Santa Barbara shooting

[Laurie]

Last night I heard another report about the killings in Santa Barbara, but it was the first time I had heard that the killer had Asperger Syndrome.  The man reading the news did add that Asperger syndrome isn't a violent disorder.   This made me feel an immediate empathy with Muslims... after 9/11 Islam became the religion of peace in the media, and now I guess Asperger Syndrome is going to be the disorder of peace.

 

As the mother of two on the spectrum (including one with AS) I am so dumbfounded and angry.   I really would like  to know if this killer's father or mother ever took him target shooting, too, just like the mother of the Sandy Hook shootings did.  If a parent has witnessed anything like angry outbursts/"meltdowns" over the years, does it ever cross his/her mind that it might literally be a grave mistake to make the kid a good marksman???? 

I also wonder how many times this most recent killer watched his father's movie, the one about youth killing youth as sport.   It still to this day makes me wonder who thinks of these things and decides it would be good entertainment for the rest of us.   Maybe it is just a horrible cooincidence that the Sandy Hook killer lived in the same town as the celebrated author of The Hunger Games, and now this Santa Barbara killer turns out to be the son of someone who worked on the movie.  

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/suspect-uc-santa-barbara-shooting-identified-family/story?id=23853918

 

 

 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

something you should be asking - is why the police (who are now being investigated) had three dealings with him for his behavior over the past year - but let him go each time, with NO follow-up?   after all, this is S. Cal, and Hollywood reigns.  and where one store is reported to have had a sign stating "your children are part of your image".

 

(I also have an aspie).

[sewingmama]

Honestly... the only association I make between Aspergers and violence is that the kid was probably teased and bullied enough that he resorted to payback. It even mentions that in the article..that no one would date him and he was lonely.

 

Personally I don't think it has anything to do with whether the person had lessons at shooting or whatever. The fact is...guns are accessible in America so that is often the weapon of choice. In Australia that is far less likely to happen because the average disgruntled kid doesn't have the access. However whether the kid uses a knife or a gun or a stick ...the underlying issue is still the same.

 

People need to stop bullying and ostracising those who are different from themselves and those with significant mental illness need better access to medical help and facilities. I know in Australia mental health programs are so full and overworked that people who need help are often told they "are not bad enough " to be admitted because there is only room for those who are an obvious threat...not for those who "might be" a threat. I also know that you can't get admitted unless you admit yourself. So if a person is incapable or won't do this then what can their families do?

 

I don't know much about Aspergers but if they have diminished capacity for empathy I can see where violent retaliation might happen.

 

I was bullied in high school and I still fantasise about catching those people and giving them a good kick up the butt.

[Laurie]

something you should be asking - is why the police (who are now being investigated) had three dealings with him for his behavior over the past year - but let him go each time, with NO follow-up?   after all, this is S. Cal, and Hollywood reigns.  and where one store is reported to have had a sign stating "your children are part of your image".

 

(I also have an aspie).

 

 You're right...there are many questions.  But I don't understand how the police could have done anything more than check on his welfare when asked to do so.   They can't arrest someone just because they think someone might do something, can they?  

 

[Laurie]

 

 

People need to stop bullying and ostracising those who are different from themselves and those with significant mental illness need better access to medical help and facilities. I know in Australia mental health programs are so full and overworked that people who need help are often told they "are not bad enough " to be admitted because there is only room for those who are an obvious threat...not for those who "might be" a threat. I also know that you can't get admitted unless you admit yourself. So if a person is incapable or won't do this then what can their families do?

 

I don't know much about Aspergers but if they have diminished capacity for empathy I can see where violent retaliation might happen.

 

 

I also worry about how many people are prescribed psychiatric drugs and then don't receive enough follow-up care/monitoring.   I don't know what it's like in Australia, but it seems impossible to watch tv these days without listening to an assortment of prescription drug commercials!  The anti-depressant commercials are scary because they list the side effects which could include homicidal behavior.   

 

 

[Butter]

Are you upset that they mentioned he has Asperger's?  That's typical for the news.  If there is something - anything - that can set someone who does something awful apart from the vast majority of the population, they will report it.  A few years ago a 20-something shot some people in a mall I think it was.  They reported he had been homeschooled (never mind it had been at least something like 6 years since he was homeschooled due to his age).  Sometimes the news will report the person was a Mormon or a Muslim or a stamp collector or whatever even if it doesn't actually have anything to do with the crime itself.  It's human nature to think "Well, that person wasn't like me because of x so I would never do y" even if x and y are completely unrelated in the first place.

[Danestress]

It always bothers my husband when the news reports that "former Marine" committed a crime. 

 

I don't really see it as an issue, though.  When some one commits a serious crime, people want to know who the killer was.  We end up knowing, for example, that he was unemployed, went to a certain high school, worked in a particular field, was married, or not, had kids or not, had a history or mental illness, or not, etc.

 

I don't think the implication is that the fact he went to that high school, was married or grew up in Atlanta is reported because it's considered a factor that made him more likely to commit a crime.  I think it is (mostly) reported because the public wants a picture of who that person was.  Some of us will think some of those factors are relevant, but there is often balanced reporting about why it's not relevant. 

 

To the extent I am interested in reading the facts, I don't think reporters should hold truthful information back because it might bother some groups.  Too bad if it bothers my DH that the perpetrator was a former Marine.  Directly relevant or not, why should a reporter withhold that information?  Or why not report about the recent divorce, the name of his high school, etc?  Those are basic facts about someone that people want.  Having said that, it does bother me that there is SO much reporting on sensational stories, that perpetrators get so much airtime, that we run coverage 24 hours a day, and that reporters and "experts" speculate on the facts.    I don't necessarily feel interested in all the details, but I also don't think that those details should be covered up.

 

I know people often say there is too much coverage about the perpetrator, and the people getting the attention should be the victims.  But in  way, I feel like the victims and their families should be entitled to a lot more privacy than the killer.  I actually do think that victims families should be able to expect a little more reserve in not having their lives reviewed too fully.  If I were killed, I would not want the names of my children and where I lived to be in the papers, and I would not want my class mates or coworkers called for comment.  I don't really expect the press to be as circumspect with the killer, even though his family members and friends my be just as innocent as mine. 

[LibraryLover]

To be fair, his parents called the police a couple of times because they were worried.

[Laurie]

Are you upset that they mentioned he has Asperger's?  That's typical for the news.  If there is something - anything - that can set someone who does something awful apart from the vast majority of the population, they will report it.  

 

I'm upset that this is part of the killer's medical history , but not that the media reported it.  

 

Sometimes is seems like "awareness" about autism is a good thing.  But other times, it's a label that you might want to avoid like the plague. 

 

I heard a forensic psychologist on the news and he said that it isn't good to talk about perpetrators of crimes like this because they want to be famous.  Instead, we should talk about how to protect ourselves.  It seems to me that this is only a recipe for more rejection, and even bullying, if people think they need to distance themselves from someone like this because he might be dangerous and want to kill them...which in this case, he did.   

 

[Dana]

The only way shootings like this will stop is if we stop having guns so readily available.

But we did nothing after Sandy Hook and nothing will be done now.

 

UCSB alumni here.

This hurts.

[Farrar]

I had not heard that yet.  I understand what you're saying.  Asperger's does not cause people to be violent at all but now some people may assume that it does.

 

Everything I've read about this - especially about the parents' and how they tried to get him help - is just heart-breaking. 

[Laurie]

To be fair, his parents called the police a couple of times because they were worried.

 

I understand that they were concerned about his youtube videos.  I can only speak for myself, but as a mom I guarantee that I would do more than pick up a phone and pass the buck to the police department if my own kid (no matter how old) is doing something like that.   

 

[eternalsummer]

He stabbed 3 people to death before he shot anyone.  

[Mrs Mungo]

I think this is really tough. If people with plenty of money and social clout cannot get help for their son whom they know is seriously disturbed, then what can your average person do?

 

I don't really think The Hunger Games can be blamed for anything like this. The books are clearly an analogy to ancient Rome, totalitarian regimes and reasons the people can and will finally rebel. The books aren't in favor of killing for sport, quite the opposite.

 

I *do* think that a certain amount of accepted violence against women in society is a major factor. MANY mass shooters are angry with women and target women.

 

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/Teaching%20Her%20a%20Lesson.pdf

 

http://splcenter.org/blog/2014/05/24/shooting-suspect-elliot-rodgers-misogynistic-posts-point-to-motive/#.U4Eic8s8fQ0.twitter

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/24/1301671/-Elliot-Roger-Gunman-in-California-Mass-Shooting-was-influenced-by-the-Men-s-Rights-Movement#

 

An interesting statistic from this report is that there are significantly fewer women killed by guns in states that require background checks:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/02/mass_shootings_2009-13_-_jan_29_12pm1.pdf

 

There can be a happy medium between no gun restrictions and taking everyone's guns away. Gallup found that 83 percent of Americans favored a law requiring background checks for all gun purchases. The Washington Post/ABC poll found that 86 percent of Americans support a law requiring background checks on people buying guns at gun shows or online.

[Mrs Mungo]

I understand that they were concerned about his youtube videos.  I can only speak for myself, but as a mom I guarantee that I would do more than pick up a phone and pass the buck to the police department if my own kid (no matter how old) is doing something like that.

From one of the articles:

"After watching the video, Rodger’s mother contacted Elliot’s father, The Hunger Games assistant director Peter Rodger, and called 911. The two began driving from Los Angeles to the Santa Barbara area and heard about the shooting along the way."

 

They didn't pass the buck. They weren't in the immediate area. They called 911 *and* started driving. What else do you think they should have done?

[eternalsummer]

In this case, though, he passed a background check to purchase the guns he used.  

[Mrs Mungo]

In this case, though, he passed a background check to purchase the guns he used.

Most Americans are in favor of clarifying (and tightening) the language surrounding the mental health piece of the check. Even with current regulations, IF his parents or the authorities had managed to stop him and had him involuntarily committed by a judge, then he wouldn't have been able to pass one in the future.

 

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/08/3135021/federal-mental-health-background-checks-gun-violence/

 

I'm not anti-gun in the least. I'm from Oklahoma, my dh is from Texas. Our whole adult lives have been spent in the military community. But, I do think some gun control proposals are entirely reasonable. More than half of mass shooters have used assault weapons and/or high capacity clips, for example. I know a LOT of target shooters and an overwhelming majority use standard clips.

[eternalsummer]

Oh, I think background checks make a lot of sense.  I'm more ambivalent about high-capacity clips; I can see the (legitimate) use/need for them in some situations.

 

I'm just saying that in this case, a background check was performed, and didn't help.  Heck, the police were even directly informed that something weird was going on with the kid and that he might be a danger!

 

I think preventing things like this is going to be really difficult if you're just dealing with the very end of the situation (keeping mentally ill people from getting guns/knives (since he killed 3 with a knife, right?), identifying the mentally ill who are genuinely dangerous, etc.).  It makes a lot more sense, though perhaps it is just as impossible, to consider what is causing all of this in the first place.

 

It's kind of like trying to address inner-city crime by locking up perpetrators and banning handguns in Chicago; the causes of that violence are a lot more deep rooted than surface measures like that can functionally address.

[Laurie]

From one of the articles:

"After watching the video, Rodger’s mother contacted Elliot’s father, The Hunger Games assistant director Peter Rodger, and called 911. The two began driving from Los Angeles to the Santa Barbara area and heard about the shooting along the way."

 

They didn't pass the buck. They weren't in the immediate area. They called 911 *and* started driving. What else do you think they should have done?

 

My understanding is that they saw disturbing videos about suicide and killing people a few weeks ago.  I don't think problems like this go away in a few weeks just because someone is in therapy.   And roommates really can't take the place of a supportive (and vigilant) family.    

 

[mathnerd]

The reason for the massacre is screwed up parenting - if my child had mental illness and was seeing a couple of therapists and threatened to kill many people (for several weeks before the actual killing), I would go to him and bring him home and take care of him until he was well. I will not call the police to check on his welfare (most parents I know would do the same - bring the kid home - without a second thought). People who have better things to do when their kids are so mentally ill and helpless should not be procreating (sorry, I have family that are in the campus at UCSB right now and I was really scared for a while when this happened). The stabbed roommates are local to me and the news has been talking about them all day long :(

 

PS: All the killer's neighbors are saying that he did not like to socialize even when they tried to befriend him.

[Kathryn]

This guy was an adult. How exactly are his parents supposed to force him to do anything?

[Joker]

The reason for the massacre is screwed up parenting - if my child had mental illness and was seeing a couple of therapists and threatened to kill many people (for several weeks before the actual killing), I would go to him and bring him home and take care of him until he was well. I will not call the police to check on his welfare (most parents I know would do the same - bring the kid home - without a second thought). People who have better things to do when their kids are so mentally ill and helpless should not be procreating (sorry, I have family that are in the campus at UCSB right now and I was really scared for a while when this happened). The stabbed roommates are local to me and the news has been talking about them all day long :(

 

PS: All the killer's neighbors are saying that he did not like to socialize even when they tried to befriend him.

 

He was a 22 year old adult. How were they supposed to force him into their home? How do know they didn't try?

[Joshin]

The reason for the massacre is screwed up parenting - if my child had mental illness and was seeing a couple of therapists and threatened to kill many people (for several weeks before the actual killing), I would go to him and bring him home and take care of him until he was well. I will not call the police to check on his welfare (most parents I know would do the same - bring the kid home - without a second thought).

 

I'm saying this gently, but you can not force an adult child to come home for treatment without breaking the law yourself, unless you can prove they are mentally incapable of making any decisions. I don't know the details of what the parents went through or what avenues they explored. It's just really easy for those of us on the outside to think "we could have done better," when actually, maybe we couldn't have.

[poppy]

He stabbed 3 people than shot 18 people. Then himself. The reason for the massacre is the weapon that lets a demented person quickly and effectively and easily commit mass murder.

[mommymilkies]

An interesting article. http://www.policymic.com/articles/89905/what-elliot-rodger-said-about-women-reveals-why-we-need-to-stamp-out-misogyny

 

Disclaimer: This was shared on FB.  I don't know the website's affiliations, so I'm only specifying the article linked.

[mathnerd]

They didn't pass the buck. They weren't in the immediate area. They called 911 *and* started driving. What else do you think they should have done?

He posted videos of massacaring people/girls in April 2014 - at which time the parents called cops for a check on his welfare.

This time around (in May 2014), they drove down to SB. 

 

So, if they did the needful in April, other people's kids would not have died, maybe?

[mathnerd]

I'm saying this gently, but you can not force an adult child to come home for treatment without breaking the law yourself, unless you can prove they are mentally incapable of making any decisions. I don't know the details of what the parents went through or what avenues they explored. It's just really easy for those of us on the outside to think "we could have done better," when actually, maybe we couldn't have.

 

I can not agree with you - if a kid who is 22 years old posted a youtube video about massacaring girls in April 2014 (this happened in this case) and then he was seeing 2 therapists for these issues, I as a parent would ask the therapists to give me the required paperwork to decalre my child incapable of decision making.

[Joker]

I can not agree with you - if a kid who is 22 years old posted a youtube video about massacaring girls in April 2014 (this happened in this case) and then he was seeing 2 therapists for these issues, I as a parent would ask the therapists to give me the required paperwork to decalre my child incapable of decision making.

 

How do you know the parents didn't try this? A parent cannot force a therapist to do their bidding in regards to an adult. You, and the rest of us, have no idea what these parents tried to do. None of us know what the therapists thought he was capable of and none of us know what the parents might have been going through. Blaming the parents at this point is ridiculous.

 

ETA: You refer to him as a kid. He was 22, an adult. When I was his age, I had been married for one year and about to become a mother.

[livetoread]

I can not agree with you - if a kid who is 22 years old posted a youtube video about massacaring girls in April 2014 (this happened in this case) and then he was seeing 2 therapists for these issues, I as a parent would ask the therapists to give me the required paperwork to decalre my child incapable of decision making.

You almost certainly wouldn't have gotten it based on the info we know so far. Being declared incompetent is a very difficult process. Adults retain their right to self-governance in all but the worst situations. The state can step in and involuntarily commit someone for a limited amount of time, but to take away his competency and turn it over to a parent is huge and would not have happened here. He was living independently and functioning.

 

It would be awful to watch your young adult disintegrate and know that the little you can do might not be enough. I can't imagine.

[Danestress]

I as a parent would ask the therapists to give me the required paperwork to decalre my child incapable of decision making.

And the fact you think that is how it works makes me think you haven't actually been through this process with a mentally ill adult.

[Truscifi]

And the fact you think that is how it work makes me think you haven't actually been through this process with a mentally ill adult.

 

:iagree:  I know you mean well, but you don't seem to know much about the process and what rights parents have (and don't have) over their adult children.

[Mrs Mungo]

The state can step in and involuntarily commit someone for a limited amount of time, but to take away his competency and turn it over to a parent is huge and would not have happened here.

I agree and think it is worth pointing out that people usually must be a direct threat to themselves or others-they must have told about suicide ideations or something like that before they will even be temporarily committed. Watching violent movies or video games or posting violent videos isn't enough.

[KungFuPanda]

I have a hard time blaming the parents. Nothing like this happened on their watch. You can complete a 4-year military enlistment by age 22! This isn't some college freshman. Also, he was statistically more effective with a knife than a gun. It seems to me that he was mentally ill, but had done nothing drastic enough that his therapists could legally lock him up.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have a hard time blaming the parents. Nothing like this happened on their watch. You can complete a 4-year military enlistment by age 22! This isn't some college freshman. Also, he was statistically more effective with a knife than a gun. It seems to me that he was mentally ill, but had done nothing drastic enough that his therapists could legally lock him up.

The police say that they didn't see the videos. If the therapist was worried enough to call mom, then mom is worried enough to call the police, why did the police just sort of blow it off without a follow up? It seems like enough to warrant an investigation and the investigation (especially if they had searched his place) probably would have been enough for at least a temporary commitment, which would prevent him from buying guns.

[mathnerd]

And the fact you think that is how it work makes me think you haven't actually been through this process with a mentally ill adult.

You are actually right about this - all I have seen is the Brittney Spears story -  her parents stepped in and took over her affairs because she was hurting herself and her interests due to her mental illness - I have no personal experience with mentally ill adults.

[Word Nerd]

The only way shootings like this will stop is if we stop having guns so readily available.

But we did nothing after Sandy Hook and nothing will be done now.

 

UCSB alumni here.

This hurts.

Half of the people he murdered were stabbed. He also hit four people with his car.

[Mrs Mungo]

My understanding with Britney Spears is that she had displayed enough erratic behavior that she was in danger of completely losing custody of her kids. My understanding was that her conservatorship was part of a negotiated deal that she agreed to. That is completely different from an adult who is totally non-compliant.

[Crimson Wife]

I have to say that I've heard similar (though thankfully milder and totally non-violent) griping about women from a guy who was the first person I knew to be diagnosed with Asperger's back in the '90's. He goes on and on about how he is "Mr. Nice Guy" but all the girls he wants put him in "the friend zone" and sleep with jerks. All the while I know for a FACT that his mom (who is a family friend) keeps trying to set him up with nice girls but he's not interested because they are average-looking and he thinks he deserves a hottie.

 

Now I want to be clear that I have never heard him say anything that could possibly be construed as a threat towards anyone. But I have to say when I heard about the UCSB shooter's social media rants, it did cross my mind that they were like a creepy psycho version of the Aspie I know.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have to say that I've heard similar (though thankfully milder and totally non-violent) griping about women from a guy who was the first person I knew to be diagnosed with Asperger's back in the '90's. He goes on and on about how he is "Mr. Nice Guy" but all the girls he wants put him in "the friend zone" and sleep with jerks. All the while I know for a FACT that his mom (who is a family friend) keeps trying to set him up with nice girls but he's not interested because they are average-looking and he thinks he deserves a hottie.

 

I think there are a LOT of guys like this, and I am not sure it is all to do with a diagnosis. Hollywood only reinforces this by putting chubby, average, not good looking, sort of dumb, even unsuccessful guys in pairs with drop-dead gorgeous, intelligent women.

[albeto.]

I have to say that I've heard similar (though thankfully milder and totally non-violent) griping about women from a guy who was the first person I knew to be diagnosed with Asperger's back in the '90's. He goes on and on about how he is "Mr. Nice Guy" but all the girls he wants put him in "the friend zone" and sleep with jerks. All the while I know for a FACT that his mom (who is a family friend) keeps trying to set him up with nice girls but he's not interested because they are average-looking and he thinks he deserves a hottie.

 

Now I want to be clear that I have never heard him say anything that could possibly be construed as a threat towards anyone. But I have to say when I heard about the UCSB shooter's social media rants, it did cross my mind that they were like a creepy psycho version of the Aspie I know.

 

I have to say that I've heard similar (though thankfully milder and totally non-violent) griping about women from a guy who was the first person I knew to be a Christian back in the '90's. He goes on and on about how he is "Mr. Nice Guy" but all the girls he wants put him in "the friend zone" and sleep with jerks. All the while I know for a FACT that his mom (who is a family friend) keeps trying to set him up with nice girls but he's not interested because they are average-looking and he thinks he deserves a hottie.

 

Now I want to be clear that I have never heard him say anything that could possibly be construed as a threat towards anyone. But I have to say when I heard about the UCSB shooter's social media rants, it did cross my mind that they were like a creepy psycho version of the Christer I know.

 

 

Still sound like a benign, harmless comment?

 

I find your post offensive and inciteful of bigotry and cruelty. If I were to connect an absent-minded, ignorant, self-important correlation between Christians and sociopathy, I wonder how well that would be received. 

[maize]

 

Still sound like a benign, harmless comment?

 

I find your post offensive and inciteful of bigotry and cruelty. If I were to connect an absent-minded, ignorant, self-important correlation between Christians and psychopathy, I wonder how well that would be received.

That was uncalled for and rude. The poster you parodied has a child with autism, I don't think her comments were at all intended in the sense you took them in.

[albeto.]

That was uncalled for and rude. The poster you parodied has a child with autism, I don't think her comments were at all intended in the sense you took them in.

 

Correlating autism and sociopathic behavior based on one anecdotal connection is uncalled for and rude, and this kind of careless, thoughtless message validates a dangerous "us" v. "them" mentality that puts "them" at undue risk. She's working against her own child's self interests if she sincerely thinks a comment like this is benign.

[Jasperstone]

I think there are a LOT of guys like this, and I am not sure it is all to do with a diagnosis. Hollywood only reinforces this by putting chubb, average, not good looking, sort of dumb, even unsuccessful guys in pairs with drop-dead gorgeous, intelligent women.

So true! We know a guy who makes Woody Allan look like a stud. o_O And the reason he is 56 has never had a date is that he would only wants to date supermodel look-a-likes. Yep, he would rather stay single than date a Plain Jane.

 

No offence to all the Woodies, and Janes out there. ;-)

[Vera]

The only way shootings like this will stop is if we stop having guns so readily available.

But we did nothing after Sandy Hook and nothing will be done now.

I wish I could like this a million times. If 20 dead kids isn't enough to get people to change, nothing will.

[Cammie]

As long as people in this country allow their policies to be dictated by the NRA, a group that has gone from advocating for reasonable restrictions on guns and being in favor of licensing and regulation  to the group we have now, nothing will change.  As long as there are powerful interests in keeping American scared and keeping the guns and ammo flowing, nothing will change.  As long as there are people who think that they have a right to own as many of whatever type of gun their heart desires and think that right is enshrined in the Constitution, nothing will change.  As long as those of us who are scared for our children do nothing, nothing will change.

[flyingiguana]

The police say that they didn't see the videos. If the therapist was worried enough to call mom, then mom is worried enough to call the police, why did the police just sort of blow it off without a follow up? It seems like enough to warrant an investigation and the investigation (especially if they had searched his place) probably would have been enough for at least a temporary commitment, which would prevent him from buying guns.

I'm guessing the police didn't search at the time they visited his house because they didn't have a warrant, didn't have reason enough to get a warrant (judges will want to see good reasons), and because the guy didn't give them verbal permission to search. (We have this little constitutional problem of unreasonable search and seizure that they have to abide by)

 

The videos came out later. The therapist saw the video, called the mother, who then (with the father) called the Isla Vista police and raced up there. They heard about the shootings in the car on the way. Even though the police were notified, they wouldn't have had time to find the guy and restrain him.

 

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-frantic-parents-isla-vista-shootings-20140525-story.html

 

Unfortunately, I think there are times when very little could have been done. Better gun control laws might have made it so he had fewer guns, but given the number of shots he actually fired, I'm not convinced that this guy would have been slowed down much. (Also, the first deaths were stabbings)

 

I'm certainly in favor of better gun controls, but from reading about this story, I'm not sure they would have helped in this particular case.

 

When someone goes off the deep end, all the intervention in the world may make no difference. If you haven't been in a situation like this, you may not fully appreciate how helpless family members and professionals may be, even if everyone desperately wants a good outcome. Even if they try everything. Sometimes there is literally *nothing* that can be done.

 

Mental illness can be fatal. The illness can be very difficult or impossible to treat. And a seemingly mild case of mental illness can take a dreadful turn within HOURS. (This happened in our own family, with a very bad outcome, although certainly not as bad as the Isla Vista case.)

 

Sometimes, unfortunately, it is also fatal to innocent bystanders.

 

At this point in time, we don't have good ways to treat some of these things. And identifying the very few mentally ill people who go on to harm others is nearly impossible before things go bad. However, even given that, I'm guessing that there are situations like this that are defused quite often. They don't make the international news because they didn't lead to the worst outcome. Nosy neighbors, parents, therapists, and police figure out the direction things are heading and put a stop to it (eg, http://www.startribune.com/local/257505631.html). But now and then, one will slip through and the worst will happen.

 

It's incredibly frustrating and sad, but I don't think blaming the parents or the police or the therapist is the way to go.

[Callie]

This guy was an adult. How exactly are his parents supposed to force him to do anything?

Exactly.

[flyingiguana]

Last night I heard another report about the killings in Santa Barbara, but it was the first time I had heard that the killer had Asperger Syndrome.  The man reading the news did add that Asperger syndrome isn't a violent disorder.  

 

However, if he had Asperger's along with mental illness, the Aspergers may have made him especially tenacious in carrying out the attack.  So I can see where it might be relevant to those trying to figure out how to respond in the future to warning signs.

[kroe1]

The only way shootings like this will stop is if we stop having guns so readily available.

But we did nothing after Sandy Hook and nothing will be done now.

 

UCSB alumni here.

This hurts.

How would this help the 3 young men he killed with a knife?

[poppy]

How would this help the 3 young men he killed with a knife?

 

Would you use this as a pro-gun excuse if talking to this man?

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/richard-martinez-father-of-shooting-rampage-victim-gives-tearful-plea-1.8177532

 

What on EARTH makes the fact that he used knife make the shootings OK?

3 people dead is a tragedy.  A rampage by an armed man is a mass murder.   

And it's a rampage of this sort that could happen to any of us, or our children, thanks to the NRA and its supporters.     The murderer still had 400 rounds of ammunition in his car when he died.  He had 3 legally obtained, registered guns.  What a world we live in.