kids themselves.

Yes, but I mean related to this particular situation.   It has always paid crap.   People have always struggled to pay.   But it hasn't been this hard to find childcare overall in the past, what has changed?   That is my question.

Of course there are those centers that have traditionally had long wait list and sign ups in January and the like, but you could usually find somewhere.

[footballmom]

Companies will have trouble hiring by not being open minded to hiring for potential / investing in people with training.

I recently changed jobs after being with a company for several years.  I was the top performer (including performance review ratings) but there was literally no opportunity to grow / get promoted.  My team was being told we were pushing the top of the market for comp (we weren’t) and the company was starting to demand people return to the office.  There was fairly new top leadership and they weren’t very communicative like the precious leader and seemed to hide more than lead.  I worked with hiring teams in that job and the managers expected someone to be 110% qualified and willing to work on whatever terms the manager wanted - limited career growth, work in the office, arbitrary compensation.  
 

I was recruited by a great company that hired me for a role I was probably 70% qualified for but they saw how my skills could apply to the other 30%.  Those types of hiring practices will help companies fill jobs and insulate their teams from burnout because people aren’t doing the work of 2-4 people while they are understaffed. 

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Tap said:

One problem is the constant exposures to COVID. If a worker has cold/allergy symptoms....do they stay home and tell the parents that they can't bring thier kids for 10 days? What do you do if a child exposes the daycare to C19? What if a family calls and says they had an exposure...won't be there for 10 days....oh, but will you hold thier spot (without wanting to pay of course)? How do you keep a mask on a 3yo for 10 hours? How do you keep kids from hugging each other and sharing germs?  I can go on and on, with the complications. If a center focuses on the families...the staff are hurt. If they focus on the staff...the families are hurt. 

Many families I know are now keeping kids at home with the parents who work from home. Especially kids that are a bit older like the 6-11yos, who can entertain themselves. Or they are co-op daycaring with a select set of families to reduce exposures. 

My work opened up a tele-work situation and we have already lost 3/11 employees to that service. All 3 have got promotions within the first 3 months and now make more money plus they no longer pay car expenses for commuting, and  by not commuting, have gained many hours a week of thier life back. Now, (due to that exodus) we have 8 on-site employees. Of those 8, 4 are applying to follow their lead and go to telework. Of the 4 who are wanting to leave, 3 are doing it primarily due to daycare struggles and kids getting quarantined from school over, and over. More money, promotion opportunities and more time! Hard to compete with that!

Wait, are they leaving the job or just going to a work from home option with the company?   because that to me isn't the same as resigning from your position.

[Tap]

Just now, DawnM said:

Wait, are they leaving the job or just going to a work from home option with the company?   because that to me isn't the same as resigning from your position.

Both/neither >LOL

Our employer has what I can only describe as a sister company.. They are leaving one company and going to a completely different company and task. So, they are letting go of thier licenses, stopping thier current career path and quitting their jobs (or retiring for a few older ones). In return, they are getting a new job at the other part of the company to do a completely different job. The new job doesn't require the old credentials, but thier previous experience is what is making them so valuable and so promotable. LOL 

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

...2. Over 500,000 people have died of covid. Not all of them were in the workplace, but quite a number were...

52 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

The covid death total in the US is over 750k now.  

In NO way meaning to diminish the sadness and horror of so much loss and pain and suffering from the covid deaths, but statistically, the impact of covid deaths on the work place is perhaps not as great as it might seem from looking at the sheer number of covid cases vs. deaths:

According to these figures, just under 206 million people of the almost 334 million people in the U.S. are of working age (defined as 15-64 years old). According to these figures, just about 80% of covid deaths in the U.S. were over age 65.

That means of the 750,000+ covid deaths, 150,000 were of working age, which is less than 1% of the working population.

I definitely agree that covid is much more responsible for worker decline for other-than-death reasons, which people have listed in this thread.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Lori D.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

My friend is in Portland OR schools.  83% of teachers in her building - are thinking of leaving.  They will probably move to other cities/states.

1dd was laid off at the start of covid when her previous company was forced to shut down.  (they are STILL shut down because of covid.) She was glad she was able to ride things out with unemployment.  She started her dream job in March/April.  Despite living a mile from the building she should be working in (and would have been before covid), she has always worked from home.    She's looking at - if she's going to always work from home, she can go buy her dream house (re: kitchen) and not worry about commute.

 I'm sure a lot of people it's more about changing states, rather than the job.

I don't think they are simply moving around.   Many are leaving the profession all together, and the shortage is all over the place, teachers are quitting in mass numbers even after the school year has started.   My district has lost about 700 so far, all quitting after the school year began this past August.   

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, Tap said:

Both/neither >LOL

Our employer has what I can only describe as a sister company.. They are leaving one company and going to a completely different company and task. So, they are letting go of thier licenses, stopping thier current career path and quitting their jobs (or retiring for a few older ones). In return, they are getting a new job at the other part of the company to do a completely different job. The new job doesn't require the old credentials, but thier previous experience is what is making them so valuable and so promotable. LOL 

thanks for clarifying.

[Bootsie]

Labor force participation is at the lowest level it has been since the mid 1970s.  The labor force participation rate of those over 55 years of age has dropped significantly since January 2020.  

[mumof6]

Between 10 and 30% of Covid cases are long Covid. I was off work for over 4 months when I had Covid and then had to work greatly reduced hours. I’ve gradually built up the number of hours I work, but it’s still not to the amount I was working a year ago. Many people aren’t able to work at all, some employers can’t/won’t accommodate their reduced capacity to stand/concentrate. Some people won’t wear the mask required for the job. 

[easypeasy]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

So, places are having a very hard time hiring, even after unemployment has ended for those in retail and restaurants, etc...

Now we have a massive exodus of teachers across the country.   And my school is having a huge time finding people.   And we need another counselor and I was just told today that the district is having an average of 2 counselors turning in resignations PER WEEK within the district, so the chance of me getting a co-worker is slim.

But my DH works in the corporate world and they too are having a mass exodus.   They are discussing large retention bonuses for those who stay.   

Where are all these people going?   Don't they need to make money and feed their families?  Don't they need retirement?   

I personally know three teachers who have turned in their notice and are only staying til the holiday break. I know two more who are considering. The only teachers I know who are *staying* are those who are close to retirement.

It's insane right now in schools - what these people are expected to do in a day. The PARENTS, alone!! Oh my GOSH.

For instance - one of my friends had a kid with lice in her classroom. They sent him home, right? He came back two days later and the next day, the assistant noticed a live nit on the kid's head. They sent him to the principal who sent him right back to class and said they needed to "capture" the live bug and send it to the school nurse (who didn't work that day because she's on an alternating schedule with another school because of the shortage).

They wait til the nurse is back at work a day or two later, capture a bug on a piece of tape and take it to the school nurse, who confirms it is what it is and they send him home. Again.

He comes back the next day with a doctor's note that says his head was "clear."

His head was not, in fact, clear. Assistant sees more nits - teacher talks to principal. Principal says they can't "target" this kid by checking his head every day and she would not "hear" any further discussion about this kid's head.

Kid attends school for the week.

Other kids start getting lice and have to stay home from school. One poor kid, on the spectrum, got his head shaved because of the lice and is STILL crying about his hair everytime he sees his reflection.

Original kid? Still attending class. Still has nits.

Teachers are wearing their hair pulled up.

And that's just one story. 😞

The teachers are having to empty trash cans, they are having to assist with food prep (because there are so few cafeteria workers left). Kids are late because there are too few bus drivers...

What a mess. I'd quit too.

 

 

My dh is also in corporate world and has seen a similar exodus in some other companies he works with, but for less apparent reasons than teachers.

 

Bizarro-World right now.

Edited December 4, 2021 by easypeasy

[Frances]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Yes, but I mean related to this particular situation.   It has always paid crap.   People have always struggled to pay.   But it hasn't been this hard to find childcare overall in the past, what has changed?   That is my question.

Of course there are those centers that have traditionally had long wait list and sign ups in January and the like, but you could usually find somewhere.

A significant number of centers closed during the pandemic and many of the owners and workers moved on to different careers. Just like the hospitality industry, unless things change drastically such as daycare teachers getting similar pay and benefits to teachers, most will probably stay away.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I don't think they are simply moving around.   Many are leaving the profession all together, and the shortage is all over the place, teachers are quitting in mass numbers even after the school year has started.   My district has lost about 700 so far, all quitting after the school year began this past August.   

This. And 83% thinking of leaving is very different than 83% actually leaving (it sounds like a stat from a survey).

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

Labor force participation is at the lowest level it has been since the mid 1970s.  The labor force participation rate of those over 55 years of age has dropped significantly since January 2020.  

At least in my state, participation in the workforce by working age men was at record lows before the pandemic. And it’s my understanding that work wise, women were disproportionally affected by the pandemic. So combining those two would result in record low labor participation.

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

I don’t remember the exact numbers but something along the lines of 80% of people wanted to remain in work from home most of the time, but 80% of management wanted them back in the office.  Jobs required people to come back in, many said no because they could easily find another with better pay that allowed them to stay at home.  Others just retired.  Management was left scratching their heads, which they would not be doing if they bothered to talk to their employees before making policy changes. Companies that are flexible, honest, and doing massive across the board raises are not having this problem. 

2 of my dds are recent college graduates. One has been working less than a year and was just given a 15% raise on top of an already generous salary, and they straight out said it was because they wanted to retain good employees. And yes, she works mostly from home.

Other dd's first job wanted her to come in to the office every day.  She quickly found another job for more money that lets her work from home most of the time.

Yeah, the companies need to wake up.

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

Yes, but I mean related to this particular situation.   It has always paid crap.   People have always struggled to pay.   But it hasn't been this hard to find childcare overall in the past, what has changed?   That is my question.

COVID was really hard on the childcare industry. There were a lot of rules which reduced the number of kids they could accomodate, so many shut down and some did not open (either found jobs elsewhere or retired). Some parents found a way to make childcare work during the pandemic without childcare and are hesitant to send their kids to daycare, because COVID is still a threat, they found a way and it has saved them money, and daycare is spotty with the new COVID rules.

I know parents who send their kids to childcare and they get very little notice when their child cannot go (pretty much the night before or when you show up for drop off). Essentially when childcare finds out exposure happened (direct or indirect) the first course of action is to keep kids home and wait for tests and quarentine period. That is really hard on a parent with a fulltime job. That's not considering pay and tuition issues surrounding that. Most of my friends have to continue to pay tuition during those unexpected shutdowns; they do without complaint but there is still unhappiness over having to pay for services not rendered. (This is totally realizing they are paying so teachers can continue to be paid so they do pay without complaint.)  

[Frances]

This article puts what’s happening in a historical perspective.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/great-resignation-accelerating/620382/

[Matryoshka]

33 minutes ago, easypeasy said:

I personally know three teachers who have turned in their notice and are only staying til the holiday break. I know two more who are considering. The only teachers I know who are *staying* are those who are close to retirement.

It's insane right now in schools - what these people are expected to do in a day. The PARENTS, alone!! Oh my GOSH.

For instance - one of my friends had a kid with lice in her classroom. They sent him home, right? He came back two days later and the next day, the assistant noticed a live nit on the kid's head. They sent him to the principal who sent him right back to class and said they needed to "capture" the live bug and send it to the school nurse (who didn't work that day because she's on an alternating schedule with another school because of the shortage).

They wait til the nurse is back at work a day or two later, capture a bug on a piece of tape and take it to the school nurse, who confirms it is what it is and they send him home. Again.

And that's just one story. 😞

 

Not to nitpick (ha! cracking myself up... 🤣) but the nits are the eggs, not the live bugs. A single bug is a louse.

[Terabith]

My plan had been to try to get a teaching job next year.  My oldest will be in college, and I thought covid would be under control.  I don't think I can because my youngest won't have transportation to school. 

The school system contracted out bussing to a private company, and they just.....don't.  We get calls at least once a week that the high school bus will not come to our neighborhood.  We get calls three times a week or more that it will be 30 minutes or more late.  The school buses never arrive at school less than 40 minutes after start time, and the kids who ride the bus home have to leave 20 minutes early.  

She won't have a driver's license, although she might be able to get one at some point during next school year.  My husband can't take time off in the middle of his work day to get her to school at 8:30, and if I have a car at work, and if my oldest goes to college locally and drives a car to class, we don't have a third car for him to use for that purpose anyway.  

So, even though my youngest kid is 16, my participation in the job market is effectively curtailed.  

[*****]

3 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

Society has deemed that the caring and nurturing of children is insignificant and unworthy of women's time.

Society seems to have deemed the caring of the elderly as insignificant as well.  So many assisted living places have unskilled /undereducated workers that in my opinion can be detrimental to the caring and safety of our elderly.  II can't even imagine what is going on in assisted living places anymore, although I am sure there are still some that are better than others.  When my parents were alive, they lived in assisted living, so I have a good idea what goes on there. 

[*****]

So I am wondering how all these people who have left their workplaces, perhaps are not working elsewhere yet, or working on their own, how are they paying for their healthcare insurance?  Out-of-pocket insurance cost is ridiculous!

1 hour ago, easypeasy said:

It's insane right now in schools - what these people are expected to do in a day. The PARENTS, alone!! Oh my GOSH.

For instance - one of my friends had a kid with lice in her classroom.

I am certified, but haven't gone back full-time yet for these reasons alone.  I love teaching, but I don't want to deal with the hassle and stress in the schools currently, especially parents, I see what they post on district Facebook accounts (ex. when they don't agree with masking policies, or other issues) If that is what they are like, no wonder kids in schools are problematic. 

I know in the last 5 years or so, lice policies changed in our area.  As long as the nits were treated, Johnny could come back to school, quite often the same day. Ugh! (I believe it was because these kids were missing so much school, and often these were the kids who were already behind.)  But it angered me, because of the trickle effect...so many other kids then got lice.  It was just so unfair to put so many other families in the position of having to deal with lice. 

[easypeasy]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

Not to nitpick (ha! cracking myself up... 🤣) but the nits are the eggs, not the live bugs. A single bug is a louse.

ew. You're absolutely correct, but ew. 🥴😁 I'm all itchy now. Nits didn't make me feel itchy, but louse done did it for me. 🤪

[Tap]

48 minutes ago, ***** said:

So I am wondering how all these people who have left their workplaces, perhaps are not working elsewhere yet, or working on their own, how are they paying for their healthcare insurance?  Out-of-pocket insurance cost is ridiculous!

I am certified, but haven't gone back full-time yet for these reasons alone.  I love teaching, but I don't want to deal with the hassle and stress in the schools currently, especially parents, I see what they post on district Facebook accounts (ex. when they don't agree with masking policies, or other issues) If that is what they are like, no wonder kids in schools are problematic. 

I know in the last 5 years or so, lice policies changed in our area.  As long as the nits were treated, Johnny could come back to school, quite often the same day. Ugh! (I believe it was because these kids were missing so much school, and often these were the kids who were already behind.)  But it angered me, because of the trickle effect...so many other kids then got lice.  It was just so unfair to put so many other families in the position of having to deal with lice. 

Everyone's situation is different, but my son, who is over 26 (so no longer on my insurance) and a full time student, used to have to pay for his health insurance through the ACA website. Since COVID started, his copay has been zero or almost zero due to government assistance.  His pay has increased over time, so it isn't that he is working less, there is just more money available to help pay for health insurance right now. 

[Laura Corin]

My employer in Scotland has advertised for several low/mid-level administrators recently. Response has been poor - only about three responses per ad. The administrators are mostly women.

I think people with kids, even school aged, are finding work impossible - quarantine from school for so many symptoms while testing takes place just makes holding down a job really hard. Typically women earn less than men, so they are more likely to stay home in a two-income family if the logistics don't work. The applicants that I know of are from a small pool of empty nesters.

Eta you can't take State Pension - equivalent to Social Security - early, so there's an incentive to keep working to 67.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Laura Corin