note to manager: this is why homeschoolers don't come to your events

[Cera]

I don't think that is unusual or unreasonable at all.  I have found that everyone has their own definition of annoying and since there are so many people in the world who don't necessarily consider other people or react well when asked to control their children it is easier for most places to have blanket policies.  

 

When we have attended homeschool events we just trade off.  A couple of moms take the babies and toddlers while the other moms take their older children.  It isn;t ideal but everyone rotates and gets a chance to enjoy performances with their kids.

[ocelotmom]

I really don't think OP's point is that the policy is unreasonable. Just that on one hand they're saying they want more homeschoolers, and on the other, they have barriers that are pretty specific to the homeschooling population.

[Word Nerd]

I really don't think OP's point is that the policy is unreasonable. Just that on one hand they're saying they want more homeschoolers, and on the other, they have barriers that are pretty specific to the homeschooling population.

 

Having babies and young children is not pretty specific to the homeschooling population. It's no more inconvenient for a homeschooling group to make alternative childcare arrangements than it is for a MOPS group or a SAHM whose older kids are in school. My issue with the OP is the implication that homeschoolers should be given preferential treatment.

[momma2three]

I really don't think OP's point is that the policy is unreasonable. Just that on one hand they're saying they want more homeschoolers, and on the other, they have barriers that are pretty specific to the homeschooling population.

 

I think that what's "specific to the homeschooling population" is that maybe more homeschoolers think that families should come as "package deals," no matter the age range (FWIW, it's not something I've actually witnessed much IRL, but I read it on here a lot).  And I don't really think that business owners are obligated to agree.

[KungFuPanda]

I really don't think OP's point is that the policy is unreasonable. Just that on one hand they're saying they want more homeschoolers, and on the other, they have barriers that are pretty specific to the homeschooling population.

I disagree. For every family that would attend if babies were allowed there is likely another family that would skip the show to avoid infants in the theatre. It sounds more like they have trouble advertising to their target audience OR the homeschooling population in the area isn't large enough to make policy changes financially worthwhile.

 

Being unwilling or unable to find a babysitter for infants is an individual issue and not a homeschooling one.

[SKL]

I thought the "specific to the homeschooling population" part of it was that the school kids come with their teachers as a class, not with their mothers as a family.  There is no need for the school population to worry about infants, unless parents with infants are coming along.

[SKL]

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but is this not a production targeted to young children?  Who has been to a children's production that did not contain all manner of noises?  The noisiest kids aren't the infants, but rather the preschoolers, and even some school kids can get ridiculous when there is a low adult-to-child ratio in a new environment.  So I really think this is illogical.  The only exception would be if it was a sort of hands-on thing where a minimum developmental level is needed.

 

But I agree, if you must restrict babies from a children's production, be clear about it up-front.

[Mrs Mungo]

Having babies and young children is not pretty specific to the homeschooling population. It's no more inconvenient for a homeschooling group to make alternative childcare arrangements than it is for a MOPS group or a SAHM whose older kids are in school. My issue with the OP is the implication that homeschoolers should be given preferential treatment.

I agree. I don't think it is necessary to bring babies to theater productions. I *do* agree that it would be fine to have a baby-friendly performance that was advertised that way. Even our local movie theater has a "baby friendly" matinee time (the sound is not as loud for one thing). They don't disallow babies at other times, but I think it does encourage moms with babies to go at a particular time and avoid disturbing other people.

[Soror]

Our group just went to a children's theatre and all ages were welcome, although they did let us know that they had a cry room that we were to use if any child became disruptive. I took all of my children but made sure to bring my dh, in case I needed to take the baby out. The place was full of various school groups of different ages. My baby wasn't the only one. I was a bit nervous, as you never know with young ones but she nursed most of the time and was no issue. The school children made much more noise than she ever did. We've went to various plays and movies with babies and usually it is fine, most of the time they nurse and if it happens to be a bad day then one of us will take them to the lobby. If we are going through a rough stage then I make sure it is around nap time or we just skip. 

 

I don't expect all theatres to be open to babies but I would expect it with a children's theatre. Toddlers are often much more difficult than babies in my experience. We do teach the kids to be quiet though and get compliments on the behavior quite often. 

[marbel]

I thought the "specific to the homeschooling population" part of it was that the school kids come with their teachers as a class, not with their mothers as a family.  There is no need for the school population to worry about infants, unless parents with infants are coming along.

 

That's true but I was thinking more generally - families also like to go to movies, plays, etc. together, apart from school/homeschool performances.   If some members of the family are too young, either the family has to split up so a parent can stay with the younger kids, or they have to find a babysitter. 

 

I think what is specific to homeschool families is the notion that everyone has to do everything together. 

 

(Somewhat off topic but not exactly:  My daughter wanted to go see a movie with a friend, but the parents wouldn't let the girl go because the movie was not appropriate for the girl's younger sister.   The younger sister hadn't been invited.  But, if both kids couldn't see the movie, no one was seeing the movie.   I just don't see any people except homeschoolers with that sort of philosophy.  It can be stifling to the older siblings.)

 

[mommaduck]

I thought the "specific to the homeschooling population" part of it was that the school kids come with their teachers as a class, not with their mothers as a family.  There is no need for the school population to worry about infants, unless parents with infants are coming along.

 

With most of the homeschooling population, the parent IS the teacher. There are many homeschooling groups where family do things together and arrange field trips together, but do not function as co-op classes with segregated children and individual teachers. Therefore, homeschooling population includes the parent/teachers and any siblings.

 

I've never been to a homeschool convention because of bans on young children, have only participated in two homeschool co-ops (where child care was switched out), and have had to avoid multiple other homeschool activities due to costs, bans on young children, etc. To have something like this, a field trip type event, place a ban on young children, yes, they are cutting out a significant portion of homeschoolers. It is the theatre's choice. There are points on both sides. However, to whine that they wish more homeschoolers would participate without looking at WHY they may not be participating is shortsighted.

[brehon]

As a musician & performance attendee I agree with others who say *in general* infants and performances, including possibly children's theatre, don't mix well. I don't pay good money for my family & I to be distracted and not enjoy whatever performance we're attending. And I say this as a mother of kids whose age range is almost teen through 16 months.

 

Choosing (or not being able) [eta: not] to leave infants or small children with either a parent or sitter means that one doesn't attend certain things for a season. This is true whether or not one educates children at home.

[catz]

We live urban in one of the biggest theater towns in the country. So we attend school day theater shows 2-3 times a month to shows marketed for school groups. Some of these are very large theaters that can seat into the thousands. The school group shows in the large theaters at shows marketed to elementary are some of the LOUDEST events I've ever been to, no kidding. So for these shows, it does seem silly to me to not allow a few infants/toddlers to attend with their parents. We have sat behind some school kids who were so extremely annoying/obnoxious at some of these shows.

 

We have a large local children's theater which gets national recognition. They have added special needs/young kid friendly shows that are less loud (no surprise noises), lights are kept up, there are multiple intermissions, and obviously you can expect more noise/disruption at these shows. I think that's an excellent idea.

 

As I said before, I'm not against age limit policies at all. A show like Charlotte's Web with large school groups is very different than the Opera, professional ballet, shakespeare, etc to me. We have been taking my kids to performances since they were very small and so they were trained early and often. My dd especially could sit still through a 2 hour show starting at age 1. Music lessons/recitals are great training for this because they especially can be very BORING. ;)

[redsquirrel]

We live urban in one of the biggest theater towns in the country. So we attend school day theater shows 2-3 times a month to shows marketed for school groups. Some of these are very large theaters that can seat into the thousands. The school group shows in the large theaters at shows marketed to elementary are some of the LOUDEST events I've ever been to, no kidding. So for these shows, it does seem silly to me to not allow a few infants/toddlers to attend with their parents. We have sat behind some school kids who were so extremely annoying/obnoxious at some of these shows.

 

We have a large local children's theater which gets national recognition. They have added special needs/young kid friendly shows that are less loud (no surprise noises), lights are kept up, there are multiple intermissions, and obviously you can expect more noise/disruption at these shows. I think that's an excellent idea.

 

As I said before, I'm not against age limit policies at all. A show like Charlotte's Web with large school groups is very different than the Opera, professional ballet, shakespeare, etc to me. We have been taking my kids to performances since they were very small and so they were trained early and often. My dd especially could sit still through a 2 hour show starting at age 1. Music lessons/recitals are great training for this because they especially can be very BORING. ;)

 

Oh my goodness, YES! One of the performances of the Nutcracker is a school children only performance. It is friday morning and they buss kids in from the surrounding counties to see it. They get a good discount and the performers get a good first show on a friday morning before the 'real' opening night.

 

That audience of kids grade 1-5 is unbelievably loud and poorly behaved. Kids are screaming and crying and running up and down the aisles. It is unbelievable.

 

Now, the final performance is a Sunday matinee. It has the highest number of toddlers and preschoolers and school aged kids with their parents, aside from the school only performance. The audience is well behaved and stays in their seats. The difference is that the kids are there with their parents.

 

When I did take my then pre-school aged kid and a toddler to the children's theater series the audience was consistently rapt with attention.

[stripe]

As a former stage performer, I will say that babies are a very difficult distraction to overcome

I'd rather listen to a baby fuss than a cell phone ring. ;)

[fdrinca]

I think that what's "specific to the homeschooling population" is that maybe more homeschoolers think that families should come as "package deals," no matter the age range (FWIW, it's not something I've actually witnessed much IRL, but I read it on here a lot).  And I don't really think that business owners are obligated to agree.

 

 

I've been thoughtfully reading through these replies, thinking about our experience and why I had such a strong reaction when I found out that the little ones weren't allowed. 

 

I agree that business owners are free to make their own policies. And I respect that many performances have been ruined by screaming babies and jumping toddlers. 

 

I had cleared (with someone not qualified to do so) that the infants and preschoolers would be admitted, and the ticket director who worked with me stated over and over how they really needed to reach out to the homeschool community (their performances were under-attended, they were losing funding, etc.) 

 

I was taken aback with the directors' somewhat hostile tone that the little kids wouldn't be admitted. "Children under first grade are absolutely prohibited to come to the performance. Their presence is a distraction, and there is no reason I can think of that they should attend. Under no circumstances would this be permitted."

 

Do I think that little kids need to come to every event? No. 

 

Do I think that a struggling children's theater's performance of a children's play (the read-aloud of which my preschooler enjoyed) may be missing out on an opportunity to expand business? Yes.

Frankly, I was surprised that this was the policy, given that no other theater in the area has such a policy. I should have suspected that there was something inhospitable about the theater when I'd not ever seen a field trip planned for their plays. 

 

I don't necessarily think that the whole family attends is a critical part of the homeschooling experience, but among our co-op of homeschooling families, it is one of the chief reasons we've decided to homeschool. The family relationship is first. The bigger kids help with the younger ones, the younger ones learn patience and grace by example, and for the most part it works out well. 

[katilac]

 <snip>

I was taken aback with the directors' somewhat hostile tone that the little kids wouldn't be admitted. "Children under first grade are absolutely prohibited to come to the performance. Their presence is a distraction, and there is no reason I can think of that they should attend. Under no circumstances would this be permitted."

<snip>

 

 This was not in your original post, and it is quite different from "No infants allowed." 

 

"No infants allowed" merely states a fairly common policy in reasonable, unemotional terms. It is not the three words I would have noticed and focused on upon receiving such a weird and over-the-top response to sending in ticket numbers. 

 

If they are geared toward school age only, then their no infants policy also makes sense (because there won't be toddlers and preschoolers either). But it's quite bizarre that they wouldn't have a more business like response at the ready, as I'm sure the question of younger kids attending has come up before (many elementary schools encompass kindergarten and preschool). 

[mommaduck]

Wow, yes, that wording is strong. Particularly after having been told they would be welcomed. I'd be making a phone call. It needs to be cleared up that you were told one thing by one person and that the director's correction was worded is an offensive manner.

[SKL]

Yeah, that was a very rude and unnecessary way to state a policy.

 

I would cancel and who cares if they lose funding.  Let the funding go to organizations that know how to interact with the community.

[redsquirrel]

and again, it makes no sense given that the play is of Charlotte's Web. That is exactly the sort of family oriented performance to which I would expect to be able to take young children. There is a big chance my then 5th grader wouldn't want to see a play of Charlotte's Web, but my then 5 year old would.

 

And I think you might have found the source of their leaky funding problem. Many people expect to be able to bring their children to a children's theatre.

[Word Nerd]

 This was not in your original post, and it is quite different from "No infants allowed." 

 

"No infants allowed" merely states a fairly common policy in reasonable, unemotional terms. It is not the three words I would have noticed and focused on upon receiving such a weird and over-the-top response to sending in ticket numbers. 

 

If they are geared toward school age only, then their no infants policy also makes sense (because there won't be toddlers and preschoolers either). But it's quite bizarre that they wouldn't have a more business like response at the ready, as I'm sure the question of younger kids attending has come up before (many elementary schools encompass kindergarten and preschool). 

:iagree:

[stripe]

Children under first grade are absolutely prohibited to come to the performance. Their presence is a distraction, and there is no reason I can think of that they should attend. 

What a horrible response from the director! I can think of many reasons why they can attend! For one, so that they will enjoy the arts as children, and as adults.

 

My local arty movie theater also has showings of classic children's movies, now that I think of it, but, since so many of us adults also like them, they are not kids-only.

 

I would look to a more child-positive environment for your group and your family. Yuck.

[Audrey]

I'd rather listen to a baby fuss than a cell phone ring. ;)

 

 

True, but at least the cell phone has a definite 'off' switch.

[DianeW88]

Children behaving inappropriately at various public performances, museums, field trips, etc., is just one more reason why we stopped doing anything with homeschool groups years ago.   And it isn't really the infants who are the problem.  It's the toddlers and preschoolers.  WAY too many mothers include their toddlers and preschoolers in activities that are not geared for their age group.  I've been on too many museum trips that were aimed for school aged children (third grade and above), and one or two moms decide that everybody in their family can participate.  It's worse than babies.  The toddler/preschool group can't sit still, run around the exhibit, touch what they're not supposed to, talk out loud, and interrupt in the middle of the guide's presentation to ask questions or make comments.  It is incredibly rude and renders the field trip useless for the age group for which it is intended.  And the moms seem to think it's adorable.  No.  It's not.  It's completely ill-mannered and thoughtless.  And trust me...no one thinks your kid is cute.  They think he's a brat.

 

And even taking little three year old Johnny or Suzy to the side while he or she is having a melt down and trying to explain to the child why he cannot reach up and touch the pretty flowers on the Monet is distracting.  Nobody else in the room can hear the guide over the child's wailing.  Galleries are not sound proof.  And you are not doing your child any favors by bringing him to something that is not suited for his age group.  If you have to take him to the Impressionist exhibit (and the museum allows it), do it as a family trip on a Saturday.  Don't ruin the exhibit for an entire group of children for whom it is age appropriate, and who are trying to learn something.  Please.

 

Rant over. :D

[AimeeM]

I'm on their side. Why not have one or two parents stay back with the infants while the other adults take the older children? I wouldn't want to be in a theatre with a bunch of infants.

[Catwoman]

This was not in your original post, and it is quite different from "No infants allowed."

 

"No infants allowed" merely states a fairly common policy in reasonable, unemotional terms. It is not the three words I would have noticed and focused on upon receiving such a weird and over-the-top response to sending in ticket numbers.

 

If they are geared toward school age only, then their no infants policy also makes sense (because there won't be toddlers and preschoolers either). But it's quite bizarre that they wouldn't have a more business like response at the ready, as I'm sure the question of younger kids attending has come up before (many elementary schools encompass kindergarten and preschool).

 

:iagree:

 

The OP's story has changed dramatically from what she originally posted.

 

First, it was very specifically, "NO INFANTS ALLOWED," and now it's "children under first grade are absolutely prohibited." I find this very confusing, and quite frankly, it makes no sense at all. Why was she only concerned about infants not being permitted, when it is far more unusual that even kindergarten-age kids wouldn't be allowed to attend a performance of Charlotte's Web?

 

I hate it when the story changes in mid-thread. :glare:

 

I hope the OP will come back and clarify, because I feel like I'm missing something here.

[Rebel Yell]

I understand that.  I often feel that children are often disrespected in our society.  So much isn't child friendly.  I was lucky to be raised in an area that was very child friendly-I went to plays, ballets, art museums, everything as a kid and do the same with my kids.  So when I go somewhere they're not invited, it does bug me.  Kids can be disruptive, but so can adults.  I've trained my kids from infancy (gently) to be silent and respectful in these places.  Not every parent does, but it makes me mad when they are followed at museums because they are automatically assumed to be trouble. 

 

I am not beng snarky when I say I'm glad that worked out for you. I had one silent child- people thought my sling was a purse because there were no signs of baby noises, smells, etc. I had another child that NOTHING could silence.  NOTHING- not even to this day! She's is not and never was "bad", she is just noisy.  And messy. And smart. And fun. But even well-intentioned advice and methods bordering on abuse couldn't "fix" that, so we just didn't take her out to places where it would not be welcome. I was sad, and the older child had to miss a few things, or I sent her with another family. We made it work.

 

EDITING TO ADD! We never abused our child to keep her quiet- it was more of the advice given. Wasn't even going to try it.

 

[Rebel Yell]

Sadly, many parents ARE unable to judge and will let their children disrupt the performance. As a singer, I have experienced countless concerts where the parents did NOT remove their crying infants from the audience, despite a staffed nursery provided free of charge. It has taken the conductor stopping the performance mid-piece and directly addressing the parent to get the babies out of the concert. Not just once, but multiple times. We have several live recordings ruined by crying babies. It seems to be the rule rather than the exception. The cake took the parents who gave their baby a rattle to keep it from crying.

 

YOU may be the parents who would leave the performance, but sadly, that would make you an exception rather than the rule.

 

:svengo:

 

[SKL]

I don't deny that it is a problem if tots / preschoolers are distracting others from the performance.  But I have noticed that kids who are used to going to productions with their parents, from infancy, seem to have a much better sense of how to act there.  I'm sure there are exceptions, but I hate to see a blanket statement that wee ones are sure to cause problems for everyone else.  I have had far more experiences that were ruined by adults than by little children.  Maybe if those adults had been taught while young how to behave in a theater, I wouldn't be saying that.

[Rebel Yell]

That's true but I was thinking more generally - families also like to go to movies, plays, etc. together, apart from school/homeschool performances.   If some members of the family are too young, either the family has to split up so a parent can stay with the younger kids, or they have to find a babysitter. 

 

I think what is specific to homeschool families is the notion that everyone has to do everything together. 

 

(Somewhat off topic but not exactly:  My daughter wanted to go see a movie with a friend, but the parents wouldn't let the girl go because the movie was not appropriate for the girl's younger sister.   The younger sister hadn't been invited.  But, if both kids couldn't see the movie, no one was seeing the movie.   I just don't see any people except homeschoolers with that sort of philosophy.  It can be stifling to the older siblings.)

 

 

How sad.  There is a 4.5 year gap between my first two. 6.5 between eldest and youngest. I could not imagine telling my 18yo that she could only do things appropriate for the 11yo. Our rule has always been "It might not be for your sisters, so use headphones for the movie/music if they're around." Easy!

 

[Soror]

I find this conversation very interesting. It seems it is being used as a venting place for hs group rants. I really don't see the rants specific to infants but not to other young children, especially young nursing babies as they are usually much easier to keep quiet. The play we seen recently was very loud, it was a children's performance so it was filled with young people. We're not talking about going to Broadway or an adult's play, the expectation would be totally different.

 

 I have however seen some of the other side as well. I remember one history speech that was aimed at high school and at least some of our moms brought their young elementary and pre-k kids (as my oldest was only 7 at the time I stayed home!). I don't know the purpose of taking a very young child to something like that and I can see the attitude sometimes that everything should be for everyone. We as homeschoolers can take that way overboard at times. Sometimes it really is better to wait and let those of appropriate age enjoy it. 

 

However, one of the benefits of homeschooling is that we aren't tied down to grade levels and are able to do based on ability and interest, not arbitrary ages and grades.  The bigger problem is that not everyone has the same expectations for behavior. Funny enough to me usually our hs group with all different ages is quieter and better behaved than the school groups that we see when out and about. I know that it varies from group to group though. Most moms have pretty good standard of behavior and similar expectations so that makes it work well. 

 

Fwiw our group recently went to the art museum as well. This museum is open for all ages so I don't know why the hs group should only have certain ages. We tried to group everyone with similar ages the best we could for the tours but we had a wide range all together. For that event my husband ending up taking my younger 2 to the van as they were tired and fussy and we realized about 5 min in that getting them to behave appropriately would be much more of a hassle than leaving. That is why I take my dh to events that might be questionable. If they had been in a good mood though I wouldn't have any problem with them being there. I think there is value in them getting to see the pictures, even if they don't understand the details. It isn't like a speech when they don't understand the words, there is intrinsic beauty in art and music and as long as they aren't impeding anyone's else experience than I find it fine for them to be there if allowed. 

[shawthorne44]

I attended a ... I don't remember the official name.  It was a brand-new Opera house and they wanted to fine tune the acoustics.  They needed a full house for that.  The tickets were free.  They did a variety of different types of performances.   Solos, choirs, big church bells, little bells, cannons, various instrumental only.  There was one that they announced would be quite long , i.e. around 10 minutes.  They asked that people find a comfortable spot on the seat because they didn't want people moving around, and to remove any children that couldn't sit still without a peep for that long.  When that piece was done people would be invited back in.  There was a baby making happy cooing noises!  Normally, there would be enough shifting around to cover that.  But with everyone else pretending to be statues, the baby noise was as obvious as the performance.  If I'd been in charge, I'd have stopped it.  Ejected those people from the building (not just the performance area) and started again.  They had been warned.  

[redsquirrel]

Children behaving inappropriately at various public performances, museums, field trips, etc., is just one more reason why we stopped doing anything with homeschool groups years ago.   And it isn't really the infants who are the problem.  It's the toddlers and preschoolers.  WAY too many mothers include their toddlers and preschoolers in activities that are not geared for their age group.  I've been on too many museum trips that were aimed for school aged children (third grade and above), and one or two moms decide that everybody in their family can participate.  It's worse than babies.  The toddler/preschool group can't sit still, run around the exhibit, touch what they're not supposed to, talk out loud, and interrupt in the middle of the guide's presentation to ask questions or make comments.  It is incredibly rude and renders the field trip useless for the age group for which it is intended.  And the moms seem to think it's adorable.  No.  It's not.  It's completely ill-mannered and thoughtless.  And trust me...no one thinks your kid is cute.  They think he's a brat.

 

And even taking little three year old Johnny or Suzy to the side while he or she is having a melt down and trying to explain to the child why he cannot reach up and touch the pretty flowers on the Monet is distracting.  Nobody else in the room can hear the guide over the child's wailing.  Galleries are not sound proof.  And you are not doing your child any favors by bringing him to something that is not suited for his age group.  If you have to take him to the Impressionist exhibit (and the museum allows it), do it as a family trip on a Saturday.  Don't ruin the exhibit for an entire group of children for whom it is age appropriate, and who are trying to learn something.  Please.

 

Rant over. :D

 

Point taken. But this a performance of Charlotte's Web at a "Children's Theater", not a guided tour of a Monet exhibition with a docent.

 

Do people generally take their kids to a children's theater production of Charlotte's Web and expect to settle back and see an emotionally challenging, nuanced production? I would be looking forward to some nice clean family entertainment and maybe seeing some friends while I was there. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few kids being taken to the bathroom during the performance, I would expect to hear a few whispered questions about the plot. If it were Charlotte's Web I would expect to see copies of the book and stuffed pigs for sale during intermission etc.

 

Would you be surprised to see children at a children's museum? What does your local children's science museum look like? I know at ours it is all very hands on with lots of noise and thinks to knock down and climb.

 

This is a children's theater that is putting on a performance of a children's play and they are forbidding all children under the age of 6. That seems a bit unreasonable to me. And it makes me think they don't understand their target audience. Most theaters are begging for an audience, any audience. This one claims to have funding problems (they all do) but instead of broadening their appeal and attempting to create a happy habit of attending the theater for entertainment they are pushing families to take their kids to the most convenient matinee movie. At least that way they can take all the kids.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

 

 That is why I take my dh to events that might be questionable. If they had been in a good mood though I wouldn't have any problem with them being there. I think there is value in them getting to see the pictures, even if they don't understand the details. It isn't like a speech when they don't understand the words, there is intrinsic beauty in art and music and as long as they aren't impeding anyone's else experience than I find it fine for them to be there if allowed. 

 

Very few homeschoolers have the option of taking dad along. My husband works from home and there's no way he could have done that-when he's working at home, he's working because he's in communication with clients during regular work hours most days.

 

When I was babywearing and nursing toddlers and using no non-parental care, I didn't got to public performances. I didn't take my kids to public performances until they were are the target audience range.  That was season of my life where I expected to live and do things differently than other seasons of my life. Missing out on theater until the age of 4 or 5 or 6 isn't going to ruin their love of the arts for the rest of their lives. There are plenty of way to expose them to the arts at home. 

 

The issue people have is wee ones making noise that impedes the ability of the target audience's experience-at a children's theater that target audience starts at about age 4 or 5 and goes up to higher elementary ages. At least ours does. Impeded experiences are in the eye of the beholder. Again, what one parent considers perfectly tolerable may be ridiculous to another.  I know several homeschooling families whose standards of acceptable behavior are nothing but chaos to me.  Others think I allow my kids to do things that are completely unacceptable.

 

Generally speaking, a crying infant is a very different thing than a five year old squirming and whispering loudly in a seat. Having to leave the performance and then returning after soothing a baby outside is more disruptive than the rustle and murmur of children because humans are designed to follow significant movement with their eyes.  Most seating is very cramped and having someone work her way out of the middle of the row with a crying infant is a pain in the neck. Loud children, even in the target audience range, should be removed immediately.

 

Where I come from, places that cater to opera, symphonies and stage performances (not the children's theater) do not allow people who left the performance to return.  The doors are locked to return traffic.  You can only open them from inside the performance venue.  Some have video and sound of the performance in the lobby for those who absolutely had to leave the performance.  There are no apologies or refunds issued for that.

[SKL]

Oh well, at least if you homeschool you can say your 4yo is in 1st grade.  :P

 

Just kidding!  Maybe....

[mommymilkies]

I am not beng snarky when I say I'm glad that worked out for you. I had one silent child- people thought my sling was a purse because there were no signs of baby noises, smells, etc. I had another child that NOTHING could silence.  NOTHING- not even to this day! She's is not and never was "bad", she is just noisy.  And messy. And smart. And fun. But even well-intentioned advice and methods bordering on abuse couldn't "fix" that, so we just didn't take her out to places where it would not be welcome. I was sad, and the older child had to miss a few things, or I sent her with another family. We made it work.

 

EDITING TO ADD! We never abused our child to keep her quiet- it was more of the advice given. Wasn't even going to try it.

:(  I had a brother like that.  He's 19 and not any better now.  :lol:  My kids are certainly not always angels.  Not even close.  It just took a lot of gentle teaching for them to be respectful at performances.  Three of my kids are musicians who have frequent recitals in loud auditoriums, professional competitions, etc.  And my dh is a musician.  Maybe it's our area, but I've had far more issues with adults and teens being rude and loud than children.  I can only think of twice when I had to walk out.  One was at a SWB talk and my LO wasn't "loud" but started to get squirmy and I knew it was coming.  I went to listen in the hall.  I totally cried.  I really wanted to see it.  People had been coming and going the whole time (which really annoys me-at least show up on time or keep quiet as you walk in and out), so I also felt like crud being one that had to walk out.  But better that than her be loud.  And another time when my LO was getting fussy at a HP movie, so I sat in the hall while she happily watched out the window for the next 90 mins. >.<

 

I have walked out of movies and performances for poor behavior, though.  Once to a midnight screening of HP and the teens there were SO loud.  Phones and lights going, yelling, talking.  I was so angry.  And another time when a concert attender tried to pee (!!) on me.  I was pregnant and obviously unhappy about that.  But I've also taken my kids to Rembrandt exhibits and Dead Sea Scrolls and it's never been an issue. As far as people walking out-I get annoyed when people constantly walk in front of me at a performance or use their phones or talk.  But walking out?  Not an issue.  Just part of being out in public.  Of course, I would like to see more graded seating so that poor average/short folks like me don't get sat behind people who are 7' tall and then can't see Madame Butterfly.  :crying:

[DianeW88]

Point taken. But this a performance of Charlotte's Web at a "Children's Theater", not a guided tour of a Monet exhibition with a docent.

 

Do people generally take their kids to a children's theater production of Charlotte's Web and expect to settle back and see an emotionally challenging, nuanced production? I would be looking forward to some nice clean family entertainment and maybe seeing some friends while I was there. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few kids being taken to the bathroom during the performance, I would expect to hear a few whispered questions about the plot. If it were Charlotte's Web I would expect to see copies of the book and stuffed pigs for sale during intermission etc.

 

Would you be surprised to see children at a children's museum? What does your local children's science museum look like? I know at ours it is all very hands on with lots of noise and thinks to knock down and climb.

 

This is a children's theater that is putting on a performance of a children's play and they are forbidding all children under the age of 6. That seems a bit unreasonable to me. And it makes me think they don't understand their target audience. Most theaters are begging for an audience, any audience. This one claims to have funding problems (they all do) but instead of broadening their appeal and attempting to create a happy habit of attending the theater for entertainment they are pushing families to take their kids to the most convenient matinee movie. At least that way they can take all the kids.

 

 

I was speaking in general terms, not really referring to a children's theater performance.  I would expect to see school age children at that, not necessarily younger.  At our children's theater, they have separate preschool performances.  I was mainly ranting about a trend I've seen among homeschoolers in general, who assume that because a certain age group of children are invited to attend something, they can extend that invitation to include all of their children, no matter their age.  I think doing that is rude and inconsiderate to the families who are only bringing appropriate age children.

 

[Soror]

Very few homeschoolers have the option of taking dad along. My husband works from home and there's no way he could have done that-when he's working at home, he's working because he's in communication with clients during regular work hours most days.

 

When I was babywearing and nursing toddlers and using no non-parental care, I didn't got to public performances. I didn't take my kids to public performances until they were are the target audience range.  That was season of my life where I expected to live and do things differently than other seasons of my life. Missing out on theater until the age of 4 or 5 or 6 isn't going to ruin their love of the arts for the rest of their lives. There are plenty of way to expose them to the arts at home. 

 

The issue people have is wee ones making noise that impedes the ability of the target audience's experience-at a children's theater that target audience starts at about age 4 or 5 and goes up to higher elementary ages. At least ours does. Impeded experiences are in the eye of the beholder. Again, what one parent considers perfectly tolerable may be ridiculous to another.  I know several homeschooling families whose standards of acceptable behavior are nothing but chaos to me.  Others think I allow my kids to do things that are completely unacceptable.

 

Generally speaking, a crying infant is a very different thing than a five year old squirming and whispering loudly in a seat. Having to leave the performance and then returning after soothing a baby outside is more disruptive than the rustle and murmur of children because humans are designed to follow significant movement with their eyes.  Most seating is very cramped and having someone work her way out of the middle of the row with a crying infant is a pain in the neck. Loud children, even in the target audience range, should be removed immediately.

 

Where I come from, places that cater to opera, symphonies and stage performances (not the children's theater) do not allow people who left the performance to return.  The doors are locked to return traffic.  You can only open them from inside the performance venue.  Some have video and sound of the performance in the lobby for those who absolutely had to leave the performance.  There are no apologies or refunds issued for that.

If my husband couldn't come to help then I wouldn't go. My husband has a limited number of vacation days and he usually uses a few every year to go with us to some of our events, to help me and also because we enjoy going as a family. It isn't my fault if others don't have that choice.We follow the rules wherever we go. IF we had to leave and re-entrance wasn't allowed then we wouldn't, no matter if it was a young kid who needed to go to the bathroom or a baby who was upset. 

 

Of course there are some things we aren't allowed to do or it just isn't feasible right now but the children's theatre and art museum where I live don't fall in the list of things we cannot do. 

 

Also, as you said not everyone has the same standard of behavior and different places have different rules. So, we all have to go by local rules and expectations. As I said the places where we went allowed all ages, so bringing in my children of all ages wasn't asking for special treatment or out of the norm for our area. 

[fdrinca]

:iagree:

 

The OP's story has changed dramatically from what she originally posted.

 

First, it was very specifically, "NO INFANTS ALLOWED," and now it's "children under first grade are absolutely prohibited." I find this very confusing, and quite frankly, it makes no sense at all. Why was she only concerned about infants not being permitted, when it is far more unusual that even kindergarten-age kids wouldn't be allowed to attend a performance of Charlotte's Web?

 

I hate it when the story changes in mid-thread. :glare:

 

I hope the OP will come back and clarify, because I feel like I'm missing something here.

 

Gladly :)

 

(And I'll point out that I quickly conceded that I was way off base in my outrage.)

 

The first email I received after sending totals was - all caps "NO INFANTS ALLOWED. We cannot permit this." This frustrated me for some of the reasons i expressed above (children's theater, younger-child aimed production, I haven't slept for 9 months, this changes my plans and I'm grumpy - reasons good and bad).

 

I asked for clarification on this policy, since it went against what another agent had told me, verbally, when I called to see if tickets still were available. I pointed out we were accustomed to attending as families, as per the policies of other local theaters. 

 

I received a second, clarifying email after my first post, in which the theater director explained that not only infants but anyone under first grade would not be admitted.

 

But before this point, without the ability to bring the baby, we couldn't attend. My oldest has health issues which makes it difficult for him to be left in the care of anyone else without training, and he's not exactly comfortable asking for help from others right now. Any other restriction the ticketing director could have imposed (ages, chaperones, etc.) would have been irrelevant.

 

So: two conversations, story changing in intensity as it happens, but I still stand by my basic tenet that it would be more welcoming to homeschooling families if all ages were able to attend. (Or, more pointedly, it would be more convenient for me.)

[stripe]

In the third trimester of my last pregnancy, I went alone to a presentation by my provider's group, leaving my husband with the older kids. I sat in the middle of a row, just ahead of a couple with a two or three year old in attendance (who sat down after I did), who talked the whole time and regularly kicked my seat. Instead of sitting on aisle seats, mind you. I thought one parent would take him out -- nope. The presentation was mostly about signs of labor and included a very happy but very detailed video about labor and birth that I thought was a bit much for my kids, so I was definitely glad my kids were not there. I found that annoying. Attending a children's theater event, I wouldn't really mind.

[unsinkable]

Oh well, at least if you homeschool you can say your 4yo is in 1st grade. :P

 

Just kidding! Maybe....

Hahahaha...NOT! I've lost track of the moms who say their 4 yo is a 1st grader because the kid is doing Spelling Workout A.

[Catwoman]

Gladly :)

 

(And I'll point out that I quickly conceded that I was way off base in my outrage.)

 

The first email I received after sending totals was - all caps "NO INFANTS ALLOWED. We cannot permit this." This frustrated me for some of the reasons i expressed above (children's theater, younger-child aimed production, I haven't slept for 9 months, this changes my plans and I'm grumpy - reasons good and bad).

 

I asked for clarification on this policy, since it went against what another agent had told me, verbally, when I called to see if tickets still were available. I pointed out we were accustomed to attending as families, as per the policies of other local theaters. 

 

I received a second, clarifying email after my first post, in which the theater director explained that not only infants but anyone under first grade would not be admitted.

 

But before this point, without the ability to bring the baby, we couldn't attend. My oldest has health issues which makes it difficult for him to be left in the care of anyone else without training, and he's not exactly comfortable asking for help from others right now. Any other restriction the ticketing director could have imposed (ages, chaperones, etc.) would have been irrelevant.

 

So: two conversations, story changing in intensity as it happens, but I still stand by my basic tenet that it would be more welcoming to homeschooling families if all ages were able to attend. (Or, more pointedly, it would be more convenient for me.)

OK -- now it's making more sense to me.

 

Thanks!!! :)

[brehon]

Gladly :)

 

(And I'll point out that I quickly conceded that I was way off base in my outrage.)

 

The first email I received after sending totals was - all caps "NO INFANTS ALLOWED. We cannot permit this." This frustrated me for some of the reasons i expressed above (children's theater, younger-child aimed production, I haven't slept for 9 months, this changes my plans and I'm grumpy - reasons good and bad).

 

I asked for clarification on this policy, since it went against what another agent had told me, verbally, when I called to see if tickets still were available. I pointed out we were accustomed to attending as families, as per the policies of other local theaters.

 

I received a second, clarifying email after my first post, in which the theater director explained that not only infants but anyone under first grade would not be admitted.

 

But before this point, without the ability to bring the baby, we couldn't attend. My oldest has health issues which makes it difficult for him to be left in the care of anyone else without training, and he's not exactly comfortable asking for help from others right now. Any other restriction the ticketing director could have imposed (ages, chaperones, etc.) would have been irrelevant.

 

So: two conversations, story changing in intensity as it happens, but I still stand by my basic tenet that it would be more welcoming to homeschooling families if all ages were able to attend. (Or, more pointedly, it would be more convenient for me.)

 

I understand. You might consider talking with the theatre director at some point about how he can make certain plays geared for children more accommodating to families (homeschooling or not) with younger children. This could have the benefit of introducing children to the theatre (& appropriate performance behavior) under conditions (i.e, a performance advertised specially for the K and under ages) more appropriate to a younger crowd, increasing theatre attendance, and increasing a fundraising base and volunteers. You know, a you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, win-win type situation.

[Jenny in Florida]

Point taken. But this a performance of Charlotte's Web at a "Children's Theater", not a guided tour of a Monet exhibition with a docent.

 

Do people generally take their kids to a children's theater production of Charlotte's Web and expect to settle back and see an emotionally challenging, nuanced production? I would be looking forward to some nice clean family entertainment and maybe seeing some friends while I was there. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few kids being taken to the bathroom during the performance, I would expect to hear a few whispered questions about the plot. If it were Charlotte's Web I would expect to see copies of the book and stuffed pigs for sale during intermission etc.

 

Well, I can tell you that my kids, at age six, would have expected to be able to sit quietly and hear and enjoy the production, yes. They would have read the book before seeing the show and wouldn't need the plot explained to them. And they would have used the restroom before the curtain rose and understood that they would need to wait until intermission to go again.

 

They would have been -- and were -- irritated by other children not behaving themselves appropriately for attending a live theatrical performance.

 

Again, it's why my kids insisted I quit arranging field trips to the local children's theatre and to the school matinees of the Shakespeare theatre productions. They simply didn't want to be in a theatre with a bunch of other kids. Instead, we started buying season tickets for the regular, mainstage performances once each of our kids turned six. I'll admit that we had our share of fellow audience members, usually older folks, pointedly raise eyebrows when they saw my kids enter the theatre. However, the only comments we've ever had have been compliments on how pleasantly surprised said fellow audience members were by how quiet and engaged our kids were. (Funny story: Following one performance of a Shakespearean play, my daughter was approached and invited to apply to a local private school by an administrator who observed her watching and enjoying the play. He was, apparently, very disappointed to hear we were homeschooling and had no plans to change that.)

 

I guess I would also, yes, expect to see a high quality production with nuanced performances. I don't personally believe we need to pander to children in order to teach them to enjoy live theatre. If you want pleasant, fluffy, family-friendly shows during which it's okay to go to the bathroom, I'm thinking the Saturday matinee at your local movie theatre would be a more appropriate venue.

[redsquirrel]

nm 

 

Edited February 24, 2014 by Moderator
Well, that was unnecessary.

[SKL]

I'm pretty sure my kids were 3 the last time I took them to an actual "children's performance."  But I don't blame others for thinking that it's OK for children to act like children at a children's performance.

[mathnerd]

I hate babies screaming during spelling bees, piano recitals, movies (pg13), in public reading rooms and theaters and plays. I stayed away from all these venues when my child was a baby on purpose because I hate to be a nuisance. But, all the moms (I never see the dads) that bring in infants despite a big notice about babies not allowed in these venues are the slowest to walk out when the crying starts (just yesterday, there were 2 crying babies in a math contest that my son attended - despite all families getting a written notice that anyone below 3 years is not allowed in the venue because they make the participants lose focus). These moms try to control the situation and hope that the baby will calm down before deciding to walk out. I even have a DVD of my son's first public piano recital with a screaming baby in the background.

My DH and I share babysitting duties. One of us stayed outside with the baby when the other had to go into one of these venues. I remember one visit to an upscale restaurant where I ordered for the both of us, I ate first all alone while DH waited outside with the baby and then I switched with him. If it was impossible to share the babysitting, we stayed away.

The OP should organize a group of homeschooling parents who could chaperone the kids whose parents have infants to take care of.

[bettyandbob]

There is nothing wrong with going to a theatre performance, even ones geared to school aged audiences and expecting appropriate theatre behavior from other audience members.

I have always expected quiet from my dc at children's theatre performances. They knew if they didn't behave we'd leave.

[QueenCat]

Children behaving inappropriately at various public performances, museums, field trips, etc., is just one more reason why we stopped doing anything with homeschool groups years ago.   And it isn't really the infants who are the problem.  It's the toddlers and preschoolers.  WAY too many mothers include their toddlers and preschoolers in activities that are not geared for their age group.  I've been on too many museum trips that were aimed for school aged children (third grade and above), and one or two moms decide that everybody in their family can participate.  It's worse than babies.  The toddler/preschool group can't sit still, run around the exhibit, touch what they're not supposed to, talk out loud, and interrupt in the middle of the guide's presentation to ask questions or make comments.  It is incredibly rude and renders the field trip useless for the age group for which it is intended.  And the moms seem to think it's adorable.  No.  It's not.  It's completely ill-mannered and thoughtless.  And trust me...no one thinks your kid is cute.  They think he's a brat.

 

And even taking little three year old Johnny or Suzy to the side while he or she is having a melt down and trying to explain to the child why he cannot reach up and touch the pretty flowers on the Monet is distracting.  Nobody else in the room can hear the guide over the child's wailing.  Galleries are not sound proof.  And you are not doing your child any favors by bringing him to something that is not suited for his age group.  If you have to take him to the Impressionist exhibit (and the museum allows it), do it as a family trip on a Saturday.  Don't ruin the exhibit for an entire group of children for whom it is age appropriate, and who are trying to learn something.  Please.

 

Rant over. :D

 

This reminded me of something......... there are two venues in our area that stopped allowing homeschool groups to sign up for group field trips due to behavior issues. I was there for one venue's LAST homeschool group. Children just did not get that they really couldn't RUN through the museum or TOUCH the exhibits. They were from two families, whom ruined it for many more to come. The field trip coordinator said it was that way every time they had a homeschool group, and that they were done with homeschoolers. Really didn't help the reputation of homeschoolers in our area!

 

[shukriyya]

Nm.

 

My post didn't really pertain to the OPs question.