Update: If you, or someone you know, have had rabies shots...

[1GirlTwinBoys]

Please tell me what to expect.  My twin boys slept in a dorm room on a church trip that had a bat in it.  The company that was called in could not capture or find it, so now the health department has contacted me and advised getting with their doctor to start the vaccine treatment.  

What should I expect?  Please tell me no side effects from the shots. I'm really nervous about this situation.

Edited July 14, 2019 by 1GirlTwinBoys

[Selkie]

My ds20 had to get rabies shots last year. He had no problems whatsoever - the shots weren’t painful and he had no side effects. I hope it goes as well for your boys!

[Pawz4me]

My nephew had them a few years ago. He had no problems and said they were no more painful than any other shot.

[May]

Neighbors had them, no problem🌺

[Lanny]

OP my wife and I are confused.  First of all, not all Bats have Rabies.  Secondly, if your DC were not bitten by a Rabid Bat, there is no possibility of your DC contracting Rabies and them getting anti-Rabies shots would be a complete waste of time and money..

I would back up and discuss this thoroughly with their Pediatrician.  I would go with what their Pediatrician suggests, after discussing whether or not they were bitten by the Bat.

(OT: We live in a Tropical Valley and our house has a huge inner patio and on very rare occasions, a Bat will fly into our house and become disoriented and have a  hard time getting out. My wife and DD sometimes try to help them get out of our house)

[DawnM]

Our whole family had them.  Same thing, couldn't test the bat and the health dept told us to get shots.  The initial shots are globulins so they sting.  But the subsequent shots don't hurt at all.  And no side effects other than foaming at the mouth (just kidding! 🤣)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

9 minutes ago, Lanny said:

OP my wife and I are confused.  First of all, not all Bats have Rabies.  Secondly, if your DC were not bitten by a Rabid Bat, there is no possibility of your DC contracting Rabies and them getting anti-Rabies shots would be a complete waste of time and money..

I would back up and discuss this thoroughly with their Pediatrician.  I would go with what their Pediatrician suggests, after discussing whether or not they were bitten by the Bat.

(OT: We live in a Tropical Valley and our house has a huge inner patio and on very rare occasions, a Bat will fly into our house and become disoriented and have a  hard time getting out. My wife and DD sometimes try to help them get out of our house)

 

In some parts of the USA, like mine, there are rabid bats. The department of natural resources is constantly trying to get a fix on exactly how many or what percentage, but it is significant.

A bat bite (or even a scrape with saliva, as the bat tests its environment) can be so small as to be undetectable, or mistaken for a different kind of bite or scratch.

That being the case, if a person has been in the presence of a bat while sleeping, the first line of defense is to capture the bat, which can be tested for rabies. But if the bat was not caught, protocol is to go ahead with the rabies series.

The reason why is that the person can't be tested for rabies exposure; they can only be tested for active rabies *once the disease is past the point of treatment.* In other words, if one assumes that 

A. the person was not bitten, and/or

B. that the bat didn't have rabies,

you'll only know for sure in about three days. At that point, there'll be no symptoms and you'll be very lucky, or the rabies symptoms will begin to show and it will be too late. This person will die of rabies. Once the symptoms are noticeable, it is way too late to give the shots, and there is no antidote. 

Therefore, "wait and see" is not recommended for rabies, because if you get it wrong, it will be too late. The shots are uncomfortable and expensive, but not generally dangerous. They are as safe as the well-established vaccines that Americans typically get. When in doubt, give the shots.

My son had possible exposure to rabies through a different critter than bat, but the day he went into the ER for his rabies shots, there were two people there for possible bat bites. The ER physician explained these protocols, which are based on the known presence of rabid bats in our community.

[DawnM]

16 minutes ago, Lanny said:

OP my wife and I are confused.  First of all, not all Bats have Rabies.  Secondly, if your DC were not bitten by a Rabid Bat, there is no possibility of your DC contracting Rabies and them getting anti-Rabies shots would be a complete waste of time and money..

I would back up and discuss this thoroughly with their Pediatrician.  I would go with what their Pediatrician suggests, after discussing whether or not they were bitten by the Bat.

(OT: We live in a Tropical Valley and our house has a huge inner patio and on very rare occasions, a Bat will fly into our house and become disoriented and have a  hard time getting out. My wife and DD sometimes try to help them get out of our house)

 

The CDC recommends that if you are sleeping in a room with a bat, even if you aren't sure you were bitten, that you get preventative shots.  There have been cases where people didn't know they were bitten in their sleep, as their bite is similar to a spider and if you sleep through it, you may not know.  The cases where it happened, (and they know about) the bats WERE rabid.

We had a Girl Scout troop sleeping in a cabin where a bat was found.  They all had to get shots.  Another case of some boys at camp in a tent who woke up to a bat.  They got shots.

[Matryoshka]

Our whole family has gotten the shots for the same reason as well. I'll chine in with everyone else who said it was just like any other shot.

[Tanaqui]

One of the reasons humans so rarely die of rabies in industrialized nations such as the USA is because we make people get their shots if there's even the slightest chance of infection.

Rabies is actually a frequent cause of death for humans worldwide, and it's not worth screwing around with. I'd rather waste my time and money than contract that particular illness.

It's good, Lanny, that you're not scared of bats. But it's still a risk if one might have bitten you. If the bats frequently come into your house at night while you're asleep it may be worth asking your doctor if you should get a preventative shot like vets do.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Tanaqui

[J-rap]

1 hour ago, Lanny said:

OP my wife and I are confused.  First of all, not all Bats have Rabies.  Secondly, if your DC were not bitten by a Rabid Bat, there is no possibility of your DC contracting Rabies and them getting anti-Rabies shots would be a complete waste of time and money..

I would back up and discuss this thoroughly with their Pediatrician.  I would go with what their Pediatrician suggests, after discussing whether or not they were bitten by the Bat.

(OT: We live in a Tropical Valley and our house has a huge inner patio and on very rare occasions, a Bat will fly into our house and become disoriented and have a  hard time getting out. My wife and DD sometimes try to help them get out of our house)

I was confused when I started hearing about the push for shots too, a few years ago.  I've actually never known anyone who has had the shots, but know plenty of people who have been exposed to bats in their house.  Maybe our state doesn't generally have rabid bats?   We've probably had 10 bats in our home over the years, several of them flying around while we were sleeping.  It honestly would never have occurred to me to get shots, back then.  Now, however, I'd at least inquire about it.

I just looked at our state's chart and it showed that of all bats tested in our state, 4% had rabies. 

[mmasc]

I can’t tell you what to expect, but I wanted to chime in and say I’m so sorry you and your boys are dealing with this. (Hugs)

[maize]

My 4 year old had them when she was less than a year old, she only cried with the globulin shot, the others didn't bother her at all and zero negative effects.

I had the pre-exposure vaccine every year when I lived in a part of the world where rabid dogs were common. No reaction at all.

[maize]

Treatment can be expensive, we found that the most economical route for us after the initial globulin shot that had to be administered at the ER was either the health department or ordering the vaccine through a pharmacy (prescribed by our pediatrician) and having the pediatrician administer it. We were initially told we had to do an ER visit for each shot but that was not accurate.

[moonflower]

Dh was bitten by a bat a few years ago and had the globulin shots (then others later, spaced out).  The bite was on his toe and the globulin shots did hurt a lot.  I think it was because the toe got full of liquid and they kept putting shots of the stuff in it, so the pain was pressure (at least that is my theory on hearing that it is not bad for other people).  

[wathe]

 @Lanny The protocol for rabies prophylaxis for bats-found-in-a-room-with-a-sleeping-person cases varies by country.  Here (Ontario, Canada) a rabies prophylaxis series is not generally recommended for a simple bats-in-the-bedroom case, unless there is evidence of direct contact with the bat.   Exceptions include anyone who can't give a reliable history - such as small children or those with cognitive impairment.  Awesome algorithm on page 7:   "Evidence indicates that when there is no direct contact with a bat, the risk of rabies is extremely low. Finding a bat in the room – even if the person was asleep – therefore generally does NOT merit administration of rPEP UNLESS direct contact is known to have occurred, or there is evidence of direct contact with the bat".  The last domestically acquired human rabies case in Ontario was in 1967.  And I'm not so far from the border - a proportion of our bats do have rabies, and aren't any different than American bats.  Americans and Canadians approach health care differently, based on the same evidence.  Culture plays a significant role in medicine.

ETA: We've had bats in the house twice, once in the main living area discovered late, late at night, and once in the kids' bedroom (discovered by the children well after bedtime, "Mom! there's a bat flying around in our room!!").  As per local protocol, we did not get shots.

Edited for clarity

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by wathe

[StephanieZ]

I am constantly frustrated by humans bitten by dogs with clearly sketchy histories and no way to confirm vaccination . . . have the HARDEST time getting treated prophylactically. I think if I or my kids are ever in that situation, I'll plan to just lie to the ER and tell them I woke up in a room with a bat flying close to me, and then he escaped out the door.  

[Matryoshka]

Here's some reading on the subject...

 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj7wJq17LDjAhXET98KHa1gBSYQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.france24.com%2Fen%2F20190612-infected-bats-pose-highest-rabies-risk-us-cdc&psig=AOvVaw2UnyBfs-nMA7DfVuEB8UoC&ust=1563071281508135

[rjand6more]

Our area is extremely low risk for rabies in bats.  Bats are all over here.  They occasionally end up where they shouldn't.  We have had to remove bats several times from our house.  Our neighbors have too.  None of us get the shots.  If I was ever bit, I would not hesitate to get shots.

[Laura in CA]

A friend of ours had to get rabies shots in Central America (he was bitten by a dog), and they were the old-fashioned painful kind (in the stomach). He said that the kind of rabies shots he would normally have gotten here in the U.S. would not have been painful, but he couldn't switch types during a course.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

There was a baby bat laying on the floor in the dorm room my boys stayed in.  They thought the first couple of nights that it was just a piece of cloth or lint on the floor.  It never moved or changed positions.  Then the last night they said it scooted across the floor a little bit and went under the desk, and then scooted over to a hole behind an a/c vent in the wall. They said it was unable to fly etc..  Their beds were really high off the ground, and they didn't come in and go to sleep until 4am each night and back up by 7am.

Once they told an adult about it, a professional company came in and was tearing out walls trying to find the bat, which they never did. So the health department called to tell me since they were exposed they had to recommend we see their dr and discuss treatment.

A friend of theirs spent one night in the room and his mom doesn't think it was a big deal, and is not going to do anything about it.  After talking with the nurse at their doctors office, she doesn't see any reason they would need vaccinated. She said it would be different if it could fly around the room.

[El...]

Bats can be very small. How do the boys know it was a non-flying baby? 

This sounds really stressful!

[Carol in Cal.]

Get the shots.

The downside risk is not worth it.

There are documented cases of deaths from rabies where the only possible exposure is sleeping in a place with bats.  There is not always a visible mark in those instances, and the mechanism (bite or something else) is still unclear, but nevertheless--folks got rabies this way in this country.

[MaBelle]

Merciful heavens, don't ever blow off rabies/bats. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by MaBelle

[Meriwether]

We frequently had bats in our house, two houses ago. We had 3 small children at the time and never got shots. I'm not sure I would handle it the same way now. 

[EKS]

Have your kids ever had side effects from vaccinations before?  What exactly are you worried about?

The most common side effects are the same as those for any other vaccine--pain at the injection site, headache, etc.

Rabies is a horrible, incurable disease that results in death essentially 100% of the time.  On the other hand, no deaths have been reported from the rabies vaccine, and serious side effects are rare.

Frankly, I can understand being nervous about your kids possibly being exposed to rabies.  I would be freaking out.  But rather than being suspicious of the vaccine, I'd be incredibly grateful that such a treatment exists, and I'd have gotten my kids in line to receive it immediately upon hearing of the situation.  The potential downside is simply too devastating to consider anything else.

Edited July 17, 2019 by EKS

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The idea of sitting around waiting for rabies symptoms to confirm the risk (by which point it would be too late to prevent a horrible death), when the incubation period could be MONTHS, when those early symptoms are nothing more than flu-like symptoms...which would linger for several days and then progress to delirium, hallucinations, and hydrophobia, and then death...

Why would anybody want to live like that? With the thought, "Hmmm, wonder if I'm going to suffer horribly and then die of rabies...maybe, maybe not," for such a long time, with no chance to redo the decision on the vax? 

This is a religious level of fatalism. If those are the beliefs, people are entitled to their beliefs; we don't even do forced vaccines in a deadly epidemic. We quarantine, instead. It's definitely each person's choice. 

But if it's not a staunch religious belief that is worth dying of rabies for, then why not end both the risk and the dread immediately? And as EKS, be grateful for the option?

 

 

 

 

[Pen]

People I know who have had rabies shots have not had troubles with them.

Given that health dept said to do it, I would.

 

otoh we have had a lot of bats around in some years and have not had shots even if they’ve been in— but we would if bite were suspected

[Matryoshka]

4 hours ago, EKS said:

The most common side effects are the same as those for any other vaccine--pain at the injection site, headache, etc.

Rabies is a horrible, incurable disease that results in death essentially 100% of the time.  On the other hand, no deaths have been reported from the rabies vaccine, and serious side effects are rare.

Part of my thinking was how embarrassing it would be to die of a disease that is 100% preventable unless you don't get the darn vaccine. And once you get symptoms,  it's too late - once they show up, the vaccine is ineffective and  it's 100% fatal. (I don't consider the one person ever who survived - with brain damage - to be statistically significant ).

[alisoncooks]

Anybody else remember the episode of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, where Ingrid dies from rabies? That scarred me for life!

[kbutton]

On 7/12/2019 at 8:18 PM, moonflower said:

Dh was bitten by a bat a few years ago and had the globulin shots (then others later, spaced out).  The bite was on his toe and the globulin shots did hurt a lot.  I think it was because the toe got full of liquid and they kept putting shots of the stuff in it, so the pain was pressure (at least that is my theory on hearing that it is not bad for other people).  

That is my understanding of why they are painful when they are painful.