Can we talk about "healthy" food?

[Daria]

Ok, so they could sent the whole 1pt plastic crate of cherry tomatoes, but not take half out and put them in a baggie? Or send like the big bag of broccoli florets, but not break it down into serving sizes? I am just trying to clarify in my mind :D

 

Yes, although you could take 1/2 the tomatoes out, put them in a bag, and send the other half to school in the basket/clamshell.

[Guest]

You can send whatever food you want for meals for your own child.

The OP's list was shared treats for a class party, where the teacher has no way of preparing food in a safe manner. I don't understand parents who feel the need to bring "something healthier" than fresh fruits and vegetables as a treat to a party. Shouldn't that suffice? I just don't get the OP's complaint. (And I would find slices of lunch meat as party treats very odd.)

Mea culpa. I thought the list was for daily snacks for your own kid!

[regentrude]

I would be interested in your opinion on how this ends up impacting habits and behaviors as the children get older.  On the surface, it appears that the American students who have followed more rigid scheduling would be more accepting of there are certain places and times to eat and drink, and certain times that are not.  However, my (limited) experience is that it does not work out this way.  Taking U.S. students on international trips, I have found that they do not understand why they can't take their food and drink into lecture halls, why everyone isn't carrying their Starbucks with them as they run down the street, why the shopping carts don't have drink holders, etc.  

 

I think most of the culture surrounding food is developed in families, not schools. I, for example, do not know anybody back home who eats from trays in front of the TV. I am sure these people exist, but the normal thing is to eat meals at a table from plates, with utensils. Children are taught to use utensils from toddlerhood on.

 

The notion that people other than babies need to have constant access to water is a cultural one that does not, historically, exist in Germany; there are, for example, no public drinking fountains, and cars did not have cupholders until recently, and shopping carts definitely don't -  because people drink at meals. The carrying of bottles and cups everywhere and the constant drinking even at inappropriate times is a fairly recent phenomenon inherited from the US.

In schools, kids get to eat and drink in the breaks between periods - not during class.

[FaithManor]

The problem is that lots of kids are NOT being fed healthily for the other 84% of their meals and NO ONE is teaching them how to make healthy nutrition a priority.

 

We're talking public school which should, in general, aim to do the most good for the most people.

 

That people have starved in famines doesn't really have anything to do with the millions of American kids, most of whom attend ps, that eat way way way too much sugar (by almost anyone's metric).

 

Iow it's not about optimization of nutrition, it's about nutrition for the public at large in general.

But here is the deal, the school cannot correct what the parent is unwilling to correct. The. end. And every time schools overreach and try to parent kids, try to get things changed in the home, everyone freaks out about government overreach.

 

The reality is that nutrition for the public at large is a problem for someone else and NOT the school. They have enough on their hands just trying to educate kids, and most of the time have a darn hard time managing that, without becoming the food police for every.single.family.

 

We need to get back to school being about math, language, reading, history, science, and writing and NOT about trying to fix every parental problem that comes down the pike. It is too much for that institution to bear.

 

And again, while you may claim that most American families aren't eating healthy the other 84% of the time, you really don't have that personal knowledge. Given this board of education minded bees can't agree on what's healthy, then you really can't make the case that you can decide for anyone else that the majority of families with children in the PS are eating unhealthy in their homes all the time, therefore it is incumbent upon schools to police food throughout the day. Additionally, I don't know how they'd police it because again, no one can actually agree on what is healthy anyway.

 

We can draw some basic conclusions about sugar consumption in the states, but Germany and Netherlands actually consume sugar on very high levels per capita, and yet have higher life expectancy than the US, and lower rates of all kinds of diseases. Citing sugar consumption alone is not useful.

[Bootsie]

Except it says fruit and veg ARE allowed.  Cuties, Bananas, pre cut/packaged bags of celery or carrot sticks, all those sorts of things would be allowed and I am pretty sure no one here would suggest those things are less healthy than a gogurt.

 

Also, I would think that since cheese sticks are allowed, other forms of prepackaged cheese would be too.  It would be something to ask about, but I can't imagine what the difference would be if you have a store selling other cheeses like that.  Same thing with yogurt pouches....Gogurt is a brand name, but I can't imagine a school turning down a different brand pouch provided it's pre packaged and easy clean up.  Lots of yogurt companies are starting to put together some sort of yogurt pouch. 

I don't like when prepackaged foods are allowed but freshly prepared food (or freshly washed and cut fruits and vegetables) is not allowed.   All of the packaging is not good for the environment.  Also, I think it sends a subtle message to kids that food prepared and packaged in a factory is good and freshly prepared food is to be avoided.  DD who is in college prepared whipped cream this past week and had several people in the dorm who were amazed that whipped cream could be served in any way except from a can.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I do understand preferring packaged for this situation.  Not everyone is good about food safety for one thing.  Also, it is much harder to control for allergy issues.  So while freshly prepared might be nicer/better for various reasons, I do understand why they insist on packaged.

 

 

[regentrude]

I don't like when prepackaged foods are allowed but freshly prepared food (or freshly washed and cut fruits and vegetables) is not allowed.   All of the packaging is not good for the environment.  Also, I think it sends a subtle message to kids that food prepared and packaged in a factory is good and freshly prepared food is to be avoided.

 

I think that's most likely because the US  is such a sue happy society. If the school has no way to safely prepare fresh fruit and a parent brings something she has prepared in an unsanitary manner or has cross contaminated with an allergen in her home kitchen, the school is on the hook if somebody gets sick. That is not a factor in less litigious societies.

 

I'd bring a bag of baby carrots, or a box of grapes, or some clementines. That's not exactly "packaged" food.

Edited August 24, 2017 by regentrude

[Penelope]

I think that while some of those choices are not ideal, it is because they are overly processed foods, not because they have carbs.

 

Lunch meat would be no better IMO, as it contains chemicals recognized as carcinogenic.

 

I think some people in our culture are overly concerned with protein at every eating opportunity, and with focus over macronutrients in general. It's the processing and the white flour and excessive sugars that are not the best, not the macronutrient content.

[FaithManor]

I think most of the culture surrounding food is developed in families, not schools. I, for example, do not know anybody back home who eats from trays in front of the TV. I am sure these people exist, but the normal thing is to eat meals at a table from plates, with utensils. Children are taught to use utensils from toddlerhood on.

 

The notion that people other than babies need to have constant access to water is a cultural one that does not, historically, exist in Germany; there are, for example, no public drinking fountains, and cars did not have cupholders until recently, and shopping carts definitely don't -  because people drink at meals. The carrying of bottles and cups everywhere and the constant drinking even at inappropriate times is a fairly recent phenomenon inherited from the US.

In schools, kids get to eat and drink in the breaks between periods - not during class.

Agreed.

 

I think the problem we have here is that there are so very few breaks, or none at all. School days are long, many schools have reduced or eliminated recesses, lunch times have been reduced. Therefore the opportunity to consume a reasonable amount of water is fleeting which is why pediatricians believe children spend the bulk of their school day dehydrated which leads to inability to focus and for some children, behavior problems.

 

It is the American system of beating young children over the head with education that is the problem, and patting ourselves on the back for doing it while not recognizing the glaring truth that this is NOT effective!

 

When I was in school we didn't start until 8:30 and got out at 2:45. We had twenty minute recesses in the morning and afternoon, an hour for lunch, and ten minutes between class periods if we were moving to the art room or the gymnasium. Plenty of time to grab a snack, drink a good long drink of water.

 

The local elementary now starts at 7:45 to accommodate working parents - ie get the kids on the bus as soon as possible or drop off at 7:30 for before school care - has no morning recess, and doesn't have lunch until noon. The kids are given ten minutes to eat lunch. They have to be out of the cafeteria in that time, and their food and drink are taken away from them when the whistle blows. They then get 20 minutes outside. The pre-school, K, and 1st grade get a mid-afternoon fifteen minute break. The older kids only get five minutes. School lets out at 3 p.m, and then there is the bus ride which for some kids is 1.5 hours. Four year olds are experiencing a 10.25 hour "work day".

 

So if you think about it, a child that is on the bus at 6:15 a.m. and doesn't get lunch until noon has gone nearly six hours without food, and since there is no morning recess for the older ones, potentially has gone six hours without something to drink. NOT good!

 

The middle school has similar hours, and no breaks just that 30 min. for lunch. Zero hour students - or as we know it, college bound students taking AP's - begin at 7 am, don't get lunch until noon, have zero breaks, and won't get out of school until 3:15. Only five minutes is allowed between classes, so they have to either carry all their books, or find time to get back to their lockers. Students in our 4H club report that they do not drink anything from the time they wake up until they get home from school so that they won't have to go to the bathroom during the day because it will result in being tardy for a class. The high school principal brags about how little toilet paper and towels they use in his building. I am not a violent person and know that it serves no purpose to engage in that behavior, but when he brought that up at a school board meeting, for a fleeting moment I imagined myself whackiing him on the back of the head.

 

In America, you can do things to children in school that you can't do to your adult employees!

 

If schools are allowing food and drink mid-morning and mid-afternoon, then I think we should embrace it until such time as we can get the powers that be to stop torturing kids and set up a more humane school day for children.

[Pink and Green Mom]

In my district there are so many that qualify for free or reduced lunch that they just give free lunch to everyone (and breakfast).  Breakfast is Big G cereals with fat free milk.  Every...single...day.  How is this healthy?  I don't trust the schools to feed kids healthy stuff cuz they don't.  But if I didn't have much money, what choice would I have?  I realize what a massive undertaking it is for a school to be expected to provide for all needs, but really what favor are they doing anyone?  I suppose cereal at least has vitamins and minerals AND kids will generally eat it.

 

I remember when they started serving free breakfast for all in our Florida county, the news did a big piece on it.  They specifically talked about "brain food" and how kids would be so much better prepared for tests because they were eating healthy breakfasts at school.  Then they panned to the kids who were being given, and I kid you not, Pop Tarts.

 

[Catwoman]

Whether or not a particular assumption may or may not prove accurate doesn't really matter. The point is that GENERALLY, I think people should know about the foods before they start throwing them on the "poison" end of the food spectrum. I think that GENERALLY too many foods get vilified based on assumption instead of fact.

 

:iagree:

 

And really, people DIE from eating poison, but I'm pretty sure nobody ever died from an occasional junky snack unless they got a piece stuck in their throat and they choked to death.

 

I don't agree with classifying wide swaths of food as "poison." If people choose not to eat certain foods and they restrict their children from anything that doesn't qualify as being super-healthy, that's fine with me, but I'm not a big fan of it when those same people judge others as being inferior because they feed their kids McDonald's food once every few weeks and they have soda and chips in the house. I'm also not entirely convinced that the people who only eat healthy foods and have never touched any junk food are actually any healthier than the people who eat more varied diets in moderation. Also, people have very different definitions of what makes a healthy diet. I'm sure if we put a vegan, a low-carber, and a low-fat devotee in a room together, they would have quite a few disagreements over which type of diet was healthier.

 

In this case, we're talking about occasional classroom snacks, so I don't understand why this is a big deal at all. We used to have cupcakes and Kool-Aid for class parties when I was in school, and everyone survived the "poison." The list Moxie posted seems pretty tame by comparison -- but not nearly as much fun as the cupcakes. ;)

Edited August 24, 2017 by Catwoman

[vonfirmath]

In my district there are so many that qualify for free or reduced lunch that they just give free lunch to everyone (and breakfast).  Breakfast is Big G cereals with fat free milk.  Every...single...day.  How is this healthy?  I don't trust the schools to feed kids healthy stuff cuz they don't.  But if I didn't have much money, what choice would I have?  I realize what a massive undertaking it is for a school to be expected to provide for all needs, but really what favor are they doing anyone?  I suppose cereal at least has vitamins and minerals AND kids will generally eat it.

 

...Now cereal is not healthy enough either?

That's what my kids get for breakfast at home.

 

It was what I got for breakfast growing up.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by vonfirmath

[Bootsie]

I think that's most likely because the US  is such a sue happy society. If the school has no way to safely prepare fresh fruit and a parent brings something she has prepared in an unsanitary manner or has cross contaminated with an allergen in her home kitchen, the school is on the hook if somebody gets sick. That is not a factor in less litigious societies.

 

I'd bring a bag of baby carrots, or a box of grapes, or some clementines. That's not exactly "packaged" food.

Yes, potential lawsuits are a major reason.  Also, health department regulations can vary from county to county in the US, and some counties have regulations about food being served that has not been prepared in a licensed kitchen--even down to the grapes because they must be washed in a licensed kitchen with a three compartment sink.  I think it is sad when we have a society that teaches kids that it is OK to eat the Blue Bell ice cream because it was processed in a plant but that they can't trust Johnny's mom to wash grapes that they are going to eat.  

 

When DD was in elementary school, the school developed a list of foods that students were not allowed to bring for their own consumption.  DD was terribly upset that she could not have plain apple juice combined with sparkling water but she could have Gatorade.  (anything with "bubbles" was deemed unhealthy)

[EmseB]

See you must just have a different body though because if I ate a high carb low fat diet I'd be starved all day long. I know because I've tried. Like some people eat oatmeal for breakfast. I want to eat an elephant about 30 minutes after a bowl of oatmeal. I have no idea why, but I guess that's just something odd about my body.

I thought I was the only one that experienced this. Oatmeal, specifically, makes me feel hungrier than if I'd eaten nothing at all for breakfast. It's so weird.

[Laura Corin]

In my district there are so many that qualify for free or reduced lunch that they just give free lunch to everyone (and breakfast).  Breakfast is Big G cereals with fat free milk.  Every...single...day.  How is this healthy? 

 

If they serve 'Big G' plain Cheerios, then I wouldn't object.  They are low in sugar and you are getting (according to the packet serving with skimmed milk) 3g of fibre and 3g of protein.  If you weigh 60 kilos, getting enough nutrition with this as a start is fine.  An ounce of cheese at lunch gives you another 10 grammes of protein; have a chicken thigh (19 grammes) and a good serving of peas (6g) at supper; snack on a handful of nuts (10g) and a glass of milk (8g in a cup) and you are well up to protein requirements, if that's the issue.

 

I know that you like to eat more protein, Sparkly, but liking something and determining that it is the only healthy way are not the same.  Starting the day with some fibre sounds good to me - I don't think I've seen a study that denies that lots and lots of fibre is a very healthy choice.

 

I'm with you on highly sugary cereals.

[BarbecueMom]

Whatever is on the kids' hands before they touch the food is probably more toxic than whatever they could possibly be served.

 

I was hospitalized with dysentery after touching a stroller handle at a museum outing and frequent field trip location after washing hands but before touching my sandwich.

 

Kids are gross. Way grosser than frankenfood.

Edited August 24, 2017 by BarbecueMom

[QueenCat]

In my district there are so many that qualify for free or reduced lunch that they just give free lunch to everyone (and breakfast).  Breakfast is Big G cereals with fat free milk.  Every...single...day.  How is this healthy?  I don't trust the schools to feed kids healthy stuff cuz they don't.  But if I didn't have much money, what choice would I have?  I realize what a massive undertaking it is for a school to be expected to provide for all needs, but really what favor are they doing anyone?  I suppose cereal at least has vitamins and minerals AND kids will generally eat it.

 

For many, that is all they are getting. Many families have a working parent that makes so little that they can't get enough to feed the family nutritiously or get enough food via Food Stamps combined with money. They are doing their best but that little box of Big G cereal with milk really helps. And it's cost effective for the schools. They'd have to hire more workers if they extended the cafeteria works day to include time to come in & prep a hot breakfast vs the convenience foods that at least provide "something".

[marbel]

I thought I was the only one that experienced this. Oatmeal, specifically, makes me feel hungrier than if I'd eaten nothing at all for breakfast. It's so weird.

 

Not related to oatmeal, exactly, but, the longer I delay breakfast, the less hungry I am all day.  It's like when I eat breakfast I break the seal, and I just want to eat more and more.  It doesn't much matter what I eat - eggs, oatmeal, a piece of toast with butter or peanut butter. Any food, eaten too early, sets me up to be hungry all day long.   But of course it's not always possible to delay eating too long, certainly not for schoolkids.

[marbel]

If they serve 'Big G' plain Cheerios, then I wouldn't object.  They are low in sugar and you are getting (according to the packet serving with skimmed milk) 3g of fibre and 3g of protein.  If you weigh 60 kilos, getting enough nutrition with this as a start is fine.  An ounce of cheese at lunch gives you another 10 grammes of protein; have a chicken thigh (19 grammes) and a good serving of peas (6g) at supper; snack on a handful of nuts (10g) and a glass of milk (8g in a cup) and you are well up to protein requirements, if that's the issue.

 

I know that you like to eat more protein, Sparkly, but liking something and determining that it is the only healthy way are not the same.  Starting the day with some fibre sounds good to me - I don't think I've seen a study that denies that lots and lots of fibre is a very healthy choice.

 

I'm with you on highly sugary cereals.

 

That is the problem I have with most of the foods listed in the OP, and most foods thought of as "kid food" - there is very little fiber.  I don't eat cold cereal for breakfast anymore (blood sugar issues) but when I did, I always looked for high fiber.

[Daria]

I think that while some of those choices are not ideal, it is because they are overly processed foods, not because they have carbs.

 

Lunch meat would be no better IMO, as it contains chemicals recognized as carcinogenic.

 

I think some people in our culture are overly concerned with protein at every eating opportunity, and with focus over macronutrients in general. It's the processing and the white flour and excessive sugars that are not the best, not the macronutrient content.

 

I am struggling with the idea that a banana is poison, but lunch meat is a healthy choice.

 

My kid eats both, because I think a healthy diet involves a variety, but the lunch meat is definitely more problematic from my perspective.

[Laura Corin]

That is the problem I have with most of the foods listed in the OP, and most foods thought of as "kid food" - there is very little fiber.  I don't eat cold cereal for breakfast anymore (blood sugar issues) but when I did, I always looked for high fiber.

 

I'm more worried about a meal, like breakfast provided at school, rather than the odd snack.  I usually snack on raw veg, but I have biscuits (cookies), chocolate and crisps (chips) around the house too.  It's not a big deal if it's not a big part of the diet.  If it starts to displace a good chunk of real nutrition, then that's an issue.

[FaithManor]

And yes, over the top insane health department rules are killers for schools.  One county over they even have a county statute that if you intend to serve more than 24 people ALL the food must be prepped in a licensed kitchen. Bye bye church potlucks, bye bye large birthday parties, graduation open-houses, etc. unless you pay primo dollar to pay a licensed caterer from that county to provide all the food from their licensed kitchens. I think the only exemption is for baked goods. Desserts, things without meat, cheese, veggies, or fruits. One cannot even take grandma's apple pie to a gathering of more than 24. You could however get away with a standard sheet cake that doesn't have fruit bits in it.

 

NUTS!

 

All because one person served bad seafood salad at their backyard barbecue. Frankly, if you are dumb enough to ingest seafood salad that has been sitting out all afternoon in 80 degree weather without proper refrigeration, then possibly you learned a valuable lesson that is sad for you, but it shouldn't require the rest of us to endure another intrusive restriction.

 

So imagine being a school and dealing with things like this. It is one reason that I think we simply can't expect these things to be "reasonable" when it comes to schools. They are overwhelmed with regulatory stupid. Over.the.top.dumbness.

 

Oh, and I taught kindergarten for a semester when a colleague took a leave of absence, and yes, young children are gross. The end. You can't legislate it out of them. You can't make a policy that fixes it. Trying to do so only makes everyone else nuts.

[Bluegoat]

You can send whatever food you want for meals for your own child.

The OP's list was shared treats for a class party, where the teacher has no way of preparing food in a safe manner. I don't understand parents who feel the need to bring "something healthier" than fresh fruits and vegetables as a treat to a party. Shouldn't that suffice? I just don't get the OP's complaint. (And I would find slices of lunch meat as party treats very odd.)

 

Yeah, trans for a celebration now and again are totally not the same as a daily snack.

 

Actually I think it is pretty sad that they aren't allowed to have a cake for a treat if the occasion is important enough.  Knowing that treat foods are ok and good at the right times is part of knowing how to eat properly too.  I think you were right in the other comment - orthorexia to me seems almost as endemic as poor eating.

 

Now - if we are talking about a daily group snack or meal, that requires a certain level of resources - things like cutlery, someone to put it together, and so on.

[SparklyUnicorn]

If they serve 'Big G' plain Cheerios, then I wouldn't object.  They are low in sugar and you are getting (according to the packet serving with skimmed milk) 3g of fibre and 3g of protein.  If you weigh 60 kilos, getting enough nutrition with this as a start is fine.  An ounce of cheese at lunch gives you another 10 grammes of protein; have a chicken thigh (19 grammes) and a good serving of peas (6g) at supper; snack on a handful of nuts (10g) and a glass of milk (8g in a cup) and you are well up to protein requirements, if that's the issue.

 

I know that you like to eat more protein, Sparkly, but liking something and determining that it is the only healthy way are not the same.  Starting the day with some fibre sounds good to me - I don't think I've seen a study that denies that lots and lots of fibre is a very healthy choice.

 

I'm with you on highly sugary cereals.

 

No they don't.  Cocoa Puffs and that sort of thing...

 

I didn't make any comment about what I consider healthy, but I think most can agree that sugary cereal every day isn't so great.  I don't eat excessive amounts of protein.  I just don't eat any sugar and few junk carbs.  HOWEVER, I don't think everyone needs to eat the way I do.  I didn't say that either. 

[Bluegoat]

I do understand preferring packaged for this situation.  Not everyone is good about food safety for one thing.  Also, it is much harder to control for allergy issues.  So while freshly prepared might be nicer/better for various reasons, I do understand why they insist on packaged.

 

Except that people get sick from packaged veg all the time.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Except that people get sick from packaged veg all the time.

 

Really?  I haven't heard of that.  Not saying I NEVER heard of it, but I'm not under the impression it is super common.

 

But, for example, let's say someone cuts up a bunch of apples and the knife they used wasn't washed so well after they cut their peanut butter sandwiches.  Now the apples might become dangerous for someone with a peanut allergy.  KWIM?  It is highly unlikely this will be the same situation with prepackaged cut up apples.  Although..damn I can't imaging wasting money on that.  Why not just buy bags of apples and don't cut them.

 

Or..have people bring their own dang food.  Or don't have constant food parties. What is with all the food parties at school? 

[Laura Corin]

No they don't.  Cocoa Puffs and that sort of thing...

 

I didn't make any comment about what I consider healthy, but I think most can agree that sugary cereal every day isn't so great.  I don't eat excessive amounts of protein.  I just don't eat any sugar and few junk carbs.  HOWEVER, I don't think everyone needs to eat the way I do.  I didn't say that either. 

 

If it's Cocoa Puffs, then I agree.

[marbel]

I'm more worried about a meal, like breakfast provided at school, rather than the odd snack.  I usually snack on raw veg, but I have biscuits (cookies), chocolate and crisps (chips) around the house too.  It's not a big deal if it's not a big part of the diet.  If it starts to displace a good chunk of real nutrition, then that's an issue.

 

Yes, that's true. I was thinking a little more generally about "kid food."   We have cookies, chocolate, etc., here too. But I do encourage my kids to eat high fiber foods as well.

[mathnerd]

string cheese

I was not even aware that string cheese was considered unhealthy by many until I read this thread! I was under the impression that it was made from Mozzarella cheese and presented to us in a different Form Factor. Since this is widely used in cooking and not considered unhealthy in dishes and recipes, I am wondering if I am way off base. 

Please do correct me if I am wrong.

 

PS: The Trader Joe's string cheese sitting in my fridge right now contains 8g of protein and 20% of DV of Calcium in 1 piece.

Edited August 24, 2017 by mathnerd

[Bluegoat]

Really?  I haven't heard of that.  Not saying I NEVER heard of it, but I'm not under the impression it is super common.

 

But, for example, let's say someone cuts up a bunch of apples and the knife they used wasn't washed so well after they cut their peanut butter sandwiches.  Now the apples might become dangerous for someone with a peanut allergy.  KWIM?  It is highly unlikely this will be the same situation with prepackaged cut up apples.  Although..damn I can't imaging wasting money on that.  Why not just buy bags of apples and don't cut them.

 

Or..have people bring their own dang food.  Or don't have constant food parties. What is with all the food parties at school? 

 

I think eating together is an important communal experience.  I'd actually prefer it if the schools here got serious about food and gave the kids a proper. sit down cooked lunch.  To eat together, with knives and forks and such.

 

lines from just improperly handled veg, especially the bagged kind, is a lot more common than people realize, and there has been a big increase in the last few years too.  Something like a third of food poisoning is probably from produce, and you can get things like hepatitis too.

 

I am still of the view that if a kid has a serious allergy, eating communal food is generally a bad idea anyway.  And it's not like food can't be contaminated in a factory.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Another issue is there still is a lot of argument about what is healthy.  Some people still believe fat is the devil so they are way happier to see Cocoa Puffs with fat free milk than eggs with cheese. 

[Laura Corin]

Another issue is there still is a lot of argument about what is healthy.  Some people still believe fat is the devil so they are way happier to see Cocoa Puffs with fat free milk than eggs with cheese. 

 

I'm not a big fan of tons of fat, but mostly because it's more calorie-dense than many people deal with sensibly.  However low-fat/high sugar versions of food-like items have no good purpose.  Give me a small piece of real cheese or a big spoonful of unsweetened full-fat yoghurt, rather than hunks or cups of low fat/high sugar versions.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm not a big fan of tons of fat, but mostly because it's more calorie-dense than many people deal with sensibly.  However low-fat/high sugar versions of food-like items have no good purpose.  Give me a small piece of real cheese or a big spoonful of unsweetened full-fat yoghurt, rather than hunks or cups of low fat/high sugar versions.

 

Well that's what I mean.  It does no good to eat fat free versions of foods if you aren't satisfied and end up eating 2x as much OR that it gets replaced with more sugar.  I'm not talking deep fried donuts, but that people flip over full fat yogurt.  Looking in the store there are probably 100 yogurts choices for fat free and maybe one or two with fat in it.  I literally have to go out of my way to find yogurt with fat!  Yet the fat free yogurts are also often loaded with sugar.

[Laura Corin]

 Looking in the store there are probably 100 yogurts choices for fat free and maybe one or two with fat in it.  I literally have to go out of my way to find yogurt with fat!  Yet the fat free yogurts are also often loaded with sugar.

 

I think the balance must be a bit different here.  All the local supermarkets carry this brand or equivalent, which has a range of styles, mostly full fat:

 

https://www.yeovalley.co.uk/things-we-make/yeogurt

 

There's the stupid stuff too, but full fat is not hard to find.  

[Bluegoat]

I have to look carefully for full fat yoghurt here - most kinds are very low or 0%.

 

But I think there are typically a lot more choices in North America than the UK, though, so it's perhaps easier to be overwhelmed by the choices.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have to look carefully for full fat yoghurt here - most kinds are very low or 0%.

 

But I think there are typically a lot more choices in North America than the UK, though, so it's perhaps easier to be overwhelmed by the choices.

 

I buy the Fage Total full fat one.  I have to go out of my way to the one store that sells it (and gee I think they even make that stuff in NY).  There are probably, as you know, 100 choices of nonfat yogurt, but barely anything to choose from with more fat.  I can't stand the taste of the fat free stuff.  It tastes very sour to me. 

[Catwoman]

Well that's what I mean.  It does no good to eat fat free versions of foods if you aren't satisfied and end up eating 2x as much OR that it gets replaced with more sugar.  I'm not talking deep fried donuts, but that people flip over full fat yogurt.  Looking in the store there are probably 100 yogurts choices for fat free and maybe one or two with fat in it.  I literally have to go out of my way to find yogurt with fat!  Yet the fat free yogurts are also often loaded with sugar.

Am I the only one who would rather have a donut than a container of yogurt?

 

I mean, I eat yogurt, too, but if I had to choose only one... :)

[Laura Corin]

Am I the only one who would rather have a donut than a container of yogurt?

 

I mean, I eat yogurt, too, but if I had to choose only one... :)

Not me. I love to take a big fat spoonful of unsweetened Greek yoghurt straight out of the tub. Doughnuts don't work for me, although other sweet things do.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Am I the only one who would rather have a donut than a container of yogurt?

 

I mean, I eat yogurt, too, but if I had to choose only one... :)

 

I'd rather have a bag of potato chips.  LOL  I don't have much of a sweet tooth.

[whitestavern]

Yes, potential lawsuits are a major reason.  Also, health department regulations can vary from county to county in the US, and some counties have regulations about food being served that has not been prepared in a licensed kitchen--even down to the grapes because they must be washed in a licensed kitchen with a three compartment sink.  I think it is sad when we have a society that teaches kids that it is OK to eat the Blue Bell ice cream because it was processed in a plant but that they can't trust Johnny's mom to wash grapes that they are going to eat.  

 

When DD was in elementary school, the school developed a list of foods that students were not allowed to bring for their own consumption.  DD was terribly upset that she could not have plain apple juice combined with sparkling water but she could have Gatorade.  (anything with "bubbles" was deemed unhealthy)

 

My ds was told by a teacher he couldn't have flavored seltzer because it was "soda" grrrr

[Catwoman]

I'd rather have a bag of potato chips. LOL I don't have much of a sweet tooth.

If chips were on the list, I'd pick those, too! I love all kinds of chips!

 

 

(Edited because I can't type a sentence without a typo.)

Edited August 24, 2017 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

My ds was told by a teacher he couldn't have flavored seltzer because it was "soda" grrrr

I don't think it should be up to the teacher to decide what we can feed our own children, even if it's soda.

 

Whenever I read threads like this, I'm especially glad we have always homeschooled. I wouldn't have done well with all of these rules and regulations!

[MistyMountain]

I only read the first couple of resoponses but the list in the OP is not poison. It contains fruits and vegetables! How is that not healthy? All those snacks are snacks I allow my kids to have. The things they listed actually have a small ingredient list and no added dyes, preservatives or flavors. I am ok with a little bit of sugar sometimes. It does not even effect my kids behavior like the aforementioned added ingredients. It makes sense they do not allow nuts because when kids have those allergies it is life threatening. I do not think you need meat for snacks and jerky is very expensive. Paleo is just one nutrition theory and not the end all be all and different people come from very different regions and do differently in different types of diets.

Edited August 25, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Plateau Mama]

Really? I haven't heard of that. Not saying I NEVER heard of it, but I'm not under the impression it is super common.

 

But, for example, let's say someone cuts up a bunch of apples and the knife they used wasn't washed so well after they cut their peanut butter sandwiches. Now the apples might become dangerous for someone with a peanut allergy. KWIM? It is highly unlikely this will be the same situation with prepackaged cut up apples. Although..damn I can't imaging wasting money on that. Why not just buy bags of apples and don't cut them.

 

Or..have people bring their own dang food. Or don't have constant food parties. What is with all the food parties at school?

I see it happen 2-3 times a year. At least.

 

As for the apples. Again, no parent with a with severe allergies would let their kid eat anything not prepared by them, so I think this a moot argument. Have a handful of prepackage apples for the allergy kids but its rediculous to require it for everyone. Until my kid was old enough to understand all the variations of corn, milk, gluten etc, my kid never ate anything I didn't provide, even prepackaged items. I usually found out what things were being offered and found safe alternatives for my son so he didn't feel left out. If I could. If i couldn't then it was just a life lesson that not eveything is fair.

[Penelope]

Yeah, trans for a celebration now and again are totally not the same as a daily snack.

 

Actually I think it is pretty sad that they aren't allowed to have a cake for a treat if the occasion is important enough. Knowing that treat foods are ok and good at the right times is part of knowing how to eat properly too. I think you were right in the other comment - orthorexia to me seems almost as endemic as poor eating.

on.

I think it's sad that school and other children's activities so often dictate to parents what their kids will be eating. My kids get cake at their birthdays, birthday parties of friends and family, and sometimes I might want to make them cookies or something and enjoy some with them. I don't need them to be fed treats at other events, too. It can quickly get out of hand. I have heard school parents complain about classrooms where it is someone's birthday every other week and cupcakes are handed out to all, and then teachers give candy and there are other holiday classroom celebrations with more sugar. I agree that eating is a communal activity, but most grade school classrooms are not really like a family or community, so that cupcakes at the end of the school day does not have the same significance for celebration in the way that your birthday party or Thanksgiving table does.

[Bootsie]

My kids went to a wonderful, private kindergarten that did not allow cake or cookies for birthdays or other parties.  At first it seemed like an overly strict rule; parents thought it would be OK as a special treat, but from their experience the directors saw that the special treat became an almost daily treat as there was always a birthday or celebration and that parents would start trying to outdo each other--last week someone brought a cake for Johnny's birthday, so the next week someone needs to bring a cake and ice cream for Sally's birthday; then the next week it turned into cake, ice cream, and a treat bag for Billy's birthday...  

 

Instead students were encouraged to treat their class to their "favorite" food.  The choices were not always the most nutritious if they were considered in isolation, but it exposed the children to a wide variety of foods that they would not have necessarily tried on their own and the children celebrated their special day with someone that was meaningful to them--from plain yogurt with homemade jam to crawfish!

[fraidycat]

Sorry, these are the foods suggested by the state for occasions when we need a group snack. The fruit thing means that I can't cut up apples and bring them in, I have to buy them cut up.

 

But really I was just curious if I'm the only one who looks at that list and sees poison??

Nope, you're not the only one.

 

Much of that list is just a long list of insulin resistance and diabetes waiting to happen, IMO.

[MamaBearTeacher]

I think it's sad that school and other children's activities so often dictate to parents what their kids will be eating. My kids get cake at their birthdays, birthday parties of friends and family, and sometimes I might want to make them cookies or something and enjoy some with them. I don't need them to be fed treats at other events, too. It can quickly get out of hand. I have heard school parents complain about classrooms where it is someone's birthday every other week and cupcakes are handed out to all, and then teachers give candy and there are other holiday classroom celebrations with more sugar. I agree that eating is a communal activity, but most grade school classrooms are not really like a family or community, so that cupcakes at the end of the school day does not have the same significance for celebration in the way that your birthday party or Thanksgiving table does.

My son has "parties" once a month for all the children born that month plus parties for holidays.  Sometimes there are Friday pyjama parties too. These involve the children sitting at their desks while the teacher hands out candies, cupcakes, chips, crackers, and fruit that various parents bring in rotation.  Sometimes there are also movies and board games.  Is this not too much?  What good does it do?  Other than the board games, it does not teach socialization the way a real party does.

 

My son learned about candy, Coca-cola and Dorites at school.  :(  Before he started school his favourite food was cucumbers.

 

We never has anything like this (I grew up in the 1970s).  I remember an occasional tiny cinnamon heart on Valentine's Day or a small candy cane before Christmas.  Parents never had to provide the whole class with treats and that was before there was an awareness of allergies like there is today.

 

So when did things change?  When did these treat parties start?  It just doesn't make sense given that we are more aware of health issues and the dangers of overconsumption of sugar and given that there are more food allergies and intolerances and greater awareness of allergies.

 

My son spends about a month in the classroom learning about nutrition and how to read labels but then he is given the very foods he is told not to eat by the teacher!

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

We never has anything like this (I grew up in the 1970s).  I remember an occasional tiny cinnamon heart on Valentine's Day or a small candy cane before Christmas.  Parents never had to provide the whole class with treats and that was before there was an awareness of allergies like there is today.

 

So when did things change?  When did these treat parties start?  It just doesn't make sense given that we are more aware of health issues and the dangers of overconsumption of sugar and given that there are more food allergies and intolerances and greater awareness of allergies.

 

My son spends about a month in the classroom learning about nutrition and how to read labels but then he is given the very foods he is told not to eat by the teacher!

 

It must have changed before the 70s. I recall getting cupcakes for different holidays and a little candy at some.  DH's mother is still fondly remembered at his school for her sugar cookies.  (I didn't believe him until I met an old teacher of his and that was the first thing she mentioned lol!)

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

My son spends about a month in the classroom learning about nutrition and how to read labels but then he is given the very foods he is told not to eat by the teacher!

 

I forgot to add...

We taught about nutrition as well but we didn't teach our kids they should never eat those foods.