ByGrace3 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Is there a statue of limitations for pastors having to report? The fondling happened 15 years ago with the inappropriate hugging ending 7 years ago from what the letter states. Does the man in question still have access to children? That would be my question. We had a recent similar situation. It came out that they use happened "a long time ago" but this man still had access to children. My dh is a mandated reporter and reported it. Either way mandated reporter or not, I would report it. Most pedophiles do not change. To protect other children, he needs to be reported. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleowl Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You are morally obliaged to report this crime. Being a mandatory reporter has nothing to do with it. Just for the record in case it wasn't clear, I do agree that there is a moral obligation here for you to report it. I posted the info about mandatory reporters because you asked whether you are LEGALLY obligated, as that would give you a reason for reporting should anyone question your choice to do so. If you don't fall into the categories listed, see if you can stretch things so that you can consider yourself part of one of them. Whatever you need to do to convince yourself to take the letter in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Do we legally have to report this? While I do not know if you do legally, I think you know you do have to report it, morally. If it bothers you enough to come to us for advice, I think deep down you already know what you need to do. Other children need to be protected from this sex offender in the future. Report it for their sakes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine.more Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Wow, I can't imagine how distraught you must be over this information, it's an awful burden! It sounds manipulative and suspicious that he'd even pass these out....he just spread very personal information about his poor daughter, basically re-victimizing her by opening her up to public stigma/embarrassment. Not that she should be embarrassed, she did nothing wrong, but who wants that kind of personal information put out there to EVERYONE they know?? And as others have said this is horribly unfair to you and every person this guy handed a letter because it puts you in a situation where to do the right thing you have to risk ostracizing yourself from your church and social group. He's totally playing you all, betting on fear, awkwardness, and a theology of forgive-and-forget to keep you all quiet and cover his own butt. I agree with others that you are morally obligated to report it. The pastor is legally required to report it and I'm appalled that he hasn't. But in lieu of other people being willing to hold up their end of the law you should definitely make a copy of the letter and turn over the original to the police and let them know that others have received the same letter, etc. I'd request to remain anonymous but know that you likely won't remain anonymous. I think it's time to look for a new church just in case this blows up and really, if this is the culture I'd be nervous about staying anyway. If the pastor is willing to look the other way about one molester surely he'd be willing to look the other way about another. ((hugs)) I'm sorry this has happened, it really sucks and I pray it works out well with the police being able to pursue this guy. At the very least by turning in the letter you can protect a future victim from being disbelieved if they report....a letter on file + a personal report of abuse will really weigh heavily against the guy and allow the police to get a more complete picture of his history of abuse. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Based on what you've said, I think you should turn this letter over to the police and immediately stop attending your church. Find a new one. If a church culture is such that it makes you afraid to do what you clearly know is right, you should run very far, very fast, and absolutely not subject yourself or your children to that culture. If you are unable to discontinue interaction with these people who are scaring you, find a way to consider yourself a mandatory reporter. Have you taught or assisted in any co-op classes, ever? "Oh, I thought that meant I was considered a classroom teacher under this statute." Do you occasionally keep the nursery at your church, or have you ever chaperoned a children's event? There's your reason. Stretch it as much as you need to in order to get yourself into one of those categories. I bet the police would even be willing to indicate in the report that you thought you were a mandatory reporter, for when the report becomes public. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 :grouphug: My advice is to turn the letter over to police. Then find a new church. I know that both are hard to do, but I think both are necessary. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I haven't read all the replies. I do know that over at The Wartburg Watch, readers agree that a truly repentant molester would be willing accept legal conequences and never being allowed children again. A repentant person wouldn't try to convince others to trust him around kids, ever. So please report this man to the police. Even if he is repentant (and these types of men are often excellent liars and manipulators), that doesn't excuse him from reaping what he sowed. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Is there a statue of limitations for pastors having to report? The fondling happened 15 years ago with the inappropriate hugging ending 7 years ago from what the letter states. What on earth is "inappropriate hugging"? Anyway, not having seen the letter, and not being familiar with your church, I'm wondering if there is a possibility of this guy being overly literal and reinterpreting something under stricter (religious) interpretations than before. The reason I'm saying this is because someone recently mentioned something about sideways hugging because normal hugging could be misinterpreted as sexual harassment or something. So, I think there is a possibility that this guy recently made a mental switch to believing that all normal hugging is *wrong* as well as whatever he describes as fondling (which, looking at the dictionary, is a horribly vague term as well), in which case this is completely different from a hard-core sexual molester. Which is also a possibility. So, yeah... I don't know. If the statute of limitations hasn't expired then the police might be able to figure out what the deal is in questioning him and the daughter about what happened. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Sin is a heart issue. I think inappropriate hugging is regular hugging with sinful thoughts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 What on earth is "inappropriate hugging"? "Inappropriate hugging" in this case is likely a minimization thinking error of a sexual perp. They are chock full of them. The "hug" likely looked quite different than he describes or anyone else would report. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I think plenty of us are assuming that the pastor has not reported this, and that fact is not in evidence. Perhaps the pastor reported it and was told the SOL had run out, and the police chose not to investigate further. Whether the pastor or other members of church leadership have reported has no bearing on what the OP should do, of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFG Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 O ETA: Sorry. Fat finger mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 A man was discovered decades ago molesting a child. It was covered up. Everyone vowed to be careful. Years later, he was caught again. Covered up and the people who didn't know about the prior incident were told to be careful. A decade later, it happened again. This time all the known incidents came to light, there was counseling and vows of repentance, but it was not brought to the police. I don't know if it happened again as the abuser was old and not physically healthy and I distanced myself from the group, but the known abuse went on for three decades. Three children abused because no one involved the authorities. Bring it to the police. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Sin is a heart issue. I think inappropriate hugging is regular hugging with sinful thoughts. Which isn't illegal, so the statute of limitations is irrelevant if that's the case. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't be wanting to make assumptions based on what someone else said someone wrote in a letter when it uses vague words like 'fondling' and 'inappropriate hugging'. I've heard of people with Asperger's being put on antipsychotics because the psychiatrist asked if they sometimes heard voices and they answered 'yes', so the psychiatrist concluded they were psychotic when the person meant they sometimes literally hear voices (because all of us do - when people talk, you hear their voices). Sure, it's possible this person has raped several kids in the neighborhood and wrote this letter to come across as an 'honest' person and is minimizing things etc. It's also possible this person recently came up with a wacky crazy interpretation of some words and is completely or almost completely harmless. Without knowing the person or having seen the letter etc I have no way of making an informed guess at what's going on. IMO, this is kind of like someone saying they neglect their kids. That could mean anything from that they lock their kids in the basement and throw them some scraps just often enough so they don't die of starvation, to it meaning that they aren't perfect parents. Just to be clear, I don't have any objections to giving the letter to the police and letting them sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Mertz Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 OP, I am really sorry you are in the middle of this situation. Unfortunately, you really do have to report this to police. You may be able to request that your name be kept anonymous. But even if you can't be anonymous, this must be reported. Sadly, you may well need to change churches. I would not be comfortable staying in a church where the leadership apparently did not report this person to the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 OP, what is the advantage to not reporting, for you? It would be less uncomfortable? You'd be doing what everyone else did, in not reporting? Wouldn't you feel worse if you learned later that another child was molested? This needs to be reported. You can do it anonymously, if you feel you must. Please don't depend on someone else reporting it. If the police get multiple reports - all the better. We know it's hard. But I think everyone here, and in most places, would support you in doing the right thing! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I would ask my husband to contact the church elders and ask if they've reported this to the police and, if not, exactly when they plan on doing so. If they haven't reported it and don't plan to, take the letter to the police and find a new church. It really is that simple (but I know that doesn't make it any easier). :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Don't wait for anyone else to act. Don't assume anyone else is going to act. YOU were given this information and YOU must respond. Legally you probably don't have to go to the police, but morally, no question. If your church isn't acting or is making you afraid to act in a very clear moral question, you need to leave the church. Get away from these people. This guy has typed up and photocopied his crazy. It's not a rumor. Now, the content may or may not be accurate, but the very act of writing the letter and passing it out is crazy. Get your kids and yourself away from the crazy and anyone who would fail to respond. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I would ask my husband to contact the church elders and ask if they've reported this to the police and, if not, exactly when they plan on doing so. If they haven't reported it and don't plan to, take the letter to the police and find a new church. It really is that simple (but I know that doesn't make it any easier). :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: This was my exact thought, but if it is mandatory for the pastor to report it I imagine she'll hear about it on Sunday. Gossip seems to be a favorite sin. He won't hurt a child this week. She has time to process this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Which isn't illegal, so the statute of limitations is irrelevant if that's the case. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't be wanting to make assumptions based on what someone else said someone wrote in a letter when it uses vague words like 'fondling' and 'inappropriate hugging'. I've heard of people with Asperger's being put on antipsychotics because the psychiatrist asked if they sometimes heard voices and they answered 'yes', so the psychiatrist concluded they were psychotic when the person meant they sometimes literally hear voices (because all of us do - when people talk, you hear their voices). Sure, it's possible this person has raped several kids in the neighborhood and wrote this letter to come across as an 'honest' person and is minimizing things etc. It's also possible this person recently came up with a wacky crazy interpretation of some words and is completely or almost completely harmless. Without knowing the person or having seen the letter etc I have no way of making an informed guess at what's going on. IMO, this is kind of like someone saying they neglect their kids. That could mean anything from that they lock their kids in the basement and throw them some scraps just often enough so they don't die of starvation, to it meaning that they aren't perfect parents. Just to be clear, I don't have any objections to giving the letter to the police and letting them sort it out. The Asperger's issue is completely unrelated to this, with no analogy to be drawn. Like substance abusers, sexual perpetrators have a well-documented penchant for underreporting behavior in order to be self-serving. This is classic behavior and not surprising. Though no one can know what really happened to the victim of this man except the victim herself, it is not at all surprising that "vague words" are used. People typically do NOT confess wrongly and out of confusion to being sexual molesters. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 This needs to be reported to the police. You can not pass the the burden off or assume someone else will (or even did if they said they did) I'm sorry this was put on your plate. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I'd take it to the police and let them decide what should be done. Absolutely. This is beyond a church counseling/church discipline situation. This may be a helpful resource for you: http://www.netgrace.org/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Are you sure that the church, or anyone else, actually haven't done anything? You might not know if they had. As far as his motivations - again, hard to say. If he has recently had some sort of religious conversion, it could be that he thinks this is what is required to "repent". I have encountered Christian groups - most often evangelical and nondenominational ones - where people who have committed a serious sin are encouraged to admit their fault to the elders and leadership and even the whole congregation as a necessary step in repentance. So perhaps that is where he is coming from. It's totally inappropriate IMO, and that is why many churches deal with such things more privately, but that idea is definitely out there. It may also be that there was something like a substance abuse issue involved - if he is doing some sort of 12 step program perhaps in his mind this is part of dealing with that, though again in a not very healthy way. But I have come to the conclusion that many people are not terribly insightful about that - maybe sometimes especially addicts who aren't far out of the grip of their addiction - even recovery can be a little self-centered at times, perhaps by necessity. On the other hand, he is possibly trying to be manipulative. Or, he may not know what to do - maybe he wants to somehow be healed and can't find any help. It may be that he is (naturally) afraid of going to jail and hasn't been brave enought to face that. It may be that his daughter has said she doesn't want to talk to the police. I think in your position, my first step might be to talk to your pastor. He may have taken action, or may know more about the situation. I am not, generally speaking, of the mind that all illegal things are best handled by reporting them to the law - lower level resolutions are often desirable for all the people involved. But I don't know that it is likely this man will be offered help or it will be able to be evaluated that he really wants it in any other way. (Actually, i doubt he will get help much even if the law is involved and he wants it, which is really quite sad.) It may be the best of bad options though. If part of the issue is that the daughter does not want to pursue it legally, I am not sure what else is to be done. I am not generally in favour of forcing people to do things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Do we legally have to report this? If you are in church leadership (especially if you provide child care on site during services) then yes, you are a mandatory reporter. Certainly morally and ethically, if not strictly by the letter of the law. I really encourage you to report it because now, knowing what you do, you are in a position to be held liable for not attempting to prevent future acts, at least under your church roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You need to report. If you call cps you can report anonymously if you want. They will tell the police if needed. If there is a file or report already they will not mind and usually just thank you for calling. Protect the children who may come into contact with him. Protect your family. Let him and his family get the help they need. Prevent future victimization by telling. Keeping secrets is never the right thing to do. Shed light on this. And since he is passing out copies to everyone it will be no surprise an anonymous report to CPS is made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I have no sympathy for molesters, believe me. But those who have committed minor offences can, at times, be rehabilitated. He has touched his daughter, this is a huge deal obviously. but IF he is being truthful, and IF he is actually repentant, the church giving up all hope on him isnt the way to deal with it. He should not under any circumstances be around anyone elses children, these letters are a blessing, you now know to ensure he does not have access to children. But there is a chance he may be genuinely repentant. A lot of abusers in churches have been called out recently and been entirely unrepentant, but it DOES happen, occasionally. It doesn't mean we accept his apologies and welcome him into our homes with children next week. But it is possible to rehabilitate a paedophile if THEY want it. The problem is, a lot of them claim they want it, but don't actually. A lot more people than would ever admit it have paedophillic thoughts at times (I am very certain of this point, and some recent studies have agreed with me, though I have been telling people this for years). Most people would never ever act on them. Even people who would rape and murder would never consider touching a child because it is so, above and beyond, wrong and deranged. Thats why it's so hard to rehabilitate the ones who have done something wrong, because it takes an especially messed up sort of person to cross the line from thought to action in the first place. But they are not all completely without hope, if they want it. For goodness sake though, OP, take NOTHING he says at face value. There's a lot of interesting articles about paedophiles after all this controversy in the church recently. A lot of them break down what the church did wrong, and why we know the abuser is unrepentant, the way they speak and their attitudes and why they are incorrect. If you want to get involved in helping him (and you do not have to, he gave these letters to multiple people, it is a valid option to simply step out of the situation) I would suggest a good starting place would be researching these many, many articles. A blog called The Common Room Blog is a homeschooling blog that has covered, and linked to, quite a lot of these articles http://thecommonroomblog.com/- try using the search bar on their website or just scrolling back. Shes very passionate about exposing these false apologies and the church's mishandling of sexual abuse confessions. Another website I have been reading is Finding a Healing Place, which is written by a woman who was married to a paedophile pastor for decades without 'realizing' it (some hidden from her, some wilful ignorance, and some abuse which controlled her) - http://www.findingahealingplace.com/ Edited to Add: in all this I forgot to say, the first sign of repentance should be being willing to accept the legal concequences of his actions. The church leadership should have reported him. They have not. In your situation I would. I would try to help him, but I would also report him. If he is truly repentant, he will be in favor of 100% transparency. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I don't know why, as a Christian, you are concerned about the law, which should be the absolute minimum standard for behavior. In my opinion, you morally have to report this to spare others. If you choose to spare yourselves the trouble even if that means other children are at risk, then that is on your conscience. I can't give legal advice, as I'm not a lawyer. Report him. Liking this twice. (Sorry for all my scrappy little replies, can't multiquote via phone.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You know, I literally shaking about all of this and the possible reprecussions for our family, so please be gentle. <please read my tone as gentle!> And who is making you feel this way? Not the opinions here, but the man who put you in the middle of his mess. This letter is possibly a cry for help from him, but even if he doesn't want it, it's a gift, to get him (a) stopped, (b) the help he needs, © intervention for other possible victims. Do not let this letter disarm you or make you feel weak. It is HIS doing that is problematic. Didn't you say others also received a letter? Talk with them, report this as a team, if possible, or on your own if necessary. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I am as gobsmacked as Carol expressed...but here are a few (in) coherent thoughts: 1. Do you know who else received a letter? If so, I would call them - better yet - have a meeting with the main pastor and bring the letters and ask all people who received letters to attend. You may find out if the pastor encouraged him to do this or if leadership has no clue what went on... Depending on what transpires during the meeting with the pastor: 2. The pastor could make a report or any of the letter recipients could. There are probably more than one way to handle this. I'd familiarize myself with your state laws. Here in CA, there is no statue of limitations per se. There may be some restrictions as to how far the law can reach but nothing prevents the filing of a report. 3. If you and your dh feel the issue is being mishandled, disregarded, downplayed - whatever - then I would take some time off and not attend the church until I had more clarity because things like these can throw anyone for a loop. And there are probably other churches in your area... :grouphug: I also agree with some of Joanne's points, specifically that it seems manipulative in light of what you shared, namely that he talks all about himself in the letters and evidently expresses little or less concern for the child involved. But it is hard to know since I am not a letter recipient. Do not give your one and only original copy of the letter to your pastor /elder team. Especially if they are likely to sweep it under the rug. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Do we legally have to report this? Well, I suppose that technically if you are not a mandatory reporter and you have no knowledge of him currently committing crimes, then possibly no. But, the greater issue is a moral one. Morally, you have an obligation to the rest of the children of the community that he is around now and could be in contact with in the future. Most molesters upon investigation are found to have multiple victims, and these types of confessions tend to gloss over their worst crimes. It is statistically very likely there is a victim out there who has suffered worse than a single "fondling" and "inappropriate hugging". When I statistically likely, I mean VERY likely, profoundly likely. Personally, I would absolutely have to report because my own conscience would not allow me to turn my back on it. A confession of this nature that does not illicit investigation and action through legal channels enables him to escalate his behavior. Being registered, watched, serving time, attending a sex offender program, etc. in combination with the fact that being registered does give the community a chance to try to protect their children is the best chance we have at keeping molesters from continuing to victimize. It's not the best, not even all that great, but it is what we have at the present time. I think this a huge moral issue aside from the legal one. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leav97 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 What on earth is "inappropriate hugging"? It's hard to say because it's very vague. Probably intentionally vague. It could be anything from inappropriate thoughts while hugging, to rubbing genitals while hugging, to copping a fell, to grinding, ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Do we legally have to report this?Could you really live with yourselves if you didn't? ETA: there are sins of commission (a person lies, they sinned), and there are sins of omission (a child is being repeatedly slapped, and you walk away. You just sinned in your failure to protect that child). At this point, you are party to not only his past abuse, but also his future abuse. It is a sin to not report this. Any discomfort you experience as a result of reporting is just partaking in the suffering of Christ. Just as he suffered the penalty of your sins, sometimes we will suffer the penalty of other's sins when we walk in obedience. I have been in the position of reporting physical abuse, and it is very hard, but so very necessary. (((Hugs))) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Cat, there's so much more than appeal about not reporting right away and thinking this through. I care very much about this situation and may be the only one willing to act. Trust me. I know I'm dealing with my own fears too that I'll not go into but are based on actual past experiences with church dynamics. It's scary to be the one willing to take a stand sometimes but I've (and my husband and I together) done it before so the reality of all that can entail is very much with me. I know this is a difficult time for your family. This church sounds like a very bad place for children, your family, and other living things. You aren't supposed to be scared of telling the truth at church. I hope you can find a community of love that supports you as you go through this very difficult time. If nothing else, as parents, it is your responsibility to find that community for your kids. Leaving all the "big stuff" aside, do you really want people who make you afraid, teaching your children about god and morality? Think about that. I am so sorry you are going through this. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 He chose his actions. He is responsible for any "fallout" that causes him to get into trouble, not you. Yes it will be anxiety producing, uncomfortable, and icky, but reporting him is the ONLY option you have. It doesn't matter whether other people in the church will disagree with you. You have the ability to prevent a future attack. Please protect that child. Sorta' related personal story: My grandfather was a pedophile. When confronted he would agree that the facts were correct but there was always a "but" to explain away his actions. Manipulation, clever wording, and minimization were his hallmark. You know who I am truly hurt by though? My grandmother. She knew. She didn't stop him. It is so sad that she chose to prioritize her own comfort knowing that the result was the torture of innocent children. (ETA: I was not victimized personally. We lived out of state.) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You aren't supposed to be scared of telling the truth at church. *like* 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Members of the Clergy in Oregon are mandated reporters. So whether or not your DH wants to, he does need to report. (I want to say this holds for 27 or 28 other states, but I'm going off of the top of my head.) http://www.oregon.gov/dhs/abuse/pages/mandatory_report.aspx Because of the fact that his daughter is grown now, I'm not sure what will happen. I'm pretty sure that CPS will investigate to some degree. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Lavender Girl, there is another aspect to all of this: The daughter who was molested has probably not received the message that this was NOT okay. If nobody knew about it until now she still should know that others care enough about her to report him. Outwardly, she may wish people didn't because her family will never be the same but inwardly she will realize that people are telling her that she is precious enough to bring this to the attention of law enforcement. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Members of the Clergy in Oregon are mandated reporters. So whether or not your DH wants to, he does need to report. (I want to say this holds for 27 or 28 other states, but I'm going off of the top of my head.) http://www.oregon.gov/dhs/abuse/pages/mandatory_report.aspx Because of the fact that his daughter is grown now, I'm not sure what will happen. I'm pretty sure that CPS will investigate to some degree. I'm not sure if this is CA specific, but we have a short window to report before we are considered to be breaking the law. I can't remember if it's 24 or 48 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Does mandatory reporting apply to something that happened 15 years ago to a person who is now a (non-disabled) adult who lives elsewhere?I thought the point of mandatory reporting was to get the child victim out of the situation. Does anyone think the victim's opinion matters in this situation? Of course we don't know that he hasn't been reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Like substance abusers, sexual perpetrators have a well-documented penchant for underreporting behavior in order to be self-serving. This is classic behavior and not surprising. Though no one can know what really happened to the victim of this man except the victim herself, it is not at all surprising that "vague words" are used. People typically do NOT confess wrongly and out of confusion to being sexual molesters. I'm pretty sure people typically do not confess out of the blue to being sexual molesters, period. So, the fact that this guy is handing out letters to a bunch of people confessing is weird. We don't know why he's doing this weird thing, but weird things can have weird reasons. I made the Asperger's analogy because, in theory, it's possible that someone learns that fondling their child is wrong, looks up fondling in the dictionary, finds "stroke or caress lovingly or erotically", thinks "well, I've caressed my kids lovingly" and goes on some weird confession spree. Unlikely, but not impossible. More likely would be that this person cuddled/hugged the child while having inappropriate thoughts and is confessing to that, which still wouldn't be illegal. Or, it could be a more usual interpretation of fondling. Or, it could be much worse. There are also crazy people who call in to the police confessing to whatever murders or other crimes they can't possibly have committed. There are lots of weird and crazy out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Lavender Girl, there is another aspect to all of this: The daughter who was molested has probably not received the message that this was NOT okay. If nobody knew about it until now she still should know that others care enough about her to report him. Outwardly, she may wish people didn't because her family will never be the same but inwardly she will realize that people are telling her that she is precious enough to bring this to the attention of law enforcement. She might be glad, sure. But - she might appreciate the sentiment or even the importance of action being taken, but still wish she would not have to deal with the police - that seems a little paternalistic to assume you would know what she would really want or need or know what is best for her. She might possibly even be a little angry if she sees it in terms of others claiming ownership of her experience, which would be a little unfair but not I think impossible to understand. I dare say she already knows that her family won't be the same as if it had never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 As a Christian. I think public repentance and accountability for sin can be a good and needed thing. It doesn't, however, substitute or abdicate legal ramifications of actions. If he or his family haven't moved to have this investigated I do believe you should - the investigators will take his confession into account during investigation, it won't make things worse for him to have done that or actively sought to avoid further harm. Those are good things! But this still needs to be handled by the proper authorities for criminal investigation, even if all involved have dealt with the situation and forgiven him. With his willingness to repent should have also come a willingness to accept the consequences of his actions. It is enormously hard for all involved, but hopefully this will be one step of many on the path to healing for those he hurt and himself, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Surely this guy knew that he would end up being reported - especially after handing out so many letters to so many different people. I would wonder what his motive is, too. Something about his actions remind me of the whole Duggar mess for some reason - the slipperiness or something? Oh, and I was recently listening to a sermon outlining the 4 basic restraints in any society. And government was one of them. Maybe let the authorities deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Does mandatory reporting apply to something that happened 15 years ago to a person who is now a (non-disabled) adult who lives elsewhere? I thought the point of mandatory reporting was to get the child victim out of the situation. Does anyone think the victim's opinion matters in this situation? Of course we don't know that he hasn't been reported. Honestly I don't think as a mandated reporter you're supposed to make that determination. That's why it's mandatory reporting. You leave that to the professionals. No, the victim's opinion doesn't matter because she may not be the only victim...either in the past or the future. I know that's harsh, but that's how I feel. Sexual abusers rely on the culture of silence and shame. It helps them. It doesn't help victims. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Does mandatory reporting apply to something that happened 15 years ago to a person who is now a (non-disabled) adult who lives elsewhere? No. I thought the point of mandatory reporting was to get the child victim out of the situation. It is. Does anyone think the victim's opinion matters in this situation? Of course. Of course we don't know that he hasn't been reported. I think that the waters have been muddied with whether or not the OP or her dh is or is not a mandatory reporter. With the knowledge at hand, this is not a CPS matter. CPS would not investigate, as no abuse or neglect is being alleged toward a person who is currently a minor. This is now a legal matter. Mandatory reporter laws do not apply. It is up to the police and courts to investigate whether or not a crime has taken place and what action to take regarding the information. Of course the victim's opinion matters, but it does not supercede the protection of children. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I'm pretty sure people typically do not confess out of the blue to being sexual molesters, period. So, the fact that this guy is handing out letters to a bunch of people confessing is weird. We don't know why he's doing this weird thing, but weird things can have weird reasons. I made the Asperger's analogy because, in theory, it's possible that someone learns that fondling their child is wrong, looks up fondling in the dictionary, finds "stroke or caress lovingly or erotically", thinks "well, I've caressed my kids lovingly" and goes on some weird confession spree. Unlikely, but not impossible. More likely would be that this person cuddled/hugged the child while having inappropriate thoughts and is confessing to that, which still wouldn't be illegal. Or, it could be a more usual interpretation of fondling. Or, it could be much worse. There are also crazy people who call in to the police confessing to whatever murders or other crimes they can't possibly have committed. There are lots of weird and crazy out there. This is the most unlikely of the many possible scenarios so it is a distraction to the OP's attempt to come to terms with what to do. If a mentally unstable person falsely confessed in letter form to multiple people 15 years after the fact, the police would determine this soon enough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I guess texasmama answered the question of whether or not the pastor is still obligated to report it. I'm sorry. That's not the answer I was hoping for. How are you doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 The thing that keeps coming back to me is that others in your church know about what this man has done, yet as far as you know, no one has taken any action. I find this to be extremely disturbing, and I strongly recommend that you and your dh approach your pastor and ask him point blank what he is going to do, and if his answer is anything other than that he has already reported the man to the police, you tell him you will be finding another church immediately. If your church is willing to cover up for a man who has made a confession in writing, how many other confessed perverts might be sitting in the pew next to you on Sundays? What kind of pastor would let an admitted child molester off without the slightest punishment? Why would the other church members be even remotely OK with what the man has done? This whole situation is wrong on so many levels. I think you and your dh have a lot of thinking to do about whether or not this is really the best church environment for your family. Ideally, I am hoping you approach your pastor and he is as concerned as you are, and he tells you he has already reported the man to the police and he encourages you to do the same -- but you won't know until you question him about it. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Members of the Clergy in Oregon are mandated reporters. So whether or not your DH wants to, he does need to report. (I want to say this holds for 27 or 28 other states, but I'm going off of the top of my head.) http://www.oregon.gov/dhs/abuse/pages/mandatory_report.aspx Because of the fact that his daughter is grown now, I'm not sure what will happen. I'm pretty sure that CPS will investigate to some degree. I was kinda wondering about her rights in all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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