Can we talk about "healthy" food?

[regentrude]

I think kids who are eating a mostly carbs diet probably do need food every 2 hours.  I think kids who leave for school with 2 eggs scrambled in butter and a sliced up apple in their tummies can make it to 12 or 12:30 no problem.  

If kids get protein and fat at every meal, they probably don't need snacks at all.  

 

Not every child is able to tolerate a protein and fat heavy meal at 6:30am.

I personally would puke if I had to eat fried eggs first thing in the morning.

 

It would never occur to me to give kids a mid-morning snack. 

 

When I was growing up, kids and adults always had a midmorning meal: the second breafast..

First breakfast at home at 6:30, then a second breakfast at school/work around 9am in a 15 minute break between periods/breakfast break at workplace. Kids and adults packed sandwiches, apples, carrots; they could get milk at school. The amount of food we had for 2nd breakfast is comparable to an American pack lunch. Lunch as the warm main meal around 12:30.

(I think I consumed 80% of the day's calories before 3pm)

The second breakfast was cultural standard. Nobody ate fried eggs in the morning before going to work; that's not traditional eating pattern.

Edited August 24, 2017 by regentrude

[regentrude]

I'm curious how large the schools are that have lunches as early as 10:30!  My high school (approx 2000 students) managed with just two lunch periods, 12 and 12:40 or something along those lines.  

 

Our elementary school with 500 students started lunch at 10:45. It's more a question of how large a room they have for students to eat in.

[fralala]

To me, this list is mostly empty carbs. I think kids need protein to keep going. There is no value in crackers or pretzels other than eating a "whole grain" 🙄 And filling an empty belly. It bugs me that the list of suggested "healthy snacks" is mostly sugar and carbs.

 

I'm probably going to have different opinions about healthy snacks from you based upon the quotation marks around whole grain here. And my vegan friends are appalled that I was required to drink milk at school lunches. I think guidelines like this are probably striving to walk the line between the science of nutrition, what they feel kids will actually eat, what kind of snacks are non-messy (and on all of these I think you could make a good argument for some kinds of jerky) and parental preferences/beliefs.

 

Kids at the school where my sister teaches bring in sleeves of Oreos for their snacks. I know why: they probably have parents who, like mine, didn't grow up with modern American-style snack foods and supermarkets, and so would take us shopping and ask us, "Okay, what do the other kids bring for snacks?" because they wanted to help us fit in. And so we would get the junkiest crap. I had Hostess cupcakes and donuts daily as a kid. Yuck! But even those weren't poison: not only did I survive to adulthood and get good grades, but I'm a fairly fit grown-up who prefers kale salad and salmon to sugary snacks. There is hope!

[teachermom2834]

I'm a fan of protein based and low carb snacks and I see things like pretzels as void of nutritional value. But there are just realties to deal with in terms of allergies, convenience, mess, and expense.

 

I love jerky as a snack but it is expensive. Sending in enough jerky for a class snack? That is just not going to be economically realistic for most families.

[marbel]

So aside from the quality of the food, I see the snack need as a scheduling problem.

 

As has been said, some people can't eat breakfast early in the morning.  I do best when I can be up and moving around for at least an hour or two before I can eat.  Sure, I can - and sometimes have to - force myself to eat earlier. I am not unique in this way - lots of people can't eat right away, even if they didn't eat late the night before.  Many people, even kids I know, can easily go 14 - 16 hours without eating if it's overnight when they're sleeping.  I don't think it's healthy for people to eat when they aren't hungry, though I know sometimes it can't be helped.  

 

So I think a mid-morning snack break in school sounds great for those kids who simply can't eat enough right before school to hold them.  Call it "second breakfast" and it sounds better. :-) 

 

I'm sure logistically it's very hard.  There will be kids who will overeat because it's a scheduled thing, and will eat whether they are hungry or not.  There's never going to be a way to make it work well for everyone if everyone has to be offered the same things (as opposed to having them bring their own snack/2nd breakfast from home).   

[Bluegoat]

I'm probably going to have different opinions about healthy snacks from you based upon the quotation marks around whole grain here. And my vegan friends are appalled that I was required to drink milk at school lunches. I think guidelines like this are probably striving to walk the line between the science of nutrition, what they feel kids will actually eat, what kind of snacks are non-messy (and on all of these I think you could make a good argument for some kinds of jerky) and parental preferences/beliefs.

 

Kids at the school where my sister teaches bring in sleeves of Oreos for their snacks. I know why: they probably have parents who, like mine, didn't grow up with modern American-style snack foods and supermarkets, and so would take us shopping and ask us, "Okay, what do the other kids bring for snacks?" because they wanted to help us fit in. And so we would get the junkiest crap. I had Hostess cupcakes and donuts daily as a kid. Yuck! But even those weren't poison: not only did I survive to adulthood and get good grades, but I'm a fairly fit grown-up who prefers kale salad and salmon to sugary snacks. There is hope!

 

I find the milk thing odd.

 

I mean, obviously if you are lactose intolerant or allergic it's no good, and vegans would have ethical issues with t.

 

But for a lot of kids, a glass of full fat milk is probably a pretty healthy and satisfying mid morning snack.  It seems to be on the bad food list these days, though.

[Tina]

I think they're trying to come up with ideas a mom can run in the store and grab conveniently.  And what might be affordable?  Tho aren't Larabars a bit pricey to buy for a classroom of kids?  (No, I've never bought them.)

[heartlikealion]

To me, this list is mostly empty carbs. I think kids need protein to keep going. There is no value in crackers or pretzels other than eating a "whole grain" 🙄 And filling an empty belly. It bugs me that the list of suggested "healthy snacks" is mostly sugar and carbs.

 

Yeah. This is something I wish I had known when I was younger. I was going through life not eating enough protein imo. Now I am more conscious of it. Like if I eat pancakes I would like to pair it with an egg or bacon or something. I used to eat cereal for breakfast all the time and now I will sometimes eat "lunch" for breakfast to get protein.

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Not every child is able to tolerate a protein and fat heavy meal at 6:30am.

I personally would puke if I had to eat fried eggs first thing in the morning.

 

 

When I was growing up, kids and adults always had a midmorning meal: the second breafast..

First breakfast at home at 6:30, then a second breakfast at school/work around 9am in a 15 minute break between periods/breakfast break at workplace. Kids and adults packed sandwiches, apples, carrots; they could get milk at school. The amount of food we had for 2nd breakfast is comparable to an American pack lunch. Lunch as the warm main meal around 12:30.

(I think I consumed 80% of the day's calories before 3pm)

The second breakfast was cultural standard. Nobody ate fried eggs in the morning before going to work; that's not traditional eating pattern.

 

Would it be right to say then that, culturally, most people front-loaded calories and ate a lighter supper?  Because I certainly think that's a pattern that could work well.  I would love to be able to serve a very light evening meal, even if that meant adding in a substantial snack.  But our evening meal is our family meal and my husband's only hot meal, so I feel a bit stuck with that.  

 

I did not eat breakfast at all during high school.  Didn't feel like eating in the AM.  I managed without food until noon, no snack.  Everyone's appetite and tastes are different.  In my own kids, big high fat breakfast means better concentration and no snack requests.  

[vonfirmath]

When I was at school, we had 1/3 of a pint of full-fat milk mid morning.  That seemed to keep us going.  This was taken out of schools by Margaret Thatcher when she was Education Secretary.  I still remember going on marches chanting 'Thatcher, Thatcher: milk snatcher' when I was eight.

 

Agreed. When I was in school the milk was full fat. Now it is 1% or Nonfat.  (This is America)

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by vonfirmath

[regentrude]

So aside from the quality of the food, I see the snack need as a scheduling problem.

 

I'm sure logistically it's very hard. 

 

I am not sure why American schools make it so complicated.

Back home, snacks are not scheduled. Students have 10 minute breaks between 45 minute periods; one of the breaks is longer (15-20 minutes); at midday, there is a much longer scheduled break.

During these breaks, they can use the bathroom or drink and eat what they brought or run around or talk. I have never understood why kids' bodily needs are so heavily regulated in US public schools- eating on schedule and going to the bathroom together as a class (yes, even in 6th grade!) is ridiculous. Give them regular breaks which they need anyway, and let them take care of their eating and bathroom needs then.

 

[QueenCat]

Well, the 10:30 lunch (noted above) and the 12:45 lunch you speak of is kind of crazy. How did we all do it (well, anyone who's 50-ish, anyway) when we were in school? There was no such thing as snacks in school my entire school career.

 

 

Cafeterias only hold so many students at a time. They have to spread them out. I am definitely in that 50ish category. I had snacks in elementary school. In the 1970's. I don't remember what we did in middle school. In high school, between 2nd & 3rd period, there was a longer break between classes (15-20 minutes). The cafeteria had snack booths where you could buy quick snacks if you wanted, during that break. I graduated in the early 1980s.

 

And just because something used to be done a certain way doesn't mean that it should stay that way. Sometimes things change for the better.

[vonfirmath]

Oh I totally agree there!  I think I bought those things once and ended up throwing them out. 

 

But, I am still not quite understanding the thing with the fruit and veg.  I used cherry toms as an example.....would cherry tomatoes in a ziploc baggie be allowed?  Or grapes?  Or bananas or those little easy peel oranges?  Or what about broccoli florets or celery or carrot sticks?  You can find those veggies pre cut in the stores, but they aren't necessarily going to come in a package that is great for bringing into school. 

 

 

I would expect cherry tomatoes in a store packaging would be fine. So would grapes, bananas, mandarin oranges, apples, and those small carrot sticks.

 

Broccoli florets, carrots, celery you cut up yourself at home would not be fine.

[QueenCat]

Agreed. When I was in school the milk was full fat. Now it is 1% or Nonfat.  (This is America)

 

They have both full fat and 1% in the schools I work in, here in the US.

[Laura Corin]

Agreed. When I was in school the milk was full fat. Now it is 1% or Nonfat.  (This is America)

 

On the other hand, when I started school, Britain was only fourteen years past the end of post-WWII food rationing.  The country hadn't boomed as the US did in the 50s.  Calorie deficits were definitely a problem.  The issues now are probably different.

[regentrude]

Would it be right to say then that, culturally, most people front-loaded calories and ate a lighter supper?  Because I certainly think that's a pattern that could work well.  I would love to be able to serve a very light evening meal, even if that meant adding in a substantial snack.  But our evening meal is our family meal and my husband's only hot meal, so I feel a bit stuck with that. 

 

In Germany, definitely - the warm cooked meal has always been the midday meal. Working adults usually eat at their work place. Dinner was bread and cheese and ham and maybe a salad.

Now things change; in recent years, more families cook in the evenings - but when I grew up that was unheard of, unless you had a special occasion. 

We still eat like this; I cook in my lunch break, and DH comes home to eat; we are lucky that this is logistically feasible.

[vonfirmath]

I'm curious how large the schools are that have lunches as early as 10:30!  My high school (approx 2000 students) managed with just two lunch periods, 12 and 12:40 or something along those lines.  

 

The PreK students at our school start lunch at 10:30. THen the K students, then 1st, then 2nd. Every class starts their lunch time about 7 minutes off of the class before them. I don't think they are still serving lunch at 12:40 though.

 

It probably has something to do with the size of the cafeteria.

 

The next door Elementary school has a similar schedule for 3rd-5th.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by vonfirmath

[Soror]

I serve my kids eggs & bacon/sausage(turkey) about 3 times a week, they still eat morning snacks. It is so annoying, I'm wondering how they can still be hungry!!!!

 

I usually eat most of my calories before dinner time, I still serve a hot meal but I generally eat less calories at dinner than I do at breakfast.

 

re: the listed snacks- I don't find all of those things to be the healthiest but then again there are worse things. Also, I think kids need far more carbs then us adults. Now, the levels of carbs in the SAD not the best for a lot of people but that is more about what kids are eating at home IMO.

 

fwiw I've eaten a mostly paleoish diet for the last 12 years my kids eat far more carbs than I do.

Edited August 24, 2017 by soror

[vonfirmath]

They have both full fat and 1% in the schools I work in, here in the US.

 

Is it a public school? There is no full fat milk available here. I thought it was because of those new national standards for school lunches.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by vonfirmath

[happypamama]

To me, this list is mostly empty carbs. I think kids need protein to keep going. There is no value in crackers or pretzels other than eating a "whole grain" 🙄 And filling an empty belly. It bugs me that the list of suggested "healthy snacks" is mostly sugar and carbs.

I agree with you. I don't think I'd quite call it poison, but it is a fair amount of empty carbs and a lot of sugar.

[mamaraby]

I think kids who are eating a mostly carbs diet probably do need food every 2 hours. I think kids who leave for school with 2 eggs scrambled in butter and a sliced up apple in their tummies can make it to 12 or 12:30 no problem.

I think you can't generalize that owing to your small sample size. We're a carbohydrate, moderate protein intake, low fat family (the kids eat more fat than I do) and yet no one is eating every two hours here. We're actually not big snackers here - never were when the kids were little either. At least, nowhere near the extent other parents I know have been.

 

As for the OP, no I don't feel those foods on the list are poison. That's a fairly loaded term, imo. Aside from ethical concerns I am not a fan of language that labels food as "poison" or "clean." It's food. Some foods are better choices than other foods, but one is not any more virtuous based upon their food choices compared to the choices other people make.

[QueenCat]

Is it a public school? There is no full fat milk available here. I thought it was because of those new national standards for school lunches.

 

Yes. Last year, I worked in 2-3 different districts (started in 3, chose to drop to 2), in 6-8 schools. They all had full fat milk, low fat milk, dairy free milk. Some had chocolate milk.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I think you can't generalize that owing to your small sample size. We're a carbohydrate, moderate protein intake, low fat family (the kids eat more fat than I do) and yet no one is eating every two hours here. We're actually not big snackers here - never were when the kids were little either. At least, nowhere near the extent other parents I know have been.

 

As for the OP, no I don't feel those foods on the list are poison. That's a fairly loaded term, imo. Aside from ethical concerns I am not a fan of language that labels food as "poison" or "clean." It's food. Some foods are better choices than other foods, but one is not any more virtuous based upon their food choices compared to the choices other people make.

 

True enough about generalizing.  

 

I dunno, I like Michael Pollen's idea of dividing up the grocery store into the "Food section" and the "Edible food-like section".  

[magnificent_baby]

I would have no problem with that list at all. If I did, I would get permission to send my own daily snack, without the allergens to be on the safe side. We had a child in our district that went into anaphylaxis from accepting a snack from a friend in the classroom. Student was on life support for several days. Our district is super strict about nuts now, as they should be.

 

Also, as a former school nurse in that district, I would cringe to have my kids eat something that was prepared at a students home, so prepackaged is more than fine with me! 

[MercyA]

Definitely not poison. Unlike jerky and sandwich meat containing nitrates or nitrites.  ;)

[Guest]

What I'm thinking is that most of the kids eating those snacks are eating reases peanut butter puff cereal or pop tarts for breakfast. So yeah, it's outrageous.

 

Whatever anyone's particular eating ethos (milk or no, high protein or no, whatever) it must be said that a LOT of American kids do not eat in anything resembling a healthy way. Sugar, sodium, corn, soy. Sugar sodium corn soy. Sugar sodium corn soy. Day after day.

 

It's a huge problem.

Edited August 24, 2017 by OKBud

[wintermom]

I would have no problem with that list at all. If I did, I would get permission to send my own daily snack, without the allergens to be on the safe side. We had a child in our district that went into anaphylaxis from accepting a snack from a friend in the classroom. Student was on life support for several days. Our district is super strict about nuts now, as they should be.

 

Also, as a former school nurse in that district, I would cringe to have my kids eat something that was prepared at a students home, so prepackaged is more than fine with me! 

 

This is really the issue in a public school system with specifically shared snacks. There are so many restrictions because of allergies, that there is very little choice.

 

We're not talking about a well-balanced, healthy diet here. These are foods for a specific purpose in a specific situation. Having a specific list would probably be a blessing to many families - especially the ones who have children with serious allergies.

 

The "poison" for children could be the foods they have a reaction to because of contamination.  

Edited August 24, 2017 by wintermom

[marbel]

I am not sure why American schools make it so complicated.

Back home, snacks are not scheduled. Students have 10 minute breaks between 45 minute periods; one of the breaks is longer (15-20 minutes); at midday, there is a much longer scheduled break.

During these breaks, they can use the bathroom or drink and eat what they brought or run around or talk. I have never understood why kids' bodily needs are so heavily regulated in US public schools- eating on schedule and going to the bathroom together as a class (yes, even in 6th grade!) is ridiculous. Give them regular breaks which they need anyway, and let them take care of their eating and bathroom needs then.

 

Are we not talking about elementary school here?  

 

I would expect middle school and up allow kids to manage their own food needs.  Since elementary schools don't have breaks between classes, there would be no time, other than recess, to have something to eat.  People have already pointed out that kids trading snacks can be problematic for young kids.  I don't know about bathroom breaks; how did that come into the conversation?    When I was a kid, we could be excused to go to the bathroom as needed. 

 

Perhaps in Europe things are different, but we are talking about a school in the US. 

 

I don't remember snacks in elementary school, but that was a long time ago now.  Definitely by junior high (as we called middle school) and high school, there were breaks between classes and people could eat or not eat whatever they brought from home.  I do remember my high school selling freshly-baked french bread with lots of butter during morning breaks.  The scent of the bread wafted through the school.  It seemed that almost everyone bought some.  This was in the mid-70s, in California.  One of my few fond high school memories.  :-)

Edited August 24, 2017 by marbel

[SparklyUnicorn]

Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack. The fruit thing means that I can't cut up apples and bring them in, I have to buy them cut up.

 

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

 

Uh yeah.  Not poison per se, but blood sugar crash and burn.

[Moonhawk]

So, I tend to view the health level of food on a spectrum, from dang near poison, completely devoid of nutrition, up to of course those "perfect" superfood type things, where things like tomatoes picked right off my own tomato vines might be.  And I find it strange that someone would consider a go-gurt to be closer to the "dang near poison" end of the spectrum than a fast food burger.  It is hard for me to understand being more particular about a 50 calorie yogurt than a 400 calorie fast food burger.  I am not saying anyone has to be perfect or anything, I certainly love me some McDs.  But that just seems to be a lopsided vilification of food. 

 

Agree on this, it does seem a bit silly to judge certain foods more harshly than others. It all depends on the stick you measure by. If calories are My Thing, then that burger is not going to fly. But if no food colorings or a certain preservative is No Go, then the gogurt won't make the cut. (FTR, I've never had a gogurt, never looked at the ingredients; I'm just picky about yogurt in general and individual packs of any type is more expense than I like, so they just aren't on my radar.) On a Protein Thing, both are probably going to be acceptable. There is definitely a spectrum, and since each person has different needs, sensitivities, and focus, the stick will not be the same. This is one of the primary issues you are going to have with any group meal in an institutional setting. Or any setting, I guess.

 

I think for me one of the differences between the burger and the yogurt, in this example and in my daily life, is that the yogurt is supposed to be "normal" food, that is ok for daily consumption, or perhaps even more than once a day. It's a snack, which in my mind denotes that it is something casual, easily given without much thought or worry. The burger, on the other hand, is something had maybe once a month, maybe twice if I'm flush with cash or plans unexpectedly strand me in the city longer than expected. The bar of health has to be higher on the daily snacks than on the occasional treat because you have more snacks than treats, and they will have a larger overall effect on you. 1 yogurt may be "more healthy" than 1 burger, but 10 or 15 yogurts may have a net negative *on my stick* compared to 1 burger. (And, yes just to be clear, 1 yogurt would be more healthy than 10 or 15 burgers.)

 

On my earlier list, I was responding to the foods with my own heuristic that I've developed over time. If I looked at each individual offering, weighing its worth, checking the ingredients, etc., maybe my answer would be different. But, my initial reaction to the list is how I shop and how I eat day to day, because I don't currently want to put the effort into changing my heuristic and re-evaluating our food choices. 

 

Not trying to really villify the yogurt, it is a world better than the candy aisle. Spectrum of foods, you put it well. :)

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think you can't generalize that owing to your small sample size. We're a carbohydrate, moderate protein intake, low fat family (the kids eat more fat than I do) and yet no one is eating every two hours here. We're actually not big snackers here - never were when the kids were little either. At least, nowhere near the extent other parents I know have been.

 

As for the OP, no I don't feel those foods on the list are poison. That's a fairly loaded term, imo. Aside from ethical concerns I am not a fan of language that labels food as "poison" or "clean." It's food. Some foods are better choices than other foods, but one is not any more virtuous based upon their food choices compared to the choices other people make.

 

See you must just have a different body though because if I ate a high carb low fat diet I'd be starved all day long.  I know because I've tried.  Like some people eat oatmeal for breakfast.  I want to eat an elephant about 30 minutes after a bowl of oatmeal.  I have no idea why, but I guess that's just something odd about my body.

[Guest]

Ten grams of sugar to 2 grams of protein with only 70 calories. Safe to assume in gogurts case. [Average]

 

http://m.calorieking.com/foods/calories-in-yogurts-go-gurt-simply-yogurt-low-fat-average-all-varieties_f-ZmlkPTE2NTMxMQ.html

[Zinnia]

See you must just have a different body though because if I ate a high carb low fat diet I'd be starved all day long. I know because I've tried. Like some people eat oatmeal for breakfast. I want to eat an elephant about 30 minutes after a bowl of oatmeal. I have no idea why, but I guess that's just something odd about my body.

This is what happens to me with eggs or meat for breakfast. I am hangry within an hour. But grits or oatmeal? I am good until 1 or 2. I keep trying for this to not be the case (my dh is a big high protein guy), but it really does happen.

[prairiewindmomma]

We had snacks in the morning in elementary school (up until 6th grade).  We each got a box of milk, and my vegan Jewish friend brought his alternative milk from home. His mom made hemp or soy milk, back before you could purchase it in a small Midwest town.  Our milk was usually paired with a piece of fruit or something else.

 

My girls are at a public and a private school this year, respectively, in a different state than I grew up in.  They are allowed and encouraged to each bring a mid-morning snack.  The school asks that it be healthy in nature--actually, not a granola bar. :)  They would prefer it to be fruit or veggie based, non-messy.  They are also encouraged to keep a water bottle at their desk.

 

Birthday parties are not supposed to be celebrated with food in the classroom.  If group snacks are brought in, they are supposed to be commercially and individually packaged and whole grain.  Suggested items are popcorn, whole grain cereal bars, baked chips, whole grain animal crackers, low fat granola bars, and dried fruit. 

 

Milk choices: regular 1%, lactose free, and soy---none of which my dd should drink. 

 

I'm not a fan of Go-gurt, but I'm not freaked out about the list you give.  It's certainly better than the sugar cookies and cupcakes of yore.

[SparklyUnicorn]

This is what happens to me with eggs or meat for breakfast. I am hangry within an hour. But grits or oatmeal? I am good until 1 or 2. I keep trying for this to not be the case (my dh is a big high protein guy), but it really does happen.

 

I often don't eat breakfast at all.  I find I'm hungrier throughout the day!  I don't know what to make of that.  So yeah, my first meal is usually around noon time.

[mamaraby]

True enough about generalizing.

 

I dunno, I like Michael Pollen's idea of dividing up the grocery store into the "Food section" and the "Edible food-like section".

Except that Lara bars are dates and nuts - somewhat calorie dense, sure, but not poison by any stretch of an imagination. And pretzels and crackers are something I can make in my kitchen. Gogurt? It's sweetened yogurt. The things mentioned here aren't even close, imo to "edible food-like section." And even if they were? No one is suggesting these things make up the bulk of a school age child's food intake.

 

If people are bringing snacks to share with a classroom is anyone ever bringing in sliced turkey? This is a group snack, yes? A treat, correct? I'm not going to get all up in arms about Gogurt.

 

See you must just have a different body though because if I ate a high carb low fat diet I'd be starved all day long. I know because I've tried. Like some people eat oatmeal for breakfast. I want to eat an elephant about 30 minutes after a bowl of oatmeal. I have no idea why, but I guess that's just something odd about my body.

Then don't? People being different was kinda my point.. :p

Edited August 24, 2017 by mamaraby

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

 

Then don't? People being different was kinda my point.. :p

 

Uh yeah, but schools treat kids with a one size fits all plan.  Growing up I had a lot of miserable days because of being fed foods that made me feel starved.  I wasn't given options.  I wasn't treated like hey maybe I'm NOT like everyone else.

Either way, how much dang sugar does anyone need on any regular basis?  Since I pay close attention to sugar on labels, I can tell you the most ridiculous things have added sugar.  I've seen bags of frozen vegetables with added sugar!  It's ridiculous.

 

Gogurts and granola bars are pretty much like candy.

[FaithManor]

I think schools deal with realities related to the needs of hundreds of students that individual families can't really fathom. If they cut out most of the high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oil, msg laden foods and keep the life threatening allergens like nuts and shellfish at bay, then I think they deserve high praise. While one family might not consider the list healthy, that family also isn't dealing with 50 kids who have eating and texture issues, kids with specific dietary restrictions, etc. What is healthy for one kid, may not be for the next one.

 

I have a medically underweight kid so his diet looks very different from his older brother who has no metabolic disorders, and while the AHA would not consider it heart healthy, on the other hand, it is what is healthy for him given his issues. 

 

Additionally, while you may not think gogurt is a good choice, here is the reality. There  may be 15 minutes or even less for eating the snack, and a teacher likely has 30 kids and no aide. So he/she has the clean up, and if the school is trying to have green policies, that means all of the spoons have to be washed or at least transported to the kitchen IF there is a staff on hand to wash them. Given how much work they shovel off on teachers in my district, I can guarantee you that to save money, they'd make the teachers do the snack dishes.

 

Schools are trying to survive the insurmountable odds of caring reasonably well for ALL of the way too many students the average building has, and this isn't the seventies when parents were fine with their kids getting canned corn and hot dogs at every lunch, cupcakes for snacks. Just think of what the average thread on food is like HERE. Multiply that by hundreds of thousands of pre-school and elementary families across the nation. IF the school put only universally agreed upon foods on the snack or lunch list, what you'd end up with is kids being able to have celery, carrots, and water all.day.long. and nothing else. People would argue about fats, proteins, fruit, organic vs. conventional, GMO vs. not GMO, vegan, vegetarian, paleo, high carb, low carb, South Beach, Atkins, and inevitably there would be a handful of lunatics claiming that there is no such thing as a food allergy and proclaiming anyone whose kid has one is "a special snowflake". And this doesn't cover the juvenile diabetic children, the cystic fibrosis children, the failure to thrive children, the ones in foster care who never had anything except what came from a 7-11 until being taken into care and gag on EVERYTHING, and the ones with swallowing issues, and the anemic ones, and.....

 

I think we need to cut schools a bunch of slack on this. I blew the whistle loud and long back when our local elementary was giving kids pop tarts and chocolate milk for free breakfast! You bet I did. But once they hired a staff and decided to make pancakes and eggs, or french toast with strawberries and grapes, or oatmeal with bananas and berries, I didn't go down there and lecture them because I thought it was too high carb. Sometimes, you just need to meet in the middle.

Edited August 24, 2017 by FaithManor

[regentrude]

Are we not talking about elementary school here?  

 

I would expect middle school and up allow kids to manage their own food needs.  Since elementary schools don't have breaks between classes, there would be no time, other than recess, to have something to eat.  People have already pointed out that kids trading snacks can be problematic for young kids.  I don't know about bathroom breaks; how did that come into the conversation?    When I was a kid, we could be excused to go to the bathroom as needed. 

 

Perhaps in Europe things are different, but we are talking about a school in the US.

 

And I am voicing my opinion that American schools are nuts in many respects and that it would be entirely possible to do things differently.

It was the same in elementary back home: they break every 45 minutes, and if kids want to eat, they just eat. When we spent a sabbatical in Germany, my son was very surprised that it was not so prison like as his American ps.

I totally think kids should have frequent breaks in school and be in charge of their own eating, drinking and bathroom during those breaks. (But then, I also think a school day until eleven or noon, like back home, is entirely sufficient for elementary age kids....)

 

[prairiewindmomma]

I agree, Regentrude!

[regentrude]

I think schools deal with realities related to the needs of hundreds of students that individual families can't really fathom. If they cut out most of the high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oil, msg laden foods and keep the life threatening allergens like nuts and shellfish at bay, then I think they deserve high praise. While one family might not consider the list healthy, that family also isn't dealing with 50 kids who have eating and texture issues, kids with specific dietary restrictions, etc. What is healthy for one kid, may not be for the next one.

 

I have a medically underweight kid so his diet looks very different from his older brother who has no metabolic disorders, and while the AHA would not consider it heart healthy, on the other hand, it is what is healthy for him given his issues. 

 

Additionally, while you may not think gogurt is a good choice, here is the reality. There  may be 15 minutes or even less for eating the snack, and a teacher likely has 30 kids and no aide. So he/she has the clean up, and if the school is trying to have green policies, that means all of the spoons have to be washed or at least transported to the kitchen IF there is a staff on hand to wash them. Given how much work they shovel off on teachers in my district, I can guarantee you that to save money, they'd make the teachers do the snack dishes.

 

Schools are trying to survive the insurmountable odds of caring reasonably well for ALL of the way too many students the average building has,

I think we need to cut schools a bunch of slack on this. I blew the whistle loud and long back when our local elementary was giving kids pop tarts and chocolate milk for free breakfast! You bet I did. But once they hired a staff and decided to make pancakes and eggs, or french toast with strawberries and grapes, or oatmeal with bananas and berries, I didn't go down there and lecture them because I thought it was too high carb. Sometimes, you just need to meet in the middle.

 

This.

There's a lot of orthorexia in many threads on this board.

Let's keep things in perspective. School snacks are a tiny portion of what a kid consumes over the course of a year. Even school lunches only make 180 meals out of the 1,095 meals a child eats in a year (assuming, for simplicity, 3 meals a day) - that's only 16%. If you feed your kids what you consider healthy the rest of the time, they will be fine even if they eat at school.

Never before in history did we have so many choices and the luxury of optimizing nutrition to the degree we have today. I certainly didn't, growing up, and my parents' generation lived through famine. We could all chill a bit.

[Guest]

This.

There's a lot of orthorexia in many threads on this board.

Let's keep things in perspective. School snacks are a tiny portion of what a kid consumes over the course of a year. Even school lunches only make 180 meals out of the 1,095 meals a child eats in a year (assuming, for simplicity, 3 meals a day) - that's only 16%. If you feed your kids what you consider healthy the rest of the time, they will be fine even if they eat at school.

Never before in history did we have so many choices and the luxury of optimizing nutrition to the degree we have today. I certainly didn't, growing up, and my parents' generation lived through famine. We could all chill a bit.

The problem is that lots of kids are NOT being fed healthily for the other 84% of their meals and NO ONE is teaching them how to make healthy nutrition a priority.

 

We're talking public school which should, in general, aim to do the most good for the most people.

 

That people have starved in famines doesn't really have anything to do with the millions of American kids, most of whom attend ps, that eat way way way too much sugar (by almost anyone's metric).

 

Iow it's not about optimization of nutrition, it's about nutrition for the public at large in general.

[Bootsie]

This.

There's a lot of orthorexia in many threads on this board.

Let's keep things in perspective. School snacks are a tiny portion of what a kid consumes over the course of a year. Even school lunches only make 180 meals out of the 1,095 meals a child eats in a year (assuming, for simplicity, 3 meals a day) - that's only 16%. If you feed your kids what you consider healthy the rest of the time, they will be fine even if they eat at school.

Never before in history did we have so many choices and the luxury of optimizing nutrition to the degree we have today. I certainly didn't, growing up, and my parents' generation lived through famine. We could all chill a bit.

There are kids in my area that probably eat over 1/2 of their meals each year at the school.  They have breakfast and lunch regularly on school days and attend an after school program that serves dinner.  Then, there is a special program in the summer for lunch.  

[regentrude]

The problem is that lots of kids are NOT being fed healthily for the other 84% of their meals and NO ONE is teaching them how to make healthy nutrition a priority.

We're talking public school which should, in general, aim to do the most good for the most people.

That people have starved in famines doesn't really have anything to do with the millions of American kids, most of whom attend ps, that eat way way way too much sugar (by almost anyone's metric).

Iow it's not about optimization of nutrition, it's about nutrition for the public at large in general.

 

and they are trying. The list OP posted was pretty balanced. For kids who are fed junk at home, it's a vast improvement over what they get. For kids whose parents are very invested in nutrition, it won't do any damage.

What else are we expecting of the schools? They have to pick up the slack for so much parenting stuff that teachers can't focus on teaching because they have to play dietician and social worker.

[Bootsie]

And I am voicing my opinion that American schools are nuts in many respects and that it would be entirely possible to do things differently.

It was the same in elementary back home: they break every 45 minutes, and if kids want to eat, they just eat. When we spent a sabbatical in Germany, my son was very surprised that it was not so prison like as his American ps.

I totally think kids should have frequent breaks in school and be in charge of their own eating, drinking and bathroom during those breaks. (But then, I also think a school day until eleven or noon, like back home, is entirely sufficient for elementary age kids....)

 

I would be interested in your opinion on how this ends up impacting habits and behaviors as the children get older.  On the surface, it appears that the American students who have followed more rigid scheduling would be more accepting of there are certain places and times to eat and drink, and certain times that are not.  However, my (limited) experience is that it does not work out this way.  Taking U.S. students on international trips, I have found that they do not understand why they can't take their food and drink into lecture halls, why everyone isn't carrying their Starbucks with them as they run down the street, why the shopping carts don't have drink holders, etc.  

[Guest]

and they are trying. The list OP posted was pretty balanced. For kids who are fed junk at home, it's a vast improvement over what they get. For kids whose parents are very invested in nutrition, it won't do any damage.

What else are we expecting of the schools? They have to pick up the slack for so much parenting stuff that teachers can't focus on teaching because they have to play dietician and social worker.

Those things aren't being provided. It's what is allowed for any kids to bring in. So if you want to send in something you this healthier (and relieve the school of the burden of playing dietician), you can not.

[ktgrok]

I agree with you. I don't think I'd quite call it poison, but it is a fair amount of empty carbs and a lot of sugar.

 

But it's for a treat, not an every day part of the diet. It's for school parties, instead of chips and cupcakes. In that scenario, I'd find it find. Not for every day, but for party food? Sure. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

The problem is that lots of kids are NOT being fed healthily for the other 84% of their meals and NO ONE is teaching them how to make healthy nutrition a priority.

 

We're talking public school which should, in general, aim to do the most good for the most people.

 

That people have starved in famines doesn't really have anything to do with the millions of American kids, most of whom attend ps, that eat way way way too much sugar (by almost anyone's metric).

 

Iow it's not about optimization of nutrition, it's about nutrition for the public at large in general.

 

In my district there are so many that qualify for free or reduced lunch that they just give free lunch to everyone (and breakfast).  Breakfast is Big G cereals with fat free milk.  Every...single...day.  How is this healthy?  I don't trust the schools to feed kids healthy stuff cuz they don't.  But if I didn't have much money, what choice would I have?  I realize what a massive undertaking it is for a school to be expected to provide for all needs, but really what favor are they doing anyone?  I suppose cereal at least has vitamins and minerals AND kids will generally eat it.

[regentrude]

Those things aren't being provided. It's what is allowed for any kids to bring in. So if you want to send in something you this healthier (and relieve the school of the burden of playing dietician), you can not.

 

You can send whatever food you want for meals for your own child.

The OP's list was shared treats for a class party, where the teacher has no way of preparing food in a safe manner. I don't understand parents who feel the need to bring "something healthier" than fresh fruits and vegetables as a treat to a party. Shouldn't that suffice? I just don't get the OP's complaint. (And I would find slices of lunch meat as party treats very odd.)

Edited August 24, 2017 by regentrude

[Bootsie]

But it's for a treat, not an every day part of the diet. It's for school parties, instead of chips and cupcakes. In that scenario, I'd find it find. Not for every day, but for party food? Sure. 

When my kids were in PS, the number of "parties" made these treats an almost every day part of the diet.  They can start adding up quickly.  If you have 25 kids in the class each celebrating a birthday and bringing a treat that is already 25 out of 180 school days (and that doesn't count the fact that often you are ALSO invited to a birthday party for the child on a weekend which is again another cupcake..)  Then there is the Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Valentine's Day, Easter, Cinco de Mayo celebrations.  Also, add in the pajama movie day food, the 100th day of school celebration, the everyone brought their homework in popsicle celebration, the fundraising winner party..   the list went on and on..