S/o hotel room alone

[bettyandbob]

Whenever we have a topic like this there are two camps. One group seems to give varying levels of independent responsibility and the other says never ever. This is true whether it's stay home alone, go in store alone, stay in hotel room, walk to activity without parent supervision, etc.

 

I am wondering what happens when a child becomes an adult. If the child has not had the opportunity to gradually navigate situations independently , I don't see how they have the skills needed to assess a variety of situations a young adult could find herself in. Plus, I imagine a level of visible anxiety the young adult could have that would make him/her an obvious target for random crime. I think (I might be wrong) persons who develop skills given small independent activities that are gradually increased will be less likely to exhibited the visible anxiety that makes a person appear to be a good target.

 

Consider a situation many young adults find themselves in: being alone at night needing to get to car or public transit in the dark after work or a late class. I imagine the young adult who has done very little without parental supervision is more likely to look like a target just because he lacks experience navigating things alone. This is not to say I advocate leaving dc to walk home alone at night. I think opportunities like walking home with a friend and not a parent during the day help the child build the skill level to deal with situation he may find when he's on his own. As would staying home alone or being in a hotel room alone.

 

Whether dealing getting home in the dark or figuring out how to get something fixed, I'm hoping my dc can figure this stuff out without me.

 

So, if you advocate restricting activities your dc does without adult presence, what happens when your dc become adults. Do they go away to college? Do they live at home and go to college -- what happens when they have night classes? Do they join the military? What sort of work do they do?

 

What sort of transition to adult level independence do you facilitate.

[KungFuPanda]

Some things just aren't that hard. I was never in a hotel room alone until I was 18, on my own, and traveling solo. It wasn't difficult to figure out. Every young adult is going to face something they didn't prepare for. I think it comes down to adaptability. Some people are naturally capable and some are anxiety-ridden no matter how much prep they've had.

[creekland]

 Some people are naturally capable and some are anxiety-ridden no matter how much prep they've had.

 

I think it's this no matter how one is brought up.

 

I've been independent since birth and my kids are the same way.  I can't fathom things any other way.  I suspect the opposite genetics have similar feelings about it - just at the other end of the spectrum.

 

I suppose conflicts occur when you get an independent kid with a protective parent or vice versa, but fortunately, that didn't happen with our genetics.  If I had been born into a protective family or culture I wouldn't have done well...my first memories are filled with things I did supporting my independent nature.  It'd have driven protective parents crazy - or caused them to have me stoned.  ;)

 

[Carrie12345]

Not all scenarios are going to be covered from birth to 18. Things learned in one area will be applied to another.

I never stepped foot in an airport until I flew with another friend who had never flown. We were 16 and survived.  I went off to college having never toured the place, never done my own laundry start to finish, never used a hot plate, and never not had a curfew, and survived.  I played hooky from school to explore NYC starting at 15, even though my only supervised experience was with busses that had taken us directly to Broadway, and survived.

 

In exactly how many things to I have to directly instruct my kids? Because I'm already overwhelmed, tyvm! ;-p

[ChristusG]

It's just easy. When I got married at 19, I had never done my own laundry or cooked a meal. I easily figured it out. And with safety issues, like the hotel thing, I talk about those things constantly while raising them. They'll know what to do.

[Ottakee]

I don't think it is teaching specific skills as much as it teaching awareness, problem solving, confidence, etc. needed to handle various situations.  Giving kids the tools and freedom to do some exploring, try new things, make some mistakes, take some risks, etc. while they are still at home to have your guidance, help, etc. 

 

I think the OP is talking more about a philosophy of parenting rather than specific skills---------helicopter parenting vs. free range parenting........or finding that happy middle.

[bettyandbob]

My point isn't that you directly instruct. That would be impossible. I had opportunities to do things unsupervised throughout childhood. In fact I was expected to do stuff on my own. I think the gradual building of experiences made the transition to figuring it all out as a young adult pretty seamless. It is exactly the random independent experiences I had that gave me the background for negotiating new situations in different environments. I'm trying to make sure my own kids have multiple to negotiate things independently. The more they do the more will be in their toolbox to apply to something new.

 

What happens to the young adult who has never been expected to do stuff on his own. I imagine those with naturally independent personalities will have had very rocky teen years. Some may even leave home completely at the magic age of 18. But even if you've longed to be independent,if this trait has been suppressed how well do you do? And if a child is not naturally independent how long into adulthood do they keep looking back at mom and dad?

[Jane in NC]

Because my son grew up in a rural area, he did not have regular access to mass transit.  Even though the Boston T or the London Tube have clear maps, I would not expect my teen to know how to buy the ticket, read the map, change lines, etc. without a bit of initial guidance.  We made a point of utilizing mass transit when traveling and having our son select the routes.  London is now his second home--or maybe third home after his college town.  Perhaps he would have figured it all out on his own but having some skill sets in place can certainly add to a confidence level.

 

We are in the Creekland end of the spectrum with an independent nature. I cannot imagine not letting my kid go off on his bike at age ten or twelve.  And I have never expected a constant stream of texts.  So perhaps with the independent nature is a level of trust that some of us feel not only with our kids but with our communities.

[Ottakee]

I know sometimes kids under 18 party in hotels, but someone over 18 had to check them in because I don't know of any hotel that would allow kids under 18 to even check in.  So if something happens, that adult who checked them in could potentially get in trouble. 

 

Or in the case of our former foster daughter, you just get a fake ID. She was doing this regularly at 16.  Got her into the casinos, hotels, and a boat load of trouble.

[kroe1]

I keep an iron glove around my kiddos until they jump out of my wallet. The first is now an ER physician. It does not take a rocket scientist to learn how to walk into a store alone after watching mommy for 25 years.

[Erin]

The older I get, the more this seems urban/rural...  

 

Rural kids are expected to be more mature(? reliable?) at a younger age.  That is, they are expected to do a lot of chores and pull their weight at a young age.  Given proximately to town/school/work, they are driving at younger ages.  And so on.

 

My kids learned to drive when they were about 3, so they could drive while Dad tossed mineral or cake or whatever out of the back of the pickup.  Buck has been working for friends and neighbors since he was about 10.  At that age it was fixing fence here, or helping move cows or some such every few months.  Now that he's 14, it's driving a payloader, trailing cows a number of miles, or mowing hay every week or two.  Bean is happier doing Mom-stuff like babysitting or keeping house, but she can also go out and hook up the stock trailer if needs be or feed livestock, etc, etc.

 

 

I went to college at a small, rural school and I vividly remember noticing the difference.  

Those of us who'd grown up in town tended to be a little less sure of ourselves and our capabilities.  The farm and ranch kids were usually quite independent and confident.   It equalled out as time went by so by senior year it was hard to tell anymore, who was who.  But it was very obvious as freshmen...

 

 

BTW, I realize those of you who don't have a significant, rural presence in your area for comparison won't really understand what I'm talking about.  

[Χά�ων]

I have DS off at professional sports events and plant to do it again. His first time was a year ago at age 9. He was with a friend and knew almost everyone there so it may not count. He will go to a different venue in the next couple of months by himself. He bought the ticket, I am dropping him off and picking him up. He has stayed home alone nlfrom the age of 9 as needed. I taught him to drive when we bought our property at age 7. He drives regularly now. I leave him at the gym to run errands. I send him in to the store with a list and cash. When we chill at my grandmas he can go to the store or library or park. I do not hink it is a big deal.

[Χά�ων]

Dumb phone. Tonight when I get to a computer I will correct. Until then enjoy my many errors....

[dirty ethel rackham]

I also see a difference in between urban and suburban kids.  Urban kids have plenty of opportunities for getting around using public transporation and running errands because there is much more in their neighborhood to do.  In many suburbs, you really can't get around without a car.  Public transportation is mostly geared towards commuters' needs, as it is assumed that everyone has a car to everything else.  Much of the suburb in which we live is like that.  However, we chose our neighborhood for its walkability and proximity to much of what they would want to do.  If we had moved a mile south, my kids would have to cross a 50 mph street where at least 2-3 adults die crossing every year.  That would have limited their independence (at least they recently built an underpass for bicyclists.)  But, my kids never had friends close enough to just go see.   They were always a car ride away as there was no safe bike travel. 

 

My 20 yo son only recently had to purchase his own train ticket into the city so that he could take AmTrak back to college.  He had never done that on his own as there just hadn't been a need or opportunities to do so.  Dd is getting an education on public transportation since she switched climbing teams to one in the city and has done some social activities with them after practice.  This suburban mom had to take a chill pill and trust that she was with some savvy people who would help her learn to stay safe, more than I could have done for her. 

[Ottakee]

Erin---I see that too.  My brother was driving a double hay wagon down the road before he was 12 for a neighbor and now it is very iffy if you can leave a 12 year old home alone for 1-2 hours.  At 9 I was babysitting for the neighbor for short periods of time----a 1 year old and a newborn and at 11 I had a newborn 40 hours a week in the summer while her mom worked (and even more with weekends).

 

I understand safety concerns but I hate that so many new regulations make it so hard for kids to get jobs on farms in our area now.

[SKL]

The specific skills are easy to learn.  However, learning to trust oneself to figure out a new situation and solve unexpected problems can be taught or hindered.  I do agree that even that is natural to some extent, but if I have a child who tends to be more anxious, then I view it as my job to show her, early and often, that she can do things independently, she can be alone and survive, she can navigate through difficulties and come out better at the end.

 

I imagine that there are ways to do this while still supervising your kids.  However, the other side of it is that the supervision is not needed to the extent some people insist on it.  If the child knows you feel it necessary to be with or watching him all the time, he may believe there is something lacking in him that necessitates that.  But even if that doesn't happen - why do more than is necessary?  It doesn't make sense to me.

 

Risks - they exist whether or not you're with your kid.  All of my kids' worst accidents have happened while I was right there.  The idea that we can protect our kids from the world they live in is a fantasy - and not a healthy one in my opinion.

[Catwoman]

I think there is a big difference in keeping your kids safe and turning them into anxiety-ridden, fearful lunatics who see danger around every corner.

 

You can be cautious and teach your kids how to be safe in a matter-of-fact way by modeling how to behave in a wide variety of situations, without instilling tremendous fear at the same time.

 

I am still very concerned about my son's safety, but most of the time he probably has no clue that I'm even thinking about it.

 

In terms of the hotel example, my ds doesn't need to be in a room alone in order to know how things work when you stay at a hotel. He has been learning by example for years. I think that is the same with most situations.

[Sun]

Now I'm really confused. A lot of people seem to be saying these skills aren't hard at all, so their kids will learn them easily when they're 18. If the skills are that easy, then why do the kids need to be protected from practicing them before 18?

[FaithManor]

I think very much along the line of Creekland and Jane.

 

As a college freshman, the coddled kids made us independent students a little crazy. We had signs up in the lounge, the shared kitchen, the laundry facilities, on the hallways, etc. and this is what they said, "Your mamma doesn't live here anymore. Take care of yourself." Often, the ones that were the most sheltered, dropped out after a couple of weeks of classes, a few made it to the end of the semester and went home. I think in some cases personality, regardless of upbringing, may have been at work there so I can't draw any hard and fast conclusions, I will say that my roommate and the gal across the hall described absolute sheltering at home, and yikes...these girls had baby minds. I mean they were seriously not ready to let go of mommy's hand. My roommate cried herself to sleep the first night, and the next day asked me if I would walk her to her classes! I'm going to be frank here too. I think a lot may have had to do with the amount of responsibility at home. Kids who haven't had to take responsibility for themselves or someone else, have some chores that they must step up to the plate to do, etc., forget laundry...they can learn to do the laundry. It's the being responsible part...those kinds of kids, where mamma did everything were every bit as bad as the ones that never left mamma's sight before leaving for school, and probably worse. Some of them were even upset that the RA did not wake them up for classes, or that the professors did not remind them to do their work!!!

 

This is the kind of "adult" I definitely do not want to raise. I also do not want kids who are like the parents of one of our rocket team members. Terrified to buy a train ticket, terrified to drive on the interstate, terrified to be on the train, terrified to walk down the street to the Smithsonian in broad daylight and who feels they are totally vulnerable in the heart of the nation's capitol because they aren't carrying concealed weapons, teaching their daughter that every man she isn't related to is absolutely a rapist (despite that fact that statistics show she has far more to fear from her relatives than from total strangers), and afraid to ask a uniformed guard at the Air and Space for directions...yes, you got that right, parents of four and scared to talk to the security guard...BOTH parents.  Nope, that is definitely not how I want to raise my kids. I am sure, given this is the WTM board and most parents here spend a tremendous amount of time on the educational boards talking about how to teach their kids to think, reason, problem solve, that this is not how any of you are raising your kids. But, man, when you see it first hand, it's kind of scary so that's why I mention it here. Don't let fear be your ultimate motivator for how you raise your children.

 

And yes Erin, when I was in college, the freshman who did the best that first semester did seem to be the kids raised in rural environments, the inner city, or foreign locales. I hate to say it, but my experience with suburban and larger town raised kids was not great - inner city kids had serious street savvy and knew how to take care of themselves. Still, that's entirely anecdotal, certainly not anything one can draw any major conclusions from, and of course, again totally dependent on the personality of the individual and of course, the parents. I'm pretty certain that many a suburban/town parent has raised confident adults! Generalizations can't be made other than to just provide individual insights that we can all take as a whole picture and either discard if we feel they have no value, or gain wisdom depending on the situation and the individual kid.

[Sarah CB]

 Some people are naturally capable and some are anxiety-ridden no matter how much prep they've had.

 

And some people are prepped to be anxiety ridden.  I think all the fear based decisions create fear.

[Farmgirl70]

I think the important thing is not every micro-decision--parents may vary on when to leave kids home alone or in a hotel room.  However, I do think it is important for kids to learn responsibility and confidence in their own abilities to be independent in some constant ways as they grow.  When our daughter was 13 or 14, she made friends with some girls who lived about 30 minutes away from us.  After a while, we had her take a commuter train to the other girls' towns, where she was met by their parents and brought to their house.  She made this trek during the day and the stations she arrived at seemed safe enough to me.  She did not have a cell phone.  One day, the mother on the other end had locked her keys in her car and was 20 minutes late to pick my daughter up.  The mother was mortified and apologetic.  It was fine, though.  It was a very safe way for my daughter to figure out what to do when things don't go as planned.  She waited and then walked to a nearby shop to wait until the other mother arrived.  If she had been much longer, my daughter would've asked to use a phone and call me.  No harm done.  I think these sorts of experiences lend growing people confidence that they can be in a new experience and figure out what to do.  It also lets them know that, while there may be unsafe people out there, there are also many helpful and kind people, too!

 

(BTW, we live in an urban area and we've always talked a lot about options, who we can talk to if we need help, and reading safety cues.  When my kids were 9 or 10, they started walking to the library alone.  I trailed them by a block the first few times just to see how the people on the street reacted to them.  Also talked to the librarian about the typical age kids start coming by themselves.  She said middle school age.)

 

[Farrar]

The older I get, the more this seems urban/rural...  

 

Rural kids are expected to be more mature(? reliable?) at a younger age.  

 

I see what you're saying, but living in an urban area, I see a lot more of people giving kids a longer leash than in the suburbs.  Kids here take public transit on their own, walk to the store, walk to the park, walk to school and afternoon activities (or take the bus - there's no public school bussing except for for children with disabilities).  I regularly see fifth graders and middle schoolers "pick up" their pre-K and K aged siblings and cousins from school to walk home.  When I've talked about my 9 yos going out in the middle of the day to the store, sometimes people tell me they would worry someone would call CPS for that - two kids out alone in the middle of the day, looking at toys in Target or something.  But the truth is that there are tons of kids out all the time here.

 

It's obviously a different type of freedom from something like farm chores though.

 

I think the set up of some of the sprawling suburbs (not all) makes it harder in some ways to give kids more freedom and responsibility.  It's harder to let them get around at a young age (fewer sidewalks, less public transit, but also less open space to explore alone).  There aren't built in chores like in the country.  And oftentimes the culture is more fearful about giving kids more freedom, making it harder.

 

But it's all overgeneralizations...  I'm sure there are some kids in the country who have very little responsibility, some city kids who never take a bus, and some suburban kids with lots of chores who ride their bikes everywhere alone.

[Trish]

I have DS off at professional sports events and plant to do it again. His first time was a year ago at age 9. He was with a friend and knew almost everyone there so it may not count. He will go to a different venue in the next couple of months by himself. He bought the ticket, I am dropping him off and picking him up. He has stayed home alone nlfrom the age of 9 as needed. I taught him to drive when we bought our property at age 7. He drives regularly now. I leave him at the gym to run errands. I send him in to the store with a list and cash. When we chill at my grandmas he can go to the store or library or park. I do not hink it is a big deal.

 

He's going to a sporting event by himself at age 10? Like a pro basketball game or something?

 

I guess I find this at the extreme end of the bell curve, along with 4-year-olds alone in hotel rooms.

 

 

[Bootsie]

When we have traveled internationally, my children have been struck by how much more independent the children in other countries are.  For example, we were in Austria and my son wanted to take a kendo class.  The other boys in the class arrived at the community center by themselves.  The oldest in the group was 12--most were about 9-10 years old.  They took public transportation, went into the locker room, were ready for the class, and then got themselves home.  There was one teacher with the group--no helicopter parents--no parents worried about what would happen in the locker room, no parents worried about whether they could cross the street, no parents worried there for fear that their child would be abducted, etc.  

[MomatHWTK]

I think the initial inquiry presupposes that only first-hand trial and error will allow for learning and that those who don't permit this type of drop from the nest and learn to fly experience are not teaching their children any life skills.  This is a faulty initial premise.

[Χά�ων]

He's going to a sporting event by himself at age 10? Like a pro basketball game or something?

 

I guess I find this at the extreme end of the bell curve, along with 4-year-olds alone in hotel rooms.

Or something since we are no where a basketball team and yes he is. He even bought the ticket with his own money.

[Trish]

Now I'm really confused. A lot of people seem to be saying these skills aren't hard at all, so their kids will learn them easily when they're 18. If the skills are that easy, then why do the kids need to be protected from practicing them before 18?

 

Maybe the difference between molesting a 10-year-old in a restroom vs molesting an 18-year-old. Size, strength, judgment. Whether or not you *appear* to be a target to a predator.

 

Ages 10 and below my boys never went to a public restroom without an adult for the reasons stated above. Between ages 10 and 14 they always had to go *together* or with another child. (buddy system) Now I have a high schooler and he can go alone.

 

I don't think an incremental approach means a climate of fear. I buckle up each day out of fear of what would happen if I got in an accident and got bounced around the interior of my car or ejected if I didn't have my seatbelt on. Then I don't give it another thought. So I don't equate taking reasonable precautions with *climate of fear."

 

Just read an interesting one about a woman who was attacked in her hotel room. Seems an employee of the hotel hid in her room, so when she returned from (wherever) he was able to attack. I understand this is statistically unlikely. But I guess I always imagined hotel attacks coming from OUTSIDE the room, you know, someone knocking, or trying to get in if the safety latch wasn't on. Didn't occur to me to check the room UPON returning.

 

This means it's probably NOT safe to just send your teen/pre-teen "back to the room" unless they're going in pairs, or a parent comes along to check it out. I hadn't really given that much thought before reading the article.

 

As a parent, I can't really comfort myself with the thought that, "gee, THAT was statistically unlikely" if it's a precaution I could've reasonably taken. i.e. Perhaps it wouldn't be as convenient for me to go up to the room with my teen and make sure everything's okay before going off to do whatever, but there's no reason I couldn't do it. And there's no added *skill* the teen is gaining by me NOT taking that precaution. (unless they get to try out any self defense skills, of course)

 

 

 

[swellmomma]

You make the false assumption that just because 1 situation is a no, that all are.  I posted in that thread I don't leave my kids alone in a hotel room, yet they go to excursions without me, navigate walking around on their own, if we lived in a community with public transportation they would utilize that on their own etc.  Feeling that a particular situation is not okay for my family does not mean my kids will never be able to navigate adult life.  I have never travelled, or stayed in a hotel alone etc in my 36 years of life, I can't say that has left me too sheltered to function. My kids do not need to experience absolutely everything before 18 to be functional adults imo Somethings are fine to leave until 17 or 18 or older and the child still grow up with enough common sense to be fine when the situation arises in adulthood

[swellmomma]

I have DS off at professional sports events and plant to do it again. His first time was a year ago at age 9. He was with a friend and knew almost everyone there so it may not count. He will go to a different venue in the next couple of months by himself. He bought the ticket, I am dropping him off and picking him up. He has stayed home alone nlfrom the age of 9 as needed. I taught him to drive when we bought our property at age 7. He drives regularly now. I leave him at the gym to run errands. I send him in to the store with a list and cash. When we chill at my grandmas he can go to the store or library or park. I do not hink it is a big deal.

home alone at 9, driving at 7 or even 10, dropping off unsupervised etc around here is illegal in some cases and grounds for CPS involvement in nearly all.  A child left unsupervised at a major event would result in police being called, same with driving at that age.  being left home alone is more a grey area, which would result in an investigation but nothing further unless there was other circumstances.  Intentionally putting your kid at risk is much different than teaching them life skills, it is purely negligent.

[catz]

I think very much along the line of Creekland and Jane.

 

As a college freshman, the coddled kids made us independent students a little crazy. We had signs up in the lounge, the shared kitchen, the laundry facilities, on the hallways, etc. and this is what they said, "Your mamma doesn't live here anymore. Take care of yourself." Often, the ones that were the most sheltered, dropped out after a couple of weeks of classes, a few made it to the end of the semester and went home.

I personally saw quite a bit of this in my own college. I never gave dropping out a thought, but a significant percentage of kids in my freshman class did, and usually not due to academic issues.

 

I thought the urban/suburban thoughts were interesting. There have been other threads that have come up about leaving kids in my car. I'd have no problem with my 13 & 9 year old walking our urban neighborhood during day light hours, going to the park alone. Public transit is on the horizon for my newly 13 year old. However, I have never left either kid in the car in a parking lot (or at least more than like 2 minutes if I'm running in somewhere steps from where my car is where I can see them). My 13 yo is small for age. That seems way riskier than 2 kids in a locked hotel room for an hour while I'm onsite to me. It's just not done here. Someone would call the cops, someone working at Target would put the alerts over their speaker system, etc.

 

My other thought was if I had ONE child, I'd be less likely to want to leave them in a hotel room alone. Maybe that's quirky, but that's true. I actually leave my 13 year old at home regularly, but I have not left the 9 year old with him yet. I actually intend to start allowing this while I go for a jog within a mile of our house as weather allows. That's more due to some personality quirks of my 9 year old and really nothing else. I did not yet allow my oldest to stay home at 9 alone, but for 15 minute errands starting at 10, yes.

 

I had a discussion with a mom this week about a teen co-op my oldest attends. She is NOT ok with her similarly aged child to stay at this co-op alone. All the teachers are adults, kids are always in groups in certain areas, there are volunteer parents as monitors every week. I drop my kid at the door for a half a day. Her child is there for one class and she sits in the entire time. She said she's not comfortable with the behavoir of a couple teens. There are a couple obnoxious teens there, but I want my kid to navigate some different personalities and social situations. If MY kid were causing problems or not handling this situation well, I would pull him. I have had a discussion with him about what my expectations for HIM are in this situation. 5 years to college will go fast. I'm pretty sure she thinks I'm nuts, but I'm pretty sure I think she's nuts. ;) She's actually a mom I love dearly.

 

I think kids having confidence to solve problems are really where it is at. Of course you cannot simulate every experience before age 18. But I do try to put my kids in situations where they need to make decisions. It's good to experience success and failure.

 

I don't meant to spam the group since I posted this on another thread, but this article that I saw yesterday is relevant to this discussion. And the author does not mean "leaders" in terms of career choice necessarily. More in terms of taking charge of their own lives as adults.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathycaprino/2014/01/16/7-crippling-parenting-behaviors-that-keep-children-from-growing-into-leaders/

 

ETA - I have another friend who has left her kids at home from age 8 and at the same age allowed them to walk our neighborhood alone and cross streets my kids haven't crossed now alone. One of her kids at 8 was the size of my then 6 year old. So there are extremes on both ends. I think this is something families have to balance based on their own expectations, experiences, and kid's personalities. There is no one size fits all.

[Farrar]

home alone at 9, driving at 7 or even 10, dropping off unsupervised etc around here is illegal in some cases and grounds for CPS involvement in nearly all.  A child left unsupervised at a major event would result in police being called, same with driving at that age.  being left home alone is more a grey area, which would result in an investigation but nothing further unless there was other circumstances.  Intentionally putting your kid at risk is much different than teaching them life skills, it is purely negligent.

 

Intentionally putting your kids at risk?  Sigh.  Maybe this is inevitably a mommy wars question, but can we all just assume that we're making the best intentioned decisions for our kids?  I find people who refuse to leave teenagers alone for a short time trying, I think they're making a parenting mistake, but from a place of love and caring and I wouldn't call them negligent.

 

The CPS thing and the law really are not the case everywhere.  Definitely not here, where the law gives the power to parents to make those calls.  It's common for kids to be left home alone by age 7 or 8 here for short periods.

[mommymilkies]

I'm all for teaching independence.  I was pretty much entirely on my own from middle school up, so I wouldn't go that far.  But dh was pretty sheltered and had no chores.  It took until he was more than 30 before he figured out how to do laundry (kind of), wipe down counters, heck even call the insurance company or make an eye doctor appointment.  No way will I let my kids get to adulthood without knowing these sorts of things. 

[SKL]

 

Just read an interesting one about a woman who was attacked in her hotel room. Seems an employee of the hotel hid in her room, so when she returned from (wherever) he was able to attack. I understand this is statistically unlikely. But I guess I always imagined hotel attacks coming from OUTSIDE the room, you know, someone knocking, or trying to get in if the safety latch wasn't on. Didn't occur to me to check the room UPON returning.

 

This means it's probably NOT safe to just send your teen/pre-teen "back to the room" unless they're going in pairs, or a parent comes along to check it out.

 

No, it does not mean it's probably not safe.

 

Unless you are looking for a 100.00000% level of safety.  In which case it's hopeless, because I could easily list hundreds of things that could happen to your kid even if you held his hand 24/7.

 

There are kids stolen from their beds at home.  Does this mean it's probably not safe to send your kids to bed at bedtime?  Or are you saying you can live with a lower level of safety in your own home than anywhere else?

 

I view hotels as extremely safe places generally.  (We stay in nice ones.)  I mean, they have sprinklers, multiple mega door locks, peep holes, lots of trustworthy people within earshot, fire extinguishers and fire escapes, cameras, frequent safety inspections, a valuable image to uphold, etc.  I don't have any of that at my house, and yet nobody seems to think I should be scared for my kids here.  So therefore, I shouldn't be scared in a hotel either.

 

Maybe it's because I don't watch enough TV and horror movies...

 

[Livelovelearn]

I often wonder WHY you want your children to have to go through all their new experiences once they have flown the nest. Surely your child isn't going to magically become safe, unattractive or responsible just because they have legally became an adult? So why not allow them to do things as they show they are emotionally capable no matter what age they are? At least this way you have more control as a parent to teach. It's not that you can't learn later on but why would you want to leave all these learning experiences until later on?

[Farrar]

Uh yeah.  I don't think most of us have to learn about the realities of gravity by jumping off of a roof.

 

No.  But you might understand it better if someone watched as you chucked stuff off and saw it smash.  As in, if you have some experience observing what happens before making the decisions yourself.

 

The reason I give my kids more freedom now is so I can watch them make mistakes and then help them.  The stakes simply aren't high now.  They're young.  They still listen to me, miracle of miracles!  I still hold the purse strings and the power.  It won't always be so.

 

I think there are lots of ways to let kids practice independence.  And many times when there is a thread like the hotel room one, then it seems like there are two camps, when actually some people just feel a particular danger about the specific situation or have other ways to let kids practice freedom and independence in other ways.  But occasionally there are people who talk about never letting their 16 or 17 yo out of their sight, never letting them spend a night away, even with relatives, never letting them out alone to do anything.  And then, honestly, it does feel like they're setting a child up for trouble, though I hope things like that are rare.

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't think I fit any particular pattern.  And isn't that typical of homeschoolers?  We think everything through, a ton.  We analyze.  We make case by case decisions.

 

So, for instance, I started encouraging DD to range around downtown at about age 14, to the absolute horror of just about everyone else we knew.  But by then we had been there together a lot, and I had taught her how to look for help, how to walk by trouble, and how to avoid it.  Was that a sure thing?  No, but pretty darn close.

 

I also let her go to a sleepover summer camp by herself when she was 9.  Again, this was a place we had been to together and where I knew the people who ran the camp, somewhat personally.  And, this being key, she was comfortable and wanted to go.  And when she was that age I also let her go on an overnight campout as part of a marine science daycamp.  I know people who did not let their kids go to sleepover camps until they were in high school.  WE WERE BOTH RIGHT.  They didn't know the players and locations like I did, and they were being careful.  I did know the players and the location, and I was being careful, too.

 

I won't let her go to San Francisco by herself, though, even though she is 17.  She is just not mindful enough of her personal safety in a place where as a young woman she needs to watch out for muggers and such.  She is not urban enough to be reasonably watchful.  But I do let her go with others her age who are more careful, as long as they stick together, and in another few months she will be ready to do this on her own.  She has many friends who think we are the meanest parents ever, and horribly overprotective.  She has friends who live up there who have been doing this by themselves since they were around 11.  But she hasn't been ready.  The key is to decide these things situationally.

 

DH and I left her in a hotel room at a resort for one evening when she was 10, because we had an award dinner to attend.  We showed her how to call us, we showed her how to leave if there was a fire, we showed her how to bolt the door, and we told her not to open the door for any reason, no matter who knocked, unless the fire alarm was going off or we did our special secret code knock.  She was totally ready for this BECAUSE WE PREPARED HER and because we knew we could trust her.  If she had been scared we wouldn't have made her do it.  If she had had a friend with her, at that age, we would not have done it because she would forget everything we ever told her whenever she was with a friend. 

 

Bottom line:  know your child, know the situation, make case by case decisions, and don't feel like you have to fit some other people's pattern.

[Catwoman]

I often wonder WHY you want your children to have to go through all their new experiences once they have flown the nest. Surely your child isn't going to magically become safe, unattractive or responsible just because they have legally became an adult? So why not allow them to do things as they show they are emotionally capable no matter what age they are? At least this way you have more control as a parent to teach. It's not that you can't learn later on but why would you want to leave all these learning experiences until later on?

Who has said that they wanted to completely shelter their children? :confused:

 

I think you are over-generalizing, and I'm not sure why these topics always turn into "helicopter parent vs free-range parent," instead of recognizing that most parents probably fall somewhere in the middle of those two extremes.

[Excelsior! Academy]

Good point about the urban/rural comment. 

 

We live in the suburbs.  There is literally no way to get around without a car.  My children can bike around the neighborhood, but can not go much further. Public transportation does not come near us, but if it did I cannot imagine putting a young unsupervised child on it.  Surprisingly, I have let more than one child fly across country with layovers without batting an eye. 

 

When we travel to dh's family's town it is completely different.  We even joke it is its own country.  The kids can be free range.  The town is so tiny there are no stop lights and traffic rules are really more like guidelines.  Since it is so rural many children learn to drive (legally on private land) at a very early age. 

 

I can't speak for urban or inner city as I have no experience there, but between the suburban areas and small towns I have experienced, where you live can greatly affect your parenting style.

[Livelovelearn]

How does not allowing one's child to stay alone in a hotel equate to not letting them experience anything new until they move out? Really that is a stretch don't you think? It's one particular piddly issue. I think we stay in a hotel about once every 10 years so it hardly even comes up.

No, if this is your only restrictions or one of a few then it is different. But to constantly hand-hold?

[swellmomma]

No, if this is your only restrictions or one of a few then it is different. But to constantly hand-hold?

But I did not get the impression that anyone who replied no in that thread were indicating that they constantly hand hold.  They simply answered the question they were asked...would they leave their kids alone, period.  It never asked if they ever let their kids out of their sight.

[Livelovelearn]

Maybe I misinterpreted the OP. To ask 'how does your child cope because they've never been left in a hotel alone?'just seemed silly to me.

[swellmomma]

Maybe I misinterpreted the OP. To ask 'how does your child cope because they've never been left in a hotel alone?'just seemed silly to me.

That I agree with, it is beyond silly.  I am just surprised at the number of people who have assumed that because someone would not leave their child alone in a hotel room suddenly they are over protective, never let them out of their sight, hand holding zealots who are failing their kids.  That is an extreme reach and not at all what I was seeing from those who actually said they would not do so.  Just because someone is not comfortable with a particular situation does not mean they are living in fear of the outside world.

[LibraryLover]

I think people will be fine even if they are not left in the room while their parents have dinner and a drink in the hotel restaurant.  ;)  However, experiences with independence helps build confidence, and also reduces anxiety once you are navigating new waters as an older teen/young adult.

[Lara in Colo]

The biggest restriction to the growth of our children is the media induced fear given to parents and the reaction of said parents to legislate all fearful things away--along with all rights and freedoms.

[Jane in NC]

I think people will be fine even if they are not left in the room while their parents have dinner and a drink in the hotel restaurant.  ;)  However, experiences with independence helps build confidence, and also reduces anxiety once you are navigating new waters as an older teen/young adult.

 

And I think the greater point is that all of us have different circumstances.  Some of us have spouses who travel for business and we are in a position where we can accompany them.  It is part of the reason our kids grew up traveling.  I live in a place where it is easy to bike and safe to walk.  My kid was out biking, rollerblading, etc. independently from an early age.  Because we live in a small town, I make a point of traveling to cities for cultural opportunities.  While there, I made sure my son knew how mass transit work.  Some people hate cities and do anything to avoid them.  They would rather spend their vacation on horseback. 

 

Whether a kid is hiking on the Appalachian Trail or on a university campus for a summer camp, experiences out of the norm of everyday life allow him to grow, build confidence and become a good decision maker.  The point is not to leave your kid in a hotel room or in the middle of the wilderness from which he must find his way back.  The point is to allow him to participate in life and learn how we keep ourselves safe while benefiting from the larger world.

[Sun]

Maybe the difference between molesting a 10-year-old in a restroom vs molesting an 18-year-old. Size, strength, judgment. Whether or not you *appear* to be a target to a predator.

 

Ages 10 and below my boys never went to a public restroom without an adult for the reasons stated above. Between ages 10 and 14 they always had to go *together* or with another child. (buddy system) Now I have a high schooler and he can go alone.

 

I don't think an incremental approach means a climate of fear. I buckle up each day out of fear of what would happen if I got in an accident and got bounced around the interior of my car or ejected if I didn't have my seatbelt on. Then I don't give it another thought. So I don't equate taking reasonable precautions with *climate of fear."

 

 

I don't disagree with an incremental approach. I doubt that any person posting here that they'd leave kids alone in a hotel room doesn't believe in an incremental approach. What I don't understand is why someone would (as some people commented either here or in the hotel room thread) refuse to let even a teenager stay in a hotel room alone or to do various other things unsupervised but then think that it's easy for their kids to learn those skills at 18. To me, that is the exact opposite of an incremental approach. For me, an incremental approach is allowing kids gradually increasing independence and responsibility, including things like staying home alone (or in a hotel room) as they are ready. My approach is incremental because I didn't suddenly abandon my child at home for hours on end; instead, we started small with  5-minute trips to the neighbor's house, then 15-minute trips to the store, then 30-minute trips away, and so on.

 

Just read an interesting one about a woman who was attacked in her hotel room. Seems an employee of the hotel hid in her room, so when she returned from (wherever) he was able to attack. I understand this is statistically unlikely. But I guess I always imagined hotel attacks coming from OUTSIDE the room, you know, someone knocking, or trying to get in if the safety latch wasn't on. Didn't occur to me to check the room UPON returning.

 

This means it's probably NOT safe to just send your teen/pre-teen "back to the room" unless they're going in pairs, or a parent comes along to check it out. I hadn't really given that much thought before reading the article.

 

As a parent, I can't really comfort myself with the thought that, "gee, THAT was statistically unlikely" if it's a precaution I could've reasonably taken. i.e. Perhaps it wouldn't be as convenient for me to go up to the room with my teen and make sure everything's okay before going off to do whatever, but there's no reason I couldn't do it. And there's no added *skill* the teen is gaining by me NOT taking that precaution. (unless they get to try out any self defense skills, of course)

 

 

 

That's not what it means at all! Some incidents make the news simply because they are freak accidents or unusual situations.

 

Several years ago, a woman was killed in a nearby community when a man running from the police broke into her house and shot her. Should I, an adult, not stay home alone? That would seem crazy, right? But isn't that what you're doing, though, by taking the case of one woman who was attacked in her hotel room in that manner and using that case to decide that it's unsafe to send your teen back to the room? For that matter, if someone is lying in wait in your room, why would it help for you to be there or for there to be two kids or teens?

[SKL]

I dunno.  I would let an older teen stay in the room no problem, but frankly when I go anywhere on vacation I don't go there to sit in the hotel.  We just go there to sleep.  It's all about the place we are going to.  So I can't fathom a reason to have my kid sitting in the hotel room.  Doing what?  Sounds really boring.  That is how I think about that situation. 

 

In my case, I've done it a couple of times when I've gone to attend a seminar at an out-of-town hotel that requires an overnight stay.  I did it on our cruise this winter because they didn't want to leave their TV show or whatever.  Of course I review all the safety rules etc. and I know they can be trusted to keep their actions within a safe range.  I put the "do not disturb" sign outside the door so the staff doesn't come in and find them there.

[LibraryLover]

I dunno.  I would let an older teen stay in the room no problem, but frankly when I go anywhere on vacation I don't go there to sit in the hotel.  We just go there to sleep.  It's all about the place we are going to.  So I can't fathom a reason to have my kid sitting in the hotel room.  Doing what?  Sounds really boring.  That is how I think about that situation. 

 

What? lol  I have been known to sleep in and then watch cable -with room service. Not boring. Decadent.  They will even bring up a Bloody Mary with your avocado and omelette. :)

 

Yep, that is me, sometimes not leaving my room until around 1. Maybe latter if there is a balcony overlooking pretty water.

[LibraryLover]

Nah.  We tend to get the cheapest hotel we can find because we literally only want to sleep there for a few hours.  Stuff like that just does not interest me.  I like to go go go when I'm on vacation.  But you figure I'm a home body otherwise so it's something different for me. 

 

This is my reward for putting up with dh's travel. Hotel points, and rooms we don't pay for ourselves.  I've finally learned to roll with it.  As a family we are frugal, but if the company is booking a hotel for a conference or business?  I make it work for me. ;) lol

[LibraryLover]

That makes sense for that situation.  I've never been in that particular situation.

 

Yes. We all have different experiences. Which is why some are more comfortable than others in various situations. I don't think anything is without some sort of risk. I detest driving. It's probably the most dangerous thing I do. I have to manage my personal concerns there so I can drive at all.  Driving just seems *crazy* to me. lol