Jump to content

Menu

Relatives dying from Covid is much harder now that the vaccine is available.


Shelydon
 Share

Recommended Posts

We cannot prevent tragedies on an individual scale ever. But we can absolutely prevent a larger number. When we reduce carcinogens or put in new traffic lights, we don't end cancer or pedestrian deaths - they'll keep going. But we also have to do that work to reduce deaths. And when a town lobbies against their most dangerous intersection getting a light and goes out and purposefully jaywalks it every day to make their point... then it's really hard not to be frustrated and blame them for escalating more deaths, even if some of them were always going to be unpreventable.

  • Like 14
  • Thanks 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, happysmileylady said:

When I have said this, it's been downplayed as fatalistic.  Like giving up.  Like that sort of talk is dangerous and like I want to kill grandma. 

Well, what can I say?? I'm not locking my kids in a closet. All of us had to make hard decisions in this pandemic. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It would be really great if that were true but quite honestly, I don't believe it.  ON this very board, there were approx elventy billion judgements about what people did or did not do pre vaccine.  Since dang near January of 2020, Everyone here has reflected on every decision pre vaccine.  It never has mattered what people did, it only mattered how "they could have done more."

I saw people interpret those threads like that, and I have NO IDEA why. They were never aimed at people who were doing their best. They were aimed at people who were partying or flouting restrictions or telling people that masks didn't work and COVID was a hoax. 

I have a local ex-friend who yelled at me about COVID being a hoax back in March 2020. Yeah, I have to admit, I kind of judge her! Because she was posting conspiracy theories. Because she refused to wear a mask when our common friend with an autoimmune condition saw her. Because she's been behaving like a total jerk with no regard for human life. 

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It would be really great if that were true but quite honestly, I don't believe it.  ON this very board, there were approx elventy billion judgements about what people did or did not do pre vaccine.  Since dang near January of 2020, Everyone here has reflected on every decision pre vaccine.  It never has mattered what people did, it only mattered how "they could have done more."

Your family tragically had it enter the home despite precautions, but their were lots of other cases where people flagrantly disregarded health measures, and would not have gotten sick (and/or gotten other people sick) had they followed those measures. People who did that (and many of them did it loud and proud) not only caused bad outcomes for themselves sometimes, but even if they came theough fine, they passed it along to people who WERE taking precautions and caused illness and deaths in those people. I don’t think everyone should have just shut up and kept quiet about that; those decisions affected us all. 

Edited by KSera
  • Like 12
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I would feel sorry for someone if they chose not to vaccinate for whatever reason ( not that they medically couldn't), but then they masked all the time and pretty much stayed home.  But it is REALLY hard for me not to at least think, I told you so, when they won't vaccinate and do tons of dangerous activities unmasked.  It still makes me sad, but yes, they could have prevented it.

I do feel sorry for people that are vaxed and get it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

You can say that it doesn't matter if someone did not wear a mask or got a shot, it's still not their fault if they caught it. 

That gets into some sort of deep meaning of "fault." Is anything ever anyone's fault? Is reckless behavior immoral? Should stupid behavior have consequences? 

  • Like 5
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly want to understand the interactions that keep happening on this thread and other threads. They always seem to go like this: 

Group 1: "Some people are acting totally unreasonably. They are going to parties, not social distancing, and not masking. And now they aren't vaccinating! This is a public health catastrophe and I'm concerned and mad." 

Group 2: "It sounds to me like you're judging ME. Please don't judge me. We're all doing our best." 

Can someone tell me why something that's not aimed at you personally makes you feel judged? Especially when people repeat over and over again that they are NOT judging behavior that is not reckless? 

  • Like 12
  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

About a year ago I knew someone at church who got lung cancer and also smoked cigarettes.  Some people had hard feelings about it but it was because they cared about her.

I did not know her really well (compared to others) and it was a lot easier for me to not think it was her fault.

I have someone close to me who died of lung cancer, and she had not smoked in 30 years, but had smoked fairly heavily before she quit.

I do not think she “deserved” it.

I think if I hadn’t known these people it would be different for me, but knowing people I care about who have had illnesses that are “supposed to be” preventable has just changed how I feel about it.  
 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say people feel guilty anyways?  Even though they did the best they could?  I think that is pretty normal?  I don’t really know.  
 

It can shut down conversation sometimes but I think that’s not the end of the world.

 

There used to be this dynamic where people would say “I have serious behavioral issues with my child who has special needs” and other people would come along and say “my special needs child doesn’t have any behavior issues, how dare people repeat this pernicious stereotype?” And it basically just shut down conversation.


But I think that is not the end of the world.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, happysmileylady said:

It's because "some people are going to parties, not social distancing, not masking" actually means "people who aren't taking exactly the precautions I am. 

OK, that's an interesting take. Why do you think that's what it means? I've never interpreted it that way. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fault is so weird. When you play stupid games, sometimes you get stupid prizes. But also, sometimes life just hands people who didn't play stupid games the stupidest prizes. Sometimes we know who was being dumb about Covid, but sometimes we don't know at all. And doling out blame hurts everyone. But also, when we aren't willing to examine actions and say that some actions put everyone at more risk, then we're being naive and creating more risk for no reason.

There's got to be a balance there somewhere. That's what I mean about the lack of sympathy for the people who are sick now. I'm angry that people aren't doing the things they need to do and getting vaccinated. But I also want to have basic human sympathy for people even if they make bad decisions. Like, I feel for a drug addict who is dying of an overdose. I feel for a smoker who gets cancer years after they smoked. Or for a single parent who gets evicted after mismanaging money. Or a young college woman who goes out drinking alone with no precautions and gets assaulted. Life isn't simple. And people who are not getting vaccinated are also victims of misinformation. Plus, some people will get sick and die despite doing everything "right."

I recently found out that my brother, who had been taking a TON of Covid risks and had been very angry (as in, lots of cursing at us, cutting off contact angry) at my mother and I for saying that we wouldn't go see him without testing back before the vaccine - actually did get Covid. His whole family did. His kids (too young to be vaccinated) just got exposed again for at least the third time this past week. He got it months ago, before the vaccine was available. They're all fine now and did all get vaccinated. But I know he took a lot of risks. Some of them were probably necessary - he runs a business in another state so air travel wasn't easily optional for him. But others were probably not necessary - I know they ate in restaurants and went to multiple weddings and saw friends in person and also had a bit of a revolving door with in laws who were also eating in restaurants and seeing friends in person, meaning their bubble was not a bubble at all. I'm really having a hard time not being absolutely judgmental about this. We know he took risks. And then he lashed out at us for saying that we couldn't share those risks by seeing him. It's really, really hard not to feel some schadenfreude about the whole thing. And I honestly kind of do. But I don't love that about myself. I want to be a better person than that.

 

Edited by Farrar
  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, happysmileylady said:

"They could have done more."  Those are the exact words earlier in the thread.  And versions of them have be across threads.  Consistantly being told "they could have done more" often results in people thinking that others think there was more that could be done. 

Well, I suppose we all could have done more, if you think the one and only goal is to prevent COVID. Like, seriously, we could all never leave the house. That would be more for every single one of us, because none of us are in fact locking ourselves indoors. 

But I don't think "they could have done more" is supposed to apply to people who were taking reasonable precautions, where "reasonable" is definitely a broad range. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

7 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It's because "some people are going to parties, not social distancing, not masking" actually means "people who aren't taking exactly the precautions I am. 

No. No it doesn't. Most people are not doing what I'm doing. But the ones I'm upset with are the ones partying, not distancing not masking not vaccinating. And a large part of the reason I'm upset with them is because then when they get sick they put people like your husband at risk. 

Don't assume people mean something different than what they are saying. 

  • Like 20
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Lecka said:

About a year ago I knew someone at church who got lung cancer and also smoked cigarettes.  Some people had hard feelings about it but it was because they cared about her.

I did not know her really well (compared to others) and it was a lot easier for me to not think it was her fault.

I have someone close to me who died of lung cancer, and she had not smoked in 30 years, but had smoked fairly heavily before she quit.

I do not think she “deserved” it.

I think if I hadn’t known these people it would be different for me, but knowing people I care about who have had illnesses that are “supposed to be” preventable has just changed how I feel about it.  
 

 

Yeah, my dad smoked for over 4o years.  I begged him to quit beginning at 5 years old, flushing his cigarettes down the toilet.  He refused. It eventually caused problems where I had to take care of him.  I resent that in a way I do not with alzheimers and my husbands grandmother. Cause of death on death certificate was smoking.  Yes, he is at fault.  I loved him. Still do. He deeply regretted his choices at the end.  We have personal responsibility.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

No. No it doesn't. Most people are not doing what I'm doing. But the ones I'm upset with are the ones partying, not distancing not masking not vaccinating. And a large part of the reason I'm upset with them is because then when they get sick they put people like your husband at risk. 

Don't assume people mean something different than what they are saying. 

Right. Like, right now, I'm only doing outdoor stuff. Some people I know are doing both indoor and outdoor stuff. Some people are vaccinated and still masking and some people have stopped masking. 

I think there's a vast range of reasonable behavior. And there's also a vast range of unreasonable behavior. And the unreasonable behavior is not morally neutral, because it puts others at risk. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It would be really great if that were true but quite honestly, I don't believe it.  ON this very board, there were approx elventy billion judgements about what people did or did not do pre vaccine.  Since dang near January of 2020, Everyone here has reflected on every decision pre vaccine.  It never has mattered what people did, it only mattered how "they could have done more."

In general, yes, but THIS conversation is specifically about post-vaccine covid risk behavior.  There was a always a great deal of luck and privilege in play to even be able to avoid society and still keep food on the table.  A year later the conversation has changed and progressed. Now the playing field is more even.  Vaccines are free and available to everyone.  It has never been easier to protect yourself and people are STILL not interested.   

  • Like 12
  • Thanks 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It's because "some people are going to parties, not social distancing, not masking" actually means "people who aren't taking exactly the precautions I am. 

I really don't understand the attempt to derail this thread. I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for you, but IIRC your DH passed away before a vaccine was available. So that pretty much has nothing to do with this thread.

I don't know how I would feel if someone close to me who wasn't vaccinated got Covid and became seriously ill or died. I guess I'd feel sorry for them, but maybe not. It was their choice to not get a very effective vaccine. Right now I feel sorry for people across the world who would love to be vaccinated but don't have them available.

Edited by Pawz4me
  • Like 13
  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

You are right, there's nothing that can change the past. 

 

But I feel constantly bombarded with the idea that "they could have done more."  a direct portion of what I quoted.  "They Could Have Done More."

 

 

I am so very sorry for your loss! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

This statement and others like it say otherwise.  Because statements like this sound 100% exactly like "you could have done more."

This conversation is all about vaccination. As well as rejection of mitigation advice.  Things that happened before vaccines were available are not being addressed. Things that happened despite mitigation are not being addressed. I am truly sorry for what happened but you are reading things into this discussion. 

  • Like 23
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Farrar said:

There's got to be a balance there somewhere. That's what I mean about the lack of sympathy for the people who are sick now. I'm angry that people aren't doing the things they need to do and getting vaccinated. But I also want to have basic human sympathy for people even if they make bad decisions. Like, I feel for a drug addict who is dying of an overdose. I feel for a smoker who gets cancer years after they smoked. Or for a single parent who gets evicted after mismanaging money. Or a young college woman who goes out drinking alone with no precautions and gets assaulted. Life isn't simple. And people who are not getting vaccinated are also victims of misinformation.

All of this, and it's why I'm the most angry at all the people promoting vaccine fear right now. At the point they get sick, I will feel sorry that they are sick and hope that they get better, but until then, I'm angry at them for all the OTHER people they are currently causing to get sick and die. Vast, huge numbers of people. It really is indefensible, despite the innocent "I'm just sharing 'alternate information', it's really not my fault if people then believe it and don't get vaccinated and die as a result" act.

I'm also angry at what they are putting healthcare workers. HCW are being treated like a public utility they are just entitled to, rather than human beings who are being tremendously affected by this and many of whom have a limit where they say "enough" and walk away from the job. Which again, affects us all.

  • Like 16
  • Thanks 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Farrar said:

I'm very dubious that people who refused any of the options so far will take the Novamax. Like, maybe a tiny handful, but not a significant percentage.

I also find it hard. And I find it especially hard that so many people I know who are usually compassionate and kind are reaching a breaking point where they don't care and think the people who refuse to get vaccinated deserve what they get. There's a part of me that feels that way too, but the suffering is so big. I don't want to feel that way. They've been misled by conspiracy theories and hatred.

The second is me--- I think we need to seriously discuss the philosophical and ethical ramifications of prioritizing COVID patients above any one else.  Why are COVID patients more important than cancer patients, organ transplant patients, autoimmune patients, trauma patients, overdose patients,  etc, etc, etc.?

And no, I know this is a dark side of me and I really do not want people to die and suffer but I think we do need to think about how important is COVID versus anything else?  We have just rushed into this (and I understand why) with thinking that COVID is prime, but considering there are effective vaccines, why is that still the case?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, KSera said:

I’ve been thinking about this and wondering if it will even make a difference. I think a big part of why it won’t make a big enough difference is because if only 1 to 2% of those who contracted it die of it, that leaves like 98% of people to still carry-on and say they got it and it was fine. Maybe 90% would be more fair, as 10% or so are likely to have a severe case that’s enough to make them really regret not having protected themself. And then there’s the phenomenon of people who have lost family members, but have an attitude like @kbuttondescribes where they either say their family member is better off, or there’s nothing they could’ve done anyway, or they rationalize it in some other way, which I can’t really blame them for, because it would be incredibly difficult to have that happen and think that there actually was a way you could’ve prevented it. On the other hand, daily at this point you can find people going on the news to spread the word that they made a mistake by refusing the vaccine, and they or their family member paid dearly for it, and urging people to go get vaccinated. It takes a lot of humility to do that, though.

I know that the daughter of a 50 something year old woman who died of COVID in that Florida IT department where the only people who did not get COVID were vaccinated claimed that her mom didn't die of COVID, she died of stress.

  • Sad 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Eilonwy said:

I have a relative who says they are waiting for Novamax, with the explanation that it is a “traditional” vaccine rather than an experimental mRNA type.  AstraZeneca is not available here, and there are only mRNA types.  So I do think it will make a difference for a certain group of people who are now hesitant but not absolutely anti-vax.  My phone wants to autocorrect anti-vax to anti-vacation and anti-van…

I guess you shouldn't tell her that Novavax is not a "tradtional" vaccine, but a different new tech.  Why won't she get J&J?  It is not mRNA...

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so sad reading this thread. So so sad. It's been a long time since I have cried over a thread. Anger, condemnation, fear, grief, compassion, politics all rolled up into one hot mess. 

Edited by lewelma
  • Sad 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

Even if they don't understand how vaccines work and "waiting for a traditional vaccine" is a face-saving measure, I don't even care.  If they get ANY vaccine if helps everyone.  Between the data coming out of hospitals and more vaccine choices, I really really hope people become less hesitant about vaccines.

I don’t think it is based on solid knowledge at all, but I hope it will make a difference to have more possibilities.

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

That makes sense in the context of availability. In the US, we have J and J, which is not an mRNA vaccine. PeterPan lives in the same state and country as me, so I am still curious what the reasoning might be for my context, but thank you for chiming in. I hope it's made available to your relative who's waiting! 

We don’t have J&J here, I had forgotten about that one.  This reason may not be a factor for people in your area. I really hope J&J or Novamax will become available here, and will help him feel comfortable with vaccination and just go get it done. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

The second is me--- I think we need to seriously discuss the philosophical and ethical ramifications of prioritizing COVID patients above any one else.  Why are COVID patients more important than cancer patients, organ transplant patients, autoimmune patients, trauma patients, overdose patients,  etc, etc, etc.?

And no, I know this is a dark side of me and I really do not want people to die and suffer but I think we do need to think about how important is COVID versus anything else?  We have just rushed into this (and I understand why) with thinking that COVID is prime, but considering there are effective vaccines, why is that still the case?

During a spike with hospital overrun, patients with a contagious disease need to be prioritized so that the spike can be managed and brought back down. Limited resources in a time of hospital overrun unfortunately means that other patients might not have the same priority. Though in my state even in the darkest days other emergent patients still were treated. Always. So in my state, the old “Covid patients are leaving cancer patients to die on the streets “ trope is a straw man. 
 

During times between Covid waves all patients are being seen (as far as I can tell) everywhere. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, kbutton said:

I am sinful enough that I can't wait for these people to solicit my support for pro-life causes, and I will tell them how much I don't believe they are pro-life any longer. These are people that also believe that babies go to heaven when they are aborted, and they would NEVER apply their Covid rationalization to the issue of abortion. In fact, one of the local pregnancy center directors has been instrumental in spreading LIES on her personal FB page that I've seen people embrace and share. She's also a state legislator who was instrumental in drumming up support to strip the state's and the governor's emergency powers. 

Being pro-life is about so much more than abortion. I am happy to support pro-life causes that involve meaningful support for moms wanting to avoid an abortion, but I will have to rethink partnering with people who behaved in a totally non pro-life way for more than a year (and counting). 

One thing I did realize is that I think some of the same people who are black and white on abortion to what I consider an extreme.  I am pro-life but did have to make an exception that I thought abortion was justified when a 10 year old- who had been repeatedly raped, abused her whole life, failed by Children's Services, and medical experts were saying that if she gave birth, she would have a very high chance of losing any chances to ever having children with a husband.  But the same extremely black and white thinkers were very against the judge and the order.   At least one of those people I know is anti-vacc, including the COVID vacc.

Although I have to say that she may decide to get the COVID VAcc if it means getting a needed surgery/

Edited by TravelingChris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I guess you shouldn't tell her that Novavax is not a "tradtional" vaccine, but a different new tech.  Why won't she get J&J?  It is not mRNA...

I don’t want to say anything that would discourage him! J&J isn’t available here, unfortunately, just the two mRNA ones.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I'm so sad reading this thread. So so sad. It's been a long time since I have cried over a thread. Anger, condemnation, fear, grief, politics all rolled up into one hot mess. 

(((Lewelma)))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

The problem is that the "range isn't so broad."  People who wear the wrong masks have been vilified.  People who go to funerals without masks are vilified.  Villification isn't JUST people who attend giant concerts.  It's extended to people who have funerals of 25 people who don't mask. 

This is one of those situations where regional differences are HUGE.  I can't even imagine attending a funeral service indoors, in a single room with 25 other people, pre-vaccine, and having it even be a legal option for anyone to attend unmasked.  I work in a small boutique that get's maybe 10-15 customers a day.  People still mask coming in and our vaccination rate is really high.  It's still legally required in a lot of places.  Even where it's optional, you see more masked faces than not.  It can be a HARD to have a conversation about something when everyone is coming from vastly different realities. Here, the social pressure is to mask.  Where my sister lives in Florida, it's completely opposite and wearing a mask involves swimming against the tide every day.  It' would be disingenuous for me to claim I'm bravely doing "the right thing" when it's the easier thing to do in my town.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shelydon said:

For Covid pre-vaccine-- some people definitely chose a lifestyle that led to their illness and ultimately their death. I had friends and acquaintances who either got very sick or passed away after attending church or other larger gatherings unmasked. They knew that they had a strong possibility of getting sick, as they told me they were " choosing to live life." Other friends got it from doing their job as healthcare providers, or my elderly relatives got it from their nursing home through no fault of their own.   NOW-- everyone over the age of 12 can choose to be vaccinated and therefore choose not to get exceptionally ill or die. 99.7 percent of the death  and hospitalizations in my area are unvaccinated individuals. For me personally, it is harder to deal with relatives getting sick and dying because they are refusing to vaccinate than it was for those who were just refused to mask or inadvertently caught the virus through no fault of their own. 

We just had a Medevac helicopter pilot who did get his first Moderna vaccine in January but got sick a day later= he is sure he had COVID already- get out of UAB hospital this week.  He has been on ECMO for most of the time.  He has just turned 51 and my dh on observing him on the news remarked how he looked at least 70 now.  He has to still have oxygen but can do that at home.  He is very pro Vaccine. https://www.al.com/coronavirus/2021/07/no-covid-patient-was-hospitalized-longer-at-uab-today-he-got-to-go-home.html

  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, KSera said:

All of this, and it's why I'm the most angry at all the people promoting vaccine fear right now. At the point they get sick, I will feel sorry that they are sick and hope that they get better, but until then, I'm angry at them for all the OTHER people they are currently causing to get sick and die. Vast, huge numbers of people. It really is indefensible, despite the innocent "I'm just sharing 'alternate information', it's really not my fault if people then believe it and don't get vaccinated and die as a result" act.

I'm also angry at what they are putting healthcare workers. HCW are being treated like a public utility they are just entitled to, rather than human beings who are being tremendously affected by this and many of whom have a limit where they say "enough" and walk away from the job. Which again, affects us all.

As the spouse of a healthcare worker, my anger at so much of the selfishness I see regarding covid just gets the best of me at times. It’s a stressful enough job in normal times, and now it is just so much worse. I’m not proud of some of the snarky posts I’ve written in response to vaccine misinformation and I want to be a better person, but some days it is just so hard.

  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, my dad smoked for over 4o years.  I begged him to quit beginning at 5 years old, flushing his cigarettes down the toilet.  He refused. It eventually caused problems where I had to take care of him.  I resent that in a way I do not with alzheimers and my husbands grandmother. Cause of death on death certificate was smoking.  Yes, he is at fault.  I loved him. Still do. He deeply regretted his choices at the end.  We have personal responsibility.

Which is why I feel so responsible for my own behavior. I think it is time to mask again. Rates are going up. If I cause someone else to get sick, I could not live with myself. Though it may be lower since I am vaccinated, it is still possible.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

This is one of those situations where regional differences are HUGE.  I can't even imagine attending a funeral service indoors, in a single room with 25 other people, pre-vaccine, and having it even be a legal option for anyone to attend unmasked.  I work in a small boutique that get's maybe 10-15 customers a day.  People still mask coming in and our vaccination rate is really high.  It's still legally required in a lot of places.  Even where it's optional, you see more masked faces than not.  It can be a HARD to have a conversation about something when everyone is coming from vastly different realities. Here, the social pressure is to mask.  Where my sister lives in Florida, it's completely opposite and wearing a mask involves swimming against the tide every day.  It' would be disingenuous for me to claim I'm bravely doing "the right thing" when it's the easier thing to do in my town.

I went to a funeral today, inside, probably about 25 people.  About 3/4 wore masks at the service, but at the house it was just me, dh, and one other person wearing them.  I ate outside.  I am fully vaccinated, and live in a place with very high vax rates (comparatively), but these Delta numbers are making me squirrely.  I am also going to group fitness classes, where I am the only one masking.  The classes have been so good to get back to for both my mental and physical health, but it seems ridiculous to mask in the grocery store and not in a small room of heavy-breathing people, so against the tide I swim.  

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

I really don't understand the attempt to derail this thread. I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for you, but IIRC your DH passed away before a vaccine was available. So that pretty much has nothing to do with this thread.

I don't know how I would feel if someone close to me who wasn't vaccinated got Covid and became seriously ill or died. I guess I'd feel sorry for them, but maybe not. It was their choice to not get a very effective vaccine. Right now I feel sorry for people across the world who would love to be vaccinated but don't have them available.

That is where I am at too.  And all the children who can't be vaccinated.  And the organ transplant people whose vaccines are often less effective.  Etc, etc. 

What I am very furious about is anti-vacc health care workers=  they should not exist.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

My Dh didn't attend church.  My DH wore his mask (ultimately a varity of homemade and basic paper work provided masks) every day he went to work.  The co-worker he got it from wore his mask (work provided paper mask only) every day.  The co-worker's child wore his masks at school.  Child was sent home the day symptoms appeared and co-worker was sent home the day the workplace was aware the kid had been sent home.

 

Everyone followed every single dang protocol recommended.  No one in the chain of events that has me where I am at any one point CHOSE a lifestyle.....No one made choices that contributed to this.   And I am just really tired of being told that he or I did something wrong.

I am very sorry for your loss.  I don't think you were doing the wrong thing at all.  Neither was my dsil's boss who also died.  But they all died before there was a vaccine and specifically, the situation now when anyone 12 or older can get the vaccine in the USA.  We just shouldn't be having new outbreaks.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

It's not a secret that a great many people did everything they could and still caught Covid and died.  It's a global tragedy and for a long time, even when you did everything in your power, you couldn't protect yourself.  A lot of people who FEEL like they stayed healthy because they were good at taking all of the precautions were really just good at not breathing covid contaminated air . . . that's luck, not skill.  It was all awful and nobody asked for any of this.  

Now that we're in the post-vaccine portion of the pandemic, we really CAN do something to greatly reduce our risk of death.  That's the conversation we're having now and it's no reflection on what anyone did or didn't do pre-vaccine.

And a lot of us just had the right genes.  My HLAB27 gene that caused my Ankolysing Spondylosis helps protect me against COVID and the flu- no wonder I have never gotten the flu=I always get the vaccine but even when others in my family got the flu a few years ago when the vaccine was bad, I didn't.  And I am immunosuppressed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I guess you shouldn't tell her that Novavax is not a "tradtional" vaccine, but a different new tech.  Why won't she get J&J?  It is not mRNA...

I had read that Novavax is a protein subunit vax, the same kind of vax used for hepatitis and other diseases since something like the mid-1980s. Is that not right? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

I'm so sad reading this thread. So so sad. It's been a long time since I have cried over a thread. Anger, condemnation, fear, grief, compassion, politics all rolled up into one hot mess. 

Really? I'm sorry this thread is upsetting you. Did I say something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I won’t lie.  Sometimes I use y’all as a punching bag.  Because it’s not his fault.  

“they could have done more” just makes it feel like people blame him and me.  Like people here on this boards that have known a lot about me, are placing blame.  People don’t mean it personal but it sounds and feels like it is.  

I'm very sorry. That must be a heavy burden to carry -- the grief as well as the feeling that people blame you 😕 . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

I am sorry.   I try super hard to operate within the idea that offense is taken, not given.  

Oh, I dunno. I think you have full right to be furious at insensitive jerks... at least, I'm personally not that charitable and don't strive to be. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Farrar said:

I'm very dubious that people who refused any of the options so far will take the Novamax. Like, maybe a tiny handful, but not a significant percentage.

Well I guess we'll just see. I have not taken the vaccine yet (for a variety of reasons, including that I was receiving a treatment that disallowed it when the vaccines began) and novamax is now on my probable list for what I'll do to be able to cruise. I agree that if I were not cruising (and had not already delayed due to the treatment I was receiving), probably the different vaccine would not make a difference. But who knows for a population. It was pretty clear from the video I watched and they studies they're running (delivering influenza and covid shots at the same time) that they're going to try to bundle them. So anyone who had previously taken a flu shot but was *not* willing to take the mRNA vaxes would be the logical market.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

I had read that Novavax is a protein subunit vax, the same kind of vax used for hepatitis and other diseases since something like the mid-1980s. Is that not right? 

All I know is what I saw on this video. It will be out and in the arms of thousands of people before I have to decide.

 

Edited by PeterPan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

I am sorry.   I try super hard to operate within the idea that offense is taken, not given.  
 

 

sometimes, I fail in that understanding.  

I am very sorry for the pain and grief you are feeling. Some of these discussions must be really hard, given what you’ve experienced. Sending a gentle hug your way.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

You can say that it doesn't matter if someone did not wear a mask or got a shot, it's still not their fault if they caught it. 

Hmmm... If some chose to have unprotected sex and caught AIDs, it is totally their fault they caught AIDS.   If you choose to drink six beers then drive across the city and get in a wreck, it's totally your fault for driving drunk. If you choose not to vaccinate, or pre-vaccine if you chose to not wear a mask and hang out in a bar and catch Covid, that too is your fault. People do have responsibility for their behavior. However, sometimes people can be on their best behavior, or doing everything they can to remain healthy and they can still get sick with any variety of diseases.  I will never say that the way someone behaves doesn't have a consequence. It does. 

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I won’t lie.  Sometimes I use y’all as a punching bag.  Because it’s not his fault.  
 

“they could have done more” just makes it feel like people blame him and me.  Like people here on this boards that have known a lot about me, are placing blame.  People don’t mean it personal but it sounds and feels like it is.  

100 percent agree. You can do all the right things and still get really sick. You can do all the right things and still a car accident. Maybe it's even harder when you do everything right and still lose someone. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I honestly want to understand the interactions that keep happening on this thread and other threads. They always seem to go like this: 

Group 1: "Some people are acting totally unreasonably. They are going to parties, not social distancing, and not masking. And now they aren't vaccinating! This is a public health catastrophe and I'm concerned and mad." 

Group 2: "It sounds to me like you're judging ME. Please don't judge me. We're all doing our best." 

Can someone tell me why something that's not aimed at you personally makes you feel judged? Especially when people repeat over and over again that they are NOT judging behavior that is not reckless? 

In my opinion Group 1 is mostly saying not vaccinating=reckless, black and white. That's not true for me or for other people I know that aren't vaccinated. So I do feel judged. Not everyone that isn't vaccinated is reckless (or stupid or believes in conspiracy theories, etc.)

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

In my opinion Group 1 is mostly saying not vaccinating=reckless, black and white. That's not true for me or for other people I know that aren't vaccinated. So I do feel judged. Not everyone that isn't vaccinated is reckless (or stupid or believes in conspiracy theories, etc.)

I think people generally acknowledge an exception for those whose health conditions don’t allow them to be vaccinated. 
 

Just speaking for myself, the word I most associate with those who aren’t vaccinated and don’t have medical conditions preventing them from doing so is selfish. I think people need to view it from a public health perspective more than a personal perspective. It’s the same with pre-vaccine resistance to masking, avoiding indoor large gatherings, etc. Everyone needs to do their part for the greater good when it comes to public health and the pandemic has very clearly shown that some are not willing to do so.

Edited by Frances
  • Like 15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

I'm specifically referring to people who have vaccines available of them, who choose not to mask and not to socially distance. I'm talking about people in my own circle who now have long-term heart and lung damage post-covid,  and who happen, coincidentally, to also be the people who also berated me for "living in fear" and "hiding in my house" when we took a number of precautions.  If you choose not to vaccinate and choose not to mask and choose not to socially distance as of now and you are over 12+ I do think you should take some accountability for your choices. 

 

 

And some of us, in a post vaccine world, still just have cr@p choices. No good solution and no good end game. 
 

I honestly think quality of life all around would be improved if we practiced “eyes on your own paper” a lot more. 

Edited by BlsdMama
  • Like 4
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...