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Can we talk about "healthy" food?


Moxie
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This isn't about schools. I love the schools my kids attend. This is about general ideas about health.

 

Our state is really cracking down on food in schools. We're no longer allowed to bring in food for parties. School lunches have been revamped, all the way down to the advertising we're allowed to accept.

 

I look at the list of approved foods and...ugh. Granola bars, various crackers, yogurt (Go Gurts), Lara bars (nut free), fruit and veg (but store bought only due to allergens), bagels, string cheese. Nuts aren't on the list. Eggs and jerky aren't on the list. Lunch meat isn't on the list.

 

My kids will happily eat most of the approved snacks but I would never call them healthy. I think keeping kids blood sugar sky high all day, every day, is setting them up for a lifetime of weight and health issues.

 

Am I crazy?

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Is this a list of foods that you are limited to for snacks for your own child?  If it is, I have an issue with it regardless of anyone's take on the "health" qualities of the foods on the list.  

 

But yes, there are so many interpretations of what constitutes "healthy" foods and the interpretations change so often...that list contains foods that were thought to be "healthy" 5-10 years ago and are now suspect.

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What are the purchased lunches like?    Are they trying to get people to buy lunch instead of bring from home?

 

I don't understand some of the guidelines.  Gogurt is the only approved yogurt?  Not plain unsweetened?   Homegrown fruit is not OK because of allergens - what does that mean?  Lunch meat - does that mean deli turkey?  Can a kid bring a turkey sandwich on whole wheat bread if the turkey is from a bird roasted at home, not bought at the deli counter or in a pack of Oscar Meyer cold cuts?

 

Eggs?  I know there are people allergic to eggs.  But is that something that can affect them if they don't eat it?  I thought not, but would be happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

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I wouldn't consider those snacks healthy, though I suppose they're better than cupcakes and brownies, etc. But really, I don't think kids need snacks at school at all. Breakfast at home, lunch at school, and if they need another snack in the afternoon, they can have it at home.

 

The school my kids attended in 8th grade allowed for any fruit or veggies as a snack. I had no problem with that.

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I look at the list of approved foods and...ugh. Granola bars, various crackers, yogurt (Go Gurts), Lara bars (nut free), fruit and veg (but store bought only due to allergens), bagels, string cheese. Nuts aren't on the list. Eggs and jerky aren't on the list. Lunch meat isn't on the list.

  

My kids former K-8 school is nut free. Granola bars have nuts too so we had to make sure we didn't pack any granola bars with nuts for our kids recess and lunch.

 

Homegrown fruit is not OK because of allergens - what does that mean?  

...

Eggs?  I know there are people allergic to eggs.  But is that something that can affect them if they don't eat it?  I thought not, but would be happy to be corrected if I am wrong.

The homegrown fruit and vegetables may be due to fear of cross contamination from the home kitchen. My kids school didn't allow any homegrown/home baked food for class parties but do allow for kids lunch bags.

 

Eggs might be for the lower elementary? I know my kids school was lots stricter for K-2nd as some only realized they have food allergies then and kids do swap food for fun. They had a young student allergic to peanuts nearly taking his classmate's PBJ sandwich which let to parents asking for a food allergy room for their kids for recess and lunch. The parents reasoning is that the younger kids would swap food while 3rd grade and up would hopefully be able to manage their food allergies better. I had seen kids swap food on field trips so it does happen.

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Is this a list for class snacks, or for kids' individual foods?

 

It sounds as though there are 2 separate issues.  One is that the school is wanting to promote food that's healthy, and I would say that a bagel or a sugary yogurt, while not at the top of my lists of healthy food, is above the cheetos and candy I've seen kids bring for snack.  

 

The other issue is allergies.  I've taught at schools before where parents of kids with allergies were given a list of foods that could be served for snacks, and were asked to read the labels.  So, I might have had permission to feed X brand of crackers, but not any others, even if Y and Z were free of the same allergens.  

 

The fruit thing is definitely about cross contamination.  You can bring in apples in a bag, but not apples you sliced on your cutting board that previously held gluten.  

 

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Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack. The fruit thing means that I can't cut up apples and bring them in, I have to buy them cut up.

 

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

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Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack. The fruit thing means that I can't cut up apples and bring them in, I have to buy them cut up.

 

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

 

You look at granola bars, yogurt, crackers, fruit and vegetables and see poison?

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<snip>

 

The fruit thing is definitely about cross contamination.  You can bring in apples in a bag, but not apples you sliced on your cutting board that previously held gluten.  

 

This still makes no sense to me. 

 

ETA: Moxie answered the question about the apples. 

 

And no, I don't see poison.  I don't see super healthy food, but to me it is not poison.

Edited by marbel
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To me, this list is mostly empty carbs. I think kids need protein to keep going. There is no value in crackers or pretzels other than eating a "whole grain" 🙄 And filling an empty belly. It bugs me that the list of suggested "healthy snacks" is mostly sugar and carbs.

Edited by Moxie
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Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack. The fruit thing means that I can't cut up apples and bring them in, I have to buy them cut up.

 

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

We are Paleo and have lots of allergies in our home. Outside of the fruit/veggies we don't eat anything on that list, but I wouldn't say it was poison.

 

Personally, Outside of nuts, I think this accomodating for allergies is overboard. I don't know any parent of a severe allergy kid that lets them eat food not provided by them. My son is older now but I always provide food for parties/events/field trips. He will read labels and if there is something he can have then he sees it as a bonus. I have a hard time finding safe food, there is no way I would ever expect another parent to carry my burden, nor do I trust them to know all the different derivatives of corn.

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Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack. The fruit thing means that I can't cut up apples and bring them in, I have to buy them cut up.

 

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

 

Poison???

I do not consider fruit or vegetables or crackers or string cheese poison. or gogurt. We eat these things.

I see nothing wrong with these as snacks. Far better than the usual cupcakes and cookies.

 

(And seriously, how much does a snack matter in the big picture?)

 

ETA: Pretty sure the reason for gogurt vs regular yoghurt is that they can be eaten without having utensils.

Edited by regentrude
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To me, this list is mostly empty carbs. I think kids need protein to keep going. There is no value in crackers or pretzels other than eating a "whole grain" 🙄 And filling an empty belly. It bugs me that the list of suggested "healthy snacks" is mostly sugar and carbs.

 

It's a snack, for heaven's sake. Not a balanced meal. Carbs provide energy and are easily digestible. Kids need that.

And  you said the list does allow fruits and vegetables - so what's the problem? 

Edited by regentrude
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To me, this list is mostly empty carbs. I think kids need protein to keep going. There is no value in crackers or pretzels other than eating a "whole grain" 🙄 And filling an empty belly. It bugs me that the list of suggested "healthy snacks" is mostly sugar and carbs.

 

I would agree with you if this is the complete approved food list, for lunches, as I first thought.  

 

For snacks, I don't think it's great, but I think it's OK.    I agree that it is mostly carbs.  For kids, it's probably not a big problem.  (It would be a big problem for me.)

 

How often are you to bring snack foods to school?  Is this a daily thing, or just for certain special occasions?

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Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack.

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

  

I don't see poison, and the list is better than all the food coloring laden food that was served when my kids were in public school. They served many food items with green dye for St Patrick's Day, orange dye for Halloween.

 

To me, this list is mostly empty carbs. I think kids need protein to keep going.

My oldest and me don't do well with carbohydrates. This is a group snack situation. I can pack extra packs of pasteurized milk for him for his protein if I want to because milk is his favorite food. His teacher had never questioned him taking his 240ml milk carton from his lunch bag to join the group snack session. Besides string cheese has protein too and is on your approved food list.
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I wouldn't consider those snacks healthy, though I suppose they're better than cupcakes and brownies, etc. But really, I don't think kids need snacks at school at all. Breakfast at home, lunch at school, and if they need another snack in the afternoon, they can have it at home.

 

The school my kids attended in 8th grade allowed for any fruit or veggies as a snack. I had no problem with that.

 

I sub in elementary schools. 5th grade doesn't eat lunch until 12:45pm. They arrive at school at 8:30. If they take the bus, they are likely leaving their house around 8. So they are likely to have finished eating breakfast around 7:30. That's over 5 hours without eating. A long time for anyone's sugar levels to plummet without some kind of snack. Not great for behavior or schoolwork.

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I totally get what the OP is saying, but then again, I didn't take her to mean poison literally either.

 

Crackers are empty carbs, usually loaded with salt, pretty much the same as chips. Most store bought granola and yogurt is so high in sugar it's insane. And they take all the good fats out of things because we have a 90s era irrational obsession that low fat + whole grain must be healthy.

 

Cheese is pretty good, in general, but some of the more highly processed stuff kinda grosses me out and can be really high in sodium.

 

At co-op last year, the prek snack was fruit snacks, granola/cereal bar, and a juice box. I didn't care too much because it was a once a week treat for my kid, but a lot of kids eat that way every day, multiple times a day. It's a TON of sugar. It's not healthy even if oats and fruit happen to be on the label.

 

And we have plenty of treats in our house. I'm not a purist, but try to balance that by eating healthy most of the time. But in school, serving actually healthy stuff to a lot of kids just isn't convenient or practical. Much easier for a lot of reasons to give out pre packaged stuff.

Edited by EmseB
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Is this a list for class snacks, or for kids' individual foods?

 

It sounds as though there are 2 separate issues.  One is that the school is wanting to promote food that's healthy, and I would say that a bagel or a sugary yogurt, while not at the top of my lists of healthy food, is above the cheetos and candy I've seen kids bring for snack.  

 

The other issue is allergies.  I've taught at schools before where parents of kids with allergies were given a list of foods that could be served for snacks, and were asked to read the labels.  So, I might have had permission to feed X brand of crackers, but not any others, even if Y and Z were free of the same allergens.  

 

The fruit thing is definitely about cross contamination.  You can bring in apples in a bag, but not apples you sliced on your cutting board that previously held gluten.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack. The fruit thing means that I can't cut up apples and bring them in, I have to buy them cut up.

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

OK it makes a little more sense to me if this is for an occasional group snack. Honestly, for me... I'd rather there just be a set fee for those group snack events, and let the school handle them- that way they can get bulk ornwhole sale discounts, make sure the food is approved for the allergies or diet/nutrition/whatever, and store it at proper temps

 

  

Op, you asked if you were the only person who looks at the list and sees poison. I think the answer to that question is probably yes.

Well, I don't necessarily see "poison" but those precut and bagged apples are nasty. I don't know what borrid bitter stuff they put on them, but no one in my house can eat them. So even if it is perfectly harmless unicorn powder just as nature provided, it tastes like poison to me ;)

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I sub in elementary schools. 5th grade doesn't eat lunch until 12:45pm. They arrive at school at 8:30. If they take the bus, they are likely leaving their house around 8. So they are likely to have finished eating breakfast around 7:30. That's over 5 hours without eating. A long time for anyone's sugar levels to plummet without some kind of snack. Not great for behavior or schoolwork.

 

Well, the 10:30 lunch (noted above) and the 12:45 lunch you speak of is kind of crazy. How did we all do it (well, anyone who's 50-ish, anyway) when we were in school? There was no such thing as snacks in school my entire school career.

 

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I totally get what the OP is saying, but then again, I didn't take her to mean poison literally either.

 

Crackers are empty carbs, usually loaded with salt, pretty much the same as chips. Most store bought granola and yogurt is so high in sugar it's insane. And they take all the good fats out of things because we have a 90s era irrational obsession that low fat + whole grain must be healthy.

 

Cheese is pretty good, in general, but some of the more highly processed stuff kinda grosses me out and can be really high in sodium.

 

At co-op last year, the prek snack was fruit snacks, granola/cereal bar, and a juice box. I didn't care too much because it was a once a week treat for my kid, but a lot of kids eat that way every day, multiple times a day. It's a TON of sugar. It's not healthy even if oats and fruit happen to be on the label.

 

And we have plenty of treats in our house. I'm not a purist, but try to balance that by eating healthy most of the time. But in school, serving actually healthy stuff to a lot of kids just isn't convenient or practical. Much easier for a lot of reasons to give out pre packaged stuff.

Yes, this is what I meant. Not literal poison but not good. And, ugh, fruit snacks. Who in the world thinks gummy candy with some vitamin C added is a great idea for a snack?!?

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Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack. The fruit thing means that I can't cut up apples and bring them in, I have to buy them cut up.

 

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

 

So, I see poison. :leaving:

 

Okay, maybe a bit of an exaggeration. But, I don't give my kids yogurt with flavor, no granola bars, I don't remember the last time I bought crackers, bagels are a treat like twice a year, and they don't like string cheese. The prices of prepackaged fruits and vegs make me cringe, but at least they are there. Idk what my kids would eat in this situation. Well, they would eat the snacks, I guess, because that's just how it would be. 

 

The virtue of everything on the list makes sense in a school setting though, since it is easily portioned, no allergens, and I get that aspect of it. But it's not stuff that I would put together on my own for a list of "healthy". Relative to other stuff, yes. Healthy in its own right, there is some merit but not really by the stick I measure with.

 

I mean, we're not perfect. We eat at In-n-Out or Five Guys for treats, I have chocolate in the house and sprinkle it around the kids as necessary, lol. I have broken down recently and started to buy those apple sauce packs for car travel. I drink Starbucks and the kids see it, and we bake regularly. So I'm not a food zealot, really, just overly particular. 

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IME the school rules about what foods can be brought in are based upon health code safety considerations rather than based upon how much the item promotes overall health.  So, they become more concerned that someone may cut apples on a cutting board that has had raw meat on it than the content of what is in the packaged granola bar that has been prepared in a commercial kitchen.  

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It must be hard for schools to hit the middle of the road. Kids (and adults) have nut allergies, dairy intolerance and perhaps fruit issues.

But remember this is just an occasional treat when there is a group snack offered.

When my ds was in Kindergarten -eons ago - it was cupcakes, sugar laden with artificial color for every birthday party in the classroom. So I am glad to see that at least it has changed to granola bars and yogurt.

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Well, the 10:30 lunch (noted above) and the 12:45 lunch you speak of is kind of crazy. How did we all do it (well, anyone who's 50-ish, anyway) when we were in school? There was no such thing as snacks in school my entire school career.

 

 

Schools here don't do snack, but the teacher talk I witnessed (mom was a teacher) was that once the kids were too hungry, whether it was just before a late lunch, or at the end of the day after an early lunch, nothing was getting done. 

 

The timing issue (having too early or too late a lunch) is a school size thing. My elementary had about 1,000 kids, and my high school, 4,000. Those are typical sizes for the schools in my city. They have to cycle all those kids through the lunch room. There were 10:15 lunches in my high school. And you bet people were grabbing snacks from their lockers and eating them between periods! 

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Way back decades ago when I was in school, no classes allowed snacks ever.  The only exceptions were for the once a month birthday party that my elementary private school did for for all the kids with a birthday that month (so, in September we took one hour one afternoon to do a class party and every kid with a birthday in September got their name mentioned.)  When I was a senior in high school, I was pregnant and due at the semester.  I was having a hard time getting enough to eat, since my schedule had be doing high school part time and then working full time.  We had to get special permission at the school for me to bring a snack to eat in my 2 nd period class, and that required a note from a doc before they would do it.  It's kinda silly to me how it's so opposite now and it seems like people think kids need to have 24/7 access to food. 

 

I think kids who are eating a mostly carbs diet probably do need food every 2 hours.  I think kids who leave for school with 2 eggs scrambled in butter and a sliced up apple in their tummies can make it to 12 or 12:30 no problem.  For my small sample size of kids, this is certainly true.  My husband who has gotten a bee in his bonnet about taking the kids hiking almost every weekend this summer noticed clearly (and he is not the noticing sort...) the difference in their fatigue between when he gives them a muffin for breakfast and when I got up with the hikers and made them breakfast burritos (eggs, cheese, bacon, gf tortilla).  He said noon came and went before anyone even noticed that they might be getting hungry... despite having breakfast at 6:30.  

 

Schools are in the awkward place of dealing with kids with vastly varied home lives.  Telling the kids who had rice crispys that they need to go 5 hours without food just because the egg eaters can is awfully rough on those kids.  

 

 

 

 

Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack. The fruit thing means that I can't cut up apples and bring them in, I have to buy them cut up.

 

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

 

They are definitely not snacks I would consider as good brain or body fuel.  I'm not saying we never eat them- we do- but I recognize that they are not ideal.  I do think of sugar as poison... because science seems to be telling us just that.  So... while it might be slightly hyperbolic, I don't begrudge your use of the term!

 

 

To me, this list is mostly empty carbs. I think kids need protein to keep going. There is no value in crackers or pretzels other than eating a "whole grain" 🙄 And filling an empty belly. It bugs me that the list of suggested "healthy snacks" is mostly sugar and carbs.

 

Protein and Fat!

 

 

You think that kids need protein at every meal and every snack?  

 

 

If kids get protein and fat at every meal, they probably don't need snacks at all.  

 

It would never occur to me to give kids a mid-morning snack.  Mid-afternoon snack is very culturally rooted here and I like that additional "school day is done!" celebration feel, but we keep it quite small.  Again, the necessity of snacks is really dependent on what the kids have in their breakfast and lunch and dinner.  If it's all carbs all the time, then skipping snacks will be misery on those kids.  The schools need to meet kids where they are. 

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When I was at school, we had 1/3 of a pint of full-fat milk mid morning.  That seemed to keep us going.  This was taken out of schools by Margaret Thatcher when she was Education Secretary.  I still remember going on marches chanting 'Thatcher, Thatcher: milk snatcher' when I was eight.

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This is going to come out really snotty, but schools are often forced to... aim toward the lowest common denominator, if you will.

 

I personally do know many people who, when faced with the nut-free prospect, literally have no idea what to feed their kids. And I'm not even calling them stupid (I think many of them are rather smart, in fact,) but they can't figure out how to think outside of that particular box. They genuinely have to be told exactly what might be acceptable. And they typically want it to be as easy as pb&j.

 

My guess is parents who are used to tossing in chips/snack cakes and bring cupcakes to class have similar boxes.

 

I don't find the list you shared particularly "healthy", but I can't argue that it's *less healthy than what used to be considered adequate snack food.  

 

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I don't see any problem with the snacks listed. When you send your kids to public/private school, you are NEVER going to have everything just the way you want it.

Some elementary kids here get dropped off at school at 6:30am, and then they could have lunch anywhere between 10:30am and 1:15pm. So they really do probably need a snack.

Also, the school lunch foods in my district are all LOW CALORIE so it's no wonder that my own boys bring snacks when they get the school lunch, It's not enough food for them, and not enough calories. 

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Oh I totally agree there!  I think I bought those things once and ended up throwing them out. 

 

But, I am still not quite understanding the thing with the fruit and veg.  I used cherry toms as an example.....would cherry tomatoes in a ziploc baggie be allowed?  Or grapes?  Or bananas or those little easy peel oranges?  Or what about broccoli florets or celery or carrot sticks?  You can find those veggies pre cut in the stores, but they aren't necessarily going to come in a package that is great for bringing into school. 

 

 

I think the allergens thing is kind of crazy, really.

 

It is not like we don't see people getting sick, seriously so, from pre-bagged fruit and veg.  You really don't know who or what has touched that stuff. The stuff I see isn't guaranteed allergen free either - maybe brands elsewhere are?

 

I find it a bit weird, as a parent - now maybe it's because we don't have serious food allergies, I guess.  But if my kid was likely to have an anaphylactic reaction from cross-contamination, he or she would not be sharing the group snack.  If it was a more regular sort of allergy, hives or whatever, I would not be worried about the possibility of cross contamination from cherry tomatoes someone grew at home.  It wold be a drag if it happened, but not a disaster.

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Oh I totally agree there! I think I bought those things once and ended up throwing them out.

 

But, I am still not quite understanding the thing with the fruit and veg. I used cherry toms as an example.....would cherry tomatoes in a ziploc baggie be allowed? Or grapes? Or bananas or those little easy peel oranges? Or what about broccoli florets or celery or carrot sticks? You can find those veggies pre cut in the stores, but they aren't necessarily going to come in a package that is great for bringing into school.

 

In our local schools that have this rule, uncut fruit in the original packaging is allowed. So, a plastic crate of grape tomatoes, or a bag of apples, or a bunch of bananas.

 

Also fruit or veg that was washed/cut/packaged before you bought it.

 

I agree that the bagged sliced apples are gross, but cutie oranges, bananas, and baby carrots are all easy and well received.

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It reminds me of the food I was given in the hospital after giving birth.

 

I am confused. If this is supposed to be for parties, then the kids will not find it fun enough, so why bother? Maybe everyone should just bring their regular snacks and there should be non-food ways of celebrating?

 

If the school has such a limited snack list, maybe they should provide and everyone pays a fee?

 

Last year my son had one day a month where they watched movies, wore pyjamas and ate candy, Doritos, cupcakes and a few strawberries. I was not happy with that! But I don't think your list is a big improvement. There is way more sugar in the schools than when I was growing up!

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Protein and Fat!

 

 

 

If kids get protein and fat at every meal, they probably don't need snacks at all.  

 

It would never occur to me to give kids a mid-morning snack.  Mid-afternoon snack is very culturally rooted here and I like that additional "school day is done!" celebration feel, but we keep it quite small.  Again, the necessity of snacks is really dependent on what the kids have in their breakfast and lunch and dinner.  If it's all carbs all the time, then skipping snacks will be misery on those kids.  The schools need to meet kids where they are. 

I have tried and tried to get rid of mid-morning snack here. Part of that is DS4's fault. He is not a breakfast eater. He just does not like to eat right away in the morning. I have tried and tried to convince him to eat breakfast because it would make my life so much easier. But it's not happening. So mid-morning snack stays in our house.

 

OP, I don't see poison. I see "not as nutritious as I'd like for snack everyday." However, this doesn't seem to be an everyday thing. So it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

Signed,

Someone who just bought a large tub of sweetened plain yogurt (they were out of unsweetened)

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We do first breakfast and second breakfast here, so yes to a snack. One of my kids doesn't like to eat early in the AM, so a tiny few bites is all I can get him to eat. By 9:30, he is actually hungry. If I just feed him then, the other two are hungry for lunch earlier than he is. By feeding them all Second breakfast, I can get a few solid hours of school out of them without anyone melting down from hunger.

 

If I had a classroom of kids, I could see wanting that.

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I have tried and tried to get rid of mid-morning snack here. Part of that is DS4's fault. He is not a breakfast eater. He just does not like to eat right away in the morning. I have tried and tried to convince him to eat breakfast because it would make my life so much easier. But it's not happening. So mid-morning snack stays in our house.

 

OP, I don't see poison. I see "not as nutritious as I'd like for snack everyday." However, this doesn't seem to be an everyday thing. So it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

Signed,

Someone who just bought a large tub of sweetened plain yogurt (they were out of unsweetened)

 

My 3yo routinely eats part of his breakfast when he gets up, and part a bit later.  It sits in a designated spot int he kitchen that he can get to with a stool.  I don't consider it a snack because it's just the rest of his breakfast, but maybe I should.  

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I think the allergens thing is kind of crazy, really.

 

It is not like we don't see people getting sick, seriously so, from pre-bagged fruit and veg. You really don't know who or what has touched that stuff. The stuff I see isn't guaranteed allergen free either - maybe brands elsewhere are?

 

I find it a bit weird, as a parent - now maybe it's because we don't have serious food allergies, I guess. But if my kid was likely to have an anaphylactic reaction from cross-contamination, he or she would not be sharing the group snack. If it was a more regular sort of allergy, hives or whatever, I would not be worried about the possibility of cross contamination from cherry tomatoes someone grew at home. It wold be a drag if it happened, but not a disaster.

The bagged fruit thing is all about liability.

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