Is calling CPS the right move here?

[Samm]

Even if pets were kept in a home like this, I am sure many animal lovers and advocates would have called already someone.  (Do these people have any pets?  Are they malnourished too?)

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Based on the information shared, yes I would call.

[AimeeM]

Yes, they can and will take the children because the house is filthy. Assuming it is "filthy," and not just "cluttered." 

I know of a local case where a sibling set of 7 or 8 was taken for pretty just this. The house was in a constant state of filth (as in, dangerous and unsanitary) and the parents refused to clean it. CPS tried to compel them to do so and when they wouldn't, they removed the children.

I read, unfortunately pretty frequently, on our local news about children being removed because of verifiable filth (feces, dirty diapers laying around, bugs, etc - filth of THAT variety).

I'm gonna say no.

 

Yes, I agree it's all awful.  It sounds like the house I grew up in (actually, it sounds more stable than my home was).  We had CPS called a number of times.  It never helped.  It always made it worse, because who do you think suffers when the parents are freaking out about CPS?

 

Your verifiable complaints are: filth,  no heat....they aren't going to take the kids for filth (they will order mom to clean up, and she will until they go away, then she won't anymore, all during this time and or some time after she will be freaking out even more).  Having only a fireplace isn't "no heat".  It's just not what you are used to.

 

You suspect: drugs and domestic violence.........suspicions are worth nothing.  If there were people calling the police because of DV, that would be useful, but apparently they aren't.  Screaming people suck, but that's not DV in the legal sense.  They aren't going to take her kids for that.

 

There's really only 2 things CPS can do, ultimately.  1. Take the kids (they aren't going to take the kids for the things you've listed)  2. offer help and services....except you've said this mom has already been offered help and doesn't want it.

 

If you call CPS, the mom will likely going to take it out on the kids (if not directly, then through ramping up the freaking out about it).  Then, once CPS is done with her, she will become far more reclusive and careful about hiding her life and not allow any help for the kids at all.

 

I wouldn't do it.

 

[ladyinthegarden]

Just want to address the bolded.

 

Not necessarily. There are some on this very board who have had DSS visits and been fearful but a neighbor has called because of something dumb, like kids biking outside during school hours. Being afraid does not equal wrongdoing all the time.

She won't take her children to the Dr, because she is afraid CPS will get involved. She knows she is wrong. They know they are wrong. That was all I was stating, hence the "they".

[SKL]

I am curious, OT but based on some of the comments.  Would CPS take kids because of roaches or other pests?  Aren't there places in the USA where certain pests are just a fact of life, even if you're a great parent and housekeeper?  At least that is what I've heard.

 

To me, the reportable concerns are malnutrition, lack of heat in the winter, and filth (regardless of bugs), and only because people have tried other reasonable interventions to no avail.

 

The comment about the woman not wanting to go to the doctor out of fear of CPS - I don't know - I took my kid to the doctor out of fear that someone might report the swelling around her eye (spider bite).  I understand the fear of a false report, but when I have feared that, I cleaned like a maniac and made a point to document things that might require explanations.  But anyway, even without the doctor concern, it sounds to me like an intervention is needed.  We'll see if CPS agrees.

[TammyS]

Yes, they can and will take the children because the house is filthy. Assuming it is "filthy," and not just "cluttered." 

I know of a local case where a sibling set of 7 or 8 was taken for pretty just this. The house was in a constant state of filth (as in, dangerous and unsanitary) and the parents refused to clean it. CPS tried to compel them to do so and when they wouldn't, they removed the children.

I read, unfortunately pretty frequently, on our local news about children being removed because of verifiable filth (feces, dirty diapers laying around, bugs, etc - filth of THAT variety).

 

BTDT.  All CPS ever did (and I imagine all they will do with this woman) is compel a clean up.  But CPS doesn't hang around indefinitely.  So, there's the clean up (along with screaming at the kids to clean up, and telling them what horrible little monsters they are for being so filthy, and screaming at them that they are going to end up in a foster home if they don't get it cleaned up, and the kids feeling like dirt because they are filthy little monsters who don't know that they are this way because they were never taught anything else).  Then there's a few follow up visits in which the crazy clean up is repeated.  And then CPS closes it's case, and everything goes back to the way it was before.

 

So yeah, IF the woman refuses to clean up, they'll take her kids.  But since she's already scared of CPS she'll do it.  Which means all these kids are going to get is extra stress, on top of the current stress, and no real relief.

[Ottakee]

TammyS....is there anything you wish people would have done to help you? Anything different you wish CPS would have done? Only answer if you are comfortable.

 

I ask as we are foster parents and things like this are such a struggle. We want the parents to get the help they need to make changes but yet we don't want the kids to suffer in the meantime.... Because we either did too much...or too little.

[Upennmama]

BTDT.  All CPS ever did (and I imagine all they will do with this woman) is compel a clean up.  But CPS doesn't hang around indefinitely.  So, there's the clean up (along with screaming at the kids to clean up, and telling them what horrible little monsters they are for being so filthy, and screaming at them that they are going to end up in a foster home if they don't get it cleaned up, and the kids feeling like dirt because they are filthy little monsters who don't know that they are this way because they were never taught anything else).  Then there's a few follow up visits in which the crazy clean up is repeated.  And then CPS closes it's case, and everything goes back to the way it was before.

 

So yeah, IF the woman refuses to clean up, they'll take her kids.  But since she's already scared of CPS she'll do it.  Which means all these kids are going to get is extra stress, on top of the current stress, and no real relief.

The fact is, you really don;t know this to be true. Obviously it happened in your case, but it depends on a ton of factors, and even state to state and city to city. As I said, I am parenting a child who has been here a very long time because his/her parents lived in similar situation, and he/she was removed and likely permanently. Its not true that nothing will be done long-term, necessarily, and that only a quick clean up is required. In my city (which is exceedingly poor and terribly run) parents who are living like this have to undergo therapy to work on why it's like that, parenting classes, random inspections, etc. YMMV widely. 

[TammyS]

TammyS....is there anything you wish people would have done to help you? Anything different you wish CPS would have done? Only answer if you are comfortable.

 

I ask as we are foster parents and things like this are such a struggle. We want the parents to get the help they need to make changes but yet we don't want the kids to suffer in the meantime.... Because we either did too much...or too little.

 

That's an interesting question, and tough.

 

The difficulty lies, I think, in finding the line between crappy parenting and abusive parenting.  I don't want to see a world in which crappy parents lose their kids,  because in that world no one's family is safe, because everyone is a crappy parent in someone's eyes.  My home life was abusive, for sure, but not of the horrifying "whip the kids to death" sort of thing that gives people nightmares.  Given the abuse prevalent in the foster care system (I know, I know lots of foster families are awesome...I'm just looking at the numbers), would we have been better off with in foster care?  That's difficult to say.  What would have been better for us was a permanent placement with people who were ready and willing to take on the task of not only caring for, but remediating, the lack of upbringing of kids in that kind of environment.  But where to find those?  It's easier when kids are little, but the older the kids get the tougher the remediation gets and the tougher it is to find placements. I doubt very much that we would have been better off in group homes as we got older.  I mean better fed and cleaner...but safer?  I'm not sure.

 

I almost think that CPS would have done better to asses my mother and realize (if such a realization is possible) that she wasn't going to make any real change, because she didn't think she needed to (but she was sure that CPS was evil, and her horrible children were the cause of it all coming down on her head...you had to understand my mother, to her, the worst thing we could do as kids was embarrass her),  and since they weren't about to take us into foster care, they should just leave us be.  Maybe let her know what services are available, but not force anything.  Everything that was forced made our lives worse, not better.  Maybe, maybe she would have done some of those things on her own if they hadn't been forced.  Maybe.  No guarantees. 

 

The one thing CPS did finally do was remove my younger sister (supposedly because my brother was "beating her up", but it was really a few back and forth hits, and she gave better than she got...and is, to this day, a somewhat violent person) at 15 and placed her living under the care of the parents of her 23 year old boyfriend, where, oh yes, he was living, too.  No shock she had a baby at 16. That guy is now in prison.

 

With my experiences, my personal standard for whether or not to call CPS is "Do I think these kids will be better off in foster care? and Do I think that's a likely outcome?".

 

If I was worried about food, I'd show up with groceries (and make up whatever cover story I needed).  If I was worried about heat, I would give heaters or buy some heating oil or something.  I would think it terrible if the kids were filthy, but that doesn't usually kill a person.  I might gently try to encourage something else, or I might just keep my mouth shut (depending on how I thought it would be received).  But none of those things would make me call CPS.

 

I feel for the OP, and all the people who face this decision.  I don't know whether she should call or not, because I can't see what's going on.  But I would just say that before someone makes a call, realize that when you call on the parent, you are calling on the kids, too.  And you owe it to them to ask yourself if the call what you are likely bringing down on them, and ask yourself if it's likely to be worth it.

[chiguirre]

Aren't there places in the USA where certain pests are just a fact of life, even if you're a great parent and housekeeper?  At least that is what I've heard.

In Houston, the big, 3 inch roaches are unavoidable if you have a garden. They live outside and sometimes get in. They'll die on their own in a day or two because your house is not a good habitat for them. The little roaches that live in your house are a different species. I've never had them in Texas, only in my student apartments in Philly. I'm not sure that you can eradicate them if you live in an apartment building. You depend on your neighbors and the building maintenance to do their part too. If you had those cockroaches in a single family dwelling, that might be a comment on your housekeeping and extermination services, but you might just have inherited the problem. Maggots and meal bugs are definitely the housekeeper's fault. I'm sure CPS knows the difference. After all, they deal with the same bugs the rest of us do.

[texasmama]

No one can accurately predict the response of CPS to a report or the response of parents to an investigation.  I've been on the inside of the system, and I can't predict these things.

 

 

[Ottakee]

Tammy S....thanks for your response.

 

I agree that ideally others would step in with food, helping the mother, heat, etc if she will take the help.

 

We are blessed to live in an area with many wonderful foster homes. I know that not all areas have the best homes.

[frogger]

First, thank you for sharing Tammy.

 

I have struggled with this decision before and it is impossible to know for sure if the child would be better off unless you know that they can be placed with you or something like that.

 

I agree with the above that says if it isn't obvious outright abuse (according to the state) it may just make things worse for the child. On the other hand, if you didn't and something terrible happened (they were killed in a meth episode or something) the guilt would hang over your head regardless of whether you deserved it or not. Well, I should say it would me at least.

 

I guess I give advice like an elf or a two handed economist. Not much help.

[Pamela H in Texas]

With my experiences, my personal standard for whether or not to call CPS is "Do I think these kids will be better off in foster care? and Do I think that's a likely outcome?"

 

 

Even this is a hard call.  If all kids got great foster homes where they would be loved, cared for, given life skills, given opportunities, etc, then even if iffy situations, I'd prefer them to get that chance and their parents to get a wake up call and some help.

Unfortunately, this is not the case.  I want to believe it is just a few bad apples, but when you hear foster children share their experiences in fostercare, it is NOT just a few bad apples.  When they tell it, it is more likely than not they will be in a home where it is unhealthy, unsafe, unsanitary, unloving, unkind, unfriendly.  

 

I don't know what to believe and I'm part of the system.  It doesn't help that on the foster care boards, in the last two days, two articles have been posted about the conditions foster kids live in within two different state systems (one being my own).  It is really really bad.  Additionally, I've gotten more than one set of kids who were mistreated to some degree or another at their previous foster home.  And almost all of them have bounced around so much that they live in fear constantly.  

 

This standard is soooo hard to go by because who would want to subject almost any child to a year in fostercare? 

 

The hope is that the family would straighten up with the kids still in the home.  The second hope is that there is some family member who will treat the kids well.  The third is that they would go to a foster home who would be ideal whether temporarily or forever, that they wouldn't bounce around or be mistreated. 

 

I think I'd still make the call.  There are enough red flags in the original post.  And I'd never forgive myself for turning a blind eye.

[frogger]

I know governments by nature do a bad job because of faulty incentives but it really makes me wonder why so many of these terrible foster families are getting through their background checks and home studies. I've seen this first hand. People who have 10 kids (mostly foster children) who well, to keep it simple, shouldn't. They just plain shouldn't have foster kids. I suppose that would call for a whole new thread though.

 

Edited to add, perhaps they are just too short on foster parents to turn them away?

Edited December 21, 2015 by frogger

[wonderchica]

I am curious, OT but based on some of the comments. Would CPS take kids because of roaches or other pests? Aren't there places in the USA where certain pests are just a fact of life, even if you're a great parent and housekeeper? At least that is what I've heard.

 

I live in an area with large outdoor roaches (like to live in all the pine straw) and I do home visits for a living. Trust me, there's a big difference between the occasional outdoor roach who crawls under my front door and sitting on someone's couch for 20 minutes while counting 10+ roaches crawling up the walls and across the floors. Some people live like that, and it's definitely not normal no matter where you live.

[La Condessa]

Dad beating mom in front of the kids is enough reason on it's own that they can take the kids, if mom refuses to do anything about it. Physical abuse in the home does not have to be against the children directly to be cause for removal.

[LucyStoner]

BTDT. Things did get better when we called. Then they got worse again and now we regularly provide care to the kids. The state involvement has helped the mom get counseling and treatment for PTSD and given her support in finding better housing and making sure the kids are in counseling (for having been neglected, abused and witnessed extreme and physical DV).

 

The CPS systems vary wildly. The outcome is never certain. Things may or may not be positively impacted by your call. But what will you do, how will you feel when you see these kids grown up and repeating this cycle and wondering if it might have been different for them? The first step to ending DV is to bring it to light.

 

No amount of help I can (and do) provide- no groceries bought, meals cooked, utility bills paid, housing ombudsmen called, doctors and dentist appointments I drive them to, shoes and pajamas I buy, cookies I bake with them, homework help I offer, scouts and extracurriculars I arrange and drive them to is a substitute for the legal protections and oversight afforded to them by the state. Just like the state can't do my job as their aunt, I can't really do the state's job either.

[kiwik]

If required will you provide care?  If so you don't need to worry about whether the foster system is terrible where you are.  Where I am I wouldn't expect action for what you report until next year at this point.  Also if they were removed they would probably repeatedly be returned to the parent and you would get them back and be required to fix them up each time.

 

I would report it just to have it on the record.  And if you don't see anything happen report again.

 

 

[TammyS]

Dad beating mom in front of the kids is enough reason on it's own that they can take the kids, if mom refuses to do anything about it. Physical abuse in the home does not have to be against the children directly to be cause for removal.

 

Did I miss something?  The OP doesn't say that the dad was beating mom up (in front of kids or not).  It says they constantly scream at each other (which totally sucks, but is not beating someone up).

[Haiku]

I used to work for a foster care agency. The things the OP reported would definitely warrant removal of the children. It's not automatic, but no CPS worker I ever worked with would witness a situation like the one described and say, "Nope. Nothing to see here." The children would be removed or, at the very least, a case plan would be written and monitored every two weeks, and if there was not sufficient progress the children would be removed.

 

I had more children on my caseload who were removed for things like this than for outright physical or sexual abuse. Neglect was the number one factor.

[Bluegoat]

Did I miss something?  The OP doesn't say that the dad was beating mom up (in front of kids or not).  It says they constantly scream at each other (which totally sucks, but is not beating someone up).

 

The OP said the son talked about the dad beating up the mom.

[texasmama]

More children die from neglect than abuse.  The younger the child, the greater the risk.

 

 

[Caroline]

More children die from neglect than abuse. The younger the child, the greater the risk.

This needs repeating.

[73349]

The persistent odor might be from dental rot. Have these kids been to a dentist? Do they have dental coverage (maybe from the state?) so that you could bring them in if the mom hasn't?

[goldberry]

Nothing useful to add, but this whole thread and especially Tammy's experiences just makes me so sad for what kids are going through.  It's such a complicated issue, but we can't give up trying.

[goldberry]

Question:  Are foster homes not adequately monitored that there is so much abuse and neglect able to go on in some of them?  Do foster homes not have followup visits, etc?

[Ottakee]

Question: Are foster homes not adequately monitored that there is so much abuse and neglect able to go on in some of them? Do foster homes not have followup visits, etc?

In our area of West Michigan we are closely monitored. We go through about 6 months of training and home visits before you can even take a placement. Then we have at least once a month social.worker visits, some unannounced. Child has counseling weekly as well.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Question:  Are foster homes not adequately monitored that there is so much abuse and neglect able to go on in some of them?  Do foster homes not have followup visits, etc?

 

 

Here, a foster family has to do about 150+ pages of paperwork, have a homestudy consisting of several visits out to the house, and do 30-40 hours of training.  They also have to have verification from their doctor, do background checks (including FBI fingerprinting), and anything questionable has to be dealt with (a crime from 1998 or mental health issues back in 2005 or previous foster parent applications or whatever).  

 

After licensing, there are A LOT of people in your home.  CPS workers are supposed to come monthly.  Agency workers are supposed to come 1-4 times per month depending on level of care required by the children and agency policy.  CPS workers CAN come announced or unannounced. The lawyers usually come before court hearings (which can be more than monthly or as few as every 3 months until rights are terminated then it is only every six months).  CASA workers are supposed to come at least monthly.  Children are often seen by therapists (play/cognitive, OT, ST, PT, ECI, etc) and often in the home.  The state licensing people can come in ANYTIME announced or unannounced.  Any time there is an investigation, most of the team plus licensing will be at your door within a very short time period.  

 

Additionally, we are required to have 30 hours EACH of training yearly.  There are monthly reports, quarterly inspections, and yearly recertifications.  We have to turn in all information about doctor's appointments and log every medication given.  We have to have rules, schedules, and property inventories done every quarter.  We have to do fire drills quarterly (in my old county, it was monthly).  We have to PROVE psychotrophic medication is necessary.  We have to document A LOT to get kids' levels of care raised.  

 

Basically, to be honest, I have NO IDEA how on earth all these neglectful and abusive foster homes stay open.  My family works DAILY to stay within compliance.  It is WORK. 

 

But again, I know what I've been told by kids.  I know what is reported by older children in the system.  I know what is in the news.  The fact is that SOMEHOW neglect and abuse continues to happen....a lot.  

 

I *really* wish kids coming into care were safe but what information available says that in general, they are not safer in care :( And certain crimes happen to them more in care than in birth families.  

 

That doesn't mean not to call.  Most children are able to be helped within the family setting, either their parents' homes or with relatives.  And they ALL deserve a chance.  I just wish that fostercare meant kids were coming in to homes like my own, not the terrible horror houses described by too many people :(

[SKL]

I had to qualify under the state foster care rules in order to be an adoptive parent.  It was a lot of stuff.  I was impressed our state was taking care of kids.  Then around the time I adopted my kids, there was a news story about something really horrific, long-term and involving many kids, that had happened in a foster home in our state.  So I guess there are at least some places where they really just don't monitor foster homes.

 

I kinda think they should all get a surprise visit from time to time, just to make sure they aren't tying the kids up like animals (or worse).

 

No offense to the foster moms on this thread, but you know it happens.

[TammyS]

Question:  Are foster homes not adequately monitored that there is so much abuse and neglect able to go on in some of them?  Do foster homes not have followup visits, etc?

 

I don't know this for sure, but I suspect that it's a mechanism similar to places where homeschoolers have to go through some sort of review with their local board of ed or school district.  It can go on for years, just fine and easy as pie, then a new person fills the job and decides to make life as hard as possible for the homeschoolers.  No law or policy changed, but the person did.

 

So, in some places, the people who are in charge of monitoring foster homes do a good job and stay on top of things.  In some places, they are total slackers.  In a few sad cases, they are in cahoots with terrible foster parents.  Just depends on the person who is there at the time.

[Haiku]

It's also different with kinship care (including fictive kin arrangements). Where I worked, there were fewer requirements for kinship care.

[displace]

Here, a foster family has to do about 150+ pages of paperwork, have a homestudy consisting of several visits out to the house, and do 30-40 hours of training. They also have to have verification from their doctor, do background checks (including FBI fingerprinting), and anything questionable has to be dealt with (a crime from 1998 or mental health issues back in 2005 or previous foster parent applications or whatever).

 

After licensing, there are A LOT of people in your home. CPS workers are supposed to come monthly. Agency workers are supposed to come 1-4 times per month depending on level of care required by the children and agency policy. CPS workers CAN come announced or unannounced. The lawyers usually come before court hearings (which can be more than monthly or as few as every 3 months until rights are terminated then it is only every six months). CASA workers are supposed to come at least monthly. Children are often seen by therapists (play/cognitive, OT, ST, PT, ECI, etc) and often in the home. The state licensing people can come in ANYTIME announced or unannounced. Any time there is an investigation, most of the team plus licensing will be at your door within a very short time period.

 

Additionally, we are required to have 30 hours EACH of training yearly. There are monthly reports, quarterly inspections, and yearly recertifications. We have to turn in all information about doctor's appointments and log every medication given. We have to have rules, schedules, and property inventories done every quarter. We have to do fire drills quarterly (in my old county, it was monthly). We have to PROVE psychotrophic medication is necessary. We have to document A LOT to get kids' levels of care raised.

 

Basically, to be honest, I have NO IDEA how on earth all these neglectful and abusive foster homes stay open. My family works DAILY to stay within compliance. It is WORK.

 

But again, I know what I've been told by kids. I know what is reported by older children in the system. I know what is in the news. The fact is that SOMEHOW neglect and abuse continues to happen....a lot.

 

I *really* wish kids coming into care were safe but what information available says that in general, they are not safer in care :( And certain crimes happen to them more in care than in birth families.

 

That doesn't mean not to call. Most children are able to be helped within the family setting, either their parents' homes or with relatives. And they ALL deserve a chance. I just wish that fostercare meant kids were coming in to homes like my own, not the terrible horror houses described by too many people :(

I had no idea how much work a foster parent is. Thank you for doing it.

[Ottakee]

I had no idea how much work a foster parent is. Thank you for doing it.

It is a lot of work and the transporting if the child can be excessive. At $17/day for their care..... transportation, food, hair cuts, social activities, clothing, etc. Foster parents aren't getting rich.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

If I was worried about food, I'd show up with groceries (and make up whatever cover story I needed). If I was worried about heat, I would give heaters or buy some heating oil or something. I would think it terrible if the kids were filthy, but that doesn't usually kill a person. I might gently try to encourage something else, or I might just keep my mouth shut (depending on how I thought it would be received). But none of those things would make me call CPS.

Sometimes getting in the home is a problem. The doors are locked and no cover story is working.

 

The electric and gas/oil are a problem month after month. Can you afford that? I know I can't.

 

The kid is begging for help, and you're there, but you can't force anything. You can't even clean because mom's anxiety about throwing stuff away is too intense; but you tried, and did make a dent. Even when you did help clean, there's no where for the garbage to go. So you call for a one time pickup. But that needs to happen weekly and the household is refusing regular pickups.

 

Soon enough, the closely surrounding world is shifting blame to you; you're enabling the behavior. They're forgetting that the household behavior is not new.

 

But you ignore them. You keep helping. Eventually the kids are making it to school more often, so you know food is happening. You even start to provide school snack and after school snack.

 

Then you notice that school attendance is dwindling again. Your cover stories are failing. The household is refusing the help while telling you how great everything is. But behind the happy parent is a sad, and by now hungry kid begging for help.

[TammyS]

Sometimes getting in the home is a problem. The doors are locked and no cover story is working.

 

The electric and gas/oil are a problem month after month. Can you afford that? I know I can't.

 

The kid is begging for help, and you're there, but you can't force anything. You can't even clean because mom's anxiety about throwing stuff away is too intense; but you tried, and did make a dent. Even when you did help clean, there's no where for the garbage to go. So you call for a one time pickup. But that needs to happen weekly and the household is refusing regular pickups.

 

Soon enough, the closely surrounding world is shifting blame to you; you're enabling the behavior. They're forgetting that the household behavior is not new.

 

But you ignore them. You keep helping. Eventually the kids are making it to school more often, so you know food is happening. You even start to provide school snack and after school snack.

 

Then you notice that school attendance is dwindling again. Your cover stories are failing. The household is refusing the help while telling you how great everything is. But behind the happy parent is a sad, and by now hungry kid begging for help.

 

What is your point?  That offering the family help might not work?  Well, duh. 

 

My point is that forcing the family to "get help" through CPS will not only not work (short of removing the kids, and I've already stated that I think it's unlikely), but will make things worse.

 

I'd rather fail all day long than make things worse for those kids.

[ktgrok]

If she's willing to foster the kids herself, that means that if they are removed she knows they will be in a better situaiton. 

[amo_mea_filiis.]

What is your point? That offering the family help might not work? Well, duh.

 

My point is that forcing the family to "get help" through CPS will not only not work (short of removing the kids, and I've already stated that I think it's unlikely), but will make things worse.

 

I'd rather fail all day long than make things worse for those kids.

Then what? Just throw your hands up and say forget it?

[Daria]

If she's willing to foster the kids herself, that means that if they are removed she knows they will be in a better situaiton. 

 

At least where I am, kids only go into kinship care with the consent of the bio parents, and only after a process of vetting the home where they'll be staying.

 

So, it's not a guarantee that she'll get the kids, and if she does, there will be a period of time before they come to her.

[goldberry]

 No law or policy changed, but the person did.

 

So, in some places, the people who are in charge of monitoring foster homes do a good job and stay on top of things.  In some places, they are total slackers.  In a few sad cases, they are in cahoots with terrible foster parents.  Just depends on the person who is there at the time.

 

That answer makes a lot of sense.  It seems like there needs to be a focus on stronger supervision all the way up the chain of command then.

 

I wonder about the requirements for kin. It seems the important part of this equation is ongoing monitoring, not just initially.  I could see that being lax for kin or fictive kin, which it really shouldn't be.  But I would also guess kin are more likely to care about kids. I guess that's a stupid assumption though, considering that it is the bio parents who result in the kids being removed.

 

Are there any statistics about where the abuses in foster care are more likely to happen?  Kin or not?  Multiple children, over a certain number? 

 

eta off to google..

Edited December 22, 2015 by goldberry

[ChocolateReignRemix]

What is your point? That offering the family help might not work? Well, duh.

 

My point is that forcing the family to "get help" through CPS will not only not work (short of removing the kids, and I've already stated that I think it's unlikely), but will make things worse.

 

I'd rather fail all day long than make things worse for those kids.

You don't know that to be true and cannot state that as a fact.

 

The mental gymnastics some on here perform to justify not helping children in need make me smack my head in frustration.

Edited December 22, 2015 by ChocolateReignRemix

[texasmama]

Again, there is no way to accurately predict the outcome of a CPS report or the outcome of CPS involvement.  CPS involvement does not "make things worse" for every child.  CPS involvement in a family's life is not without risks, but NOT reporting and leaving everyone to their own devices has known risks, as well.

 

This is why the general public should not be trying to make these decisions, essentially performing the investigation with no experience or knowledge.  If you suspect child abuse or neglect, make the report.  That is what is required of you.  

 

If it is within your power to help the family, absolutely do so.  If not, or if your efforts are not enough, call CPS.  

 

Again, the response of CPS varies so widely from county to county and state to state that it is not possible to predict an outcome.

[Scarlett]

Uuuuggghhh. I know. I think I need offers to confirm my gut.

 

The only thing I am not sure about is the drugs. They used to use a lot, but I don't know if they are currently. It is only a suspicion.

 

Whew. I hate this. I'll call.

 

Does anyone know how long it takes for them to respond to this type of call. The big is currently at our house for the next three days of so. I wonder if that should come here for him?

Did you call? Do you still have your nephew?

[muttmomma]

No he went home. She was suppose you take him to the doctor today, but I have not heard from her.

 

I'm feeling gun shy about calling. I don't think he could stay here longer than a visit. We don't physically have the room right now. I WANT it to be such that we could, but I just don't. And while I have nothing to hide, inviting cps into our lives isn't an inviting thought, either.

 

I just worry about if that did get taken, that foster care would be worse. Their situation is bad.... I'm just not sure right now.

[SKL]

I understand the fear and uncertainty.  I have step-relatives who have been at risk with their kids, but they had close people who prevented it from getting that bad.  Their kids have lived with extended family a lot.

[frogger]

I have seen a couple foster families make me flinch but I have also seen many many loving, kind, and caring foster families. I'm curious if this is like many other things where people only hear the bad stories because the many stable caring foster families don't make news.

 

You also don't know if they will be taken at all. Also, there is a possibility that another family member may be interested or that you can be involved in what in my state is called a family action plan. Perhaps either way you can still try to stay involved in his life to help out.

[Melissa in Australia]

I have seen a couple foster families make me flinch but I have also seen many many loving, kind, and caring foster families. I'm curious if this is like many other things where people only hear the bad stories because the many stable caring foster families don't make news.

 

You also don't know if they will be taken at all. Also, there is a possibility that another family member may be interested or that you can be involved in what in my state is called a family action plan. Perhaps either way you can still try to stay involved in his life to help out.

 

 

If we only went by news reports to get information then we would form a very negative opinion of other things - like say - homeschooling.

 

 

I know many fantastic foster families. I know some children who would have seriously been physically, emotionally and developmentally harmed by not being removed and placed in foster care.

 

 

I personally only know one foster family that should not be fostering - and they were probably fine for the first 25 years of fostering, but in their late 60's are really past it and are actually causing trauma in children now.

[Pamela H in Texas]

And foster care could be absolutely awesome for them.  

Also, depending on where you are, fictive kin may be an option also.  

[muttmomma]

I am laying here tonight with such inner conflict.

 

This family has been in turmoil for the least several weeks. Parents shouting at each other multiple times a day, right there with the kids.

 

Still no heat. It is ten degrees here. They are out of wood for the fireplace, and have one space heater in a bedroom.

[Scarlett]

I am laying here tonight with such inner conflict.

 

This family has been in turmoil for the least several weeks. Parents shouting at each other multiple times a day, right there with the kids.

 

Still no heat. It is ten degrees here. They are out of wood for the fireplace, and have one space heater in a bedroom.

I think you are out of options. :( please call.