Tiramisu Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I think I have a younger clone of your dd. Let me know if you figure out a name for it. ...She has her own bathroom she has the master bedroom In the house. I gave it to the girls because my youngest still has her kitchen stuff and baby doll beds and such so they needed the bigger room but my little one barely goes in there now because the older one just yells at her. She sleeps in my room with me because the older one won't let her leave the light on at night and stuff. I know this doesn't help you but we are in nearly the exact situation, just not the master bedroom part. Youngest dd is with us at night because my other dd yells at her for the same type of thing, leaving the light on for a bit to read before bed, touching her stuff, etc. It's not right, and we are still trying to deal with it, including how to figure out how much of this is in dd's control since her actions seem very motivated by anxiety. I cannot believe her friend is wearing my stuff and if I say something my oldest will have a meltdown and then freak that I made a fool of her in front of her friends. My dd is younger, 11, but I can tell you what I did when something a tiny bit similar happened here recently. A snow storm was predicted so I went out to buy some essentials, including cereal and milk. The rule in our house is that you can only have cereal for breakfast because this dd would only eat cereal and not real food if she could and not leave any for the other kids' breakfasts. We've gone through this again and again and again, as in almost daily reminders. But later in the afternoon, I found dd and her two friends at the table with two boxes of cereal open and one of them was half empty. I really lost it in front of her friends. I was frustrated but I also wasn't sure when I could get to the store again and I had to make sure I had breakfast. I made sure the other girls knew it wasn't their fault, but I otherwise fairly well embarrassed dd, because I know if anything motivates her it's keeping her good image in front of people outside the family. She's very anxious about that. I don't know if the lesson will stick, because things simply don't with dd, but I can bet you her friends will never eat cereal in the afternoon in our house again. My oldest is home from college and left her present of shower gel in the shower. It was nearly full and now it's nearly empty because dd took one shower. I have given my other girls shower caddies so they can make sure they have shampoo and toothpaste when they need it. She just seems completely oblivious to other people's feelings. Not to whine about it, but just letting you know, you are not the only one going through this. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 I don't know if her dad would take her to be honest. He may want to on Monday then turn around on Tuesday and have 50 different reasons why it won't work and all of them will be my fault. I don't really mind the girls having the bigger bedroom since like I said the younger still has all that kitchen stuff with the little table and everything. I think she knows I am ready to explode. My youngers friend came over and she tried to push them into the living room to play so I turned the tables NICELY I said you have had the bedroom to yourself and your buddy for two days it is her turn now. You can stay in here or you can watch TV in the living room. Then I told her on second thought she can go ahead and catch up on all the chores she has ignored for two days. She has set chores she does everyday. We all help here no one is allowed to slack off. I knew her friend was here so I was trying to be kind well that is over now. She tried to say she would do them later so I turned off the TV and said please do them now so you can enjoy some time with your friend and walked away. I don't think she has whined yet because he hasn't called, so I have decided if he does I am just gonna let it go to voicemail. Her teachers tell me what a joy she is. She helps out a lot with the younger kids she just has these moments where the word respect isn't part of our relationship. He also has reminded her regularly if I hadn't had to have that baby she would still be the only girl, she would still have her own room etc etc. He has always played the kids against each other and allowed them to come between us. We never should have had children. He told them on this visit he was sorry he had 4 kids. The older is his girl she is treated wayyyyy better. Yes they all have realized and when they do he will say things like if you don't like how I am I won't come see you anymore, I won't buy you birthday or Christmas stuff like that. I know he has way more money than he lets on. His boss is his best friend and I know he lies about how much he makes but I can't prove it. They are in there right now we just had dinner she started to complain and even her friend told her to stop. Said she was lucky she had a mom who would cook dinner. It is time to take back my house I think and my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 He also has reminded her regularly if I hadn't had to have that baby she would still be the only girl, she would still have her own room etc etc. He has always played the kids against each other and allowed them to come between us. We never should have had children. He told them on this visit he was sorry he had 4 kids. The older is his girl she is treated wayyyyy better. Yes they all have realized and when they do he will say things like if you don't like how I am I won't come see you anymore, I won't buy you birthday or Christmas stuff like that. I know he has way more money than he lets on. His boss is his best friend and I know he lies about how much he makes but I can't prove it. They are in there right now we just had dinner she started to complain and even her friend told her to stop. Said she was lucky she had a mom who would cook dinner. It is time to take back my house I think and my life. Yes, take back your life. You ex is a sick, sick man. I know you know this already. But he is not normal AT ALL. Probably someone here can put a better label on it. I'm sorry to say so, but I think there may be some genetic wonkiness (mental health condition) in your ex that could in part explain the bizarre way he's acting and the things he says. It sounds like more than just a simple behavioral issue. When you've lived with and dealt with someone like this for years, you have a lot of recovery to do. Get on it. You are a good woman. Get counselling to help get out from under the carp he's dumped on you and find a positive way to deal with your dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I am so sorry it's so hard. Really, truly. I see clearly why you feel trapped. I find myself cycling back to getting counseling. This isn't just one habit or one set of behaviors. Rather, it is a pattern of relating to each other, and there are many layers. Think of the counselor as someone who can prescribe certain behaviors (like not "telling on" you to your ex--that's totally inappropriate) and then give some accountability for following through with the new behaviors. When you look for a counselor, specifically try to find someone who is comfortable acting as a behavioral coach. In this case, talking about feelings will not address the problem. The therapist will naturally want to get to the feelings that underlie the behavior, but the therapist must also prescribe specific behaviors for all of you to work on. You should expect the therapist to talk to all of you individually, and all of you as a group. DO NOT involve your ex with the therapy. This is about how those of you who live in the house relate to each other. He has no place in your home and should not be influencing how it is set up. I really hope you find the strength to do this. I hear the desperation in your voice. A good therapist and a commitment to incremental changes could turn this around. It will be well worth it. Right now you and your dd dislike each other intensely (though I also hear the love in your voice--I really do). Also your daughters dislike each other. You have the rest of your lives together--it is well worth learning how to like and enjoy each other. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevergiveup Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Have a bunch of your friends over. Give them each an outfit of your daughter's to wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I cannot believe her friend is wearing my stuff and if I say something my oldest will have a meltdown and then freak that I made a fool of her in front of her friends. So what?????? Seriously, you need to take back control. Tell her friend, politely, of course, "I'm terribly sorry but Princess had no right to allow you to wear that t-shirt. It isn't hers. I would really like you to remove it. Thank you." If she has a melt-down, hissy fit, it's a reflection of her - not you. Stop trying to protect her from the harsh realities of life. If her friend sees her melt-down because you politely ask her to remove a shirt her friend is not going to hold you accountable. You're allowing her potential bad behavior (I'm gonna' make a scene. I'm gonna' tell daddy........) to influence your behavior. You have a difficult situation but I think you really need to look at how to implement the hard solutions rather than find a reason to dismiss the hard solutions. Ex- You said you can't put a lock on the door because someone previously glued a portion. Okay, get a handyman to drill out the glued area or buy and hang a new door. Rented house? Okay, ask the landlord. Most aren't ogres and interior doors aren't as expensive as all the things that are being destroyed.. :grouphug: s. It sounds really tense at you house. I hope you find a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 If you'd do "anything" to avoid being shouted at by you ex... Have you considered hanging up the phone? You don't have to talk to him if you don't want to. His bully behaviour earned him a divorce. It's about time you took away his verbal punching bag too. You own that phone! Do what you want with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I'm going to say "therapy" one more time. You sound frightened and frozen by other people's outbursts. It doesn't have to be that way. You aren't the first person to have those symptoms. Those pro's actually know how to help. That's why it's their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I would lock it all up. If the issue is that it is a rental, buy your own door and swap them out to put in a door lock. Get a locking cabinet for the school supplies. Move dd into the smaller bedroom and take back the larger one. Make her pay for anything she takes and ruins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 We sort of had a small talk when she caught me crying in my bedroom tonight. She ran in to tell me dinner was ready her and her friend cooked tonight. She asked me why I was crying and without thinking I said I am tired of hating being your mom. Worse thing in the world to pop outta my mouth I know. She started to cry I told her I didn't hate her just the way things have gotten because it wasn't always like this. My ex and I have been apart together apart together forever until 4 years ago when I finally said enough. Rarely did we live together so in a way it has always been me and those kids. Always just us. The last almost 3 years we did live together and it was terrible. The stuff nightmares are made of. She said it was Christmas she missed her room, she missed her friends she missed her church. The friends she had she won't even talk to now. The room she has is much nicer and bigger she just has to share it and towards the end she wouldn't even go to church anymore. Hopefully we can talk more after her friend leaves. She also said she thinks I hate her cause she wanted to go to high school. This is her third year and the first I am hearing about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzybluecheese Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 We sort of had a small talk when she caught me crying in my bedroom tonight. She ran in to tell me dinner was ready her and her friend cooked tonight. She asked me why I was crying and without thinking I said I am tired of hating being your mom. Worse thing in the world to pop outta my mouth I know. She started to cry I told her I didn't hate her just the way things have gotten because it wasn't always like this. My ex and I have been apart together apart together forever until 4 years ago when I finally said enough. Rarely did we live together so in a way it has always been me and those kids. Always just us. The last almost 3 years we did live together and it was terrible. The stuff nightmares are made of. She said it was Christmas she missed her room, she missed her friends she missed her church. The friends she had she won't even talk to now. The room she has is much nicer and bigger she just has to share it and towards the end she wouldn't even go to church anymore. Hopefully we can talk more after her friend leaves. She also said she thinks I hate her cause she wanted to go to high school. This is her third year and the first I am hearing about it Maybe she just needs more one on one attention. Maybe a little more conversation like this one will help fill whatever void she's trying to fill with all these things. You've had a rough day today. I'm glad she made dinner for you all. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 We sort of had a small talk when she caught me crying in my bedroom tonight. She ran in to tell me dinner was ready her and her friend cooked tonight. She asked me why I was crying and without thinking I said I am tired of hating being your mom. Worse thing in the world to pop outta my mouth I know. She started to cry I told her I didn't hate her just the way things have gotten because it wasn't always like this. My ex and I have been apart together apart together forever until 4 years ago when I finally said enough. Rarely did we live together so in a way it has always been me and those kids. Always just us. The last almost 3 years we did live together and it was terrible. The stuff nightmares are made of. She said it was Christmas she missed her room, she missed her friends she missed her church. The friends she had she won't even talk to now. The room she has is much nicer and bigger she just has to share it and towards the end she wouldn't even go to church anymore. Hopefully we can talk more after her friend leaves. She also said she thinks I hate her cause she wanted to go to high school. This is her third year and the first I am hearing about it It sounds like you opened the door for a more productive conversation. Don't let it go. Teens are hard, even good ones are hard. Selfish ex husband who acts the way yours does makes it worse, but teens push buttons no matter what. Find some time for you, enforce the rules, make her pay (monetarily) for anything she destroys, and don't give in. Mostly, just breathe... slow deep breathes, and take it one minute at a time. Oh, and it's okay to embarrass them. Sometimes it's even fun. It let's them know you aren't afraid of them, and you aren't going to back down. Hugs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 don't feel bad you told her how you really feel. she's a big girl, and it's about time she learned her how behavior affects other people. the real world won't give a hoot if she throws a tantrum over not getting her way. bosses will just fire her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 And now is when you say, "And I've honestly been trying my backside off to do this right, and something is just not working. I think we should hire someone to help us learn to be a healthy family before you are all grown up and it's too late." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think I am going to look into some counseling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Were she my child, she would come home from school one day to find all her possessions in boxes (and new bunk beds) in your old room and a lock on the master bedroom. ETA: But that's only a start. Echoing suggestions for counseling. This, exactly. No words, no discussion. Sounds like you've been there, done that, with no results and no respect from her. I sure wouldn't worry about calling her out in front of her friend, either. Make it known you know it's the friend's fault. Other than that, it sounds like there's a whole lot more going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I get the being just utterly exhausted in spirit. It's a new year for you and your dd, wishing you peace and more good conversations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 You know, I think I know what you're feeling. My ex is a bully and a tantrum-thrower. My mother is the same. I spent the majority of my life trying to keep people from having melt-downs, and that meant I'd do or say whatever to shut them up keep the peace. But it's not peace. It's worse. No one should walk on eggshells in their own home. I'm with everyone who has said to take back your power. You can do it; I surely did. You do it a step at a time. One situation at a time. And with each tiny victory, you gain more power and more control of your life. Princess takes something that's not hers? Demand it back. If she has a fit, calmly say, "I'm not interested in being an audience to such drama" and turn and walk away. When she has no one to play to, her fit is wasted and she realizes she looks like an ass. This may take some time, but it will work. Also, take back your master bedroom. You're the mother, you're the adult, you're the master of the home. When Princess has her own home, she can have the master; not a nanosecond sooner. I have a dd who'll be 16 next month. I find at this age, I'm frequently reminding her that I am a human being, too. I have needs, I have goals to accomplish and I'm not here as her personal ATM, taxi-driver or peer. I'm the MOM, the adult in the house who earns the $$ and pays the bills and btw, I also make the rules. She will show respect and courtesy or she will lose out on whatever it is she thinks she's entitled to. Just right now, she's in the school room pouting because I refused to drop what I was doing, hand over $10 and drive her to a restaurant to meet friends for dinner. She stormed into the bathroom and had a boozy-hoozy. She spent a good 30 minutes in there before I demanded she vacate the only bathroom in the house. She then went into the school room, where she's been ever since. Who cares? Let her stew in her self-pity that she has such a mean mom. Next time, she can plan better. If she's broke and needs $$, she can plan ahead to do some chores to earn it. If she needs a ride, ask me ahead of time. I don't do last minute. I don't do entitled. I certainly don't do demands from a child. As for her father, he's pretty much learned by now to stay calm with me. When he'd start his non-sensical rants, I'd repeat back to him, matter-of-factly, what he'd just said. He found out pretty fast how idiotic he sounded and for the most part, he's stopped. Point is, you can take your power back. You don't have to feel helpless and walked-all-over. For me, because of the counseling options and what (and who) my insurance would cover, I bailed on the counseling and just got to the point where I was DONE with it and I fought back myself. That's not to say counseling isn't valuable; it is. But the therapists I had to choose from were...awful. Good luck to you. This is a mess right now, but with some work, it doesn't have to stay this way. Hang in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod's mum Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I used to repeat to myself that the only thing worse than living with a teenager is being one. My eldest did lose bedroom priveliges for a while and had a camp bed in the hall that she/we had to pack up each morning. I also bowed to advice and let/sent her to live with her dad for a few months. She did come back calmer but it took a much bigger toll on her than she could afford. Good luck finding the right councellor. We had many wrong ones. But her father and the hospital were involved too. Keep it to your household. She, you and your other children and worth the fight. The ongoing, seemingly never-ending fight. Breathe Breathe This too shall pass and at some point you will realise your worth. You are worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I grew up in a family with lots of drama and unhealthy ways of relating. my mother was a very weak woman, and wasn't able to "be the adult". I remember once throwing a tantrum about not getting my way. it was as much about letting off steam (which I'd never learned how to do in an appropriate manner.) as disappointment at not getting what I wanted. I was *relieved* my mother actually cared enough to say no. usually, she said yes or offered no opinion. everything she did conveyed a message of not giving a hoot about anything I did. then, instead of telling me to go have the fit in my room because she was tired of listening (which is what I *have* done with my kids) - she caved. It lowered her in my eyes. my adult kids have repeatedly told me they know where I stand because I don't bluff, and I didn't tolerate drama. they appreciated that. they have thanked me for that. You can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Yes because there are other things she will take too. Scissors, art supplies, towels that she ruins the list goes on and on. Yes she has a ton of her own stuff as well. I gave her all kinds of towels that she has left on her floor that the rabbit has chewed up. Every year around tax time when I get part of my exes check I buy the homeschool kids all their stuff I learned real quick that if I don't buy stuff for her too she whines to her dad that I am being unfair. Her stuff will sit in her room all nice and pretty and she will ruin the rest that is in the art cabinet for the homeschooled kids. Her excuses are always she couldn't find her stuff or she didn't have anymore of it etc. She has her own bathroom she has the master bedroom In the house. I gave it to the girls because my youngest still has her kitchen stuff and baby doll beds and such so they needed the bigger room but my little one barely goes in there now because the older one just yells at her. She sleeps in my room with me because the older one won't let her leave the light on at night and stuff. I cannot believe her friend is wearing my stuff and if I say something my oldest will have a meltdown and then freak that I made a fool of her in front of her friends. Ummm. why is that a problem? She's 16 and stealing your stuff and giving it to her friends. If she doesn't learn now, when will she learn - when the cops take her in? If nagging doesn't work perhaps embarrassment will. Honestly, I give you permission to SAY something - that is YOUR new shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 These two things. I have an email (not chat, not text) account that my ex is to contact me through. He is not to call me. He is not to text me. Email allows me to have a paper trail if needed. Why do you have to talk to your ex?? I'd call my lawyer and let ex know that you will only communicate through approved channels. Take back your power!! If you'd do "anything" to avoid being shouted at by you ex... Have you considered hanging up the phone? You don't have to talk to him if you don't want to. His bully behaviour earned him a divorce. It's about time you took away his verbal punching bag too. You own that phone! Do what you want with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I know this is a very complicated issue, but there's still something that's bothering me, even if it might be too simplistic. You keep mentioning that your DD has her own private stuff, like towels, supplies etc, but keeps stealing yours. Question: does she enjoy having her own stuff? Does she want it? Or does she see it as a form of segregation? As in, here's your stuff, here's your room, stay away from the rest of us? Maybe I'm wrong, but I sense quite a lot of resentment towards her in your posts. Does she like being the oldest and grown up? It is common to assume that everyone loves it, but I've known of first borns who wish they were the youngest instead. My experiences come from having a first born who does not like being "grown up." Having her own things, like towels, would be an yet another stab at her--don't mingle your stuff with our stuff, kind of thing. This is assuming that you have family towels for everyone to share. If each person in your family has her own set of towels, than it's different. If you resent her because of the ex, she knows it and feels it. It is a tough situation for her. She's acting out and testing you because things are not going well for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think I am agreeing with a few others here (without having read all posts) that this seems to be an issue stemming from "ex's princess" and divorce or separation. This behavior smacks of acting out and what is usually behind such behavior is raw pain. Have you done family counseling? I think at this point this is the best route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think I am agreeing with a few others here (without having read all posts) that this seems to be an issue stemming from "ex's princess" and divorce or separation. This behavior smacks of acting out and what is usually behind such behavior is raw pain. Have you done family counseling? I think at this point this is the best route. :iagree: I don't see how taking her possessions away from her, as I saw recommended upthread, is remotely humane in this situation. For the OP to speak up, and not be afraid of melt downs, on the other hand, is not only appropriate, but needed. You are both stuck in the unhealthy dynamics, expressing your anger and frustration in your own ways. If you are afraid of your child's tantrums she knows you are weak. I don't mean to say that she is consciously manipulative to hurt you. But it is quite likely that she craves your strength. She needs you to set very clear boundaries, and yet to love her the way she is. That's tough. It is quite likely that she *needs* to melt down--she *needs* to see that he mom can handle a meltdown. OP, you said she is not an angry or violent child. But this is how her anger comes out--taking and damaging what doesn't belong to her. She needs compassion. She needs to know that you won't let her slip into unacceptable behavior. You don't have to be mean or rude--just firm. And reassure her that you love her. Always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I would write her a bill for each thing she takes. Shirt $20. How would you like to pay? Don't have the cash? I'll start adding interest. I've found that my kids are much more careful with things once they realize how much they cost. I've had boys ruin toilet paper rolls and dump out whole bottles of bubble bath. After I made them pay they were much more careful. In fact, I need to start charging for leaving clothing items and shoes outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I would write her a bill for each thing she takes. Shirt $20. How would you like to pay? Don't have the cash? I'll start adding interest. I've found that my kids are much more careful with things once they realize how much they cost. I've had boys ruin toilet paper rolls and dump out whole bottles of bubble bath. After I made them pay they were much more careful. In fact, I need to start charging for leaving clothing items and shoes outside. I would never bill my own child for the things you've described. I can't imagine charging a child for rolls of toilet paper or bubble bath. That seems incredibly extreme to me. My home isn't a store. Things sometimes get wasted or lost or broken. It's just part of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyAnn Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I replied befor reading all the responses. I am glad you are ready to do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I know this is a very complicated issue, but there's still something that's bothering me, even if it might be too simplistic. You keep mentioning that your DD has her own private stuff, like towels, supplies etc, but keeps stealing yours. Question: does she enjoy having her own stuff? Does she want it? Or does she see it as a form of segregation? As in, here's your stuff, here's your room, stay away from the rest of us? Maybe I'm wrong, but I sense quite a lot of resentment towards her in your posts. Does she like being the oldest and grown up? It is common to assume that everyone loves it, but I've known of first borns who wish they were the youngest instead. My experiences come from having a first born who does not like being "grown up." Having her own things, like towels, would be an yet another stab at her--don't mingle your stuff with our stuff, kind of thing. This is assuming that you have family towels for everyone to share. If each person in your family has her own set of towels, than it's different. If you resent her because of the ex, she knows it and feels it. It is a tough situation for her. She's acting out and testing you because things are not going well for her. When we first moved here my mom had bought us a ton of towels. She was constantly ruining them. I mean using our bath towels and wash cloths to bleach things. Leaving them lay on her floor where her rabbit would chew them up. She buys dark tshirts then bleaches designs on them. She was VERY happy not to share a bathroom with the boys anymore trust me! I constantly talked to her nicely, hey these towels are what everyone uses please don't tear them up type thing. Her response was they were just towels who cares?? So yeah I let her have the rest of the towels she had not destroyed and I bought a bunch of new ones. She is always very this is my stuff she has to have stuff etc. She adores being the oldest. She isn't pushed off in any way. When we do field trips to places she would like I take her out of school to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 There are some oldest children who never get over not being an only child. It's not something that happens in every family, but it happens. Some of what is described here seems similar to what is experienced in other families complicated with an exh/father who is using that phenomenom to his advantage. :grouphug: Keep talking to your dd, be firm about taking other people's belongings, but keep talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 First, get your shirt back. I wouldn't yell at your daughter in front of her friend, but I wouldn't worry too much about making her look like a fool. It's not your fault if her friend draws the logical conclusion based on her behavior. (I wouldn't get mad at the friend though, as long as she takes off your shirt when you tell her to. Likely she thought your DD was operating within the norm for your family.) Second, I would start taking stuff away from your daughter--starting with the master bedroom. Your younger daughter is already sleeping with you, so what do you have to lose? And maybe then you can lock your bedroom door. :-) I agree with this completely. It sounds as if your daughter feels she is the queen of the castle and she can do anything or have anything she wants. She needs to go back to a regular room and you need to take back the master bedroom and put a lock on your door, if there is not one there already. I also agree with pp about taking everything away from her and having her earn it back a bit at a time. You are clearly going to have to get tough here to make her understand what she is doing is very unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 There are some oldest children who never get over not being an only child. It's not something that happens in every family, but it happens. Some of what is described here seems similar to what is experienced in other families complicated with an exh/father who is using that phenomenom to his advantage. :grouphug: Keep talking to your dd, be firm about taking other people's belongings, but keep talking. She doesn't remember being an only child. Her brother came when she was barely a year old. But yes my ex reminds her every chance he gets that if I wouldn't have had to have all these kids.....I did it all by myself ya know!!! She don't take anyone elses stuff. Well except the art supplies but I mean personal type stuff. She asks my boys if she can borrow such and such shirts or CD's and she lets them borrow hers as well. When my younger asks her to color with her or do crafts she always asks is it OK if I color this picture in your book or use such and such. We have a ton of stuff that everyone uses paint, crayons paper all that stuff. It seems the stuff I put off limits is the stuff she takes. Even though she has her own per her request. She happily helps my elderly mom if she is asked she volunteers to make dinner. She eats what is put before her without complaint. Stuff on my desk staplers, sharpies things like that she takes into her room and either loses it or just tears it up. Leaves lids off sharpies leaves stuff in the floor it gets broken. If she wants makeup she just takes it. My clothes just takes them. She isn't violent her tantrums are just crying and badgering but it is enough to send me into the bathroom with a locked door. I talked to her just a bit more and she even said she misses her own room but does not miss living with her dad. She misses her friends but she don't like them anymore. She is sad that almost all her old friends are trouble makers now. One is pregnant. The town we lived in really was getting bad and it seems it has gotten much much worse. Another girl she knew since childhood was in trouble for touching a young boy. Personally I am glad we moved when we did. It has been a good morning so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I would never bill my own child for the things you've described. I can't imagine charging a child for rolls of toilet paper or bubble bath. That seems incredibly extreme to me. My home isn't a store. Things sometimes get wasted or lost or broken. It's just part of life. I charged my DD for the cost of replacing shared bath products she had a habit of deliberately wasting (a half bottle or more at a time) before, and it ended the problem immediately. She was warned and knew the consequence, and I followed through. It didn't happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Mousie Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It has been a good morning so far. So glad to hear it! :grouphug: I hope you get many more opportunities to talk like you did last night - briefly, but honestly. It seems to me that these "little" heart-to-hearts are going to make a big difference for both of you. It's also nice, I think, that your daughter's friend has weighed in a bit with her perspective. That, too, can be good for all of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I would never bill my own child for the things you've described. I can't imagine charging a child for rolls of toilet paper or bubble bath. That seems incredibly extreme to me. My home isn't a store. Things sometimes get wasted or lost or broken. It's just part of life. Good for you. It worked for me. I used to buy a new bottle of bubble bath or liquid soap and it would be gone in a day from a 7 year old practically dumping it down the drain. I don't have money to waste and ever since I charged him $1 it has not happened again. Kids decorating the house with a roll of tp is unacceptable, and, again, has not happened since I made them pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Good for you. It worked for me. I used to buy a new bottle of bubble bath or liquid soap and it would be gone in a day from a 7 year old practically dumping it down the drain. I don't have money to waste and ever since I charged him $1 it has not happened again. Kids decorating the house with a roll of tp is unacceptable, and, again, has not happened since I made them pay. Are you saying that simply showing your 7 yo the appropriate amount of bubble soap to use, and explaining that it was expensive and unhealthy to use too much of it, didn't work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto10blessings Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Are you saying that simply showing your 7 yo the appropriate amount of bubble soap to use, and explaining that it was expensive and unhealthy to use too much of it, didn't work? Yes, it didn't work. Kids can be destructive. It's not like he used twice as much as he should have, he would use the whole bottle. Over and over. Many bottles. Stubborn boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 When she goes to school you rearrange the rooms, install locks as needed, and make sure she only has her stuff in which ever room you stick her. Put her in the smallest room. Keep the youngest girl's bed in the master. Find a place in the living area for her doll house, etc (so you can lock the master room shut). Take the unused art supplies etc from the older girl's room and put in home school supplies. Let her then have the stuff she has wrecked. Every time she takes something not her's calmly take it right back or take some thing of her's to replace it. When she complains to her dad, make sure you calmly tell him you are concerned about her needing to learn not to take stuff - she can't go out in the world as a grown-up with that attitude or their will be major consequences. Remember - YOU are the grown-up. YOU do not chose to have your stuff stolen/broken etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Are you saying that simply showing your 7 yo the appropriate amount of bubble soap to use, and explaining that it was expensive and unhealthy to use too much of it, didn't work? Yes, it didn't work. Kids can be destructive. It's not like he used twice as much as he should have, he would use the whole bottle. Over and over. Many bottles. Stubborn boy. It didn't work at my house either, though it was shampoo not bubble bath. I made ds then 7 use part of his money he earned from doing extra chores to go buy his own shampoo to replace it since I got tired of buying a new bottle every week. He learned how much shampoo costs, how to comparison shop, and that I was serious about him only using a small palmful each time. It seemed a better solution than invading his privacy by directly supervising his showers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Are you saying that simply showing your 7 yo the appropriate amount of bubble soap to use, and explaining that it was expensive and unhealthy to use too much of it, didn't work? Exactly. It didn't work. The lesson didn't stick until my DD learned from experience that bath products aren't cheap and she had to pay to replace what she had wasted herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Perhaps we need a spin off, since its not directly relevant, but... After providing my children with a generous allowance, I also do charge them money for loss, waste and breakage. After all, if its normal that things get wasted/lost/broken, it's also normal to replace them, which costs money. (Both of my kids have bought themselves a new pair of mittens so far this winter.) OP, in your case, it's about ownership and boundaries -- she's not just wasting/ruining things that she is supposed to be freely (responsibly) using. I don't think this solution is relevant, and it would probably distract from the real focus of the issues between you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I cannot believe her friend is wearing my stuff and if I say something my oldest will have a meltdown and then freak that I made a fool of her in front of her friends. so what if she has a meltdown, she is the one embarrassing herself! I would immediately tell the friend to please change and return your property to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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