All4one Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 My dd in ps hs brought home a form asking the the parents to be involved in an online health and fitness survey. The form emphasized it was completely voluntary and parents can opt out any time after. I declined to participate. A few days later my dd brings home the same form and tells me her teacher said everyone participates and bring back the signed form. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think the teacher is obviously mistaken. Ignore it. The teacher will catch on eventually. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 If I really didn't want to do the survey, then I think I would highlight the part where it says that it is completely voluntary. Then I would write in pen, "I am opting out of this survey." and sign my name. Just a question though - is the survey that personal? Or is it just something where you can put down that you exercise X times a week and eat your veggies. If it isn't personal, I would just do it. I assume the intent is to teach the kids about good health practices. 24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Email teacher to clarify. If she insists all must participate, then you need to decide is this important for you to argue. Is it too intrusive, etc. If no, just do it. If yes, then contact the teacher again regarding what requirements are met by the assignment, etc. If she doesn't back off with a written guarantee of no penalty, then you move up the chain of command with the department chair and principal. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Does the paper form have a place for you to mark that you opt out? It could just be that everyone participates by acknowledging receipt of form and signing it and returning it. We've had several of those. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I would email the teacher to clarify and cc the principal. I agree that it may be that you simply need to acknowledge that you received the form and were given the option to participate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4one Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 The form did have an opt-out portion to sign which I did send back. Honestly it sounds like a long survey where they are data-mining and it is more than one time. I feel like my kid is being strong-armed because she was upset when I said I didn't have to participate. She wanted to know what to tell her teacher so I said he needed to send me a form where it says I must participate. The form now says I read and voluntarily agree to participate. Before it was inconvenient now it's become matter of principle. I don't want her thinking she has to answer everything she's asked because someone says she has to, KWIM? 😒 44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It does feel pushy at this point. The form still says participation is voluntary. I'd write "I decline to participate. Please contact me with any questions" at the bottom and sign that. I might also contact the teacher directly and, as others have suggested, the next person up the food chain if need be. I think your instinct to teach her that she doesn't always have to answer everything she's asked is a good one. "None of your business" phrased more politely when the situation requires, is an acceptable answer. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 If you sent in an opt out form, I would write that on this form. "You already have my signature opting out of this survey." And I definitely would cc or even talk to the principal because I would be afraid of your dd being punished in some way or shamed. Are you totally sure the one you opted out of is the same one as this one? I just would want to be extra sure of that before taking a stand. (I've had egg on my face more than once.) 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I would write a note daying you decline to participate in the survey. We used to get strongarmed about fund raising, so I feel your pain. I will send a check but will not fund raise, so we had some pretty tense moments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyThreeSons Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Your original post says "The form emphasized it was completely voluntary and parents can opt out any time after." After what? Maybe you have to sign in and then opt out? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yeah I wouldn't do it. And can I say it's a huge pet peeve of mine when teachers assign parents homework? 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4one Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Your original post says "The form emphasized it was completely voluntary and parents can opt out any time after." After what? Maybe you have to sign in and then opt out? It's more than one survey. So opt-out if you want after you started doing the surveys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Look at the info carefully. In what ways, and how many times does it mention marketing techniques? Show this to your dd. Teach her how to read critically and with an eye for skepticism. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4one Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yeah I wouldn't do it. And can I say it's a huge pet peeve of mine when teachers assign parents homework? Yeah, this is why I first said no. It's inconvenient and I don't like online surveys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4one Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 If you sent in an opt out form, I would write that on this form. "You already have my signature opting out of this survey." And I definitely would cc or even talk to the principal because I would be afraid of your dd being punished in some way or shamed. Are you totally sure the one you opted out of is the same one as this one? I just would want to be extra sure of that before taking a stand. (I've had egg on my face more than once.) It's exactly the same form I sent in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 you could ignore - but you might still get another one. it's also possible the teacher may think you didn't see the form. I would make a big X across the form. I'd also state - not participating, then sign the form and send that back. then the teacher will know you did get it - and you are opting out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I would think the teacher can go stuff it. I wouldn't ignore it, but send in a notice (cc the principal) and tell her it is a privacy violation and you won't be participating. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4one Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Look at the info carefully. In what ways, and how many times does it mention marketing techniques? Show this to your dd. Teach her how to read critically and with an eye for skepticism.Well it doesn't actually but in my old life I did this kind of survey research so I have an idea how the info will be used. It's more of a hunch. Honestly I think I'm just digging my heels in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 If I really didn't want to do the survey, then I think I would highlight the part where it says that it is completely voluntary. Then I would write in pen, "I am opting out of this survey." and sign my name. Just a question though - is the survey that personal? Or is it just something where you can put down that you exercise X times a week and eat your veggies. If it isn't personal, I would just do it. I assume the intent is to teach the kids about good health practices. I agree with the bolded, but I don't care how general the questions are - they are none of the teacher's business. eta: and yes, I'd cc the principle on everything because if the teacher is strongarming students to get their parents to participate - that type of teacher could well engage in punitive retribution. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think a lot of people on this board are a little too cagey about stuff like being asked a couple of questions. But this sounds like it's more than that. I would be especially irked that it said it was voluntary and then your dd is told you must do it. I feel like I've seen that a lot lately - where they say "voluntary" because it sounds good, not because they think it means anything. Ugh. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Well it doesn't actually but in my old life I did this kind of survey research so I have an idea how the info will be used. It's more of a hunch. It should be disclosed somewhere if they're asking for personal info. It may be in a link or reference elsewhere, but I'd not be surprised if this little exercise wasn't sponsored by some company who is using education as part of their marketing structure. And now I've got South Park's Steve Job's voice in my head yelling, "But can it READ!!!" Honestly I think I'm just digging my heels in. I can totally appreciate that. :laugh: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 My dd in ps hs brought home a form asking the the parents to be involved in an online health and fitness survey. The form emphasized it was completely voluntary and parents can opt out any time after. I declined to participate. A few days later my dd brings home the same form and tells me her teacher said everyone participates and bring back the signed form. What do you think? Absolutely not. What the heck does the school need to know about parents' health and fitness??? Send the form back with a note on it saying that you are not going to participate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The form did have an opt-out portion to sign which I did send back. Honestly it sounds like a long survey where they are data-mining and it is more than one time. I feel like my kid is being strong-armed because she was upset when I said I didn't have to participate. She wanted to know what to tell her teacher so I said he needed to send me a form where it says I must participate. The form now says I read and voluntarily agree to participate. Before it was inconvenient now it's become matter of principle. I don't want her thinking she has to answer everything she's asked because someone says she has to, KWIM? 😒 There is no way that this survey could be mandatory, for crying out loud. I'm with you on its being a matter of principle. You have my complete support. ITA with the others: write a note in clear and precise terms stating that you will not at this time or any other participate in such a survey, and to stop involving the children in this, and send a copy to the principal, administrator, school board, and anyone else you can think of. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I'd write in huge permanent marker "I ALREADY OPTED OUT. YOU WILL NOT USE MY FAMILY FOR DATA MINING. IF YOU ASK AGAIN I WILL ESCALATE TO AN ATTORNEY AND THE SCHOOL BOARD." and then sign. Or at least I would think about it. In reality I would probably send a similarly sentiment but less rude response in email to the teacher and CC in the principal. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Sounds too much like the recent online health form I got at work in order to get a "free" flu shot by an independent provider, not our health insurance, where the form asked for my mother's maiden name. Um, no way, no how. You can give your free to someone else, TYVM. I agree you should dig in your heels and do what Katy just suggested. :thumbup1: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 It's just the system. You have opted out, and they have an obligation to keep trying, for some stupid incompetent school system related reason like possibly they are checking off the boxes (tried 3 times, check!). I opted DD out of 8th grade testing in writing in advance, and we got no less than 2 letters and 5 phone calls demanding that she attend. Each time I actually talked with someone I told them that I had opted out in writing in advance. They can't actually make you do this stuff, but that is news to them. I was careful to be really nice about it, even to those who called up steamed already. It's their system, and it's the fact that they think they are in charge. No need to feed either one, but no need to let them make me be rude either. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I'd write in huge permanent marker "I ALREADY OPTED OUT. YOU WILL NOT USE MY FAMILY FOR DATA MINING. IF YOU ASK AGAIN I WILL ESCALATE TO AN ATTORNEY AND THE SCHOOL BOARD." and then sign. Or at least I would think about it. In reality I would probably send a similarly sentiment but less rude response in email to the teacher and CC in the principal. I don't know... I think a case can definitely be made for telling it like it is! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Some of the things I've heard of recently where a student has to do something that seems absurd... some I know has a middle schooler at a school where they demanded he have a smart phone for assignments and that he bring it to class. Kids who didn't bring one had their grades docked. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's dd loses some sort of grade over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I agree with your principles and would bring it to the school personally and let them know why you won't be filling it out. I have a feeling they could make your daughter a bit uncomfortable about it otherwise. This is your issue with the teacher/school, not hers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Some of the things I've heard of recently where a student has to do something that seems absurd... some I know has a middle schooler at a school where they demanded he have a smart phone for assignments and that he bring it to class. Kids who didn't bring one had their grades docked. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's dd loses some sort of grade over this. WHAT?! And if a family can't afford such for a kid? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Lots of good advice already so I'm just adding my voice in support of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Some of the things I've heard of recently where a student has to do something that seems absurd... some I know has a middle schooler at a school where they demanded he have a smart phone for assignments and that he bring it to class. Kids who didn't bring one had their grades docked. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's dd loses some sort of grade over this. I've seen this for math in elementary school -- where they need a phone or iPod to read the QR codes to get the link to the lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Some of the things I've heard of recently where a student has to do something that seems absurd... some I know has a middle schooler at a school where they demanded he have a smart phone for assignments and that he bring it to class. Kids who didn't bring one had their grades docked. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's dd loses some sort of grade over this. Insane. This would infuriate me. A school does not have the right to make that decision for my kid. Or my budget. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All4one Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Dd just informed me I'm getting an email from the teacher. Can't wait! /s 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Dd just informed me I'm getting an email from the teacher. Can't wait! /s :lol: I'm sure you're shaking in your boots. Can't wait to hear what it says. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Dd just informed me I'm getting an email from the teacher. Can't wait! /s Oh, PLEASE copy/paste both the email and your response for us. Since we homeschool I need to live vicariously through other people's school drama. :lol: 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Dd just informed me I'm getting an email from the teacher. Can't wait! /s Oh my. I wonder if the school has some kind of incentive to get all the parents to participate. If there is a business involved, does the school get a prize of some kind? It's crazy and very intrusive. I wouldn't do it either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Some of the things I've heard of recently where a student has to do something that seems absurd... some I know has a middle schooler at a school where they demanded he have a smart phone for assignments and that he bring it to class. Kids who didn't bring one had their grades docked. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's dd loses some sort of grade over this. That's outrageous. My 20yo college sophomore doesn't have a smart phone, nor does my 10th grader. Lots of adults don't have them. I got my first one two years ago. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Subbing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Dd just informed me I'm getting an email from the teacher. Can't wait! /s The teacher needs to stop pressuring your dd about this survey. NOW. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Insane. This would infuriate me. A school does not have the right to make that decision for my kid. Or my budget. Yeah. I was so surprised when she posted that on FB but then a bunch of her friends posted and backed her up with their own stories of how their kids lost out on grades for forgetting them or not having them in class. Apparently a non-phone smart device was also acceptable, but still. I mean, come on. I've taught and can imagine asking the class if kids had one to bring them to share for some specific lesson or something, but I can't imagine predicating an entire class on the assumption that every kid would have them. Or setting up assignments so that they're impossible to do without them. Bah. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Holy crap, even if my kids do have devices I'd demand a meeting with teacher and principal and that policy would be changed immediately. A smart phone is not on the school supply list, and if they are stupid enough to use a curriculum that demands it they should use their funding to purchase devices. It is completely unethical to systematically dock the grades of children who cannot afford them, and probably illegal. If it's not illegal it should be. Of all the stupid school stories I've heard recently... 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BooksandBoys Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Dd just informed me I'm getting an email from the teacher. Can't wait! /s I hope you share it with us!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Can't wait for the email! Dear parent, I don't know what the word "voluntary" means but that's ok with me. I'm only a teacher after all. I'm pretty sure I should teach your daughter to comply with everything, all the time. The world needs more compliant women with low vocabulary skills, so we all just need to do our part! Your co-operation is appreciated. And by co-operation I mean compliance of course. I just didn't want to sound repetitive. Sincerely, Teacher with Priorites 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Lots of good advice already so I'm just adding my voice in support of you. Ditto. Dig in, sister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yeah. I was so surprised when she posted that on FB but then a bunch of her friends posted and backed her up with their own stories of how their kids lost out on grades for forgetting them or not having them in class. Apparently a non-phone smart device was also acceptable, but still. I mean, come on. I've taught and can imagine asking the class if kids had one to bring them to share for some specific lesson or something, but I can't imagine predicating an entire class on the assumption that every kid would have them. Or setting up assignments so that they're impossible to do without them. Bah. This is my life. DS just got an iPod as present from family and he insisted that he had to bring it to school. According to documents I signed, there's a strict no electronics policy. But when I asked the teachers, yes, the kids needed electronics with wifi to read the textbooks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Can't wait for the email! Dear parent, I don't know what the word "voluntary" means but that's ok with me. I'm only a teacher after all. I'm pretty sure I should teach your daughter to comply with everything, all the time. The world needs more compliant women with low vocabulary skills, so we all just need to do our part! Your co-operation is appreciated. And by co-operation I mean compliance of course. I just didn't want to sound repetitive. Sincerely, Teacher with Priorites Dear Teacher, Thank you for explaining how the voluntary procedure of your latest educational assignment allows for the family of the student to voluntarily opt for harassment in the form of checking off the "no" option on the form. How wonderful to find the many options I now have to contribute to the marketing tactics of whatever private organization promotes and funds this assignment. Personally, I think public education goes to far when it demands objective facts to be the focus of education rather than the capitalistic venture of one's future transnational employer and social media overseer. Along these lines, I'd like to help my daughter contribute to her public education and the public education of everyone in her class by providing her the opportunity to data-mine seemingly unrelated but prospective consumers in such a way that gives the appearance of being helpful to the public good. We will meet you at your home on Sunday morning at 7:00 am so we can practice the various success and failures of different styles of questionnaires. Dd will follow up in 4-6 weeks to provide feedback helpful to you, but mostly helpful to her, as she would like to avoid being the target of frustration or impatience due to subsequent targets, or "potential consumers," as we like to call them. Having your credit card available at the beginning will be most helpful for purchasing products dd will determine you're likely to enjoy, which you will see in 4-6 weeks. There will be no obligation to you, as you can easily go to the post office and return said products before the 90 day return policy date comes due. Individual services will follow their own return policies, and you agree to no legal or social obligation on dd's part to follow through. See you Sunday! PS, we like home made gluten free cinnamon rolls and organic chai lattes (decaf for dd!), thank you for your consideration. Signed, All4One 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Oh, PLEASE copy/paste both the email and your response for us. Since we homeschool I need to live vicariously through other people's school drama. :lol: certain local newstation people helper love this type of stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Dear Teacher, Thank you for explaining how the voluntary procedure of your latest educational assignment allows for the family of the student to voluntarily opt for harassment in the form of checking off the "no" option on the form. How wonderful to find the many options I now have to contribute to the marketing tactics of whatever private organization promotes and funds this assignment. Personally, I think public education goes to far when it demands objective facts to be the focus of education rather than the capitalistic venture of one's future transnational employer and social media overseer. Along these lines, I'd like to help my daughter contribute to her public education and the public education of everyone in her class by providing her the opportunity to data-mine seemingly unrelated but prospective consumers in such a way that gives the appearance of being helpful to the public good. We will meet you at your home on Sunday morning at 7:00 am so we can practice the various success and failures of different styles of questionnaires. Dd will follow up in 4-6 weeks to provide feedback helpful to you, but mostly helpful to her, as she would like to avoid being the target of frustration or impatience due to subsequent targets, or "potential consumers," as we like to call them. Having your credit card available at the beginning will be most helpful for purchasing products dd will determine you're likely to enjoy, which you will see in 4-6 weeks. There will be no obligation to you, as you can easily go to the post office and return said products before the 90 day return policy date comes due. Individual services will follow their own return policies, and you agree to no legal or social obligation on dd's part to follow through. See you Sunday! PS, we like home made gluten free cinnamon rolls and organic chai lattes (decaf for dd!), thank you for your consideration. Signed, All4One Dear All4One, Too long. Didn't read. I like lattes too! :-) Sending another form. (You. Will. Com-ply! Com-ply! Com-ply!) Hem. I mean, thank you for your com-pl-- co-operation. Education is important. :-) Sincerely, Teacher with Persistance. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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