One of my pet peeves... just a rant.

[Luanne]

I find it interesting when both on here and in person people complain about how horrible their children behave and yet they don't believe in disciplining their children.  They let them do whatever they want and wonder why they won't behave and can't get along with each other.  There are little to no expectations of the children and the parents wonder why they won't mind them.  You have to start when they are young and have expectations of them.  No, it is not normal for your 5 year old to scream all the way through Wal-Mart for no reason.  I am not even talking about spanking them.  I am just talking about expecting them to behave like a human being.  I understand there are children with disabilities and such and I am not referring to them.  I am referring to normal children.

 

End of rant.

[MomtoCandJ]

Amen....

[albeto.]

I hear ya, I think, but would propose an alternative if you are interested. Some kids just don't respond as expected to conventional parenting. Sometimes parents find themselves in a bit of "survival mode" with kids and the battles they do pick are just not public or something you might see. Some parents have a visceral reaction to manipulation and coercion, having been abused as children themselves. Sometimes venting about out of control children is really just that - a vent because they're mentally and emotionally exhausted. 

 

 

[Jenny in Florida]

How do you know that the parent of that screaming child "doesn't believe in disciplining?" And how do you know the child is screaming for "no reason?"

 

As with so many other things, you really can't know what's going on in that family at that particular moment.

 

I'll give you an example:

 

When my daughter was five or six, we had a situation in our extended family that put her under a tremendous amount of stress. She is an extremely bright and unusually empathetic kid, and despite our best efforts to shield her, it was a truly difficult time. For the most part, my daughter could hold it together while in the outside world. She saved the "best" of her meltdowns for after we got home, once she felt safe and secure enough to let go. But, for about a year, her behavior got more and more challenging and unpredictable. If I knew before we left the house that she was having a bad day, I would, whenever possible, choose to stay home. But sometimes, that wasn't possible. And sometimes, we'd pack up and head out while everything looked fine, only to have an issue at the absolute least convenient moment.

 

I should mention, too, that at the time we had one vehicle, which my husband took to work most days. One day a week, I would drive him to work and keep the car, meaning we needed to squeeze in all of our homeschool activities and errands and shopping on that one day. 

 

I vividly remember one day at Walmart. It was our last stop of the day. My daughter had been managing okay, and I was looking forward to being done and heading home. I've forgotten now what it was, but there was an item or two on my Walmart list that were pretty critical to pick up that day. I had gotten through the store with both kids (my daughter and my then-two-year-old son) and waited through most of the usual interminable Walmart line. I was moving items from the cart onto the check-out counter when my daughter's mood took a nosedive. Within moments, she was screaming and kicking and completely out of hand. I was trapped in the check-out lane, with people behind and in front of us and my younger child sitting in the cart. I had one hand kind of free. And I had the day's shopping, including those one or two items I really needed immediately, mostly on the conveyor belt. 

 

The clerk glared at me. An older woman in line behind me sniffed that, if one of her children behaved like that, they'd get slapped. 

 

I stood there wanting to weep.

 

I had no good options. I could leave all of my shopping, including items I needed that day, squeeze through the line and drag my screaming child and my toddler out of the store, knowing it would mean an extra trip that same evening to collect the necessary items. Or I could try and get through the remainder of the line as quickly and painlessly as possible and get us all safely to the car so we could go home and try and get on with our lives.

 

Because her issues were emotional, not behavioral, "disciplining" had pretty much no role to play. She was in counseling. We were doing our best to resolve the underlying problems. I was spending hours each day listening to her, talking with her, trying to get her through with the least possible lasting trauma.

 

But, of course, I'm sure to strangers in Walmart, she looked like an undisciplined brat crying for "no reason."

 

I chose to leave, mostly because I felt so embarrassed and upset by the reactions of the other people in line. 

 

My point, however, is that you really don't know what's happening under the surface. My daughter didn't have a disability. There was nothing about her that looked anything other than "normal." But in that season of her life, she was going through more than a kid should have to manage, and sometimes it was too much for her.

 

Having nurtured a kid through that time, I have become much more compassionate towards others. 

 

Edited to add: For the record, my daughter is now 19 and a truly wonderful person. She came home for a couple of years after graduating from college early and went to work. While living at home, she saved nearly everything she earned for 18 months and has now taken her nest egg and made the big move to NYC. After subletting for a month, she is scheduled to move into her long-term apartment in a few weeks. At 19, she is mature and talented and stable and moving into the fully adult stage of her life. She's the one most of her friends -- many of whom are much older than she is -- turn to for advice and help. So, despite her infamous Walmart meltdown and whatever the judgmental folks in the store that day thought of her and of my parenting, I guess we did something pretty okay.

 

 

[Luanne]

I've been around enough parents who complain about their children to know that quite a few of them are not disciplining their children.  You just want to make excuses for your children's behavior and want to pretend it has nothing to do with parenting.  Funny how when I was growing up there wasn't a truly obnoxious child at school until I hit 6th grade.  I don't believe that children just somehow started being obnoxious suddenly in the last few years when children used to behave.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I've been around enough parents who complain about their children to know that quite a few of them are not disciplining their children.  You just want to make excuses for your children's behavior and want to pretend it has nothing to do with parenting.  Funny how when I was growing up there wasn't a truly obnoxious child at school until I hit 6th grade.  I don't believe that children just somehow started being obnoxious suddenly in the last few years when children used to behave.

 

What an extraordinary school you must have attended, since misbehavior of schoolchildren has been a universal literary trope since ancient times and on every continent.

[*Alyssa*]

I was at Target recently with our large family.  This poor mom with one child was struggling with her son.  She was desperately trying to quiet him during an episode of his endless screaming.  All my children were very well behaved and I could see she was looking at our family with a look that clearly said she felt shame.  It was very easy for me to see she was honestly trying and I felt really awful for her.  I wanted to go give her a hug (and probably should have), but I only gave her a look of sympathy.  I would have given Jenny in Florida some sympathy, too.  The situations seem similar in that mom was at least aware of the situation and wanted to do something about it.

I think it is easy to spot the difference between the mom who is trying and the mom that just complains about how her child(ren) didn't pop out perfect without any effort on their part to train them how to be a young person.  Nothing worth having comes easy.*  Nothing.  Parenting is hard work, but kids are worth it.  :001_wub:

(*I should put that in my signature.  It seems to be my motto these days.  :laugh: )

[SarahW]

What gets me is when parents complain about their kids behavior or attitude, but the kids are just acting exactly like their parents!

 

Don't like it, don't do it.

 

 

Course, kids are great at picking up your own worst traits. But most people are self-aware enough to recognize it. It's the completely unaware ones who flabbergast me.

[kitten18]

I've been around enough parents who complain about their children to know that quite a few of them are not disciplining their children. You just want to make excuses for your children's behavior and want to pretend it has nothing to do with parenting. Funny how when I was growing up there wasn't a truly obnoxious child at school until I hit 6th grade. I don't believe that children just somehow started being obnoxious suddenly in the last few years when children used to behave.

Ah, the good ol' days. Better known as the "beat them until they comply" style of parenting.

 

No thanks.

[JuanitaL]

What an extraordinary school you must have attended, since misbehavior of schoolchildren has been a universal literary trope since ancient times and on every continent.

 

:rofl:

.

.

.

.

you crack me up!

[Slache]

I strongly agree with you. Another thing that drives me crazy is when I get numerous compliments about how wonderful my children are until the compliment giver finds out we spank, go to church, or don't send them to daycare. Suddenly we're terrible parents and should have our healthy and quite happy children taken from us, because their miserable and ill behaved child is proof that they know more about parenting than we do.

[bolt.]

Children never scream for no reason. The child always has a reason, it's just that adults sometimes want to emphasize that childish reasons for screaming mean absolutely nothing to them.

 

I've also never heard a parent complain about "horrible" behaviour: sometimes they share challenges, but they rarely express more than irritation or bewilderment.

 

However, on a whole, I agree that I know more than a few families where the children could use a lot more help from their parents than they seem to be receiving... And that I believe, on average, that the children would be somewhat happier and more pleasant if they were getting the kind of "discipline" (non-punitive) that would benefit them.

 

I also agree that I think the error is in the general theme of avoiding harsh controling parenting, but not replacing it with effective guidance.

 

(But I don't think "expectations" -- as you recommend -- would actually fulfill the discipline needs of most children. I think that's pretty much saying, 'You have to be controlling, so don't worry about being harsh sometimes.' That's not my plan for the parenting world, even if I was free to tweak and idealize the parenting if everyone around me.)

[Sisyphus]

I strongly agree with you. Another thing that drives me crazy is when I get numerous compliments about how wonderful my children are until the compliment giver finds out we spank, go to church, or don't send them to daycare. Suddenly we're terrible parents and should have our healthy and quite happy children taken from us, because their miserable and ill behaved child is proof that they know more about parenting than we do.

This, x 1000. Only we don't spank, or go to church, thats why we are "weird", that plus the whole home schooling thing. Family members compliment our kids and in the next breath lament how terribly we are messing them up. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad- the disconnect between how they "expect" our kids to be and how they actually are, but we can't ever seem to get any credit! Mine are now 16 and 13, and while there is still certainly time for some royal f ups, I don't really expect any, and we all have a great relationship and they are lovely, conscientious and just darn nice kids. Which is acknowledged...but somehow, it must be despite us!

[*Alyssa*]

I find it interesting when both on here and in person people complain about how horrible their children behave and yet they don't believe in disciplining their children.  They let them do whatever they want and wonder why they won't behave and can't get along with each other.  There are little to no expectations of the children and the parents wonder why they won't mind them.  You have to start when they are young and have expectations of them.  No, it is not normal for your 5 year old to scream all the way through Wal-Mart for no reason.  I am not even talking about spanking them.  I am just talking about expecting them to behave like a human being.  I understand there are children with disabilities and such and I am not referring to them.  I am referring to normal children.

 

End of rant.

 

I think some here are overreacting to what Luanne said.  Parents who do not believe in disciplining are who she is feeling critical of.

 

My dh works with a guy who complains that all his older teen son does is eat, play video games, and sleep.  My dh suggested having his son get a job and his co-worker said he couldn't get a job, because that would take away from football practice.  :huh:

 

When I think of parents who don't discipline, but complain about their kids behavior, that is what comes to mind.  Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[Slache]

Seriously? What kind of compliment giving kooky people are you encountering who go from one extreme to another as you say? Odd.

 

It happens all of the time. It usually stems from small talk.

 

"Your kids are so well behaved. What's your secret?"

"Thanks. I'm home with them all day so they have a lot of consistency. It does wonders."

"You have them home all day? They don't go to school/preschool/kindergarten? How will they learn to ______?"

 

That's where the trouble starts.

[Impish]

Unless you know the family inside and out, there's just no way you truly know what is going on in that family's life, the child's life.

 

Are there folks out there that make a lifestyle out of being the 'damsel in distress'? That complain about anything and everything, but completely helpless to enact change? Yup, of course.

 

But, every parent has *those* moments. Moments where they figure their kid would've been better off raised by chickens. And, venting to a trusted friend can be a stress release valve, that enables them to dust themselves off and get back into the parenting game.

 

Unless someone blatantly claims, "I don't believe in ANY discipline!" I do my best to give grace. God knows I've needed it.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Moderator
Self-promotion removed

[albeto.]

  Maybe I'm missing something?

 

 

The temptation to launch the next volley in the Great Mommy Wars?

[FiveOaksAcademy]

Ah, the good ol' days. Better known as the "beat them until they comply" style of parenting.

 

No thanks.

 

No offense, but I never read that in her post.  I read it a couple of times, looking for it.  I'm reading that according to your logic, you are saying that if any of us had a class full of well behaved friends, the reason was because they were beaten?  Is that what I'm reading?  I'm not really understanding the point there.  How would you even know that?

 

I actually do remember one very poorly behaved child when I was in 3rd grade.  He gave my teacher no end of grief.  He was the exception rather than the rule, though.  I remember it stood out.  We were all rather baffled.  

 

My youngest went through trauma this year after we moved from one home to another.  During this process, my husband had to leave town for a few weeks for work, which never happens.  I wasn't prepared for the reaction we got.  I couldn't leave a room without him.  He was scared when he was not right beside me. He screamed and cried when I would try to leave him at church.  I decided pretty quickly that I'd keep him with me more until he grasped that everything was okay.  Time went by and he's fine, but sometimes children go through those things.  They need grace when they do.  

 

Children do need discipline and structure...the grace that understands them as failing humans helps to pull it all together

[LucyStoner]

How exactly do you know why that child is screaming in WalMart or what discipline approach the parents use? Or if they are neurologically typical?

 

What, pray tell, do you mean by "normal"? Normal according to you? Are you the special arbiter of normal as it pertains to children? Can I assume that you mean neurologically typical = normal and, say, autistic = not normal?

 

My "non-normal" child looks suspiciously like my "normal" child. Can you tell the difference between these two children?

 

 

 

Adding some additional samples:

 

 

 

 

 

Please tell me exactly how it is you would know one from the other in a store, park, pool, cafe or other location children are often seen with their parents? Children with autism or other special needs are not required to wear identifying insignia.

 

Personally, I dunno know if any of us in this family are normal. Case in point:

 

[FiveOaksAcademy]

 

 

 

. Funny how when I was growing up there wasn't a truly obnoxious child at school until I hit 6th grade. I don't believe that children just somehow started being obnoxious suddenly in the last few years when children used to behave.[/quote

 

 

Maybe as a child, you just couldn't see the poor behavior? For example, I was in love with a boy named Gary in the 5th grade. All the girls were,

but he chose me. He gave me gifts, wrote me notes, walked to my classes, etc. He was brave, not scared of the mean teachers. My mom was a teacher there . Years later we laughed at how he was to the adults-- he stole all the trinkets he gave me, he skipped classes, he cursed out and screamed at the "mean" teachers, he broke lights,etc. But all the kids loved him.

I'm sure there are parents who choose not to teach proper behavior, but there's virtually no way to know all the instances we see.

That's an awesome story!!  I love it!!  I would have so seen him as the cool kid back then too.  And those are the kids I regularly pray my children won't spend time with!!  :lol:

 

Some friends of ours had a little girl who threw screaming, kicking fits.  They had to bodily carry her, one person at her feet and another at her head, to get her out of public places.  They took her to a lot of doctors trying to discover why she seemed so out of control so often.  That mom was judged to no end.  They found out that while building their home, she had crawled on the floor a lot...she did this after they had had the house sprayed for insects but while the house was still in the building process?  I don't remember all of the details. She was about 6 or 7 when they found out what the problem was.  That has always made me think more before being quick to judge.  

[unfrumpable.]

I've been around enough parents who complain about their children to know that quite a few of them are not disciplining their children.  You just want to make excuses for your children's behavior and want to pretend it has nothing to do with parenting.  Funny how when I was growing up there wasn't a truly obnoxious child at school until I hit 6th grade.  I don't believe that children just somehow started being obnoxious suddenly in the last few years when children used to behave.

 

This is the funniest thing I've read all day. Children really are their own people. They're not robots.

[unfrumpable.]

You know, I have tried all sorts of different techniques with my son. And I started when he was young. I have been all over the place including spanking, taking stuff away, threatening, talking, talking, talking, explaining, explaining explaining, example, example, example. I do not just jump all over the table with these, I do them consistently and this kid knows I have never given into a temper tantrum. However, we still have issues, He is simply his own person and doesn't care for someone being overly authoritative with him. I am the same way, so that shouldn't be a big surprise. Sure, I'd love for him to do whatever I say all the time, but he doesn't. He's not a bad kid, he's a good person. I don't complain much about his behavior. I mostly talk and talk and explain and hope that eventually it will sink in. By adulthood would be good, though before than would be nice too. Sure, he has other punishments or consequences for when he steps over the line.

 

Anyways, my whole point of this is that my mom will occasionally make comments about how my brother and I never acted like that and I just laugh and laugh. Maybe she doesn't remember or she sees the past through rose colored glasses, but I remember. My parents weren't much into the talking, but we definitely got spanked, grounded, stuff taken away, etc. Much like my own son, that never stopped me. But yeah. It's easy to look back and make general statements about the "good ol' days."

[Corraleno]

Anyways, my whole point of this is that my mom will occasionally make comments about how my brother and I never acted like that and I just laugh and laugh. Maybe she doesn't remember or she sees the past through rose colored glasses, but I remember. My parents weren't much into the talking, but we definitely got spanked, grounded, stuff taken away, etc. Much like my own son, that never stopped me. But yeah. It's easy to look back and make general statements about the "good ol' days."

 

My mother will tell people that spankings, groundings, and harsh discipline kept her kids in line, and that we never did the kinds of things that "kids today" get up to, and I just laugh. Not only did we get up to all kinds of things she never knew about, 3 of her 5 kids moved as far away as they could get from her, and only 1 of my siblings really has any relationship with her. So, yeah, her discipline methods certainly had a dramatic effect — just not the one she thinks.  ;) 

 

[Jenny in Florida]

I've been around enough parents who complain about their children to know that quite a few of them are not disciplining their children.  You just want to make excuses for your children's behavior and want to pretend it has nothing to do with parenting.  Funny how when I was growing up there wasn't a truly obnoxious child at school until I hit 6th grade.  I don't believe that children just somehow started being obnoxious suddenly in the last few years when children used to behave.

 

Oh boy, could I tell you stories about the kids I knew when I was young. And, in fact, I've read a couple of articles recently about a new study that suggests "kids these days" are actually much better behaved than my own generation was.

 

I'm not challenging your own memories or experiences, but I would venture a guess that they are pretty unusual.

 

I'd also be very curious to hear how you know that the child you witnessed screaming in Walmart today was among those undisciplined children?

[idnib]

Unless someone blatantly claims, "I don't believe in ANY discipline!" I do my best to give grace. God knows I've needed it.

 

I think the old tale is that if a child is behaving badly and the parents declare they don't believe in any discipline, you're supposed to punch them in the face and say, "Neither did my parents."  :sneaky2:

[vonfirmath]

What an extraordinary school you must have attended, since misbehavior of schoolchildren has been a universal literary trope since ancient times and on every continent.

 

Agreed. Evidently our 4th grade class was so horrible the teacher went home crying every night and decided not to teach again after that year

 

(I simply remember it with great fondness. Learned this from my parents later.)  This would be early-80s.

[QueenCat]

What an extraordinary school you must have attended, since misbehavior of schoolchildren has been a universal literary trope since ancient times and on every continent.

 

Yep, I remember those shenanigans, and I started elementary school 40+ years ago!

[MomatHWTK]

I try to remember the lessons of Daniel 4 when I am tempted to credit my own prowess as a parent for any positive benefits I see.  Or, as the saying goes, "Pride goeth before a fall." 

[MomatHWTK]

Agreed. Evidently our 4th grade class was so horrible the teacher went home crying every night and decided not to teach again after that year

 

(I simply remember it with great fondness. Learned this from my parents later.)  This would be early-80s.

 

Ok, that is really bad.    I want to laugh, but poor teacher!

[Mom-ninja.]

When I see a parent with a screaming child I feel empathy for both not disdain.

[Soror]

I strongly agree with you. Another thing that drives me crazy is when I get numerous compliments about how wonderful my children are until the compliment giver finds out we spank, go to church, or don't send them to daycare. 

I get numerous compliments about my children as well but when people find out I don't spank people think that just wretched. 

 

I don't however think I'm some sort of expert or never have bad days. There are a lot more challenges as kids get older and all kids are different, some are easy and some are hard and it has nothing to do with parenting but everything to do with their personality. 

 

When I see a parent with a crying child I generally feel sorry for both. Usually when a young child is crying it is because they are tired, hungry or upset about something. IF I did spank it certainly wouldn't be for any of those reasons. Personally, I'm glad we are finally getting to the stage where kids are recognized as human beings with their own rights and feelings and not just the property of adults. It used to be lawful for husbands to physically discipline their wives, how much the worse it should be to do the same to children that we are put in charge of protecting, teaching and guiding.

[VaKim]

I've been around enough parents who complain about their children to know that quite a few of them are not disciplining their children.  You just want to make excuses for your children's behavior and want to pretend it has nothing to do with parenting.  Funny how when I was growing up there wasn't a truly obnoxious child at school until I hit 6th grade.  I don't believe that children just somehow started being obnoxious suddenly in the last few years when children used to behave.

Yep on the school thing. I went to two different elementary schools. Paddling was allowed then. All the kids were well behaved and I don't ever remember anyone getting paddled until 7th grade, and then it was for talking in class, not obnoxious behavior of any kind. Kids had a healthy respect for adults and just didn't back talk and act up like they do now. We didn't see kids saying things like, "You can't make me! I'll tell my mom!" 

 

I see a lot of bratty kids these days. Not just crying or whatever. But kids telling their parents what to do and the parents just acting like that is perfectly normal, if they are even paying attention at all. There are more parents just ignoring the kids than anything, either chatting with friends, or texting or on the phone. Then when the kids get loud enough to disturb whatever the parent is doing, they scream at the kids and often cuss them for bothering them. Often the kids respond in like. No surprise. Sad. Maybe it is a matter of location and education, as to what kind of parenting you see.

[Cera]

I completely agree with you.  

 

I am not talking about the kids with issues that the parents are actively working on (of any kind).  I am talking about the parents who are truly too lazy to parent and then complain about the outcome they get.  

 

I try not to judge parents whose kids are losing it in public because I have been there.  I have been the one with a baby in a sling and a kicking, screaming 3 year old tucked under my arm being dragged from the bookstore for misbehavior (she refused to stop running in the store so lost the chance to pick a book).  I have dealt with it many, many times in my parenting career, I think everyone has.  But, I say try not to judge rather than don't judge because in truth I have a lot more sympathy for the parent actively working to handle the situation than the one ignoring it or throwing their own fit in response.  

 

My real issue is with the parents I know personally who I know (from regular, extended exposure to their families) are merely lazy.  Their kids are miserable because the mom can't be bothered to spend any time with them, actively work to teach them how to behave, etc.  She would rather grab a beer and lay by the pool while the kids do whatever they want all day long.  These are the same kids that are beautifully behaved with me because within a day or two they realized that no means no and there are limits in my home.  Kids don't come programmed to behave, they need to be taught what is expected and that there are consequences to uncivilized behavior.

[Slache]

I get numerous compliments about my children as well but when people find out I don't spank people think that just wretched. 

 

I don't however think I'm some sort of expert or never have bad days. There are a lot more challenges as kids get older and all kids are different, some are easy and some are hard and it has nothing to do with parenting but everything to do with their personality. 

 

When I see a parent with a crying child I generally feel sorry for both. Usually when a young child is crying it is because they are tired, hungry or upset about something. IF I did spank it certainly wouldn't be for any of those reasons. Personally, I'm glad we are finally getting to the stage where kids are recognized as human beings with their own rights and feelings and not just the property of adults. It used to be lawful for husbands to physically discipline their wives, how much the worse it should be to do the same to children that we are put in charge of protecting, teaching and guiding.

 

I read a quote once that stated "If your child is giving you a hard time, your child is having a hard time." Unfortunately that's an easy thing to forget.

 

[Hikin' Mama]

Unless you know the family inside and out, there's just no way you truly know what is going on in that family's life, the child's life.

 

Are there folks out there that make a lifestyle out of being the 'damsel in distress'? That complain about anything and everything, but completely helpless to enact change? Yup, of course.

 

But, every parent has *those* moments. Moments where they figure their kid would've been better off raised by chickens. And, venting to a trusted friend can be a stress release valve, that enables them to dust themselves off and get back into the parenting game.

 

 

Unless someone blatantly claims, "I don't believe in ANY discipline!" I do my best to give grace. God knows I've needed it.

Yes, grace is a wonderful thing. I had many assumtions, theories, and philosophies about child raising before I was a mom. After raising three, the youngest of which is almost 17, I've thrown out my assumptions, theories, and philosophies because each of my kids was so different. Each of them responded so differently to things. I don't even like to give parenting advice because I still don't think I have it figured out, although when asked I tell people what worked for me.

 

When I see a mom whose child is screaming through the store or otherwise creating chaos for his/her mom, I pray for the mom. Sometimes, if I feel it's appropriate in the situation, I try to help her. (Like the time a mom was carrying a tantruming toddler through the parking lot with two other kids by her side. Said toddler was throwing his shoes or something so I went over picked them up and helped her to her destination. She was embarrassed, but thankful.) I remember having bad days with my kids, but not because I didn't discipline. Some days just aren't good; it's part of the human condition. :)

 

I'm trying very hard at this point in my life to look for ways to encourage others, especially when they are having a struggle. We all need a little encouragement, don't we? :)

[jelbe5]

I agree with you but I wanted to point out that disabilities are not always obvious.

 

I hope that I do not offend anyone, but for many years, when my autistic son was very young, I frequently wished he had a disability which was "more obvious" that would help others "see" there was something wrong with him when he behaved badly. Many times I had to ward off well-meaning strangers who wanted to speak directly with my son when he was having a blow-out because having strangers get in his face only escalated the behavior. I avoided taking him for errands and we frequently used two cars when going to events in case one parent had to remove him. Discipline techniques which are often effective with 99% of kids often do not work or take much much longer to work with many of these children.

 

One memory of kindness I had was when my son had a meltdown in the public library. A kind librarian asked how she could help me. She opened the door as I wrestled my screaming son out the door. She pushed my infant in the stroller and escorted my then 5 year old to the car and helped get them in while I handled my son. After all these years her kindness and compassion has stuck with me in an otherwise humiliating memory.

[Moxie]

This is the funniest thing I've read all day. Children really are their own people. They're not robots.

Seriously!! I have one socially awkward child and one social butterfly--I can't take credit for either. I also have one with mild special needs. To the outside, I'm sure he looks like a beast some days and, boy, I sure can complain about him to my close friends!! I could probably keep plumbing line in my purse and threaten to literally whip him into shape when he acts up. But, I love my little monster and I know that he is how God made him. I've decided that loving him and being his soft place to land is more important to me than what the nosy old gals at Wal-Mart think of my parenting skills.

[LucyStoner]

I had this one day with my son. Right before he was diagnosed. He went absolutely apeshit when it was time to get his hair cut. He was inconsolable and we had to leave before the first snip. He was a mess. We definitely got a lot of stares. I get to the car and get him in and he's still screaming bloody murder. I sat down in the drivers seat and just burst into tears myself. I was so overwhelmed. At this point we knew something was seriously up with our son but he was still on the 6 month waiting list just to get seen for diagnosis. Suddenly a guy is by my window. He seems to want to talk to me. I brace myself for a judgey nasty remark. No, he's not there to judge me. He just wants to know if we are ok and if we need anything. He offered me a hug, which I thanked him for but declined. He said "I'm just going to sit over there for a few minutes in case you need help." That man couldn't have been a day over 22. What a kind soul. I try to choose kindness too.

 

It was the wash that did him in. So after doing his hair at home for awhile, I started taking him to salons with his hair freshly washed and still damp. He's fine. If the place insists that he has to have his hair washed there, I tell THEM we will go elsewhere rather than tell my son to get his hair washed there. Parenting is finding the right solution. No verbal remonstration, much less physical punishment, would get him to be ok with the salon wash. It's not as simple as having expectations. Oddly enough, the hands on proactive, gentle parenting necessitated by my ASD son's needs works splendidly for my NT son too.

[*Alyssa*]

The temptation to launch the next volley in the Great Mommy Wars?

In my experience, it has been "Great Mommy Wars" that sharpened my skills as a parent, so I welcome them.  The parent I was with my first child is very different from how I parent today and a lot of that comes from having my beliefs challenged through debates.

[KRG]

Why?  Just go to this person and tell them what you think.  Running errands with kiddos is hard!  Yesterday I got complimented because someone thought it was sweet my son was humming jinglebells and sitting quietly in the cart while I shopped.  Other days I'm not so lucky.  Just go to the person or persons or people you have problems with instead of spewing this rant around.  Your kids never acted up in a store when they were little?  Really??

[Jenny in Florida]

 I've decided that loving him and being his soft place to land is more important to me than what the nosy old gals at Wal-Mart think of my parenting skills.

 

What a lovely way to put that! I made similar decisions with my son over and over when he was younger. Although, of course, I didn't allow him to get away with being awful in public without consequence, I'm sure that my methods of disciplining looked inadequate to those used to a harsher approach.

 

I made the decision early on that I was raising my son to be a happy, healthy, functional adult, not an obedient child. I also decided that I valued my relationship with him -- and his with me -- more than my comfort and convenience on a given day. And, for me, those two decisions made "discipline" look a little different. It involved a lot more talking in private and a lot less punishment in public than I see in some other families. 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I had this one day with my son. Right before he was diagnosed. He went absolutely apeshit when it was time to get his hair cut. He was inconsolable and we had to leave before the first snip. He was a mess. We definitely got a lot of stares. I get to the car and get him in and he's still screaming bloody murder. I sat down in the drivers seat and just burst into tears myself. I was so overwhelmed. At this point we knew something was seriously up with our son but he was still on the 6 month waiting list just to get seen for diagnosis. Suddenly a guy is by my window. He seems to want to talk to me. I brace myself for a judgey nasty remark. No, he's not there to judge me. He just wants to know if we are ok and if we need anything. He offered me a hug, which I thanked him for but declined. He said "I'm just going to sit over there for a few minutes in case you need help." That man couldn't have been a day over 22. What a kind soul. I try to choose kindness too.

 

I wish we had encountered more people like this in my sons early years before we knew what was going on, and even after we knew.

 

What a wonderful young man.

[KRG]

 I've decided that loving him and being his soft place to land is more important to me than what the nosy old gals at Wal-Mart think of my parenting skills.

 

I like this, too!!   :001_wub:

[*Alyssa*]

I read a quote once that stated "If your child is giving you a hard time, your child is having a hard time." Unfortunately that's an easy thing to forget.

 

I agree with that even when they are screaming for not getting their way.  In my limited experience as a parent, I've found that misbehavior is really just a child's way of saying, "I need you."  I wish someone had told me that in my early parenting days.  It would have saved all of us a lot of heartache.

[Tangerine]

I thought a bit about what to say here.  Unkindness toward children and harsh treatment makes my blood boil.  Thank you, thank you, amazing mamas for turning this into stories of kindness and gentleness.  Of both strangers and parents.  I look forward to a world with your children when I am old and enfeebled.

[OH_Homeschooler]

No, it is not normal for your 5 year old to scream all the way through Wal-Mart for no reason.  I am not even talking about spanking them.  I am just talking about expecting them to behave like a human being.  I understand there are children with disabilities and such and I am not referring to them.  I am referring to normal children.

 

 

Seriously, Luanne? You have some sort of psychic ability allowing you to tell just by looking whether a child is "normal" or not. You can't tell by looking all the time. Best to reserve judgment. 

 

And I know you claim this isn't about spanking, but sometimes I think pro-spankers SAY all kinds of discipline are A-OK but don't really believe it's discipline unless it's physical. 

 

Funny side story: When one of our children gets a bit of an attitude, an older relative suggests we spank him, because that's what another person in our family does with her children when they have an attitude. Yet...this is an ongoing thing for them. It's not like they spanked their children once and that was the end of it. So why would spanking our child be expected to elicit constant angel behavior? I don't get it. But since we don't spank, that means we obviously don't discipline at all. 

[OH_Homeschooler]

I think some here are overreacting to what Luanne said.  Parents who do not believe in disciplining are who she is feeling critical of.

 

My dh works with a guy who complains that all his older teen son does is eat, play video games, and sleep.  My dh suggested having his son get a job and his co-worker said he couldn't get a job, because that would take away from football practice.  :huh:

 

When I think of parents who don't discipline, but complain about their kids behavior, that is what comes to mind.  Maybe I'm missing something?

 

 

I think not taking on a job due to other commitments isn't necessarily a bad thing. I know in high school, I tried to maintain a job while being in band. In the summer and fall, we were required to be at marching band practice every day (which I hated by the way, but to be in band at all meant to participate in marching band during football season) and so when school was in session, we pretty much had time for school, practice, and homework. Although I took extra shifts when others were sick, etc. all summer long, no one was willing to take on some of my shifts during the school year so I had to quit. And oh yeah, I earned a lot of scholarships thanks to music and even graduated from college a semester early as a result of taking extra music credits as a requirement of the scholarships. 

 

And what's to say that this kid wouldn't behave the same way after coming home from work? Actually sounds like pretty typical teen behavior to me.

[Pronghorn]

I think this thread is hard because too many of us identify with the "bad" parents. My child was a screamer, and once she started there was no right thing you could do to turn her around. She was not in a rational state! I imagine that some people who saw me restraining her in my arms and telling her "You're just having a meltdown; you'll feel better in a little while" thought I was nuts. However, she grew into a wonderfully behaved, wonderfully empathetic girl. That might not happened if I had turned punitive on her.

 

I find it interesting that someone (OP maybe) said kids used to behave until at least 6th grade. To me, that is backwards of what it should be. Small children should naturally not behave particularly well. However, once they reach 6th grade and above, it is likely that they are choosing to misbehave for some reason. Perhaps they were controlled by fear when little, and now feel empowered to show their true colors? They would be better off misbehaving when young, learning how to do better, and behaving better from sixth grade on, once they have enough self-control to behave well.

 

I also think that truly bad parents are seldom being bad on purpose. Many were parented poorly themselves and have insufficient insight to do things differently than were done for them. So of course they complain as they continue to fail. Just be glad you have a better understanding of how to parent. If you were born into a different family, perhaps YOU would be the "lazy" parent. This is not to say that none of us have overcome the bad parenting we received. But, somewhere along the line, we got some insight so that we could change. That is something to be thankful for!

[Lavandula]

I find it interesting that someone (OP maybe) said kids used to behave until at least 6th grade. To me, that is backwards of what it should be. Small children should naturally not behave particularly well. However, once they reach 6th grade and above, it is likely that they are choosing to misbehave for some reason. Perhaps they were controlled by fear when little, and now feel empowered to show their true colors? They would be better off misbehaving when young, learning how to do better, and behaving better from sixth grade on, once they have enough self-control to behave well.

A very good point. When I see kids having meltdowns in public it's sometimes a bit annoying, but there are so many situations that the parent and child could be dealing with. I'd be far more concerned about a middle schooler acting out like that.

[Spryte]

I had this one day with my son. Right before he was diagnosed. He went absolutely apeshit when it was time to get his hair cut. He was inconsolable and we had to leave before the first snip. He was a mess. We definitely got a lot of stares. I get to the car and get him in and he's still screaming bloody murder. I sat down in the drivers seat and just burst into tears myself. I was so overwhelmed. At this point we knew something was seriously up with our son but he was still on the 6 month waiting list just to get seen for diagnosis. Suddenly a guy is by my window. He seems to want to talk to me. I brace myself for a judgey nasty remark. No, he's not there to judge me. He just wants to know if we are ok and if we need anything. He offered me a hug, which I thanked him for but declined. He said "I'm just going to sit over there for a few minutes in case you need help." That man couldn't have been a day over 22. What a kind soul. I try to choose kindness too.

 

It was the wash that did him in. So after doing his hair at home for awhile, I started taking him to salons with his hair freshly washed and still damp. He's fine. If the place insists that he has to have his hair washed there, I tell THEM we will go elsewhere rather than tell my son to get his hair washed there. Parenting is finding the right solution. No verbal remonstration, much less physical punishment, would get him to be ok with the salon wash. It's not as simple as having expectations. Oddly enough, the hands on proactive, gentle parenting necessitated by my ASD son's needs works splendidly for my NT son too.

 

I wanted to like this ten thousand times, but alas we are limited to one like per post.  This made me tear up, Katie.  Thanks for sharing this story.  The world will be a better place when more people choose kindness and compassion over judgment, like that man.  

 

My son has had his moments in public.  I'm sure there have been some judgmental people who've seen us out and about.  How can they know what we're doing to work on it, what special needs are at play? How can they know that what we are doing (or aren't doing, in their eyes) isn't exactly what has been discussed with a doctor or therapist?  They can't.  They don't.  My son's issues are invisible, and certainly no one in Wal Mart would know what they are by looking at him.  

 

Once, I read somewhere that the most judgmental people are also the loneliest.  I'm not sure if it's true, but often I've found that when I think about it... the people in my life who are judgmental about DS's issues fit this.  They are the people who are lonely.  The ones who are not lonely, not overtly alone or feeling alone, are much more forgiving of others' - and not just my DS.  It helps me to think more kindly of the people who post these sorts of "rants" and "vents" about children and parents who are obviously struggling.