Are these expectations realistic?

[toawh]

Dh works night shift. Consequently his schedule is totally off mine and the kids. I try to impress on the kids the need to be quiet in the house while daddy is sleeping and why he needs his rest. There are okay days and bad days. Hardly ever a really good day. Dh tries to sleep until noon. We live in an apartment of 45 square meters (485 square feet) that has neither a balcony nor a garden. It seems that without fail either ds 5 will start speaking in a very loud voice or the kids will forget the no running in the house rule which results in big vibrations on our all wooden floors or ds 8 will begin singing loudly or ds 3 will do any number of noisy things. Then there are days when all these things happen and more. This morning a whole shelf's worth of books came crashing down accidentally. Once Dh wakes up he can't fall back asleep. It's been over a year now of trying to teach them to be quiet and considerate in the mornings. Are these expectations realistic? Do I need more patience and a strategy tweak or is there a practical alternative?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Is there a library near by?  A park?  With kids 8 and under I would definitely try and get them out of the house right after breakfast so that your dh can sleep.  Dh works swing shift now and sleeps until about noon because he stays up late after getting home.  

[MarinesWife]

Daddy needs ear plugs and headphones and a noise machine of some sort.

 

In my opinion, your kids actions are fine.

[albeto.]

I have a friend whose husband works in show business, so evening hours are his work hours. The entire family sleeps later and stays up later than others. The kids grew up sleeping in until 10:00ish. It's one of the perks of homeschooling - setting your own hours.

 

 

[Arcadia]

It's not realistic to expect a 3, 5 or 8 year old to be quiet unless they are night owls and wake up near noon.

 

My mum used to work night shift 9pm to 7am as a nurse. I grew up in a 74 sq meters apartment. I get to spend mornings at the nearby playground or library if I was not at school. I also have a maternal aunt who stayed in the same apartment block so I could take my noise to her home.

[Hannah]

Does your dh do nightshift only, or is it a rotating schedule?  If its nightshift only, then I agree with the others who suggest trying to shift your and the children's sleep schedules.  Invest in blackout curtains and whatever else is necessary.

I can imagine it being very stressful trying to keep the kids quiet while dad is asleep.  Their actions are normal and age-appropriate.   I'd probably go to extremes like trying to soundproof the bedroom that he's in.

[AndyJoy]

My almost-5-year old would not be capable of meeting those conditions even without siblings to feed off. I hope you can cone up with a good solution!

[bettyandbob]

I'd keep the kids up later followed by leaving the apartment each morning.

 

--nice day bike, go to park, nature studies

--our library opens at 10. I'd walk to the library with a bag of school work

--join a co op or homeschool gym class that meets one or two mornings

 

I'd get everything ready each evening, including stuff needed for alternative plans (when it's raining).

[TammyinTN]

Kids are kids...unfortunately...they're usually noisy little people.   We have a box fan that drowns out lots of noise and also having the AC on helps.    I do not have miss shift work or night shifts.  

[kewb]

Yes, I think your expectations are unrealistic.  Daddy needs industrial ear plugs and a white noise machine.  If possible, you should leave the apartment.

[DawnM]

Earplugs and white noise work to a point, but they only drown out noise to a certain decibel level.  Yelling, doors shutting, vibrating floors, etc......are still audible and would wake me up.

 

 

Either have the kids change their sleep schedule (wake up later so the home is quieter in the morning) or yes, possibly go somewhere else like the library as suggested??

 

I am sorry, that stinks. And if your dh is anything like me then ear buds don't really work at all. I'm a light sleeper and I sleep on my side. I don't want a piece of foam wedged between my ear and my pillow possibly sinking into my head lol.

 

[JFSinIL]

My nearby friend's hubby worked all hours at O'Hare and the mom just adjusted their schedule to be on his schedule, so kids got as much Daddy time as possible and everyone got enough sleep. I knew to never call before noon as they kept different hours from the rst of us. It was as if they lived in their own time zone ;-)

[bolt.]

It's not unrealistic to be teaching them these skills, and to be responsibly (and with kindness) focusing your supervision on that goal. You can expect them to try, and you can expect them to begin to get it. You can expect a general habit of morning quietness to develop -- for the most part.

 

It IS unrealistic to expect no mistakes. Small children won't be able to do this 100% -- even with your best help.

 

It's also unrealistic to blame the children when things go off the rails. You all tried your best, but children aren't 100% in charge of themselves, and parents can't anticipate everything (not can you be in 2 places at once).

 

Tips:

 

Be consistant. It will develop more easily into a habit if you do it every morning (even when it is unnessisarily).

 

Build a routine that takes until noon. Incorporate many different and intentional quiet activities with no time to simply "go play". Instead, every day have things like 20 minutes of play dough, at the table with you, then puzzle time -- whatever.

 

Maintain your focus on the children. Don't do your chores. Don't get distracted. Be with them and walk them through things.

 

Let screen time help you. If needed, get headphones for the kids and set them up to watch something each day.

 

Avoid conflict. Don't invite trouble -- if it's likely to be hard for the kids to cope with something, it belongs in the afternoon. If a child does something that needs correction follow a strategy that you: 1. Stop the situation. 2. Label the problem, in a very low key way, showing that you are not very bothered about it. 3. Move on to doing something else entirely -- the more distracting the better. 4. Later (when noise is ok) remind the child of what happened and go through some teaching around how to do better. Think if it as first noticing the issue, then teaching life skills to prevent future problems.

[Anne in CA]

Funny about the people who mentioned changing their sleep schedule because I was just remembering a home school family I went to church with a few years ago. They were a farm family, so self employed so take it from there, but their whole family slept in till 10 in the morning, then had breakfast and did chores until 1, then had a light lunch and did school for four hours, then had "tea" then practiced instruments for another two hours then had dinner at 7 before doing some more chores and staying up late for their free time.

[mrsrevmeg]

I don't think you are being unrealistic. My husband works a swing shift and so my children have grown up being quiet for Daddy. By all means if you can take them to a park or something, do. Letting them run off child energy goes a long way in the noise department. When my husband used to be on a straight night shift, we would stay up late (not necessarily as late he got home, but later than normal people with young children.) It helped if they slept later. My kiddos have always been groggy in the mornings, so getting up late helped.  I hope you can find some solution!!

[OneStepAtATime]

Kids NEED time to run, play, make noise.  Those are developmentally appropriate things to do.  They also need to learn when to be quiet, sit still, etc.  But that shouldn't be the bulk of their young lives, IMHO.  They only get to be little kids full of energy and life just the once.  They will be adults soon enough.  They need their childhood.  I agree with others, shift your schedule to be more in sync with Daddy.  And get them out of the apartment as often as possible to give them the chance to run around.  Parks, libraries, etc.  Is there a co-op you are part of that might do fun things?  And Dad needs healthy sleep anyway,really deep sleep, and constantly being waked up is not healthy sleep.  

[SKL]

I think for a 3yo, it's pretty unrealistic.  For a 5yo, maybe but things are going to happen from time to time.  For the older kids, yes, it is realistic to expect them to try to keep a quiet house until lunchtime.  You would have to give them enough quiet things to do though.

 

I would try to find something to do with them outside of the house in the morning.  Have them sleep in clothes so they don't have to get dressed, and have a quiet breakfast or eat outside.  Depending on your neighborhood and family situation, you might take a walk or drive to a park/library/rec center or sign up for some sort of class or something.

 

Perhaps your husband could look into something to block the noise from his ears.  They are his kids, too, and kids are going to make sounds when the sun is up.

[foxbridgeacademy]

DH has always been on either 2nd or 3rd shift, this is the first year, because of DD going to P.S., that we won't be on a similar schedule.  When on 2nd shift we would sleep till noon, for the short time he was on 3rd we slept till 2pm sometimes.  Now we get up at 6:30 and DH just has to deal with it, of course without DD here there's no where near as much noise.  He lost a job one time when the kids were little, because of lack of sleep and the inability to wake up and go to work, that's why we don't do 3rd shift anymore.  

[brehon]

So, if my reading comprehension skills are up to snuff, you have 3 kids 8, 5, & 3.

 

Honestly, while you can certainly work with the older two on quiet time v. normal, inside noise v. outside noise, I think it is unrealistic to expect you'll achieve a consistent quiet enough time for your dh to get the sleep he needs, especially with a 3 yo and sibs riffing off each other. At the very least you'll inevitably have an older child LOUDLY tell a younger child that he's BEING TOO LOUD AND DADDY IS TRYING TO SLEEP (or does that only happen in my house?).

 

I think that concurrent with your on-going lessons on controlling our noises when someone is tired, sick, etc, you should set your kids up for success by taking them to a park, rec center, or whatever is available in your neck of the woods. Plan library time for in the mornings then "elevenses" (a la Paddington Bear) afterward in a park or something. Let the kids run and shout til their little hearts' content. Dh gets to sleep after a hard day's work; your kids run & play (so very important!) and burn off some energy; and you get some time outside the house, too.

 

School work can be done either during nap time (if your youngers still do that [and, by the way, as a mom of 6 kids, I heartily recommend hanging on to this as long as possible. Even my teen has quiet time - it's when he does his assigned reading]) or after your dh awakes.

[Desert Strawberry]

I agree with the others. Adjust everyone's schedule, or go somewhere to let daddy sleep. A 400sqft apartment is very small and so are your children.

[Mimm]

I agree that kids need time to run around and be loud. I feel for you, that's a small space to have so many people and one of them trying to sleep. To help them sleep in later, make sure you have blackout curtains to keep their room really dark.

[Slartibartfast]

I agree with having your dh use earplugs, a fan, and other things to help reduce the noise levels a bit. I think it would be too hard to try and keep kids that young very quiet for that long of a period.

 

My dh has to go to bed very early some nights because he goes to work very early. It is easier in the evening when it is time for the kids to be winding down for the day. 

 

 

[Farrar]

Sorry, I'm with everyone else on this one.  Unrealistic.  My dh also works nights.  We had to agree ages ago that while I will try to keep them quiet, it's really his job to sleep.  Now that my boys are older, it really is much easier.  But it was impossible when they were 2 or 3 yo and even up to age 5 and 6.  Seconding the noise machine.  If he doesn't have a sleep mask or blackout curtains, those also help a lot.  And, of course, doing school at the Starbucks or the library is always an option too for you guys.

[Farrar]

I was thinking what Albeto mentioned.  Why not try to change everyone's schedule?  Have the kids go to bed much later and hopefully they get used to sleeping later.

 

We tried this to some extent and it was definitely a no go.  It works for some, but most young kids are biologically wired to be early risers.  The same way most teens are biologically wired to be late risers.  It's swimming upstream as much as trying to keep them quiet, IMO.

[Momling]

I've dealt with this for years... With little ones around, I would just try to take them out as much as possible. My bigger kids can remember to be quiet. Ear plugs and an eye mask and black out curtains help. The main culprit of noise is actually the phone, pager, and doorbell when we go out.

[tshirtyogapantmama]

My suggestion is radical... but it's worked for us when my DH has had night or evening work. We switch our routine to match his more closer. I didn't make my kids go to bed early instead we became night owls, they wouldn't stay up all night but 10:30-midnight sometime in there they would go to bed. While my DH didn't sleep until noon like yours my kids routinely were not up until 9:30 or even 10am, which helped. This did push our lunch and dinner so I added snacks as needed. But in the end it worked for us. 

[ktgrok]

That seem unrealistic. Kids are too impulsive to be consitently quiet like that. I'd plan on being out of the house all morning, or at least most of the morning. Park, library, donut shop, whatever. I'd run my errands then too, maybe hit the park, then the library, then go grocery shopping before going home. another day drop off dry cleaning, whatever. But stay out of the house. Maybe DH can get up at 11 or 11:30 in a compromise for you staying out all morning. 

[Pippen]

When I was having problems with my ears, I read that longterm use of earplugs isn't recommended for sleeping, as it actually increases noise sensitivity.

[toawh]

Avoid conflict. Don't invite trouble -- if it's likely to be hard for the kids to cope with something, it belongs in the afternoon. If a child does something that needs correction follow a strategy that you: 1. Stop the situation. 2. Label the problem, in a very low key way, showing that you are not very bothered about it. 3. Move on to doing something else entirely -- the more distracting the better. 4. Later (when noise is ok) remind the child of what happened and go through some teaching around how to do better. Think if it as first noticing the issue, then teaching life skills to prevent future problems.

I needed to hear this. :)

 

Thanks everyone who offered advice. I'm a morning person in that I like to get all our "work" out of the way so we can have fun in the afternoon. I obviously have to adjust myself to the needs of my family sanity though. Trying to keep them quiet has stressed me out daily, but I was conflicted in my decision because I want the kids to be considerate as well. I thought maybe I was taking the easy way out. Dh is very gracious about the noise. He works nightshift permanently 5 or 6 days a week depending on the schedule, yet he will wake up at 9:30 sometimes after coming home at 5 and say it's okay because he wants to spend time with the kids too. But I see him tired a lot and it stresses me out, especially knowing that it's not just for a short time but an on going career. I'm thinking to get out of the house in the mornings, and when we do stay, due to weather conditions, to try to avoid conflict and teach consideration gently as per above. Changing my kids schedules has been a losing game. They wake up with the crack of dawn. I'm actually no longer homeschooling them since we moved abroad, but there are so many vacation weeks here and no school on Wednesdays, not to mention summer vacation; so, the noisy days add up. Two school days are his days off! Any ladies out there who have husbands who work night shift, I'd love to hear more about how you've managed to fit everything into your lives together. Please!

[Farrar]

For our lives in general, I have tried not to let outside expectations of what is good practices for families affect how I see our family time.  For example, the idea that we should all sit down to supper together is just ludicrous.  There's no way that's right.  Sometimes it happens, usually it doesn't.  I don't let the outside idea that dinner together is a must for family time interfere with our reality, you know?  There are other things like that too. 

[abba12]

My husband grew up in a family where the dad worked night shift for awhile. 8 kids, and not a peep to wake him, because if he was woken there was BIG TROUBLE. It was an abusive house. My husband still has long term issues around noise and stuff from it. So, yep, you CAN make them quiet, but, trust me, you don't want to. Obviously this isn't what's happening in your home, not even close, but I still feel the idea of making them stay quiet for so long is really unfair. Absolutely they should be considerate, I expect my children to be quiet and behave if they find me napping on the couch for example. But you're talking about 5-7 hours out of their day. That's a lot.

 

I think your biggest challenge will be to break out of the 'common' routines. Generally outside time is after chores/school/structured activity time but for you it might need to be first thing in the morning. Usually reading time is after lunch, but maybe yours should be around 11am after an early snack time, with a late lunch when your husband wakes. Maybe chores should happen during naptime, naptime can be later, and bedtime can be later to allow for a later wake-up time (as a mum of 3 little kids who have always woken after 7am and often after 8am I disagree with the idea they are 'hardwired' to be up at the crack of dawn, I believe early waking is a habit instilled in babyhood by many families) Play with your preconceived ideas of when things 'should' occur and see what you can come up with.

[abba12]

For our lives in general, I have tried not to let outside expectations of what is good practices for families affect how I see our family time.  For example, the idea that we should all sit down to supper together is just ludicrous.  There's no way that's right.  Sometimes it happens, usually it doesn't.  I don't let the outside idea that dinner together is a must for family time interfere with our reality, you know?  There are other things like that too. 

 

Thank you for saying that about dinner time. My grandparents are forever on at me because we don't sit down to dinner at the table, grandad gets seriously upset about it. But my husband gets home at 3pm, and we eat a late dinner, we spend all of the time in between as a family either doing chores or having fun. Usually dinner happens around the TV, not because we are vegging out in front of the tube and ignoring the kids (ok, maybe a little bit, we're in the middle of the toddler years here), but because we often use that time to watch documentaries and thought provoking interest shows (We're currently working through all of heston blumenthals series', my eldest thinks his big feasts are pretty cool.)