What Consequence for This Behavior?

[TammyS]

Would you give a consequence for this behavior? If so, what would it be? Here's the incident during an early Christmas gift opening event:

 

DS is a typical a 11 year old boy-asks for camping equipment, video games, sporting goods, etc... for Christmas. I got him a shirt I saw that I thought would look nice on him, but he decided he didn't want clothes and tossed it aside with a comment of "Ugh, clothes", and went on to the next gift. He did not say thank you for the gift. He got mostly things he asked for/liked, except for the shirt. He doesn't dislike the shirt, but dislikes that he got clothing as a gift. He knows this behavior is wrong, because he would never act like that to other people outside of us, his immediate family, but he wasnt shy about being rude his dad and I about it.

 

Do I let this pass as eleven year old boy crap, or dole out a lesson for that behavior?

 

ETA: He gave me his Christmas list and added "No clothes!" to the bottom of the list. I bought many things off the list, but did buy the shirt because I thought he would look good in it. Don't know if this changes the picture or not.

 

The absolute minimum consequence would be that he would apologize to everyone at the event and be done opening presents, or playing with any that he has opened already, for that day.

 

ETA:This is also why I don't ask my kids what they want for gifts.  They are going to get what I want them to have (though I do take into account their current preference and interests), they are not going to get faddish stuff no matter how vehemently they desire it (think beanie babies and the like), and if I don't want to get them stuff I don't want to give the impression that putting it on a list is going to make it happen. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by TammyS

[Harriet Vane]

If it is rare for him to be rude I'd take him aside and discuss it with him (that his behavior is rude and ungracious) even for an item he doesn't want as a gift.

 

If this is more of a pattern or longstanding thing I'd make harsher consequences. He is old enough to be able to control his reactions even when he isn't happy if he is neurotypical. But just an isolating thing? I'd stop, walk over or make eye contact with him, and explain that was completely uncalled for, then model the correct response. If he gave more attitude then would deal with it.

 

Sometimes things slip out when we are disappointed, which might bear noting. But if it is a habit? Slightly different situation. Eleven is a tough age for impulse control.

 

:iagree:

 

One thing I have tried hard to ingrain into my kids is the idea that the ONLY proper response to a gift is to say, "Thank you."

 

It's a valuable lesson to learn, especially for obligatory-gift occasions like birthdays or Christmas. Despite the fact that there are lists and cultural expectations, it's important to train away any entitlement mindset.

 

The only exception to this is when a gift is given with strings, as in deeply dysfunctional relationships. Then it's perfectly acceptable to return a gift, but still with a polite thank you. 

[maize]

The absolute minimum consequence would be that he would apologize to everyone at the event and be done opening presents, or playing with any that he has opened already, for that day.

 

 

Wow, that sounds like a way to make Christmas really, really miserable and provoke lots of bitterness and resentment.

[katilac]

Wow, that sounds like a way to make Christmas really, really miserable and provoke lots of bitterness and resentment.

 

It would also make me deeply uncomfortable if I were at the gathering, and I'd say that goes for pretty much everyone I know. 

 

My kids would have likely burst out crying on the other kid's behalf when they were that age, and it would be pretty hard for any of us to enjoy opening gifts with this poor kid sitting to the side. Honestly, we would probably just pack up our gifts for later and move on to something else. 

 

My kids may have been capable of making an inappropriate remark when they were 11, but they weren't capable of happily exclaiming over presents while another child was being excluded. 

[katilac]

 

 

One thing I have tried hard to ingrain into my kids is the idea that the ONLY proper response to a gift is to say, "Thank you."

 

 

I think the vast majority of posters can agree with that, but there's a reason it takes so long to raise children. 

 

"Ingrain" is a very good word to use; you can't just teach a child something, apparently you must remind them 100,000 times before it is ingrained. My oldest is off to college next year, and I have great hopes that she might finally remember that dirty clothes need to be taken out of the suitcase after a trip. 

 

They aren't going to get things right all the time, even things they 'know.' I probably would have given a reminder at the time, but if I failed to do so, I would let it go. He doesn't usually act this way, so bringing it up well after the fact doesn't tell him anything he doesn't already know, and makes it a bigger deal than it is. 

 

I'd give him a reminder before the next round of gifts, and keep on teaching and reminding for the next 7 years.  

[TammyS]

It would also make me deeply uncomfortable if I were at the gathering, and I'd say that goes for pretty much everyone I know. 

 

My kids would have likely burst out crying on the other kid's behalf when they were that age, and it would be pretty hard for any of us to enjoy opening gifts with this poor kid sitting to the side. Honestly, we would probably just pack up our gifts for later and move on to something else. 

 

My kids may have been capable of making an inappropriate remark when they were 11, but they weren't capable of happily exclaiming over presents while another child was being excluded. 

 

Interesting.  Our family culture is such that people who are old enough to know better should expect to be left out of events if they are rude.  We don't stop doing things or having fun just because someone is having an attitude. 

 

Frankly, I was stunned by all the people who said "let it go".  Anyone I know would fall down dead with shock if an 11 year old was that rude (and I consider that pretty high up on the scale) and it was "let go".  You would immediately be labeled the permissive parents raising the rude ingrate and would probably never be invited to anything again (unless you were super close family)  for fear of what your kids would be allowed to get away with.

[maize]

But this happened at home among immediate family. Why should the parents be reacting out of fear of how others would label them (not that I think that should motivate their parenting decisions in any circumstances)?

[Laura Corin]

But this happened at home among immediate family. Why should the parents be reacting out of fear of how others would label them (not that I think that should motivate their parenting decisions in any circumstances)?

 

Yes, and the OP said that this was not typical behaviour.

[maize]

OP already said the child does not behave this way in front of others.

 

I think taking him aside at some point and talking about how his reaction was hurtful to the gift giver would be appropriate and sufficient. Something along the lines of "I know that shirt wasn't your favorite present but I picked it out because I thought you would like it and it made me feel bad when you just tossed it aside with a rude noise. Can you try to remember to think about how your attitude in receiving a gift makes the giver feel next time please?" Then a hug and drop the matter. And try to remember the lesson of not giving as a gift something a person has explicitly asked not to receive.

[Harriet Vane]

I think the vast majority of posters can agree with that, but there's a reason it takes so long to raise children. 

 

"Ingrain" is a very good word to use; you can't just teach a child something, apparently you must remind them 100,000 times before it is ingrained. My oldest is off to college next year, and I have great hopes that she might finally remember that dirty clothes need to be taken out of the suitcase after a trip. 

 

They aren't going to get things right all the time, even things they 'know.' I probably would have given a reminder at the time, but if I failed to do so, I would let it go. He doesn't usually act this way, so bringing it up well after the fact doesn't tell him anything he doesn't already know, and makes it a bigger deal than it is. 

 

I'd give him a reminder before the next round of gifts, and keep on teaching and reminding for the next 7 years.  

 

 

I absolutely agree, which is why I also posted in agreement with ArcticMama to simply discuss the right way to respond, especially if it's not habitual behavior. 

 

I do also acknowledge that he specifically asked to not be given clothes. His behavior was still rude, but I think his feelings upon opening such a gift can be validated while teaching an appropriate response.

[albeto.]

But this happened at home among immediate family. Why should the parents be reacting out of fear of how others would label them (not that I think that should motivate their parenting decisions in any circumstances)?

 

Fear of losing control, it would appear. Fear of watching a child disregard orders, fear of watching a child lose respect and fail to comply within expectations of the parent, it might seem. I think that's what frightens parents more than many are aware - watching a child grow into an autonomous person who does not behave within the emotional comfort zone of the parent. BTDT, it's a frightening place. In my experience, a socially inappropriate response to a perceived injustice (justifiable perception on the child's part, imo) wouldn't be a concern for this fear, but people have different comfort zones. Instead, it would be an opportunity to teach a child how to respond when caught off guard, how to respond gratefully in spite of a perceived injustice, how to sympathize with the offender (in this case the parent), with the purpose of learning how to resolve conflict (internally as well as among two people). It would also be an opportunity to apologize to the child for disregarding their wishes, as those wishes were completely valid. 

[SKL]

It would also make me deeply uncomfortable if I were at the gathering, and I'd say that goes for pretty much everyone I know. 

 

My kids would have likely burst out crying on the other kid's behalf when they were that age, and it would be pretty hard for any of us to enjoy opening gifts with this poor kid sitting to the side. Honestly, we would probably just pack up our gifts for later and move on to something else. 

 

My kids may have been capable of making an inappropriate remark when they were 11, but they weren't capable of happily exclaiming over presents while another child was being excluded. 

 

Same here.  It would ruin it for everyone.

 

I have a person we live with who doesn't know when to drop things and ruins stuff this way.  Ruining a special day is way out of proportion with the offense.

 

I remember when I was young and parents would say, "Christmas comes but once a year."  What they meant was, don't ruin this moment that we can never get back, over some childish behavior that can be dealt with in a different way or a different time.  And these were not "permissive parents" at all.

[MrsWeasley]

Interesting.  Our family culture is such that people who are old enough to know better should expect to be left out of events if they are rude.  We don't stop doing things or having fun just because someone is having an attitude. 

 

Frankly, I was stunned by all the people who said "let it go".  Anyone I know would fall down dead with shock if an 11 year old was that rude (and I consider that pretty high up on the scale) and it was "let go".  You would immediately be labeled the permissive parents raising the rude ingrate and would probably never be invited to anything again (unless you were super close family)  for fear of what your kids would be allowed to get away with.

 

Correcting my eldest (almost 9) in front of others, in the moment almost always escalates the situation as she desperately tries to save face. I think people really need to keep in mind that just because a parent doesn't discipline a child in front of you doesn't mean the parent doesn't discipline the child. However, I also really think that in this season of generosity, we need to remember to be generous with our children's behaviors. These children's routine - especially sleep and diet - have been disrupted. 

[SKL]

Anyone I know would fall down dead with shock if an 11 year old was that rude (and I consider that pretty high up on the scale) and it was "let go".  You would immediately be labeled the permissive parents raising the rude ingrate and would probably never be invited to anything again (unless you were super close family)  for fear of what your kids would be allowed to get away with.

 

And I would fall down dead with shock if I was informed that everyone else's 11yo acted with perfect manners during the private family gift opening.  :P

 

And I would say, label away.

 

IME parents who are too uptight to let anything go tend to raise kids with no real innate sense of right and wrong.  The kids who did the most shocking things growing up were the ones with the most rigid, punitive parents.  They were the ones we were afraid to have over at Christmas.

[marbel]

Interesting.  Our family culture is such that people who are old enough to know better should expect to be left out of events if they are rude.  We don't stop doing things or having fun just because someone is having an attitude. 

 

Frankly, I was stunned by all the people who said "let it go".  Anyone I know would fall down dead with shock if an 11 year old was that rude (and I consider that pretty high up on the scale) and it was "let go".  You would immediately be labeled the permissive parents raising the rude ingrate and would probably never be invited to anything again (unless you were super close family)  for fear of what your kids would be allowed to get away with.

 

So a kid is labeled a rude ingrate and his immediate family banished for life because of one manners faux pas at age 11?    

 

Fun crowd!

 

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by marbel

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 25, 2015 by w11

[Caroline]

I cannot imagine my family banishing me because my 11 year old didn't want clothes for Christmas. Call me a permissive parent. Call us a permissive family.

 

Interesting. Our family culture is such that people who are old enough to know better should expect to be left out of events if they are rude. We don't stop doing things or having fun just because someone is having an attitude.

 

Frankly, I was stunned by all the people who said "let it go". Anyone I know would fall down dead with shock if an 11 year old was that rude (and I consider that pretty high up on the scale) and it was "let go". You would immediately be labeled the permissive parents raising the rude ingrate and would probably never be invited to anything again (unless you were super close family) for fear of what your kids would be allowed to get away with.

[MFG]

So a kid is labeled a rude ingrate and his immediate family banished for life because of one manners faux pas at age 11?

 

Fun crowd!

I agree.

 

Are we suppose to think that being banished from this group is a bad thing?

[StephanieZ]

Well, it was obnoxious. 

 

I'd probably let it slide besides mentioning, "Ouch, that hurt!" and if non-immediate family were present to observe his rudeness, I might add an embarrassed smile and shoulder shrug aimed at those who heard his comment. Or maybe a, "Whoops, I guess I forgot to order the Miss Manners for Preteens" book . . . Let me put that in the Amazon cart for your 12th birthday . . . 

 

In general, I really wouldn't want to make a big scene out of it or let it really ruin the event for everyone. So, I'd minimize it and file it away in my brain as something to work on . . . 

 

FWIW, since he had told you clearly (in writing no less!) that he didn't want clothes as gifts, and so you clearly knew that, then I do think it was unkind of you to give him clothes as a gift. He's your young kid. You provide clothes because it's what a parent does . . . Don't give him clothes as gifts again until you are sure he is of an age when he would like it or it is some special thing he'd love (a t-shirt with his favorite team/whatever on it if he would really like it . . .) Gifts are supposed to be chosen because someone would like it, not because you would like the person to have it. Don't let the drive to have a big pile of wrapped gifts encourage you to give unwanted things. If you want to buy him a shirt, do it, but don't call it a gift, because he clearly doesn't care about clothes. It'd be like your dh or your MIL wrapping up some similarly undesired necessity for you as a gift. Maybe bags for the vacuum machine, or dish soap . . . no fun in that for you, just some crap you need. Many kids think of clothes that way. (FWIW, I feel the same way about diapers for baby showers . . . fine as a way to subsidize broke new parents . . . but no fun . . . If I am asked to bring diapers to a shower, I DO, but I also bring "real" presents.)

 

11 is the preview of the ugly, unpleasant early teen years IME. I'd get used to it, ignore it, and keep your fingers crossed that you all survive the next few years without too many scars. 

 

Sorry that happened. That age is tough. Very. Tough. ((((hugs))))

[Alice]

I can see my son doing the same thing. I'd let it go also especially if he is generally someone who says thank you and isn't rude.

 

In reality it would probably become a family joke and I and could see wrapping something he did want the next year in a box underneath a pair of boring socks or underwear or something like that. 

[SKL]

I don't expect my kids to say "thank you" to me on Christmas.  I'm OK with them having a sense of entitlement about Christmas gifts from me.  :)  It won't last forever.  That said, I am not a fan of "lists."  I buy what I want to give and accept that some of it won't delight them.  It's Christmas, not Heaven.  :P

[MedicMom]

Major on the majors, minor on the minors.

Some things are Really Big Deals.

This is not one of them, especially if it's an atypical behavior for them.

 

I am really surprised at the people who want to make this a big deal. Growing up(especially in the conservative homeschooling community) there were a lot of parents who treated every infraction like the end of the world and punished harshly.

Those parents now, 20 years later, don't have much of a relationship with their kids.

[cave canem]

I rarely punish my kids, I can not remember the last time.... when they were little?  But man do I talk to them, a lot.  I'd probably take him aside later and tell him  . . . 

This made me LOL.  If I pulled my son aside and spoke to him in this vein, we wouldn't get to five minutes.  After about 30 seconds, he would say, "Please! No more punishment!  Just give me a consequence already!"

[38carrots]

Interesting thread.

 

I think the OP was disrespectful towards her child, and the natural consequence of her rude behavior was the child's reaction. So the OP will hopefully learn not to give something as a gift when specifically asked not to. I think that ultimately what the child experienced was "Mom didn't hear me. Mom didn't think my wish was important enough." (And yes, my mother, with whom I haven't talked in years, would've done exactly the same. Gifts (if any) were certainly about her, not about me.)

 

I can understand the OP's well meaning desire in giving this gift (and yeah, BTDT, especially with cute clothes!), but in this case I would've softened the gift giving to the child. I would've said, "Child, you told me not to get you clothes, but when I saw this shirt I thought of you and was compelled to get it for you. It is more of a bonus, and not a replacement." Or better yet, I would've given that shirt to the child *before* the official gift giving, as a little surprise gift.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by 38carrots

[73349]

See... and I say this gently... you broke what I consider the first rule of parenting (after the unwritten ones, like Keep the Kid Alive If at All Possible): Don't Provoke the Baby. And when we break that rule, all bets are off, and an obnoxious response is sort of to be expected.

 

If your watch reads half-past naptime, you don't bring a toddler to the store... or if you do, you can expect the meltdown. If you know a tween finds clothes boring, you don't wrap a shirt in paper and call it a present... or if you choose to do it anyway, you might expect a small slip in self-control. (Mine is a little younger, but clothes simply appear in his room when needed, and I don't see that changing any time soon. He'd just as soon get toilet paper for Christmas--yes, we all like having it available, but it's not a present.)

 

So yes, I'd give a quick verbal correction about expressing gratitude, but I'd be remiss if I didn't remind myself not to provoke the kid like that in the future. Better fewer gifts than something you know the person will not want.

 

Best wishes for a happy holiday.

[Haiku]

You would immediately be labeled the permissive parents raising the rude ingrate and would probably never be invited to anything again (unless you were super close family) for fear of what your kids would be allowed to get away with.

I'm really glad that my friends and family aren't that judgmental and unforgiving.

[Upennmama]

I would correct him and ask him to maybe sit out the opening for a few moments or skip a turn. I agree that maybe the gift wasn't the best idea, however it's important for kids to learn that self-control, respect, obedience, kindness, don't depend on someone else's treatment of us. Children cannot be allowed to disrespect anyone just because they are justifiably angry, tired, hungry, etc.

[albeto.]

I would correct him and ask him to maybe sit out the opening for a few moments or skip a turn. I agree that maybe the gift wasn't the best idea, however it's important for kids to learn that self-control, respect, obedience, kindness, don't depend on someone else's treatment of us. Children cannot be allowed to disrespect anyone just because they are justifiably angry, tired, hungry, etc.

 

Why? Why are children exempt from respect? Why are adults exempt from accountability? Would this count if someone tried to sell a child drugs, or convince her to let them touch her underpants? If there's a line that can be drawn, why should that line be exempt from judgment? 

[maize]

I would correct him and ask him to maybe sit out the opening for a few moments or skip a turn. I agree that maybe the gift wasn't the best idea, however it's important for kids to learn that self-control, respect, obedience, kindness, don't depend on someone else's treatment of us. Children cannot be allowed to disrespect anyone just because they are justifiably angry, tired, hungry, etc.

Certainly children should learn to be thoughtful and respectful. So should adults. The most respectful thing the adult in this situation could have done would have been to honor the child's gift request. To take offense at and act punitively towards childish behavior upon receipt of the undesired gift certainly would not demonstrate respect and kindness. Both erred, both can learn to act more thoughtfully and respectfully next time. I do not believe either child or adult deserves or will best benefit from punishment.

 

Mostly--not a battle needing to be fought. Let a loving, positive relationship built on understanding and forgiveness be the guiding principle.

[Guest]

See... and I say this gently... you broke what I consider the first rule of parenting (after the unwritten ones, like Keep the Kid Alive If at All Possible): Don't Provoke the Baby. And when we break that rule, all bets are off, and an obnoxious response is sort of to be expected.

 

If your watch reads half-past naptime, you don't bring a toddler to the store... or if you do, you can expect the meltdown. If you know a tween finds clothes boring, you don't wrap a shirt in paper and call it a present... or if you choose to do it anyway, you might expect a small slip in self-control. (Mine is a little younger, but clothes simply appear in his room when needed, and I don't see that changing any time soon. He'd just as soon get toilet paper for Christmas--yes, we all like having it available, but it's not a present.)

 

So yes, I'd give a quick verbal correction about expressing gratitude, but I'd be remiss if I didn't remind myself not to provoke the kid like that in the future. Better fewer gifts than something you know the person will not want.

 

Best wishes for a happy holiday.

 

BWWAAAHAHAHAHA! Best. Line. Ever. :D

[purplejackmama]

So a kid is labeled a rude ingrate and his immediate family banished for life because of one manners faux pas at age 11?

 

Fun crowd!

That is EXACTLY what I was thinking! Oh please never let me get invited to a Christmas like THIS.

 

WOW.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Not to the OP, just a general comment on many discussion points above....

I am that permissive parent and I have bright, articulate, funny, and extremely polite kids.  

On the other hand I was raised in a totalitarian type household and I became a rebellious,  danger-seeking, out of control teen.

 

I have to live my life as my experiences have taught me and IME loving, understanding, forgiving and sometimes  firm parenting is what gets the best results.  Really only time will tell, but I will tell you (the general you, no one specifically) for all their faults (and mine), I love my parents and it was very gratifying when they apologized for being so hard and demanding of me as a child/teen.   

[purplejackmama]

Some of these posts have me scratching my head.

 

From the outside it appears many people on these boards think of children as robots. I could never punish a child for not having the "appropriate" response to a non desired gift.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Interesting. Our family culture is such that people who are old enough to know better should expect to be left out of events if they are rude. We don't stop doing things or having fun just because someone is having an attitude.

 

Frankly, I was stunned by all the people who said "let it go". Anyone I know would fall down dead with shock if an 11 year old was that rude (and I consider that pretty high up on the scale) and it was "let go". You would immediately be labeled the permissive parents raising the rude ingrate and would probably never be invited to anything again (unless you were super close family) for fear of what your kids would be allowed to get away with.

You need better friends.

[maize]

For those who believe a punishment or consequence is the appropriate response to this situation, may I ask what they expect the consequence to accomplish?

 

It seems to me that the principle most of us would want our children to learn is that of being thoughtful, kind, and grateful towards those who give us gifts. Child should recognize "mom bought me this shirt because she thought I would like it, I'll tell her thank you to show that I understand the gift is a demonstration of her caring for me." 

 

I don't see how a consequence could teach a child that lesson. All I can see a consequence teaching is "if I don't do what I'm expected to do (show appreciation for the gift) bad things will be done to me." How does that help the child develop empathy and gratitude and respect? I can see how it could cause a change in behavior, at least as long as a consequence-enforcer is present, but I don't see how it results in a long-term net gain in character.

 

I can imagine, at the moment when the child says "ugh" and throws the gift over their shoulder, stepping in with a "hey bud, is that an appropriate response to a gift?"; I can also see pulling the kid aside later (if I didn't respond in the moment) to talk about how his response made me feel bad. And I can potentially see apologizing to the child for not honoring his "no clothes" request. Any of those could be an opportunity to teach and model thoughtfulness and good manners. I just can't see how, say, taking away another gift, or refusing to let him enjoy the rest of the day, is going to help him develop more empathy or better interpersonal relationship skills.

Edited December 25, 2015 by maize

[purplejackmama]

For those who believe a punishment or consequence is the appropriate response to this situation, may I ask what they expect the consequence to accomplish?

 

It seems to me that the principle most of us would want our children to learn is that of being thoughtful, kind, and grateful towards those who give us gifts. Child should recognize "mom bought me this shirt because she thought I would like it, I'll tell her thank you to show that I understand the gift is a demonstration of her caring for me."

 

I don't see how a consequence could teach a child that lesson. All I can see a consequence teaching is "if I don't do what I'm expected to do (show appreciation for the gift) bad things will be done to me." How does that help the child develop empathy and gratitude and respect? I can see how it could cause a change in behavior, at least as long as a consequence-enforcer is present, but I don't see how it results in a long-term net gain in character.

 

I can imagine, at the moment when the child says "ugh" and throws the gift over their shoulder, stepping in with a "hey bud, is that an appropriate response to a gift?"; I can also see pulling the kid aside later (if I didn't respond in the moment) to talk about how his response made me feel bad. And I can potentially see apologizing to the child for not honoring his "no clothes" request. Any of those could be an opportunity to teach and model thoughtfulness and good manners. I just can't see how, say, taking away another gift, or refusing to let him enjoy the rest of the day, is going to help him develop more empathy or better interpersonal relationship skills.

Exactly.

[albeto.]

For those who believe a punishment or consequence is the appropriate response to this situation, may I ask what they expect the consequence to accomplish?

 

It seems to me that the principle most of us would want our children to learn is that of being thoughtful, kind, and grateful towards those who give us gifts. Child should recognize "mom bought me this shirt because she thought I would like it, I'll tell her thank you to show that I understand the gift is a demonstration of her caring for me." 

 

I don't see how a consequence could teach a child that lesson. All I can see a consequence teaching is "if I don't do what I'm expected to do (show appreciation for the gift) bad things will be done to me." How does that help the child develop empathy and gratitude and respect? I can see how it could cause a change in behavior, at least as long as a consequence-enforcer is present, but I don't see how it results in a long-term net gain in character.

 

I can imagine, at the moment when the child says "ugh" and throws the gift over their shoulder, stepping in with a "hey bud, is that an appropriate response to a gift?"; I can also see pulling the kid aside later (if I didn't respond in the moment) to talk about how his response made me feel bad. And I can potentially see apologizing to the child for not honoring his "no clothes" request. Any of those could be an opportunity to teach and model thoughtfulness and good manners. I just can't see how, say, taking away another gift, or refusing to let him enjoy the rest of the day, is going to help him develop more empathy or better interpersonal relationship skills.

 

It is my opinion that this conditioning teaches one to be grateful for, respect, and empathize with power and authority. I suspect this is on purpose, but I don't agree with it for reasons you articulate and more. 

[Guest]

Interesting. Our family culture is such that people who are old enough to know better should expect to be left out of events if they are rude. We don't stop doing things or having fun just because someone is having an attitude.

 

Frankly, I was stunned by all the people who said "let it go". Anyone I know would fall down dead with shock if an 11 year old was that rude (and I consider that pretty high up on the scale) and it was "let go". You would immediately be labeled the permissive parents raising the rude ingrate and would probably never be invited to anything again (unless you were super close family) for fear of what your kids would be allowed to get away with.

Personally, I am not a "let it go" person. In part, I would be in that moment quite hurt by the rejecting actions of the child and thus, I am sure I would not let it go because my shock and surprise would manifest and I would surely mention it to the kid. However, the OP ignored specific information the child gave when he specified "No clothes." This is a disrespectful thing and so it's really no surprise that the kid was disrespectful back. Definitely not something to be punished.

 

If you are making me lunch and ask what kind of sandwich I want and I say, "ham or turkey, I don't care, just please NO MAYONNAISE; I don't like it at all!" If you make my sandwich with mayo anyway because *you* like it and can't imagine why someone eats a sandwich without it, I can't be expected to now be super poilite when I bite in and discover mayonnaise. I might even be seriously rude.

 

If other people give my kids a gift, I do expect them to always be polite and thankful, however little they may like the gift. If Grammy or Aunt Mable took the time and effort to make or buy a gift for them, who cares whether or not it's just what they always wanted. In my family, I can tell you there are some older relatives of meager means and who just aren't up to speed on what every 11-year-old boy would want. So if my kids receive a hand-knitted hat or something, YES, I expect them to say thank you and any other thing they can come up with - this is my favorite color, or it's very soft, or this will be so warm when it snows. I actively taught my kids to be gracious gift recipients when they were little and they are. However, in the OP's scenario, it is different because this was the mom and she was already informed of a specific gift that the kid would see as negative.

[Word Nerd]

So a kid is labeled a rude ingrate and his immediate family banished for life because of one manners faux pas at age 11?

 

Fun crowd!

I have to wonder what other behaviors would result in shunning. Showing a kid grace at Christmas and talking to him about it later instead of needlessly escalating the situation seems much more reasonable. If people decided I was a horrible, permissive parent for taking that tack, so be it.

[6packofun]

I don't consider myself a pushover mom, but I've bought clothes for my preteen/teen boys a couple of times for Christmas and then thought better of it because I KNOW they think it's a boring gift.  Clothes are necessities and usually when I want to give clothing to someone who explicitly does not care to receive it, it's for ME.  That said, if I gave clothing anyway, I'd probably brush off the comment with a lighthearted, "Oh, humor your old mom...you'll look amazing in that shirt so get over it." and then move on.  I'm not clear on who all was present at this "event", but if it was outside of immediate family, I would probably NOT ever give clothing.  I think it's embarrassing for some boys--like the ones who ask not to get them...  I don't know the OP's ds' tone, either...it could have been embarrassment or feeling uncool in front of certain people.  Who knows?  I give more grace in situations that are out of the ordinary and that call for jolly attitudes.  LOL

[Catwoman]

The absolute minimum consequence would be that he would apologize to everyone at the event and be done opening presents, or playing with any that he has opened already, for that day.

 

ETA:This is also why I don't ask my kids what they want for gifts.  They are going to get what I want them to have (though I do take into account their current preference and interests), they are not going to get faddish stuff no matter how vehemently they desire it (think beanie babies and the like), and if I don't want to get them stuff I don't want to give the impression that putting it on a list is going to make it happen.

 

  

Interesting.  Our family culture is such that people who are old enough to know better should expect to be left out of events if they are rude.  We don't stop doing things or having fun just because someone is having an attitude. 

 

Frankly, I was stunned by all the people who said "let it go".  Anyone I know would fall down dead with shock if an 11 year old was that rude (and I consider that pretty high up on the scale) and it was "let go".  You would immediately be labeled the permissive parents raising the rude ingrate and would probably never be invited to anything again (unless you were super close family)  for fear of what your kids would be allowed to get away with.

Tammy, I know you are a caring person based on so many of your posts, but in this thread you are coming across as... well... just plain mean.

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by being so controlling and punitive. I know you love your kids and want the very best for them, but if you continue along this path of punishment and making them afraid to tell you how they really feel about things for fear of being punished for it, I fear that you will end up pushing your children away from you. I'm afraid they will sneak around and lie to you because they know that you won't tolerate anything other than them totally kissing up to you and showing you complete respect at all times, and they will be frightened to tell you when they make mistakes or get into trouble because they will know you won't be supportive and try to help them, but that you will punish them instead.

 

I don't know how old your children are, but I truly hope you can re-read your posts and realize that you're not being a kind and understanding parent whose kids love and respect her, but a tyrant whose kids may be afraid to tell you how they truly feel about anything.

 

For goodness sake, you don't even allow your children to suggest what they want for Christmas, and you never let them have "faddish" toys that they might love, just because you don't personally like them? :svengo: I think that is so mean. Why do you need to have that level of control over your children? They aren't even permitted to want things or tell you they would like to have a particular special toy. I'm sorry, but that is way beyond simply being strict.

[Plateau Mama]

My MIL used to always get my kids clothes. A few years ago, my son was maybe 8 or 9 grandma and grandpa were here when he opened his presents. He looks at them, dead serious, and says buying me clothes only helps my mom and dad. From then on they never bought him clothes for gifts. I didn't hear about the incident until the next year when they made some comment about not getting him clothes.

[katilac]

Any of these replies reminding other old-timers about that infamous thread where some parents said their kids not only didn't have the right to pick out their own stuff, they also didn't actually own any of their stuff, including gifts and the clothes on their back? And then other parents shocked them in return by saying they considered their kids to not only own the clothes on their back, but the dresser they let them pick out to store the clothes in? Good times - that was a very long thread. 

[Catwoman]

Any of these replies reminding other old-timers about that infamous thread where some parents said their kids not only didn't have the right to pick out their own stuff, they also didn't actually own any of their stuff, including gifts and the clothes on their back? And then other parents shocked them in return by saying they considered their kids to not only own the clothes on their back, but the dresser they let them pick out to store the clothes in? Good times - that was a very long thread.

I remember that thread! :)

[Reefgazer]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

[katilac]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

 

I didn't call you disrespectful, but I'll answer anyway  :laugh:

 

We don't give those types of practical gifts. Cute, extra clothes for those who like that, sure, but underwear? 

 

What is the point of wrapping up underwear and calling it a Christmas gift? It's like saying, happy birthday, here's a can of peas! I am fully committed to provided my children with all the vegetables and underwear they need, and I'd just as soon not wrap it all. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I didn't call you disrespectful, but I'll answer anyway  :laugh:

 

We don't give those types of practical gifts. Cute, extra clothes for those who like that, sure, but underwear? 

 

What is the point of wrapping up underwear and calling it a Christmas gift? It's like saying, happy birthday, here's a can of peas! I am fully committed to provided my children with all the vegetables and underwear they need, and I'd just as soon not wrap it all. 

 

Agreed.  Although exceptions are made here for especially coveted underwear (specialty boxers and certain socks) that we know they would like.

[Corraleno]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

 

Fun tee shirts or hoodies from TeeFury or ThinkGeek, yes. The kind of plain everyday shirts/jeans/underwear that I would normally buy for the kids whenever they need them are not gift material, IMHO. My DS is actually getting several pairs of socks this year, but they're expensive fencing socks that he specifically asked for. I would not wrap up a 6-pack of crew socks from Target and call that a present.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

So this thread got me thinking...do any of you who said I was "disrespectful" to DS (I did eye roll at that one, folks) give practical gifts for Christmas, or is it all fun and games? We're a practical -gift-giving family, so underwear, socks, jeans, and especially shirts (because there's so much variety in those, lol!) are kind of expected.

We do, and when my son requested no clothes I did warn him there would likely be clothes and to just respond thanks and move on. He is older though, and he might still roll his eyes or make a joke depending on who it's from :)

 

When I think "disrespectful" on your part, it really isn't meant as direct commentary of you but a geveral explanation as to why the child doesn't deserve to be punished for what really is a not-surprising response. Especially from a child.

 

 

*eta usually clothing is something more fun or unique to the recipient.

Edited December 25, 2015 by PinkyandtheBrains.

[frogger]

Well, there looks like a lot of people who think this is normal. Hmmm, I'm constantly reminded how strange my family is.

 

I remember needing a new pair of gloves when I was a kid and I told everyone that was what I wanted and I got three pairs and was happy. I'm very happy with the pot that my husband got for the family this year and strangely, I guess, my kids were too. I'm sick of having only one little pot but it certainly didn't make the list of necessities for survival so I didn't go out and buy it.

 

I did have a child who once wasn't impressed with a clothing item but I just explained that Grandma really tried hard to get nice gifts for him and that even though he didn't like it that he should be grateful she tried. I haven't seen that again for some time. If someone got them a rude or inappropriate gift as does happen at times to some people that would be different.