Jill Duggar Dillard is pregnant.

[Guest]

I always get this impression that everyone thinks the Duggar children are brainless robots. She's a grown-up and she married a grown-up and I bet they know that there are ways to prevent pregnancy, yet they chose not to. That is their CHOICE. They can do what they want.

 

Congrats to them.

It is very hard for an adult raised in the manner promoted by ATI to even understand "choice," let alone execute it. Heaven help the first Duggar who doesn't tow the line.

[Word Nerd]

I didn't say anyone said it. I said I get the impression that people THINK that by responses about the Duggars. (That is, "do what mommy and daddy do because we can't think for ourselves.")

 

Given their own professed views of marriage and family and their adherence thus far to the same principles and practices they were raised with, is it unreasonable or inappropriate to assume that they share many if not most of the same core beliefs as their parents? I never said anything at all about not being able to think for themselves, but it's hardly shocking that they would choose not to prevent pregnancy.

[Mimm]

Good luck to her. I got married young and got pregnant very quickly. It was hard, I had a lot of growing up to do, I missed out on just husband and me time and I would not advise anyone to follow in my footsteps.

 

[Joanne]

She and Derick seem very thrilled to be expecting. I was just hoping they could have a bit of time to get to know each other as a couple before they did the parenting thing, especially since Jill has spent so many years in charge of younger siblings.  

 

Derick's mom is currently cancer free according to his Twitter account.  Yay for her!!! 

 

I think this can end speculation that not having any physical contact before marriage (other than holding hands) leads to an awkward wedding night. 

 

 

? No, it doesn't. The biology of conception can happen amidst much awkwardness.

 

 

I hope all are happy and healthy.

 

I just don't think life even "Blblical" life is so formulaic: basic homeschool, court, marry (heterosexual assumption), produce babies.

 

I'm sad that the family culture doesn't allow diversity, further education, and some mischief.

 

[Joanne]

I always get this impression that everyone thinks the Duggar children are brainless robots. She's a grown-up and she married a grown-up and I bet they know that there are ways to prevent pregnancy, yet they chose not to. That is their CHOICE. They can do what they want.

 

Congrats to them.

 

Brainless? Nope. Clearly their gene pool offers average to above average IQ.

 

A scripted, limited, and restricted choice list? Yes. Their whole lived experience and culture shaped their brains to where, as young adults, they truly DO NOT have a range of choices.

[idnib]

Why do people need a doctor to confirm a pregnancy?

 

It may turn out to have been extra helpings of pie.

[Rosie_0801]

It may turn out to have been extra helpings of pie.

 

There's some nasty stuff in those pies if they can make you skip periods. :svengo: 

[Serenade]

I've heard nasty speculation about the timining of her pregnancy not being right, and that just makes me angry on their behalf as they seem like such a nice couple. They probably timed the wedding for during the middle of her cycle so she wouldn't have to worry about AF on her wedding day or honeymoon. So I can totally believe her getting pregnant on her honeymoon.

 

 

My mom got pregnant on her honeymoon.   

[Joanne]

My mom got pregnant on her honeymoon.   

 

My mom didn't have a honeymoon (Dad was drafted for the Korean War and was serving in New Mexico.) But she had my oldest sister 11 months after the wedding and 11 months after THAT had next sister.

11 years later I  came along. My dad got a vasectomy as soon as her pregnancy was confirmed. I feel the love.;) She was advanced maternal age at that time (1966).

 

I'm glad my mom was an RN before all this.

[Catwoman]

Nm, oversharing ;)

This oversharing of mine is apparently a bad habit. Whoops.

I can't believe I missed the oversharing. TWICE. :glare:

 

Serves me right for getting off the iPad for a little while every now and then. ;)

[gardenmom5]

I don't get it either - BUT - home tests market themselves as being able to detect pg as early as the first day of your missed cycle.  some people just can't stand suspense.

 

I didn't get pg on my honeymoon (we wanted the date, so we dealt with flo), but you wouldn't believe the comments over the years I've had from people who think everyone is having s*x outside marriage and take it for granted that I must have just because 1dd was born nine months and four days after we were married. (she was on her due date - and the next three were ALL at least a week late!)

(I won't even go into my puritanical/snotty grandmother and her "what will people think?" um, we had s*x on our honeymoon? that should put her into a swoon.)

I've had two pregnancies I WAS symptomatic before my period was even due.  one was an aversion to chocolate when we went out for chocolate sundaes.  it was very sad.

not sure if a little voice telling me I was pg (so don't take that supplement) days after I would have conceived counts . . . I scoffed. but that would have been three where I didn't need to miss a cycle.

I think the fact that she was taking pregnancy tests less than 30 days after having sex is weird. Even when we were trying I waited till a missed period before taking a test. It's like their plan was to get preggo asap. You'd think they'd put getting to know each other ahead of becoming parents.

 

[SemiSweet]

I think the fact that she was taking pregnancy tests less than 30 days after having sex is weird. Even when we were trying I waited till a missed period before taking a test. It's like their plan was to get preggo asap. You'd think they'd put getting to know each other ahead of becoming parents.

I wouldn't think that. That lifestyle places her womb above all else. It seems very obvious that extreme importance would be placed on her fertility both for their religion and their show.

[Rosie_0801]

I wouldn't think that. That lifestyle places her womb above all else. It seems very obvious that extreme importance would be placed on her fertility both for their religion and their show.

 

And raising babies is something she knows how to do. I've, many times, felt I needed to justify my existence because I am raising kids andnot earning money. I suppose she would have the opposite problem.

[SemiSweet]

And raising babies is something she knows how to do. I've, many times, felt I needed to justify my existence because I am raising kids andnot earning money. I suppose she would have the opposite problem.

Yep, I've been on both sides of that fence, but in my life I've definitely been more out of mainstream when I'm at home with kids, especially as they got older. Of course, homeschooling just puts me wayyy out of mainstream.

 

I feel very sad that in this day and age there are still girls being raised to believe that they are only as valuable as the fruit of their wombs. I (obviously) have a huge problem with the Duggars and their lifestyle. My heart breaks for those kids.

[puddleduck]

I'm happy for them. I had my first baby 10 months after we got married. No regrets! Growing up in such a lovely family I believe she might very well be more grown up (ready for parenthood) than many her age and older.

[Guest]

Toe the line.

 

 

I'm looking forward to the tell all book.

Ah, well. I debated about it and decided perhaps it was "tow" like pulling on a tow-rope with everyone else. :D the other one about which I am never certain is "hear, here." Or is it repetitive: " here, here." But why would it be that? I go with "hear, here," as in, " I hear and agree, here."

[Chris in VA]

Not a fan of Gothard--not a fan of limited choice. Want to make that clear.

 

But

 

I announced "early" because I wanted prayers, and because I believe you become a mother at conception, so I wanted to share happy news.

 

And, although couples certainly get to know each other in a more realistic and perhaps "deep" way after marriage and I like the idea of waiting a bit to have kids, I at least consider that maybe because these two spent less time romantically active, iykwim, during courtship, and more time actually talking to each other and doing things together than the average premarriage young couple, they might know each other well enough to be quite bonded and all that .

 

Who's ready for kids, anyway, when you think of it--there's no "requirement" for couples to have X amt of time together before having kids--that that would make them better people or parents or couples.

 

IDK--I hope they are very happy, and I hope they have a healthy baby and continue to grow together.

[Carrie12345]

I have plenty of opinions on the Duggar thought process, BUT I also think everyone should be lucky enough to follow their bliss.  If this does it for her, more power to her! (Though maybe power is a misplaced word here... :tongue_smilie: )

 

Over-sharing, but I've conceived 7 times in the past almost 17 years.  In all that time, there have only been 2 months "without a goalie" in which I did not conceive. (And one month with a 99% effective goalie!)  It'd take a lot more than a honeymoon baby to shock me!

[JustEm]

 

 

I announced "early" because I wanted prayers, and because I believe you become a mother at conception, so I wanted to share happy news.

 

 

 

I announce early too, usually once I know, which has always been very early.  My thought is, why wait?  Even if I end up miscarrying, which I have, why wouldn't I want people to know that?  Its not something to sweep under the rug like it never happened.  When I miscarried I was glad everyone already knew I was pregnant because I got more support than I could have imagined.  If people hadn't known I would have only got support from others, aside from dh, if I went looking for it.  That is a lot to put on a woman in mourning.

[FaithManor]

I announce early too, usually once I know, which has always been very early. My thought is, why wait? Even if I end up miscarrying, which I have, why wouldn't I want people to know that? Its not something to sweep under the rug like it never happened. When I miscarried I was glad everyone already knew I was pregnant because I got more support than I could have imagined. If people hadn't known I would have only got support from others, aside from dh, if I went looking for it. That is a lot to put on a woman in mourning.

Th difference is no one made your grief a ratings game which is exactly what TLC will do. You also are not ATI so you probably are not aware that Michelle believes her own miscarriage early in marriage was the result of sin and that ATI teaches in their health and pregnancy newsletters that miscarriages, pregnancy, and labor/delivery issues are caused by female sin and spiritual warfare in the home including inanimate objects in the home such as cabbage patch and barbie dolls or worse, failure in the woman to be submissive enough to her husband. ATi teaches that women inside the "will of god" have easy pregnancies and deliveries. So while she might have some emotional support from her husband and parents, she is going to face derision and judgment from the spiritual community they hang with. In our local ATI community, once it is known that a woman has fertility issues, has lost a baby, or had a c section, that woman is shunned for fear her spiritual problems will rub off on the other women of childbearing age. It is another mechanism for controlling women through fear.

 

I don't see Jb or Michelle ever shunning over something like that. They seem to genuinely love their kids, but to have to go through that on national tv knowing what the religious community believes is what concerns me. That's why I wish she had waited.

[Kathryn]

I announce early too, usually once I know, which has always been very early. My thought is, why wait? Even if I end up miscarrying, which I have, why wouldn't I want people to know that? Its not something to sweep under the rug like it never happened. When I miscarried I was glad everyone already knew I was pregnant because I got more support than I could have imagined. If people hadn't known I would have only got support from others, aside from dh, if I went looking for it. That is a lot to put on a woman in mourning.

I agree so much. The one that we didn't tell right away for was the one we lost and it was so isolating. I felt like I couldn't mourn around others because it would seem attention-seeking to say "hey, I was pregnant and now I'm not" versus people already knowing and my answering questions.

[DawnM]

Don't you remember that oldest son's wife......Anna.....she got preg. after 3 or 4 months of marriage and came on TV after her 3rd month and said she was discouraged that they weren't pregnant yet.

 

 

Th difference is no one made your grief a ratings game which is exactly what TLC will do. You also are not ATI so you probably are not aware that Michelle believes her own miscarriage early in marriage was the result of sin and that ATI teaches in their health and pregnancy newsletters that miscarriages, pregnancy, and labor/delivery issues are caused by female sin and spiritual warfare in the home including inanimate objects in the home such as cabbage patch and barbie dolls or worse, failure in the woman to be submissive enough to her husband. ATi teaches that women inside the "will of god" have easy pregnancies and deliveries. So while she might have some emotional support from her husband and parents, she is going to face derision and judgment from the spiritual community they hang with. In our local ATI community, once it is known that a woman has fertility issues, has lost a baby, or had a c section, that woman is shunned for fear her spiritual problems will rub off on the other women of childbearing age. It is another mechanism for controlling women through fear.

I don't see Jb or Michelle ever shunning over something like that. They seem to genuinely love their kids, but to have to go through that on national tv knowing what the religious community believes is what concerns me. That's why I wish she had waited.

 

[kwickimom]

Why do people need a doctor to confirm a pregnancy?

 

I just said this because she got some negative tests and then a positive and its so early on. Normally I wouldnt, but I would make sure my "positives" outweighed my "negatives" before making a big announcement. 

[wonderchica]

It was discussed on the TV show or in the one of the books that the teenage girls help Michelle chart her cycles, and have in the past been the ones to prompt her to take pregnancy tests. I find that icky, but I'd imagine they probably charted for Jill and timed the wedding for when she was most likely to conceive. Michelle has made pretty clear in the past that they actively try to conceive as often as possible. I'd imagine that's something she encouraged her daughters to do as well.

[Cera]

Married June 21st and due in March (per the news report I read)...hmm.  Honestly, I hope it was a "just before the wedding" pregnancy because I find the whole Duggar courtship model a bit creepy.

 

Either way though, they are 23 and 25 and seem happy about the pregnancy so congratulations to them.  I had my oldest at 24 (though I had been married four years and finished college) and I was more than ready.

[MFG]

It was discussed on the TV show or in the one of the books that the teenage girls help Michelle chart her cycles, and have in the past been the ones to prompt her to take pregnancy tests. I find that icky, but I'd imagine they probably charted for Jill and timed the wedding for when she was most likely to conceive. Michelle has made pretty clear in the past that they actively try to conceive as often as possible. I'd imagine that's something she encouraged her daughters to do as well.

I find the statement that her sisters were repeatedly asking if she was pregnant and then urging a pregnancy test on her incredibly intrusive. Aside from Jill's desire for pregnancy, I think the answer to that should have been, " Mind your own business."

[Chris in VA]

Th difference is no one made your grief a ratings game which is exactly what TLC will do. You also are not ATI so you probably are not aware that Michelle believes her own miscarriage early in marriage was the result of sin and that ATI teaches in their health and pregnancy newsletters that miscarriages, pregnancy, and labor/delivery issues are caused by female sin and spiritual warfare in the home including inanimate objects in the home such as cabbage patch and barbie dolls or worse, failure in the woman to be submissive enough to her husband. ATi teaches that women inside the "will of god" have easy pregnancies and deliveries. So while she might have some emotional support from her husband and parents, she is going to face derision and judgment from the spiritual community they hang with. In our local ATI community, once it is known that a woman has fertility issues, has lost a baby, or had a c section, that woman is shunned for fear her spiritual problems will rub off on the other women of childbearing age. It is another mechanism for controlling women through fear.

 

I don't see Jb or Michelle ever shunning over something like that. They seem to genuinely love their kids, but to have to go through that on national tv knowing what the religious community believes is what concerns me. That's why I wish she had waited.

 

Thanks for the reminder of what ATI teaches--I hope they don't follow every bit of it. I don't know what they do believe and what they let slide, if you will. I don't know if they've chosen a faith community that has drunk all the Koolaid or just sipped it...because not every person who aligns with a faith community follows every.single.teaching. I think we can all think of examples of that.

 

It's important to me to keep hearing your perspective as a former "insider," FaithManor, because you really know the dangers that are hard to see when I can only look at the outside.

 

I'm *still* so sorry you had to go thru that. :grouphug:

 

[Desert Strawberry]

The funniest thing about this (I just now read the article) is Jim Bob saying they "were in shock".  WT..?  How could you be in shock?

D is always in shock. We have done this a few times, and we certainly know how this works. I think this is the first time he hasn't asked,"How did this happen?" Maybe he finally figured it out ;)

 

I would guess that they were surprised that it happened so fast. Even if you know it can happen, that certainly doesn't mean that it will.

[Desert Strawberry]

Why do people need a doctor to confirm a pregnancy?

I know some people don't trust a home test, even though it's the exact same test the doctor uses. Perhaps it's a holdover from when tests were more complicated and less reliable?

 

I know that we wait to announce until I see or hear a heartbeat. I want to be sure the pregnancy is viable. That might be 6weeks or much later. This time it was 18 weeks.  I might be in the minority, but I would prefer to grieve privately.

[BigMamaBird]

I know some people don't trust a home test, even though it's the exact same test the doctor uses. Perhaps it's a holdover from when tests were more complicated and less reliable?

 

I know that we wait to announce until I see or hear a heartbeat. I want to be sure the pregnancy is viable. That might be 6weeks or much later. This time it was 18 weeks.  I might be in the minority, but I would prefer to grieve privately.

 

Our old insurance wouldn't let me see an OBGYN until I had my GP confirm a positive test.  Apparently I'm too stupid to read the two pink lines.   :glare:

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

It is very hard for an adult raised in the manner promoted by ATI to even understand "choice," let alone execute it. Heaven help the first Duggar who doesn't tow the line.

Ummmm.....My brothers and sisters were all raised in ATI. My parents/family were enrolled for over 20 years (my parents are out of the program now) and we have absolutely no trouble understanding choices OR executing them. We are some of the most outspoken, opinionated people I know. All of my brothers and sisters and I make our own choices for our families. Sometimes they're the same, sometimes they're not. Often they're different from how our parents raised us but not always.

 

I also got married at 19. We kissed after we were engaged but we did the whole courtship, virgins on our wedding night thing. We didn't use birth control. We made that choice ourselves. We aren't weird, or socially awkward, or sexually stunted or anything else. (It took me a year to get pregnant btw.)

 

I don't agree with much of what Gothard/ATI teaches anymore but it still irritates me when people with no personal experience with it start saying things like this. I was raised in it. I can and do make my own choices as an adult. I'm sure Jill Duggar and her husband make their own decisions also. Please don't be insulting.

[ktgrok]

Why do people need a doctor to confirm a pregnancy?

 

Yeah, if she took that many that were negative, I'm sure she took several taht were positive. I know I always did at least two before I believed it ;)

[Catwoman]

Married June 21st and due in March (per the news report I read)...hmm.  Honestly, I hope it was a "just before the wedding" pregnancy because I find the whole Duggar courtship model a bit creepy.

Why would you hope she was already pregnant when they got married? For a young woman raised in that particular culture, getting pregnant before marriage would probably lead her to to carry a tremendous amount of guilt over it.

 

I may not agree with the whole courtship thing, but I wouldn't intentionally wish that she had violated what is essentially an important family value.

 

Hopefully, she's happy. That's all that really matters.

[Liz CA]

The guy was shocked? 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Guest]

Ummmm.....My brothers and sisters were all raised in ATI. My parents/family were enrolled for over 20 years (my parents are out of the program now) and we have absolutely no trouble understanding choices OR executing them. We are some of the most outspoken, opinionated people I know. All of my brothers and sisters and I make our own choices for our families. Sometimes they're the same, sometimes they're not. Often they're different from how our parents raised us but not always.

 

I also got married at 19. We kissed after we were engaged but we did the whole courtship, virgins on our wedding night thing. We didn't use birth control. We made that choice ourselves. We aren't weird, or socially awkward, or sexually stunted or anything else. (It took me a year to get pregnant btw.)

 

I don't agree with much of what Gothard/ATI teaches anymore but it still irritates me when people with no personal experience with it start saying things like this. I was raised in it. I can and do make my own choices as an adult. I'm sure Jill Duggar and her husband make their own decisions also. Please don't be insulting.

Well, guess what? My parents followed a lot of what Gothard "teaches" as well. So I'm not talking out of my hat. If you came out fine, that's awesome. Many folks are not so fortunate.

[maize]

I think the fact that she was taking pregnancy tests less than 30 days after having sex is weird. Even when we were trying I waited till a missed period before taking a test. It's like their plan was to get preggo asap. You'd think they'd put getting to know each other ahead of becoming parents.

 

 

Ya know, a missed period usually happens less than 30 days after conception--assuming a typical 28 day cycle, an conception happening around day 14, the missed period would happen only two weeks after conception. And if you're eager for a baby, you start trying out those pregnancy tests a few days early. They can be surprisingly sensitive these days, I've definitely had positives before my period was due. (You knew all this, right???)

 

I don't remember specifically, but I'm pretty sure I took a pregnancy test a couple of weeks after my wedding. I would have been delighted with a honeymoon baby, but it actually took us a year to conceive. My sister had a honeymoon baby and joked about being officially pregnant before she was married (since dating is done from the last menstrual period, not time of conception). Not everyone wants to start a family right away, but I don't understand the negativity directed towards those who do.

[Crimson Wife]

I know some people don't trust a home test, even though it's the exact same test the doctor uses. Perhaps it's a holdover from when tests were more complicated and less reliable?

 

The one pregnancy I had confirmed via testing at the doctor's office it was done by a blood test. So definitely not the same as the home urine test. I needed it because I was not allowed to make a prenatal visit appointment until I had a positive blood test. The other two pregnancies I just came it at 8 or 12 weeks for the first appointment.

[FaithManor]

The one pregnancy I had confirmed via testing at the doctor's office it was done by a blood test. So definitely not the same as the home urine test. I needed it because I was not allowed to make a prenatal visit appointment until I had a positive blood test. The other two pregnancies I just came it at 8 or 12 weeks for the first appointment.

I had that experience with dd and insurance.

The others were come in when I felt like it and since I hate being poked and prodded, that usual,y meant 12-16 weeks, LOL!

[gardenmom5]

Th difference is no one made your grief a ratings game which is exactly what TLC will do. You also are not ATI so you probably are not aware that Michelle believes her own miscarriage early in marriage was the result of sin and that ATI teaches in their health and pregnancy newsletters that miscarriages, pregnancy, and labor/delivery issues are caused by female sin and spiritual warfare in the home including inanimate objects in the home such as cabbage patch and barbie dolls or worse, failure in the woman to be submissive enough to her husband. ATi teaches that women inside the "will of god" have easy pregnancies and deliveries. So while she might have some emotional support from her husband and parents, she is going to face derision and judgment from the spiritual community they hang with. In our local ATI community, once it is known that a woman has fertility issues, has lost a baby, or had a c section, that woman is shunned for fear her spiritual problems will rub off on the other women of childbearing age. It is another mechanism for controlling women through fear.

 

I don't see Jb or Michelle ever shunning over something like that. They seem to genuinely love their kids, but to have to go through that on national tv knowing what the religious community believes is what concerns me. That's why I wish she had waited.

 

:svengo:

 

somebody needs to tell them to go back and reread job - because they obviously weren't paying attention. :toetap05:

 

[gardenmom5]

as for reliablility of tests . . . .

I was so surprised to be pg with dudeling - I did lots of reading up on false positives.  they are unusual.  false negatives are downright common, false positives . . not so much.  (recent miscarriage, ovarian cyst, etc.)

[AimeeM]

I guess, being Catholic, having children shortly after marriage, and not utilizing birth control to counter that possibilty, simply doesn't register on my radar of "weird", however much I may not understand the Duggar's particular faith and/or beliefs.

 

That the young man was shocked doesn't suprise me, either, lol. My husband is older thand I am by 15 years, certainly not sheltered in any way... but that positive pregnancy test, only a couple months after our wedding, seemed to have shocked him a bit :P

[momacacia]

What I would dread?

 

Having my delivery nationally televised. <eye roll>

[maize]

Married June 21st and due in March (per the news report I read)...hmm.  Honestly, I hope it was a "just before the wedding" pregnancy because I find the whole Duggar courtship model a bit creepy.

 

Either way though, they are 23 and 25 and seem happy about the pregnancy so congratulations to them.  I had my oldest at 24 (though I had been married four years and finished college) and I was more than ready.

 

Umm, a June 21st conception date yields a due date of March 14.

[unsinkable]

What I would dread?

 

Having my delivery nationally televised. <eye roll>

Oh my gosh, yes!

 

You know who amazed me? Robyn from Sister Wives. She gave birth to an almost ten pound baby nearly silently. She whimpered a bit; it was less noise than I make when I cut my shin shaving.

[maize]

Oh my gosh, yes!

 

You know who amazed me? Robyn from Sister Wives. She gave birth to an almost ten pound baby nearly silently. She whimpered a bit; it was less noise than I make when I cut my shin shaving.

 

I'm not sure I would care who all was watching when I was actually in labor, as long as they didn't try to interfere! And yeah, don't care who here's me hollering either...just as long as that baby makes it's appearance eventually!

[Guest]

Oh my gosh, yes!

 

You know who amazed me? Robyn from Sister Wives. She gave birth to an almost ten pound baby nearly silently. She whimpered a bit; it was less noise than I make when I cut my shin shaving.

 

hAHAHAHA! Thanks for the laugh! When I had my youngest, I was unmedicated. I was very quiet for nine hours. Then, he moved down towards the light and all hell broke loose! :D first I started yeliing, "Get them! Get them!" Because there was no medical staff in the room at that moment. Then...well, I have no idea what I said or did, but a). It wasn't quiet, and b.) it wasn't dignified.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

Well, guess what? My parents followed a lot of what Gothard "teaches" as well. So I'm not talking out of my hat. If you came out fine, that's awesome. Many folks are not so fortunate.

Ok. So I shouldn't have assumed you had no personal experience with ATI. It is, however, still insulting to say that adults raised in ATI don't even know what a choice is, much less how to act on one. Your parents may have been influenced by Gothard's teachings but my family, and several of my aunts and uncles and a bunch of my cousins were actually IN the program for many years. We attended conferences, lived, worked, and took classes at training centers both in the US and oversees, taught in Children's Institutes, I was even a Family Coordinator's assistant and responsible for contacting dozens of other ATI families throughout the year. I, and my family members, know literally hundreds of former ATI students. Some are disillusioned, some have completely turned away from God which is very sad, but I can't think of a single one who doesn't know how to make or execute a choice. In fact, the vast majority have *chosen* to leave ATI as adults. But choosing to do something the same way our parents did - like Jill Duggar (and myself) not using birth control, is not a sign that we don't know how to make choices. And to insinuate otherwise is insulting.

[itsheresomewhere]

Ok. So I shouldn't have assumed you had no personal experience with ATI. It is, however, still insulting to say that adults raised in ATI don't even know what a choice is, much less how to act on one. Your parents may have been influenced by Gothard's teachings but my family, and several of my aunts and uncles and a bunch of my cousins were actually IN the program for many years. We attended conferences, lived, worked, and took classes at training centers both in the US and oversees, taught in Children's Institutes, I was even a Family Coordinator's assistant and responsible for contacting dozens of other ATI families throughout the year. I, and my family members, know literally hundreds of former ATI students. Some are disillusioned, some have completely turned away from God which is very sad, but I can't think of a single one who doesn't know how to make or execute a choice. In fact, the vast majority have *chosen* to leave ATI as adults. But choosing to do something the same way our parents did - like Jill Duggar (and myself) not using birth control, is not a sign that we don't know how to make choices. And to insinuate otherwise is insulting.

Several of us on here have experience with ATI. Your experience is different from others. I have a family member very deep into it. Her kids really don't have a choice in everyday life choices. They have been told if they leave, they are dead to them. So we are not being insulting. We have different experiences with ATI. I am glad your family left it but not all do.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

Several of us on here have experience with ATI. Your experience is different from others. I have a family member very deep into it. Her kids really don't have a choice in everyday life choices. They have been told if they leave, they are dead to them. So we are not being insulting. We have different experiences with ATI. I am glad your family left it but not all do.

I DO realize that some families take things to an awful extreme. I find it incredibly sad. But people need to know that these are actually rare cases. It isn't like that for most families. You only hear the horrible extreme stories. A few ATI kids grow up never getting to make any decisions for themselves. Most do.

 

I just get really tired of people insinuating that the grown Duggar kids only make the decisions that they do because they are brainwashed, mindless robots who are incapable of thinking for themselves. Is that what people think of me? I still agree with my parents on a lot of the things they picked up from ATI; not everything but quite a bit. Do people think that's because I'm incapable of thinking anything else?

 

I'm tired of people only hearing the bad side of ATI. It's horrible, it needs to be told, but it wasn't the norm. I guess it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks but that's the point of these sorts of threads right? To express our expert opinion on the lives and thought processes of people we've never met?

 

Sheesh...3 posts on one thread on the Chat Board. That's a personal record I think. Going back to just being primarily a reader now.

 

Congrats to Jill and Derrick! :-)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I DO realize that some families take things to an awful extreme. I find it incredibly sad. But people need to know that these are actually rare cases. It isn't like that for most families. You only hear the horrible extreme stories. A few ATI kids grow up never getting to make any decisions for themselves. Most do.

 

I just get really tired of people insinuating that the grown Duggar kids only make the decisions that they do because they are brainwashed, mindless robots who are incapable of thinking for themselves. Is that what people think of me? I still agree with my parents on a lot of the things they picked up from ATI; not everything but quite a bit. Do people think that's because I'm incapable of thinking anything else?

 

I'm tired of people only hearing the bad side of ATI. It's horrible, it needs to be told, but it wasn't the norm. I guess it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks but that's the point of these sorts of threads right? To express our expert opinion on the lives and thought processes of people we've never met?

 

Sheesh...3 posts on one thread on the Chat Board. That's a personal record I think. Going back to just being primarily a reader now.

 

Congrats to Jill and Derrick! :-)

 

This is not going to work on this board. Too many members here, and too many posters on this very thread, know all about Gothard/ATI from the inside and we're not going to accept that there is a good side to it. Too many people here are dealing with the fallout of this cult-like paradigm right this very minute.

 

I know we're all thankful for every family that regains some sense of equilibrium and normalcy post-ATI. Thankful for every child who grows up to break free of the mindset, thankful for every parent-child relationship that is able to be restored. But there never was a group, excepting actual dyed-in-the-wool cults, that was more about "the norm" than ATI and that is too well-known to be un-known at this point.