Relatives dying from Covid is much harder now that the vaccine is available.

[Roadrunner]

33 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

What you can't get through logic or facts or voting you now want through coercion??? We don't do this for the flu, telling people we won't treat them if they don't take the flu vaccine. We don't do this with junk food or cigarettes, even though the consequences of those are killing more people than covid. 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

I realize badly worded ideas are bad. 🤣🤣🤣

So no, I didn’t mean that. I was just under the impression that we were covering 100% of Covid as opposed to what insurance regularly covers, so what I wanted to say maybe we should continue offering that 100% coverage to those who are vaccinated and still get sick. And I realize that my understanding that 100% was covered light not be exactly right. 

[Roadrunner]

Also has anybody seen reinfection rates by vaccine? I have seen Pfizer data from Israel,  it wondering how J&J and Moderna are holding up. 

[Longtime Lurker]

32 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I understand the sentiment here but this would send us all down a bad road. 

And most importantly, where does it end? Do we deny coverage for heart disease if someone is obese? Deny coverage for cancer if the patient smoked or did any of the other things that we know are related to cancer?

Yes. I think we start down a very dangerous slippery slope when we start denying coverage to people who make poor health decisions. And then do we deny coverage for someone who was in, say, a skiing accident? Don't they know skiing can be dangerous?? 

[KSera]

14 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

All good points.

I am improvising and trying to see what we can do to incentivize people. My understanding was insurance was picking up all the costs before of illness due to Covid. And again, I am not 100% sure here, but I remember thinking how great it was (my deductible for a family is $25k) I wouldn’t be in debt just in case. So have they reverted back to “normal” coverage? I don’t know what is happening honestly, but if we were giving something special to Covid patients, maybe those specials should be targeted at vaccinated? 

I do 100% agree with you though overall.

You’re correct that the public Health emergency declaration meant that a bunch of Covid related services were provided with no co-pay and were not subject to deductible. A bunch of that actually expires tomorrow, on July 19. While I don’t think that people who didn’t get vaccinated should not be covered by insurance, even though I am really upset that their decisions are harming and killing so many people and are not allowing this pandemic to end, I do think your idea makes sense, that the waiver could continue to apply to those who are vaccinated or with some other exemption, but not to those who could have been vaccinated but chose not to.

having looked up what date those waivers end actually has me wondering what’s happening with the mental health teletherapy benefits we’ve been using. According to what I was reading, those provisions end tomorrow as well. I’ve heard nothing about that or about needing to go back in person. That would really be problematic, as my dd’s therapist moved to the opposite end of the state!

[Roadrunner]

Yes, I meant those wavers. 
I really can’t write. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[TCB]

5 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

^^^This^^^ I don't get it. At all. My daughter in law is a nurse and works in a hospital. She works with several nurses who are anti-vax. It doesn't make sense that people in the health care field should ignore the science and fall into the anti-vax trap.

I think it is that they don’t bother to look at and know the science. That has certainly been my experience talking to the ones I know. It is so startlingly clear that vaccines work to prevent serious illness, that I think some of them are starting to get the truth. Around here strong political views seem to be a barrier to looking at facts with an open mind, for some people.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

What you can't get through logic or facts or voting you now want through coercion??? We don't do this for the flu, telling people we won't treat them if they don't take the flu vaccine. We don't do this with junk food or cigarettes, even though the consequences of those are killing more people than covid. 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

Nobody is calling for anyone to not be treated. Paying for the consequences of their choice is what is being proposed. None of your comparisons are really valid due to choosing not to have a covid vaccine having a much greater impact on others. And insurance companies, including both mine and my husband’s, already charge lower premiums for non-smokers.
 

My sister previously lived in a country with universal healthcare. No one was denied treatment, but sometimes the patient had to pay if for example the injuries were the result if their negligence. During the time she was there one of my coworkers sustained some injuries due to stupid behavior while drunk. She gave that as an example of when someone would be treated but then billed for treatment.

That’s what people are talking about here. Someone medically fine to receive the vaccine chooses not to and ends up hospitalized with covid. They are billed rather than insurance covering it since they had free access to a preventative and chose not to use it. 

[regentrude]

Nm

Edited July 19, 2021 by regentrude

[TCB]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

What you can't get through logic or facts or voting you now want through coercion??? We don't do this for the flu, telling people we won't treat them if they don't take the flu vaccine. We don't do this with junk food or cigarettes, even though the consequences of those are killing more people than covid. 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

From my experience there is not a lot of logicical thinking being undertaken by the anti vax, conspiracy crowd. I have looked at every single thing, the people I know in this group, have posted on social media and much of the time there is no evidence presented, and even when there is, a thorough research shows it to be incorrect. I had no idea so many people didn’t know how to think logically! It has been shocking!

[Frances]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

 

Sometimes the logic and politics here just blows my mind.

And more and more, the selfishness in this country, especially on the part of professing Christians, just blows my mind. And also the willingness to equate misinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theories with facts, and the call to treat them as just a difference of opinion.

[DoraBora]

I think, early on, that the big health insurance companies were waiving cost-sharing for Covid treatment (or what I would call co-pays).  This was interesting:

https://www.wbtv.com/2021/05/03/good-question-does-your-insurance-cover-hospital-bills-long-covid-hospitalization-stays/

Research by FAIR Health has found the average cost for a hospital stay for COVID ranges from $51,000 to $78,000.

As for who pays, it really depends.

In a study released in November, it found that 88 percent of people with insurance had policies that waived payments during the pandemic.

But, nothing lasts forever.

All of these hospital and treatment waivers were voluntary so insurance companies can lift those whenever they choose.

That’s what some of them are doing now.

For example, Anthem stopped its waivers in January. Aetna’s expired in February. United Health stopped at the end of March.

So it really comes down to who your provider is.

ADVER

Edited July 19, 2021 by DoraBora

[Longtime Lurker]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

While I don’t think that people who didn’t get vaccinated should not be covered by insurance, even though I am really upset that their decisions are harming and killing so many people and are not allowing this pandemic to end, I do think your idea makes sense, that the waiver could continue to apply to those who are vaccinated or with some other exemption, but not to those who could have been vaccinated but chose not to.

I agree. 

[DoraBora]

Please don't quote. 

A dad from our homeschool co-op is very ill right now.  He was sick at home and went via ambulance to the hospital.  This was in late June. 

His Covid journey has been eerily similar to so many others I've read about.  One day he seemed better.  The next day he was about to crash and they let his family in to say goodbye.  Today he rallied, but now his O2 levels are in the 80s again.  He's sedated and still on a ventilator.

His wife, who is truly a lovely woman, asks on FB for prayer.  She shares his ups and downs.  I feel for her -- it is just horrible and so sad.

I strongly suspect this man was not immunized.  It's just a guess.  If he had taken the vaccine, what are the odds that he would be this ill?  Wouldn't his wife be complaining that he had been vaccinated and shouldn't be so sick?  But instead of urging the many who are following their story and praying for her husband and family to be vaccinated, she is now saying his current condition isn't even Covid related.  His troubles are a result of the treatments.  He doesn't even have Covid anymore.

I don't really have a point here.  I just don't understand people anymore.  Of course, I would never argue with her.  It would be too unkind.  Besides, where would I even start? 

[Drama Llama]

On 7/17/2021 at 5:26 PM, happysmileylady said:

I tried.   I tried to let it go.

 

 

Tell me please.....what could have prevented my situation. 

 

Please...............tell me exactly what more I could have done. 

I am so so sorry.

I have all sorts of complicated feelings, that I keep trying to put into a post and failing because I can't be coherent.

But I can't not respond to this.  No one deserves what happened to you or your family.  No one deserves to die from this terrible virus.  This didn't happen because you did something wrong.  It happened because covid is a terrible thing.  

I am so sorry if people, or if I, have made you feel differently.

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

I do think your idea makes sense, that the waiver could continue to apply to those who are vaccinated or with some other exemption, but not to those who could have been vaccinated but chose not to.

Insurance companies are For-profit corporations and whether they continue to provide waivers to unvaccinated people for Covid hospitalizations might be something that has already been decided by these corporations. If the average cost of a hospitalization for covid is upwards of $30,000 I think that the writing is clear on the wall as to how insurance billing policies for Covid hospitalization will trend in the upcoming months.

[PeterPan]

7 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

^^^This^^^ I don't get it. At all. My daughter in law is a nurse and works in a hospital. She works with several nurses who are anti-vax. It doesn't make sense that people in the health care field should ignore the science and fall into the anti-vax trap.

I've met some health care workers who were anti on the mRNA covid vax. Do you think these people are anti *all* vax or only the mRNA? I'm just wondering (and anecdotes would suffice) whether a shot that is more like the flu shot (which the novamax appears to be) will be differently received. Had they previously taken the flu shot or had they usually refused that too?

[KSera]

1 hour ago, mathnerd said:

Insurance companies are For-profit corporations and whether they continue to provide waivers to unvaccinated people for Covid hospitalizations might be something that has already been decided by these corporations. If the average cost of a hospitalization for covid is upwards of $30,000 I think that the writing is clear on the wall as to how insurance billing policies for Covid hospitalization will trend in the upcoming months.

I think either way could be argued. Because people not getting vaccinated is going to cost insurance companies WAY more than if vaccinated people weren’t cost sharing. Since most hospitalizations are in the unvaccinated, and almost all ICU patients are unvaccinated, that’s what’s going to be so expensive, and if knowing they would no longer be off the hook for co-pays convinced more people to get vaccinated, I think that would save a lot more money than it would cost. 

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Also, most of us with an employer group health plan are in self funded plan swhich means the expenses are actually paid by our employer, not the insurance company. The insurance company provides the network and administers the benefits.

Am I right to assume that HIPPA means there’s no way an employer would know which employees were costing them more money? We’ve had an expensive year, and it’s one of those things that worries me 😳. 

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Am I right to assume that HIPPA means there’s no way an employer would know which employees were costing them more money? We’ve had an expensive year, and it’s one of those things that worries me 😳. 

I think it depends on the circumstances.

Certainly, my husband's employer was able to figure out that our kid was costing them a small fortune. But if your issues aren't as visible, you might be safe.  

[Drama Llama]

On 7/17/2021 at 6:16 PM, KSera said:

This is a really smart strategy. 

I'd worry that this incentivizes not testing and not staying home when you're sick. 

[Laura Corin]

12 hours ago, regentrude said:

I disagree. Social distancing and masking have been extremely effective. At my university we have been in person during fall and spring, and the Covid numbers were much smaller than in the community, despite the fact that college students live in dorms - because we had a mask and distancing requirement on campus! No cases have originated during classes (masked, 6 ft between seats); all of the few infections stemmed from social activities where masking/distancing was not enforced.

Yes. No cases derived from distanced and masked attendance at classes at the university where I work either.

[HeartString]

5 hours ago, KSera said:

Am I right to assume that HIPPA means there’s no way an employer would know which employees were costing them more money? We’ve had an expensive year, and it’s one of those things that worries me 😳. 

HR knows for the most part. Really expensive stuff usually needs FMLA leave and that requires documentation.  It’s hard to hide a 30 day ICU stay from COVID or time off for heart transplant.  Hippa doesn’t prevent anyone from knowing.  It prevents them from sharing what they know with outside entities.  
 

Edited July 19, 2021 by HeartString

[TravelingChris]

5 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Not all insurance companies are for profit. Most of the independent blues are not for profit, for example. 

 

That is truly a joke=  look up ALabama Blue Cross.   It hasn't changed since it was one of the highlights of President Obama's push for the ACA.

And Tricare isn't for profit- really- but is always under pressure to limit costs.

[Roadrunner]

UK new surge is horrifying, but death rates remain low. 
Israel still gives me hope. I know they are having a spike as well, but it’s tiny in comparison. 
 

[Not_a_Number]

@DoraBora -- oh, that must be so difficult and frustrating to watch 😕. I hope he recovers soon.  

[fairfarmhand]

On 7/17/2021 at 11:29 AM, regentrude said:

Unfortunately, experiencing severe illness and death of persons close to them will be the only thing that will get many people to take Covid seriously. Seeing it across the globe and country in the news didn't make it seem real. It has to be their immediate community and family.

In some sense, that's our only hope for this pandemic to end: it will have to get much worse first. Until the Covid deniers have a rude awakening. Sadly, by that time they will have caused the deaths of many folks who did everything imaginable to keep safe .

 Doubtful.

we Lost someone to covid and had to fight the “no large public funeral” battle for that person. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

 Doubtful.

we Lost someone to covid and had to fight the “no large public funeral” battle for that person. 

I remember that! It's all kind of incomprehensible to me 😕 . 

[Sneezyone]

15 hours ago, lewelma said:

Here, both the border workers and people in the Defence Force will be *fired* if they are not vaccinated. In these jobs, if workers are not vaccinated, they you don't have the skills to do the job because one of the skills is that you don't transmit covid from the border to the community. 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/441728/more-border-workers-could-lose-jobs-for-not-getting-vaccinated

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-defence-force-service-members-told-to-get-vaccinated-or-face-being-fired/D35WGCFPGWITEIFLLV6DYDDPZQ/

The US military is gearing up to require vaccines this fall too. I’ve heard from at least one senior (O6) officer spouse who declared (methinks prematurely) that her DH would retire if this happened. They have three kids under 10 in a HCOL area. The mandate is expected w/in the next 3 months. He’s not retiring before getting jabbed and maintaining the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to would be very difficult if he did. I didn’t say that, lol, but was muted for pointing out that the military doesn’t care about your fee fees (although I was more politic than that, lol). Facts are facts. DH is being told that mandatory masking requirements (unless you have proof of vax) are likely to come back too. Locally, the results of vaccination are clear and stark.

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Sneezyone

[kbutton]

9 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I've met some health care workers who were anti on the mRNA covid vax. Do you think these people are anti *all* vax or only the mRNA? I'm just wondering (and anecdotes would suffice) whether a shot that is more like the flu shot (which the novamax appears to be) will be differently received. Had they previously taken the flu shot or had they usually refused that too?

Some healthcare workers get in a snit about the flu shot too. For some reason, the flu shot is frequently controversial too. The anti-flu shot stuff is almost always from anti-vaxxers, but it's more filtered, like when people spout things that are from QAnon, but they don't know it. It's often from "health influencers" that people follow because they've researched something specific to them, like being gluten intolerant. (As an aside, shame on those in the medical community who are constantly deriding "unnecessary" lifestyle changes that people adopt because they genuinely feel better; those attitudes drive people to misleading sites a lot of the time. Is GF sometimes a fad? Yes. Do some people feel extraordinarily better GF anyway? Yes.)

That said, how you frame your concerns is part of the equation. If a nurse is badmouthing it (without evidence) or posting flippant derogatory memes that lean political, or going to the store "vaccinated" (meaning unmasked even when the mandate was in place), does it really matter what the reasoning is? It's propaganda to keep people on your non-evidence based side.

We have a lot of data on the vaccines at this point. 

[Tree Frog]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

DH is being told that mandatory masking requirements (unless you have proof of vax) are likely to come back too.

Dh works on a military installation. If they don't want to mask, they have to carry their Covid vaccine cards with them as proof of vaccination.

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

The US military is gearing up to require vaccines this fall too. I’ve heard from at least one senior (O6) officer spouse who declared (methinks prematurely) that her DH would retire if this happened. They have three kids under 10 in a HCOL area. The mandate is expected w/in the next 3 months. He’s not retiring before getting jabbed and maintaining the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to would be very difficult if he did. I didn’t say that, lol, but was muted for pointing out that the military doesn’t care about your fee fees (although I was more politic than that, lol). Facts are facts. DH is being told that mandatory masking requirements (unless you have proof of vax) are likely to come back too. Locally, the results of vaccination are clear and stark.

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
 

I have two Coast Guard families and I had the impression that vaccination was required once they had it available to administer-it just took until late Spring before they had enough vaccine to administer on base. I know that one reason why both stayed remote until this summer was because they were required to list exposure risks, and by doing piano remote and homeschooling, it lowered the risk enough to allow the kids to do something else that really needed to be in person (gymnastics, dance, soccer, etc). 

 

 

[Sneezyone]

42 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

Dh works on a military installation. If they don't want to mask, they have to carry their Covid vaccine cards with them as proof of vaccination.

It’s currently up to base commanders (whether to require proof) but that discretion is being quietly removed due to holdouts in low vax areas.

41 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I have two Coast Guard families and I had the impression that vaccination was required once they had it available to administer-it just took until late Spring before they had enough vaccine to administer on base. I know that one reason why both stayed remote until this summer was because they were required to list exposure risks, and by doing piano remote and homeschooling, it lowered the risk enough to allow the kids to do something else that really needed to be in person (gymnastics, dance, soccer, etc). 

 

The lowest vax rates are among Marines. They are comfy with much higher risks as a function of their jobs than other branches but they also tend to be even more…special in their thinking. That doesn’t mean the military will accept their discomfort as a reason to leave its assets unprotected tho. Like it or not, this is about dollars and cents. The costs of testing, quarantine, long-covid, and death are high and impact readiness. That’s not a popular opinion in the spouse community and I suspect it reflects national trends. 🤷🏽‍♀️It’s hard to hear but I remember the same thing happening over the mandatory Anthrax vax they got during the gulf war years.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Sneezyone

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

The US military is gearing up to require vaccines this fall too. I’ve heard from at least one senior (O6) officer spouse who declared (methinks prematurely) that her DH would retire if this happened. They have three kids under 10 in a HCOL area. The mandate is expected w/in the next 3 months. He’s not retiring before getting jabbed and maintaining the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to would be very difficult if he did. I didn’t say that, lol, but was muted for pointing out that the military doesn’t care about your fee fees (although I was more politic than that, lol). Facts are facts. DH is being told that mandatory masking requirements (unless you have proof of vax) are likely to come back too. Locally, the results of vaccination are clear and stark.

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
 

Yeah, you don't want to retire so fast.  Dh (also an 06) decided in fall of 13 that he was going to retire in late spring of 14) and that gave him enough time to transition well and end up getting a better lifestyle (and more income) than before.  But dh is STEM and what you did before can make all the difference in how much you make in civilian life.

I think that COVID vaccines will become mandatory once we get rid of emergency authorization (this is in the military but I also think it may become so not just for military but also military installations- like civilians and contractors who work in military facilities. )  

 

[TravelingChris]

I was asking dh when his giant complex will open up to work full time and he said it is closed until September at least.

[Dmmetler]

Just now, TravelingChris said:

I was asking dh when his giant complex will open up to work full time and he said it is closed until September at least.

DH's company is similar. Right now, the central office is mostly closed, with only a few people working in person, and most of the non-US offices are closed. DH is remote anyway, but we had kind of expected him to be able to go into the office next month since we'll be in the city to move L into a college dorm, and I want to stay close for a few days after classes start just to make sure everything is going OK. But it's looking like he may end up working remotely from a rental house instead. 

 

 

[TravelingChris]

1 minute ago, Dmmetler said:

DH's company is similar. Right now, the central office is mostly closed, with only a few people working in person, and most of the non-US offices are closed. DH is remote anyway, but we had kind of expected him to be able to go into the office next month since we'll be in the city to move L into a college dorm, and I want to stay close for a few days after classes start just to make sure everything is going OK. But it's looking like he may end up working remotely from a rental house instead. 

 

 

Well my dh probably shouldn't be working remotely because he can't do all that much remotely.  But he also told me that in reality, his going in a few times a week for a few hours seems to be about all he really needs.  He is just so happy that he isn't wasting time on endless meetings.  DH works at a military agency.

[dsmith]

On 7/17/2021 at 11:31 AM, Farrar said:

I'm very dubious that people who refused any of the options so far will take the Novamax. Like, maybe a tiny handful, but not a significant percentage.

I also find it hard. And I find it especially hard that so many people I know who are usually compassionate and kind are reaching a breaking point where they don't care and think the people who refuse to get vaccinated deserve what they get. There's a part of me that feels that way too, but the suffering is so big. I don't want to feel that way. They've been misled by conspiracy theories and hatred.

My sister wouldn't get the Pfizer of Moderna vax, because the technology is too new for her comfort. She was on her way to get vaccinated with her daughter when she got a call from someone who told her the vaccines would cause infertility. She has told me that she thinks she is going to die if she gets those vaccines, and that she is going to die from Covid because she's unvaccinated. She is waiting for Novamax because that vaccine technology is already in use. I don't know what I can say to change her mind, so I can only tell her to be safe and mask up. But she goes out to eat with other unvaccinated friends, goes to parties, etc. I'm full of worry for her, so I will be very happy if Novamax becomes available, because I don't see her changing her mind on the other vaccines.

[TravelingChris]

7 minutes ago, dsmith said:

My sister wouldn't get the Pfizer of Moderna vax, because the technology is too new for her comfort. She was on her way to get vaccinated with her daughter when she got a call from someone who told her the vaccines would cause infertility. She has told me that she thinks she is going to die if she gets those vaccines, and that she is going to die from Covid because she's unvaccinated. She is waiting for Novamax because that vaccine technology is already in use. I don't know what I can say to change her mind, so I can only tell her to be safe and mask up. But she goes out to eat with other unvaccinated friends, goes to parties, etc. I'm full of worry for her, so I will be very happy if Novamax becomes available, because I don't see her changing her mind on the other vaccines.

J and J is not new technology.  OH and something you may want to tell her is that people are surviving cancer now because of new technology-- JImmy Carter is still alive.  There is new technology all the time in medicine.

[Wheres Toto]

9 minutes ago, dsmith said:

My sister wouldn't get the Pfizer of Moderna vax, because the technology is too new for her comfort. She was on her way to get vaccinated with her daughter when she got a call from someone who told her the vaccines would cause infertility. She has told me that she thinks she is going to die if she gets those vaccines, and that she is going to die from Covid because she's unvaccinated. She is waiting for Novamax because that vaccine technology is already in use. I don't know what I can say to change her mind, so I can only tell her to be safe and mask up. But she goes out to eat with other unvaccinated friends, goes to parties, etc. I'm full of worry for her, so I will be very happy if Novamax becomes available, because I don't see her changing her mind on the other vaccines.

Your sister seems to have some extreme anxiety over the vaccines and covid.  Which makes it odd that she would then behave in a way known to increase risk.  

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Locally, the results of vaccination are clear and stark.

https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-data-insights/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
 

I really like this dashboard Virginia has. Clear and stark is right! I wish all states would have a page like this. I haven’t seen cases by vaccination status listed anywhere for my state, but I’ll have to do more digging. 

[PeterPan]

16 minutes ago, dsmith said:

She is waiting for Novamax

And people castigated me for saying this. I do think it will make a difference for whatever percentage of people were refusing mRNA vaccines who would be willing to take something akin to a flu vaccine. Even people who don't take a flu vaccine often have solvable reasons (minimal risk, don't want the aluminum/mercury/whatever). So I haven't checked on the novamax ingredients, but I think if it's skipping the preservatives and meeting what people perceive as a risk need, it will get accepted. 

Did you see Trump's former Surgeon General was on Newsmax? I don't think the Newsmax guy liked what he was saying, haha, because the doctor was taking him to task. He had an interesting point that the risk will be 3X higher with it being more transmissible and that people who got by before might not the next round.

So I do think you'll see seed shifts. He also took the FDA to task for not approving the mRNA vaxes fully. Imagine if the reason they're not approving them fully is the dangerous reactions. What if Novamax is able to be almost as good WITHOUT these dangerous reactions? At some point the people who waited might look back and be glad. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by PeterPan

[Not_a_Number]

By the way, it's Novavax, right? Not Novamax. 

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Well my dh probably shouldn't be working remotely because he can't do all that much remotely.  But he also told me that in reality, his going in a few times a week for a few hours seems to be about all he really needs.  He is just so happy that he isn't wasting time on endless meetings.  DH works at a military agency.

Unfortunately the endless meetings actually got worse because then the virtual folks were easier to include. I think DH is hoping that he can drop off the radar a bit if the office reopens and get more done!

[Frances]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

And people castigated me for saying this. I do think it will make a difference for whatever percentage of people were refusing mRNA vaccines who would be willing to take something akin to a flu vaccine. Even people who don't take a flu vaccine often have solvable reasons (minimal risk, don't want the aluminum/mercury/whatever). So I haven't checked on the novamax ingredients, but I think if it's skipping the preservatives and meeting what people perceive as a risk need, it will get accepted. 

Did you see Trump's former Surgeon General was on Newsmax? I don't think the Newsmax guy liked what he was saying, haha, because the doctor was taking him to task. He had an interesting point that the risk will be 3X higher with it being more transmissible and that people who got by before might not the next round.

So I do think you'll see seed shifts. He also took the FDA to task for not approving the mRNA vaxes fully. Imagine if the reason they're not approving them fully is the dangerous reactions. What if Novamax is able to be almost as good WITHOUT these dangerous reactions? At some point the people who waited might look back and be glad. 

No one castigated you. Some simply disagreed it would make much of a difference.

As for the possibility of some who waited looking back and being glad they waited, from a selfish personal perspective I suppose that could happen if they don’t get seriously ill or die first. But waiting while new variants emerge and spread is not good from a public health perspective.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Frances

[regentrude]

34 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

And people castigated me for saying this. I do think it will make a difference for whatever percentage of people were refusing mRNA vaccines who would be willing to take something akin to a flu vaccine. 

But isn't the J&J just that?

[Catwoman]

On 7/17/2021 at 5:26 PM, happysmileylady said:

I tried.   I tried to let it go.

 

 

Tell me please.....what could have prevented my situation. 

 

Please...............tell me exactly what more I could have done. 

There is nothing more that you or your dh could have done. You were being so careful! You and the kids were hardly going anywhere, and your dh couldn’t help it that he had to go to work in person. And your dh wore a mask like he was supposed to! There is literally nothing more that your family could have done.

I am so, so sorry for what happened. It was just the worst, most terrible luck ever. But never think for a moment that you could have prevented it. 

Sending you lots of hugs.

[dsmith]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

J and J is not new technology.  OH and something you may want to tell her is that people are surviving cancer now because of new technology-- JImmy Carter is still alive.  There is new technology all the time in medicine.

With J and J it's the stroke risk. I've tried, I really have...

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, dsmith said:

With J and J it's the stroke risk. I've tried, I really have...

What kills me about people talking about the small risks with vaccines is all the OTHER risks they are willing to put in their body - from fast food to booze to drugs. Not saying this applies to the person you are talking about, but I know personally people who think the vaccine is toxic and risky but have done cocaine, do other recreational drugs, etc. I'm like..uh....you know that crap you buy from the guy your friend told you about doesn't have "full FDA approval" either, Right?

 

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, dsmith said:

With J and J it's the stroke risk. I've tried, I really have...

Which is why I'm pretty sure Novavax will make no difference. People aren't vaccinating for social reasons, not rational ones. 

[dsmith]

1 hour ago, Wheres Toto said:

Your sister seems to have some extreme anxiety over the vaccines and covid.  Which makes it odd that she would then behave in a way known to increase risk.  

Yes. I really don't understand the conflicting behaviors.