NOOOOOO!

[Heather in VA]

Based on the video in which they were discussing the constitution and how it applied to their seat belt stop, I'd say they practice a lot of "street law". I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to do this without any real legal advice.

 

Very true. That was a pretty telling video. If the courts do provide a public defender in these cases he's probably got his hands full just trying to get them to talk to him. 

[TeenagerMom]

Very true. That was a pretty telling video. If the courts do provide a public defender in these cases he's probably got his hands full just trying to get them to talk to him.

HSLDA has said they hired a local attorney who is not affiliated with them but they advised the local attorney about their homeschooling law. I have also seen snips of messages to HSLDA and they are adamantly denying even financially funding the local attorney.

[Ottakee]

I wonder who they have advising them. In one of the threads there was mention of a public defender since HSLDA declined to represent them but I guess I assumed that was for the criminal charges. Are parents given a public defender for custody court? If so, I would think he is telling her to keep quiet, tow the line, jump through hoops etc. Maybe there is someone advising her but she's just not listening. Right or wrong, when a case gets to this stage perception is huge. They can walk into court and claim their kids are healthy, happy and live in a 4 walled structure. The kids could even back up their story. But the judge is going to totally dismiss their assertions when he has their own pictures and blogs that show the kids doubled over and laying on the ground after eating rotten food, pictures of a clearly 3 walled (and I use the term wall loosely) structure and her own words about them sleeping in a frost covered van to try to keep warm. Social media will kill them. There is little they can do about the past stuff they've posted. Even removing it now won't help because I'm sure CPS has already downloaded it all. But going forward their social media stuff should be either completely quiet or as Mergath said, full of photos and stories of their daily work to get the kids back. 

In Michigan, the parents are given a public defender, and if requested, one for each of them.  I am sure that her past social media postings are not going to help.

 

I agree that if they wanted the kids back ASAP, they should be busting their butts cleaning up the place, asking their supporters to come and help clean up the place and fix up the housing situation, build something for sanitation (whatever is best for that area), locating and storing safe water, etc.  I haven't seen any big moves by their supporters to try to arrange this.  Even if they are hours away, they could arrange people to come for the weekend and get a lot done.

 

 If the land is leased and/or for sale, I wonder if instead they should be looking for some alternative housing situation.  while not ideal for a family of their size, even a 3 bedroom single wide trailer would likely be considered acceptable for CPS if it is clean and has water/sanitation.

[Heather in VA]

I am relieved to hear for sure that HSLDA is not participating in this case. I'm not a fan of the organization but even if I was, this is so clearly not a homeschool case.

 

I agree that alternative housing is probably the best choice. I wonder if they are willing to accept that.  

[amy g.]

Now they are posting pictures of their goats on FB. Such odd priorities.

[Corraleno]

I think the reason they aren't cleaning up the place or improving the sanitation is because they think that would be an admission that CPS is right and that their "homestead" is not fit for children as it is. And they are adamant that the property is fine as it is and that CPS has already approved it. They see themselves as crusaders and martyrs, defending their "constitutional rights" to own their children and raise them however they see fit. And, sadly, I think that their "cause" is more important to them than regaining custody. They'd rather continue to be martyrs, getting national attention and racking up the donations, than quietly fix the property up and get their kids back.

 

 

[Spryte]

I think the reason they aren't cleaning up the place or improving the sanitation is because they think that would be an admission that CPS is right and that their "homestead" is not fit for children as it is. And they are adamant that the property is fine as it is and that CPS has already approved it. They see themselves as crusaders and martyrs, defending their "constitutional rights" to own their children and raise them however they see fit. And, sadly, I think that their "cause" is more important to them than regaining custody. They'd rather continue to be martyrs, getting national attention and racking up the donations, than quietly fix the property up and get their kids back.

Sadly, I think that's accurate.

[Heather in VA]

BTW - I blame you guys. As a direct result of reading this post (and the other one) my FB page now has ads for portable toilets and Yurts. 

[MrsWeasley]

I think the reason they aren't cleaning up the place or improving the sanitation is because they think that would be an admission that CPS is right and that their "homestead" is not fit for children as it is. And they are adamant that the property is fine as it is and that CPS has already approved it. They see themselves as crusaders and martyrs, defending their "constitutional rights" to own their children and raise them however they see fit. And, sadly, I think that their "cause" is more important to them than regaining custody. They'd rather continue to be martyrs, getting national attention and racking up the donations, than quietly fix the property up and get their kids back.

 

 

I don't think they rather be martyrs. I think they are truly just delusional. I don't know if CPS really approved it, but given how out of touch with reality they tend to be in general, I very much suspect that they think that CPS will return their kids to their shack. Part of me understands it. I think facing reality, the enormity of their mistake, would be really difficult, to be able to live with herself I think she needs to deny what she's done. I really, really hope CPS will help her with counseling. I think at least Nicole desperately wants back her children and could easily misinterpret something CPS said as approval. This doesn't sound like choosing ideology over children. This sounds like deep, deep denial. And I hope she works through that level of denial.

[Entropymama]

Now they are posting pictures of their goats on FB. Such odd priorities.

 

Just playing 'devil's advocate' here, but I think I can understand that. Have you ever had a day when you had a million things to do - important things, even! - and  you're feeling overwhelmed and stressed and come to the boards for an hour instead of getting to work? Now imagine that feeling multiplied and multiplied, and possibly add depression or anxiety.. yeah, I can see doing something like taking pictures of sunsets and goats as a way of either de-stressing or avoiding a scary and seemingly impossible situation.

[Guest]

I think the reason they aren't cleaning up the place or improving the sanitation is because they think that would be an admission that CPS is right and that their "homestead" is not fit for children as it is. And they are adamant that the property is fine as it is and that CPS has already approved it. They see themselves as crusaders and martyrs, defending their "constitutional rights" to own their children and raise them however they see fit. And, sadly, I think that their "cause" is more important to them than regaining custody. They'd rather continue to be martyrs, getting national attention and racking up the donations, than quietly fix the property up and get their kids back.

I agree with this.  I don't get the impression that the kids are their first priority in all of this.  I think they view themselves as pioneers in the homestead/free range movement.  I also think they like the idea of more money coming in.

 

Now, here is where I show how immature I am.  Every time I see a photo or video of either of them, I can't help but imagine how bad they must smell and I gag a little.  I know, I'm terrible.

[Outdoorsy Type]

I read the quote about having "a supervised visit until the court date Monday" to mean that they have *a* meaning *one* visit only before Monday. Not that it would last until Monday.

 

Also just my .2 but they are posting on FB because thousands of people are encouraging them. They get affirmations saying how wonderful of a job they are doing with the children with every post. I would relish the positive words in that situation. Not that I would ever live in that manner barring apocalyptic tragedy.

[Mergath]

Just playing 'devil's advocate' here, but I think I can understand that. Have you ever had a day when you had a million things to do - important things, even! - and  you're feeling overwhelmed and stressed and come to the boards for an hour instead of getting to work? Now imagine that feeling multiplied and multiplied, and possibly add depression or anxiety.. yeah, I can see doing something like taking pictures of sunsets and goats as a way of either de-stressing or avoiding a scary and seemingly impossible situation.

 

Yes, but I also didn't have a hundred thousand people following my every move online and ten kids I was trying to get back from foster care. If that was the case, I'd probably be a bit more discreet.

[gardenmom5]

BTW - I blame you guys. As a direct result of reading this post (and the other one) my FB page now has ads for portable toilets and Yurts. 

 

 

I had a living social deal for yurt camping in my  junk e-mail address.

[Renai]

I read the quote about having "a supervised visit until the court date Monday" to mean that they have *a* meaning *one* visit only before Monday. Not that it would last until Monday.

 

Also just my .2 but they are posting on FB because thousands of people are encouraging them. They get affirmations saying how wonderful of a job they are doing with the children with every post. I would relish the positive words in that situation. Not that I would ever live in that manner barring apocalyptic tragedy.

 

I posted a link upthread that says they have been reunited for the weekend. Here's the link: http://www.saveourfamily.info/family-reunited-for-the-weekend/

 

It says they are staying together at a foster home.

[Outdoorsy Type]

I missed that, sorry! It just seems so... odd, that I thought it must be semantics. :P

[Catwoman]

Yes, but I also didn't have a hundred thousand people following my every move online and ten kids I was trying to get back from foster care. If that was the case, I'd probably be a bit more discreet.

:iagree:

 

And as you mentioned in an earlier post, if she had a brain in her head, she would be posting pictures showing how hard she and her dh were working to clean up the "homestead" instead of giving the impression that she was wasting time gazing at the sunset and taking cute goat pictures -- even if the reality was that they only cleaned for 10 minutes as a photo op, and they spent most of their time doing frivolous things because they don't really care about getting their kids back.

 

I don't care if the mom is in denial about how detrimental the family's lifestyle is to her children. It doesn't make a difference whether or not she agrees with the authorities about what constitutes a safe environment. My feeling is that, no matter how she feels about it, she should be jumping through hoops right now to do whatever it takes to get her kids back and "fighting the man" later.

 

It seems as though the kids are pawns in this couple's bizarre social (or should I say "anti-social") experiment.

[hornblower]

Hey, what if the kids weren't taken at all? Just thinking out loud. But that would be a neat hoax. Get everybody riled up at the gov't, get donations....

[Word Nerd]

BTW - I blame you guys. As a direct result of reading this post (and the other one) my FB page now has ads for portable toilets and Yurts.

Since looking up something while reading the recent bankruptcy thread here, I've been seeing ads about bankruptcy lawyers and alternatives.

[hornblower]

adblocker you guys have to run adblocker.

& fbpurity for facebook  :)

 

 

[Heather in VA]

I don't think they rather be martyrs. I think they are truly just delusional. I don't know if CPS really approved it, but given how out of touch with reality they tend to be in general, I very much suspect that they think that CPS will return their kids to their shack. Part of me understands it. I think facing reality, the enormity of their mistake, would be really difficult, to be able to live with herself I think she needs to deny what she's done. I really, really hope CPS will help her with counseling. I think at least Nicole desperately wants back her children and could easily misinterpret something CPS said as approval. This doesn't sound like choosing ideology over children. This sounds like deep, deep denial. And I hope she works through that level of denial.

 

I really want to believe this. As bad as it sounds I really do hope she's delusional. At least there is a chance that delusional can be fixed. With some help she could come around to face the situation and make some good decisions for the kids. Unfortunately I am not as optimistic. The video with the cop and the seat beat really sticks with me, first that they would automatically record a simple traffic stop and put it on the web but also her constitutional rant. It just seems that her belief system is rooted more in anti-authority than some idealistic idea of homesteading that went amuck. 

[Audrey]

If the dinner story is true it is a good thing they probably won't begin school until next fall. They will need those months to learn how to use bathrooms/ silverware/ bathe, ect. But the fact that they are waiting more months until getting academic instruction is hard for me to take. I know they probably need the time for life skills, but this hurts the home school mom in me.

I don't think it is a shame, nor am I bothered that the children might not get any formal academic instruction until fall.  They need time to decompress and deprogram before any formal learning can possibly be of any positive value to them. To throw them into a public school setting right now would be an egregious disregard of their current mental and physical health needs.  Those need to be addressed first and foremost.  Otherwise, it would be like throwing them to a different pack of wolves with no skills to survive in that foreign setting.

[Guest]

I don't think it is a shame, nor am I bothered that the children might not get any formal academic instruction until fall.  The need time to decompress and deprogram before any formal learning can possibly be of any positive value to them. To throw them into a public school setting right now would be an egregious disregard of their current mental and physical health needs.  Those need to be addressed first and foremost.  Otherwise, it would be like throwing them to a different pack of wolves with no skills to survive in that foreign setting.

This makes so much sense. 

[mamakelly]

 If the courts do provide a public defender in these cases he's probably got his hands full just trying to get them to talk to him. 

 

I think it depends on what their state laws are, and what they are being charged with. In California you are not given a public defender for CPS cases, unless I believe there is a criminal charge. I knew a lady whose kids were taken by CPS, and she and her husband spent a small fortune on their attorney trying to get their kids back.

[Corraleno]

I don't think they rather be martyrs. I think they are truly just delusional. I don't know if CPS really approved it, but given how out of touch with reality they tend to be in general, I very much suspect that they think that CPS will return their kids to their shack. Part of me understands it. I think facing reality, the enormity of their mistake, would be really difficult, to be able to live with herself I think she needs to deny what she's done. I really, really hope CPS will help her with counseling. I think at least Nicole desperately wants back her children and could easily misinterpret something CPS said as approval. This doesn't sound like choosing ideology over children. This sounds like deep, deep denial. And I hope she works through that level of denial.

 

I think the martyrdom and delusion go hand in hand. I think they genuinely believe that there is nothing wrong with the way they live, and that they have the legal right to live that way, so there is no reason for them to "back down" and fix the place up. And that delusion is being reinforced by hundreds of people posting on their FB page about how awesome their lifestyle is and agreeing that the government has illegally kidnapped their children and will have to return them. 

 

If you read some of Nicole's political posts (especially on her older blog) and listen to the recordings of her ranting to police about her constitutional rights — including repeatedly screaming "Shoot me! Shoot me!"at the very patient policeman — I think she and Joe definitely have a persecution complex. She could easily have avoided this whole thing by letting the police talk to the boys, instead of jumping in the car with them and trying to flee, then resisting arrest and screaming at the cop to shoot her.

 

I think they still believe they can somehow force CPS to acknowledge their "constitutional rights" and return the kids with no change in lifestyle, and I honestly doubt that they will back down as long as they're being hailed as heroes by the nutcases who are supporting them. Eventually the attention will die down, their supporters will move on to a newer case, and then they will probably be forced to do what CPS wants — especially as the birth of baby #11 gets closer. She will not want CPS taking the newborn, so I think at the very least they will have to get their sh*t together by the end of the summer.

[Halcyon]

I think it depends on what their state laws are, and what they are being charged with. In California you are not given a public defender for CPS cases, unless I believe there is a criminal charge. I knew a lady whose kids were taken by CPS, and she and her husband spent a small fortune on their attorney trying to get their kids back.

 

My bet is they would insist on defending themselves. They're that delusional. And the poster who said they seem to be more into their image as "homesteading anti-gov types" than they are into their role as parents? Yes. ITA. 

 

I am sorry, but if CPS took my kids and said "Do this and that and this and you will get your kids back" I would do it, no matter HOW MUCH I DISAGREED. Once the kids were back in my arms, I would (if I felt I had been wronged) hire a lawyer and sue CPS. But only AFTER I got my kids back. I would be that desperate to get them back, that scared that I would never see them again, and so attuned to the fact that CPS now has the power, NOT ME, that I would just do whatever they asked as fast as I possibly could and figure out how to "get back at CPS" once I had them back under my roof.

[Heather in VA]

My bet is they would insist on defending themselves. They're that delusional. And the poster who said they seem to be more into their image as "homesteading anti-gov types" than they are into their role as parents? Yes. ITA. 

 

I am sorry, but if CPS took my kids and said "Do this and that and this and you will get your kids back" I would do it, no matter HOW MUCH I DISAGREED. Once the kids were back in my arms, I would (if I felt I had been wronged) hire a lawyer and sue CPS. But only AFTER I got my kids back. I would be that desperate to get them back, that scared that I would never see them again, and so attuned to the fact that CPS now has the power, NOT ME, that I would just do whatever they asked as fast as I possibly could and figure out how to "get back at CPS" once I had them back under my roof.

 

 

This absolutely. If CPS told me I had to paint my house purple with pink polka dots and dig a pond and fill it with Koi... I would do it. I would be talking to a lawyer to sue their butts off but I would do anything to get the kids back. 

[Guest]

My bet is they would insist on defending themselves. They're that delusional. And the poster who said they seem to be more into their image as "homesteading anti-gov types" than they are into their role as parents? Yes. ITA.

 

I am sorry, but if CPS took my kids and said "Do this and that and this and you will get your kids back" I would do it, no matter HOW MUCH I DISAGREED. Once the kids were back in my arms, I would (if I felt I had been wronged) hire a lawyer and sue CPS. But only AFTER I got my kids back. I would be that desperate to get them back, that scared that I would never see them again, and so attuned to the fact that CPS now has the power, NOT ME, that I would just do whatever they asked as fast as I possibly could and figure out how to "get back at CPS" once I had them back under my roof.

Agreed. Putting myself in her (filthy, stinky) shoes, CPS is doing things with her children that she is fundamentally opposed to. Vaccinations, modern medicine, public education, etc. Think about that. What would you do if a group you were 100% against took your children (kidnapped them, in your mind) and did things to them that you were 100% opposed to?? Would it cross your mind to put sunset and goat photos on the Internet?? How could you not spend every minute working to get them back? My money says these people are more into the cause than they are the actual children.

[Heather in VA]

Agreed. Putting myself in her (filthy, stinky) shoes, CPS is doing things with her children that she is fundamentally opposed to. Vaccinations, modern medicine, public education, etc. Think about that. What would you do if a group you were 100% against took your children (kidnapped them, in your mind) and did things to them that you were 100% opposed to?? Would it cross your mind to put sunset and goat photos on the Internet?? How could you not spend every minute working to get them back? My money says these people are more into the cause than they are the actual children.

 

This is true. Unfortunately for them these things they are fundamentally opposed to, vaccinations, modern medicine, public education, are really secondary to what CPS is really upset about. By digging in their heels they come across as being fundamentally opposed to a safe living environment for their children.

[Orthodox6]

This is true. Unfortunately for them these things they are fundamentally opposed to, vaccinations, modern medicine, public education, are really secondary to what CPS is really upset about. By digging in their heels they come across as being fundamentally opposed to a safe living environment for their children.

In agreement. Many board members oppose one or more of the three things you list. CPS could not care less about us. Not only that, but intelligently implemented "off grid" living would not disturb CPS, either.

[kwg]

I read through the comment on the other linked thread and am horrified.

 

I saw this post by Nicole and was bothered:

 

Olivia loves babies. Babies love Olivia. I can always count on her to be helpful. She wants to be a midwife when she is older. Having been in my assistance with 3 births she is doing pretty good so far, considering she is just now 8 years old. 

 

 

At first I thought she meant she was the assistant to the birth of her brother/sister.  But maybe the mom had a friend giving birth and the little girl went to assist?  I hope so bc to give an 8 year old that level of responsibility is clearly batshit crazy.  Oh, sorry. 7 year old.  This is the same little girl who took care of all the puking kids outside I believe.

[Heather in VA]

 

I read through the comment on the other linked thread and am horrified.

 

I saw this post by Nicole and was bothered:

 

Olivia loves babies. Babies love Olivia. I can always count on her to be helpful. She wants to be a midwife when she is older. Having been in my assistance with 3 births she is doing pretty good so far, considering she is just now 8 years old. 

 

 

At first I thought she meant she was the assistant to the birth of her brother/sister.  But maybe the mom had a friend giving birth and the little girl went to assist?  I hope so bc to give an 8 year old that level of responsibility is clearly batshit crazy.  Oh, sorry. 7 year old.  This is the same little girl who took care of all the puking kids outside I believe.

 

 

Yikes - I hadn't seen this comment before. It sure does sound like she is referring to Olivia assisting Nicole with her own births. I haven't read anywhere that Nicole assisted other people with birthing. If so, she was incredibly young when she started (not that barely 8 isn't incredibly young as it is). I just mean she says 3 births. Even at one birth a year that means Olivia was 5 at the oldest when she first "assisted". That is batshit crazy. It's not right for Olivia and its terrifying to think Nicole's only help in birth is an young elementary child. What if something goes wrong???

 

And yes - that was Olivia who helped all the puking kids. You can see her standing over them in the photo.

[maize]

I wouldn't assume that saying Olivia assisted means she was the only assistant, did the mom say there was no midwife? Was even her husband not there?

 

When my three year old was born, my then eight year old absolutely assisted me through labor. Cut the cord too.

 

I was in the hospital with both a midwife and a doula, so she was definitely not my only assistant--but assist she did! I still remember her stand by me and encouraging "come on Mom, you can do it!" when I was having a hard time with pushing.

[Heather in VA]

I wouldn't assume that saying Olivia assisted means she was the only assistant, did the mom say there was no midwife? Was even her husband not there?

 

When my three year old was born, my then eight year old absolutely assisted me through labor. Cut the cord to.

 

I was in the hospital with both a midwife and a doula, so she was definitely not my only assistant--but assist she did! I still remember her stand by me and encouraging "come on Mom, you can do it!" when I was having a hard time with pushing.

 

I had the same situation. My oldest was there for both of my other children's birth. She was 4 and 8 respectively. She definitely cheered me on and helped with the cord and inspected the placenta. But I had a CNM and birth assistant. In other parts of Nicole's FB page or blog (can't remember which I've read quite a bit of it in the last two days) she specifically talks about having unattended births. To me that means no CNM/CPM/lay midwife or any other non-relative trained person. It sounds from this like she considers Olivia more than a cheerleader. 

[gardenmom5]

I wouldn't assume that saying Olivia assisted means she was the only assistant, did the mom say there was no midwife? Was even her husband not there?

 

When my three year old was born, my then eight year old absolutely assisted me through labor. Cut the cord to.

 

I was in the hospital with both a midwife and a doula, so she was definitely not my only assistant--but assist she did! I still remember her stand by me and encouraging "come on Mom, you can do it!" when I was having a hard time with pushing.

 

 

while Nicole may or may NOT have had a midwife (she's so crazy, she may have foregone such niceties), she's made pretty clear she doesn't trust modern medical practices and things like "hospitals".  so, have lots of doubts she'd deliver a baby in one.  (and if she had - the kids would have had BC.  pretty sure if she'd had a licensed midwife they would have had BC.)

[Orthodox6]

while Nicole may or may NOT have had a midwife (she's so crazy, she may have foregone such niceties), she's made pretty clear she doesn't trust modern medical practices and things like "hospitals".  so, have lots of doubts she'd deliver a baby in one.  (and if she had - the kids would have had BC.  pretty sure if she'd had a licensed midwife they would have had BC.)

 

What does "BC" mean in this post?  I always have seen that as an abbreviation for "birth control".  Thanks!

 

[Renai]

while Nicole may or may NOT have had a midwife (she's so crazy, she may have foregone such niceties), she's made pretty clear she doesn't trust modern medical practices and things like "hospitals".  so, have lots of doubts she'd deliver a baby in one.  (and if she had - the kids would have had BC.  pretty sure if she'd had a licensed midwife they would have had BC.)

 

What's BC?

[gardenmom5]

What does "BC" mean in this post?  I always have seen that as an abbreviation for "birth control".  Thanks!

 

 

 

birth certificate.  the kids don't have one.  Nicole has posted she's against them as she considers it subjecting herself to gov't  control.  they don't have SSN's either.  (social security numbers)

[Orthodox6]

birth certificate.  the kids don't have one.  Nicole has posted she's against them as she considers it subjecting herself to gov't  control.  they don't have SSN's either.  (social security numbers)

 

Thanks.

 

I guess [your bolded text] answers my earlier question (in the dead thread) about whether the woman will bother to file and pay her self-employment taxes from the pet grooming attempt. 

 

If ever her "home" catches fire, for consistency's sake, she should turn away the county fire department trucks because their aid would place her under obligation of thankfulness to The Government.

[Heather in VA]

It's interesting, she seems to have different rules for her business. She clearly has all the modern conveniences and she mentioned tonight that she will open on Tuesday after she gets her Certificate of Occupancy which is a government document. 

while Nicole may or may NOT have had a midwife (she's so crazy, she may have foregone such niceties), she's made pretty clear she doesn't trust modern medical practices and things like "hospitals".  so, have lots of doubts she'd deliver a baby in one.  (and if she had - the kids would have had BC.  pretty sure if she'd had a licensed midwife they would have had BC.)

 

 

If you google for her blog with "homebirth", you'll find (of course) pictures and a blog entry about her unassisted homebirth.  This entry was from when she was still living on the grid, but it seems clear that she plans to give birth to the current baby with an unassisted homebirth on the "homestead".

 

Homebirth with a CNM in a home with hot running water, mod cons, etc. is one thing, but in a lean-to outside, with no running water or modern facilities or midwife? 

 

We had a lively discussion on the previous thread about what CPS would do in such a case, especially if the older children had all been taken away.

[idnib]

Thanks.

 

I guess [your bolded text] answers my earlier question (in the dead thread) about whether the woman will bother to file and pay her self-employment taxes from the pet grooming attempt. 

 

If ever her "home" catches fire, for consistency's sake, she should turn away the county fire department trucks because their aid would place her under obligation of thankfulness to The Government.

 

Since she used to have a normal job at a pet grooming salon before she met her husband, I'm assuming she'll also be returning her SS checks when the government sends them. I wonder if her business is licensed. 

[MrsWeasley]

If you google for her blog with "homebirth", you'll find (of course) pictures and a blog entry about her unassisted homebirth.  This entry was from when she was still living on the grid, but it seems clear that she plans to give birth to the current baby with an unassisted homebirth on the "homestead".

 

Homebirth with a CNM in a home with hot running water, mod cons, etc. is one thing, but in a lean-to outside, with no running water or modern facilities or midwife? 

 

We had a lively discussion on the previous thread about what CPS would do in such a case, especially if the older children had all been taken away.

 

There are plenty of midwives who will attend births in homes without modern conveniences. When I was pregnant with my third, I interviewed a midwife who also attended births for the Amish. These people aren't the Amish. I don't think she could get any trained professional to attend her birth there. 

[Orthodox6]

Since she used to have a normal job at a pet grooming salon before she met her husband, I'm assuming she'll also be returning her SS checks when the government sends them. I wonder if her business is licensed. 

 

From what I looked up a couple of days ago, she will have to possess a "business license" in order to have an open shop.  She is not required, however, to be "certified" (which relates to level of skill).

 

[Corraleno]

Speaking of identity abuse (parents' refusal to register births or provide kids with any ID), for those who remember the Alecia Pennington case, a Texas State Representative is trying to help her get the ID she needs, and they are also trying to pass a bill to provide penalties for not registering a birth. (Right now it's legally required in Texas that births be registered, but there's no penalty for not doing so.) 

 

Alecia's creepy controlling jerk of a father actually had the gall to show up at the hearing to argue against the bill.  :mad:

 

 

[gardenmom5]

Speaking of identity abuse (parents' refusal to register births or provide kids with any ID), for those who remember the Alecia Pennington case, a Texas State Representative is trying to help her get the ID she needs, and they are also trying to pass a bill to provide penalties for not registering a birth. (Right now it's legally required in Texas that births be registered, but there's no penalty for not doing so.)  

 

Alecia's creepy controlling jerk of a father actually had the gall to show up at the hearing to argue against the bill.  :mad:

 

 

his presence and attitude probably did more to convince those on the panel why it needed to be done.

[Heather in VA]

I wonder how not having birth records, SSNs etc is affecting the CPS. I would think all that stuff would be expected when tracking a child. Their computer systems are probably expecting birthdays and SSNs. 

[Renai]

birth certificate.  the kids don't have one.  Nicole has posted she's against them as she considers it subjecting herself to gov't  control.  they don't have SSN's either.  (social security numbers)

 

Oh, yeah. right. Except, even with a midwife it is sometimes up to the parent to fill out the birth certificate info and turn it in. I just was unsure what BC stood for in this instance.

[Butter]

I wouldn't assume that saying Olivia assisted means she was the only assistant, did the mom say there was no midwife? Was even her husband not there?

 

When my three year old was born, my then eight year old absolutely assisted me through labor. Cut the cord too.

 

I was in the hospital with both a midwife and a doula, so she was definitely not my only assistant--but assist she did! I still remember her stand by me and encouraging "come on Mom, you can do it!" when I was having a hard time with pushing.

 

My older kids were there when I have their brothers (at home), but I had assisted births with a midwife and her assistant.  Nicole has unassisted births.

[TeenagerMom]

They are back in court today. Their attorney just told reporters they had better get their kids back today.