Here is the carp I'm dealing with--YE people, look here

[Murphy101]

I agree with the their group/church/running it = it's going to be done their way. Don't like it, then leave.

 

From their perspective, it isn't bait and switch. It's just them being them in an environment they have set up to be free to do that. I doubt they give any thought to those who also are there not being okay with it.

 

For example. We have an American Heritage Girls group at our parish. American Heritiage Girls bills itself as conservative Christian value based. But it meets at a Roman Catholic church and is run by mostly Roman Catholics under the direction of a priest. So someone joining who isn't catholic is welcome but it should not be a surprise that we say common Roman Catholic prayers and have that outlook. And that those things are going to pervade into many of the things we do and conversations we have. Who people are tends to pervade their words and actions and interests. Religious beliefs are often part of who people are.

 

You can get bent out of shape about it.

You can walk away from it.

You can discuss it with your kids or with those people directly.

You can ignore it.

All of those are reasonable reactions.

 

Pitching a fit is an option too I suppose. I just don't see the point or effectiveness of it.

[milovany]

Slache, just so you know, I get what you're saying.  I know you weren't saying that Catholics aren't Christians.  I think there's a bit of a knee jerk reaction going on with your statement, but I hear that you meant that where you live something labeled "Christian" would most likely mean it's coming from the non-denominational/evangelical type of Christian point of view.  A Catholic activity would say that, "Catholic," not "Christian."  It's not that they (or anyone) doesn't think of Catholics as Christians, necessarily, it's just the wording that is typically used.  Nothing about beliefs, all about wording. 

[creekland]

I totally agree - I taught writing at co-op for years and we got into some pretty great discussions.  However, the way the OP described what happened it was clear that it wasn't the case of a controversial subject as part of a discussion.  It sounded a lot more like the teacher was purposefully poking at the student and the teacher comes across as snarky.  Regardless of what topic a kid is writing about, I think the way the teacher questioned it was rude and was not done in the context of a lively discussion.

 

I agree with you totally.  Teachers at our school do a good job generally backing off from taking any sides with controversial subject writing, but at times there can be questions - mainly aimed at the writing, but nonetheless, dealing with the topic.

 

In this particular situation it does seem like the teacher was aiming at the subject and not the writing, but not expecting YEC to come up in the writing deal at all... it comes up in our public school writings (the kid's writings, not the school's writings) often with kids being either pro or con - their choice.  Other controversial subjects, like homeschooling, also come up.  It happens.

[MFG]

That's not what I was saying. Around here "Christian" seems to mean non denominational or Baptist in style. I wouldn't expect a Catholic to fit in spiritually in a group the calls themselves Christian around here.

If you know this to be an incorrect use of the term, why not be the change you want to see? A gentle correction from someone within the group might be better received than a criticism from one of the "others".

[hornblower]

You know, I sympathize. In my neck of the woods it seemed for a long time the only people were hard core unschooler, or YE & deeply religious. It was hard to find a big enough group of people who were more like us. It IS frustrating. 

Your son is very  mature & handled that SO well.  I get that you're ticked, but honestly, I'd be celebrating. You've done good, mama. 

Can you be more like a duck & just let all of this roll off your back?

[Slache]

:confused1:   Catholics have been calling themselves Christian for over 2000 years - as they go back that far.  Catholic means universal.   There was no need for differentiation till the Reformation.  All Christians were Catholics (well, except the Orthodox church, but they were also Christian, and even the Catholics didn't - and don't - argue that).

 

What exactly do you suggest as the umbrella term for the group of people who believe in the Bible (yes, Catholics believe in the Bible), the Trinity, and the divinity of Jesus, if not Christian, a term that was used to define a religion for literally thousands of years before those non-denominational Churches that have co-opted that term even existed - but now they're the only ones who get to use it or define it?  :confused1:

 

(FTR, I am not Catholic)

 

There were non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Protestants long before the reformation. I know that Catholics believe the Bible. I don't have a term, but around here "Christian" groups have beliefs staunchly opposed to Catholic beliefs and tend not to mix well doctrinally or spiritually. I was trying to say that if I heard about Moxie's group I would not have been surprised at the strong YEC aspect.

[vonfirmath]

Baptist is, after all, a denomination.  If a church is non-denominational, they can't also be Baptist (even if they agree pretty much in flavor and teaching - are they only 'non-denominational' to get out of paying their denominational dues?)

 

- signed wacky person who belongs to a church that is a member of two denominations - and pays dues to them both...

 

I'm not sure every Baptist church, even affiliated with a denomination, has to pay dues.  Those affiliating themselves with the name tend to be independently minded (which is probably why it gets confused with non-denominational.  But also why a church just having the name Baptist on it doesn't mean much in understanding what they believe.)

 

The Baptist group I grew up in was part of that group because they supported missionaries that were put out by a particular missions group. A bunch of churches banded together to help support missions. That's it. Otherwise each church decided for itself what it believed, etc.

 

I am currently a member of a Southern Baptist church. We DO pay dues to the denomination -- both statewide and national. But how much we send to each is evidently determined by the church in Budget meetings, NOT declared from the top down. Because its been discussed with an eye to changing those numbers in our budget meetings.

 

I was also a member of a Regular Baptist (GARB. General Association of Regular Baptist) church for a time. Which meant they were affiliated with other Regular Baptist churches. Either I wasn't interested enough at the time or they didn't have their budget as open and transparent because I don't remember hearing if they paid to a national denomination board or not.

 

I've also heard of "Missionary Baptists" "American baptist" "Primitive baptist" "Reformed Baptist" "Free will Baptist"  and I'm sure there are many well.

 

(And suddenly the spelling of the word baptist looks wrong to me? Not sure why)

 

I've also been a member of an independent "Church" affiliated with nothing that I thought felt very baptist in its views, etc. But they were adamantly NOT Baptist. And we long time attended an Evangelical Free Church that felt similar as well. But was yet another, non-baptist, denomination.

 

ETA: I just remembered Berean Baptist -- which may have been independent of every group whatsoever but still used the word Baptist.

 

[Slache]

Slache, just so you know, I get what you're saying.  I know you weren't saying that Catholics aren't Christians.  I think there's a bit of a knee jerk reaction going on with your statement, but I hear that you meant that where you live something labeled "Christian" would most likely mean it's coming from the non-denominational/evangelical type of Christian point of view.  A Catholic activity would say that, "Catholic," not "Christian."  It's not that they (or anyone) doesn't think of Catholics as Christians, necessarily, it's just the wording that is typically used.  Nothing about beliefs, all about wording. 

I AM SO BAD AT THIS!

 

If you know this to be an incorrect use of the term, why not be the change you want to see? A gentle correction from someone within the group might be better received than a criticism from one of the "others".

Generally, in my experience, the people who call themselves Christian do not believe that Catholics are Christian and would have no interest in changing anything.

[MFG]

Not all non-denominationals are baptists. For that matter, there is a lot of variety in what baptist means.

I was just repeating Slache's wording. However, in my experience, most non-denominational groups are baptistic in their teaching and practice. Do you have in mind a group that is not? If I was referring to a Baptist denomination I would use the capital B. I use of the lower case b as a shorthand way to refer to baptistic practice.

[TechWife]

Baptist is, after all, a denomination.  If a church is non-denominational, they can't also be Baptist (even if they agree pretty much in flavor and teaching - are they only 'non-denominational' to get out of paying their denominational dues?)

 

- signed wacky person who belongs to a church that is a member of two denominations - and pays dues to them both...

 

However, a church can be baptistic in their doctrine without being baptist by denomination. 

 

I've never heard of denominational dues, either as a former Roman Catholic or a current Southern Baptist. I can't speak certainly for the RC church, but the Southern Baptist Convention has no such thing. 

[Tsuga]

May I suggest that getting into the whole "you branched off" "no YOU branched off" "no YOU GUYS branched off" "nu-uh YOU branched off" Original Christian Gangsta debate is probably not helpful, nor will any new information on this debate be brought up in this thread?

 

I mean it's always entertaining to watch people get really excited about who said what first between the Romans and the Byzantines, Luther and the Pope, because I usually get some really tedious links to follow. I'm just not sure anyone's going to move since this has been going on for approximately 1,700 years.

[TammyS]

There were non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Protestants long before the reformation

 

I'll probably kick myself for asking, but I just gotta....

 

What were they protesting?

 

[redsquirrel]

That should be brought to the groups attention. However, when I think "Christian" I do not think Catholic at all. There are so many massive doctrinal differences. When I hear Christian I think non-denominational/baptist type people. Maybe it's a regional thing. I would assume that a Christian group would take the Bible literally while a Methodist group would do what Methodists do and a Catholic group would do what Catholics do.

 

Wow.  Well, I think that is not in line with what much of the world believes. It's find if you hold to that, and don't think of people like Methodists and Catholics and Mormons and Presbyterians and Quakers and whatever as Christian...but you should know that you might run into some problems with that definition. If you have been getting funny looks from those outside your small circle I might have found the reason why.

 

As a non-christian, I think anyone who is worshiping Jesus or or sees Jesus as the divine son of god is a christian. If a group calls itself Christian then I go with that. To stand outside of that group and tell them they are incorrect seems both patronizing and insulting. To do so without even bothering to learn why they call themselves christian seems.... incurious at the least.

 

Other than that, I leave that to all of you to fight over. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do find it entertaining.

 

[Slache]

I was just repeating Slache's wording. However, in my experience, most non-denominational groups are baptistic in their teaching and practice. Do you have in mind a group that is not? If I was referring to a Baptist denomination I would use the capital B. I use of the lower case b as a shorthand way to refer to baptistic practice.

 

It's a common joke that non denominational churches are just Baptist churches with a guitar and a better website. Also, I have no idea what should and shouldn't be capitalized in these threads as I just seem to step on everyone's toes.

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone want wine? I have wine.

[Miss Mousie]

Am I the only one who thinks that writing about dinosaurs in a class he *knows* to be YE is baiting?

 

:confused:

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

There's a mindset among some homeschoolers that if you pull your kids out of school, you're joining a new club called "homeschooling." So you join the support groups, enroll the kids in co-ops, pay your dues to the state organization. These are your people, you have joined them, you must teach your children to conform (at least enough to get along) because this is their tribe now. QED.

 

But for many of us, the local homeschool paradigm is even less tenable for our family than the local public school paradigm! Just because we have this thing in common of not sending our kids to ps, well, surprisingly that does not make these people my tribe. I would FAR sooner put my kid in the local public school than into most of these support groups and co-ops.

 

We opted out of public school. We did not then opt into the conservative-evangelical-Protestant-YE-right-wing political body that is the entity known in our state as "The ______ Association of Home Educators."

 

I think the pioneers of homeschooling understood this concept. Their homeschool was their own; otherwise they got together with others, homeschoolers or not, as opportunity and desire allowed. In this generation, if your kid is not in a co-op you aren't homeschooling. If you don't attend support group meetings (at a church) you are not Doing It Right.

 

But it doesn't have to be that way. We don't have to leave one paradigm that is unacceptable to our family (public school) in order to feel forced into a paradigm that's an even worse, and possibly more harmful, fit for our children.

 

Does that make sense?

 

In some areas (like mine) homeschooled kids can do their entire pre-K through graduation experience without ever setting foot in a homeschool group. Mine have. There's plenty else going on, from church to YMCA to Civil Air Patrol to TKD. In other places with fewer opportunities, teens can still get jobs and follow their own interests if they're of that temperament to find fulfillment that way. Not every young person could do that, but some can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Oh, good Lord. While I was typing we starting defining Christianity.

[MFG]

 

Does anyone want wine? I have wine.

I would love some wine. Wine makes everything better.

[Slache]

Wow.  Well, I think that is not in line with what much of the world believes. It's find if you hold to that, and don't think of people like Methodists and Catholics and Mormons and Presbyterians and Quakers and whatever as Christian...but you should know that you might run into some problems with that definition. If you have been getting funny looks from those outside your small circle I might have found the reason why.

 

As a non-christian, I think anyone who is worshiping Jesus or or sees Jesus as the divine son of god is a christian. If a group calls itself Christian then I go with that. To stand outside of that group and tell them they are incorrect seems both patronizing and insulting. To do so without even bothering to learn why they call themselves christian seems.... incurious at the least.

 

Other than that, I leave that to all of you to fight over. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do find it entertaining.

 

I don't mean the word in general, but with a group. If someone told me they were the head of a Christian singing group I would assume it wasn't Catholic.

 

Oh, good Lord. While I was typing we starting defining Christianity.

Sorry.

[redsquirrel]

I AM SO BAD AT THIS!

 

Generally, in my experience, the people who call themselves Christian do not believe that Catholics are Christian and would have no interest in changing anything.

 

Maybe you need more experiences? Because I know PLENTY of Catholics and all varieties of Protestants and they ALL call themselves Christian.

[Guest]

Am I the only one who thinks that writing about dinosaurs in a class he *knows* to be YE is baiting?

 

:confused:

You're wrong. My son always writes about dinosaurs and he didn't think twice about what to write about when asked to compare two things. He's pretty obsessed. I'm sure if he wasn't so interested in dinosaurs, we wouldn't have the issues we have.

[milovany]

I don't think it was what you said or intended Slache.  Others jumped off with what they thought you meant and started schooling you about what Christian means (the knee-jerk reaction aforementioned).  You have tried to clarify but it's like no one is listening.  It was helpful how you described that you're talking about a group calling itself a Christian group.  That would mean something specific because members of that group likely don't think Catholics are Christians.  You weren't saying you think that way. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Oh, good Lord. While I was typing we starting defining Christianity.

 

:smilielol5:  :smilielol5:  :smilielol5:

 

ETA: Sorry, that's not snark. Tibbie's flabbergasted response just made me laugh!

 

[TammyS]

Am I the only one who thinks that writing about dinosaurs in a class he *knows* to be YE is baiting?

 

:confused:

 

I hadn't thought of it, but it might be.  As a teacher, I'd be ok with that, though.  I want kids at this age to start engaging with ideas and wrestling with controversy.    Not to be rude or mean, but to work their brains.

 

Personally, if it were my kid and he wanted to go, I'd buy him a set of beginning apologetics books and start teaching him some responses to really fire things up around there.  But I'm a trouble maker.

[redsquirrel]

I don't mean the word in general, but with a group. If someone told me they were the head of a Christian singing group I would assume it wasn't Catholic.

 

Sorry.

 

Ok, so that makes some sense to me...but to be fair, if someone told me they were the head of a 'Christian Singing Group" or..to further your example, attended a 'Christian elementary school' as opposed to a "Catholic elementary school" I wouldn't assume they were YE.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Am I the only one who thinks that writing about dinosaurs in a class he *knows* to be YE is baiting?

 

:confused:

 

No.

 

Unless these particular YEs don't believe there were dinosaurs and have forbidden the topic. In which case it's even more important that children from the community do not attend their academic co-ops.

 

This was just a child writing about something factual (!) that he's interested in, having no reason to question his own education about it... Which is what children are supposed to do.

[LucyStoner]

Can you see how that would feel from outside your group - as if you had kidnapped the term 'Christian'?

Exactly. Non-demominational non-liturgical churches do not get to break off from the Catholic and Orthodox churches and take the word 'Christian' as belonging solely to themselves anymore than I can move into your house, hang new curtains and call the whole house "mine".

[Slache]

Ok, so that makes some sense to me...but to be fair, if someone told me they were the head of a 'Christian Singing Group" or..to further your example, attended a 'Christian elementary school' as opposed to a "Catholic elementary school" I wouldn't assume they were YE.

I would assume they were creationists.

 

No.

 

Unless these particular YEs don't believe there were dinosaurs and have forbidden the topic. In which case it's even more important that children from the community do not attend their academic co-ops.

 

This was just a child writing about something factual (!) that he's interested in, having no reason to question his own education about it... Which is what children are supposed to do.

Is this a thing?

[vonfirmath]

I would assume they were creationists.

 

Is this a thing?

 

Of course not. My YE kids LOVE dinosaurs and dragons and devour everything there is about them.  And would be writing their own reports (well, at a age 3 and 7 level) about dinosaurs and how maybe all those diverse legends of dragons come from what we now call dinosaurs. etc.  (My 3 year old went to AWANAS one night with a fact about animals "Dinosaurs are dragons!" Teaching them early.

 

[Matryoshka]

There were non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Protestants long before the reformation. I know that Catholics believe the Bible. I don't have a term, but around here "Christian" groups have beliefs staunchly opposed to Catholic beliefs and tend not to mix well doctrinally or spiritually. I was trying to say that if I heard about Moxie's group I would not have been surprised at the strong YEC aspect.

 

You mean the 'heretics' that the Catholics burned at the stake or otherwise tried to wipe off the face of the earth?  I don't think they thought of themselves as "Protestant".  I think they also thought of themselves as Christian.  The Church just didn't agree...  I mean, sure there were lots of different sects/flavors of Christianity going back to the beginning, that's what the Council of Nicea was trying to get rid of - trying to get everyone on the same page.

 

If that's not who you mean, who were the "Protestants" before the Reformation?  Whoever, it was, it sure wasn't American non-denominational YEC'ers, or anyone tangentially related to them.  I'm 100% sure that the current people who have co-opted the word Christian would find even less in common with them than they do with modern-day Catholics... and rule them out as being Christian at all...

 

[*Alyssa*]

It's a common joke that non denominational churches are just Baptist churches with a guitar and a better website. Also, I have no idea what should and shouldn't be capitalized in these threads as I just seem to step on everyone's toes.

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone want wine? I have wine.

 

All the Baptists said, "Did she just offer wine?"  :ohmy:

 

:laugh:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

 

Is this a thing?

 

It's undoubtedly a very small faction of an already small group, but yeah. They're out there. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. The mindset is that the devil (or whoever, not God) placed all the fossils and whatnot as a massive deception.

 

More often, YEC people will allow dinosaurs but not secular resources (like Usborne books) that mention 'millions of years' or the prehistoric eras. Which really curtails dinosaur talk because there aren't a lot of YEC dinosaur resources.

 

[elegantlion]

I'll take wine, please and thank you.

[Slache]

Of course not. My YE kids LOVE dinosaurs and dragons and devour everything there is about them.  And would be writing their own reports (well, at a age 3 and 7 level) about dinosaurs and how maybe all those diverse legends of dragons come from what we now call dinosaurs. etc.  (My 3 year old went to AWANAS one night with a fact about animals "Dinosaurs are dragons!" Teaching them early.

We're a hard core YEC family. :) I was just wondering if there were others who don't believe in dinosaurs.

 

You mean the 'heretics' that the Catholics burned at the stake or otherwise tried to wipe off the face of the earth?  I don't think they thought of themselves as "Protestant".  I think they also thought of themselves as Christian.  The Church just didn't agree...  I mean, sure there were lots of different sects/flavors of Christianity going back to the beginning, that's what the Council of Nicea was trying to get rid of - trying to get everyone on the same page.

 

If that's not who you mean, who were the "Protestants" before the Reformation?  Whoever, it was, it sure wasn't American non-denominational YEC'ers, or anyone tangentially related to them.  I'm 100% sure that the current people who have co-opted the word Christian would find even less in common with them than they do with modern-day Catholics... and rule them out as being Christian at all...

 

I think you and I are on the same page with the first paragraph. I was short because I was trying not to derail the thread. Again.

[LucyStoner]

Generally, in my experience, the people who call themselves Christian do not believe that Catholics are Christian and would have no interest in changing anything.

It's this sort of statement that makes your words easy to, as you say misinterpret.

 

If in fact most Christians who call themselves Christians believe that (which I strongly doubt is true) then most Christians are simply wrong about this. I really don't think that most Christians are that bigoted against Catholics or share one conservative interpretation that lines up with the YEC fervor sweeping the homeschool movement. Most American Christians are part of a denomination of some sort of the other, a sizable number of them are Catholics. Homeschoolers are still a small minority and even if that group is a majority of homeschoolers, they are hardly the largest chunk of American Christians.

 

It wasn't a 100 years ago that my family tree contains violence against Catholics for being Catholic, including a murder of a young husband and father. Anti-Catholic bigotry is not harmless.

[albeto.]

Is this a thing?

 

Of course!

 

Christians Against Dinosaurs

 

:laugh:

[Tsuga]

It's this sort of statement that makes your words easy to, as you say misinterpret.

 

If in fact most Christians who call themselves Christians believe that (which I strongly doubt is true) then most Christians are simply wrong about this. I really don't think that most Christians are that bigoted against Catholics or share one conservative interpretation that lines up with the YEC fervor sweeping the homeschool movement. Most American Christians are part of a denomination of some sort of the other. Homeschoolers are still a small minority and even if that group is a majority of homeschoolers, they are hardly the largest chunk of American Christians.

 

It wasn't a 100 years so that my family tree contains violence against Catholics for being Catholic, including a murder. Anti-Catholic bigotry is not harmless.

 

I like the fact that you are pointing this out. Not that your family was persecuted.

[Slache]

It's this sort of statement that makes your words easy to, as you say misinterpret.

 

If in fact most Christians who call themselves Christians believe that (which I strongly doubt is true) then most Christians are simply wrong about this. I really don't think that most Christians are that bigoted against Catholics or share one conservative interpretation that lines up with the YEC fervor sweeping the homeschool movement. Most American Christians are part of a denomination of some sort of the other. Homeschoolers are still a small minority and even if that group is a majority of homeschoolers, they are hardly the largest chunk of American Christians.

 

It wasn't a 100 years so that my family tree contains violence against Catholics for being Catholic, including a murder. Anti-Catholic bigotry is not harmless.

There's violence on both sides. I don't dislike Catholics, I just think they're wrong. I'm not a bigot (not that you were calling me one).

 

Of course!

 

Christians Against Dinosaurs

 

:laugh:

Trolls don't count.

[BigMamaBird]

I believe that Catholics are Christians, but if you say Christian I automatically think Protestant simply because, around here, Catholics tend to label themselves as Catholic.  The Catholic School, the Catholic Bookstore, etc.  It's a definition that they tend to use for themselves.  

 

The Christian Bookstore is going to have Veggie Tales, Beth Moore books, NIV Bibles, little knick-nacks. The Catholic Bookstore is going to have Catholic Bibles, rosaries, books on the Saints, icons, advertisements for the Knights of Columbus fish fry.  

[Catwoman]

Oh, good Lord. While I was typing we starting defining Christianity.

Yes, but we all know it will end as it always does, with lots of hugs and smiles and understanding, so it's all good. :hurray:

 

Oh. Wait. That's not how it ends. Ever. :glare:

 

As soon as I read Slache's post, I knew the responses wouldn't be pleasant. I didn't think she meant anything negative, but I had a strong feeling that others would interpret her intentions differently than I did.

 

OTOH, at least Moxie's thread keeps getting bumped to the top, so maybe we will eventually roll back around to her original topic. :)

[Slache]

I believe that Catholics are Christians, but if you say Christian I automatically think Protestant simply because, around here, Catholics tend to label themselves as Catholic.  The Catholic School, the Catholic Bookstore, etc.  It's a definition that they tend to use for themselves.  

 

The Christian Bookstore is going to have Veggie Tales, Beth Moore books, NIV Bibles, little knick-nacks. The Catholic Bookstore is going to have Catholic Bibles, rosaries, books on the Saints, icons, advertisements for the Knights of Columbus fish fry.  

THIS! Thisthisthis!

[Slache]

Yes, but we all know it will end as it always does, with lots of hugs and smiles and understanding, so it's all good. :hurray:

 

Oh. Wait. That's not how it ends. Ever. :glare:

 

As soon as I read Slache's post, I knew the responses wouldn't be pleasant. I didn't think she meant anything negative, but I had a strong feeling that others would interpret her intentions differently than I did.

 

OTOH, at least Moxie's thread keeps getting bumped to the top, so maybe we will eventually roll back around to her original topic. :)

I should just stick to the math and phonics threads.

[redsquirrel]

I would assume they were creationists.

 

Is this a thing?

 

I might assume this imaginary person to be a creationist...but when I hear "creationist" I certainly don't think 'young earth'.  The two are not interchangeable.

 

And, as someone who only knows about YE, from what I read here and pictures from that 'Creationist museum' that go around the internet and perusing the occasional curriculum... I would believe that there YE people who don't believe in dinosaurs, and tell their kids that it is something the devil made up to trick us or something. I figured that was what most of you do. There are so many quantifiable, verifiable things that must be rejected and denied to accept a YE world view  that dinosaurs seem like a small thing.  Just toss them on the pile with everything else.

[KungFuPanda]

Are the people kind? If they are kind, and the program has merit, I don't think it's abusive to allow your kids to participate. Many here have implied that it is, but I disagree. It sounds like your DS handled the situation appropriately and if the teacher didn't press further then your DS diffused things by himself and life moved on swimmingly. From your description it doesn't sound like your son is dwelling or stewing. As long as there is no attempt to bully or humiliate your child, I don't see him sitting through a few presentations as hostile. It's much more hostile to hover and yank the kid at the end.

 

My husband attended a very good Catholic high school. Since the education was sound, people of other faiths also sent their sons. The Jewish and Protestant kids sat through mass, religious ed, and classes taught by the Irish Christian brothers. They weren't expected to convert or anything, just learn from a very Catholic viewpoint and be respectful. When you are a minority in a situation, you make more concessions, but it's possible to reach a deeper understanding than the majority. You can't expect things to be customized exactly for you. That's special snowflake territory.

[HRAAB]

I understand how Moxie feels. I understand your kids wanting to remain connected to a group because it's the only group to be connected to. I understand feeling that programs are not described honestly in the flyers. No I don't expect a field trip to the zoo with a picnic in the park to turn into an evangelization session. But that is what it is. I finally stopped to save my sanity. Unfortunately, in our case, the Catholic homeschooling group (my twins are Catholic) is starting to resemble the YECs (not to mention the dress code some members decided to implement). We do have a secular group which we're starting to get involved with. Other than that, my twins are active in their parish youth group and have made friends there. Most of the Catholic homeschoolers I'm aware of aren't very involved with their parishes.

 

I'm sorry. It's a tough position to be in. For me, it was easier and necessary to quit the homeschooling activities. Plus all the evangelizing was having a negative effect - not about being Catholic but about Christianity in general.

[Tsuga]

 

 

I understand your kids wanting to remain connected to a group because it's the only group to be connected to.

 

If she is in the United States public schools are not allowed to deny entrance to your children. Homeschool groups are never the ONLY groups.

 

She is making this choice.

[HRAAB]

If she is in the United States public schools are not allowed to deny entrance to your children. Homeschool groups are never the ONLY groups.

 

She is making this choice.

I understand your point, but it isn't very helpful.

[Tenaj]

Am I the only one who thinks that writing about dinosaurs in a class he *knows* to be YE is baiting?

 

:confused:

 

 

I was thinking the same thing.  

 

Kids who believe in YE run into this everywhere:  zoo, every museum, every science book about animals.  My kids have all learned to ignore or adjust.  If they were in a class where the majority didn't believe as they do and they chose a topic on Creation as a writing assignment, they would be expecting a conversation if not more.

[Audrey]

I understand from whence you are coming.  The insidiousness of the YE ilk is frustrating and annoying at the very least, but when it is directed at young children, then it is dangerous.

 

However, I agree with the PPs who suggest that you find non-homeschool-related outlets for your children.   I would not bring my kid to any hs related activities near here because I know it will be filled with indoctrination attempts of which I do not approve.  There are, however, many secular, public, non-homeschool-related outlets from which to choose.  So, I choose those.  I am sure there must be acceptable outlets available in your area, too.  It may take a bit of homework to source them out, but it will be worth it for your peace of mind and your children's safety and edification.

[LucyStoner]

There's violence on both sides. I don't dislike Catholics, I just think they're wrong. I'm not a bigot (not that you were calling me one).

 

 

Of course there's a history of violence that is not one sided. The Catholic Church does not have totally clean hands, certainly as we all know about the inquisition. Though at least they did pardon Galileo. It took them awhile (ha ha ha) but they finally did. If some YEC groups had the power the Catholic Church had then and there, I shudder to think what would play out.

 

What we do have in the United States though is a fairly recent legacy of violent groups who ideologically align with a small subset of Protestant Christian groups. I am not presently aware of any Catholics skinheads, Catholic KKKs or Catholic paramilitary compounds. My family member was killed by members of a loosely organized group also responsible for racial, religious and anti-immigrant violence. Unfortunately the same and other similar groups still very much exist. While few people with anti-Catholic beliefs would ever go to their extremes or are violent extremists, it's a part of American history people tend to skim over. We seem to all know about racial lynchings and forget about the rest of it.