So any comments on the Stella Immanuel Video?

[KidsHappen]

Original link already removed. Try this one instead: https://www.brighteon.com/717a7b06-3194-4ec2-84e4-c3f449d71689  

 

My dd posted it at 11:00 last night and in three hours it had 1.2 million hits and 3200 comments before it was taken down. My hubby posted it again about half an hour ago so we will see how long it lasts this time. I read that it has bad over 13 million views so far but the only thing I have heard anyone talking about is her other crazy ideas and not if this protocol actually works.

Edited July 28, 2020 by KidsHappen
Edited to change link to video.

[Katy]

Can you summarize what this is?

[KidsHappen]

Well, that was quick. It was a video of a Dr. saying that she is having success treating covid patients with Hydrochloroquine, zinc and z-max. She is saying that she has treated over 350 patients with this protocol, many with with co-morbid conditions, and all patients have recovered without a single death. I will try to find another link.

[cjzimmer1]

Here's the one I've got that for the moment is still active.

 

[bibiche]

Clearly she's being silenced by the Deep State. It's as if no one wants to know the truth about alien DNA being used in medicine and how demon sperm is responsible for so many gynecological issues!

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/report-texas-doctor-who-went-viral-with-unproven-covid-19-cure-believes-in-demon-sperm

[JustEm]

With what little I know about her I am not inclined to believe anything she says in that video.  

[Frances]

44 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

Original link already removed. Try this one instead: https://www.brighteon.com/717a7b06-3194-4ec2-84e4-c3f449d71689  

 

My dd posted it at 11:00 last night and in three hours it had 1.2 million hits and 3200 comments before it was taken down. My hubby posted it again about half an hour ago so we will see how long it lasts this time. I read that it has bad over 13 million views so far but the only thing I have heard anyone talking about is her other crazy ideas and not if this protocol actually works.

But wasn’t it taken down because it violates misinformation guidelines, not because of her generally crazy ideas? 

[Guest]

Honestly, at this point, I am not listening to any claims made by single doctors. At minimum, their test groups are often too small. At worst, some have been shown to be outright lies. There are plenty of major medical centers working with this stuff, both in and outpatient, who actually have enough patients to do a double blind study and compare treatment modalities. And more and more, we are getting information about things that do seem to work for at least some people that can then be tested and tried in a controlled setting and situation. At best, anecdotes from single doctors should be shared inside the medical community to drive research-not on Youtube and Facebook and Twitter. 

 

In my area, they are absolutely looking for people to sign up for such studies at all levels, from preventatives to early treatments to vaccines. I can't imagine that every other city with a medical school/research center isn't doing similar studies.

 

 

[KidsHappen]

16 minutes ago, bibiche said:

Clearly she's being silenced by the Deep State. It's as if no one wants to know the truth about alien DNA being used in medicine and how demon sperm is responsible for so many gynecological issues!

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/report-texas-doctor-who-went-viral-with-unproven-covid-19-cure-believes-in-demon-sperm

I am well aware of her other crazy ideas. It is the only thing I have seen anybody address. I have yet to see a single person address if the protocol actually works. I have seen several other doctors say basically the same thing only to also be censored without anyone addressing if this has been tested, if it works, if not why not, etc. 

[KidsHappen]

9 minutes ago, Frances said:

But wasn’t it taken down because it violates misinformation guidelines, not because of her generally crazy ideas? 

That's just it. How do we know that it is misinformation? The protocol itself did not seem so radical that it warranted removal. And if all misinformation was removed from the internet, there would be very little left.

[PrincessMommy]

18 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

With what little I know about her I am not inclined to believe anything she says in that video.  

please tell us what you know.  

My SIL posted it on FB too and has been dismayed that it was removed from FB and YT... she's (SIL) also been flagged by FB.  She's smart and does deep dives on these types of issues...but rarely posts anything on FB.  Needless to say she's upset and confused.  

 

[PrincessMommy]

1 minute ago, KidsHappen said:

That's just it. How do we know that it is misinformation? The protocol itself did not seem so radical that it warranted removal. And if all misinformation was removed from the internet, there would be very little left.

Seriously!!  What about all the fad diets on YT or crazy stuff about politics... Why isnt that being taken down?

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by PrincessMommy

[Frances]

3 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

That's just it. How do we know that it is misinformation? The protocol itself did not seem so radical that it warranted removal. And if all misinformation was removed from the internet, there would be very little left.

Have you read the guidelines for removal? It’s not misinformation generally. There are specific guidelines related to Covid-19 due to the risks of serious harm resulting from spreading misinformation. 

[KidsHappen]

5 minutes ago, Frances said:

Have you read the guidelines for removal? It’s not misinformation generally. There are specific guidelines related to Covid-19 due to the risks of serious harm resulting from spreading misinformation. 

Actually no I can not find the specific guidelines. Would you mind posting a link?

[Katy]

Of course it's misinformation. There's no way a woman with her mental health history is actively treating critically ill patients, let alone that many. If the treatment cures 0% more people than would otherwise die but it gives some of the survivors life-threatening and permanent heart damage it isn't worth it. It isn't harmless.  Doctors vow to first do no harm.

Here's the FDA page on hydroxychloroquine. https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or

No one WANTS patients to die.  Especially not from side effects from ineffective treatments.  I don't understand the conspiracy theories about this.

[TCB]

I don’t know anything about that Dr but watched the video. I think the reason it is taken down is that so far several studies have shown it to not be effective. I wish they wouldn’t take these things down, although there are plenty of places to see it still eg Breitbart, because it just adds to the paranoia. I did not find her speech easy to follow and therefore not really greatly convincing. What was the deal with the previous study and hiccups?

The organizer, ? Simone Gold, has said things that downright contradict themselves like, Americans have no need to be worried at all about Covid 19, but also masks don’t work because it is a virus that needs to be dealt with using full on hazmat gear in a lab. Somehow those 2 things don’t co-exist easily to me.

If it is so convincingly working then why are they not writing it up, showing their data fully etc? How many patients is she really seeing, have they all had tests confirming diagnosis etc? We know many people recover fairly uneventfully so is a sample size of 350 over about 5 months enough to draw conclusions from? I’m not completely unconvinced that it might be helpful in early disease but wrap it all up with a bunch of crazy stuff and the warning bells start ringing.

The pediatrician said very little. The Dr from ? Bakersfield sounded very abashed and unconvincing. I listened to a few questions but they were all from people who were bought into it. Did anyone hear a decent question from someone who wasn’t already a fan? I did not listen to the whole thing.

[TCB]

It sounds from the posts above, that Dr Immanuel is not the most reliable of witnesses so if you have such a sure fire thing why would you not be able to find someone more convincing. Many red flags there.

ETA just read she is licensed as a pediatrician in Texas. Is she treating children or is she treating adults. These videos seem to have people making claims about something unrelated to their fields of expertise, and seem to lack people with expertise in the areas they are discussing.

Edited July 28, 2020 by TCB

[PrincessMommy]

These are the kind of discussions we need to have about this information.  Not just making it disappear.  It makes it look like the elites are telling people what to believe and as someone said up-thread - it leads to conspiracy theories.  We really don't need more of that.

 

[KidsHappen]

11 minutes ago, TCB said:

 I wish they wouldn’t take these things down, although there are plenty of places to see it still eg Breitbart, because it just adds to the paranoia.

This is one of my main issues. If instead of removing information if was simply rebutted with factual scientific information, that would be so much more effective. Censoring just drives conspiracy theories and is counterproductive. 

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, bibiche said:

Clearly she's being silenced by the Deep State. It's as if no one wants to know the truth about alien DNA being used in medicine and how demon sperm is responsible for so many gynecological issues!

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/report-texas-doctor-who-went-viral-with-unproven-covid-19-cure-believes-in-demon-sperm

And the demon sperm comes from dreaming, not from um, relations with demons while one is awake. 

[KidsHappen]

18 minutes ago, Katy said:

Of course it's misinformation. There's no way a woman with her mental health history is actively treating critically ill patients, let alone that many. If the treatment cures 0% more people than would otherwise die but it gives some of the survivors life-threatening and permanent heart damage it isn't worth it. It isn't harmless.  Doctors vow to first do no harm.

Here's the FDA page on hydroxychloroquine. https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or

No one WANTS patients to die.  Especially not from side effects from ineffective treatments.  I don't understand the conspiracy theories about this.

I am not familiar with her mental health history. Would you care to elaborate on that? Are you saying that she is straight up lying and that she is not actively treating patients at all? Exactly what condition would cause this? 

[TCB]

3 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

I am not familiar with her mental health history. Would you care to elaborate on that? Are you saying that she is straight up lying and that she is not actively treating patients at all? Exactly what condition would cause this? 

I don’t know if she is lying but why would a pediatrician be treating so many adults? Maybe this does happen in some places but I’m not familiar with it.

[KidsHappen]

2 minutes ago, TCB said:

I don’t know if she is lying but why would a pediatrician be treating so many adults? Maybe this does happen in some places but I’m not familiar with it.

She said that she was a primary care physician. 

[Spy Car]

Just now, KidsHappen said:

She said that she was a primary care physician. 

She also says the medical establishment is using "vaccines" made from space-alien DNA to prevent people from becoming religious.

This woman is bat-shit crazy.

Bill

[YaelAldrich]

3 minutes ago, TCB said:

I don’t know if she is lying but why would a pediatrician be treating so many adults? Maybe this does happen in some places but I’m not familiar with it.

From what I have read from another source, she runs a urgent health clinic in TX (which my the way, why does Houston (maybe elsewhere in TX) have so many Urgent care clinics run by doctors?!?!  That struck me as super weird when I visited relatives there.  Ours tend to be either run by hospital chains or large chains of urgent care companies) and has no privileges at any hospital in her area.  I guess she could treat anybody with symptoms and claim she cured them.  They may have had a cold or even nothing but she cured them.

BTW, the original MD, Dr Zelenko, who touted this treatment protocol was in the hospital last week having emergency heart surgery (he also seems to have some sort of cancer).  Maybe a reaction to his protocol if he continued to treat himself with it?

[Wheres Toto]

57 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

I am well aware of her other crazy ideas. It is the only thing I have seen anybody address. I have yet to see a single person address if the protocol actually works. I have seen several other doctors say basically the same thing only to also be censored without anyone addressing if this has been tested, if it works, if not why not, etc. 

What clinical trials have been conducted haven't shown any statistically significant benefit.   Many of them had issues, but there are also safety concerns with the protocol that makes doctors reluctant to pursue it without a clear benefit.    This is being studied in various situations, with various concurrent treatments and with various levels of sickness.  It's not showing a significant benefit. 

The conspiracy theories around it seem to be motivated by powerful people who purchased large quantities of the medication and stock in certain companies and are now going to be stuck with it. 

[TCB]

14 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

She said that she was a primary care physician. 

Oh yes now I remember her saying that. I guess pediatricians can also treat adults. I just don’t understand why, if your treatment is so good, and you’re trying to convince us of it, you would choose as your ambassador someone with such strange additional beliefs?

 

ETA I read on the BBC that there are currently 200 studies of HCQ going on.

Edited July 28, 2020 by TCB

[Frances]

57 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

Actually no I can not find the specific guidelines. Would you mind posting a link?

I’m not sure what sites your family is posting at, but here’s the guidelines for You Tube.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9891785?hl=en

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Frances

[KidsHappen]

16 minutes ago, Frances said:

I’m not sure what sites your family is posting at, but here’s the guidelines for You Tube.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9891785?hl=en

 

They were posted on FB. That was where I was looking for the guidelines.

[Frances]

52 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

These are the kind of discussions we need to have about this information.  Not just making it disappear.  It makes it look like the elites are telling people what to believe and as someone said up-thread - it leads to conspiracy theories.  We really don't need more of that.

 

And you think lay people discussing it on Facebook, YouTube, etc is productive how? I’m not sure who you define as elite, but there are actual accepted methods for determining the efficacy of treatments. Since the majority of people involved in such research are usually highly educated, I guess they might qualify as elite. I don’t see how random people posting videos and discussing it on the internet adds anything to the process. 

The policies were developed because people’s lives, health, and livelihoods are at stake. But I’m sure there are still lots of avenues available for those who desire to spread misinformation and discuss things about which they know little to nothing.

[chiguirre]

36 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

From what I have read from another source, she runs a urgent health clinic in TX (which my the way, why does Houston (maybe elsewhere in TX) have so many Urgent care clinics run by doctors?!?!  That struck me as super weird when I visited relatives there. 

It's because we have a huge uninsured population and the urgent cares are generally pretty affordable. There's one in my area that puts up yard signs advertising $25 visits.

[bibiche]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

And the demon sperm comes from dreaming, not from um, relations with demons while one is awake. 

Well where’s the fun in that?!

[Frances]

52 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

What clinical trials have been conducted haven't shown any statistically significant benefit.   Many of them had issues, but there are also safety concerns with the protocol that makes doctors reluctant to pursue it without a clear benefit.    This is being studied in various situations, with various concurrent treatments and with various levels of sickness.  It's not showing a significant benefit. 

The conspiracy theories around it seem to be motivated by powerful people who purchased large quantities of the medication and stock in certain companies and are now going to be stuck with it. 

This. Maybe people should be a little more worried about the “elites” who are using them as misinformation and conspiracy pawns and less worried about those trying to ensure the most accurate scientific information regarding the virus is disseminated.

[Corraleno]

The address she lists for her "primary medical practice" is her church, Firepower Ministry, not a medical building, and her secondary practice is a clinic in a strip mall. She is not associated with any hospital or other medical practice in Texas.

 In addition to believing that demons have sex with humans and deposit illness-causing sperm, she also believes:

Human witches also have sex with people in their sleep by using astral projection.

Scientists have found "the gene in your mind that makes you religious, so they can vaccinate against it."

Pokemon, Harry Potter,  Disney shows, and various toys are part of an Illuminati plot to draw children into practicing witchcraft. 

 "Children need to be whipped." 

“There are people that are ruling this nation that are not even human,” Immanuel said in her 2015 Illuminati sermon, before launching into a conversation she had with a “reptilian spirit” she described as “half-human, half-ET.”

(Considering that this nutcase's video was retweeted by the President of the United States, she may not be wrong about that last one....)

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Corraleno

[maize]

14 minutes ago, square_25 said:

You're only saying that because the Deep State and the elites and the globalists and possibly the aliens got to you. 

Definitely the aliens. And demons.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If the  only data you can get on a treatment is from mentally ill people who don't have the qualifications / capability to run actual studies for said treatments, then something is wrong.  Now as it happens, there are other studies and articles and spokesdoctors about hcq.   I haven't totally discounted it as a possible treatment but so far studies haven't born it out as the miracle cure that all those touting it seem to think that it is.  

(And I especially am suspicious when those touting hcq are pairing it with an obvious agenda to discount other methods of viral prevention like masks, social distancing, other medicines and treatments all in the name of touting this one simple inexpensive "cure" so that we can get back to life as we want it to be.)  In my opinion, it can be one tool in the medical toolbox IF doctors find that it helps specific patients with specific histories and specific symptoms and at a specific point of infection. 

[YaelAldrich]

53 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

It's because we have a huge uninsured population and the urgent cares are generally pretty affordable. There's one in my area that puts up yard signs advertising $25 visits.

Hunh.  That is what I thought.  That's kinda sad; maybe people can then afford to be treated more often then?

[TravelingChris]

I am a science minded person but I have become totally fed up with both lots of double blind 'studies'  and what is done with them.  

First let me address Hydroxychloroquine--- I know it is absolutely no preventative because a number of lupus patients that I am on a forum with on facebook have gotten COVID while on on it.  However, none of them needed hospitalization and since autoimmune people are at greater risk, this gives me hope that if I get it, it may be less severe than it would have been otherwise.  A second point is what my totally rational rheumatologist told me to do if I get COVID last week- stop my biologic for one dose and another medicine I take.  I am not supposed to stop my hydroxychloroquine nor my low dose of steroid.

Now two stories why I am highly skeptical about double blind studies.  First of all, the joke of a study on opioids that they did in Atlanta on osteoarthritis people that was then widely used to take away opioids from people who have all sorts of very painful chronic conditions that aren't osteoarthritis.  All the anti-pain med idiots are also always saying why don't you use NSAIDS?  Because so many people get very harmful side effects after using NSAIDS for chronic conditions for many years.  I first developed esophageal spasms which feel like heart attacks and the treatment is nitroglycerin as it is for angina.  Many others develop kidney issues.  And then there is the ten percert of people who need to be on blood thinners who can't take NSAIDS>    The study was poorly done to begin with because pain medication is not like antibiotics--- it is very personal and we haven't yet figured out how to tell who will need more meds and who will need less without a history of them taking the meds. So giving everyone the same dose versus a placebo is going to fail.  Because a good number of people will either need a larger dose to get less pain or opioids may not affect them in their pain at all.  That doesn't mean that for those whom it does work it is a bad medicine.  It actually is a lot safer than either NSAIDS or Tylenol and certainly then the sterioids I am often offered for pain ( as long as you do not have an addictive personality- which I do not and most people do not).    

The second issue with normal double blind is that you can never make equal groups and what you have no clue about is how genetics that you aren't even looking at are playing out.  Also the sample groups are way too small in many circumstances just because they cannot be bigger.  Just try finding an autoimmune patient who has had the disease for years and doesn't have any other autoimmune disease (yes, a number of people haven't had it identified but when they go to a new doctor or learn about a new test that would show they have another one- it appears).  The Type 2 diabetics often have lots of comorbidities.   Etc,. etc. etc.   And there are all sorts of stat tricks they use to try to diminish the effects but this is just part of the reason that medicine is a practice and not a hard science.

[catz]

3 hours ago, KidsHappen said:

I am well aware of her other crazy ideas. It is the only thing I have seen anybody address. I have yet to see a single person address if the protocol actually works. I have seen several other doctors say basically the same thing only to also be censored without anyone addressing if this has been tested, if it works, if not why not, etc. 

If we knew it worked, there would likely be multiple double blind deeply peer reviewed studies out by now at reliable sources to confirm.  Preferably with more than tiny samples.   Maybe these drugs need more study under certain conditions but there isn't reliable data at this point.  And this special doctor is using the word CURE.  If you give a low dosage of a drug to 250 asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic people you're likely to see the same result in a month as if you didn't give them anything.  She didn't run a study or release data  on what she did.  She's a pediatrician. Was she giving this drug to children?

 

I've seen more promising reliable info out now about remdesivir/steroid protocol.  

Edited July 28, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[PrincessMommy]

59 minutes ago, Frances said:

And you think lay people discussing it on Facebook, YouTube, etc is productive how? I’m not sure who you define as elite, but there are actual accepted methods for determining the efficacy of treatments. Since the majority of people involved in such research are usually highly educated, I guess they might qualify as elite. I don’t see how random people posting videos and discussing it on the internet adds anything to the process. 

The policies were developed because people’s lives, health, and livelihoods are at stake. But I’m sure there are still lots of avenues available for those who desire to spread misinformation and discuss things about which they know little to nothing.

 

I think it does help to have conversations on FB and YT (well...FB more than YT).  Will everyone listen?  of course not. There's several good conversations I saw that came out of the Plamdemic video.  One was Dr. Mike on YT and another was a ER doctor privately rebutting people on FB with a point by point explanation with footnotes as to why is was so out there.  There was also a good conversation here IIRC.  

Yes, there are actual methods for doing studies.. .and that is something we *have* to bring up.  Peer reviews blind studies, etc. etc. Anecdotal is good for only so much.  It can perhaps point us in a new direction but it isn't good enough as proof.   But, this is how we can educate the people.   We shouldn't call them a bunch of yahoos with tinfoil hats and walk away.  

[catz]

Just as an aside, the University  of MN released a study on the need for hospitalization and using hydroxychloroquine for covid.  I know local health care workers that were excited about this study and protocol when it first came up and were happy to volunteer.   "The trial results, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, determined that hydroxychloroquine did not decrease the severity of COVID-19 symptoms over 14 days any better than a placebo."

 https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/early-treatment-mild-covid-19-university-minnesota-trial-shows-hydroxychloroquine-has-no

Edited July 28, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, TCB said:

I don’t know anything about that Dr but watched the video. I think the reason it is taken down is that so far several studies have shown it to not be effective. I wish they wouldn’t take these things down, although there are plenty of places to see it still eg Breitbart, because it just adds to the paranoia. I did not find her speech easy to follow and therefore not really greatly convincing. What was the deal with the previous study and hiccups?

The organizer, ? Simone Gold, has said things that downright contradict themselves like, Americans have no need to be worried at all about Covid 19, but also masks don’t work because it is a virus that needs to be dealt with using full on hazmat gear in a lab. Somehow those 2 things don’t co-exist easily to me.

If it is so convincingly working then why are they not writing it up, showing their data fully etc? How many patients is she really seeing, have they all had tests confirming diagnosis etc? We know many people recover fairly uneventfully so is a sample size of 350 over about 5 months enough to draw conclusions from? I’m not completely unconvinced that it might be helpful in early disease but wrap it all up with a bunch of crazy stuff and the warning bells start ringing.

The pediatrician said very little. The Dr from ? Bakersfield sounded very abashed and unconvincing. I listened to a few questions but they were all from people who were bought into it. Did anyone hear a decent question from someone who wasn’t already a fan? I did not listen to the whole thing.

The hospital that Dr Simone Gold says she works for denied she exists on the role.  I was looking into it because the Dr Zev dude posted her stuff.  It also doesn’t read at all like a professional medical document and more like a political diatribe to be honest.

[Ausmumof3]

Apparently the issue with anecdotes relating to the HCQ according to the doctors I’ve been listening to is that the claim is it works only in early stages.  However most people who get it don’t have severe consequences anyway so you can’t really go off an anecdote that “I took it and I didn’t get really sick”.  You need large scale trials to see if statistically people taking it get less sick.  Everyone I’ve seen recommending the HCQ so far seems to be against random control trials for one reason or another which makes me wary of their evidence.  

[Lucy the Valiant]

I thought the hcq worked as an ionophore to increase the body's ability to receive zinc? And zinc is the (anecdotally, but in many places both within and outside of the USA) "bullet" that shoots the virus from the hcq "gun"? 

(Hydroxychloroquine is on the list of medications safe for nursing moms to take. That's a pretty short list. I am not a scientist, but - I'm very interested in this and have been reading like crazy. The NIH has also been investigating hcq's zinc assisting abilities in their cancer treatment research, for well over a decade.)

I'm very interested to learn more.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Lucy the Valiant

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, KidsHappen said:

This is one of my main issues. If instead of removing information if was simply rebutted with factual scientific information, that would be so much more effective. Censoring just drives conspiracy theories and is counterproductive. 

I thought this at the beginning and I still somewhat think that.  But the trouble is it seems many people will simply watch the video and accept without taking the time to wade through actual factual scientific information.  

I’m also hearing doctors etc becoming increasingly frustrated after having the same conversation day in day out about the latest miracle cure. 
 

and lastly I think when people think there’s an easy fix they become much more careless about masks and distance.

[Lucy the Valiant]

5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

That's the claim. No one really knows for sure. 

 

But if several doctors are saying it works, and the rest of the world is struggling with lock-downs and should we / shouldn't we open schools, and huge looming recession, and - WORST of all - enormous loss of life . . . doesn't it make sense to at least try? An extremely inexpensive, extremely safe medication? At least for the people who want to try it? 

I have really been studying this, and will continue to do so. That's the question I keep running into, though. 

 

 

(Editing to add: 100% understand that it's not a cure, and does very little for those already in the ICU.)

(Editing again to add: I also understand that quercetin, available over the counter, can do - less efficiently and more expensively - a similar thing with the zinc.)

Edited July 28, 2020 by Lucy the Valiant

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

I thought the hcq worked as an ionophore to increase the body's ability to receive zinc? And zinc is the (anecdotally, but in many places both within and outside of the USA) "bullet" that shoots the virus from the hcq "gun"? 

(Hydroxychloroquine is on the list of medications safe for nursing moms to take. That's a pretty short list. I am not a scientist, but - I'm very interested in this and have been reading like crazy. The NIH has also been investigating hcq's zinc assisting abilities in their cancer treatment research, for well over a decade.)

I'm very interested to learn more.

Yes and this seems to be one issue with the studies there doesn’t seem to be a single zinc with HCQ versus no treatment study done.  Theres one with HCQ plus zinc and one with HCQ plus something else (azithromycin I think but don’t quote me) but no true control group.

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

 

But if several doctors are saying it works, and the rest of the world is struggling with lock-downs and should we / shouldn't we open schools, and huge looming recession, and - WORST of all - enormous loss of life . . . doesn't it make sense to at least try? An extremely inexpensive, extremely safe medication? At least for the people who want to try it? 

I have really been studying this, and will continue to do so. That's the question I keep running into, though. 

 

 

(Editing to add: 100% understand that it's not a cure, and does very little for those already in the ICU.)

The issue is with safe I think.  Something that’s safe in general use may not be safe in a virus that causes heart damage when the drug is linked to a very small number of heart problems as well.  They might compound each other.  You need to know that the drug is not increasing harm.  If you were only giving it to the small number of already extremely ill cases it’s less significant but because it seems to work prophylactically you have to prescribe it over vast numbers of the population if there’s a slight statistical risk then your multiplying the chance that someone experiences it.

its kind of like the vaccine trials.  We now know the vaccine is safe in a small number of people but we don’t know yet how it acts once exposed to the virus and we don’t know if there might be a statistically small number of bad things that happen that become a problem when administered over the whole population.

all of this is why we really really need good reliable studies.

[Corraleno]

3 hours ago, KidsHappen said:

This is one of my main issues. If instead of removing information if was simply rebutted with factual scientific information, that would be so much more effective. Censoring just drives conspiracy theories and is counterproductive. 

How do you factually rebut someone who provides no evidence? A doctor who believes that disease is caused by witches and demons and claims to have conversations with "reptilian spirits" also claims to have treated 350 patients with HCQ, all of whom were cured within 24 hours. Where is her proof of that? Where did she treat these patients? The address she lists as her primary medical practice address is a church. Did she treat them at the strip mall clinic she lists as her secondary address? What symptoms did they have? Were they confirmed with Covid? What kind of followup did she do to know they were all cured in 24 hours if she is not their primary care doc and she has no hospital privileges in the state of Texas? 

The fact that people even think this kind of nonsense deserves "refutation" scares the hell out of me. Why would even the most ardent proponent of HCQ cite the claims of a random nutcase who believes demon sperm causes disease and alien DNA is being injected into humans via vaccines??? There are dozens and dozens of studies, even the flawed studies are 1000% more believable than that crazy person.

[Corraleno]

2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

There are so many HCQ studies, I'm really losing track. Was there not a study out of Minnesota with zinc? Or is that one comparing only with the antibiotic? 

The U of MN study did look at HCQ + zinc and found that it did not have any ore benefit than HCQ alone (which also had no benefit).