Good resources on gender flexible and asexual?

[Pam in CT]

re timing of disclosure

That thread, honestly, has nothing to do with this thread.  That thread was about two people in the beginnings of a romantic relationship.  This thread is about a college student in a study group.  Which is basically not very different than a work environment.

 

Would you consider it appropriate for someone to walk into the office and say to the people they meet "Hi, my name is Jo, today's my first day.  I am asexual." as their introduction at work?

 

No I don't think that's appropriate.  Therefore, I don't think it's all that appropriate in a study hall.  I mean, this isn't some singles mingle....it's a study group for a college class. 

 

In short....disclosing that sort of information up front is appropriate in a personal, potential relationship situation.  Disclosing that sort of information up front is not appropriate in a profession or semi professional setting.
 

 

 

We've also had numerous threads on how working groups and working relationships can morph into romantic feelings.  So that 3-5 person coffee in a study group or work team can -- it has been argued in this space -- be the baseline of a relationship that later "buds" into a romantic one.

 

That actually isn't my response, though.  My response is, the timing of a personal disclosure is "owned" by the disclosing person, not the recipient who wants (as was the case in the other thread) or doesn't want (as it seems to be the case in this one) to hear it... exactly this moment, not earlier, not later.

 

 

 

[Caroline]

I have to ask.... ????

An engineering class about things like beams bending. I admit it's funny to say I met my husband in a class called deformable bodies.

[unsinkable]

In a dating relationship. Going out for coffee on a date. Personal dating relationship. When one person or the other wants to date. Not where you just met a group of colleagues that you will be working with professionally. One of which who, again, is 12.

Yeah, it really squicks me out to relate the 2 threads. A

 

A 12 yo isn't going to be a potential date.

[EmseB]

The idea that sexuality would be off limits in a psychology course is cracking me up, by the way. Or that personal identification would be off limits and inappropriate in psychology course. We had a thread here once where people made it clear that they don't think talking about sex is ever appropriate in any context - not even with the person you have sex with. But let me assure you that people - psychologists, philosophers, biologists, all kinds of social scientists, medical doctors, and many other people, study sex and sexuality in college.

 

Not off limits.  You're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying it's odd to bring it up as a relevant detail to acquaintances you just met in any college class.

 

Also, yes, I'm aware that all those people study sex and sexuality clinically and discuss them.  It would never occur to me that the the personal details of people in the class would be discussed. Again, I've taken a college-level psychology class and sex and sexuality was discussed in clinical terms because we do study it.

 

 

You never mention your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse? You never mention dating, or kids, or your life?

 

 

So you wouldn't be surprised if people called you by the wrong pronoun?

 

1) We're not talking about casual conversation about the people in someone's life or small talk. We're talking about introductions out of the gate. "Hi, I'm Sue and I'm a het female," just seems like a total non sequitur. Why assume anyone cares who you do or don't want to sleep with or date in a professional setting? It almost seems like an assumption that someone will inevitably be interested, so here's my details out of the gate...sort of conceited.

 

2) I have a first name that is gender ambiguous so this comes up surprisingly often.  No, I'm not surprised, and I simply correct the person.  I'm not sure why that matters. I have people assume I'm not who I say I am, or that they are not talking to the person whose name they have in front of them. It's slightly awkward and then everyone moves on.  But I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Why wouldn't I just say, "No, I'm a she," and move on?

[Dmmetler]

Basically, the term was curious to her-and the person is someone who she is finding easy to talk to. She probably would have looked it up regardless, but that makes it even more important to her to understand, because it's more likely they'd potentially have more conversation that isn't "OK, you read these three articles and I'll read these three..."

 

FWIW, she came home and read up on schools in Pakistan when she met a classmate who is a recent immigrant who is trying to get a US teaching license (and who is often quite surprised at class content). The only difference is that she felt confident she could find material on schools in Pakistan fairly easily with confidence that it was accurafe and non-offensive.

[Farrar]

Whether y'all think it's "appropriate" or "right" or whatever, I think you'll have to take some peoples' word that introductions like these to start off the class has become common in many university settings in the US, especially in humanities and social sciences courses.

[Caroline]

Basically, the term was curious to her-and the person is someone who she is finding easy to talk to. She probably would have looked it up regardless, but that makes it even more important to her to understand, because it's more likely they'd potentially have more conversation that isn't "OK, you read these three articles and I'll read these three..."

 

FWIW, she came home and read up on schools in Pakistan when she met a classmate who is a recent immigrant who is trying to get a US teaching license (and who is often quite surprised at class content). The only difference is that she felt confident she could find material on schools in Pakistan fairly easily with confidence that it was accurafe and non-offensive.

I think what she is doing is admirable. My DD does the same type of thing. Good luck to her. I always think our DDs could be friends if we lived closer.

[EmseB]

The only reason I responded was because someone said it was privilege to not have to tell everyone your sexuality from the jump at introductions. I disagree with that.  I don't think this means sexuality is never discussed in psych courses, or that it is an off limits topic or that wrong pronouns never come up or whatever else everyone is importing into my posts.

 

What happens in university humanities courses is, as far as it goes, often its own little bubble.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I just finished a psych degree. And no, nobody introduced themselves by sexual orientation or attitude to gender. We were more concerned with grappling with stats, frankly. I think it's weird to be talking personal details in class.

 

Yeah really I never encountered this either in any psych class and in no gender studies class.  Probably the most personal thing anyone shared was in a course called "Psychology of Women" a few people mentioned they knew women with breast or ovarian cancer.  I can't recall how that came up, but that's about as much as I remember within the realm of somewhat personal.

[goldberry]

The OP mentioned gender fluid.  I agree that just announcing "I'm asexual" seems a bit odd, since that might not be likely to come up.  But if you bring up the gender thing in order to clarify how you would like to be addressed, then adding the asexual element seems more like just an additional clarification.  

[goldberry]

I can tell you that my DD21, a senior at a state university, has NEVER told me that anyone has ever introduced themselves on the first day of class with their name and sexuality preference.  

 

It was accompanying a gender issue.  Gender issues affect how a person is addressed.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that announcing what pronouns you prefer, if it out of the ordinary, or even if it is ordinary, to be quite different than stating your sexual preferences.  I wouldn't blanche if someone announced the latter, but I would think (but not say outloud) that it was weird and over sharing for the context. 

[Wheres Toto]

In a dating relationship. Going out for coffee on a date. Personal dating relationship. When one person or the other wants to date. Not where you just met a group of colleagues that you will be working with professionally. One of which who, again, is 12.

 

But in a college setting people often become friendly enough that many would consider it romantic long before they ever get to the point of that official first date.  Not to mention, dating relationships among students who met in a class is not unusual at all.  So, making sure this information is available right from the start to people who may be considered potential romantic partners or may be considering you a potential romantic partner makes perfect sense.

 

ETA:  I don't know about dmmetlers daughter, but my oldest could easily pass for 17-19 years old when she was 12.  Unless she announced her age, most wouldn't think twice.  In fact, on her dance teams they were very surprised when she talked about not yet being in high school when she was in 6th grade.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Where's Toto?

[Wheres Toto]

I just texted my dd to ask her.  She got her psychology degree from a large, semi-urban, extremely liberal college with many LGBTQ organizations, clubs, support programs, majors, minors, graduate programs, task forces, health services, etc.    

 

Yes, it came up all the time.  Not just in her psych classes (she was also very involved in dance, and theatre).  It was a not uncommon way for someone to introduce themselves.

[katilac]

Probably the most personal thing anyone shared was in a course called "Psychology of Women" a few people mentioned they knew women with breast or ovarian cancer.  I can't recall how that came up, but that's about as much as I remember within the realm of somewhat personal.

 

 

Your work, not your identity, is the only thing relevant in class, imo.

 

Where did y'all go to school, lol? I got my BA in the deep south, in the dark ages, and personal information was all over the place. Definitely in a student-only study group, and often in class itself. Sometimes the personal information came via essays or class discussions, sometimes it came via chatting. We knew that this person had tried LSD, and that person had been in an abusive relationship. In one class, my gay classmate had a crush on the same guy that I did (neither of us knew him, we adored from afar). We speculated endlessly on who was out of luck, because we didn't know if he was gay or straight. This was 1985 in a small southern town, and "bisexual" did not occur to either of us, lol. 

 

It was the same when I took grad classes in Tennessee in the early-ish 90s. 

 

It's the same now for my two kids, at two different universities in two different states. 

 

It's the same for my cousins off in the frozen north, in two different states. 

 

It was the same in every job I ever had, in three different states. 

 

The introduction is somewhat different (although I agree that it's quite common to mention these things in smaller groups, or when invited to do so in a larger group), but I can't imagine any group spending substantial time together and NOT sharing any personal information, whether it's school or work. A person can diligently avoid gossip, but it's still hard not to overhear this and that. 

[poppy]

The only reason I responded was because someone said it was privilege to not have to tell everyone your sexuality from the jump at introductions. I disagree with that.  I don't think this means sexuality is never discussed in psych courses, or that it is an off limits topic or that wrong pronouns never come up or whatever else everyone is importing into my posts.

 

What happens in university humanities courses is, as far as it goes, often its own little bubble.

 

I didn't mean privilege =to not have to tell everyone your sexuality from the jump at introductions.

I meant privilege = "I can't see why you would need to declare your sexuality when you introduce yourself though. Sounds a bit precious to me."

 

Someone thinks it's unimaginable and slightly distasteful. That is living in a bubble of "this isn't a real issue" that people outside the norm don't share and never get the luxury of experiencing .  If you never have to think about something that is, to many others, an  daily emotionally fraught issue because of how other will treat you and react to you .... that is privilege.

[justasque]

I don't think the OP mentioned whether the intro was class-wide or just in the small working group.  

It occurs to me that if the teacher, in a psych class, asked for introductions, it might be a proactive move on the part of any student who has an identity or past experience that might be covered as a topic in the class, to find an opportunity to reveal that identity/experience up-front to the teacher and fellow students.  In that way, the teacher/students have the heads-up that when the topic comes up, it is not theoretical but personal to someone in their presence, and they should remember that when speaking about said topic.  

Have you ever been in the room when someone brings up gay people, or women who have had an abortion, or "those crazy people who homeschool", or some other minority group, and starts saying negative things about that group (assuming it doesn't apply to anyone in the room), when you know that someone in the room is part of the group?  It is not only potentially awkward, but it can get ugly, fast.  

I can understand why, in a psych class where such things may come up, someone may want to gently remind the group that this topic will not be theoretical for them.

 

I'm not saying that everything that may result in awkwardness should be mentioned in a simple round of introductions.  That would take up the whole class period and then some!  And not everyone will want to reveal their personal details to the group at all, ever, of course.  

But - for some - again - it can be a proactive move of self-defense.  

[justasque]

Yeah, it really squicks me out to relate the 2 threads. A

 

A 12 yo isn't going to be a potential date.

 

I am assuming the person in question introduced themselves to the entire class (as part of a "go around the class and introduce yourself" exercise), or to their small group (again, as part of a general round of introductions), not to the OP's 12-year-old in particular.  It wouldn't surprise me if the introducer was not aware that there was someone in the room who was 12, especially if the intros had not yet gotten around to the OP's daughter.  

 

And, of course, to flip this, a 12 year old taking a college class might decide to be up-front about their age so as to put other people on notice about it, or they may decide to keep it to themselves for any number of reasons.  So I don't think we can assume they were aware of the OP's dd's age.

 

And, really, how many of us have said things in intros that we felt silly about later?  How many of us sit there, waiting for our turn, thinking about what we should and should not say, changing our mind several times as those ahead of us gave their responses?  Not too long, not too short.  Friendly, but not gushing.  Professional, but not cold.  Open, but not too personal.  Sharing things that might be a touchpoint for the group (e.g., how many kids we have in intros at a nursing mom's group, our major in a group of other college kids, our personal struggle at a support group for such struggles, our religious beliefs/identity at an inter-faith working group), but not making it all about ourselves.  It's not easy!  

 

Layer that with our experience with intros - if we have been part of a community that regularly starts with intros (as can be the case at various support groups, certain kinds of coalition meetings, etc.) then we might have a standard intro that rolls off our tongue pretty easily (since we've done it a bazillion times), which we might not immediately think to edit perfectly for a different setting.  I can imagine that someone in the queer community who has done a lot of queer support group self-intros might just use their regular intro language out of habit, which would include their gender identity (which is appropriate in most settings), and not really consider (or over-think) whether they should drop the "asexual" part that they regularly (and appropriately) include in the other settings in which they are used to doing intros.

 

 

[katilac]

All I can say is that dh and I are both hardcore teachers. Tell us your name, so we can use it during class, but other than that, no, you don't have to share anything except the work 

 

Do you teach STEM classes? Because sharing some personal information is often part and parcel of certain humanities classes - I'm thinking of the required composition course(s) in particular, which often feature personal writing, plus writing exercises and discussions that frequently pull out personal information. 

[Kerileanne99]

Basically, the term was curious to her-and the person is someone who she is finding easy to talk to. She probably would have looked it up regardless, but that makes it even more important to her to understand, because it's more likely they'd potentially have more conversation that isn't "OK, you read these three articles and I'll read these three..."

 

FWIW, she came home and read up on schools in Pakistan when she met a classmate who is a recent immigrant who is trying to get a US teaching license (and who is often quite surprised at class content). The only difference is that she felt confident she could find material on schools in Pakistan fairly easily with confidence that it was accurafe and non-offensive.

This would be Alex. Information is how she generates empathy. When you say 'a potential friend', I am imagining you meaning a comrade in the class, someone she feels a bit open with, able to talk openly. Not that she wants a way to open a dialogue, she just wants to understand and know what WOULD be considered offensive or rude.

I think, that for these kids, information is power. It does NOT mean they plan to have in-depth conversations about personal sexuality...it means it is a way to develop understanding, empathy, common bonds with people. They NEED this. And if it does result in involved conversations, more power to them for managing to take that to the next level.

My kiddo panics/freaks out when information is hidden or euphemized...but thrives when it is available. It steadies her, reassures her.

[Tanaqui]

Honestly, if the first thing dd says in her first uni class is 'Hi, I'm a lesbian.' I'll roll my eyes so hard they'll fall out. (It's actually more likely to be 'Hi, I'm vegan' and I'll roll my eyes even harder.) That stuff is for outside class. Trust me, your lecturer isn't paid enough to care about your sexualities, unless this is a human sexualities class, and maybe not even then.

 

Okay, but it sounds to me like this was an icebreaker session. Maybe in your classes you dive right in, but that's not true in every class. In some classes, they start their first session with introductions and meeting each other. And maybe you're not paid enough to care, but the assumption is that the other students will care for free.

[foxbridgeacademy]

You can tell her that probably half the class feels the exact same way, down to the part about not wanting to look like a "dumb kid". (The other half is suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect.)

 

 

Some of us call that being the "Self Narrating Zoo Exhibit" :)

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Amy in NH]

I can tell you that my DD21, a senior at a state university, has NEVER told me that anyone has ever introduced themselves on the first day of class with their name and sexuality preference. And I assure you, she would have told me. I can also say that neither DH nor my sister, who graduated in 2012 and 2013, have ever mentioned this either. I will take their word that it isn't common on the very large and well known campuses they have been at.

This IS a common way to introduce yourself in class study groups according to my 22yo university student (year five out of a five year engineering program) at a large school in the center of a big city. I guess they're all different.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Amy in NH

[Pen]

OP, Did all or many of the students share their gender identity and sexual orientation in class intros? Or was this person unusual in that?  And what were the directions given by the instructor on what to share--if there were instructions given?

 

I have no issue with your dd looking things up about these subjects if that interests her.  Your first posts, though, seemed to indicate that she was worried about making a faux pas or seeming immature herself in not knowing about this area.  and that I do not think is something she should worry about.

 

The point of rule 34, I think, is that any search could lead into pornography, but really, I don't think this subject will likely do so on something like wikipedia or other common places to look for quick, basic info on something. 

[Twolittleboys]

I read most but not all of the comments (so sorry if I missed something important) but here is where I fall on the disclosure thing:

 

Generally, I am very private and would not mention anything really personal unless necessary but I kind of can see it with the gender neutral/fluid thing. I mean if it is really important for you to be addressed in a certain way you have to say something because how else would people know? Kind of like saying, my name is Penelope but please call me Nel because I hate my actual name. Also, if the appearance of the gender fluid person is such that it is difficult to tell whether they are male/female it can be difficult for others to know how to act (most people hate to be taken for male if they are female or the other way around). Telling them straight up might be easiest.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

in the north east (where a lot of liberals live)

 

I graduated from college in 1996.

 

I don't recall any introductions in any class. 

Where did y'all go to school, lol? I got my BA in the deep south, in the dark ages, and personal information was all over the place. Definitely in a student-only study group, and often in class itself. Sometimes the personal information came via essays or class discussions, sometimes it came via chatting. We knew that this person had tried LSD, and that person had been in an abusive relationship. In one class, my gay classmate had a crush on the same guy that I did (neither of us knew him, we adored from afar). We speculated endlessly on who was out of luck, because we didn't know if he was gay or straight. This was 1985 in a small southern town, and "bisexual" did not occur to either of us, lol. 

 

It was the same when I took grad classes in Tennessee in the early-ish 90s. 

 

It's the same now for my two kids, at two different universities in two different states. 

 

It's the same for my cousins off in the frozen north, in two different states. 

 

It was the same in every job I ever had, in three different states. 

 

The introduction is somewhat different (although I agree that it's quite common to mention these things in smaller groups, or when invited to do so in a larger group), but I can't imagine any group spending substantial time together and NOT sharing any personal information, whether it's school or work. A person can diligently avoid gossip, but it's still hard not to overhear this and that. 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Although thinking about this some more, what I do remember is talking about how people in minority groups often define themselves by their minority characteristic(s).  For example, we did exercises in class where the teacher would tell us to write a description of ourselves.  She pointed out that white people generally don't list "white" as one of their defining characteristics, but black people do.  So I guess this might not be odd.  I'm not one to give out information about myself in general unless I get to know someone, but not everyone is like that.

 

 

[Dmmetler]

According to DD, it comes up occasionally, but usually in throw out comments like a girl bemoaning that she just broke up with her boyfriend and a good man is hard to find, and a guy commenting "I hear you, sister-I'm looking for Mr. Right, too!"

 

Having said that, even though I never did introductions in the classes I taught, I don't know that I ever had a semester where some student didn't come into class talking excitedly about some change in their life. It might be "I'm getting married!" Or "l lost my virginity" or "I just met the most awesome guy" or "I'm gay and I want everyone to know it". Appropriate? Maybe not, but common, yeah. The idea that instructions to introduce yourself to your group would trigger someone talking about their sexuality doesn't surprise me.

 

At this point, people rarely seem to pick up on DD's age until she tells them. It's unlikely this student knew. Even if DD had introduced herself already, she tends not to give her exact age unless asked-she just says she's a concurrent college student. Of course, I got asked for a hall pass as a graduate student doing research at a middle school, so it goes both ways :).

[Tanaqui]

Hrumph. Don't believe in icebreakers either, not for adults. 

 

What's so wrong with 'Good morning. Nice to see you all here. I am Mrs Poet and I'll be teaching your course. Today we will look at the sestina; before we get started, some housekeeping.'

 

Nothing's wrong with it, but there are clearly different philosophies about this first-day-of-school thing - and I don't think either philosophy ultimately results in less learning by the end of the term.

[JanetC]

You might check their Twitter or Facebook profile. Many list their preferred pronoun there.

[nixpix5]

I imagine that there will be different amounts of personal sharing based on geography as well as the particular course. I haven't had this occur as of yet in any college class or work environment but I could see how as younger people matriculate we will begin to see more of this. In particular because to young people, college is both training for future careers and social/dating experiences and there is more to navigate now and to consider.

 

Personally, it seems appropriate to mention pronouns and a bit attention seeking to tell people who you do or don't care to have sex with unless it has something to do with a topic. It seems random but to each their own. I would have a head scratching moment if someone said they were asexual or if a girl said she was straight when introducing herself.

[Bootsie]

According to DD, it comes up occasionally, but usually in throw out comments like a girl bemoaning that she just broke up with her boyfriend and a good man is hard to find, and a guy commenting "I hear you, sister-I'm looking for Mr. Right, too!"

 

Having said that, even though I never did introductions in the classes I taught, I don't know that I ever had a semester where some student didn't come into class talking excitedly about some change in their life. It might be "I'm getting married!" Or "l lost my virginity" or "I just met the most awesome guy" or "I'm gay and I want everyone to know it". Appropriate? Maybe not, but common, yeah. The idea that instructions to introduce yourself to your group would trigger someone talking about their sexuality doesn't surprise me.

 

 

I have been in the college classroom--either as a student or an instructor since 1981, and I have never had a classmate or a student come into class and announce "I lost my virginity" or "I'm gay and I want everyone to know it."  

 

I do have students introduce themselves in classes that are small enough to allow for it to be done in a timely manner.  I can hear them pronounce their names and learn a bit more about them; plus this is something they will need to do in a work/business setting and part of a business school education, I believe, is developing some of these skills.  A person's sexuality and gender identification has never been mentioned in these introductions.  (It is hard enough trying to learn the names of all of the students; I can't imagine also trying to learn what set of pronouns each one wants to have used)   

 

It has not been an issue where I am teaching now, but at a previous school I did have students who introduced themselves in a way that would not be considered professional or that did not set a tone for a positive learning environment; I was getting comments like "I am Sally and I like to get drunk and party."   I had to emphasize to introduce themselves in a way that they would want to be known by their future colleagues.  

[justasque]

I have been in the college classroom--either as a student or an instructor since 1981, and I have never had a classmate or a student come into class and announce "I lost my virginity" or "I'm gay and I want everyone to know it."  

...

It has not been an issue where I am teaching now, but at a previous school I did have students who introduced themselves in a way that would not be considered professional or that did not set a tone for a positive learning environment; I was getting comments like "I am Sally and I like to get drunk and party."   I had to emphasize to introduce themselves in a way that they would want to be known by their future colleagues.  

 

Your examples reminded me of two "introduction" incidents in my time as a student.  The second example reminded me of my high school health class.  The elderly teacher gave an overview of the basic content of the class, and mentioned that we would be doing sex ed, and that it might be a challenging topic that would be awkward to discuss, as the material would be quite unfamiliar to us, but we would get through it.  We then did introductions - our name and something about ourselves.  When his turn came, the student in front of me excitedly declared, "My name is Maurice, and I'm going to be a dad in October!"  The teacher practically got the vapors.

 

Your first example reminds me of a philosophy class I took at an Ivy university.  By about the third week, a group of us - three or four girls, if I remember correctly - became friendly and started to get to know each other by chatting a bit before and after class.  Talk turned to boys (one girl had parents who expected her to only date Chinese boys who spoke Mandarin and she was struggling with that), when another of the girls mentioned that she had slept with the professor after the previous class.  

[bibiche]

Your first example reminds me of a philosophy class I took at an Ivy university... another of the girls mentioned that she had slept with the professor after the previous class.

LOL. OMG, that is so Ivy League. Harvard didn't even explicitly forbid sexual relationships between students and their profs until 2015!

[Tanaqui]

 When his turn came, the student in front of me excitedly declared, "My name is Maurice, and I'm going to be a dad in October!"  The teacher practically got the vapors.

 

LOL! You know, he could've benefited from some sex ed a little earlier than that class! (Which I do hope covered contraception.)

 

[Joker]

I think it would be fine for your dd to ask about pronouns. Pronouns are very important to some and I know ds would have an issue with those who still mistake him for a female to use the wrong ones. He would have to point it out because it is a big deal and important to him. I don't know why your dd would need to ever address the asexual part. 

 

I don't get why it's looked at strangely to be asked how one wants to be addressed. I don't get why it's weird if someone makes it known early on they want to be addressed by certain pronouns, including they/them. Ds has a lovely friend who we refer to as they/them and I would hate to think of all the times we would have been upsetting them by not using the preferred pronouns because they felt in unacceptable to share with us early on. It hurts no one. 

 

Thankfully, ds' teachers had zero issues referring to him as he/him before he had it legally changed. I guess his teachers have just been extraordinary to be able to keep it all straight and be able to then just focus on learning. 

[Joker]

Ones gender identity is extremely relevant in class if they are continually having to deal with being called the wrong pronouns and mistaken for someone they are not. It can definitely interfere with their learning. I would think a good teacher would want to help the learning process instead of hinder it. 

[mellifera33]

Maybe the student wanted to avoid an "It's Pat!" situation, so put all of the gender info out there at the beginning?

[Bluegoat]

I've come around to the philosophy which says 'maximise time on topic to the nth degree, because people are paying for this.'

 

But yes, different ideas. Different students. For every student who needs an ice breaker to feel comfortable sharing in class, and a tutor or lecturer to listen and respond, there's a student like me who just wants to hit her head on the desk so hard when the icebreaker comes out, because it's a massive waste of time. 

 

If I knew a class was going to do an icebreaker, I would skip the first class.  Waste of time.

 

Anyway - if people think they need to say their pronouns, fine, though I am not totally on board with unusual ones as a concept.

 

I don't think announcing your sexual interests in a  class introduction is appropriate.  Which is not at all the same kind of thing as having it come up in conversation or some other types of setting, or even if it really pertains to the work the class does at some point..  Of course university students talk about all kinds of stuff in settings where there is personal conversation.

 

I think a great thing for university kids to learn is that their personal experience is kind of irrelevant in an academic setting - they are not little kids who need people to watch out and manage things for them, and their feelings shouldn't impact the work of the class.  And, you don't need all your stuff out there for everyone in order to be understood and appreciated.  On the contrary, there's real value in a kind of privacy where you get to know intimate aspects of people as you get to know them more personally - that way, the information happens in the context of a person, rather than the information becoming the stand-in for the person.  You can be yourself without everyone knowing everything.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Bluegoat

[Haiku]

So far as 'gender flexible' goes (which makes zero sense, sorry, but let's be polite because it costs nothing )

Well, you already failed at the polite part when you dismissed the person's identity as nonsensical.

[nixpix5]

If I knew a class was going to do an icebreaker, I would skip the first class. Waste of time.

 

Anyway - if people think they need to say their pronouns, fine, though I am not totally on board with unusual ones as a concept.

 

I don't think announcing your sexual interests in a class introduction is appropriate. Which is not at all the same kind of thing as having it come up in conversation or some other types of setting, or even if it really pertains to the work the class does at some point.. Of course university students talk about all kinds of stuff in settings where there is personal conversation.

 

I think a great thing for university kids to learn is that their personal experience is kind of irrelevant in an academic setting - they are not little kids who need people to watch out and manage things for them, and their feelings shouldn't impact the work of the class. And, you don't need all your stuff out there for everyone in order to be understood and appreciated. On the contrary, there's real value in a kind of privacy where you get to know intimate aspects of people as you get to know them more personally - that way, the information happens in the context of a person, rather than the information becoming the stand-in for the person. You can be yourself without everyone knowing everything.

This.

[justasque]

If I knew a class was going to do an icebreaker, I would skip the first class.  Waste of time....

 

You would skip the entire first class because the teacher took ten minutes to have the students tell each other their names?  Obviously intros don't make sense in a 300-student chem class, but I can think of many classes where discussion of the material is expected - and indeed might be the bulk of each class session.  (Think of a lit class, or history class, or seminar of some sort, where students are expected to discuss the assigned reading.)  A basic "tell us your name and your major" or "tell us your name and why you wanted to take the class" or "tell us your name and whether you've studied this topic before" would do exactly what it was designed to do - "break the ice" so that students will feel comfortable plunging into discussion with each other.

[Pam in CT]

You would skip the entire first class because the teacher took ten minutes to have the students tell each other their names?  Obviously intros don't make sense in a 300-student chem class, but I can think of many classes where discussion of the material is expected - and indeed might be the bulk of each class session.  (Think of a lit class, or history class, or seminar of some sort, where students are expected to discuss the assigned reading.)  A basic "tell us your name and your major" or "tell us your name and why you wanted to take the class" or "tell us your name and whether you've studied this topic before" would do exactly what it was designed to do - "break the ice" so that students will feel comfortable plunging into discussion with each other.

 

 

A lot depends on class size, obviously... but even back in a prior millennium, at my small liberal arts college where nearly all classes had fewer than 15 students and gender fluidity was not public domain vocabulary... it was totally common for professors to go around the room for 2-sentence introductions, where are you from, what is your major kind of thing.  Which took less than three minutes out of the three hour seminar, so skipping it out of disdain for wasting precious class time would... waste a lot of precious class time.

[Tanaqui]

Wait, is name appropriate or not? You seem a bit confused :P

 

At any rate, whether or not you think it is appropriate, you are much older than these students. You have years more experience and knowledge, and hopefully you are old enough to realize you don't know everything. (I remember the days when I knew everything. It was great!)

 

Again, they're getting used to figuring out what they should disclose and when. This is a learning process. They're still learning. And it's already happened, and the sky didn't fall, and the entire class hasn't been derailed, and the OP's daughter learned something new.

[Haiku]

 

At any rate, whether or not you think it is appropriate, you are much older than these students. You have years more experience and knowledge, and hopefully you are old enough to realize you don't know everything. (I remember the days when I knew everything. It was great!)

 

Yep. Like it or not, norms change. I have kids aged 14-23 and discussing sexuality and gender just ain't no big thing for them and their friends. Heck, I'm old and even *I* don't have a problem with someone telling me their sexuality or gender identity if they feel it is important to them. It's not up to me to decide what they feel is relevant.

 

I also completely disagree with the idea that the only thing that matters in a class is the student's work. That was not my experience of college at all. I had human relationships with my professors (for the most part, maybe not so much in huge freshman lectures) and they didn't seem to view their jobs as "stand in front, impart knowledge, only know students' names." 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Haiku

[TrixieB]

Informing people about preferred prounouns isn't weird; it's weird announcing your a/sexuality in class.

 

The OP said that the student introduced themself in OP's dd's psych class small group, and that the student is also in the dd's study group.

 

IMO that doesn't equate to making an announcement in class - or at least, not making an announcement to the whole class.

[Bluegoat]

You would skip the entire first class because the teacher took ten minutes to have the students tell each other their names?  Obviously intros don't make sense in a 300-student chem class, but I can think of many classes where discussion of the material is expected - and indeed might be the bulk of each class session.  (Think of a lit class, or history class, or seminar of some sort, where students are expected to discuss the assigned reading.)  A basic "tell us your name and your major" or "tell us your name and why you wanted to take the class" or "tell us your name and whether you've studied this topic before" would do exactly what it was designed to do - "break the ice" so that students will feel comfortable plunging into discussion with each other.

 

No - that's an introduction.  "Hi, I'm Bluegoat, and my major is taxidermy - I've never studied bird calls before."

 

I understand icebreakers to be something beyond that - usually games or lists where you have to ask questions of others, something like that.  

 

Most of the classes beyond the first year I took were seminars with 5 to 15 students, and we never had problems discussing things because we didn't have "icebreakers".

[Tanaqui]

And really, let's say it's extremely inappropriate. Okay. Well, this is a life lesson: Sometimes in life, people will disclose things that they really ought to have kept to themselves. You'll be talking to a casual acquaintance and they'll let drop that they go to NA in the church by your house, or that they just recently found their birth family and now realize they're prone to breast cancer, or that their ex-wife (aka "the person you're actually friends with") is the reason their kid is a brat, or that they've recently switched religions/diets and you have GOT to try it for your spiritual/physical health, or that they're gay and do you wanna make something of it, or that they have a really cute rabbit and you, the person they met five minutes ago, must surely want to see 100 pictures of the rabbit. (All examples taken from real life.)

 

Sometimes this happens in a work environment. Whether it should or shouldn't, it does. And these kids are going to have to know how to deal with it. College is a fine time to practice not just whether or not to disclose personal information (and how much, and to whom, and when), but also how to react when people say things that you would've kept quiet about in that particular circumstance.

[Bluegoat]

Yep. Like it or not, norms change. I have kids aged 14-23 and discussing sexuality and gender just ain't no big thing for them and their friends. Heck, I'm old and even *I* don't have a problem with someone telling me their sexuality or gender identity if they feel it is important to them. It's not up to me to decide what they feel is relevant.

 

I also completely disagree with the idea that the only thing that matters in a class is the student's work. That was not my experience of college at all. I had human relationships with my professors (for the most part, maybe not so much in huge freshman lectures) and they didn't seem to view their jobs as "stand in front, impart knowledge, only know students' names." 

 

I don't think the idea that the importance of class is the work you do, and the possibility of having all kinds of closer relationships, are actually opposed.  I had dinner with my tutors once a week for two years when I was a student - I got to know him really well.

 

And as people develop various sorts of relationships, they learn all kinds of things about each other.  

 

But that's rather different than expecting the class to be interested in anything about your personal life.  Class time is where you discuss the text, what its about, you learn from someone who is an expert and try and think about it rationally.  You respect the fact that there are a group of people there all with their own needs, you don't hog the time of the class or spend it persuuing things that are mostly only for yourself rather than anyone.  

 

You talk about your own issues, if you need to, after class.  The pub or the dining hall, or maybe even tutorial,, is where you talk about it in a more freeform kind of way, maybe how you feel about it, you have a different kind of argument.  THat's where you get to know about people's personal life.  And sure, that comes back into the class with you to an extent, but that's not where you spend time on that.

[Bluegoat]

I took a class as an adult with a guy who was always oversharing.  Generally personal problems and trying to get people to buy from the MLM he sold.  I kind of wish he's just told us about his sexual interests and left it at that.