wuhan - coronavirus

[Ausmumof3]

Prep underway for rolling out a vaccine.  Provided vaccine is safe etc seems sensible to get everything in place to go as soon as it’s ready.

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Prep underway for rolling out a vaccine.  Provided vaccine is safe etc seems sensible to get everything in place to go as soon as it’s ready.

That does seem prudent, for sure.

[Corraleno]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Prep underway for rolling out a vaccine.  Provided vaccine is safe etc seems sensible to get everything in place to go as soon as it’s ready.

I'm sure it's purely coincidental that states are being told to be ready to start vaccinating people two days before the election....

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I'm sure it's purely coincidental that states are being told to be ready to start vaccinating people two days before the election....

I really hope no one pushes an unsafe vaccine based on an election date.  Hopefully your medical people have too much integrity.

[Ausmumof3]

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/perth-toddler-in-covid-hotel-quarantine-receives-gift-from-nearby-tradies-c-1289777.amp?__twitter_impression=true
 

just a feel good story 

[Pen]

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I really hope no one pushes an unsafe vaccine based on an election date.  Hopefully your medical people have too much integrity.

 

I am cynical about the pharmaceutical industry, and the fraudulent Surgisphere etc Lancet Study didn’t help my confidence.  But imo we very much do need a good vaccine ASAP. 

 

 I hope lots of people will quickly sign up for the phase 3  USA trials so as to get substantial knowledge as quickly as possible.  

 

No matter how it’s done, people will worry about the safety, and the politics.   And in various directions. 

.

Afaik Normally vaccines take 10-15 years.  Unusually fast prior vaccine for mumps took 4 years. 

Whether it’s moving ahead for November 1 or January 30, or even June 30,  it’s still “warp speed” for a modern day vaccine.  And it could wait 6 months or a year and still be realized to be unsafe with larger populations/ longer time. But so far the ones I have been following are actually looking quite good. 

 

[Corraleno]

7 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I really hope no one pushes an unsafe vaccine based on an election date.  Hopefully your medical people have too much integrity.

Well the CDC already caved to political pressure to loosen the recommendations for opening schools, and after months of presidential rants that we're testing too much and it's making him look bad, CDC issued new recommendations that asymptomatic people should not get tested even if they have known exposure. The most influential "medical" person on the Covid Task Force right now is a radiology professor from the Hoover Institute with no background whatsoever in virology, epidemiology, or public health, who is super gung ho on reopening everything ASAP. (If you're wondering why he was invited to join the Task Force, it's because he was doing lots of interviews on Fox News, saying exactly what the president wanted to hear.) So I have zero confidence in the CDC/FDA to resist the pressure to release a vaccine by Election Day, ready or not.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Corraleno

[Pen]

4 hours ago, square_25 said:

Have there been more HCQ studies? 

 

Idk.

 

[Pen]

 

16 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

November 1 was likely just chosen as a date that is earlier enough that they feel the vaccine won't be ready before then but that it will likely be available after that date. In that case, at least the facilities will be ready.

 

I think Moderna, Pfizer, and AstraZeneca have made some changes in what they say from time to time as the situation develops, but at least at some points each indicated  that they expect they will start having vaccine ready for some groups this autumn, maybe for HCW as early as October. It makes logical sense to work on all the very complex infrastructure for a more widescale deployment to be ready when the vaccines are. 

 

NYT:

“Pfizer recently said it was “on track” for seeking government review “as early as October 2020.” Moderna has said it expects to complete enrollment in its Phase 3 trial in September, but has not provided an estimate about when the vaccine might be ready for the public.”

 

 

 

 

 

[Pen]

One of the vaccines preliminary report:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2022483

 

[Pen]

Another preliminary vaccine report:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31604-4/fulltext

[Pen]

Afaik  @Ausmumof3

mRNA1237 is Moderna   - novel system of vaccination using messenger RNA? 

and

CHadOX  is the Oxford AstraZeneca traditionally based on incorporating target spike protein into adenovirus 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Pen

[TCB]

Unfortunately I can’t seem to link it but I just read an article on the BBC website saying the French Dr, who first came out with the positive findings on HCQ, is being investigated for ethics violations.

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Well the CDC already caved to political pressure to loosen the recommendations for opening schools, and after months of presidential rants that we're testing too much and it's making him look bad, CDC issued new recommendations that asymptomatic people should not get tested even if they have known exposure. The most influential "medical" person on the Covid Task Force right now is a radiology professor from the Hoover Institute with no background whatsoever in virology, epidemiology, or public health, who is super gung ho on reopening everything ASAP. (If you're wondering why he was invited to join the Task Force, it's because he was doing lots of interviews on Fox News, saying exactly what the president wanted to hear.) So I have zero confidence in the CDC/FDA to resist the pressure to release a vaccine by Election Day, ready or not.

Side question: did they go back to the original recommendations? I thought I read something that said they went back to recommending testing for asymptomatic people, but everyone on here keeps talking about the bolded, so now I'm wondering what the current status is. It was an article on a local FB site that promotes science and good public health policy, so I took it that the situation was remedied.

The flip-flop undermines confidence regardless, but I am truly confused as to the status of this directive now. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Side question: did they go back to the original recommendations? I thought I read something that said they went back to recommending testing for asymptomatic people, but everyone on here keeps talking about the bolded, so now I'm wondering what the current status is. It was an article on a local FB site that promotes science and good public health policy, so I took it that the situation was remedied.

The flip-flop undermines confidence regardless, but I am truly confused as to the status of this directive now. 

My understanding is (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) that Doctor Fauci weighed in to say that that was bad advice and the CDC backtracked a bit. . . as in tried to say that they hadn't really said what they said.

[Terabith]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2020/09/03/coronavirus-deer-mice-spread/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1rtsjtcAxO6t7jrFN73NYogo9fqm94Y9CqR4eWsr2NSaLAvcG-0nvGBKs

Covid can be transmitted by mice....

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

Side question: did they go back to the original recommendations? I thought I read something that said they went back to recommending testing for asymptomatic people, but everyone on here keeps talking about the bolded, so now I'm wondering what the current status is. It was an article on a local FB site that promotes science and good public health policy, so I took it that the situation was remedied.

The flip-flop undermines confidence regardless, but I am truly confused as to the status of this directive now. 

In response to the backlash, Redfield said that asymptomatic people who have been exposed "may consider" getting tested, but the CDC website still says that asymptomatic patients who have been exposed do not need to test unless they're vulnerable or their HCP recommends it. Previously they recommended testing if someone was exposed to a known positive. The change to the guidelines was hastily issued while Fauci was literally unconscious (in surgery). Fauci disagrees with them.

[lewelma]

On 9/2/2020 at 1:15 PM, square_25 said:

I do think the stay at home order was less restrictive from what I've seen. But I also think the attitude of the population matters just as much as the specifics of the order. 

During our lockdown, people took it *very* seriously.  Each household was a bubble and there was no mixing between bubbles that I ever heard about from anyone I knew. None. Every household was an island. Because no one was driving, pedestrians walked in the middle of the city streets rather than on the sidewalks so that they could remain distanced from everyone. When you walked on a path in the woods, people would stop and stand in the bushes to let you pass with 2 meter distance. Attitude of the population is key, not the strictness of lockdown orders themselves. 

[Ausmumof3]

4 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Idk.

 

India’s death rate still seems low compared to their number of cases.  It may be that they have less co morbidities.  

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

During our lockdown, people took it *very* seriously.  Each household was a bubble and there was no mixing between bubbles that I ever heard about from anyone I knew. None. Every household was an island. Because no one was driving, pedestrians walked in the middle of the city streets rather than on the sidewalks so that they could remain distanced from everyone. When you walked on a path in the woods, people would stop and stand in the bushes to let you pass with 2 meter distance. Attitude of the population is key, not the strictness of lockdown orders themselves. 

Yep.  Victoria had the strictest restrictions first time round as well and are the only ones with a second wave going on.  They do have more international travel etc and denser Urban population but you have to think some of it comes down to compliance as well.

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

In response to the backlash, Redfield said that asymptomatic people who have been exposed "may consider" getting tested, but the CDC website still says that asymptomatic patients who have been exposed do not need to test unless they're vulnerable or their HCP recommends it. Previously they recommended testing if someone was exposed to a known positive. The change to the guidelines was hastily issued while Fauci was literally unconscious (in surgery). Fauci disagrees with them.

Thanks for the definitive update. I remember the bolded with smoke coming out my ears, lol! Wrong on so many levels! 

[TCB]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

During our lockdown, people took it *very* seriously.  Each household was a bubble and there was no mixing between bubbles that I ever heard about from anyone I knew. None. Every household was an island. Because no one was driving, pedestrians walked in the middle of the city streets rather than on the sidewalks so that they could remain distanced from everyone. When you walked on a path in the woods, people would stop and stand in the bushes to let you pass with 2 meter distance. Attitude of the population is key, not the strictness of lockdown orders themselves. 

It’s very interesting to see the differences in different populations. One thing I’ve been telling myself, about how it is in the US, is that a proportion of the population here seems unable to understand/comprehend something that they do not have personal experience of, and take appropriate action. 
But people in New Zealand have had even less personal experience of it then us and yet still seem able to comprehend the situation and take appropriate action. I’m sure there are some there who haven’t, maybe there are lots there too, but it doesn’t appear to be as much of a theme there as it is here. I know for a fact that it is not as prevalent in the UK either, as I know many people there, but you could argue that it is because the UK has had more experience of it than us in many places.

[TCB]

4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

It's political in the US and not in other places. I would guess that's by far the largest difference. 

Yes you’re probably right. Which is crazy!

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

But people in New Zealand have had even less personal experience of it then us and yet still seem able to comprehend the situation and take appropriate action. 

During our lockdown, Every. Single. Homeless person was given a hotel room and taken care of.  The *entire* population went into lockdown.  And now people say, if we could take care of our homeless population then, why not now? There has to be a will, I guess.  

[Pen]

 

https://youtu.be/HU5FYiB_bIE

 

https://youtu.be/HU5FYiB_bIE

 

drBeen explains his perspective on controversial topics and guests who bring in politics 

[Ausmumof3]

Sorry being too lazy but if you watched the video do you know if dr Zelenko has released new data or updated his protocols at all?

[Pen]

33 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Sorry being too lazy but if you watched the video do you know if dr Zelenko has released new data or updated his protocols at all?

 

Iirc: 

He’s working with nebulized HCQ as prophylaxis which he says he thinks can greatly reduce amount needed, as delivery goes to airway. 

He said he isn’t normally using a mask himself, which I of course don’t agree with personally! (I am in favor of HCQ And Also In favor of masks!) But I am amazed that he has that much confidence in his protocol especially as a very much at risk person given having only one lung, other major health problems and being in Medicine—especially having been around a lot of CV19.  Apparently, he and his high risk patients on his HCQ protocol have not gotten sick with CV19 and I guess he’s using himself as a sort of guinea pig.

He says that Quercitin is not as good as HCQ, but he has added some Quercitin or EGCG protocol options for where HCQ cannot be obtained. Apparently he has had high risk patient who could only obtain Quercitin contract CV19– but says case was mild. 

I got down the part of protocol that was personally currently relevant to me. Idk if it changed since last time I did so. 

25mg elemental zinc, 1000 mg vitamin C, 500 mg Quercitin (or 400 mg EGCG) daily prophylaxis for low and moderate risk patients or high risk patients who can’t get HCQ ( he prefers HcQ for high risk patients if possible).

He said elsewhere that he had already started making sure his patients were optimized on vitamin D years ago.  So he seems to take vitamin D as a given without specifying it. 

 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Iirc: 

He’s working with nebulized HCQ as prophylaxis which he says he thinks can greatly reduce amount needed, as delivery goes to airway. 

He said he isn’t normally using a mask himself, which I of course don’t agree with personally! (I am in favor of HCQ And Also In favor of masks!) But I am amazed that he has that much confidence in his protocol especially as a very much at risk person given having only one lung, other major health problems and being in Medicine—especially having been around a lot of CV19.  Apparently, he and his high risk patients on his HCQ protocol have not gotten sick with CV19 and I guess he’s using himself as a sort of guinea pig.

He says that Quercitin is not as good as HCQ, but he has added some Quercitin or EGCG protocol options for where HCQ cannot be obtained. Apparently he has had high risk patient who could only obtain Quercitin contract CV19– but says case was mild. 

I got down the part of protocol that was personally currently relevant to me. Idk if it changed since last time I did so. 

25mg elemental zinc, 1000 mg vitamin C, 500 mg Quercitin (or 400 mg EGCG) daily prophylaxis for low and moderate risk patients or high risk patients who can’t get HCQ ( he prefers HcQ for high risk patients if possible).

He said elsewhere that he had already started making sure his patients were optimized on vitamin D years ago.  So he seems to take vitamin D as a given without specifying it. 

 

 

 

Interesting thank you.  I have one ds trying Quercetin for hay fever this year - obviously I know it’s not proven but nothing usually works anyway so there’s not much to lose I guess.  

[JennyD]

Excellent overview of all the different vaccines in development.

[Pen]

7 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Interesting thank you.  I have one ds trying Quercetin for hay fever this year - obviously I know it’s not proven but nothing usually works anyway so there’s not much to lose I guess.  

 

Unless one had an allergy to any item, there’s really nothing to lose at all afaik.

Zelenko says zinc and vitamin C are needed along with the Quercitin .    

 

We also first got Quercitin for allergies. Things I have read about Quercitin indicate that it has low absorption and that adding bromelain can help. 

[Acadie]

Covid long-hauler blogs about supplements she credits with her recovery. As always, consult health care providers and do your own research, but I find it interesting that she based her approach on the bradykinin hypothesis and mentions several supplements that have come up here.

https://www.alisa-valdes-rodriguez.com/post/i-finally-fully-recovered-from-long-haul-covid-19-here-s-how?fbclid=IwAR06M7jqdN3N9TUwOXHQolbk_mGm98qgZow66Fr0Gzf9kVTkeQAoJKw1qtw

Edited September 4, 2020 by Acadie

[TCB]

I was just listening to a BBC podcast and they were interviewing the head of the US Coronavirus task force. He said that although the US may be 4th in deaths per 100K it is a lot lower in the table when you look at excess deaths.

Does anyone know about that? I’ve only got my phone at the moment, as my dd is borrowing my laptop while her’s is fixed, and I find it hard to look at tables properly on it.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, TCB said:

I was just listening to a BBC podcast and they were interviewing the head of the US Coronavirus task force. He said that although the US may be 4th in deaths per 100K it is a lot lower in the table when you look at excess deaths.

Does anyone know about that? I’ve only got my phone at the moment, as my dd is borrowing my laptop while her’s is fixed, and I find it hard to look at tables properly on it.

 

I think it was 10th or 11th in deaths per 100K last we looked. Perhaps a few pages back this thread or some other thread.  Did that change? 

Idk what it is in excess deaths.  

(Maybe it’s a strategy to declare it 4th in deaths per 100k and then when that’s corrected it sounds much better?  But also Johns Hopkins had a table of just 20 selected countries, amongst which USA was 4th.  That seems to be getting people confused.) 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Pen

[Corraleno]

These graphs are from a recent (8/23) article on the BBC website.

ETA: The data in the first chart does not even include many of the deaths in the second "wave" that has occurred in the last 2 months.

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Corraleno

[Corraleno]

Here is a more up-to-date chart for per capita excess deaths, from the Economist, although it also does not include any US deaths from August and it mixes cities and countries. If you just compare the US to European countries, the rank is basically the same for excess deaths and Covid deaths: UK, Spain, Italy, and Belgium are above the US (and Belgium counts waaaaay more unconfirmed deaths as Covid than we do).

(ETA: There are a lot more countries and cities in this chart, this was as much as I could capture in a screen shot)

Edited September 4, 2020 by Corraleno

[TCB]

57 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Here is a more up-to-date chart for per capita excess deaths, from the Economist, although it also does not include any US deaths from August and it mixes cities and countries. If you just compare the US to European countries, the rank is basically the same for excess deaths and Covid deaths: UK, Spain, Italy, and Belgium are above the US (and Belgium counts waaaaay more unconfirmed deaths as Covid than we do).

(ETA: There are a lot more countries and cities in this chart, this was as much as I could capture in a screen shot)

He mentioned comparing US to Europe rather than individual countries, so maybe if you compare excess deaths in US to excess deaths in the whole of Europe you somehow get something different? Don’t know which is a more meaningful comparison.

[Ausmumof3]

13 hours ago, JennyD said:

Excellent overview of all the different vaccines in development.

Thanks this is what I was hoping for.  I do feel slightly concerned that both the closest to ready vaccines are fairly new technology but hopefully works out.  Double reason for having really good trials of everything.

[Ausmumof3]

Covid was detected in waste water in two locations in my state.  We supposedly have no active cases.  One location includes the Catchment for the quarantine hotels so could be from there.  The other location is in the Barossa where the initial outbreak occurred.  Thoughts are it could potentially be from a truck stop somewhere out there but it’s a bit concerning.  I think some people can shed for a long time so I guess the other possibility is someone’s still shedding from the initial outbreak.  Worst case scenario there’s some undetected low level community spread happening.

We also had a case in someone who came illegally from vic.

[Pen]

10 hours ago, Seasider too said:

I have been taking a natural antihistamine that is a combination of quercetin (800mg), Vitamin C (600mg), bromelain (200mg) and stinging nettle that is highly effective for reducing my reaction to ragweed pollen. I hope the quercetin will work for your son. 
 

This makes it sound like vitamin C is needed with the Quercitin even for allergy purposes.  

It was being used for my dog but without C. I am going try it on him again with C and find out if that helps. 

Just Quercitin with bromelain has helped an allergy for me.  But might have been better with C also. 

I have noticed stinging nettle in a lot of formulas.  Do you know how that’s supposed to help? Synergistic? 

 

Quote

 

I also take a daily dose of D (5000IU) with essential fatty acids (2400mg) and a multivitamin which contains zinc (25mg) and additional C (180mg). So effectively I’ve been on a CV prevention plan since before CV was a thing. 

 

Still a tad low on supplemental C 🤔?  

 

I wonder if anything like this perhaps not even realized could account for a few of the cases where one spouse gets CV and the other doesn’t.  (Maybe one always eats an apple and an orange daily plus a multivitamin or who knows.) 

 

Apparently, Dr Z has had no patients taking the Quercitin type prophylaxis get a severe case of CV19- even if high risk situation. But he has had patients get mild cases.  So it seems to be possible prevention of severe case, but not total prevention.. (He sounded like he thought that for low / medium risk patients this is possibly good to allow immunity to be built without severe sickness. Apparently he has also had no long haulers from patients on the prophylaxis. Plus stepped up early treatment if they do get sick. 

It may also happen with some vaccines that people who are vaccinated still get flu etc, but perhaps less severe than if they had not been vaccinated.  

Z has had high risk patients get CV on the Quercitin prophylaxis and would prefer HCQ for  high risk patients. Apparently he has had no one on his HCQ prophylaxis protocol get sick at all, including not himself even in his extreme high risk (health plus occupation and letting himself be exposed to cases without mask) situation.  This surprises me to some degree because from what I have learned about HCQ as prophylaxis, I would have thought it too would have allowed very mild cases and immune system build up. ( NB the HCQ prophylaxis uses a much lower dose of HCQ than Quercitin and only weekly, not daily. The nebulized HCQ prophylaxis has not been revealed afaik.) 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Pen

[Acadie]

10 hours ago, Seasider too said:

I have been taking a natural antihistamine that is a combination of quercetin (800mg), Vitamin C (600mg), bromelain (200mg) and stinging nettle that is highly effective for reducing my reaction to ragweed pollen. I hope the quercetin will work for your son. 
 

I also take a daily dose of D (5000IU) with essential fatty acids (2400mg) and a multivitamin which contains zinc (25mg) and additional C (180mg). So effectively I’ve been on a CV prevention plan since before CV was a thing. 

 

@Seasider too, would you mind sharing the brands of the natural antihistamine combo and fatty acid supplements you take? Trying to get our supplements all sorted out and those sound great.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

This makes it sound like vitamin C is needed with the Quercitin even for allergy purposes.  

It was being used for my dog but without C. I am going try it on him again with C and find out if that helps. 

Just Quercitin with bromelain has helped an allergy for me.  But might have been better with C also. 

I have noticed stinging nettle in a lot of formulas.  Do you know how that’s supposed to help? Synergistic? 

 

 

Still a tad low on supplemental C 🤔?  

 

I wonder if anything like this perhaps not even realized could account for a few of the cases where one spouse gets CV and the other doesn’t.  (Maybe one always eats an apple and an orange daily plus a multivitamin or who knows.) 

 

Apparently, Dr Z has had no patients taking the Quercitin type prophylaxis get a severe case of CV19- even if high risk situation. But he has had patients get mild cases.  So it seems to be possible prevention of severe case, but not total prevention.. (He sounded like he thought that for low / medium risk patients this is possibly good to allow immunity to be built without severe sickness. Apparently he has also had no long haulers from patients on the prophylaxis. Plus stepped up early treatment if they do get sick. 

It may also happen with some vaccines that people who are vaccinated still get flu etc, but perhaps less severe than if they had not been vaccinated.  

Z has had high risk patients get CV on the Quercitin prophylaxis and would prefer HCQ for  high risk patients. Apparently he has had no one on his HCQ prophylaxis protocol get sick at all, including not himself even in his extreme high risk (health plus occupation and letting himself be exposed to cases without mask) situation.  This surprises me to some degree because from what I have learned about HCQ as prophylaxis, I would have thought it too would have allowed very mild cases and immune system build up. ( NB the HCQ prophylaxis uses a much lower dose of HCQ than Quercitin and only weekly, not daily. The nebulized HCQ prophylaxis has not been revealed afaik.) 

 

 

Stinging nettle contains vitamin C as well as Quercetin (as well as other compounds that fight inflammation).

[Ausmumof3]

Vic cases are still on the way down but lockdown stage 4 has been extended two more weeks with a couple of minor modifications.  Rural areas are moving ahead faster.

it feels kind of bizarre because life is really back to normal here and 800km away things are so different.  

[Melissa in Australia]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Vic cases are still on the way down but lockdown stage 4 has been extended two more weeks with a couple of minor modifications.  Rural areas are moving ahead faster.

it feels kind of bizarre because life is really back to normal here and 800km away things are so different.  

rural areas are not moving very  much faster.

 DD 20 is absolutely heartbroken that she still cannot go see her male friend. You are only allowed to see your boyfriend if you are intimate which she is not. and as both her and him are back to living with respective families, they cannot count each other as single and having a bubble. I have suggested to her that they both just have to exercise in the same general area and bump into each other. She think I am  suggesting bending rules. ( called me a lawbreaker 🤣)

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7358766/
 

I wonder what the conspiracy theorists will make of this one?

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

rural areas are not moving very  much faster.

 DD 20 is absolutely heartbroken that she still cannot go see her male friend. You are only allowed to see your boyfriend if you are intimate which she is not. and as both her and him are back to living with respective families, they cannot count each other as single and having a bubble. I have suggested to her that they both just have to exercise in the same general area and bump into each other. She think I am  suggesting bending rules. ( called me a lawbreaker 🤣)

 

I’m sorry!  It’s been so long over there and it seems like most cases are linked to health care now.  If they just sorted the PPE issues you might have been on the road out.  Hope that things really trend down this week.

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

rural areas are not moving very  much faster.

 DD 20 is absolutely heartbroken that she still cannot go see her male friend. You are only allowed to see your boyfriend if you are intimate which she is not. and as both her and him are back to living with respective families, they cannot count each other as single and having a bubble. I have suggested to her that they both just have to exercise in the same general area and bump into each other. She think I am  suggesting bending rules. ( called me a lawbreaker 🤣)

 

Well, tell her not to worry, because it seems according to many that the lockdowns and restrictions and perhaps the virus itself will disappear after the American Presidntial election. Now....why Australia is taking precautions based on an American hoax i haven't seen explained.......sigh 

In all serious, I'm so sorry. I hope things change soon. 

[maize]

I think it is worth pointing out that the IFR for chickenpox in adults would be considered a very serious thing if most adults were susceptible to chickenpox.

Most are not. Chickenpox has been around forever so everyone in my generation got it as kids and developed immunity. And of course the next generation down either got the disease or got the vaccine.

One major reason the the SARS-COV-2 virus is a much more significant problem is that we started from a point of 100% susceptibility. 

That means direct comparisons to common established viral diseases such as chickenpox are not really relevant to considering the epidemiology and potential impact on the population of this disease.

[Matryoshka]

2 hours ago, maize said:

I think it is worth pointing out that the IFR for chickenpox in adults would be considered a very serious thing if most adults were susceptible to chickenpox.

Most are not. Chickenpox has been around forever so everyone in my generation got it as kids and developed immunity. And of course the next generation down either got the disease or got the vaccine.

One major reason the the SARS-COV-2 virus is a much more significant problem is that we started from a point of 100% susceptibility. 

That means direct comparisons to common established viral diseases such as chickenpox are not really relevant to considering the epidemiology and potential impact on the population of this disease.

Yep.  The comparison with chickenpox in adults will be much more valid once we have a very effective vaccine.  Virtually Zero adults are susceptible to chicken pox. 

But chicken pox also confers lifetime immunity in the vast, overwhelming majority of people after one exposure.  Coronaviruses do not.  That will also likely affect how effective a CV vaccine is and how often we'd need boosters...  Apples, oranges.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Matryoshka

[Pen]

MATH LINK

MATH Sept 2 update protocol  — it goes on with mild symptoms, hospital cases...screenshot below is just the first section diy / OTC daily suggestion 

(Here Vitamin C and Quercitin are specified as twice per day taken together .  Neither stays long in body after taking afaik.  Higher zinc than Zelenko uses —probably too high for me personally.) 

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Pen

[Lawyer&Mom]

15 minutes ago, Pen said:

MATH Sept 2 update protocol 

 

“BID” means twice a day.  I had to look it up.