"relationship with food"

[TechWife]

This phrase has come up in a few threads lately. I don't understand what a "relationship with food" is. I understand that people have different levels of understanding of the nutritional aspects of various foods and I understand people make different choices. I understand that some people have eating disorders and they aren't making choices in the same way a "typical" person is. But food is fuel. How does one have a "relationship" with food? I don't have a relationship with any other inanimate object. If I walked around talking about my healthy or unhealthy relationship with my couch, or my car, or my clothing, people would be scratching their heads. I have relationships with other people and I sort of have a relationship with my pets (but not in the truest sense of the word relationship). So, what do people mean when they say this?

Edited November 27, 2018 by TechWife

[Tanaqui]

Try substituting the phrase "attitude about" instead of "relationship with". You can have a bad attitude about alcohol - say, constantly thinking about your next drink and frequently drinking to excess and using alcohol to manage your emotions for you (which just won't end well). You can, in fact, have a bad attitude about your clothing - using shopping for new clothes to fix your feelings OR, on the flip side, only wearing frumpy and unattractive clothing OR only wearing stuff that's too skimpy in inappropriate settings. You can have a bad attitude about food - trying to avoid it and gain emotional control by micromanaging every aspect of your consumption, constantly thinking about eating and not eating OR binging all the time and again, constantly thinking about food and your next meal and eating every time you're upset.

[ktgrok]

I can say that the idea that food is just fuel, and nothing else is as foreign to me as the idea of a relationship with food is to you. 

[TechWife]

7 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Try substituting the phrase "attitude about" instead of "relationship with". You can have a bad attitude about alcohol - say, constantly thinking about your next drink and frequently drinking to excess and using alcohol to manage your emotions for you (which just won't end well). You can, in fact, have a bad attitude about your clothing - using shopping for new clothes to fix your feelings OR, on the flip side, only wearing frumpy and unattractive clothing OR only wearing stuff that's too skimpy in inappropriate settings. You can have a bad attitude about food - trying to avoid it and gain emotional control by micromanaging every aspect of your consumption, constantly thinking about eating and not eating OR binging all the time and again, constantly thinking about food and your next meal and eating every time you're upset.

Attitude makes more sense. The phrase thinking process might make sense, too. An unhealthy attitude or thinking process about food might be what, though? Expecting more than fuel from the food - like expecting it to fulfill us emotionally somehow, or using it to distract from circumstances?

[TechWife]

Yet I do recognize it's hard for people to loose weight or gain weight, whichever is needed, when their environment is working against them - be that people who are encouraging unhealthy habits, financial constraints, time constraints or a variety of other factors. Perhaps the "relationship with food" is related to the environmental factors where food is consumed/not consumed appropriately?

I just may be getting too deep with this, over-thinking it. I probably need to get to bed and stop "contemplating my belly button" as my mother used to say I was doing when I was over-thinking things.

[ktgrok]

Food can feel like my best friend or my worst enemy. Food can make me happy, help me celebrate, help me commiserate, be a way I show love to others, be a way I serve others, as well as being something that feels it controls me life. 

I mean an alcoholic has a relationship with alcohol, a heroin addict has a relationship with heroin, in the sense that they are fighting against the desire for the substance, or thinking about when they get their next fix, etc. For some people, food is the same way. 

[forty-two]

16 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I can say that the idea that food is just fuel, and nothing else is as foreign to me as the idea of a relationship with food is to you. 

I don't particularly have troubles with food, but the idea that it's impossible to have a relationship with an inanimate object was really jarring to me.  I mean, I'd say that food can nourish the soul as much as the body - and that that is fundamentally a *good* thing.  It's a problem when people use food to try to fill a non-food hole in their souls - but imo the problem is trying to use food to solve a non-food problem, not the idea that food satisfies immaterial as well as material needs. 

[EmseB]

12 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Attitude makes more sense. The phrase thinking process might make sense, too. An unhealthy attitude or thinking process about food might be what, though? Expecting more than fuel from the food - like expecting it to fulfill us emotionally somehow, or using it to distract from circumstances?

 

If people only used food as fuel or only ever thought of it that way, we'd always be able to eat just the right things and in just the correct amounts. But I eat too much Haribo because I love the way it tastes. I mean, I really, really enjoy that candy. I love it. When I say "love" there, of course I don't mean love like the way I love my husband, but language is nuanced, right? I don't eat it for fuel; I eat it because I love the flavor and the texture and the nostalgia of having gummy cola bottles as a kid. It's way more than fuel. I don't know that I have a technical relationship with them, but that is what I think of when someone uses that phrase. It's a turn of phrase, not a literal two-way relationship because as you pointed out, food is not doing anything back. But it can produce hormone responses that are the same as if it were actually giving us something because we ate it.

[DesertBlossom]

I think it's more than an attitude about food. I know what foods are good for me. I know what I should eat. And I also know that eating an entire bag of candy orange slices is going to give me a wicked headache.  But if I'm stressed out or my kids are driving me nuts, the junk food is over there waving hi and looking all inviting and telling me everything is going to be okay.... so we hang out for a bit in the dark closet where the kids can't find us. 

#guesswhoateallthepottytreats #hint #itwasntthe3yearold 

[Rosie_0801]

Babies are born wanting to comfort eat, so I figure it must be a very human thing to do.

A relationship with food isn't just about eating disorders. I don't feel properly myself without too many bottles of vinegar and oil in my kitchen, or a jam collection even though I pretty much never eat jam. Silly, but I'm allowed to be.

[LMD]

I'm having a sordid, extra marital relationship with snickers right now...

because I'm stressed and sick and a little hit of sugar/fat/peanuts makes the world seem a bit sweeter. I can't take a bubble bath right now, I can't ignore the world and read, I can't fly off on a holiday, but I can quickly skarf down a chocolate bar.

[SKL]

In the case of my kid, it appears to be a series of dammit I need you, no I don't want you, I WANT MEAT, get that away from me, and I'm gonna die if I don't get some sugar right now.

It also gets more complex as there are other people who are interested in her food choices.  Nurturing is repulsive, disinterest is preferred - except when it isn't.  And food choices can be used as a weapon or to show preference for one person over another.  And a different personality comes out when help is needed to get a desired food.  All together it's a lot of drama.

Personally I am an "eat to live" person and I pretty much do whatever's easiest.  I don't have what I'd call a relationship with food.

[regentrude]

Food is way more than "just fuel" for many people! 

Food can induce guilt and shame, cause compulsions, make people feel sick, be a companion to quell loneliness, a medication for depression, a source of conflict in the family, of stress,  anxiety, and worry. Food can be a  source of great joy, a way to show love, a passion, a way to connect with people.

I definitely feel emotion about food. I love to eat, love to learn about food, love to cook, host, and feed people. My DD is a foodie and fantastic cook; food is her hobby and brings her tremendous joy. Food is at the center of gatherings - we sat for seven hours at the Thanksgiving table with friends and family! (No, we were not stuffing ourselves for the entire time; the meal was the anchor and inspired hours of conversation). Food is a way through which we show love and caring to others by being thoughtful about their dietary restrictions and preferences and making them feel included by providing things they can eat, an experience people with serious restrictions often do not have.

ETA: I see the food/fuel thing in a  similar way as house/shelter. The primary function of a house is shelter, of course, but we imbue houses with much more emotion and meaning - they serve as an expression of personality, philosophy, parenting style, signal socieoconomic status, can be a source of pride or anxiety.

Edited November 27, 2018 by regentrude

[regentrude]

I am curious, so here is a question for those who consider food=fuel: do you entertain a lot? (I would expect people who entertain frequently to view food differently, but maybe I am wrong)

[marbel]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

<snip>

ETA: I see the food/fuel thing in a  similar way as house/shelter. The primary function of a house is shelter, of course, but we imbue houses with much more emotion and meaning - they serve as an expression of personality, philosophy, parenting style, signal socieoconomic status, can be a source of pride or anxiety.

I love this!

The idea that "food is simply fuel" was foreign to me till I met my MIL. She eats because she has to.  And, she cooks that way, with no imagination or real care. On holidays she makes the traditional things, but she doesn't enjoy it. She eats out as a way to avoid cooking and because my FIL likes to, but she doesn't care.

I suspect she is on the extreme end so I am in no way implying that everyone who thinks of food simply as fuel is as careless as she is.

As is the case in any relationship or attitude, it can be healthy or unhealthy.  My MIL's is probably healthy when it comes to her own eating, but I think it is unhealthy when she is critical of the way other people eat. She does not understand enjoying good food, so it appears as gluttony to her. And pity the poor overweight person who seems to be enjoying food too much!

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by marbel

[Guest]

9 hours ago, TechWife said:

This phrase has come up in a few threads lately. I don't understand what a "relationship with food" is. I understand that people have different levels of understanding of the nutritional aspects of various foods and I understand people make different choices. I understand that some people have eating disorders and they aren't making choices in the same way a "typical" person is. But food is fuel. How does one have a "relationship" with food? I don't have a relationship with any other inanimate object. If I walked around talking about my healthy or unhealthy relationship with my couch, or my car, or my clothing, people would be scratching their heads. I have relationships with other people and I sort of have a relationship with my pets (but not in the truest sense of the word relationship). So, what do people mean when they say this?

Well, to be fair, I do think people can have an unhealthy relationship with their car or their career or their house. I think this phrase just means, “manner of relating.” A person could be unhealthily relating to their car if they always polish it, but won’t drive it because it could get dirty. Or they won’t let kids sit in it because they might get snot or cookie crums or soccer cleat marks on the upholstry. 

[BarbecueMom]

55 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I am curious, so here is a question for those who consider food=fuel: do you entertain a lot? (I would expect people who entertain frequently to view food differently, but maybe I am wrong)

I’m mostly a food = fuel person (love cooking, hate eating) and no, I don’t entertain anyone.  It’s been years since we’ve has guests for anything other than the kids’ birthday cake.  I typically don’t eat much or anything at other people’s social gatherings, either, whether at a home or restaurant.

[SKL]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

I am curious, so here is a question for those who consider food=fuel: do you entertain a lot? (I would expect people who entertain frequently to view food differently, but maybe I am wrong)

Nope, it stresses me out as I am not naturally talented in feeding people.

When I do entertain, I buy rather than cook the food.

[SanDiegoMom]

I responded on the other thread but I can go a little further here -- food, when I was eating disordered, was a proxy for all of the mental health issues and low self-worth that I was experiencing.  I had a lot of self-hatred already, I had a difficult relationship with my mom, a long distance relationship which was not exactly emotionally healthy (though it is now as we are still married 19 years later:)) so my "relationship" with food became the proxy way for me to deal with all of the terrible feelings I was experiencing.  It can be seen actually as a self-defense mechanism.  By concentrating all those feelings that I couldn't control into food which I COULD control, it gave me back control over my life.  Obviously it took over my life and became the new problem, but initially it just helped me to function.  Good food (or no food!) gave me my first feelings of self worth, of pride in myself. Bad food (and that could mean 6 bites of a sandwich when I meant to have only four, or it could mean an entire cake and carton of ice cream in one sitting) just reinforced all the bad things I believed I was -- impulsive, ugly, fat, unlikeable, needy... etc.  So food became the "bad" me, and no food or all low calorie food became the "good" me.  

I sought the help of a therapist who first had to put me on a very strict food regimen -- by taking control of what I ate it took away my choice so that I did not have to feel the guilt anymore about what I ate.  Also because I was pretty underweight.  But I was lucky -- over time being married, having kids, having a job all replaced eating as a substitute for self esteem. I finally had my emotional needs met in my own healthy relationships and now I rarely think about food at all.  It has literally become just fuel for me and I am so thankful! 

My sister was also eating disordered.  She has never fully recovered, I think.  She goes through different regimens all the time -- paleo, no sugar, all different exercise programs.  She maintains at a low weight and doesn't have any snacks in the house.  Her son started restricting for a while during high school, and her daughter does now.  I feel sorry for them.  They talk about food so much more than we do and know every calorie count of all foods.  

[hepatica]

Hard to overstate the irony of this conversation popping up the week after Thanksgiving - which is essentially an entire national holiday centered around a ritualized meal 🙂

[Kassia]

22 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

I responded on the other thread but I can go a little further here -- food, when I was eating disordered, was a proxy for all of the mental health issues and low self-worth that I was experiencing.  I had a lot of self-hatred already, I had a difficult relationship with my mom, a long distance relationship which was not exactly emotionally healthy (though it is now as we are still married 19 years later:)) so my "relationship" with food became the proxy way for me to deal with all of the terrible feelings I was experiencing.  It can be seen actually as a self-defense mechanism.  By concentrating all those feelings that I couldn't control into food which I COULD control, it gave me back control over my life.  Obviously it took over my life and became the new problem, but initially it just helped me to function.  Good food (or no food!) gave me my first feelings of self worth, of pride in myself. Bad food (and that could mean 6 bites of a sandwich when I meant to have only four, or it could mean an entire cake and carton of ice cream in one sitting) just reinforced all the bad things I believed I was -- impulsive, ugly, fat, unlikeable, needy... etc.  So food became the "bad" me, and no food or all low calorie food became the "good" me.  

I sought the help of a therapist who first had to put me on a very strict food regimen -- by taking control of what I ate it took away my choice so that I did not have to feel the guilt anymore about what I ate.  Also because I was pretty underweight.  But I was lucky -- over time being married, having kids, having a job all replaced eating as a substitute for self esteem. I finally had my emotional needs met in my own healthy relationships and now I rarely think about food at all.  It has literally become just fuel for me and I am so thankful! 

 

 

Your first paragraph nails my feelings exactly.  

I am glad you were able to recover and live a normal life.  This is my goal.  

[Bluegoat]

I think you can also see this played out on a cultural level.  Most cultures have food traditions, North Americans (as a whole, there are communities that this is not the case for) often seem to have less of this than many other places.  There are significant traditions about what you eat, when, and with whom.  And this connects back to the natural world, the seasons, life changes, celebrations, and so on.  

Our cultural relation to food can speak to how we are relating to other people, animals and plants.  The propensity of the western diet to go so badly astray, to my mind, speaks to an alienation from nature, and from other people, and from ourselves.  A real food tradition observed by individuals, a family, or culture can be protective against all of those things.

 

[wintermom]

13 hours ago, TechWife said:

This phrase has come up in a few threads lately. I don't understand what a "relationship with food" is. I understand that people have different levels of understanding of the nutritional aspects of various foods and I understand people make different choices. I understand that some people have eating disorders and they aren't making choices in the same way a "typical" person is. But food is fuel. How does one have a "relationship" with food? I don't have a relationship with any other inanimate object. If I walked around talking about my healthy or unhealthy relationship with my couch, or my car, or my clothing, people would be scratching their heads. I have relationships with other people and I sort of have a relationship with my pets (but not in the truest sense of the word relationship). So, what do people mean when they say this?

I suspect that this concept of having a "relationship" with food is something that would mean different things to different people. It means very little to me, because I define the term relationship as a two-way interaction between people (primarily) that involves meaningful communication and some degree of emotion. There is a range of relationships between me and other living organisms, such as my pets, viruses, bacteria, molds, etc. in my life, or spiritual beings (i.e., God), however the level of communication and the degree of emotion varies. I find it challenging to even state that I have a "relationship" with God, as I'm more of a concrete thinker.

There is no way I'd say that I have a "relationship" with food. It's not that food has little meaning, it's simply that I don't think about food in these terms. I do things to food and it does things to me (especially the foods I'm allergic to), but all the emotions around what to eat, how much to eat, when to eat, etc. don't equal a "relationship" they equal a series of biological functions and sensations. Why people put in the time and energy to prepare beautiful looking food, why they invite others to share in eating food equal social interactions with people. Food is the medium, but the relationship isn't primarily with food itself.

 

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

but the relationship isn't primarily with food itself.

 

No, it's a relationship with yourself about food.

[Pam in CT]

I have two friends who are both spectacular cooks and also frequent and enthusiastic hostesses.  For them, cooking for their families and friends is a joy, the means by which they connect, the way they express love for their families and warmth and affection for their friends.  To walk into their homes and simply inhale is to be enveloped in their awesomeness.  That for me is a relationship with food -- food as a kind of language of caring and connection.   Compared to them I am myself rather a slacker of a cook, rather pedestrian; but even I connect feeding people with caring for them. 

Thanksgiving (when it works -- I recognize it doesn't, always) fuses food with family, and family ritual, and habits of gratitude, with ritualized food.  That for me is a relationship with food, too.

We eat pretty much the same ritual foods most every Sabbath.  That also is relationship.

I dunno.  Like any relationship, there is always a potential to go south.  But food is also life-affirming and essential.  At its best it brings us together.  It's kind of sad to eat alone.

 

ETA I just saw wintermom's post above.  I've never thought about it in quite those terms, but I think I think food DOES have meaning.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Pam in CT

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, wintermom said:

 It means very little to me, because I define the term relationship as a two-way interaction between people (primarily) that involves meaningful communication and some degree of emotion.

That is a very narrow definition of the term "relationship".

The dictionary defines it as " the way in which two or more concepts, objects, or people are connected, or the state of being connected."

A relationship is any connection between objects/people/concepts; inanimate objects can have a relationship to one another, and  even immaterial quantities have relationships ( like the outdoor temperature and my heating bill)

Edited November 27, 2018 by regentrude

[SKL]

I wish I could cook well and love it.  Also I always wished I would find a mate who cooked.  Oh well.  Not in the cards.  😛

I always dreaded having to do Thanksgiving.  So far I have managed to avoid it.  Hopefully that will continue to be the case.

[LarlaB]

18 hours ago, TechWife said:

Attitude makes more sense. The phrase thinking process might make sense, too. An unhealthy attitude or thinking process about food might be what, though? Expecting more than fuel from the food - like expecting it to fulfill us emotionally somehow, or using it to distract from circumstances?

 

The “food is simply fuel” doesn’t actually work that way for most people I know.  We use food as part of celebration, offering comfort, boredom and also addiction. Otherwise we’d just have an IV rolleing around with us. We are complex, dimensional and dynamic. Similarly to how sex isn’t just a function of a reproductive system. 

A sugar rush isn’t an inanimate thing.  The serotonin produced from carbohydrates provides a chemical reaction in the brain.  Food does something to the body beyond just serving as calories or macronutrients.

And those who are addicted to food cannot simply go without it- unlike smoking, alcohol or drugs.  We need it to survive and yet it also has addictive properties (sugar anyone?) and cultural significance.  

 Complex

[wintermom]

15 hours ago, regentrude said:

That is a very narrow definition of the term "relationship".

The dictionary defines it as " the way in which two or more concepts, objects, or people are connected, or the state of being connected."

A relationship is any connection between objects/people/concepts; inanimate objects can have a relationship to one another, and  even immaterial quantities have relationships ( like the outdoor temperature and my heating bill)

Yes, it's narrow to define a certain kind of relationship within a specific context. And I believe that is the entire point of this thread and the confusion using the term "relationship." There are all kinds of relationships; the field of statistics seems to revolve around describing relationships between things.

In the biological context, food is fuel and survival. That is certainly a "relationship." Food can also mean illness or death if an organism reacts in a certain way.  It seems that some people expand the definition of "relationship" and food to include a vast array of items and contexts. Defining what the definition they are using is, and perhaps why they are expanding it, can help discussion.

Edited November 28, 2018 by wintermom

[Guest]

12 hours ago, SKL said:

I wish I could cook well and love it.  Also I always wished I would find a mate who cooked.  Oh well.  Not in the cards.  😛

I always dreaded having to do Thanksgiving.  So far I have managed to avoid it.  Hopefully that will continue to be the case.

I laughed about that last line, because, though I have hosted very big holiday meals many times over, I have never baked a turkey. Not one time. In some cases, another person brought a turkey. In a few cases, dh deep fried one. So I have never had to navigate that whole issue of when to put it in and how many days for thawing, etc. 

At this point, I’m committed to my ignorance of this subject. 

[regentrude]

10 minutes ago, Quill said:

I laughed about that last line, because, though I have hosted very big holiday meals many times over, I have never baked a turkey. Not one time. In some cases, another person brought a turkey. In a few cases, dh deep fried one. So I have never had to navigate that whole issue of when to put it in and how many days for thawing, etc. 

At this point, I’m committed to my ignorance of this subject. 

I have always been puzzled about the laments regarding the Thanksgiving turkey - when it comes to feeding a large number of people, turkey is the easiest: lots of meat that cooks itself in the oven with only a few minutes hands-on time before. If you use an oven bag, it can't even dry out. If it's done too early, it can rest. Very forgiving, because a few minutes don't matter.

Edited November 28, 2018 by regentrude

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

I have two friends who are both spectacular cooks and also frequent and enthusiastic hostesses.  For them, cooking for their families and friends is a joy, the means by which they connect, the way they express love for their families and warmth and affection for their friends.  To walk into their homes and simply inhale is to be enveloped in their awesomeness.  That for me is a relationship with food -- food as a kind of language of caring and connection.   Compared to them I am myself rather a slacker of a cook, rather pedestrian; but even I connect feeding people with caring for them. 

Thanksgiving (when it works -- I recognize it doesn't, always) fuses food with family, and family ritual, and habits of gratitude, with ritualized food.  That for me is a relationship with food, too.

We eat pretty much the same ritual foods most every Sabbath.  That also is relationship.

I dunno.  Like any relationship, there is always a potential to go south.  But food is also life-affirming and essential.  At its best it brings us together.  It's kind of sad to eat alone.

 

ETA I just saw wintermom's post above.  I've never thought about it in quite those terms, but I think I think food DOES have meaning.

I agree with this. Even with all the potential potholes of dealing with annoying family members, I really do love the gathering for Thanksgiving and also for Christmas. My dd has taken over the traditional handmade noodles and gravy, which my MIL cannot do anymore, and I am so proud of her for doing it. There is something so stabilizing about traditional foods turning up again and again. 

Christmas has even more markers of traditional foods and foods that signify ancestry. The types of cookies, the side dishes, the desserts, decorative foods, candy canes, homemade fudge and peanut brittle - all have strong signalling for family. Family can be so irriating, but the adhesive of those traditional foods helps us all stick together for one day. 

Another thought about food and relationship: breastfeeding children. I would guess probably many mothers here breastfed their babies if that was possible. This choice itself is about so much more than getting some nutrients into baby’s tummy. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I have always been puzzled about the laments regarding the Thanksgiving turkey - when it comes to feeding a large number of people, turkey is the easiest: lots of meat that cooks itself in the oven with only a few minutes hands-on time before. If you use an oven bag, it can't even dry out. If it's done too early, it can rest. Very forgiving, because a few minutes don't matter.

I suppose, but I don’t think turkey is a particulalry delicious meat. For a large meat, I would rather have a ham. 

Also, I don’t want it cluttering up my ovens - those are for pies! 😄 

[J-rap]

I can see food being a type of relationship.  Of all of the inanimate objects, it's probably the one thing that we can't NOT think about...  I mean, it is so intricately part of our daily lives that we can't possibly ignore it.  For many cultures over time, their entire day centered around finding food and preparing food.  It's something we have to build into our day whether we want to or not.  Not only that, but we put it into our bodies through our mouths, and really, what we eat partly turns into who we are!   

Whether we "obsess" over it or not, it's still in a way a very personal thing that we must think about and that our lives depend on.  It is often still the centerpiece of our days, our gatherings, our holidays, our entertainment.  It's something we get to know better over the years, too.  We learn that our bodies might rebel against certain foods or during certain times, or it might find comfort or energy in others.  

I was always a food = fuel type person.  I knew I had to eat, but it felt more like an interruption to my day than anything.  As a result, I wasn't a very good cook!  My dh and my kids all really love food, and they couldn't understand why I didn't feel the same way about it that they did.  That changed about 6 years ago when I really got into cooking for a the first time in my life, experimenting with different types of foods and recipes, and finding that when I prepared food differently, it was actually pretty good!  (Like roasting vegetables with a little olive oil instead of steaming them for so long that they were completely limp and tasteless!)  Now I really enjoy food and think about it completely differently than I used to.  I often start thinking about recipes early in the day (for dinner that evening), and planning out holiday meals in advance.  It's fun to think about and I actually look forward to eating.  

So, yeah, my relationship with food has changed!  🙂 

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

I suppose, but I don’t think turkey is a particulalry delicious meat. For a large meat, I would rather have a ham. 

Also, I don’t want it cluttering up my ovens - those are for pies! 😄 

I'm not a big fan of turkey either (but I absolutely dislike ham), but I used to cook one when the kids were younger because it's tradition and because DS used to love it as a kid. We've now switched to just a couple of London broil which take only a short time, and a big spread of vegan sides. 

Do you bake pies immediately before the dinner? I thought they'd have to cool? We didn't get ours baked Wednesday and made them first thing Thursday morning before anything else had to go in the oven.

Edited November 28, 2018 by regentrude

[J-rap]

23 minutes ago, Quill said:

I laughed about that last line, because, though I have hosted very big holiday meals many times over, I have never baked a turkey. Not one time. In some cases, another person brought a turkey. In a few cases, dh deep fried one. So I have never had to navigate that whole issue of when to put it in and how many days for thawing, etc. 

At this point, I’m committed to my ignorance of this subject. 

I was just telling this to someone the other day.  All of our relatives live in a different city... (most live in the same one).  Just our family lives a distance away in a small town, so we're the ones who travel to see everyone.  As a result, we're never the holiday host.  So, we might bring a lot of sides, but the host always seems to provide the turkey.  I've never prepared a turkey in my entire life!  In the few instances where my dh wanted a turkey during other times of the year (it doesn't happen much), he cooks it himself.  He's a great cook and he enjoys it too.  All of my kids love to cook as well, so I think when we're at the point of gathering more with just our children and their families, they'll prepare the turkey.  🙂 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I'm not a big fan of turkey either (but I absolutely dislike ham), but I used to cook one when the kids were younger because it's tradition and because DS used to love it. We've now switched to just a couple of London broil which take only a short time, and a big spread of vegan sides. 

Do you bake pies immediately before the dinner? I thought they'd have to cool? We didn't get ours baked Wednesday and made them first thing Thursday morning before anything else had to go in the oven.

Depends on the pie. For fruit pies, I prefer them warmer. For filled pies, yeah cooled or refrigerated is better. 

 

[Carrie12345]

23 hours ago, regentrude said:

I am curious, so here is a question for those who consider food=fuel: do you entertain a lot? (I would expect people who entertain frequently to view food differently, but maybe I am wrong)

I'm not on the food is ONLY fuel bench, but I try to keep on the food is PRIMARILY fuel bench.  I almost never entertain, for unrelated reasons. (My house sucks for entertaining.) This is probably a good thing, because I consider just about any group gathering (or special occasion with immediate family) to be deserving of celebratory food and drink!

[regentrude]

13 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

, because I consider just about any group gathering (or special occasion with immediate family) to be deserving of celebratory food and drink!

LOL - I'm with you on the bolded. I think any gathering is an occasion to share a meal. Nutritious and delicious are not mutually exclusive.

DH inviting a colleague to give a talk here? I host an after-dinner reception for my department. Choir concert over? Let's do potluck at my house at the next scheduled rehearsal day. New colleague visiting town to scout out housing? Let's have him over for dinner to meet a few colleagues. Going to the theatre with friends? Dinner at my house before the show. (To clarify: "dinner" doesn't have to be fancy. Last time I hosted, I baked bread, cooked a big pot of stew, made a salad. Done. It's about the company.)

My friends are the same. There are barely any restaurants in this town that are worth eating at, so everybody cooks and bakes from scratch. Book club food has been elevated from chips&cheese nibbles to book themed cooked food. Our women's circle does a fantastic potluck. Food is good 🙂 We have to eat anyway, so might as well make it enjoyable.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by regentrude

[TechWife]

3 hours ago, wintermom said:

Yes, it's narrow to define a certain kind of relationship within a specific context. And I believe that is the entire point of this thread and the confusion using the term "relationship." There are all kinds of relationships; the field of statistics seems to revolve around describing relationships between things.

In the biological context, food is fuel and survival. That is certainly a "relationship." Food can also mean illness or death if an organism reacts in a certain way.  It seems that some people expand the definition of "relationship" and food to include a vast array of items and contexts. Defining what the definition they are using is, and perhaps why they are expanding it, can help discussion.

Yes - statistics describes the relationships between things, but people often talk about their relationship with food. It would make more sense to me if people discussed the relationship between their eating habits and their heath, or even the relationship between their favorite foods and the happy memories those foods bring to mind. "I love turkey because it reminds me of the family dinners we had growing up & that makes me happy" is a different conversation than "I love turkey because it makes me happy." For me, personally, that turkey isn't going to make me happy, but it seeing it, smelling it, and/or tasting it might bring to mind an experience with other people (relationship) that makes me happy. Alternatively, I might just recognize that I enjoy the taste of a food and move along without any associated memories coming to mind. 

I recognize it's a narrow definition of relationship, but some definitions are narrow and the understanding and use of words occurs within a larger context, and it is that context that leads to the appropriate definition of the word for the circumstances. I guess I wonder if we backed away from this idea of  having a relationship with food, might our culture overall be healthier? I really don't know the answer to that.

 

[SKL]

Well honestly, I think people are saying "relationship with food" tongue-in-cheek and assume the listener will understand what is meant.  This might not be a fair assumption.

It's like when my brother says he has a date with his pillow.  I mean it's not an actual date, but he's really looking forward to them getting together.

That said, food is definitely more than fuel for most of us.  Most of us have food likes and dislikes - we enjoy eating certain things past the point of needing it for fuel, while we may dislike eating other things that would be great fuel.  Some foods make us physically feel good, and even impact brain chemistry.  Others bring back good or bad memories / feelings to our minds.  Even a cold person like me has some of that going on, though I don't have an emotional experience with foods generally.

Now coffee on the other hand ....

[Bluegoat]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

I suppose, but I don’t think turkey is a particulalry delicious meat. For a large meat, I would rather have a ham. 

Also, I don’t want it cluttering up my ovens - those are for pies! 😄 

 

One year, we had roast beef - i was lovely.  Usually though it's not possible, too many family members would mutiny.

[SKL]

One Thanksgiving my folks had spaghetti casserole, which everyone loves, to lighten the burden of cooking all day long.  My dad was not a happy camper, so they went back to turkey.  (My dad does most of the work, so it's not him being demanding, he just feels like it isn't Thanksgiving without turkey.)

Edited November 28, 2018 by SKL

[scoutingmom]

This clip from the west wing is the best explanation I have, although it is about Scotch...

 

[regentrude]

6 hours ago, SKL said:

One Thanksgiving my folks had spaghetti casserole, which everyone loves, to lighten the burden of cooking all day long.  

See, the bolded is what I don't get. What mountains of food do people make that require cooking all day long? We start cooking after breakfast on Thanksgiving day and are ready to eat at 1pm. That's turkey, mashed potatoes, candied yams, Brussel sprouts with maple glazed pecans, celeriac root puree,  red cabbage, apple pie, blackberry crumble (ETA: and of course cranberry sauce - how could I forget. The bread I baked the night before, so didn't include in list). Enough food to feed 11 people and have leftovers. 4 hours start to finish.

ETA: This year we did a couple London broil and a turkey breast instead of the turkey, and that freed up enough time to go for an hour walk from 10 to 11, after the pie came out of the oven.

Edited November 28, 2018 by regentrude

[Lang Syne Boardie]

40 minutes ago, regentrude said:

See, the bolded is what I don't get. What mountains of food do people make that require cooking all day long? We start cooking after breakfast on Thanksgiving day and are ready to eat at 1pm. That's turkey, mashed potatoes, candied yams, Brussel sprouts with maple glazed pecans, celeriac root puree,  red cabbage, apple pie, blackberry crumble. Enough food to feed 11 people and have leftovers. 4 hours start to finish.

ETA: This year we did a couple London broil and a turkey breast instead of the turkey, and that freed up enough time to go for an hour walk from 10 to 11, after the pie came out of the oven.

 

I always wonder this, too. I think people aren't used to cooking. It's not that they can't, or that they never do, but they don't prepare soups and stews, roasts, pies, loaves of bread, salads, as a regular part of the household routine. My family does, because of food allergies and a farm family background. Therefore, Thanksgiving dinner is not unfamiliar or difficult or time consuming to prepare. My menu is a whole turkey, mashed potatoes, gravy, green beans, cornbread, cranberry sauce, relish plate (celery, carrots, ranch dip, pickles, olives), deviled eggs, and pumpkin pies, for 12 people, and I can do it by myself by about 1:00. 

(Disclaimer: This is not a judgment of values or lifestyles. I think it's fine if people are able to eat simpler, more convenient foods, or dine in restaurants, and only care to cook as a hobby option on holidays.One way is not necessarily healthier, cheaper, or better. There are very good reasons for very different ways of life, and people sometimes live different ways during different seasons of their own lives.)

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, regentrude said:

See, the bolded is what I don't get. What mountains of food do people make that require cooking all day long? We start cooking after breakfast on Thanksgiving day and are ready to eat at 1pm. That's turkey, mashed potatoes, candied yams, Brussel sprouts with maple glazed pecans, celeriac root puree,  red cabbage, apple pie, blackberry crumble. Enough food to feed 11 people and have leftovers. 4 hours start to finish.

ETA: This year we did a couple London broil and a turkey breast instead of the turkey, and that freed up enough time to go for an hour walk from 10 to 11, after the pie came out of the oven.

*shrug* Whenever I host a big family dinner, I am in the kitchen all day long. Maybe it’s the number of people making the difference for you, or maybe you’re just faster about putting food together than I am. For Thanksgiving this year (I was not the host), there were 22-25 adults, but that was half what it would be were everyone there. 

I was the Christmas host a few years ago and I was busy continuously ALL day and guests weren’t even arriving until 6 or so. I grant you, some of that is not specifically cooking but is cleaning, too, or preparing in other ways such as setting up additional tables, chairs, dishes, etc. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

 

One year, we had roast beef - i was lovely.  Usually though it's not possible, too many family members would mutiny.

My BIL did that one year for Christmas. It was very good, but he also had some other “safe” meat in case the traditionalists mutinied. It may bave been a turkey; I don’t recall. The beef was much more delicious. 

For the last couple years, my sister’s “Thanksgiving” meal (not on TGing day) has been a mix of non-traditional foods. It’s fine, but personally I prefer the traditions, at least in the main. There are food allergies, though, so I think that was a partial motive. 

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

See, the bolded is what I don't get. What mountains of food do people make that require cooking all day long? We start cooking after breakfast on Thanksgiving day and are ready to eat at 1pm. That's turkey, mashed potatoes, candied yams, Brussel sprouts with maple glazed pecans, celeriac root puree,  red cabbage, apple pie, blackberry crumble. Enough food to feed 11 people and have leftovers. 4 hours start to finish.

ETA: This year we did a couple London broil and a turkey breast instead of the turkey, and that freed up enough time to go for an hour walk from 10 to 11, after the pie came out of the oven.

I make many mountains of holiday food. 

[Lawana]

I’m on team mountains of food. It is all of two days.

2 turkeys (one roasted, one spatchcodked, dry brined and smoked), cranberry sauce

Ham

deviled eggs

Cornbread dressing 

bread dressing

mashed potatoes and gravy (made with stock from roasted turkey wings, necks and spine in addition to pan drippings)

sweet potato soufflé 

brocolli rice casserole

macaroni and cheese

green been casserole

Asparagus with lemon vinaigrette 

Home made yeast rolls

apple pie

pumpkin pie

pecan pie

2 cheesecakes

It gets a little crazier every year lol. I am not a fast cook, and just doing the dishes for all that takes a mountain of time