A pandemic funeral -- please help me think

[Storygirl]

My mother died on Friday, and her funeral is this Friday. DH and I are weighing out some decisions regarding having our teens around the elderly family members and friends who may attend. My dad is 86; my uncle is 88; my aunt is 84, and any friends who knew my mom will be in their 80's. Hopefully some of them won't come, but I have to assume they will be present.

My siblings insist on having a public visitation at the funeral home for two hours before the funeral. I was against it -- I just wanted a private family funeral, and Dad would have been fine with that, too, but my siblings prevailed, and there is no point in reviewing arguments about that on this thread, because it won't change. Our plans are not finalized yet, but I think that DH and I will take two cars (it's a 2-hour drive), and he will arrive late with our kids, keeping them away from the funeral home during the visitation hours and just arriving for the funeral itself, to reduce the amount of time they are in the room. My kids, DH, and I will mask, but I expect that my siblings, their families, and perhaps my Dad will not. The funeral home has a mask requirement but will not actively prevent people from coming in without masks, and I don't know how many people will comply. My brother and his wife did not wear masks at the funeral home, during the planning meeting last Friday, and my Dad wore his with his nose out.

I can't make my dad or siblings do as I think would be wise (they know my views, which are different than their own), and I won't skip my mom's funeral or take the role of mask police when I'm mourning Mom, so I'm just going to have to deal with the pandemic-related stress somehow, observe precautions myself, and pray that Dad will stay safe.

But I can make decisions about what to do about my own kids.

My oldest, who is in college, is unfortunately quarantined on campus, due to exposure to a positive teammate almost two weeks ago. She is due to be out of quarantine tomorrow, and she is going to be tested (today, I hope) to make sure that she is negative. If negative, she will come home for the rest of the week, to avoid any further exposure on campus before the funeral, and will do her classes remotely. If positive, she will remain on campus in quarantine, and we will find a way for her to view the funeral virtually.

My other three kids are attending school in person in public high school. They went to school today, but we are thinking of pulling them from school for the rest of the week, to make sure that (1) we all stay healthy and can attend Mom's funeral. And (2) that we reduce the chances of picking up the virus over the next couple of days and exposing others at the funeral to it.

But if we pull them from their classes, they won't get any remote instruction and will just be counted as an unexcused absence. Some of the teachers already gave them work to do at home, because my kids told them they may not be back this week. However, there is a limit to how many unexcused absence hours a student can have in a school year, before being reported to the state (who will issue a warning), and taking four days off will use up a big chunk of that. I talked to the school secretary today, and she said that it is our decision, but to be aware that there would not be an exception to the policy. I'd have to look up how many hours are actually allowed to be missed; I do know that last year, DS16 got close to the allowable unexcused hours by the end of the school year, just from taking a sick day (and not having a doctor's note) every once in a while.

Our high school has had some active cases at the school, during last week and the week before. At least three and maybe up to five (the way they list cases, it is tricky to be certain). And they have been in my boys' classes (two in band and one in an English class), but my boys have not been identified as close contacts who needed to quarantine. We did take one of my sons to be tested last week, just as a precaution (negative). My point is that cases exist in our school and have been close calls with our kids recently, even though the case count has not been high.

So...all of that information leads up to my question:  would you keep the high schoolers home from Tuesday through Thursday, before the Friday funeral, or send them to school on some or all of those days?

[Kassia]

I don't know the answer, but wanted to say that I'm very sorry about the loss of your mother.  My FIL died in July and we had many of the same issues/questions you are facing now due to Covid.  The pandemic makes a difficult situation so much more difficult.  

 

[Scarlett]

I am very sorry for the loss of your mother.

I think your plan sounds balanced and respectful and as cautious as you can be under the circumstances.  I would pull the kids for the rest of the week.  And I would not worry about reaching your/their limit of unexcused absences in the middle of a pandemic.

[Storygirl]

Thank you both.  I think I remember your posts about your situation, @Kassia.

My mom had Alzheimer's for 15 years and lived in a nursing home for 9 years. We had about ten days' notice of her decline, but her death still came suddenly. When I was visiting her on Friday morning, the nurse first told me that Mom would probably not make it through the weekend. Then she did another exam a few minutes later and told me that she thought Mom wouldn't make it until the end of the day. Mom died less than two hours later.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Storygirl

[Melissa in Australia]

Sorry for your loss

My grandmother died in July. We had a covid funeral. Only 10 people were allowed to attend. 

Everyone else zoomed. 

It sucked. 

[Storygirl]

Yeah, the pandemic stinks. It goes without saying, but I'm saying it anyway.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Sorry for your loss

My grandmother died in July. We had a covid funeral. Only 10 people were allowed to attend. 

Everyone else zoomed. 

It sucked. 

My FIL died October 1st.  It was completely via Zoom.  My MIL had a few of her children with her at her house.  It was hard,  but a lot of people were able to attend.  Abut 300.

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, Storygirl said:

Thank you both.  I think I remember your posts about your situation, @Kassia.

My mom had Alzheimer's for 15 years and lived in a nursing home for 9 years. We had about ten days' notice of her decline, but her death still came suddenly. When I was visiting her on Friday morning, the nurse first told me that Mom would probably not make it through the weekend. Then she did another exam a few minutes later and told me that she thought Mom wouldn't make it until the end of the day. Mom died less than two hours later.

My FIL who died in October from Alzheimer's declined suddenly in that way too.  It is sad,  but there is such a relief too that their suffering is over.

(((((((Storygirl)))))))))

[fairfarmhand]

I'd keep the kids out the rest of the week.

I'd  just document what you've shared here in an email to the principal. I'd acknowledge that you understand no exceptions to the absence policy and you will do your best to avoid unnecessary absences in the rest of the year, but you do not know what the future holds. I'd also mention that you have spoken to the teachers involved and will be ensuring that your kids are keeping up with their assignments. 

The only reason I would do this is for documentation purposes so that if you have any warnings or legal problems in the future, you will have a paper trail of what was happening. I do not see how any reasonable official would do anything past making a phone call to check on you and your kids in this situation. 

And if the worst happens and you get a warning from the state, you get a warning from the state. You will have documentation that you did your best to let everyone konw what was going on but you refused to put your elderly relatives at risk.

[catz]

Honestly, I would probably just not have your teens attend the funeral.  I would attend the visitation very briefly, find well spaced seating for the funeral, and bow out quickly.  Do you have a couple N95's and can you wear glasses?  I'd be  worried about teens bringing it in undetected if there are known cases circulating at their schools as getting it and 3 days is really a meaningful time to isolate to prevent them from bringing it in.  And I know my own teens are good with masking, but not as conscientious about fiddling with it, cross contamination, removing at the first possible moment with little regard, etc.   These kinds of events are really driving spread in our state.  If your college student has had a full quarantine period, I'd consider bringing her if she wanted to attend.  If you were in an area with easy and fast testing, that might be another option to pair with maybe a shorter isolation.  

My MIL died in April and my kids couldn't attend her funeral (which was just 10 of us and outdoors, all masked). We did find a way to broadcast the service to her siblings and grandkids, etc via Zoom.  Yes, it sucks.  😞  I'm sorry for your loss.  

Edited November 9, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[regentrude]

16 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Honestly, I would probably just not have your teens attend the funeral.  I would attend the visitation very briefly, find well spaced seating for the funeral, and bow out quickly

I am sorry for your loss.
I would not have the kids attend the funeral. I am not worried about the school repercussions, but it seems to me an unnecessary risk of exposure for many people - they could not just spread it, but they might also pick it up if you have many unmasked attendees.
I would attend alone and for the briefest time span possible. You can honor your mother in other ways, and you do not owe your extended family a demonstrative gesture. (If that sounds callous: I am currently dealing with the very real possibility of a funeral for a close family member soon and have already decided not to travel because of the Covid risk, even though this is counter-cultural and "not done".)

Edited November 9, 2020 by regentrude

[Ausmumof3]

I’m so sorry about the loss of your mum especially at such a difficult and complicated time.
 

If you are having the kids attend I would definitely pull them out now.  It might be worth sending a letter so there’s something in writing if unexcused absences come up.    If the kids weren’t particularly close to her I would seriously consider having them attend virtually instead.  I don’t know where exactly you are but in some areas anyone getting sick now risks being cared for in an overwhelmed hospital over the next couple of months.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[mommyoffive]

I would pull the kids if you are going to have them attend .  But als think it maybe safer for them to do it virtually.   They have exposure and the people are elderly. 

I am so sorry for your loss.  I am so sorry that covid is making this more of a difficult time.

[cbollin]

many hugs.  This still hits home for me as well. My dad died in July.  We live 10 hours drive away.  We watched the funeral remotely.  oh my. that was not an easy thing to do. Much easier to watch funeral of husband's uncle 3 weeks before that, or do the drive up and wave funeral for a friend.  it was not easy to not be there but it was how it happened.  Then the next week took time to be with my mom. I still have to remind myself that it was the safest course of action for all to not go in that week.  one week made the difference for everything.

One thing different in out situation is that we did not have kids in group learning the week it happened.  They had been in a group outdoor thing less than 2 weeks prior.  From my experience, I'd like to follow suit that the kids don't have to attend in person. If you're in US, a major holiday is coming up and then you can all visit. Wear your mask.  have kids wear double masks too when they hug grandpa. by the way double check with the school policy that family funeral and bereavement is excused vs unexcused. That sounds odd in my ears that it would unexcused for family funeral but maybe my southern mountain culture is showing.

I still got to be with my mom while she did final  paperwork with the funeral home and cemetery. couple of things with the lawyers and finance guy.  it sucked. but we had to wait it out a few extra days to be

I'm sorry we have a similar experience to share.

oh PS:  the funeral was easy to broadcast (the funeral home did that).  The private graveside service was really hard to do. the funeral home tried to zoom us in, but that didn't work for obvious reasons such as needing wifi.   We should have thought a few minutes ahead and had my brother facetime from his phone. cell coverage was strong.  but in the moment, no one could think how to do that.  But knowing what I know now. I would have said, facetime me.  and then figured a way to screen share to my adult daughter (24 y.o  who was in another city from me.  She didn't get to go to the funeral or the after trip. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by cbollin

[bolt.]

Option 1, for us, would be to have the teens (except the one who has been actually isolated for 14+ days) skip the funeral. It's harsh to miss a funeral, but the truth is they *are* a serious disease vector for the event and everyone there. In addition, you, also (because you are in a household with them) are also not inconsequential as a disease vector. But it's your mother. You should attend, but either alone or with one support person if you feel you need that. not with the family. (So sorry.)

If you can't do what is ideal (to go without the teens) I totally get that. There are a lot of factors, and not all of the factors will yield to the science here. There are other things that matter too. If you plan to take them you need to pull them out of school as soon as possible and also test them (if there is any hope of results before the event). I'd be shocked (and appalled) if anyone is following up on 'unexcused absences' this school year. I understand that they told you that the official policy can't be changed... but the realistic enforcement measures are likely to be modified for the flippin' worldwide pandemic!

So don't worry about the school. There is no comparison between the ethical responsibility you have to keep your relatives as safe as humanly possible and your minor accountability to the paperwork of an educational bureaucracy. They aren't even on the same plane of reality. Put it out of your mind.

It seems to me that you are in a (really normal!) grief headspace of wanting to do everything that you can do in just the right way. (It actually happens to tons of people: that's why families fight over funerals in the stupidest ways. They warn us about it in ministry school.) It is having the effect that you're flattening or elevating various "things" to the same level of importance. Trust me: health and safety are more important than school records, okay? One of those things actually is a life-or-death decision.

[stephanier.1765]

I wish I had advice to help you with these tough decisions but all I can give are some virtual hugs. I am so sorry!

 

[ktgrok]

I think your teens need to not attend the funeral. I hate saying that, and I'm sure they will be upset to miss it, but less upset than if they went and gave an elderly relative Covid who later ended up in the ICU or died. Truth is, you are just as much a vector as they are, since you are exposed to them, but I get that you can't miss it...but I'd go late and stand by myself in the back, not hug any relatives, etc. explain your children have been exposed, so you are keeping your distance. Repeat it over and over. Explain the kids stayed home because they are exposed due to cases at school, and couldn't bear to expose anyone else. Repeat it over and over. 

[saraha]

I am so sorry that you have this on top of the rest of the suckiness that is 2020. I am glad your mom is at peace.

I will be the dissenter though. If it were me, I would not pull the kids out of school since I don't think three days is enough time to watch for symptoms or get a meaningful test in my area. I would do the 2 car thing like you are planning, have dh and kids attend funeral only all masked up. Maybe they can sit in the back row so as to not have people breathing in their direction. I might sound a little bitter here, but I am worn out trying to protect people who are not interested in protecting themselves or anyone else. You have enough on your plate to take on the responsibility for other adults safety who haven't asked for it.

How do your teens feel about it?

Edited November 9, 2020 by saraha

[prairiewindmomma]

Do what you need to to be at peace with yourself... but I would not pull my kids from school. Here's why:

1. Unexcused absences are a PITA in my district. 

2. Those who are choosing not to wear masks are also likely not masking in public, and are likely going everywhere they want when they want to.  I know the 80yo in my life is meeting up with multiple friends during the course of a week.  Since most exposure comes from community/social exposure, they are just as likely to have picked it up while having brunch at a restaurant with a friend as they are from my kid.  Actually more likely, because my kids will be masked.

3. I will have my kids wear masks---as much as to protect themselves from others as to protect others from them.

4. I would not have them attend visitation.

5. I would have college student view remotely.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your mother, and I'm sorry you're having to deal with this extra level of stress.

[*LC]

 

10 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Do what you need to to be at peace with yourself.

2. Those who are choosing not to wear masks are also likely not masking in public, and are likely going everywhere they want when they want to.  I know the 80yo in my life is meeting up with multiple friends during the course of a week.  Since most exposure comes from community/social exposure, they are just as likely to have picked it up while having brunch at a restaurant with a friend as they are from my kid.  Actually more likely, because my kids will be masked.

3. I will have my kids wear masks---as much as to protect themselves from others as to protect others from them.

4. I would not have them attend visitation.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your mother, and I'm sorry you're having to deal with this extra level of stress.

I agree completely with prairie wind momma on these points.

 

Something I have not seen mentioned is what does your dad and your kids say about them attending? My number one concern would be what is my dad wanting/thinking? I know there is absolutely no way my dad would be okay with his grandkids skipping their grandmother’s funeral, and my dad is super laidback.

If your dad is ambivalent on this, I may ask your kids if they are comfortable going or do they want to stay home. I would ask, at least any that are able stay home alone or at school while you and husband attend funeral. 

Both my grandmothers had Alzheimer’s and had not known me or been able to communicate for years, so I can see a child or teen not wanting to attend the funeral of someone they didnt see regularly or recently , even when it is a close relative. (Your feelings trump theirs, but it seems like you don’t want them to attend due to the pandemic .) one of my kids would very hesitant to be around elderly relatives without testing and quarantine first, so that is why I say ask the kids if neither your father nor you feel strongly about your kids attending.

 

 

 

 

[itsheresomewhere]

We attended a funeral in August.  Only DD and I went.  We had up to thirty people ( it was mostly immediate family) well spread out in a large church and mandatory masks. We also did a Facebook live for all who could not attend.  My family knew we would leave if I didn’t feel it was safe for us.  There was a viewing/visitation beforehand but DD and I didn’t attend. Most of our family who attended are elderly or high risk, they decided that they knew the risks and were ok taking them. 
 

If your kids want to attend in person and they were close to their grandmother, I would let them.  Talk to them and see what they feel and make a decision together. 

[Storygirl]

DD18 just called. She got her test and should know her results tomorrow.

We do have rapid testing in my town, so I could take anyone from my household to get a test before we go.

I broached the idea of staying home with the kids, and they do want to go to the funeral. DH and I will make the final decisions, though.

My dad and siblings want my kids to be there and would discount any risk as being insignificant (they are convinced that Covid is no worse than a cold, especially now that my brother just got over a very mild case). My brother would be the only one to criticize outwardly any decision we make that he doesn't agree with, but we are all used to him being curmudgeonly and can ignore him.

I agree that I am also a possible weak link for spreading the virus. I originally told my family that I would not attend visitation if they had one, but would just show up for the funeral. My plan right now, though, is to go to the funeral home early to help set up the photos and flowers (the funeral home asks family to do this), so that my sister doesn't have to do it on her own. Then I will leave for the visitation hours and come back before the funeral. I have not lived in my hometown for 30 years and don't need to greet anyone from there, anyway. I really hope that very few people end up coming, but my Dad and siblings do know a lot of people who might want to pay their respects.

As much as I desire to protect my dad, he does not do much to protect himself. He still works, does his grocery shopping normally, meets with various people in person, goes out to eat, etc. I have to let that be his responsibility to carry, because I can't change it. I've only seen him three times since... I think Thanksgiving. Once on Labor Day (people thought we were weird that day, because we arrived late and left early, didn't eat, and kept our masks on, even though it was an outdoor picnic), and twice now during the weeks that Mom was declining.

So, I will do my best to protect Dad, but I also agree that he is putting himself at risk daily anyway, and he would want my kids to be there. I think that we will probably figure out ways for them to attend the funeral but reduce the risk as much as we are able.

We've decided to keep them home from school. I am a rule follower, so I dislike doing it, but family and health does outweigh school record-keeping issues.

[Pen]

I am very sorry for your loss.

 

I saw your decision. 

I would probably lean the other way.  

It does not sound like your nuclear family will be weaker links than the others in extended family and friends group. 

 

iirc your children have some special needs where I expect in person school is especially good for them.  I would let them continue to attend school using masks etc to try to reduce exposure. 

 

If they have to quarantine make some arrangements similar to what you would do for college student for remote funeral attendance. (I assume they are able to be home while you are there.)

 

[Storygirl]

Yes, we do have to weigh the kids' educational needs. DS16, in particular, needs extra help and benefits from being in class in person. I'll email his teachers to see what he can work on at home. Fortunately, we are toward the beginning of a quarter, so they have time to catch up.

It's definitely not ideal, but the teachers are willing to work through it with us, which is nice.

[G5052]

I'm sorry that you lost your mother and are having to make these tough decisions. I agree with others that you have to look at this as a big picture decision, not just what you would do in pre-COVID days.

We went to a funeral last week, figuring that they were not going to be careful. They were not. My younger one and I both have asthma. We went masked to the visitation only and then left at the same time as a family friend was headed out because they also were uncomfortable. None of the family members of the deceased were masked at all. My oldest stayed for the service and then was a pall bearer, masked the whole time. He said the family remained unmasked the entire time. He left then and did not go to the reception. Friends who went to the reception said that nearly everyone who went took off their masks and didn't put them back on. My friends said they were one of the few who put their masks back on after eating. We of course pray that it doesn't become a spreader event, but people will do what they will.

I think being careful is both wise and considerate of others.  

 

[heartlikealion]

I just lost my mom, too (Nov. 1). Sorry to hear of your loss. We kept visitation short and put up signs at the church saying “masks required (ask if you need one)” and had disposable ones available plus the church’s hand sanitizer. Our visitation was in the actual church so just one building. That particular church does not enforce masks but we were in agreement to require it and made our own signs. Choir did not have to wear them while in the choir area. Not a lot of people attended. It went smoothly. 

in your case, you could try putting up a sign. But, I wouldn’t fret about requiring the kids to miss school. I stayed longer and dh brought the kids to town for just one day. We are a 3.5 hr drive. He drove down Tuesday night for the Wed funeral and they returned to class Thursday. Dd didn’t attend but Ds did. They sat in the family reserved pew near my sister but all wore masks. Obviously it will be harder to enforce if family is not going to but the signs may help. 

[TravelingChris]

I can't advice about other logistics but get N95 or Kn95 that fit well and also a good cloth mask like HappyMadk or the ones that Sneezyone sells - double cloth w insertable filters. I wear double good masks in higher risk places.

[TravelingChris]

9 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Sneezyone sells masks???  Where?

On ebay.  Message her.  They are very nice

[Alicia64]

((((I'm so sorry for your loss.))))

[Storygirl]

Thank you everyone. Today would have been Mom's birthday. And the cremation is also today. On the day that her body entered the world, her body leaves the world. Today is a harder day for me than the day that she died, but I'm doing okay. Yesterday, my sister and I created the photo boards for her funeral, and going through pictures was a nice time of remembering Mom, instead of it being sad.

[Storygirl]

@heartlikealion I am so sorry that you have lost your mother, too. I know that she was ill for a long time. May you be comforted by the fact that she is no longer suffering and is at peace.

[PeterPan]

I'm so sorry to hear of your mother's passing.

I'm assuming you've already decided on the school thing, but no I would not pull them. Let them go to school. Everyone coming to that funeral has already been exposed just as much as your kids. Everyone there is an adult making choices. 

As far as you at the funeral, I think ask the funeral director how you can set it up so that you stay comfortable. Then could put you behind a rope and you can stand back. There are ways. 

Fwiw, we didn't do a receiving line at the funerals for either my MIL or FIL. That's the real issue, the line. The family spread around the room with pods of chairs and people coming would mingle around the room to visit everyone. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by PeterPan

[Storygirl]

One of the reasons that we decided to keep them home is to avoid having one of them identified as a close contact to any classmates who might become positive this week. If that were to happen, it would complicate our decisions mightily. DS16 had three students in his classes end up positive within the last week and a half (two from band and one from English). He was not identified as a close contact in any of the cases, but it could happen at any time.

The teachers have been sending us things for them to work on, so they won't be too behind when they go back.

We're still waiting on DD18's test results. She got the test on Monday and was meant to get the results in about 24 hours, but it's been two days now. Hopefully, she will find out tomorrow; otherwise, we will need for her to watch the funeral virtually on Friday. If it's negative, she is at the end of her quarantine time and will be allowed to leave the dorm.

[Scarlett]

13 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I just lost my mom, too (Nov. 1). Sorry to hear of your loss. We kept visitation short and put up signs at the church saying “masks required (ask if you need one)” and had disposable ones available plus the church’s hand sanitizer. Our visitation was in the actual church so just one building. That particular church does not enforce masks but we were in agreement to require it and made our own signs. Choir did not have to wear them while in the choir area. Not a lot of people attended. It went smoothly. 

in your case, you could try putting up a sign. But, I wouldn’t fret about requiring the kids to miss school. I stayed longer and dh brought the kids to town for just one day. We are a 3.5 hr drive. He drove down Tuesday night for the Wed funeral and they returned to class Thursday. Dd didn’t attend but Ds did. They sat in the family reserved pew near my sister but all wore masks. Obviously it will be harder to enforce if family is not going to but the signs may help. 

I did not know you lost your mom.  I am so so sorry.