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Here is the carp I'm dealing with--YE people, look here


Moxie
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I think you may need to give up on using these resources, Moxie.  There was only one specific home education activity in the years that I home educated in Scotland: a monthly book group.  Apart from that, my children did activities that were not connected with home education: chess club, young engineers, Taekwondo, Karate, Scouts.  

 

The children who go to public schools - are there non-religious activities for them?

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I feel your frustration. It would be great if some people's beliefs didn't come into every second of every day of their whole life. Unfortunately I think that if this is a program run by a YE group you might either have to learn to deal with it or go somewhere else. I guess they do have a right to bring their agenda into every situation, obnoxious as that may be. I can see where it would be frustrating though.

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I think you may need to give up on using these resources, Moxie.  

 

 

The children who go to public schools - are there non-religious activities for them?

 

I have to agree here.  As was mentioned, you won't be the first or the last who does not have many options to choose from because of your beliefs.  I understand it is frustrating.

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Have you thought about starting a Catholic homeschooling group? Or a truly all faiths (or no faith) accepted group?

 

We are fortunate to have a lot of options where we live that essentially never tread into religious propaganda. With Facebook and MeetUp it's pretty simple to get things going if there is demand in your area. I assume that there are Catholic Churches in your area. Start there. Even if there aren't many homescholers, maybe there are after schoolers.

 

Also, in that large of a Protestant community there are quite likely some would would prefer a neutral or OE option.

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I agree with Laura that if the homeschooling community where you are is not a good fit you may need to look outside that community for activities for your kids. Or create your own events and activities.

 

I am sorry this is a source of frustration to you and your children. I suspect that YE believers go out of their way to create a YE haven within their community since they are so very much in the minority in the world at large; doubtless they feel bombarded by non-YE attitudes and resources everywhere else.

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All you YE people, please knock it off.  If I want your views on the creation, I'll sign up for your creation classes.  If you want to host a writing class or a play or an open gym night, great!!  If you plan on using your activity as a chance to push your YE agenda on me and mine, do me the courtesy of mentioning it on your flyer. 

 

 

 

Your anger is misdirected. This post is the equivalent of a passive-aggressive Facebook status addressed to "you" instead of the person or people who are actually responsible.

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Have you thought about starting a Catholic homeschooling group? Or a truly all faiths (or no faith) accepted group?

 

We are fortunate to have a lot of options where we live that essentially never tread into religious propaganda. With Facebook and MeetUp it's pretty simple to get things going if there is demand in your area. I assume that there are Catholic Churches in your area. Start there.

Yes, and then my husband wisely points out that I have no time. 

 

We've done activities (Scouts and sports) with the school that is connected to our church.  The kids all go to school together and have no interest in including my kids so my kids didn't enjoy it.

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:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I do wish that YE was made clear, too, especially when looking at educational and social opportunities for the kids.  If they would only just say that is the viewpoint that will be represented, please, especially if it is STRONGLY represented in everything the organization does.  Let people know BEFORE they put their money down and put their kids in.  

 

I'm Protestant, FWIW and until just this past year I had never really heard of YE so I didn't even know to look for YE references.  This YE viewpoint is not true for all Protestant based organizations.  The first group we joined, which was Protestant based, by the way, was very accepting of any belief system or non-belief system and never mentioned YE.  Sadly, they hardly do anything anymore.  

 

ETA: I realize you want to vent your frustrations and I totally get that.  I was struggling with some of the YE stuff at Landry Academy, even though the classes are usually well done.  I complained a bit to buddies, then found ways to work around the material I find less than scientifically accurate.

 

I do wonder why you are continuing to put your children in activities provided by organizations with viewpoints you strongly disagree with, though.  Starting your own group may take a ton of work, but maybe just start really small?  And seek non-homeschooling resources for more organized, extensive options?

 

 

But absolutely be proud of your son.  Goodness he handled that well!

Best wishes.

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Do you understand now why I want my daughter to be able to contact me?  The environment isn't unsafe but it might just be another giant YE commercial. 

 

 

 

Respectfully, I don't get it.

 

So, there's a high probability that this camp/activity will be annoying to her, annoying to you, and in conflict with your beliefs.  If, indeed, it is, I assume you'll pick her up early the first day, and not come back.  In that case, she'll be already ticked off, you'll be ticked off, you'll be out money, and you'll both be out of the activity for the rest of the week.

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Yes, and then my husband wisely points out that I have no time.

 

We've done activities (Scouts and sports) with the school that is connected to our church. The kids all go to school together and have no interest in including my kids so my kids didn't enjoy it.

I get that, especially with a lot of kids. That said, if there's interest you'd be surprised how much comes together quickly. I am coordinating a few homeschool events. It's truthfully not that much work to do that on Facebook and other people also offer events we can then attend. You can start a group without starting a co-op or class structure. There's a synergy to connecting with other like minded folks.
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You should be very proud of your son, Moxie!

 

I agree. Moxie, maybe you can start a meetup in your area for secular homeschool activities [ETA: park days, meet for ice cream, go swimming at the community pool in the summer, nothing intensive]. Who knows how many people in your area feel just like you but feel alone? Of course you won't have the same resources, but at least you'd start to have each other. 

 

In the mean time, the opportunity to develop the fine art of satire sounds absolutely delicious. 

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Anyone running a group will be colored by their own worldview. I happen to be YE, yet I don't get into a tizzy when someone teaches evolution to my children. Heck, I am glad they are able to hear all sides of the arguments from the source themselves so they are able to make an informed decision.

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For socializing and building friendships,I have found that regular get togethers with just one or two families work better than larger co-op type settings. If you are not up to organizing something structured, go with an unstructured weekly play date.

 

For academic classes, you can either put up with the YE viewpoint and discuss your own viewpoint at home, or you could choose an acceptable online class.

 

For sports and other activities, look outside the homeschool and church community.

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Well, my guess is that the coop is looking to teach all subjects from a Christian worldview.  They'd say there are no "secular" subjects. To them, YE is part of that.  And it is an important issue.  It gets to the inerrancy of the Bible, original sin, etc.

 

I am YE and I teach writing classes in which most of the students are evangelical Christians and YE. Students write a research paper and sometimes they write to defend evolution.  That's fine.  I would never confront them about it; I am working on their writing skills.  Now, if it comes up in a class discussion (for example, in a persuasive writing class), these students would be greatly outnumbered.  I work to keep the discussion balanced and friendly and don't take a side. In fact, I often take the evolution side because I want the YE kids to learn how to defend their beliefs. In any case, having a minority opinion is part of life and something students should learn to deal with.  A homeschool coop is about as safe a chance to practice this as you'll get.

 

So, I still don't get why your 12 year old needs to break the rules and take a cell phone.  Do you want her to pull it out and call you to come get her if someone says she can't be a Christian if she's not YE?  If it's that bad, don't send her.  I think it's better to teach her to handle it.

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For socializing and building friendships,I have found that regular get togethers with just one or two families works better than larger co-op type settings. If you are not up to organizing something structured, go with an unstructured weekly play date.

 

For academic classes, you can either put up with the YE viewpoint and discuss your own viewpoint at home, or you could choose an acceptable online class.

 

For sports and other activities, look outside the homeschool and church community.

:iagree:

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I honestly feel like you are in pain and struggling to fit in. I am sorry :(

 

I have just recently started my own homeschool group. It is very informal and we have one activity a month. Last month we went to the park, and this next month we are going to a museum. Maybe you could do something like that with the people of your beliefs. It really is not that hard to do. You just have to get a few families together to start off with.

 

Side note....please, we YE people on this board are not trying to hurt you or your kiddos. This post makes me sad.

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Just start a park day.  It's literally no pre-planning beyond finding a few interested families and saying, "Every ____day around ____ o'clock, let's meet up at ______ Park so they kids can play and we can have some mom time."  

 

We are Protestant Christians and go to an inclusive park day with families who are Mormon, Catholic, Atheist, Muslim... it's a seriously diverse group and religion never comes up, because there are too many other interesting things to chat about.  It's also kind of cool that my kids have the opportunity to meet and enjoy the company of all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds.

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It sounds like you live in a fairly diverse community and this is really bugging you.

 

The heathens will take you if you'd like to join us. :) We do all kinds of cool stuff, no creationism required.

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#1 you should be proud of your son. He handled that very well. I am impressed.

 

#2   Why the heck are you putting your kids in that situation? It is their group. It is their decision to make it the place they want it to be. If you don't like it, offer classes of your own, get on the board and make suggestions, etc  But a co-op run by a specific group catering to that specific group is under ZERO obligation to cater to your specific needs.  Are they keeping their religious affiliation a secret or something?  I can totally understand being upset and frustrated that there aren't any groups that meet your specific needs. There are lots of us in that situation. I can understand being furious if the group was disingenuous about what their goals are or who they are or what their affiliations are. But I cannot understand being angry with this group for doing what it is in their very nature to do.  I mean, people are going to be angry about all kinds of stuff, but this seems particularly useless. It isn't going to change and it's not their fault that they have the co-op they set out to create.

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It sounds like you live in a fairly diverse community and this is really bugging you.

 

The heathens will take you if you'd like to join us. :) We do all kinds of cool stuff, no creationism required.

I've been homeschooling in this town for 9 years. I've looked for the heathen groups with no success.

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Yes, and then my husband wisely points out that I have no time. 

 

We've done activities (Scouts and sports) with the school that is connected to our church.  The kids all go to school together and have no interest in including my kids so my kids didn't enjoy it.

 

Have you don't the things, Scouts and sports, that are NOT connected to your church? Then religion won't be an issue at all. Or do you not want them participating in secular groups either?

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I understand your frustration with the way some Protestant ye communities try to shove that particular believe down kids throats, especially if they know the family is not be. It is a reason I will never allow my children to participate in the coop wheremy dh teaches martial arts. But taking out your frustration on ye individuals in the forum is misguided. Take the issue up with the coop or don't allow your children to participate there

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Moxie, kids have to learn to maintain equanimity in many different kinds of situations; that's the reason I kept my kids in group sports classes at the local rec centers.  If your kids know your family does not tow the same line as is being espoused, that won't hurt them--people have to reconcile and fit in with divergent thought in many circles. 

 

You seem much more upset than your son did; he handled it beautifully!  It's exactly the kind of diplomacy and calm thinking that you *want* him to have in his toolkit.  If you allow them to take such risks, they will be better-equipped adults for having weathered the (mild) adversity.

 

If you daughter is bothered, coach her through the situations, but do so from a chosen state of calm yourself.

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I agree that your son handled himself with great maturity, Moxie!

 

And I am reading you loud and clear, sister! You want your children to have friends, and to take advantage of what opportunities (few though they may be in your area) there are for homeschoolers. You don't want to be that homeschool family- you know, the freaks who isolate their children, and who don't participate in any of those wonderful programs which are available. :glare: But you always come away from those activities feeling icky and uncomfortable. Sadly, the activities you describe are  all that seem to be available in many areas, so you are left feeling like you're caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

I think I have shared this before, but we were in a very similar situation when we lived in Mordor. (Actually, we're in a similar situation here, but at least we have extended family close now to hang out with.) The only homeschool "support" group available to us in our rather small town/surrounding towns was a super-conservative LEAH group. We were the *only* family in that group homeschooling for academic and not religious reasons. At one of their end of the semester events, one of my flute students (a member of the only Catholic family in the group) played a short piece. She had been working hard on the Bach/Gounod Ave Maria, and that is what I planned for her to play. Her mother came to me, and said that she would prefer that her daughter not play the Ave Maria because she didn't want to "ruffle any feathers." I was horrified that she felt she had to do that in order to keep the peace with those people! After the leader of the group dictated to me in no uncertain terms what my political opinion would be, ( :glare: not.cool.at.all.) I had finally had enough, and decided to leave. I was very distraught, because the only friends my daughter had, and the only children she really knew were in that group. Fortunately for us, my student's family kept in touch with us, and we continued to spend time with that family.

 

So that's my long-winded way of saying that I am very sorry you are dealing with this situation, and I wish you lived close to us, because we'd love to hang out with you!

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I've been homeschooling in this town for 9 years. I've looked for the heathen groups with no success.

 

Sounds like time to start one, then.

 

You can't expect people to run the group for the entire community. This ain't parks and rec. The church is there to reach out and get people to believe them and join them. That's their raison d'être.

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You need to stop doing things with this group.  I am sorry, because I know it can be hard to find friends.   I know kids want to do things. I also have trouble finding homeschool groups to do things with, though not related to this issue.  There are lots of reasons homeschoolers can't find like-minded homeschoolers.  My kids are lonely sometimes, but they have found friends in different ways. 

 

Do your kids have friends at church?

 

You don't like, respect, or trust these people!  I (among others) don't understand why you are hanging around them.

 

 

 

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I'm not Young Earth and I'm surrounded in them and I disagree with the cell phone policy but you CHOOSE to participate in those groups. Have the courtesy to follow the rules. It really is that simple. If it's an unsafe environment, my goodness, just don't participate!

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I think your son handled that really gracefully.

 

But blaming the group for espousing their beliefs when you choose to send your kids there?  And going so far as to blame these groups for your kid going to public school?  That does not seem logical.

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I get it.

 

I live in a small town. Driving 95 minutes somewhere else is not an option. There are no rec programs here, Scouts is hard to come by, all activities are tied to the school. The homeschoolers are super sheltering, not very academic, not a good fit. I finally found a karate program for my son. Hopefully he is young enough that everyone else being friends at school is not a problem yet.

 

The closest LEAH group only does co-ops, which we are not interested in(I work full time and cannot take another whole day out of my schedule to do electives and fun classes). The next closest group, on their statement of faith, wanted me to sign that I believe in traditional marriage and practice monogamy or celibacy. I told them that my personal life was between my husband and I, not them.

 

I have tried to start things. It's just not of interest to anyone else; they are happy in their church and homeschool group clique. I get it.

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I think your son handled that really gracefully.

 

But blaming the group for espousing their beliefs when you choose to send your kids there? And going so far as to blame these groups for your kid going to public school? That does not seem logical.

I am not blaming the groups for our school choice but the lack of a place where my son feels welcome is a huge reason.

 

And I don't give a fig what people believe but I take issue with an activity that is billed as one thing but turns out to be something else.

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I understand your difficulty.

 

However, I don't know that it's necessarily YE people you should be fussing at. Perhaps you just need to focus on socially awkward, rude individuals regardless of their religious affiliation.

 

I think your son handled that very well. Kudos to him!

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Yes, my son handled it well because he's been defending his beliefs (beliefs seems like a strange word to describe scientific facts) for 9 years.

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I'm still in these groups (more than one group) because my kids want to be there. They don't want to hang out at home all day. And, my kids are awesome so people call to hang out with them. What should I say to my children when Susie invites them to the Awana bring-a-friend night??

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I'm a devout evangelical Christian who is OE.  Yes, there are some branches of Christianity that have made creationism The Issue and filter everything through it.  I left a church that just started going down that path.

 

Start Your Own Group

 

I know people, particularly newer, younger homeschoolers, hiss and spit over this one.  I know you have kids and commitments, but let's face it, homeschooling has always been about finding or creating what your child needs.  Veteran homeschoolers managed to fight legal and legislative battles to make homeschooling available to the rest of us.  They managed to prepare their kids for the adult world without prepackaged curriculum choices.  They managed to start all those state and local homeschooling organizations we enjoy today.  They did it even though they had kids and commitments.  They managed even though they had zero support amongst the public and their relatives because no one had heard of homeschooling. 

 

So while I understand it's preferable to join a group someone else started, your reality may dictate starting your own or being reconciled to your situation.  Those other groups are private parties-everything in the homeschooling community is.  They went to the trouble to stat and maintain those groups and if they want to run a comparison/contrast writing assignment through the filter of creationism, they can do that.  If you want to run one through an evolutionist view, you go right ahead right after you start your own. Your group and be anything you want.

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 What should I say to my children when Susie invites them to the Awana bring-a-friend night??

 

"Sure, babe. Lemme know what time to drop you off and pick you up. You ready for the faith-junkie comments all night? Remember to not say anything rude because you're a guest, but don't forget to bring home the best ones!"

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We are not guaranteed friends in any group.  We are not guaranteed activities that we like in our locale.  We are guaranteed a public education in this country but you're not guaranteed to like that either.  

 

I don't do any homeschool groups because nothing fits our needs.  I don't blame anyone for that.  I look for things that do fit our needs.  Some have come with friends.  Some are just places to do sports or art or whatever.  If I can't find something, then I make do.  I've signed up for things before that were not a good fit.  I stopped going and sending my kids.  I still recognize that the groups are a good fit for others.  

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"Sure, babe. Lemme know what time to drop you off and pick you up. You ready for the faith-junkie comments all night? Remember to not say anything rude because you're a guest, but don't forget to bring home the best ones!"

Pretty much.

 

Which is hilarious to me. I'm an NFP using, homeschooling, pro-life, conservative and sometimes I feel like Lady Gaga around the other homeschoolers.

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I'm still in these groups (more than one group) because my kids want to be there. They don't want to hang out at home all day. And, my kids are awesome so people call to hang out with them. What should I say to my children when Susie invites them to the Awana bring-a-friend night??

 

As another Catholic mom in the midst of a protestant, YE world, what I would say is this:

 

Do you want to go?  If you go, you have to know that THIS is what it's going to be.  Let's talk about how you'll handle that.

 

Then, I'd let them handle it.  It's not going to kill them. 

 

At least there are kids for your kids to hang out with.  My son has slowly lost friends over the years as most of the homeschoolers in my area end up sending their teens to public school.

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You should be very proud of your son!  I feel your frustration and share it.  Secular activities are hard to find near me.  Even when I find secular moms, I end up feeling like not a fit because they are more..um...crunchy?  liberal? than I am.  My kids are so young I haven't experienced much YE.  In fact I never knew such belief existed until I started researching science curriculum.  I generally just bop along with my non-belief and get along (i.e. smile and keep my mouth shut because I prefer to live in a predominately Christian society), so I had no idea of some of the various beliefs out there.  And my husband is Christian and he didn't know about YE either.  Of course he's not a very good Christian in that, while he went to bible college at one point 20 years ago, he doesn't attend church and married a ... me!

 

For activities, mostly I'd just be silent and teach my children my beliefs at home, if the opportunity was overall worthwhile (for instance a Landry Academy lab).  Otherwise, I'd not let them participate.  I'd find an alternative if you are that concerned about the camp with the cell phone issue.

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And I don't give a fig what people believe but I take issue with an activity that is billed as one thing but turns out to be something else.

 

I would pretty much assume that for any activity sponsored by a religious group, I would need to do more research to determine the extent religious beliefs would come into play.  Even then I would be wary.

 

I once asked a co-op if there was any religious connotation to the activities and was told no, only later in the conversation she mentioned them offering prayer at the start of each class.

 

So respectfully, "Nature Hike sponsored by Bible-Believin' Church" I would consider to be billed openly as *potentially* having a religious connotation.  I would not consider it "just a nature hike", for example.

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I am not blaming the groups for our school choice but the lack of a place where my son feels welcome is a huge reason.

 

And I don't give a fig what people believe but I take issue with an activity that is billed as one thing but turns out to be something else.

I don't understand...you know these are protestant YE people who emphasize that particular viewpoint for whatever reason, right?

 

It's like sending your kid to a youth group event and being surprised there's a come to Jesus talk at the end. Once might catch someone off guard, but I doubt they are hiding their intentions or beliefs. And you clearly know their intentions and beliefs at this point even if they are being surreptitious.

 

I just think your frustration is misplaced. Not only in getting angry at YE people here, but getting angry at a group because they don't fit your expectations.

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Pretty much.

 

Which is hilarious to me. I'm an NFP using, homeschooling, pro-life, conservative and sometimes I feel like Lady Gaga around the other homeschoolers.

 

Feels a little like being the only sober person in the car, but not being allowed to drive, doesn't it?

 

:glare:

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As a YEC fundamentalist Christian I don't feel attacked at all and I feel the "this is misdirected" comments are irrelevant. I totally get what she's saying, but...

 

 

You can't go to a YEC group and get irritated with them for acting like a YEC group. I don't go to Catholic functions and complain about things you believe which I believe to be blasphemy. My house=my rules. I'm not going to change things just for you. Sorry.

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We've done activities (Scouts and sports) with the school that is connected to our church.  The kids all go to school together and have no interest in including my kids so my kids didn't enjoy it.

 

That was our experience in some activities - Hobbes was excluded in the football club that we tried out, because the other children went to school together.  We just persevered until we found kind niches.  Usually it needed a leader who wouldn't accept that kind of behaviour.

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I think what Moxie is getting at is that the group doesn't put on their flyers about the YE stuff being expressed. If someone new moves to town and doesnt belong to this group (doesn't know about the beliefs) and signs up only to find out after the first meeting and forking out the cash. I would be rather POed too if I signed up my girls and then have them come home spouting YE as fact because that's what the group teaches.

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Hey now, I didn't do that to your kids - don't yell at everyone who is YE because your local groups have some obnoxious people. It kind of feels the same way on the other side of the divide when everyone likes to tell your kids mommy and daddy are dumb and anti science because they believe in a different interpretation of the same evidence, that lines up with the narrative of scripture. Fun, eh?

 

I agree that it might be time to pick totally different activities for your kids if this is so bothersome to you. And I kind of wish we had more of that around here, because my family would feel right at home. There is another side to every coin, Moxie.

 

I always figure it is better to teach my kids to handle differences in belief gracefully and without caving - a dear church friend of mine actually commented to me last Friday that she purposely puts her kids in secular classes when she can, because she thinks it is good for them to be challenged and have to practice responses - her counter is asking lots of questions at home and helping her kids work through responses. That always seemed like a better solution to me than ranting that th rest of the world is against our position and thinks we're drooling, inbred idiots with no background in the scientific method.

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