Is this real or just a stereotype?

[shanvan]

Are men (husbands specifically) really always trying to get out of work and leaving too much to their wives--including instructing children in proper behavior and disciplining?  Are they constantly forgetting things and counting on their wives to remember everything, plan everything?  This sort of behavior is seen on tv constantly.  It was a huge part of Everybody Loves Raymond.  That show was tremendously popular.  Is that b/c so many people are living this way and can relate, or just b/c it's funny to watch people living that way?  Are women constantly nagging when they shouldn't, or comparing men to some model of perfection?  Do women really store up offenses and bring them up later?

 

Irl, I've seen those dynamics break up a marriage.  A friend recently told me her husband's lack of involvement in family life was a huge contributor to her impending divorce.   She got tired of trying to make him pay attention and gave up.  They were living separate lives for quite some time before the break up.  How many men are really like that?  Is it a basic part of being a man/husband today?  Has this been a shift in behavior, or have men always been like that?  Are they given a free pass b/c people expect them to be like that?  Another discussion w/ my mother (besides the 'honey' comments--see 'Do you think' thread) has me wondering.

[Dana]

It depends on the individuals involved.

It's sure not that way in my marriage.

[TeacherZee]

I think there is truth in the stereotype. That's how they become stereotypes BUT I don't think every marriage is like that.

[Trish]

It's common enough to be a stereotype, but by no means universal.

[J-rap]

None of the men in my life fit that stereotype.

[albeto.]

Are men (husbands specifically) really always trying to get out of work and leaving too much to their wives--including instructing children in proper behavior and disciplining?  Are they constantly forgetting things and counting on their wives to remember everything, plan everything?  This sort of behavior is seen on tv constantly.  It was a huge part of Everybody Loves Raymond.  That show was tremendously popular.  Is that b/c so many people are living this way and can relate, or just b/c it's funny to watch people living that way?  Are women constantly nagging when they shouldn't, or comparing men to some model of perfection?  Do women really store up offenses and bring them up later?

This is a stereotype. It sells. The buffoon father is often matched with a buffoon mother when children are the main characters of shows. You might have noticed conventionally unattractive husbands paired with conventionally attractive women (eg, King of Queens and of course, The Simpsons). The wives/moms are the voice of sobriety while the husbands/dads are the epitome of impulsive silliness. But this, I think, is a reaction to the June Cleaver and Father Knows Best era of American entertainment.

 

Irl, I've seen those dynamics break up a marriage.  A friend recently told me her husband's lack of involvement in family life was a huge contributor to her impending divorce.   She got tired of trying to make him pay attention and gave up.  They were living separate lives for quite some time before the break up.  How many men are really like that?  Is it a basic part of being a man/husband today?  Has this been a shift in behavior, or have men always been like that?  Are they given a free pass b/c people expect them to be like that?  Another discussion w/ my mother (besides the 'honey' comments--see 'Do you think' thread) has me wondering.

 

Perhaps he wasn't a huge contributor because he didn't share her interests. I'm often late to things I have no interest in attending. It's never meant as a passive-aggressive message, my brain simply attends to other things until I'm compelled to drop everything and go. Perhaps his brain is more ADD and he lacks sufficient executive functioning to maintain a thought or concept that isn't of personal interest. Perhaps they decided they were no longer compatible and living together was more stress than it was worth because they lacked the skills to resolve issues in such a way that both felt respected. I think whatever it was, stereotypes and simple explanations are not likely to be accurate. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

People can fall into basic "types" or stereotypes, though usually not on all points.  We are all so much more complex than that.  Sitcoms often gravitate to the buffoon role for someone - whether dad, mom or boss - because it is a lot easier to laugh at that than,  for example, the abusive type of person.  

[mama mills]

My husband doesn't take hints well and if I expected him too we would never have made it to 10 years of marriage.  We make it a point to express exactly what we want from the other. I think that it is easy to fall into that stereotype these days unless you are actively trying not to.

 

We watched Everybody Loves Raymond and would comment on all the things they were doing that they could have done differently it was fun for us and a way to see a little into the mind of the other.  Now, we much prefer The Middle it makes us laugh., and reminds us that we are all just trying to do our best.

 

We have noticed that we don't really fit in with our generation though... so maybe I am wrong.

[shanvan]

This is a stereotype. It sells. The buffoon father is often matched with a buffoon mother when children are the main characters of shows. You might have noticed conventionally unattractive husbands paired with conventionally attractive women (eg, King of Queens and of course, The Simpsons). The wives/moms are the voice of sobriety while the husbands/dads are the epitome of impulsive silliness. But this, I think, is a reaction to the June Cleaver and Father Knows Best era of American entertainment.

 

 

Perhaps he wasn't a huge contributor because he didn't share her interests. I'm often late to things I have no interest in attending. It's never meant as a passive-aggressive message, my brain simply attends to other things until I'm compelled to drop everything and go. Perhaps his brain is more ADD and he lacks sufficient executive functioning to maintain a thought or concept that isn't of personal interest. Perhaps they decided they were no longer compatible and living together was more stress than it was worth because they lacked the skills to resolve issues in such a way that both felt respected. I think whatever it was, stereotypes and simple explanations are not likely to be accurate. 

I've heard/seen people make this comment before and I really don't get it.  For one, in my friend's case, the Dh had no interest even in what the kids (his own children) were doing.  That's just sad.  Even if the interest isn't there, as a parent he needs to muster it up for the sake of his Dc.  From what she said, his own hobbies were a priority ahead of anything family/child related.

 

I can see that maybe the Dh might not have an interest in his wife's hobbies, even so, he's got to show some sort of attention to some of what she is doing, otherwise, what type of a relationship is it?  I'm not always interested enough in Dh's hobbies to be actively involved on a daily basis, but I do pay attention to some extent.  I'm not so absorbed in my own pursuits that I ignore his.  

[PuddleJumper1]

It may be true of some marriages but definitely not mine. Dh is the opposite of that stereotype. I have known of marriages, that to the outside eye, appear that way.

[shanvan]

Yes that happens all the time. And irl, as you say, it's not very funny is it?

​No.  It's heartbreaking to watch what is happening to the family I mentioned.  It was surprising too, b/c I had several conversations with the Dh and he seemed like a nice guy, but apparently he just wasn't there for his family.  

[albeto.]

I've heard/seen people make this comment before and I really don't get it.  For one, in my friend's case, the Dh had no interest even in what the kids (his own children) were doing.  That's just sad.  Even if the interest isn't there, as a parent he needs to muster it up for the sake of his Dc.  From what she said, his own hobbies were a priority ahead of anything family/child related.

 

I can see that maybe the Dh might not have an interest in his wife's hobbies, even so, he's got to show some sort of attention to some of what she is doing, otherwise, what type of a relationship is it?  I'm not always interested enough in Dh's hobbies to be actively involved on a daily basis, but I do pay attention to some extent.  I'm not so absorbed in my own pursuits that I ignore his.  

 

 

Perhaps he *showed* no interest in what his kids were doing. Perhaps spending time with his kids was overridden by constant expectations and demands and so he wanted to avoid that at all costs. Perhaps most of his kids' interests weren't really interesting to him, but others were, and because he knew how to avoid drawing attention, his involvement wasn't apparent to your friend. Perhaps he was feeling depressed and it was easier to stay away from people and things that triggered more depression. All I'm saying is people don't do things for no reason, and just because the reasons aren't readily available doesn't mean one's opinions are accurate, especially when they're derived from a subjective and hurt standpoint. 

[FaithManor]

I think that show made him out to be a buffoon for the cheap laughs. Right now it seems to be culturally acceptable to make fun of men just for the sake of it I guess as the pendulum sways against the tide of anti-female jokes that once abounded.

 

It hasn't always been like this in sitcoms. Family Ties comes to mind in that there were two very involved parents both of whom had parenting strengths and weaknesses but complemented each other pretty well and where there was mutual respect. It was a healthier dynamic that was portrayed.

 

I don't really like the show and we rarely watch it though it is on Netflix.

 

But, dh thought it was funny and occasionally put an episode on and I have to admit that the episode where the girl eats the fly, the brother doesn't believe Raymond and goes back to her apartment and she has frogs EVERYWHERE so he tries going out the window in the rain, cracked me up. It was pretty funny!

[shanvan]

Perhaps he *showed* no interest in what his kids were doing. Perhaps spending time with his kids was overridden by constant expectations and demands and so he wanted to avoid that at all costs. Perhaps most of his kids' interests weren't really interesting to him, but others were, and because he knew how to avoid drawing attention, his involvement wasn't apparent to your friend.

 

This, I know is not true.

 

Perhaps he was feeling depressed and it was easier to stay away from people and things that triggered more depression. All I'm saying is people don't do things for no reason, and just because the reasons aren't readily available doesn't mean one's opinions are accurate, especially when they're derived from a subjective and hurt standpoint. 

I did wonder about depression possibly playing a role.  That is something to consider.  There ARE selfish people in the world though, and it is possible that he is one of them, though I don't know that for sure.

 

At any rate, their situation is just one of many irl dynamics I've seen that make me wonder.  My mother seems to think the sitcom type marriage is for real and men are really like that.  

[FaithManor]

Shanvan, the only two dads I've ever known that showed no interest in their kids were men that never wanted children. Their wives goaded them into it, or went off b/c without their consent. They felt stuck. It was very sad because the children didn't ask to be born and so I felt like the male folk needed to buck up, suck it up butter cup, and put out a reasonable attempt at showing some interest and interacting with these kids. One I guess could make the case that if they had not wanted to have children ever, they should never have engaged in procreative activities. But, the reality is that this is pretty unreasonable for most adults who will eventually seek companionship and someone with whom to share their lives. So, they were stuck. Very, very stuck and angry, and their wives really needed to own up to the role they played in that.

 

Personally, I actually think that in my father in law's case, the whole family would have been better served if my MIL had divorced him, and she had single parented him without his presence. I think being abandoned on a daily basis by someone who is still physically there is worse than just never seeing them again. But, maybe I'm wrong about that.

[shanvan]

I also just remembered my neighbor's Dh walked over one day when Dh was painting the house and asked him why on earth he was doing that now.  I was very pregnant with Dd at the time.  He told Dh he really should be waiting until after the baby was born so he would have an excuse not to help me.  And I know for a fact he was serious.  He went on to tell Dh other tricks he has used to get out of work he didn't want to do.  Dh was like  :huh: 

[Moxie]

Maybe men are the last category of people anyone can get away with cracking jokes about.

Yep. It isn't PC to poke fun at other groups. Back when "Father Knows Best" was on, the joke was on racial minorities and women.

 

I also wonder if it is chicken/egg argument. Are lazy men the butt of jokes or are men lazy because that is how they think they should be??

[FaithManor]

I do think men raised in a certain generation TEND to be like that (not too involved with their kids).  My dad was not involved with us.  My husband's dad was not involved.  "Involvement" was you went to work and provided financially.  My husband tends toward that.  He hardly ever saw his dad.  I have to tell him to help and be involved.  He isn't stupid.  It's not that he does not care.  He just has no frame of reference.  He thinks he is doing what he is supposed to be doing.  Although it's been easier for him as the kids get older.  I think he literally didn't know what to do with them when they were very little.  Now they have common interests. 

My paternal grandfather was like this with his children and they grew up to not be close with their father. But, the funny thing was that he kind of mellowed with age and became this absolutely fantastic grandfather. I'm not kidding. He would personally babysit his grand babies, change diapers, walk the floor with a fussy one, etc. He played on the floor with us, took us places, taught us to garden, ...shoot, from the time I was about 6 until 13, I was practically joined at the hip with grandma and grandpa. He never missed a piano recital, band concert, sports event, you name it. For his own children, not once in their entire childhood's did he attend a single school event. Not once.

 

My dad was grateful that his father wanted to be a part of our lives. But, I know that it really hurt him that his father appeared to not care.

 

So, he tried very hard to be different from his dad. My dad was great. Yah, he probably didn't do much in the way of diapers, and since he was a joiner in terms of body fluids, there was no way he was helping out when we had a stomach bug. Yet, he was always there for us. He actively parented, and if he could possibly help it, he never missed out on anything important to us.

[FaithManor]

Yep. It isn't PC to poke fun at other groups. Back when "Father Knows Best" was on, the joke was on racial minorities and women.

 

I also wonder if it is chicken/egg argument. Are lazy men the butt of jokes or are men lazy because that is how they think they should be??

Now, don't go all existential on us! :D

[HRAAB]

Well, my dh used to display some of those tendencies.  I agree if they go unchecked it could definitely be a huge issue in a marriage.  In my (dh and me) personal situation, I chalked it up to the way he was raised.  His mother was a dictator and constantly pointed out how men could never get anything right, even being a dad.  She had to do it all because her dh would screw it up.  My dh heard this everyday.  He also saw his father retreat to his shop or outside chores to stay out of mil's way.  So his natural default was to go to work, come home and disappear.  That's what husbands/fathers did in his experience.  Through a lot of open, honest discussion, we worked it out.  He recognized how he had learned this behavior and that it wasn't conducive to a happy family - wife or children.  He's a very involved husband and dad now.

 

Also, I do understand about being burnt out and needing down time after a day at work.  Dh and I are both introverts.  After being at work all day, I needed some alone time to just get myself to the point where I could deal with family.  That is one of the reasons I quit working.  I understand that he needs to decompress when he gets home.  We try very hard to make sure he has his alone time.  And I make sure I get my alone time, too.

 

As for taking a hint, no.  My dh needs direct communication.  It took me a long time to understand that about him.  Why in the world could this man not pick up on clues?  Argh!  I had to learn to communicate differently.

 

I don't know if any of this are 'men' issues only. 

[MistiDelaney]

Some men really are that disengaged.  I have divorced more than one of them.  :crying: However, not all men are like that - my sweet Aussie boy, for example.  :001_tt1:

 

Yes, some women nag too much.  (Maybe me?)

 

I think that to some degree it comes down to communication.  I have to be very direct with my husband or he has no idea what I am trying to say.  And he doesn't do things the way I would, so I have to bite my tongue sometimes. :p  There are a couple of places where I am just way too picky and I have claimed those jobs for my own and asked him to identify something else that needs doing and claim those jobs for himself.  One day, I hope that will get through.  ;)  But he does keep on trying, and I try really hard not to complain about how he does them when I don't beat him to them.

 

 

[Amy in NH]

Are men (husbands specifically) really always trying to get out of work and leaving too much to their wives--including instructing children in proper behavior and disciplining?  

This was my ex, and it was the largest factor contributing to our break up.  It was like being a single mother living with a slob-for-a-roommate who refused to lift a finger.

 

Are they constantly forgetting things and counting on their wives to remember everything, plan everything?  

This is my DH.  We have an understanding that I will let him know about things on the calendar as they come up, because he otherwise forgets.  I can't blame him, in a way.  It is a huge undertaking to schedule and keep track of activities for six people, which is why I keep a calendar (on my desk in plain sight of anyone who wants to know what's coming up). 

 

It is a little bit annoying, sometimes, that I have to do all the planning for birthdays/holidays - but then he does other things that I don't do, so I suppose it evens out.  I have given up on trying to cover gift-giving for his family for Christmas, though.  It's just too much on top of everything else.

 

 

This sort of behavior is seen on tv constantly.  It was a huge part of Everybody Loves Raymond.  That show was tremendously popular.  Is that b/c so many people are living this way and can relate, or just b/c it's funny to watch people living that way?  Are women constantly nagging when they shouldn't, or comparing men to some model of perfection?  Do women really store up offenses and bring them up later?

 

Irl, I've seen those dynamics break up a marriage.  A friend recently told me her husband's lack of involvement in family life was a huge contributor to her impending divorce.   She got tired of trying to make him pay attention and gave up.  They were living separate lives for quite some time before the break up.  How many men are really like that?  Is it a basic part of being a man/husband today?  Has this been a shift in behavior, or have men always been like that?  Are they given a free pass b/c people expect them to be like that?  Another discussion w/ my mother (besides the 'honey' comments--see 'Do you think' thread) has me wondering.

 

[mommaduck]

It's a stereotype and a very damaging one to men in general. The way men are portrayed on tv is very hurtful. Yes, it's meant to be funny, but boiled down, it isn't.

[HRAAB]

It's a stereotype and a very damaging one to men in general. The way men are portrayed on tv is very hurtful. Yes, it's meant to be funny, but boiled down, it isn't.

 

Now that I think about it, my mil's favorite show is Everybody Loves Raymond.  She loves laughing and poking fun at men.

 

My fil was a very capable, responsible, hard working man.  Maybe mil felt her self worth and security threatened?  Maybe that's how she built herself up, by tearing her dh down.  I don't know.  Human dynamics and relationships and all.

 

The male stereotype - messy, never picking things up, irresponsible, leaving it all for someone else to do - resembles a very close female relative of mine.

[Above The Rowan]

Stereotypes tend to come from somewhere.

My ex husband was very much the "stereotype" and is why he is now my ex. He was absent as a husband and as a father and I got tired of doing everything alone AND being unhappy on top of that. So I asked for a divorce.

 

I don't find this stereotype funny on sitcoms and movies anymore and find it insulting and degrading to men. It's not cute or funny when men are uninterested in family life. And it's unfair to the men out there who do value their families and wouldn't dream of behaving like this "stereotypes". My partner now does not have to be asked, cajoled, or even hinted at - he is a wonderful father for my kids, he is an amazing partner to me and a great friend.

 

He has said often when we watch tv together or comedy movies, how annoying it is to see these male characters.

[LucyStoner]

Yep. It isn't PC to poke fun at other groups. Back when "Father Knows Best" was on, the joke was on racial minorities and women.

 

I also wonder if it is chicken/egg argument. Are lazy men the butt of jokes or are men lazy because that is how they think they should be??

Everyone says that but if you watch Father Knows Best (it's on Netflix), quite often the title is a joke and the joke is on the dad. It's a functional family and he's not portrayed as the dumb Dora (like Phill from Modern Family is) but I always scratch my head at this reference to Father Knows Best.

[LucyStoner]

Opps, 2x post.

[shanvan]

Now that I think about it, my mil's favorite show is Everybody Loves Raymond.  She loves laughing and poking fun at men.

 

My fil was a very capable, responsible, hard working man.  Maybe mil felt her self worth and security threatened?  Maybe that's how she built herself up, by tearing her dh down.  I don't know.  Human dynamics and relationships and all.

 

The male stereotype - messy, never picking things up, irresponsible, leaving it all for someone else to do - resembles a very close female relative of mine.

Interesting.  How was she parented?  Do you know what her parent's relationship was like?

[shanvan]

Anyone see that "Bad Teacher" show?  I guess it's already been canned.  It was not very flattering for teachers.

I was afraid to watch it.  What if I recognized myself?   :tongue_smilie: Especially after the 2+ hour math lesson w/ Dd earlier this week. Add 'bad sense of humor' to my list of offenses today.  (I haven't called anyone 'honey' though.  Maybe I need to make that my code word for Dc when we are having a rough school day.)

[Moxie]

Everyone says that but if you watch Father Knows Best (it's on Netflix), quite often the title is a joke and the joke is on the dad. It's a functional family and he's not portrayed as the dumb Dora ( like from Modern Family I always scratch my head at this reference to Father Knows Best.

 

Ha!  I've honestly never seen the show!  I was just going by the title and the time period.

[HRAAB]

Interesting.  How was she parented?  Do you know what her parent's relationship was like?

 

Not good.  Her mother was impossible.  She was mean, cranky, outspoken, and stubborn.  I knew her.  From what I've heard from other family members, she was always like this, even when she was growing up.  Her father drank.  Her mother didn't treat her well.  I think her father was much nicer, at least when he wasn't drinking.  Knowing this made it a little easier to overlook my mil.  Maybe not so much overlook as ignore her behavior.  People are so complicated.

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

When I was growing up my parents (especially my mom) never let us watch shows like that. I don't think that dad really would have cared but my mom was pretty picky about what we watched and dad went along with it. She told us that she didn't want us to watch things that portrayed the dad is an idiot and where the rest of the family disrespected him. She wanted us to respect our dad and appreciate what he did for us. She also didn't want my brothers to think it was ok to be like that or us girls to expect our future husbands to be like that. We were annoyed at the time but now I realize she was right.

 

My dad was/is not a "hands on" dad. He changed very few diapers, he attends recitals mostly because my mom wants him too, he didn't spend tons of time playing with us. But he did work very hard to provide for us. He worked crazy hours and tons of over time. He would do occasional special things for or with us but it wasn't often. He was never as "in tune" to the daily household things as mom was. And that's ok, it doesn't make him an idiot. He wasn't home as much as she was and had work stuff to think about too. 

 

My husband seems clueless sometimes too. Ok, lots of times....But this is my world and I know it inside and out. I'm sure I sound just as clueless to him when we talk about police stuff and laws and statutes! Different strengths and weaknesses are ok. My husband and I are partners. I'm good at things that he's not good at, and that shouldn't make him the brunt of jokes. I really think a lot of these sitcoms pick on men because it's the last group we're allowed to pick on. You can't make jokes about race or ethnicity or about women so that just leaves men.  And I really wish it would stop. Dad's are important and I hate that they're degraded for our amusement.

[shanvan]

When I was growing up my parents (especially my mom) never let us watch shows like that. I don't think that dad really would have cared but my mom was pretty picky about what we watched and dad went along with it. She told us that she didn't want us to watch things that portrayed the dad is an idiot and where the rest of the family disrespected him. She wanted us to respect our dad and appreciate what he did for us. She also didn't want my brothers to think it was ok to be like that or us girls to expect our future husbands to be like that. We were annoyed at the time but now I realize she was right.

 

I've never let my kids watch them either.

 

My dad was/is not a "hands on" dad. He changed very few diapers, he attends recitals mostly because my mom wants him too, he didn't spend tons of time playing with us. But he did work very hard to provide for us. He worked crazy hours and tons of over time. He would do occasional special things for or with us but it wasn't often. He was never as "in tune" to the daily household things as mom was. And that's ok, it doesn't make him an idiot. He wasn't home as much as she was and had work stuff to think about too. 

 

To me, your dad sounds like he was pulling his weight as a parent.  Though, i also know of a marriage that broke up recently b/c the Dh choose to be at work over family, even when it wasn't necessary.  Yes, he was helping people through his work and I respect what he does, but it was at a cost and he was putting his commitments to strangers over his comittment to his Dw and children.  She got tired of getting nothing but leftovers and fighting for every little bit of attention.  Then you have the Dhs like my neighbor's.  When she is not home he locks his kids outdoors for hours and tells them they can play outdoors like he did when he was a kid.  My Dh taught his youngest to ride a bike and we cleaned out his bleeding scrapes and put on bandaids when he banged on his back door and his father would not let him in.    

 

My husband seems clueless sometimes too. Ok, lots of times....But this is my world and I know it inside and out. I'm sure I sound just as clueless to him when we talk about police stuff and laws and statutes! Different strengths and weaknesses are ok. My husband and I are partners. I'm good at things that he's not good at, and that shouldn't make him the brunt of jokes. I really think a lot of these sitcoms pick on men because it's the last group we're allowed to pick on. You can't make jokes about race or ethnicity or about women so that just leaves men.  And I really wish it would stop. Dad's are important and I hate that they're degraded for our amusement.

I agree with you, but I do think there are men contributing to the stereotype, or taking advantage of it.  AND there are women who look at their Dhs trying to fit them into the stereotype too.

[shanvan]

I think dh and I both have our forgetful moments. I try to write things on the calendar and create a huge check off list whenever we leave town. But we don't write everything down and yes, we both forget things at times.

 

Guilty. I know there is such thing as "fair fighting" and in fair fighting you are not supposed to do this. But yes, I have done this many times. Will many women openly admit to this? I don't know. It's not something to be proud of.

 

Sometimes when I read this message board I feel like many people have a great balance in their relationship (or those willing to share convey that) but I don't know if TWTM forums are an accurate sample of the population. I really don't know what to consider a fair balance. Everyone has differing opinions.

 

Well, I have done my fair share of things I don't like admitting to.  Even my friend getting the divorce says she had her share of the blame.  

 

​I had similar thoughts about the WTM boards not being an accurate sampling of the population.  My mother insists many-most marriages/men really are like that.   It got me thinking.  I had forgotten all about my neighbor and her Dh.  I think she would openly admit to having a marriage that fits the stereotype.

[Slache]

Not mine. My husband has ADD, and I think that as well as many other factors can make husbands appear careless. When he's home I make lists for him and he's trained himself to keep referring to the list, but when we're out it's a whole other ball game. I'll ask him to watch the kids while I run down an isle and come back to one kid falling out of the cart, the other around the corner and my husband comparing ice cream brands. He loves his family more than anything in the world, but he's a dork.  People ask me how I can stand it but they don't understand that he's not actually careless, he just isn't capable of doing two things at once and is easily distracted.

[kewb]

It is an exaggerated truth.  Some people take their cues from television shows and if both parties allow that kind of behavior without ever having meaningful conversation about expectations it will settle in and be next to impossible to move out.  Yes. my dh can be a bit of a buffoon and silly and he is "fun daddy".  But part of why that behavior is acceptable in my marriage is because before he was disabled he worked 60+ hours a week.  He wanted his time with the kids to be fun.  That didn't mean he wouldn't be the heavy if needed and it didn't mean that he got to pawn everything else off on me.  It meant I did the majority of that stuff because he wasn't home.  He was earning the $$ so I could be a stay at home mom and homeschool our kids.

[shanvan]

It is an exaggerated truth.  Some people take their cues from television shows and if both parties allow that kind of behavior without ever having meaningful conversation about expectations it will settle in and be next to impossible to move out.  Yes. my dh can be a bit of a buffoon and silly and he is "fun daddy".  But part of why that behavior is acceptable in my marriage is because before he was disabled he worked 60+ hours a week.  He wanted his time with the kids to be fun.  That didn't mean he wouldn't be the heavy if needed and it didn't mean that he got to pawn everything else off on me.  It meant I did the majority of that stuff because he wasn't home.  He was earning the $$ so I could be a stay at home mom and homeschool our kids.

Well, now you have me rethinking the marriage that broke up over the dh's overworking.  Maybe the wife's attitude played a role. Maybe they developed a lifestyle that required extra hours to pay the bills.  It's hard to know. I don't know how much communication went on or if it was healthy.  I don't know the wife in that marriage well.  I've had more contact with the husband and based on his own childhood and relationships with his parents, I'd say he is a classic workaholic, but I'm sure his wife had her own issues too.

[Guest]

I have an adult son who completely does not fit the stereotype. I used to think it was funny before I had boys, now I find it every bit as offensive as "dumb blonde" jokes.

[LucyStoner]

Like all stereotypes, it has some exemplars and a grain or two of truth but then it grows to the point it isn't accurate or fair.

 

I have often wondered if the more vocal female supporters of "male headship" in the home and marriage are married to childish men who needed to take control/take charge to be involved at all. A lot of the women I have read stuff by seem to be describing a selfish, self involved jackass of a man pre changing their marriage dynamic.

 

My husband though has the sort of authority and respect in our home that you earn, not demand. True leadership comes from empowering rather than demeaning others.

[fairfarmhand]

Everyone says that but if you watch Father Knows Best (it's on Netflix), quite often the title is a joke and the joke is on the dad. It's a functional family and he's not portrayed as the dumb Dora ( like from Modern Family I always scratch my head at this reference to Father Knows Best.

 

YES! I've been thinking this all day. Father knows best is somewhat tongue in cheek. This show still follows that pattern, Dad-goofy guy, means well but messes up alot. It is not quite as overt as today, but it's still there.

 

Leave it to Beaver is the same way. In fact, I find June Cleaver hilarious. She's very dry in her humor, but she is definitely not portrayed as stupid or less-than.

[gardenmom5]

I think it is a stereotype.   sure there are men like that, but there are also women like that.

[Laura Corin]

Are men (husbands specifically) really always trying to get out of work and leaving too much to their wives--including instructing children in proper behavior and disciplining?  Are they constantly forgetting things and counting on their wives to remember everything, plan everything?  

 

No.

 

L

[Reefgazer]

Gotta be a stereotype; my husband slaves at work, then comes home and slaves here, then slaves on the weekend.  I have to beg him to rest and goof-off with me.

[Audrey]

It certainly isn't a reality in my marriage. 

 

I think as a stereotype, it's an outdated stereotype, tied to an outmoded way of thinking.  IME, it's gasping it's last breaths.  Outside of oppressive micro-cultures within our countries (I'm speaking of Canada and US, as that's where my experience lies), the old detached dad who will do the bare minimum only when cajoled or bribed or nagged is not readily apparent anymore.  I think they're shortly to go the way of the Neaderthals and I think that's a very good thing. 

[solascriptura]

I sometimes wonder about the attitudes that come into play in these cases. My husband's coworker told my DH that his wife just sees him as a paycheck. She said, "just bring home your paycheck and I'll take care of everything else." He didn't seem happy about it. My husband said that if I ever felt this way about him, he would be crushed.

[PeacefulChaos]

I think it's a stereotype.  

Do I think there are a few men out there like that?  Sure.  I also think there are a few women out there like that.  :shrug:

But the overwhelming majority?  No.  

[ThisIsTheDay]

Are men (husbands specifically) really always trying to get out of work and leaving too much to their wives--including instructing children in proper behavior and disciplining?  Are they constantly forgetting things and counting on their wives to remember everything, plan everything?  This sort of behavior is seen on tv constantly.  It was a huge part of Everybody Loves Raymond.  That show was tremendously popular.  Is that b/c so many people are living this way and can relate, or just b/c it's funny to watch people living that way?  Are women constantly nagging when they shouldn't, or comparing men to some model of perfection?  Do women really store up offenses and bring them up later?

 

These sort of shows are typical for sitcoms, I think--a lot of stupid and not really very funny.

 

I suppose that if a wife constantly treated her husband like a child, he would at some point begin to act like one.

 

Debra made me want to puke. 

[Murphy101]

Idk. I know my marriage is nothing like that. If anything, my dh often does more than me these days.

 

I do think the first part of the problem with this stereotype or attitude about it is two things

 

That anyone is keeping "score" to begin with

 

And

 

That either if them feel it's their job to make the other person be/act/do/think ______.

 

We are on the same team, so all points are both of ours and I married him bc I love him, not because I wanted a project to fix or whatever. It's not my job to change him.

[SadieMarie]

I think it is almost impossible to understand someone else's marriage. Things can look very different from the outside. My dh used to complain about one of his friend's wives, she was demanding, he got no free time, she was critical.... What I kept pointing out to dh was that his friend seemed pretty happy and he CHOSE her kwim? He was maybe looking for someone to be in charge. That is what he wanted, just because dh doesn't want that, doesn't make it a bad marriage for his friend.

 

As far as your friend's husband. Who knows what happened. Maybe he tried to be involved and it was not good enough, or "right". I think that is fairly common too. Maybe your friend wanted him to be involved and then wanted to micromanage HOW he was involved. Sometimes men don't care and don't want to make the effort. Sometimes they try and do it "wrong" and end up giving up. For example, when dh loads the dishwasher I have to make myself not go and redo it correctly lol. It is very hard.

[fdrinca]

It was the absolute truth for my father, this stereotype of Buffoon Dad and Husband. He couldn't make any food (save for Hot Pockets), had no idea how the washing machine worked (despite having an advanced degree in electrical engineering and enough common sense to read the manual), etc, etc. My mother perpetuated his dependence by enacting very tough standards for "how things ought to be" in regards to the proper way to do laundry, mow the law, etc. (For the record, the first load of laundry I did was after moving out for college.) 

After my mother died, my father had to learn these skills. It was humbling for him. He felt like a jerk for having my mother do all of this work for so long. He realized that he could, in fact, put items on the calendar, send birthday cards, dust baseboards............wait. No. There's not a dusted baseboard in the house :) 

ALSO:

 

In my experience, my DH wants to be an active partner in housekeeping/parenting but the fact is I am home and with the children 10 times more than he is. I see things he doesn't see (like those pesky baseboards). I know when the kids are melting down from low blood sugar. I have experience and observation that he doesn't simply by virtue of the time I spend in this home environment. I'd like to think that if he were at home this much, he'd have a less "baffoon"ish approach as well. 

 

But, he does seem stupidly surprised by some housekeeping tasks I ask him to do, like washing the walls or dusting the tops of electrical outlets and light switches. He confessed that it wouldn't have ever occurred to him that these would get dirty.